The Guest Pass Thing—Yet, Again—And Over Regulation

[jandbrare]

Visualize, two old friends, one of which lives in nearby Stonecrest, asking me, Jerry, if I could get a tee time for us on a TV course. I'd just enjoyed a friendly, relaxing day playing the Stonecrest course with him and the other friend who lives in Virginia and a fourth, also a non-Stonecrest resident.

So, as it was short notice, I went to the available-tee-time section of the golfing web site and found a tee time on Palmer for 1:13, or thereabouts. I put my wife and I and two guest in. Good, all set.

When we show up to play, my guests are asked, "Do you have a guest pass?" Whoops! I'm thinking that guest passes are only required to use the amenity-fee-supported facilities. Wrong. You gotta have them to play the Owner's golf courses, too. But, even if I had had time to apply for guest passes, my friend from nearby Stonecrest couldn't have gotten one. Not eligible. Lives in the tri-county area. (So, what's the logic, here. One can. One can't.)

But, the desk guy at the club says to my guests, "Okay. Can I see your identification, please. So, my friends dig out their drivers licenses. "Uh-oh, you are from Marion County," he says to the Stonecrest friend. [This is the friend who couldn't have gotten a guest pass had I had time to apply.] The desk attendant was accommodating , however, and proceeds to process the deal, which comes to over $200 for the four of us. (The friend from Stonecrest's green fee is $70, because he is an "Non-resident Guest.") Okay, my friend from Virginia insists on paying it all, which is what I expected he would do, or I wouldn't be playing Palmer in prime season. He's a very generous guy.

Okay, so we get past the ordeal at the club house, and go to the starter's shack. Same thing: "May I see your ID's?" My wife and I show our TV ID's. Our 'guests' have to pull out their drivers licenses, again. How embarrassing!

Folks, we are over regulated. The day at Stonecrest was in stark contrast. The golf course people knew my friend and called him by name. I didn't have to show any ID at the clubhouse or at the tee, although a guest. The beer lady on the course was friendly and knew my friend by name.

By contrast, I bring my friends to The Villages and am completely embarrassed. (My friend from Stonecrest probably enjoyed it all, as he is always promoting Stonecrest over TV to my friend from Virginia.)

We old folks bring this on ourselves. We are constantly asking for more rules and regulations: guest regulations, golf cart speed limits, limited-access streets, etc. Why must we demand regulation? Live a little, while you can.

Jerry

[Bogie Shooter]

Do a search on guest passes, and all of your questions will be answered!

[zcaveman]

You always have to show ID (Village ID or DL) at the starter shacks. If the guest has a guest pass you have already vouched for the guest and he has to show the guest pass. I am not sure but I think he still has to show his DL to prove he is the one with the guest pass.

It is a method of keeping the sneaks from invading the courses.

It is not a problem for me.

[784caroline]

NO probem for me either...tee times are at a premium for both championship and executive courses. The problem is yours for not knowing rules ... and I am surprised that they allowed a non-guest on at AP without a guest pass who lived in Marion County.

BTW all guests are required to show a guest pass at a form of ID at the starter shack! When checking in at a starter shack, I cannot check my wife in...she has to show her ID card herself. As long as it is equally enforced, I have no problem with this either!

[OpusX1]

The Country clubs are private owned public courses. Anyone may play them. They do not need to to be a guest or accompanied by a resident. They will be charged a much higher rate . Resident guest pays $66 at Palmer while non-resident pays $76. The only reason they check for guest passes is to charge the correct amount. Non relative residents of the 3 counties may not be guests and may not get guest passes. With out the passes these people may not use any amenities of TV. Makes sense to me.

[Russ_Boston]

Just wondering why, since the two friends paid public prices, did they need to show a driver's license to the STARTER? Since the courses are public couldn't the starter just look at the receipt to see that he only need to see two resident ID's since the other two paid the full amount?

Isn't the point to make sure that if the person got a discount (resident, guest) that they were who they said? In fact the onus of looking at ID's should be on the pro shop where payment is made. The starters should only care that they have a proper receipt.

Residents should know the rules but why the double check by the starter?

[Indy-Guy]

Lets take a look at this whole thing that you are calling over regulated. Most things are done for a reason and lets take a look at it.

First most people that purchase at Stonecrest and other places close to The Villages state that they get more home for their money (which they do) and don’t want to pay for The Villages lifestyle. So The Villages has regulations that will insure that they don’t come in and use the amenities that are The Villages lifestyle that they didn’t feel was worth paying for.

If you live (have a drivers license or ID) in the surrounding counties you are not able to get a guest pass. This does several things. It keeps The Villages amenities for the people and guest of those who live here and not for the people who live in the surrounding communities. Example for the last several years the executive courses were unattended after 5:30PM so during the Spring, Summer and Fall during daylight savings time you could play up to sundown on a first come first serve basis. Well this last Spring they kept the Ambassadors on the courses till sundown. I asked why are you guys still here and they said that there was a problem with people coming in from neighboring communities and playing our courses. Why were they doing this because there was no one there to check them or charge them. I remember seeing a guy pull up to Heron and saw his Stonecrest plate on the front of his car he got out pulled out his pull cart and walked on like he owned the place.

I played golf with a foursome a couple of months ago and one of the guys said he lives at Del Webb. I asked him what kind of shape their course was in his answer was he didn’t know he always plays down here with his buddy. Now you are asking me how he gets on here. I didn’t have to ask he was a snowbird and his drivers license shows his address and state up North. If the flood gates were open and they didn’t have the regulations then it would be even harder to get a tee time this time of the year or any time of the year.

Yes the program is that you show you Villages ID and guest pass with drivers license when you check in at the pro shop then you show them again at the starters shack. This is done because some time ago people would come over with their buddy and go into the golf shop show their Villages ID pay for the round of golf walk out the door and hand the starter slip to their buddy who lives near by and then he would go to the starter shack and play a round and the resident would go home since he wasn’t play golf. So this is the way that they know the same person who checks in at the pro shop is the same person who enters the golf course.

Lets address the cost of play. You state that your Stonecrest friend had to pay $70.00 and your Virginia friend payed less. Your Virginia friend paid $10.00 less than your Stonecrest friend. Oh sorry that’s right you stated that your Virginia friend paid for it all or you wouldn’t have played Palmer this time of the year since it was prime season. Perhaps that is part of the problem the more you play the courses then the better you know the system.

You state that at Stonecrest they know your friend by name at the club house. Of course they do they only have one golf course and if you play several times a week then they should know your name. My guess is that if I played only at Cane Garden the 2-3 times a week that I play they would know me by name. I play the 7 different championship courses that I can get to within a 15 min. golf cart ride from my home. Most of the people who check me in know me by face and call me by name when I give them my Villages ID. I don’t expect them to know me when I walk in the door as I know they have many people who come through there daily. If my wife is with me I don’t want them to know me by name as she would think I play way to much golf.

I have no problem with people who have chosen to purchase at Del Webb, Storecrest, Spruce Creek and others. They come to The Villages and use the town squares, restaurants and shopping areas. The more money they spend in The Villages the more new things we will get. It’s a win win situation. Good for them and good for The Villages.

I have to admit that till you know the system many things seem to not make sense. After one is here for a while and uses the amenities then the knowledge of the program will increase and you will just walk up and go with the flow. I for one understand that these regulations are in place for reasons. These regulations are in place because people have taken advantage of the system and sought out the loop holes. If people have a question about the regulations simply walk into the pro shop and ask. Don’t go between 7:30 AM and 9:30 AM or between 11:30 AM to 1:30 PM because that is when they are busy checking in golfers for the wave tee times. The rest of the time they will have plenty of time to answer your questions. Also go to your recreation center and talk with the people there they will all be happy to answer your questions about regulations.

[Russ_Boston]

INDY - I agree 100% and it is one of the reasons for moving to TV.

That doesn't answer the starter question though. Why would a guest (or public in this case) need to be asked by the starter for an ID since they already have a paid receipt to show that they paid by the rules?

[villages07]

Actually, JandD, the country club cut you some slack.... normally, at this time of year, you can't reserve ahead of time for 'general public' tee time slots on Champ courses. The public can only snatch open tee times the day of play by calling the club. So, when you made the 3-day-out reservation for you, your wife, and 2 guests (but one was actually a public non-guest) you grabbed a tee time you ended up not being entitled to. I know... rules rules... but tee times this time of year are scarce and limiting 'public' slots to day of play is one way TV tries to prioritize and accommodate resident and guest golf demand.

Otherwise, I agree with Indy's assessment of the situation.

[rshoffer]

The Country clubs are private owned public courses. Anyone may play them. They do not need to to be a guest or accompanied by a resident. They will be charged a much higher rate . Resident guest pays $66 at Palmer while non-resident pays $76. The only reason they check for guest passes is to charge the correct amount. Non relative residents of the 3 counties may not be guests and may not get guest passes. With out the passes these people may not use any amenities of TV. Makes sense to me. May non relative residents of the 3 counties call any country club and request a t time ? If the answer is yes , other than paying a higher fee , what is expected at the starters shack when the non resident arrives? I played last week with a resident from Spruce Creek... the guy in the Starters shack berated him because he "didn't have a guest pass". I was totally confused since I thought the courses were open to non Villagers except at a higher fee. I'm lost

[RCT]

You are embarrassed? Why? Because rules are rules? I for one am very happy for these rules. If Stonecrest sounds like it fits your idea of how things should be, then, as we all say, this is a free country, you can choose to live there instead. All i know is, that in so many ads for these other communities, the advertisement says "close to the Villages". I wonder why????

[Pookirgirl]

OK..so now I am really confused. I am NOT a Villager yet but would like to know the answer to this question. If I become a resident of TV and have friends at my home and we would like to play a game of golf with them, we CAN or CANNOT play with them IF they come from the tri-county area? That's kind of weird if you can't. There is no way possible to take someone from Stonecrest to our golf courses as a guest? Please clarify this.

[graciegirl]

I agree with Indy. These rules keep our courses from just being another public course.

[Russ_Boston]

As always a little confusion. Page 20 of the guide published by the golf course management says it all.

http://www.golfthevillages.com/golf-in-the-villages/goodgolfguide.pdf


Different rules for the championship courses vs. the execs which makes sense since the execs are supported by Villager amenity fees.

[Fourpar]

Good summary, Indy. :agree::agree:
As with most thins in The Villages, the rules have a reason, and most of the time they make sense.

[OpusX1]

All so your friends from the tri-county area are prohibited from using the pools, pickle ball/tennis courts, activities at the rec centers like cards, dance lessons, club activities. They may play golf on the championship courses, for a fee, but not on the executive courses.

[rshoffer]

As always a little confusion. Page 20 of the guide published by the golf course management says it all.

http://www.golfthevillages.com/golf-in-the-villages/goodgolfguide.pdf


Different rules for the championship courses vs. the execs which makes sense since the execs are supported by Villager amenity fees.Did this answer the question: can a friend of mine from Leesburg play golf with me on a championship course?

[Bogie Shooter]

Did this answer the question: can a friend of mine from Leesburg play golf with me on a championship course?

Did you ask at the pro shop?

[rshoffer]

Did you ask at the pro shop?No, but the guy who I mentioned above stated, "The championship courses are open to the public" Was he correct or incorrect?

[Bogie Shooter]

No, but the guy who I mentioned above stated, "The championship courses are open to the public" Was he correct or incorrect?
Yes, your friend from Leesburg can play with you on a championship course.

[Russ_Boston]

Did this answer the question: can a friend of mine from Leesburg play golf with me on a championship course?

Yes it does answer it. From page 20:

If your guest does not qualify for a Villages guest pass they
will pay the non-resident greens fee.

[Bogie Shooter]

Did this answer the question: can a friend of mine from Leesburg play golf with me on a championship course?
Well, I called Palmer. Put your friend in the tee time reservation system as a guest. When you check in they will change the reservation (after looking at ID) from resident guest to non-resident and your guest will pay the non-resident fees.
Gosh, that wasn't hard at all and took all of 20 seconds to get an answer.

[Indy-Guy]

Below is a website that shows the current golf rates. At the bottom it is described what a Non-Resident is and what a Resident. It is amazing that this site is on The Villages.com under the golf area.

http://www.thevillages.com/golf/championship/golfRates_winter09.htm

If this dosen't work go to the golf area then click on Championship then click on rates and you are there.

[kencam]

WOW !! Excellent summary of what has happened and why the "checks" are in place. Suffice it to say, if there's a loop hole, the people that look for those things will find it. Rules are made for the majority, they think, not for them. Good Job... Thanks !! (10 year resident of TV...& loving every day !!!

[Russ_Boston]

Seems simple enough!

I think I even answered my own previous question about whey the starter double checks even though there is a paid receipt:

I guess you could have residents pay at the pro shop and then substitute someone else (a full pay public) in their place. So the starter just checks the receipt with the ID's. Makes sense. The difference between resident and public is substantial.

[rshoffer]

Now I see where the problem is.... if you make a tee time over the computer and put a non resident, say from Stonecrest, down as your guest, when they get to the pro shop and check in they will need to be "changed" from a priority guest or resident guest to simply a non-resident. The only ID card they need then is a photo ID.... however, when they get out to the starter shack, his computer print-out likely still has them down as a priority guest or resident guest and if the pro shop hasn't communicated to the starter shack that they are really a non-resident (and not a guest) the guy in the starter shack is going to want to see a guest ID pass (which they obviously don't have). This is exactly what happened to the guy fron Spruce Creek I played with a few weeks ago. The guy in the starter shack was absolutely beside himself because the Spruce Creek gut didn't have a Villeges guest card.

[Bogie Shooter]

Seems simple enough!

I think I even answered my own previous question about whey the starter double checks even though there is a paid receipt:

I guess you could have residents pay at the pro shop and then substitute someone else (a full pay public) in their place. So the starter just checks the receipt with the ID's. Makes sense. The difference between resident and public is substantial.

:laugh:"Seems simple enought" Only took 25 posts to get there.

[SABRMnLgs]

Just got another reason not to try golf. It's way to complicated and that's before you even try the game.


:shrug:

[jandbrare]

Actually, JandD, the country club cut you some slack.... normally, at this time of year, you can't reserve ahead of time for 'general public' tee time slots on Champ courses. The public can only snatch open tee times the day of play by calling the club. So, when you made the 3-day-out reservation for you, your wife, and 2 guests (but one was actually a public non-guest) you grabbed a tee time you ended up not being entitled to. I know... rules rules... but tee times this time of year are scarce and limiting 'public' slots to day of play is one way TV tries to prioritize and accommodate resident and guest golf demand.

Otherwise, I agree with Indy's assessment of the situation.

It was easy to get the tee time. I just went to the golf system on-line (through thevillages.net, and looked for an open tee time and entered my wife, me, and two guests. My wife and I are priority members. I figured that my friend from Va. would pay the Priority Guest rate and that the Stonecrest friend would have to pay more. I was just trying to entertain my friends at one of TV courses. The 'system' allows available tee-time selection on the golf web site after the usual application period is over. It is not not necessary to wait for "day of play" availability.

Jerry

[jandbrare]

Just got another reason not to try golf. It's way to complicated and that's before you even try the game.


:shrug:
Hmmm, you may be right....at least at TV.

Jerry

[jandbrare]

Now I see where the problem is.... if you make a tee time over the computer and put a non resident, say from Stonecrest, down as your guest, when they get to the pro shop and check in they will need to be "changed" from a priority guest or resident guest to simply a non-resident. The only ID card they need then is a photo ID.... however, when they get out to the starter shack, his computer print-out likely still has them down as a priority guest or resident guest and if the pro shop hasn't communicated to the starter shack that they are really a non-resident (and not a guest) the guy in the starter shack is going to want to see a guest ID pass (which they obviously don't have). This is exactly what happened to the guy fron Spruce Creek I played with a few weeks ago. The guy in the starter shack was absolutely beside himself because the Spruce Creek gut didn't have a Villeges guest card.

Is it a little too 'regulated'? You want to bring a friend in from Spuce Creek and you have to endure this?

Jerry

[graciegirl]

We are not a small one golf course community. Doesn't seem much to "endure" to me. It takes some rigamarole at our home private club to get a guest in and the member pays.

[Mallory]

Jerry - Seems to me that you tried to slip one by, got caught, were embarassed, and are now trying to shift the blame. Sorry.

[jandbrare]

NO probem for me either...tee times are at a premium for both championship and executive courses. The problem is yours for not knowing rules ... and I am surprised that they allowed a non-guest on at AP without a guest pass who lived in Marion County.

BTW all guests are required to show a guest pass at a form of ID at the starter shack! When checking in at a starter shack, I cannot check my wife in...she has to show her ID card herself. As long as it is equally enforced, I have no problem with this either!

I don't think you can get a guest pass if you live in Marion Co.

Jerry

[jandbrare]

Actually, JandD, the country club cut you some slack.... normally, at this time of year, you can't reserve ahead of time for 'general public' tee time slots on Champ courses. The public can only snatch open tee times the day of play by calling the club. So, when you made the 3-day-out reservation for you, your wife, and 2 guests (but one was actually a public non-guest) you grabbed a tee time you ended up not being entitled to. I know... rules rules... but tee times this time of year are scarce and limiting 'public' slots to day of play is one way TV tries to prioritize and accommodate resident and guest golf demand.

Otherwise, I agree with Indy's assessment of the situation.

Where in the 'Rules' is it written that you can't put a Marion County resident in as a guest in the tee-time system? That is your understanding, but without being a TV lawyer, how does one know?

Jerry

[jandbrare]

Jerry - Seems to me that you tried to slip one by, got caught, were embarassed, and are now trying to shift the blame. Sorry.

No, actually, I just wanted to make a tee time for my wife, me, and two guests. But, I won't try again.

Jerry

[rshoffer]

Is it a little too 'regulated'? You want to bring a friend in from Spuce Creek and you have to endure this?

Jerryit is as good a system as I could come up with, the starter shack guy seems to not get the info he needs so as to not hassle the non resident player . I think I now understand the situation enough to navigate it with non resident friends.

[rshoffer]

Where in the 'Rules' is it written that you can't put a Marion County resident in as a guest in the tee-time system? That is your understanding, but without being a TV lawyer, how does one know?

JerryThey are NOT a guest... they are "non-resident" players. They pay a higher fee than guests and do NOT need guest passes. It took me a while to figure it out.

[Bogie Shooter]

Well, I called Palmer. Put your friend in the tee time reservation system as a guest. When you check in they will change the reservation (after looking at ID) from resident guest to non-resident and your guest will pay the non-resident fees.
Gosh, that wasn't hard at all and took all of 20 seconds to get an answer.

Did anyone read this??
The problem you had is the lack of communication between the pro shop and the starter shack. Wouldn't it make sense for one of the offfended parties to contact the Pro a AP, explain your concern.......maybe he just might fix this gap.
(flinging barbs back and forth will solve nothing)

[Indy-Guy]

No, actually, I just wanted to make a tee time for my wife, me, and two guests. But, I won't try again.

Jerry

Jerry,

I truly feel bad that you had a bad experience. I would be more than happy to meet with you and help you work the system to your needs. I don't want to debate the issue. I beleive that the system works and that more times than not it is a misunderstanding as to how to work the system for what your needs are.

Feel free to private e-mail me, from up in the upper right hand part of this screen, and I will meet with you if you feel that I can be of help. If not I feel that this dead horse has been kicked to death.

[jandbrare]

Well, I called Palmer. Put your friend in the tee time reservation system as a guest. When you check in they will change the reservation (after looking at ID) from resident guest to non-resident and your guest will pay the non-resident fees.
Gosh, that wasn't hard at all and took all of 20 seconds to get an answer.

Yep, that's what I did, so I'm a law-abiding citizen. EXCEPT, I didn't get the Va. guest a guest pass. (Didn't think I'd have to if he wasn't using amenity-supported facilities.) I couldn't have gotten the Stonecrest resident a quest pass because, duh, he is a tri-county resident.

Honest, guys, I wasn't trying to be deceptive. Just trying to make a simple tee-time request—as a priority member on a TV golf course.

Jerry

[SABRMnLgs]

From another Jerry .............. I live in TV and in Marion County. I DON'T play golf yet some of my amenities money goes toward the upkeep of the courses. I DON'T play pickleball, tennis, et al but part of my amenities goes toward upkeep of those facilities also. I know nothing anything about polo nor am I interested so I DON'T go there either yet part of my amenities go towards up keep of that place also. I could go on abou baseball fields, town squares and the like but you get the idea.
Perhaps if the percentage of money I pay through my amenities thing for stuff I won't ever need or use, you could put that amount of monies towards your friend's fees as he does use thse facilities.
I guess if your a golfer, it's important. To me, I could care less if they come from two blocks or 200 miles away. Sure gives a twist to "Florida's
Friendliest?? Home Town though dosen't it?
Gives the folks going back home a real piece of cannon fodder to tell their friends. I won't ramble cause I'll get in trouble again.

:shrug:

[graciegirl]

Jerry.

Up north in Ohio we have a home in a golf course community that we pay membership dues to the golf course year round. This community has a top notch school system. This community has a fitness center and nice shopping and good restaurants nearby. We can only play golf on the course in the summer months. We don't have kids in the school system. We don't go to the fitness center. BUT all of those things make our home more comfortable and the community more attractive and although values everywhere have dropped, we still have a decent investment relatively speaking.

Here, most of us don't avail ourselves to everything offered, and even if we don't play golf, the profusion of golf courses make attractive green spaces and increase the value of the community.

The amenities fees of about $130 per month do not seem unfair to me.

I hope I am not jumping on you Jerry. You and me and everyone here should be having the time of their lives. That is one of the draws of this lovely place, the residents seem to be enjoying themselves and are so friendly.

GG

P.S. Jerry, you might try golf, a LOT of people love it!

[SABRMnLgs]

Sorry Grace, golf is a great outlet for some people. But for me .... taking a stick and hitting a ball around a cow pasture in the hot sun is a four letter word ... w-o-r-k!
I used to play baseball into college and at some point decided exercizing my mind was more important. I do nothing that involves any kind of ball, stick, puck, water or horses.
I do however still have a passion for sports research and music.

[Ooper]

I for one, if I didn't do any activity that was funded by the amenitiy fees, I would probably be living some place different. As was posted before, you do get more house per dollar outside The Villages. Why wouldn't I do that if I don't partake? The reason I am living here is because of everything TV offers and I don't mind the "cost" for this.

[Bogie Shooter]

I don't understand how some people moved to TV and are still here.....when all they offer are negative comments.