Closed vs Open clubs at Rec Centers

[JoelJohnson]

If a person goes to a club that is supposed to be open, but the people there refuse to accommodate them, when they could, doesn't that mean it's a closed club. If so shouldn't that club be made to pay for the room at the rec center?

This happened to my wife and the the director in charge of the rec center refused to intervene. She called John Rohan's office and they referred it back to the director. The director did call my wife back, it sounds like nothing is going to change.

I refrained from pointing out the club and the rec center, but will if I get enough interest, or, if she goes back there and nothing has changed.

[Miles42]

Some of the so called clubs are real clanish.

[Bonny]

Depends on what the club is. If it's a neighborhood club, I would think that could be a closed club just for those people.

[Mimivillager]

If the club has reached capacity that the room can safely hold, it must be closed to new membership

[redwitch]

It could be one of those that clubs where maximum membership has occurred even though the room can hold more people. This is especially true of some craft clubs that have a lot of snowbird members. If that's not the case, then it is absolutely inexcusable to not allow a new member. If nothing else, they could have let your wife participate as a guest unless it was an activity that required two people and she'd be the odd man out.

[CFrance]

I think we need more information. What kind of club is it? Is there a certain level of expertise required? I know of a bridge club (I'm not in it) that is for a specific level of bridge. A beginner showed up, and they advised her that she was not at the club's level of play. She tried to persist, including bringing in doughnuts the next week. They still would not let her participate. This was a level of play well beyond beginners level, and she would have hampered play. The head of the club intervened and she was not allowed to play.

Some clubs make it clear in the Rec Magazine that they do not teach; they are only for practicing your craft. There is more information needed in order to make a judgement about what happened.

[JoelJohnson]

OK, here are more details.

My wife and a friend went to El Santiago rec center at 4:30 Friday night to play Pokemo. She goes there and there were several people already there some of them 6 at a table. When she gets there she asks to play, but the people at the tables say that they have been playing for years together and don't want to break up their group. Now you need at least 4 to play. She was told that she should have brought 4 people to play.

My wife saw the leader and someone else go talk to the rec center director, but they never talked to my wife. My wife went up there and asked what was going on. The director sided with the leader. Now my wife pointed out that the the club was supposed to be open which means they are supposed to accommodate new players. After a while, since nothing was changing, she and her friend left.

She and her friend went to another Pokemo game later in the week and they broke up a group of 6 and created two groups of 5. They made the effort.

My point is that if the club is "open" the club does not pay for the room, but if it is "Closed" then the are supposed to pay for the room.

Don't we have rules for a reason? Shouldn't the rec center directors enforce the rules? Aren't we all equal, or are some more equal than others?

[jnieman]

We belong to a very large social club in The Villages with 350 members but only 240 seats at our rec center. It is a sell out every month with a long waiting list for new members. The people on the waiting list got together and started a new club very similar to the other club. Now the two clubs (sister clubs) do charities together a few times a year so it is a win win.

It is not difficult to run your own club and that is the beauty of living here is you can start your own club. It used to be you just needed a short list of those interested who will join your club. Check with the regional recreation centers for info if interested. They will advertise your club in the newsletter for you to get more members if you have the initial few.

[TNLAKEPANDA]

Who would want to play with a bunch of people like that! Not me.

[Bonny]

This is probably a group of friends and neighbors that live in Santiago that get together at a rec center because their houses aren't big enough for everyone to get together. If they have played together for a long time, they may not want to break up their groups of friends for strangers.
I'm assuming all would have been good if your wife came with her own group of 4.

[redwitch]

Sadly, that is the way with many clubs here -- either bring your own friends or don't play. Kind of defeats the purpose of trying to make new friends. Since the club did not outright ban her, the odds are there is nothing the rec center/department could do. Stinks but it is what it is. To me, it is inexcusable to not welcome new players so long as they can be accommodated. I'm so glad your wife found a more welcoming group.

I'm a serious duplicate bridge player. We rarely have a spare player at our sessions to accommodate someone wanting to play without their partner (true even if a long-time player's partner doesn't show up). We do, however, go out of way to invite newcomers to call our partnership desks so they can play another time. (So long as they know bridge basics.) And, of course, they are always welcome to kibbutz.

[Madelaine Amee]

This is probably a group of friends and neighbors that live in Santiago that get together at a rec center because their houses aren't big enough for everyone to get together. If they have played together for a long time, they may not want to break up their groups of friends for strangers.
I'm assuming all would have been good if your wife came with her own group of 4.

I'm with Bonny on this one. If a group of card players has been playing together for any length of time they are a "club" unto themselves and I don't think your wife and her friend should have tried to join them. A group of six of us play cards once a week and we would not appreciate anyone trying to break us up, it is our own private little social group for the time we are there.

I'm going to suggest that your wife call the contact for a club in which she is interested, and ask whether they welcome newcomers.

[Jima64]

If it is a group of friends that gets together for social get together and cards. If it isn;t a listed group for the rec center I don't see them admitting new people.

[jimbo2012]

If the club has reached capacity that the room can safely hold, it must be closed to new membership

That is simply incorrect.

I run the LI Club we have and will continue to have unlimited membership. We have 565 now, the room can't hold all nor does the rec ctr ever ask how many members we have.

you can have a zillion members, sell the seats first come basis, we have had 300 attend at times.

.

[rubicon]

OK, here are more details.

My wife and a friend went to El Santiago rec center at 4:30 Friday night to play Pokemo. She goes there and there were several people already there some of them 6 at a table. When she gets there she asks to play, but the people at the tables say that they have been playing for years together and don't want to break up their group. Now you need at least 4 to play. She was told that she should have brought 4 people to play.

My wife saw the leader and someone else go talk to the rec center director, but they never talked to my wife. My wife went up there and asked what was going on. The director sided with the leader. Now my wife pointed out that the the club was supposed to be open which means they are supposed to accommodate new players. After a while, since nothing was changing, she and her friend left.

She and her friend went to another Pokemo game later in the week and they broke up a group of 6 and created two groups of 5. They made the effort.

My point is that if the club is "open" the club does not pay for the room, but if it is "Closed" then the are supposed to pay for the room.

Don't we have rules for a reason? Shouldn't the rec center directors enforce the rules? Aren't we all equal, or are some more equal than others?

Based on the above-stated description it appears that there were no adults in the room including the rec center director who failed his/or her job in directing.

In our neighborhood gatherings there is always room for one more

When we have events my wife and I stay open to sit at any of our tables. Aren't we a bit too old to still be clinging to cliques. clique clingers can't live with them can't live without them:D

[Fraugoofy]

OK, here are more details.

My wife and a friend went to El Santiago rec center at 4:30 Friday night to play Pokemo. She goes there and there were several people already there some of them 6 at a table. When she gets there she asks to play, but the people at the tables say that they have been playing for years together and don't want to break up their group. Now you need at least 4 to play. She was told that she should have brought 4 people to play.

My wife saw the leader and someone else go talk to the rec center director, but they never talked to my wife. My wife went up there and asked what was going on. The director sided with the leader. Now my wife pointed out that the the club was supposed to be open which means they are supposed to accommodate new players. After a while, since nothing was changing, she and her friend left.

She and her friend went to another Pokemo game later in the week and they broke up a group of 6 and created two groups of 5. They made the effort.

My point is that if the club is "open" the club does not pay for the room, but if it is "Closed" then the are supposed to pay for the room.

Don't we have rules for a reason? Shouldn't the rec center directors enforce the rules? Aren't we all equal, or are some more equal than others?
America's friendliest hometown!

Sent from my SM-N910R4 using Tapatalk

[golfing eagles]

Sounds like this could have been handled better. I have no knowledge of "Pokemo", so no idea if a certain skill level is involved

Social clubs should really be open to all

Certain activities require a certain skill level---you can't play pickleball without taking the course and getting rated, likewise, a golf group that plays the champ courses from the black tees probably doesn't want a beginner----it would be no fun for anyone and there is no need to play way above your level. These activities do have groups of all skill levels available.

Same with bridge, sanctioned duplicate games are usually flighted or stratiflighted. I don't know about TV since we haven't played here

BTW, Redwitch, where are the reasonable duplicate games? My wife and I are both ACBL certified teachers, ACBL certified directors and life masters several times over, but haven't played in over 15 years and probably $uck.(We just got tired of the the game being played by litigation rather than skill, especially since my wife will take time to consider a bid on occasion and kept getting hit with law 16B violations) That and the Rita Shugart "Oh $**t" ruling that made it clear that the rules do not apply to the top pros.

[Rapscallion St Croix]

http://image.slidesharecdn.com/saudiehealthconfnov2014publicfinal24nov-141124035227-conversion-gate02/95/the-rise-and-rise-of-hcps-social-networks-focus-on-gcc-region-35-638.jpg?cb=1416801632

[Erika]

I'm with Bonny on this one. If a group of card players has been playing together for any length of time they are a "club" unto themselves and I don't think your wife and her friend should have tried to join them. A group of six of us play cards once a week and we would not appreciate anyone trying to break us up, it is our own private little social group for the time we are there.

I'm going to suggest that your wife call the contact for a club in which she is interested, and ask whether they welcome newcomers.

If it is your "own private little social group" it should meet at a private location rather than at a rec center which is open to public TV residents.

I wouldn't find it enjoyable to impose on an unwelcoming group but I personally don't think that it's very nice to be exclusive in the way you have described.

[graciegirl]

This is probably a group of friends and neighbors that live in Santiago that get together at a rec center because their houses aren't big enough for everyone to get together. If they have played together for a long time, they may not want to break up their groups of friends for strangers.
I'm assuming all would have been good if your wife came with her own group of 4.

That is what I would do. Wouldn't you Bonny? I don't like to be where I am not welcome.

[redwitch]

Sorry, if you're meeting at a rec center and there's room and a way to accommodate a new player, there is absolutely no excuse for not welcoming someone new. You want to just play with friends, then play in each other's homes. Don't be rude and exclude folks because you have your own clique.

GE, sent you a PM re dupe.

[CFrance]

Sorry, if you're meeting at a rec center and there's room and a way to accommodate a new player, there is absolutely no excuse for not welcoming someone new. You want to just play with friends, then play in each other's homes. Don't be rude and exclude folks because you have your own clique.

GE, sent you a PM re dupe.
I agree with this, especially in view of the rules. Otherwise, it seems like people are kind of blaming the victim.

[perrjojo]

Sorry, if you're meeting at a rec center and there's room and a way to accommodate a new player, there is absolutely no excuse for not welcoming someone new. You want to just play with friends, then play in each other's homes. Don't be rude and exclude folks because you have your own clique.

GE, sent you a PM re dupe.
Amen! Private groups should be held in private homes. If the club is listed in the rec paper it should be open to anyone who pays amenity fees.

[outlaw]

If I showed up at a club, and there were no open spots, and no one offered to let me squeeze in, I would just leave. No harm, no foul. I sure wouldn't be offended. I understand long standing groups that like to get together with themselves. I would not make a scene and get management involved. I would just figure all the spots were taken, and I need to plan better if I really want to participate. This seems a bit self centered and an entitled attitude. Why in the world would you want to push yourself into a group that isn't interested in having you join them?

[Madelaine Amee]

I fully understand that all clubs should be "open" to newcomers, technically they are, but in reality they are not! There is a distinct difference to being "open" and "welcoming". I found that out the hard way when a girlfriend and I just "dropped" in to a game of Scrabble, the resident players looked at us like we had three heads (not just two), they did break up a table to play with us, but they were not playing the game of scrabble we had always played!!! Uncomfortable, you bet! It's a fact of life, if you insist on breaking up a group that plays every week you are going to be very, very uncomfortable.

To avoid any problems in the future, I suggest you contact the leader of the group, explain that two of you would like to play and ask for her advice - she may have other singles looking to play.

I may be the odd man out here, but I never go to a new club without first calling the leader, whose name is always available, and asking if they have room etc. etc. I do not push myself in where I am not wanted and, therefore, will not enjoy myself. Also, if you call ahead they will be expecting you and most likely introduce you to the group!

As for six of us playing weekly - we actually do not play at one of the clubs, I used that example just to explain how we would feel if someone insisted on breaking in to our "cliquey" little group.

[Madelaine Amee]

If I showed up at a club, and there were no open spots, and no one offered to let me squeeze in, I would just leave. No harm, no foul. I sure wouldn't be offended. I understand long standing groups that like to get together with themselves. I would not make a scene and get management involved. I would just figure all the spots were taken, and I need to plan better if I really want to participate. This seems a bit self centered and an entitled attitude. Why in the world would you want to push yourself into a group that isn't interested in having you join them?

:agree:

[Bryan]

It appears you were "blown off" by the rec cen director as well as Rec Dept management and never got a straight answer. I would go to a Welcome Wednesday meeting at the District Offices in Sumter Landing (2nd floor conference room) and ask your question when the Rec Dept director makes an update. Those meetings are open to the public, held at 11 AM almost every Wednesday (not 7/06 though) and last about 45 minutes. You will get an answer - maybe not at the meeting but shortly thereafter.

[RickeyD]

If a person goes to a club that is supposed to be open, but the people there refuse to accommodate them, when they could, doesn't that mean it's a closed club. If so shouldn't that club be made to pay for the room at the rec center?



This happened to my wife and the the director in charge of the rec center refused to intervene. She called John Rohan's office and they referred it back to the director. The director did call my wife back, it sounds like nothing is going to change.



I refrained from pointing out the club and the rec center, but will if I get enough interest, or, if she goes back there and nothing has changed.



Mean people suck

[graciegirl]

I have heard that the really, really, really good Mahjong players are not very excited about newbies. I understand this. Many people watched their moms play Mahjong as infants. It is practically in their genes. I was raised on Euchre. We taught grandkids to play it at very early age.

I wouldn't like to join an established group that didn't seem glad to see me, or break up a group who usually plays together. I agree with Outlaw on this one. No way would I get the staff involved. I would find another place or group or play another game. I am never happy if I win by intimidation. Some people thrive on it.

[redwitch]

[QUOTE=graciegirl;1247684]I have heard that the really, really, really good Mahjong players are not very excited about newbies. I understand this. Many people watched their moms play Mahjong as infants. It is practically in their genes. I was raised on Euchre. We taught grandkids to play it at very early age.

I wouldn't like to join an established group that didn't seem glad to see me, or break up a group who usually plays together. I agree with Outlaw on this one. No way would I get the staff involved. I would find another place or group or play another game. I am never happy if I win by intimidation. Some people thrive on it.[/]

I agree that I wouldn't force myself on a group such as this -- they'd make darn sure I knew I was unwelcome. However, I also believe groups like this have no business at rec centers. Every event should be open so long as there is room, a person has the skill level as posted in the rec center list and a person can be accommodated and every new person should be made to feel welcome. If your group can't do this, then find a venue where you can play privately.

[CFrance]

It appears you were "blown off" by the rec cen director as well as Rec Dept management and never got a straight answer. I would go to a Welcome Wednesday meeting at the District Offices in Sumter Landing (2nd floor conference room) and ask your question when the Rec Dept director makes an update. Those meetings are open to the public, held at 11 AM almost every Wednesday (not 7/06 though) and last about 45 minutes. You will get an answer - maybe not at the meeting but shortly thereafter.
I think you can also get ananswer by emailing the headof the Rec Dept. I have, on more than one occasion.

As Gracie and others pointed out, you probably will not be appreciated entering into an established group of players. but it's another case of having rules but not enforcing them. You can probably force the issue if you go to the top, but it won't change that group's mindset, and they will probably make you unhappy.

This isn't America's Friendliest Hometown. That is just marketing. TV is your normal group of 110,000 people, each of whom having unique personality and nature, some good and some not.

I know what I would do... I would go to the top and ask why this is happening, and maybe they will advise the group to follow the rules. But I would find somewhere else to play, because bad feeling between you and the group is already established, and that would be hard to overcome. JMO

[Madelaine Amee]

I think you can also get ananswer by emailing the headof the Rec Dept. I have, on more than one occasion.

As Gracie and others pointed out, you probably will not be appreciated entering into an established group of players. but it's another case of having rules but not enforcing them. You can probably force the issue if you go to the top, but it won't change that group's mindset, and they will probably make you unhappy.

This isn't America's Friendliest Hometown. That is just marketing. TV is your normal group of 110,000 people, each of whom having unique personality and nature, some good and some not.

I know what I would do... I would go to the top and ask why this is happening, and maybe they will advise the group to follow the rules. But I would find somewhere else to play, because bad feeling between you and the group is already established, and that would be hard to overcome. JMO

:agree: with you too! To my uncomplicated mind, it's just commonsense. I would go to the top and ask why this is happening CF, you have more energy than I have, I would just let it lay ............... too many really, really, important things in life to be fretting about.

[charmed59]

I can see it from both points of view. I am in the process of purchasing a home here. My hubby and I are still in the mode where we get up in the morning and look in the rec news to see what is happening for the week and if it sounds interesting we show up. If, in the write up, it asks you to contact someone before showing up we do that.

However, we have shown up for a few activities where there were no people, or it was a closed group. It was disappointing, but I blame that more on the rec news putting in more clubs and activities than they actually have available. Perhaps they could ask all leaders once a season to send in an update to determine if a) they are open to new members b) they have limited availabilty for new members c) they are full right now, so take them off the list of possible things to do c) they are on hiatus for the summer, with next meeting starting in <put date here>.

They do seem pretty good at pointing out levels of each activity, so we don't show up for advanced when we've never done it before. And in most cases, folks are very welcoming to new people.

[Bonny]

What happened doesn't necessarily have anything to do with people being friendly or not.
We lived in Santiago from 2000 - 2004. We were a very active Village. Dinner groups, Saturday bowling, golf outings, progressive dinners, driveway parties, block parties, social club, bocce tournaments, women's club and yes a game night at a rec center.
This was really for the people in that Village to get to know each other & socialize. A lot of times we would talk about new ideas and activities for our Village.
I love people and love to meet people, but this really wasn't an activity for those that didn't live in that Village.

[graciegirl]

I think you can also get ananswer by emailing the headof the Rec Dept. I have, on more than one occasion.

As Gracie and others pointed out, you probably will not be appreciated entering into an established group of players. but it's another case of having rules but not enforcing them. You can probably force the issue if you go to the top, but it won't change that group's mindset, and they will probably make you unhappy.

This isn't America's Friendliest Hometown. That is just marketing. TV is your normal group of 110,000 people, each of whom having unique personality and nature, some good and some not.

I know what I would do... I would go to the top and ask why this is happening, and maybe they will advise the group to follow the rules. But I would find somewhere else to play, because bad feeling between you and the group is already established, and that would be hard to overcome. JMO

BE the friend yourself. I wouldn't want someone who is a vegan joining my group on how to serve hamburger 100 ways. (I am not in that group and I doubt there is one, but you get where I'm going) You have to be the grown up you are to realize that in some things it is an advance to walk away.

As my sweet daughter tells me often. You can't have everything in this world you want.

[keithwand]

I was the only person to show up at the Solitary Club. Really good time.

[Fredster]

I was the only person to show up at the Solitary Club. Really good time.

You are the :eclipsee_gold_cup:

[golfing eagles]

You are the :eclipsee_gold_cup:

No, he was a "participant" :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[justjim]

I'm with Bonny on this one. If a group of card players has been playing together for any length of time they are a "club" unto themselves and I don't think your wife and her friend should have tried to join them. A group of six of us play cards once a week and we would not appreciate anyone trying to break us up, it is our own private little social group for the time we are there.

I'm going to suggest that your wife call the contact for a club in which she is interested, and ask whether they welcome newcomers.

I'm not a big "club person" but I'm thinking why would six people call their card game a club. Why wouldn't you just meet at each other's home where you could have a beverage some food etc. etc. instead of a sterile environment like a recreation center. I suppose I'm missing something here. Just a thought........

[CFrance]

I'm not a big "club person" but I'm thinking why would six people call their card game a club. Why wouldn't you just meet at each other's home where you could have a beverage some food etc. etc. instead of a sterile environment like a recreation center. I suppose I'm missing something here. Just a thought........
Prolly 'cause no one wants to clean her house!:evil6:

[Kathrynsews]

Shouldn't they just list themselves as a closed club? Wouldn't that solve the problem and avoid confusion and hurt feelings?

[Barefoot]

If I showed up at a club, and there were no open spots, and no one offered to let me squeeze in, I would just leave. No harm, no foul. I sure wouldn't be offended. Why in the world would you want to push yourself into a group that isn't interested in having you join them?
:agree:

[justjim]

Prolly 'cause no one wants to clean her house!:evil6:

Good answer. I never thought about that but it prolly would be a bit much to clean your house every six weeks.

[CFrance]

Good answer. I never thought about that but it prolly would be a bit much to clean your house every six weeks.
Rully! That's far too often.

BTW, what is an "open" club? Our Three Rivers Club is closed due to room capacity, but we don't pay to use the room.

[Barefoot]

Why wouldn't you just meet at each other's home where you could have a beverage some food etc. etc. instead of a sterile environment like a recreation center.
We used to pay Mahjongg weekly, and players would take turns hosting.
The home owner provided snacks and drinks.
Then it turned into the home owner provided lunch.
Eventually, there was a mutual decision that it was a PITA to clean the house and organize lunch.
Now the games are held poolside at a Rec Centre.
So much simpler. ;)

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

My point is that if the club is "open" the club does not pay for the room, but if it is "Closed" then the are supposed to pay for the room.

I don't believe that is the case.

My understand is that any club may be opened or closed. A club may charge membership dues or have qualifications. for example, I think that you must have some kind of connection to Long Island in order to join the Long Island Club.

The only clubs that are charged for a room are clubs that are open to non Villagers. As long as a club is only open to residents only, the room is free.

[Barefoot]

...

[JoelJohnson]

Bonny (et el)

The rules are that if the club is "open" and there is room (there was) anyone with the proper skill level (she did) must be allowed to play. It is up to the club coordinator to make accommodations. There is NO COST to an open club.

If the club is a "closed" club, then they are to PAY for the room.

To avoid paying for the room by calling it an open club but not allowing someone to join is deceptive.

[perrjojo]

I have to disagree with those who think it's ok to not allow new people. How in the world would we meet new people if everyone felt that way. You may be missing out on a great new friendship.

[Wandatime]

Sounds like it is an open club but a closed table (or tables). Some people love to welcome newcomers, and would immediately get up and offer to start another table with them. These weren't those people. These people like playing with the same friends every week. Some people are friendly. Some people are not. Such is life.

[Walt.]

I don't believe that is the case.

My understand is that any club may be opened or closed. A club may charge membership dues or have qualifications. for example, I think that you must have some kind of connection to Long Island in order to join the Long Island Club.

The only clubs that are charged for a room are clubs that are open to non Villagers. As long as a club is only open to residents only, the room is free.

If all "closed" clubs had to pay rent for room use how many clubs would survive? If to not pay rent you had to allow everybody to attend (member or not) why would anyone bother joining and paying dues?
I believe WOBJr is correct.

[Marathon Man]

Sounds like it is an open club but a closed table (or tables). Some people love to welcome newcomers, and would immediately get up and offer to start another table with them. These weren't those people. These people like playing with the same friends every week. Some people are friendly. Some people are not. Such is life.

Best response on this thread.

[Bonny]

Another thing that has to be taken into account is what kind of club it is. If it's an established game group or card group, it can be very difficult to let a new person in. They may need to be at a certain level, you would have to take time away from playing to teach the game, the rules of the game, etc. Some people aren't good at teaching, some aren't good at understanding how to play.
There are some who may be good at certain games and some who aren't. Not everyone is compatible to play certain games together.
I played Mahjong for several years with my friends, but I am not that good of a player. I can't imagine walking into a group of Mahjong players who are established and maybe advanced and expect them to want me to play. Maybe they don't want to make new friends, they just want to play their game and socialize with those they know.
Now should I walk into one of the card rooms with a group of my own, I'm sure we would be more than welcome.

[Boomer]

Dear OP,

Please do not dwell on this club thing. Please do not take it personally. Just look at it like this...........

TV is the world's biggest high school.

It's crowded.

We are allllllllllll here...........

Not only the Queen Bees and Queen Bee Wannabees, but also every other version of high schooler there ever has been or ever will be.

Proceed accordingly.

You will find your way. :)

Sincerely,
Boomer

[justjim]

We used to pay Mahjongg weekly, and players would take turns hosting.
The home owner provided snacks and drinks.
Then it turned into the home owner provided lunch.
Eventually, there was a mutual decision that it was a PITA to clean the house and organize lunch.
Now the games are held poolside at a Rec Centre.
So much simpler. ;)


Yep, sounds like there should be BYOB rule and host just provide snacks. Oh, and the host should provide reasonably comfortable chairs----I can't handle those folding chairs with no back on them. Surely, it's not that big of PITA to clean the room once every several weeks. Just a thought........

[justjim]

Fact is----count me out no matter the location if I'm going to sit in a folding chair without lower back support. That will mess up my golf the following morning or evening. PITB---- just a thought.......

[Barefoot]

TV is the world's biggest high school. Not only the Queen Bees and Queen Bee Wannabees, but also every other version of high schooler there ever has been or ever will be. Proceed accordingly.
:thumbup:

[Marathon Man]

Dear OP,

Please do not dwell on this club thing. Please do not take it personally. Just look at it like this...........

TV is the world's biggest high school.

It's crowded.

We are allllllllllll here...........

Not only the Queen Bees and Queen Bee Wannabees, but also every other version of high schooler there ever has been or ever will be.

Proceed accordingly.

You will find your way. :)

Sincerely,
Boomer

Great advice :clap2:

[HimandMe]

If you are part of an established club and have many friends and you see a newcomer at the door, perhaps more shy than you or looking a little bewildered, do the kind thing. Get up introduce yourself, talk about the club for a minute so they understand and help them out. It takes so little from us and means a lot to the newcomer. Common sense and courtesy for all.

[TandHSTAR@AOL.com]

There are some people who need to know what the word "share" means. When I ran an activity my thoughts were let someone you don't know sit with you, that's how you meet new people and perhaps make new friends. When I ran a luncheon you were assigned a seat as you entered so that you can mingle. learn something new about a person. Those that only want to play with their "own" group forgot what it was like before they met each other. They still need to grow up. It sounds like kids this is my ball nd we are playing my way or no way. What a shame

[JoelJohnson]

Rully! That's far too often.

BTW, what is an "open" club? Our Three Rivers Club is closed due to room capacity, but we don't pay to use the room.

If I get there early can I get in?

[bilcon]

:sad: I agree that certain clubs must have rules, such as advanced Bridge. Open cards means open cards. If you have your own group, and don't want to include others, then go play at your own homes. If you can't fit your group, add-on a room. How many times have you gone to a Club or other activities, only to find the seats saved, or find yourself totally ignored by the group. Not always the friendliest place. The person in charge should be responsible for making new people feel welcome. I know it is a thankless job, but you volunteered to do it, so do it.

[HeyGeorge]

One of the things that has been overlooked in this conversation is workload! Running a club is a lot of work and many people don't appreciate the amount of time and effort that goes into running a club. Our club has a maximum member limit because it is a work load issue. I didn't retire to take on another full time job so you can have fun!! The percentage of people willing to help a club compared to the number of people who want join a club is disproportionately low. Now add on top of that the prima donnas that think you should be scolded or reprimanded for some imaginary infraction and you begin to understand why a club will become selective with their membership.

This thread started by one individual who is willing to complain about not getting her way, yet no where was it mentioned that this lady went to the club leader and asked what she could do to help. Yet she expects the leader to jump through hoops to accommodate her and has increased the leaders workload by now having to respond to a complaint and defend the club's position to "management". The attitude that "I'm so specials" is rampant in The Villages. I only want people with an "attitude of gratitude" to join my club. Those with an entitlement attitude don't last long.

My two cents!

[JoelJohnson]

Interesting responses. As far I can see, people didn't read the original post, or read something into it that wasn't there.
The point wasn't that she wanted impose herself on the group, it was that it was supposed to be open, but that they didn't do anything to allow and her friend to play. So was it open in name only to avoid having to pay for the room?

Our friend wanted to start a coloring club and was told that unless it was open (and in TV only residents and guests with a guest ID count) she would have to pay for the room.

[bbbbbb]

We saw one pool and club director who simply sits around and does non stop BS with his friends about real mind stretchers, BALL Games. Wow.

[Jima64]

Interesting responses. As far I can see, people didn't read the original post, or read something into it that wasn't there.
The point wasn't that she wanted impose herself on the group, it was that it was supposed to be open, but that they didn't do anything to allow and her friend to play. So was it open in name only to avoid having to pay for the room?

Our friend wanted to start a coloring club and was told that unless it was open (and in TV only residents and guests with a guest ID count) she would have to pay for the room.

after reading the original post I have to think it should have been a true open play group and not just using the rec center as a free room for personal use.

[Marathon Man]

One of the things that has been overlooked in this conversation is workload! Running a club is a lot of work and many people don't appreciate the amount of time and effort that goes into running a club. Our club has a maximum member limit because it is a work load issue. I didn't retire to take on another full time job so you can have fun!! The percentage of people willing to help a club compared to the number of people who want join a club is disproportionately low. Now add on top of that the prima donnas that think you should be scolded or reprimanded for some imaginary infraction and you begin to understand why a club will become selective with their membership.

This thread started by one individual who is willing to complain about not getting her way, yet no where was it mentioned that this lady went to the club leader and asked what she could do to help. Yet she expects the leader to jump through hoops to accommodate her and has increased the leaders workload by now having to respond to a complaint and defend the club's position to "management". The attitude that "I'm so specials" is rampant in The Villages. I only want people with an "attitude of gratitude" to join my club. Those with an entitlement attitude don't last long.

My two cents!

A little harsh.

I read nothing in the OP's comments on this that make me think they believe themselves to be entitled. They expected something, and were surprised and puzzled when something lse happened. The contacted the right people for answers, and then came to this forum to check their thinking.

Quite gentle actually when compared to some of the other threads that I have read.

[Marathon Man]

We saw one pool and club director who simply sits around and does non stop BS with his friends about real mind stretchers, BALL Games. Wow.

Uhhh - huh????

[JanetMM]

I fully understand that all clubs should be "open" to newcomers, technically they are, but in reality they are not! There is a distinct difference to being "open" and "welcoming". I found that out the hard way when a girlfriend and I just "dropped" in to a game of Scrabble, the resident players looked at us like we had three heads (not just two), they did break up a table to play with us, but they were not playing the game of scrabble we had always played!!! Uncomfortable, you bet! It's a fact of life, if you insist on breaking up a group that plays every week you are going to be very, very uncomfortable.

To avoid any problems in the future, I suggest you contact the leader of the group, explain that two of you would like to play and ask for her advice - she may have other singles looking to play.

I may be the odd man out here, but I never go to a new club without first calling the leader, whose name is always available, and asking if they have room etc. etc. I do not push myself in where I am not wanted and, therefore, will not enjoy myself. Also, if you call ahead they will be expecting you and most likely introduce you to the group!

As for six of us playing weekly - we actually do not play at one of the clubs, I used that example just to explain how we would feel if someone insisted on breaking in to our "cliquey" little group.
Madelaine, you are definitely NOT odd man out. i will be coming down this september and already have a list of clubs of interest to me including the contact info for the club to see if there are openings. i am hoping i can join some, but if no openings, maybe enough new ones to start a second one. hope to meet you all soon.

[Madelaine Amee]

Madelaine, you are definitely NOT odd man out. i will be coming down this september and already have a list of clubs of interest to me including the contact info for the club to see if there are openings. i am hoping i can join some, but if no openings, maybe enough new ones to start a second one. hope to meet you all soon.

Thanks Jane, for actually reading my post and understanding my point of view. Welcome to The Villages. It really is an incredible place to live!

Ask for help and information from anyone you meet in TV and you will be made welcome.

[jacivell]

I agree with you Erika!

[Marathon Man]

This is a good thread. Lesson learned for me - a quick call to the group contact before going is a good idea. Just to see that there is something that I should understand. Thank you Joel for getting this conversation started.

[JoelJohnson]

Thank you all that read the original and follow up posts.

The game was Pokemo (not a lot of skill needed to play), the room was not full (either by room capacity or max number of players), we've played at a friends house once with only four of us. She did talk to the leader, whom did not help. It's the kind of game that one person from two or three tables of six would have worked. My wife does NOT feel entitled to anything, she and her friend just wanted something to do on a Friday night and it sounded like fun. BTW, I doubt she'll go back, she obliviously was not welcome and she doesn't to play with unfriendly people.

There too many other clubs that welcome new people (all that I've been to so far in the past year we have lived here full time). Some clubs do have room limits, Bunco, for example can have one table of two, one table of three (a "ghost" makes up the fourth person) and rest with tables of four. But there is a fire limit number of people in the room. During peak times you have to get there early and stand in line, first come first served no "saveies".

Petunque at the Paradise outside courts is another. We have 6 courts and play with 3 to a side, but in the peak season we split the courts in have to accommodate the most people we can (even to the point we may have 4 to a team, but that makes playing very difficult and somewhat dangerous. The teams are picked at random to avoid "clicks". And all residents and quests (with ID) are welcome.

So my point is that most clubs seam to go out of their way to accept new people and to make it fair.

I'm the one that started this thread to see what others have found with clubs here in TV.

[bbbbbb]

Hi, we have found that the Rec Director is a misnomer for sure. They do not want to take an interest in any problems. Kids, very young, unsupervised, clowning up in the Pool Room tables, Kids from outside of the Villages coming to the pools for swimming, bragging about "just pee in the pool it is too far to the rest room". And a lot more, but we spoke to directors, they are not there to control anything, so it seems. One of them is so involved with bs about sports, he is on another planet. He does not even check persons coming in.

[biker1]

Why don't you call John Rohan and schedule an appointment with him to air your complaints.

Hi, we have found that the Rec Director is a misnomer for sure. They do not want to take an interest in any problems. Kids, very young, unsupervised, clowning up in the Pool Room tables, Kids from outside of the Villages coming to the pools for swimming, bragging about "just pee in the pool it is too far to the rest room". And a lot more, but we spoke to directors, they are not there to control anything, so it seems. One of them is so involved with bs about sports, he is on another planet. He does not even check persons coming in.

[JoelJohnson]

She called his office, their answer was to have the rec center director call my wife and still be of no help!

Anyway, I'm done with this thread.

[Northwoods]

She called his office, their answer was to have the rec center director call my wife and still be of no help!

Anyway, I'm done with this thread.
JoelJohnson - I agree this isn't right. I just read the Pokemo Club description in the Recreation News. I would also assume it is open to anyone who wants to play. AND... groups are formed as they arrive. If that group can reserve a room for their own "private" group/activity, we should all be able to do that. But I know from personal experience that isn't the case... it is extremely difficult to reserve a room for a "private" group. So the group you've mentioned is being deceptive.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Bonny (et el)

The rules are that if the club is "open" and there is room (there was) anyone with the proper skill level (she did) must be allowed to play. It is up to the club coordinator to make accommodations. There is NO COST to an open club.

If the club is a "closed" club, then they are to PAY for the room.

To avoid paying for the room by calling it an open club but not allowing someone to join is deceptive.

Again, that is simply not true. A club may require people to join and may also charge dues or a meeting fee. A club may be open only to members. As long as all of the members who belong to the club and attend the meetings are Villagers, there is no charge for the room.

Payment for the rooms only has to do with whether the club is open to non Villagers. If the club is open only to Villagers, in other words, only Villagers can join, then the room is free.

Some clubs have dues or require people to buy tickets in order to attend a meeting or both. These meetings are not open in the sense that anyone can just walk into a meeting. A club can establish a maximum number of members based on the room size or whatever the club leader decides. That means once the club is full, it does not have to take any additional members.

[Bonny]

Again, that is simply not true. A club may require people to join and may also charge dues or a meeting fee. A club may be open only to members. As long as all of the members who belong to the club and attend the meetings are Villagers, there is no charge for the room.

Payment for the rooms only has to do with whether the club is open to non Villagers. If the club is open only to Villagers, in other words, only Villagers can join, then the room is free.

Some clubs have dues or require people to buy tickets in order to attend a meeting or both. These meetings are not open in the sense that anyone can just walk into a meeting. A club can establish a maximum number of members based on the room size or whatever the club leader decides. That means once the club is full, it does not have to take any additional members.
I know several of these clubs and I belong to one of them.
When I was having a Christmas party for my friends in the Villages, I could have gotten the card room free. I was having to many people and entertainment for dancing so I paid to have the larger room.
Not sure where everyone is getting their information.

[sallybowron]

This is probably a group of friends and neighbors that live in Santiago that get together at a rec center because their houses aren't big enough for everyone to get together. If they have played together for a long time, they may not want to break up their groups of friends for strangers.
I'm assuming all would have been good if your wife came with her own group of 4.

Not breaking up one's group I understand, but not allowing a newbie to play...I don't

[biker1]

Exactly. My wife runs a class at the rec centers that has a minimal annual fee to cover the expenses of running the classes. She allows people to attend a few times to see if they want to join. After that, if you don't pay you cannot attend. She has never had a problem and she encourages new people to join.

Again, that is simply not true. A club may require people to join and may also charge dues or a meeting fee. A club may be open only to members. As long as all of the members who belong to the club and attend the meetings are Villagers, there is no charge for the room.

Payment for the rooms only has to do with whether the club is open to non Villagers. If the club is open only to Villagers, in other words, only Villagers can join, then the room is free.

Some clubs have dues or require people to buy tickets in order to attend a meeting or both. These meetings are not open in the sense that anyone can just walk into a meeting. A club can establish a maximum number of members based on the room size or whatever the club leader decides. That means once the club is full, it does not have to take any additional members.

[Bonny]

Not breaking up one's group I understand, but not allowing a newbie to play...I don't
Yes, I get that about allowing a newbie to play, but this was all Santiago people. This was a way for them to get with their neighbors and people that lived in Santiago.

[tallmanf]

Yes we r new to the villages also and are finding the same thing. We went to a water volleyball session and were ignored at first, then told they all have played together for a long time and made us feel like we were intruding. We went to the other side of the pool and a while later one of them came over and said we could play if we really wanted to. We were made to feel intrusive and like outsiders.
the next day we went to play badminton which was advertised newcomers welcome. We got their and they were done and when we questioned why when the schedule said they were supposed to be starting, we got a curt smart answer. Not feeling very welcomed.

[rlcooper70]

I think your wife is absolutely correct. It's plain and simple and there are no excuses. The Villages is all about inclusion. The people at Santiago missed their chance to be gracious and hospitable.

[Madelaine Amee]

I have read and reread this thread and to me it all comes back to commonsense ............... call the leader, tell them you are new to TV and ask them if there is room for you. I've done it several times, these people running these groups are usually very personable and helpful, that's why they are running a group. I have not yet met a grouch running a group ............ for one thing the group would not last too long with an unapproachable leader.

I hate to think that we shut people out, but on the other hand it would seem we do. I live in a very settled neighborhood, but over the last two years we have had neighborhood changes due to attrition, and I am sure it is very difficult for a newcomer to feel comfortable. I think it basically starts with a "good morning, how are you" and grows from there. It takes time to feel comfortable in a new location, whether it is a club or a neighborhood ............... fact of life! If you think back to when you were young and raising children, who made friends first - the kids did, then you met the Mother, and on and on and on. To me it's the cycle of life.

[graciegirl]

We saw one pool and club director who simply sits around and does non stop BS with his friends about real mind stretchers, BALL Games. Wow.

Ain't that just awful? And at the salary they are making too! :yuck::icon_wink:

[graciegirl]

///

[graciegirl]

I have read and reread this thread and to me it all comes back to commonsense ............... call the leader, tell them you are new to TV and ask them if there is room for you. I've done it several times, these people running these groups are usually very personable and helpful, that's why they are running a group. I have not yet met a grouch running a group ............ for one thing the group would not last too long with an unapproachable leader.

I hate to think that we shut people out, but on the other hand it would seem we do. I live in a very settled neighborhood, but over the last two years we have had neighborhood changes due to attrition, and I am sure it is very difficult for a newcomer to feel comfortable. I think it basically starts with a "good morning, how are you" and grows from there. It takes time to feel comfortable in a new location, whether it is a club or a neighborhood ............... fact of life! If you think back to when you were young and raising children, who made friends first - the kids did, then you met the Mother, and on and on and on. To me it's the cycle of life.

Excellent thoughts.

[Madelaine Amee]

///

Gracie: Why did you take this down, I thought it was excellent ........... loved the bit about the DAR!!!! Now you have to put it back so that people know what I am talking about.

[asianthree]

Have been to a few yoga classes (open) always informed this is an advanced group, there may not be room for your mat. I do smile when those who make you feel un welcome have much difficulty with poses, and after class i comment "bless your heart" you must be off your practice today.

[graciegirl]

Exactly. My wife runs a class at the rec centers that has a minimal annual fee to cover the expenses of running the classes. She allows people to attend a few times to see if they want to join. After that, if you don't pay you cannot attend. She has never had a problem and she encourages new people to join.


Actually. I don't think volunteers here in TV can deny membership to anyone because of fees. Or seek reimbursement for their time in any way. I could be wrong. They can and do sell supplies and sometimes at a profit. I am sure that I am like most and very much appreciate our teaching volunteers. We try to gather a cash gift a couple of times a year for anyone who wishes to anonymously contribute to a couple of wonderful women who impart knowledge and humor to us weekly.

[CFrance]

Have been to a few yoga classes (open) always informed this is an advanced group, there may not be room for your mat. I do smile when those who make you feel un welcome have much difficulty with poses, and after class i comment "bless your heart" you must be off your practice today.
So... unfriendliness begets unfriendliness?

I have found in those kind of classes, to just persevere and remain open to any friendliness. After a while people start talking to you. It happened in a very popular weight training class I joined when new to TV, and again in an aerobics class. But these types of exercise classes seem to be more open to newcomers than card/game groups that have been going on forever.

[biker1]

Actually she can. It is the same thing as events that charge a fee such as some of the weekly trivia contests - if you don't pay, you can't play. She incurres expenses to run the classes. If she was seeking reimbursement for her time she would be teaching at the Lifelong Learning College instead of volunteering at the Rec Centers.

Actually. I don't think volunteers here in TV can deny membership to anyone because of fees. Or seek reimbursement for their time in any way. I could be wrong. They can and do sell supplies and sometimes at a profit. I am sure that I am like most and very much appreciate our teaching volunteers. We try to gather a cash gift a couple of times a year for anyone who wishes to anonymously contribute to a couple of wonderful women who impart knowledge and humor to us weekly.

[Madelaine Amee]

Have been to a few yoga classes (open) always informed this is an advanced group, there may not be room for your mat. I do smile when those who make you feel un welcome have much difficulty with poses, and after class i comment "bless your heart" you must be off your practice today.

Well with Yoga classes you are talking a whole 'nother ball game. Yoga classes bring out Yoga Terrorists, even the classes you pay for! For instance ........ "Don't put your mat there, my friend goes there" or "this area is reserved for OUR GROUP" ............ "I'm saving this space". "I always put my mat in the front row".

When it comes right down to it - are you there for Yoga or are you there to chat ........... you are there for Yoga so what does it matter where you put your mat .....

We are getting very off topic ..........

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Actually. I don't think volunteers here in TV can deny membership to anyone because of fees. Or seek reimbursement for their time in any way. I could be wrong. They can and do sell supplies and sometimes at a profit. I am sure that I am like most and very much appreciate our teaching volunteers. We try to gather a cash gift a couple of times a year for anyone who wishes to anonymously contribute to a couple of wonderful women who impart knowledge and humor to us weekly.

Actually, Gracie, I believe that exact opposite it true. A fee may be charge for any of the Lifestyle Clubs, but the club leaders are not allowed to profit in any way. Any fees must be used to cover club expenses or donated to a charity. Some clubs such as trivia clubs give cash prizes. If I understand the rules correctly, (and it is very difficult to get a precise answer from the rec department) a club leader who is profiting by selling supplies etc is in violation of the rules.

The members of my club do occasionally give me small gifts but I don't profit in any other way.

[Bonny]

I belong to clubs that you have to pay. It's used for entertainment, sometimes food and decorations, supplies, etc. If you don't pay, then you can't come in and reap the benefits paid by the people who pay.

[OhioBuckeye]

Well they probably won't change anything because it's not an on going problem! But it never hurts to address it.

[robinsdw2]

This happens all the time and has happened to my wife and I on numerous occasions so we just stop trying. Very clickish here for sure.

[graciegirl]

Actually, Gracie, I believe that exact opposite it true. A fee may be charge for any of the Lifestyle Clubs, but the club leaders are not allowed to profit in any way. Any fees must be used to cover club expenses or donated to a charity. Some clubs such as trivia clubs give cash prizes. If I understand the rules correctly, (and it is very difficult to get a precise answer from the rec department) a club leader who is profiting by selling supplies etc is in violation of the rules.

The members of my club do occasionally give me small gifts but I don't profit in any other way.

You are absolutely right, and Biker, I meant no criticism.

[graciegirl]

This happens all the time and has happened to my wife and I on numerous occasions so we just stop trying. Very clickish here for sure.

We are all hurt by coolness, lack of welcome and just plain meanness. It never is right. I don't know if I would call it cliqueishness (sp?) (apparently that is not a word) but more like selfishness. I say "Self, you don't need this. Move on".

[RickeyD]

This happens all the time and has happened to my wife and I on numerous occasions so we just stop trying. Very clickish here for sure.

Relish in the fact you're not welcomed by mean and nasty (by way of actions) people. Being excluded by such people is a good thing for you, because you're not like THEM.

[cynjim]

I thought we were the friendliest home town in florida. People need to lighten up and be welcoming. #BeKindToOneAnother. I don't care if it is a group, people need to welcome newcomers, or do it in your home. when it says Open it means Open. We are know for being kind and friendly....lets not change that due to a few...

[Chasam75]

If a person goes to a club that is supposed to be open, but the people there refuse to accommodate them, when they could, doesn't that mean it's a closed club. If so shouldn't that club be made to pay for the room at the rec center?

This happened to my wife and the the director in charge of the rec center refused to intervene. She called John Rohan's office and they referred it back to the director. The director did call my wife back, it sounds like nothing is going to change.

I refrained from pointing out the club and the rec center, but will if I get enough interest, or, if she goes back there and nothing has changed.

Personally, I would have no desire to join a club that I did not feel welcome. With all of the various clubs and activities within The Villages one should certainly be able to find one to join that has members that they would enjoy socializing with and feel at home.

[asianthree]

So... unfriendliness begets unfriendliness?

I have found in those kind of classes, to just persevere and remain open to any friendliness. After a while people start talking to you. It happened in a very popular weight training class I joined when new to TV, and again in an aerobics class. But these types of exercise classes seem to be more open to newcomers than card/game groups that have been going on forever.

Not unfriendly comment, years of practice 7 days a week from a guru of India, there are days that you are off your practice. Sometimes it's concentration, multi tasking, or pose is just not obtainable at that moment. In a tight class it can be detrimental to the person next to you if you are off your practice that day. Falling on the person next to you can have lasting results for both of you.

[jnieman]

What I have done when joining a new club is to call the president of the club and ask how the club works first instead of showing up. That way they know to expect you, you have a contact person when you get there and if you need to bring other players to round out your foursome they would probably let you know at that time. I just joined a club and did exactly that. They were expecting me when I got there and introduced me around to others.