USGA states that Dustin Johnson is a Liar

[JoMar]

OK, maybe not in so many words but the game used to be a game of honor and honesty. If the player knows they made a mistake they call it on themselves. Justin clearly stated he did not touch the ball and make it move. The Fox close up clearly showed he did not touch the ball and make it move (and there is only a one camera shot) yet the USGA basically told him that yeah, I know what you told us but we don't believe you.....you made the ball move. My protest will be simple, I will not renew my USGA membership. The amount of money it will save will get me a breakfast at Darrel's.....:)

[DeanFL]

Never had a USGA membership, but... For the first time ever we watched an entire golf last-round on TV. I did DVR the first few hours then ffwrded thru commercials and little action. That said, when the DJ matter came up on, I believe the 5th hole, it was quite clear to me after all the Fox TV slo-mos etc that it was nearly impossible for the ball to rotate back 15 degrees or so after he soled the club lightly beside the ball (no touch) and simply moved the putter behind what seemed to be an inch or so - but never grounded the head. Yes you're right - the video was not 100% definitive (either way) and at that point take the pro's word.

And how the officials handled it from their was atrocious. They and the USGA lucked out that DJ won it outright. Good for him - VERY BAD for them - could have been a very tainted ending.

[Challenger]

Never had a USGA membership, but... For the first time ever we watched an entire golf last-round on TV. I did DVR the first few hours then ffwrded thru commercials and little action. That said, when the DJ matter came up on, I believe the 5th hole, it was quite clear to me after all the Fox TV slo-mos etc that it was nearly impossible for the ball to rotate back 15 degrees or so after he soled the club lightly beside the ball (no touch) and simply moved the putter behind what seemed to be an inch or so - but never grounded the head. Yes you're right - the video was not 100% definitive (either way) and at that point take the pro's word.

And how the officials handled it from their was atrocious. They and the USGA lucked out that DJ won it outright. Good for him - VERY BAD for them - could have been a very tainted ending.

amateur hour for USGA officials. Handled very badly

[debow]

amateur hour for USGA officials. Handled very badly

The USGA should embarrassed on how they handled this situation.

[ColdNoMore]

It was definitely a crazy tournament!

While I don't think DJ caused the movement (which looked like one dimple length), I also see the USGA's quandary.

The way the wording is, that if you can't determine something else had moved the ball then by default you are deemed to have caused it whether you've 'grounded' your club or not.

In all honesty, it is entirely possible that when he took his practice strokes (very close to the ball) he may have created enough air turbulence to make a ball that was just sitting precariously on a tuft of small grass (too small to see) to move ever-so-slightly a dimple length.

Although I'm no huge DJ fan and I don't think he's the sharpest knife in the drawer, the way the USGA handled the whole thing was pure amateurish at best.

Telling him 7 holes later that he "might" be assessed a 1 stroke penalty (if a rules official hadn't told him to play it, it would have been two strokes) would have gotten into the head of ANY golfer.

Well, almost any. :p

This is where I actually think of all the top players, having this happen to DJ was probably fortunate for the USGA. I say this because of my earlier comment that he's not all that bright and it probably didn't bother him that much, because he was focusing on each shot and he didn't have time (or the capacity) to think about more than one thing at a time.

Now if it had happened to that whiny little brat Bubba, we may have witnessed the first absolute and total meltdown of a golfer live on television. :D

But of all the golfers who have had to bear adversity and still keep plugging, DJ is at the top of my list. From grounding in a bunker that he didn't realize was a bunker in the PGA at Whistling Straights, to three putting from 12 feet in last years U.S. Open at Chambers Bay...this dude has had more travails than any other three players combined that I can think of.

So in the end, I was off my chair screaming "YES" when he birdied the last hole and made it all moot.

If it were me, I would have waited for the camera's to be around, find the nearest USGA official and told them to "stick the one stroke penalty up your azz!" :1rotfl:

So here's to you DJ, you've more than earned it! :eclipsee_gold_cup:

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

This is the second screw up buy the USGA at Oakmont. In 1994 the, then president of the USGA, Dr Trey Holland stole the Open championship from Loren Roberts by making a bad mistake on a ruling that enabled Ernie Els to stay in the playoff.

Today's ruling was an absolute travesty. In effect that are asking the player to prove a negative. Have these people ever played golf? Have they never seen a ball at rest move on it's own? I was just waiting for them to disqualify Johnson for signing an incorrect scorecard.
Telling him 7 holes later that he "might" be assessed a 1 stroke penalty (if a rules official hadn't told him to play it, it would have been two strokes) would have gotten into the head of ANY golfer.
Technically by their own definitions and rules, he should have been assessed two additional strokes. The referee told him to play the ball, but according to the USGA, Johnson gave the referee false information.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

it was nearly impossible for the ball to rotate back 15 degrees or so after he soled the club lightly beside the ball (no touch) and simply moved the putter behind what seemed to be an inch or so - but never grounded the head. Yes you're right - the video was not 100% definitive (either way) and at that point take the pro's word.

I think that the video was 100% definitive. There is no way a club behind the ball and never touching the ball or the ground behind it could make a ball rotate backward.

What they're trying to say is that the ball move as a result of him soling the club next to it while making practice strokes. I'd like to understand the physics involved that can show that an object placed to the side of a ball can make the ball move backward several seconds after the object is removed.

I think that it was obvious to everyone except these two idiots that he did nothing to make the ball move.

[JGVillages]

The USGA has allowed ball manufacturers to construct balls that fly so far now that it seems they can now move al by themselves! Seriously it seems that when the USGA cannot determine who or what caused the ball to move, the player is guilty. If DJ actually touched the ball it would not have moved backwards as the video illustrated. More outside influences (i.e. Wind, grass, etc) can influence the ball than the player when obviously he does not touch the ball. In this case he was guilty until proven innocent. This rule needs more review. Also with all the technology available they must find a way to make a ruling within a few minutes of the supposed infraction to give all competitors an opportunity to accurately strategize the completion of their rounds.

[alemorkam]

Players call penalties on themselves for things no one else sees. Now that this has happened to Dustin I can see players being more cautious about saying anything when this happens. It is supposed to be a game of honor and they took that away from Dustin. They more or less called him a liar as he said, and is playing partner said, he did NOT cause the ball to move.

[outlaw]

I only saw the one video that I assumed was what the officials looked at. It did seem to me that DJ's club was perilously close to the ball. If fact, based on the video I saw, it would be impossible, at least to me, to tell if his club did or did not touch the ball. The only mistake the officials made, imho, was to not immediately assess a penalty stroke after viewing the video. It used to be that if you grounded your club, and then the ball moved, you were assessed a penalty stroke (if I remember correctly). It didn't matter what caused the ball to move. I could be wrong about this, but I think I read that Jack Nicklaus did not ground his putter at address for this very reason. Let me know if I am wrong about the rules or Jack.

[outlaw]

Players call penalties on themselves for things no one else sees. Now that this has happened to Dustin I can see players being more cautious about saying anything when this happens. It is supposed to be a game of honor and they took that away from Dustin. They more or less called him a liar as he said, and is playing partner said, he did NOT cause the ball to move.

Isn't there a current tour player that had a sketchy college (Missouri?) career for cheating? I remember some controversy regarding Tiger cheating (not including on his wife). I think the honor is pretty much history since Judge Smails was caught improving his lie on video.

[dewilson58]

Maybe the difference in temperatures between the ball and the putter head caused a transfer of heat, pulling the ball towards the putter head.

Maybe Elvis is still alive.

[biker1]

The only real issue I see is that the USGA decided to overrule the official on site after he said there was no rules violation. They should not, in my opinion, be going to instant replay. Be that as it may, when I looked the the slo-mo, DJ appeared to have grounded his club beside the ball (not behind it) before the ball moved. This is what I believe the rules officials were focused on. Given that they apparently decided to use instant replay, they probably felt they had no choice but to impose the penalty since his club appeared to touch the ground and there were no other forces involved (such as high winds, which a rule change was put in place to account for) to cause the ball to move.

Players call penalties on themselves for things no one else sees. Now that this has happened to Dustin I can see players being more cautious about saying anything when this happens. It is supposed to be a game of honor and they took that away from Dustin. They more or less called him a liar as he said, and is playing partner said, he did NOT cause the ball to move.

[Marathon Man]

The only real issue I see is that the USGA decided to overrule the official on site after he said there was no rules violation. They should not, in my opinion, be going to instant replay. Be that as it may, when I looked the the slo-mo, DJ appeared to have grounded his club beside the ball (not behind it) before the ball moved. This is what I believe the rules officials were focused on. Given that they apparently decided to use instant replay, they probably felt they had no choice but to impose the penalty since his club appeared to touch the ground and there were no other forces involved (such as high winds, which a rule change was put in place to account for) to cause the ball to move.

PGA officials have been using replay to call penalties for a couple of years now. It is simply a matter of the replay providing information that the on site official did not have at the time of the original call. Secondly, no one called him a liar. They simply did not agree with his assessment that nothing he did could have caused the ball to move. I am on the side that his final grounding of the club beside the ball caused the movement - or more likely his lifting of the club in a slightly backward motion move the grass just enough. Contact with the ball is not required to cause movement.

It is a shame that this was handled so poorly. The call should have been made as soon as the replay was reviewed, rather than creating a dark cloud.

Never the less, it was great to see him finally win.

[dewilson58]

PGA officials have been using replay to call penalties for a couple of years now. It is simply a matter of the replay providing information that the on site official did not have at the time of the original call. Secondly, no one called him a liar. They simply did not agree with his assessment that nothing he did could have caused the ball to move. I am on the side that his final grounding of the club beside the ball caused the movement - or more likely his lifting of the club in a slightly backward motion move the grass just enough. Contact with the ball is not required to cause movement.

It is a shame that this was handled so poorly. The call should have been made as soon as the replay was reviewed, rather than creating a dark cloud.

Never the less, it was great to see him finally win.


:BigApplause:

[golow]

Those USGA zealots could have made partial amends by NOT assessing the penalty after the match was over, but they didn’t even have the sense to do that.
When the idiots were talking to Brandel and crew after the match, idiot #2 used the term “impact” to describe the very light grounding of Dustin’s putter during his practice stroke. He was clearly trying to over exaggerate in an effort to justify the nonsense.
When Brandel countered that he had never in his life seen a ball move due to a player doing what Dustin had done during his practice stroke, neither of the idiots had a response. At least at that point they had the sense to not continue to embarrass themselves.

[outlaw]

PGA officials have been using replay to call penalties for a couple of years now. It is simply a matter of the replay providing information that the on site official did not have at the time of the original call. Secondly, no one called him a liar. They simply did not agree with his assessment that nothing he did could have caused the ball to move. I am on the side that his final grounding of the club beside the ball caused the movement - or more likely his lifting of the club in a slightly backward motion move the grass just enough. Contact with the ball is not required to cause movement.

It is a shame that this was handled so poorly. The call should have been made as soon as the replay was reviewed, rather than creating a dark cloud.

Never the less, it was great to see him finally win.

Good and reasonable assessment Nowadays people seem to like to be outraged or completely upset by the slightest things.

[Jima64]

Maybe the ball could no longer defy gravity on the sloping green. But heck golf officials know what is right.

[kcrazorbackfan]

Glad DJ won; finally gets the "but he's never won a major" moniker off his back. Those two USGA officials on the interview were a couple of numnuts; hope there is some fallout from that decision.

[Mikeod]

PGA officials have been using replay to call penalties for a couple of years now. It is simply a matter of the replay providing information that the on site official did not have at the time of the original call. Secondly, no one called him a liar. They simply did not agree with his assessment that nothing he did could have caused the ball to move. I am on the side that his final grounding of the club beside the ball caused the movement - or more likely his lifting of the club in a slightly backward motion move the grass just enough. Contact with the ball is not required to cause movement.

It is a shame that this was handled so poorly. The call should have been made as soon as the replay was reviewed, rather than creating a dark cloud.

Never the less, it was great to see him finally win.
The difference, to me, is that the PGA Tour uses video to see if a violation occurred when informed after the fact that one may have occurred. In this case, the USGA had its rules expert {?} at the scene and got info from Dustin and Westwood and ruled no infraction had happened. That should be the end of it. Otherwise, why have an official walking with group?

Also, there was the other player who actually placed his putter behind the ball and it shifted to the side slightly. That was ruled as no violation. Why the different rationales?

[Marathon Man]

The difference, to me, is that the PGA Tour uses video to see if a violation occurred when informed after the fact that one may have occurred. In this case, the USGA had its rules expert {?} at the scene and got info from Dustin and Westwood and ruled no infraction had happened. That should be the end of it. Otherwise, why have an official walking with group?

Also, there was the other player who actually placed his putter behind the ball and it shifted to the side slightly. That was ruled as no violation. Why the different rationales?

If you are refering to Lowry, he did indeed take a stroke for the violation. And had to replace his ball back to the original position before putting.

I just don't get why everyone is so upset by this. Golf has caught up to other sports in the use of replay to confirm penalties - a proven improvement in officiating.

[Mikeod]

If you are refering to Lowry, he did indeed take a stroke for the violation. And had to replace his ball back to the original position before putting.

I just don't get why everyone is so upset by this. Golf has caught up to other sports in the use of replay to confirm penalties - a proven improvement in officiating.
Nope, not talking about Lowry. There was another player who addressed his ball and noted that the alignment line shifted to the right. He called in an official and explained what had happened. The official determined the player did not cause the ball to move and there was no penalty. The situation was extremely similar to Dustin's.

Other sports use replay because of the speed of the game, think football, baseball, and hockey. And the tendency of players to get away with what they can. The fact that golfers on tour more often than not call penalties on themselves makes it different. I'm not naive enough to think that there aren't some occasions that "slip" by, but the tour is self-policing in that a pro won't get away with it for long before another player turns him/her in.

As I said, my real beef is that two situations, remarkably similar, were treated very differently even though both were caught on camera, and both had a USGA official right on the spot that made a ruling. That should have been the end of it. Just like it was for Ernie Els at an Open at Oakmont and the movable/immovable TV vehicle.

[JGVillages]

I only saw the one video that I assumed was what the officials looked at. It did seem to me that DJ's club was perilously close to the ball. If fact, based on the video I saw, it would be impossible, at least to me, to tell if his club did or did not touch the ball. The only mistake the officials made, imho, was to not immediately assess a penalty stroke after viewing the video. It used to be that if you grounded your club, and then the ball moved, you were assessed a penalty stroke (if I remember correctly). It didn't matter what caused the ball to move. I could be wrong about this, but I think I read that Jack Nicklaus did not ground his putter at address for this very reason. Let me know if I am wrong about the rules or Jack.

He said he did not cause the ball to move. End of story! If the USGA takes the "honor factor" out of golf the players will respond accordingly. Over 25 years of the Long Anchored Putter, now is outlawed. The non-adequate control of the modern golf ball and technology have made many great courses too short to be competitive, and now a disorientated rules committee screws up the biggest USGA event of the year. I said adios to the USGA over the putter and ball issue years ago and this just confirms my actions.