Latest LARGE study shows vitamin supplements not helpful in disease prevention.

[graciegirl]

The results of a very large study extending over several years about the use of vitamin supplements has recently been published as many of you know. It says that multivitamin supplements have not proved successful in the prevention of cancer and other diseases and in some cases taking multivitamins can be harmful.

Yesterday it was reported that taking vitamin B supplements, (moderately) can promote eye health in older people.

It also reaffirms that nutrients obtained from food are more effective to promote general health and even if our diet is not all that "healthy" our bodies do absorb what they need.

[Freeda]

What are the citations/sources of the studies referred to?

[graciegirl]

Freeda.

I typed "multivitimins not helpful" into Google and there were many responses because it has been in recent news frequently. Here is a link to an article in The New York Times this morning. (Not MY favorite paper lol) I believe that the Fred Hutchison Cancer Center on the west coast oversaw the study that was conducted in many areas across the country over several years. If I remember correctly it included more than a thousand participants.

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/02/09/study-finds-no-benefit-from-daily-multivitamin/

I am interested personally because our dear daughter had life threatening Cancer when she was 29 and survived. I also had Cancer four years ago. Helene lives with us and I am the cook of the house. I have tried to prepare almost every evening meal at home with two vegetables or a vegetable and a fruit along with the protein, not because of this study, but because that is how I was raised. It is comforting to know that it is "the right thing to do" according to the latest research. The study says that nutrients obtained from food were important in disease prevention, if I remember correctly.

Helene "makes" us all go to the exercise class at Odell Center three times a week. Now if I would just stop eating cookies..............

Kindest regards,

Gracie.

[rshoffer]

These studies need to read in their entirety to make informed decisions. Many are very flawed in design.

Anyone interested in nutritional supplementation should join the Life Extension Foundation.

You can read their monthly journal where all articles are referenced.... no hype, pure science.

go to www.lef.org

costs 75 dollars a year to join.... the monthly journal is fantastic.

[uujudy]

Latest LARGE study shows vitamin supplements not helpful in disease prevention..... It says that multivitamin supplements have not proved successful in the prevention of cancer and other diseases and in some cases taking multivitamins can be harmful....

Wait... What about rickets and scurvy?
Are the experts just ignoring the diseases that vitamin supplements do prevent?

[Barefoot]

I am personally wary of most studies.

I remember a time when most doctors routinely prescribed hormone replacement treatment for "mature" women. Because "reliable" studies had emphasized the many benefits. Then, suddenly a new study was published saying HRT could potentially increase the possibility of cancer and heart problems! Doctors dropped HRT like a hot potato!

As rshoffer pointed out, many studies are very flawed in design.

[BuckeyeNuts]

Freeda.

I typed "multivitimins not helpful" into Google and there were many responses because it has been in recent news frequently. Here is a link to an article in The New York Times this morning. (Not MY favorite paper lol) I believe that the Fred Hutchison Cancer Center on the west coast oversaw the study that was conducted in many areas across the country over several years. If I remember correctly it included more than a thousand participants.

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/02/09/study-finds-no-benefit-from-daily-multivitamin/

I am interested personally because our dear daughter had life threatening Cancer when she was 29 and survived. I also had Cancer four years ago. Helene lives with us and I am the cook of the house. I have tried to prepare almost every evening meal at home with two vegetables or a vegetable and a fruit along with the protein, not because of this study, but because that is how I was raised. It is comforting to know that it is "the right thing to do" according to the latest research. The study says that nutrients obtained from food were important in disease prevention, if I remember correctly.

Helene "makes" us all go to the exercise class at Odell Center three times a week. Now if I would just stop eating cookies..............

Kindest regards,

Gracie.

Here is my 2 cents...I will only talk about the food aspect. When cooking, you must take into account the world we live in. You cook vegetables...and serve fruits...awesome. But, these are not our Grandparents fruits and veggies anymore. The soil that these foods were grown in used to flourish with vitamins and minerals...they were grown naturally!

Now this same soil is replete of what the body needs and contaminated with chemicals and pesticides. Canned foods are pretty much a waste of time. Never eat anything from a can!

So...my suggestion...very simple...though more expensive...only eat organically grown fruits and vegetables whenever possible. They taste so much better and will pump up your immune system like nothing else.

[senior citizen]

You know you should eat your fruits and vegetables, but with a "dirty dozen" list of pesticide-contaminated produce out today and the recent e.coli outbreak linked to supposedly safer organic produce, what's a would-be healthy eater to do?
The answer from health experts -- and even the people who did the study on pesticide residue in produce -- is still the same: Eat those fruits and vegetables, but get them as clean as you can.

The importance of washing produce before eating or cooking it was driven home today by the release of a "dirty dozen" list of fruits and vegetables (http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=13818180) that tested positive for the highest concentration of pesticides.

"Pesticides are toxic. They are designed to kill things and most are not good for you" said Sonya Lunder, senior analyst at the Environmental Working Group, which released the study. The non-profit organization attempts to raise awareness about pollutants and dangerous chemicals
Apples, a staple in many refrigerators, topped the list with 98 percent testing positive for a pesticide and 92 percent testing positive for two or more pesticides. Coming in second was celery, with more than 95 percent testing positive for at least one pesticide.

Others on the list of shame include: strawberries, peaches, spinach, nectarines, grapes, sweet bell peppers, potatoes, blueberries, lettuce and kale or collard greens.

http://a.abcnews.com/images/US/gty_apples_pesticide_ll_110613_wg.jpgGetty Images
A helicopter sprays an apple orchard with pesticide in Wenatchee, Wash. Apples topped a government list of fruits and vegetables with 98 percent testing positive for a pesticide and 92 percent testing positive for two or more pesticides.


The benefits of fruits and vegetables (http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=13808127) are well known, however Environmental Working Group spokesman Alex Formuzis says the pesticides they're coated with have been linked to nervous system toxicity, cancer, hormone system disruption and IQ deficits in children.
But even though some pesticides were still found on the produce after they were washed and peeled, Formuzis said the benefits of fruits and vegetables still outweigh the problems associated with some other snack foods.

"If it's a choice between an apple and potato chips, choose the apple," he said.

Pesticides, which are regulated by the Environmental Protection Agency, are used to protect produce from bugs and also extend its supermarket shelf life.
The Alliance for Food and Farming, a trade group that opposes the new study, says consumers should keep eating the fruits and vegetables in the so-called "dirty dozen."

"Not only are farmers of fruits and vegetables meeting requirements set by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency for pesticide residues, but their crops are shown to have either no residues at all or with residues 10 times to 100 times below already stringent safety limits," said Teresa Thorne of the AFF.
The Environmental Working Group agrees that eating from the "dirty dozen" is better than not eating fruits and vegetables at all, but suggested that when possible, these items should be bought organic.

A portion of Americans do worry and choose to buy organic produce, which has long trumpeted itself as a healthier, albeit costlier alternative. However, after a deadly E.Coli outbreak linked to organic sprouts recently killed 36 and sickened 3,000 in Germany, is going organic really any safer (http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/JustOneThing/video/environmentally-friendly-pesticides-risk-health-11215304)?
According to Joan Salge Blake, a registered dietitian and spokeswoman for the American Dietetic Association, the answer is simple: Eat your fruits and vegetables, whether they're organic or not.

"I don't want people being afraid of eating mother nature's finest," she said. "Fruits and vegetables can help reduce the risk of so many diseases and fight obesity."

"Corn", though it's on your "clean" list, is likely to have pesticides built right in, by way of genetic modification. You can't wash that off! In the U.S., genetically modified ingredients are not labeled, but they ARE prohibited from organics (at least for now).Only certified organic corn is "clean", although, as the genetically modified crops contaminate the natural ones, that may soon change."Corn" (and it's many derivatives), "Soy", "Canola", "Cotton", and soon "Sugar" (beets not cane), and 'Alfalfa" (food for dairy cows and honeybees), are likely to be genetically modified if not certified organic. I put them in quotes because they are really new species, genetically distinct from the genes of both contributing organisms, and ones that wouldn't normally occur in nature.


PAGE TWO: ABC EVENING NEWS


Pesticides in Fruits and Vegetables: Are They Really Healthy?

The best guarantee for keeping produce safe is to make sure it's thoroughly washed.

The Food and Drug Administration offers several tips for cleaning both fresh and organic produce, including:

Wash fruits and vegetables under running water just before eating or cooking.


"Everyone has a job to do -- from the farmer to the person taking the produce to the store to the people selling the produce. And when you bring your produce home, you have a job to do too," Blake said.
The EWG's "Dirty Dozen":
1. Apples
2. Celery
3. Strawberries
4. Peaches
5. Spinach
6. Nectarines - imported
7. Grapes - imported
8. Sweet bell peppers
9. Potatoes
10. Blueberries - domestic
11. Lettuce
12. Kale/Collard greens
The EWG's Clean 15:
1. Onions
2. Sweet Corn
3. Pineapples
4. Avocado
5. Asparagus
6. Sweet peas
7. Mangoes
8. Eggplants
9. Cantaloupe - domestic
10. Kiwi
11. Cabbage
12. Watermelon
13. Sweet potatoes
14. Grapefruit



15. Mushrooms

[graciegirl]

The results of a very large study extending over several years about the use of vitamin supplements has recently been published as many of you know. It says that multivitamin supplements have not proved successful in the prevention of cancer and other diseases and in some cases taking multivitamins can be harmful.

Yesterday it was reported that taking vitamin B supplements, (moderately) can promote eye health in older people.

It also reaffirms that nutrients obtained from food are more effective to promote general health and even if our diet is not all that "healthy" our bodies do absorb what they need.

MY POST Quoted here is THREE YEARS OLD.

MY goodness, I might have changed my mind since then. ..lol. I am thinking about taking Krill oil.

[Villages PL]

The results of a very large study extending over several years about the use of vitamin supplements has recently been published as many of you know. It says that multivitamin supplements have not proved successful in the prevention of cancer and other diseases and in some cases taking multivitamins can be harmful.

Yesterday it was reported that taking vitamin B supplements, (moderately) can promote eye health in older people.

It also reaffirms that nutrients obtained from food are more effective to promote general health and even if our diet is not all that "healthy" our bodies do absorb what they need.

Good thread, graciegirl. It doesn't matter whether the study is 3 years old or 10 years old; I like it. Over the years there have been many many articles pointing out the harm of vitamins that were once thought to be beneficial. There was one really big article in The Wall Street Journal. If I can find it I'll give more information on it later.

What impressed me the most was a health book (not sure which one) that stated vitamins are not the same as food. For example, vitamin C is not the same as an orange, tomato or broccoli. Although those foods contain vitamin C they also contain lots of other nutrients that are balanced by nature. And it was estimated that something like 25% of the nutrients in foods are still unknown. So, it's kind of silly, in my opinion, to put much faith in multiple vitamins. I have never taken any multiple vitamins and I'm perfectly healthy at 71. (No drugs either.)

I just read in the Alzheimer's book (100 Simple Things You Can Do To Prevent Alzheimer's) that older people should not be taking a multiple vitamin containing iron and copper. Those two items greatly increase your risk for Alzheimer's. (And, by the way, what does red meat contain? A lot of iron and copper.)

Multi-vitamins are designed for people who don't like healthy foods and want to ease their conscience. They can go through the day eating junk and think, "I'm going to be okay because I took my multi-vitamins this morning."

[BarryRX]

Wait... What about rickets and scurvy?
Are the experts just ignoring the diseases that vitamin supplements do prevent?
Of course vitamins prevent diseases that are caused by vitamin deficiency. I understood Gracie to be referring to all sorts of claims made by the nutritional supplement industry that high doses of this or that prevents cancer or arthritis or colds, etc.

[asianthree]

three years old or not when you have an egd/colon they can sometimes be found still intact, see them more than you want to know

[senior citizen]

Good thread, graciegirl. It doesn't matter whether the study is 3 years old or 10 years old; I like it. Over the years there have been many many articles pointing out the harm of vitamins that were once thought to be beneficial. There was one really big article in The Wall Street Journal. If I can find it I'll give more information on it later.

What impressed me the most was a health book (not sure which one) that stated vitamins are not the same as food. For example, vitamin C is not the same as an orange, tomato or broccoli. Although those foods contain vitamin C they also contain lots of other nutrients that are balanced by nature. And it was estimated that something like 25% of the nutrients in foods are still unknown. So, it's kind of silly, in my opinion, to put much faith in multiple vitamins. I have never taken any multiple vitamins and I'm perfectly healthy at 71. (No drugs either.)

I just read in the Alzheimer's book (100 Simple Things You Can Do To Prevent Alzheimer's) that older people should not be taking a multiple vitamin containing iron and copper. Those two items greatly increase your risk for Alzheimer's. (And, by the way, what does red meat contain? A lot of iron.)

Multi-vitamins are designed for people who don't like healthy foods and want to ease their conscience. They can go through the day eating junk and think, "I'm going to be okay because I took my multi-vitamins this morning."

I agree with your last paragraph totally, but will add.....
Many near anorexic type folks who do not want to consume "calories" think that popping a vitamin will be sufficient. The vitamins' components are no way comparable to eating the whole food.

My pet peeve is seeing our own mature and elderly family members traveling with bags and bags of "supplements".......some could be overdosing on these alone. Subscribers to "Prevention Magazine", they try every new supplement out there........

I doubt if our bodies were meant to use vitamins solely as a food source.

Topic for another thread is that the "wheat" we eat today is not the wheat of old.......ditto for the meat. Our younger family members have educated us in the positive changes of buying organic whole foods, not by preaching, but by example.....and in what they've encouraged their own "little ones" to consume. Treats are saved for special occasions and nothing is totally restricted.....or that would make for a very boring existence.

We all can be proud of this younger generation of parents.
The children love their RAW veggies and gobble them up, or fresh fruit in abundance......

[shcisamax]

Yes there is a lot of hope with the new generation of parents looking further than what they read on the bottle/bag or in the advertisements. I have recently been educated as to Mosanto's mission: They are genetically engineering these food sources that perform better for profits but not necessarily for the benefit of human kind. In fact, they are already modifying food sources so they do not reseed so that farmer need to repurchase. Eventually, if they have their way, they will control the food supply.

[senior citizen]

Yes there is a lot of hope with the new generation of parents looking further than what they read on the bottle/bag or in the advertisements. I have recently been educated as to Mosanto's mission: They are genetically engineering these food sources that perform better for profits but not necessarily for the benefit of human kind. In fact, they are already modifying food sources so they do not reseed so that farmer need to repurchase. Eventually, if they have their way, they will control the food supply.

Now that would be an interesting subject, for sure.

All of the processed food boxes, etc. have such a LONG list of "additives" and such.....that in reality should NOT be there at all.

We've watched several documentaries on CORN and other such commonly used ingredients. CORN is in everything !!!

Having a family member whose parent formed and ran a HUGE agricultural pesticide/herbicide type chemical corporation that sold to farmers all over our U.S. and the world, it's interesting to see this young person SHUN totally anything "artificial" as pertains to our food source. They are meat eaters but only organically grown.

Believe it or not, young couples in our state and other states are now RAISING their own "laying hens".....chickens for the purpose of the daily egg collection........others are raising chickens for meat sources.

It's a new trend I guess.......but we've seen it in action.

We also know young (twenty somethings to thirty +) couples who are making their own cleaning products to keep their progeny safe from harmful chemicals.
Like our moms used vinegar and water to clean, etc.

[lightworker888]

Just listened to a video clip about Bill Gates partnering with Monsanto to bring GMO seeds to Third World countries. Our SIL was in Africa last year and was talking to the farmers who were saying that their whole way of life was being affected by the over growth of the seeding of the GMO seeds and they are losing their own staple food. Wonder where that will lead re health issues. Sounds like Bill Gates has unfortunately been misguided in his philanthropy. Why have so many countries banned GMO and yet North America is growing it so freely. And as our consumption of it goes down with more people refusing to buy it, then the exporting of it to the Third World goes up. Does this make sense for world health? And we wonder why the gov't refuses to support labelling of GMO ingredients. What could they be afraid of? Look for the labels that say GMO free. That is the only way that the conscious companies could get around the situation.


LW888

[shcisamax]

Here is an interesting piece of info:
We have over 100,000 horses going across the Canadian and Mexican borders to be slaughtered for human consumption and sent to Europe and Japan/China. This is mainly because of overbreeding...just like puppy mills. The EU as well as the other countries are now realizing the horses that are coming to them are filled with drugs that our FDA has labelled "Not for Human Consumption". They have now instituted restrictions which will require the horses to come with a "passport" showing all drugs from birth. This may not make a hoot of difference because the entire horse slaughter industry is based upon deceit and is dishonest at every level with forged paperwork by even the auction vets. Most horses that go to slaughter are people's pets and they have no idea their horse is going to slaughter and not to some little girl with pigtails and a desire to love their horse. They are racehorses who didn't cut it by 4 years of age. They are young, vital healthy animals...not the old, sick, abandoned...The industry leaves those on the side of the road.

Now there is a small group of people, breeders for the most part, who would like to open horse slaughter for human consumption in the US which was banned in 2007 by defunding USDA inspections. 80% of Americans do not believe in slaughtering and eating their horses. But they have managed through midnight DC finagling to get $5 million directed to USDA inspections to inspect horse meat. So far, there are still a few reasons why they haven't been able to open a horse slaughter plant but they are working very hard to make it happen. They are hoping to convince Americans that horse meat is better for them because it is leaner. What they will not tell you, or they poopoo, is the detriment of the drugs. As breeding horses for slaughter is not profitable because of how horses "fill out" , if you choose to eat horse meat, it will be eating someone's pet and its meat will be filled with drugs ranging from steroids, vaccinations, dewormers, to "bute" which is proven to cause various cancers in humans. They essentially need slaughter to get rid of their overbreeding and would like to make a larger profit here rather than send it to foreign countries. What is similarly disturbing is that the USDA has been laying off workers and closing USDA offices across the nation and yet some special interest group is getting $5 million to inspect a food supply that goes to other countries.
Everyone who cares about their tax dollars and cares about what they put in their mouths and what we are sending to others to put in their mouths should be calling their federal senators and congressmen and telling them to support the Moran amendment to defund the USDA inspectors for horse meat. It is a waste of our tax dollars and it is anything but the right thing to do. One more example of private special interest polluting the food supply to satisfy their greed.

[senior citizen]

Here is an interesting piece of info:
We have over 100,000 horses going across the Canadian and Mexican borders to be slaughtered for human consumption and sent to Europe and Japan/China. This is mainly because of overbreeding...just like puppy mills. The EU as well as the other countries are now realizing the horses that are coming to them are filled with drugs that our FDA has labelled "Not for Human Consumption". They have now instituted restrictions which will require the horses to come with a "passport" showing all drugs from birth. This may not make a hoot of difference because the entire horse slaughter industry is based upon deceit and is dishonest at every level with forged paperwork by even the auction vets. Most horses that go to slaughter are people's pets and they have no idea their horse is going to slaughter and not to some little girl with pigtails and a desire to love their horse. They are racehorses who didn't cut it by 4 years of age. They are young, vital healthy animals...not the old, sick, abandoned...The industry leaves those on the side of the road.

Now there is a small group of people, breeders for the most part, who would like to open horse slaughter for human consumption in the US which was banned in 2007 by defunding USDA inspections. 80% of Americans do not believe in slaughtering and eating their horses. But they have managed through midnight DC finagling to get $5 million directed to USDA inspections to inspect horse meat. So far, there are still a few reasons why they haven't been able to open a horse slaughter plant but they are working very hard to make it happen. They are hoping to convince Americans that horse meat is better for them because it is leaner. What they will not tell you, or they poopoo, is the detriment of the drugs. As breeding horses for slaughter is not profitable because of how horses "fill out" , if you choose to eat horse meat, it will be eating someone's pet and its meat will be filled with drugs ranging from steroids, vaccinations, dewormers, to "bute" which is proven to cause various cancers in humans. They essentially need slaughter to get rid of their overbreeding and would like to make a larger profit here rather than send it to foreign countries. What is similarly disturbing is that the USDA has been laying off workers and closing USDA offices across the nation and yet some special interest group is getting $5 million to inspect a food supply that goes to other countries.
Everyone who cares about their tax dollars and cares about what they put in their mouths and what we are sending to others to put in their mouths should be calling their federal senators and congressmen and telling them to support the Moran amendment to defund the USDA inspectors for horse meat. It is a waste of our tax dollars and it is anything but the right thing to do. One more example of private special interest polluting the food supply to satisfy their greed.

EXCELLENT POST. So sad for the horses....

[senior citizen]

Meat


Clams and mollusks have the highest concentration of natural, bioavailable B12, at 14 times the minimum dietary supplement per serving, according to the NationalInstituteofHealth's (http://www.ehow.com/way_5286271_good-food-sources-vitamin-b.html#) B12 Dietary Supplement Fact Sheet. The next best source is beef liver, followed by trout, salmon and top sirloin beef. Pork and chicken provide small amounts of B12, but have less than one-eighth as much as steak.


Cereals and Breads


Many breads and cereals contain fortified bioavailable vitaminB12 (http://www.ehow.com/way_5286271_good-food-sources-vitamin-b.html#). Often, yeast used to make bread is fortified with vitamin B12. The B12 content of breads and cereals is listed in their Nutritional Information, so you can tell if a bread or cereal has been fortified with B12 by checking the package information. Fortified breads and cereals are a good source of vitamin B12, and have more than chicken or pork.




Milk and Eggs


Yogurt is the best option to get your vitamin B12 through dairy products. Yogurt has one-quarter of the recommended daily allowance of vitamin B12.
Milk, eggs and cheese are a decent source of vitamin B12. Milk and eggs offer a better dose of B12 than both pork and chicken, but you would still have to eat 10 eggs per day to get your minimum vitamin B12 amount.


Vegan Sources of B12


You can meet your B12 needs by eating organic fresh fruits and vegetables. Mushrooms and root vegetables that have not been commercially washed contain vitamin B12.


Misconceptions


It is a common misconception that plants such as soy, spirulina and seaweed can supply the body with adequate B12. The reality is that no plant is a good source of vitamin B12.

[Joaniesmom]

I'd rather put my money into good food than into pills any day. It's better for you and tastes better. Isn't there an old Italian saying about it's better to give your money to the grocer that to the doctor? Always liked that one but can't remember it exactly. Darn!

[Villages PL]

.... not by preaching, but by example....

Good post except for your concept of "preaching". I'm not exactly sure what it is. Perhaps you could state how one would go about giving an example of not getting cancer, heart trouble, diabetes, arthritis etc.. Youngsters can observe adults eating healthy foods but they may not know the prupose unless they are told. If you tell people what will happen if they continue eating this or that, is that preaching? Was your post preaching?


Treats are saved for special occasions and nothing is restricted.....or that would make for a very boring existence.


Sounds like an opinion from someone who has cravings for unhealthy foods. I'm happy to say I don't have such cravings. From my experience, whenever you have "treats" you reinforce the need for more in the future. And that sets up a self destructive existence.

[shcisamax]

[QUOTE

I'm happy to say I don't have such cravings. From my experience, whenever you have "treats" you reinforce the need for more in the future. And that sets up a self destructive existence.[/QUOTE]

Yikes!!!! Sounds quite rigid versus balanced. lol oops. This isn't the balanced diet thread. It is the supplement thread. Hmmn. Can treats be supplements or perhaps supplements be treats?

[Villages PL]

Yikes!!!! Sounds quite rigid versus balanced. lol oops. This isn't the balanced diet thread. It is the supplement thread. Hmmn. Can treats be supplements or perhaps supplements be treats?

If something sounds "rigid" it's usually because of a lack of understanding. Just like good balance doesn't come from taking vitamins, you will also fail to get good balance by eating junk food in moderation.

[shcisamax]

If something sounds "rigid" it's usually because of a lack of understanding.

To clear up any lack of understanding:

rig·id   [rij-id] Show IPA
adjective
1.
stiff or unyielding; not pliant or flexible; hard: a rigid strip of metal.
2.
firmly fixed or set.
3.
inflexible, strict, or severe: a rigid disciplinarian; rigid rules of social behavior.



4.
exacting; thorough; rigorous: a rigid examination.
5.
so as to meet precise standards; stringent: lenses ground to rigid specifications.

[lightworker888]

Dr. Joel Wallach, a long standing expert on Nutrition and Health gave a good talk that I think really covers the subject well. Also I was thinking that the original article may have been referring to multi vitamin supplements like Once a Day which typically do not have the adequate amts of the different Vit and Mins.

Again I'm just the messenger though the info made alot of sense to me.

Have You Heard - Part 1 of 8 - YouTube


LW888

[rubicon]

Discussing the issue of vitamins can get you into as much trouble as discussing politics and religion.

I have family members whom take mega doses of vitamins. I won't comment but from all my reading over the years mega doses stress the organs and what are not used pass through. My wife and I have always and continue to eat balanced meals each day. Obviously there are some special circumstances were vitmins are beneficial

[Villages PL]

Discussing the issue of vitamins can get you into as much trouble as discussing politics and religion.

I have family members whom take mega doses of vitamins. I won't comment but from all my reading over the years mega doses stress the organs and what are not used pass through. My wife and I have always and continue to eat balanced meals each day. Obviously there are some special circumstances were vitmins are beneficial

This is just an anecdote but it illustrates what you just said about putting stress on organs: I had a cousin who was a health nut and believed in taking mega doses of vitamins. Most of them were taken separately like C, E, and soforth. He had a whole cabinet full of various kinds. Then one day he started getting pains in his midsection. When he went to the doctor it was diagnosed as liver cancer and he only lived for about another 2 weeks.

Some may be quick to point out that I can't prove it. That's true, I can't. But I have read in various books that too many vitamin supplements can be toxic. I even read that too many antioxidant supplements can bring about an imbalance, backfire, and cause problems.

Some drug company is working on a pill for resveratrol and at first I thought it was a great idea. But if it gets sold over-the-counter like a supplement, I wonder how many people will overconsume it as if it's a miracle cure for some inflammatory condition? (I know it's already sold as a supplement but it's not formulated and tested by a drug company.)

[jimbo2012]

Dr. Joel Wallach, a long standing expert on Nutrition and Health



Yes for a DOG, he's a veterinarian ...........come on.......Another wing-nut

He's only a self proclaimed expert.

Read this (http://nutra-smart.net/al.htm) about his background, scroll down a bit.

[lightworker888]

A vet first and then a medical doctor. He became a pathologist who discovered many interesting links between disease and nutritional deficit. No comment on the Quackwatch references.

Don't throw the baby out with the bath. Nuff said.

LW888

[Challenger]

Talking about vitamins and health supplements is akin to discussing politics and religion. The published materials that I have read indicate that in most cases these products are worthless,save some placebo effect. Fortunes are spent by gulible consumers on these products when appropriate diet and exercise regimens would produce better results. There now, I've said it and I am glad!!!

[rubicon]

This is just an anecdote but it illustrates what you just said about putting stress on organs: I had a cousin who was a health nut and believed in taking mega doses of vitamins. Most of them were taken separately like C, E, and soforth. He had a whole cabinet full of various kinds. Then one day he started getting pains in his midsection. When he went to the doctor it was diagnosed as liver cancer and he only lived for about another 2 weeks.

Some may be quick to point out that I can't prove it. That's true, I can't. But I have read in various books that too many vitamin supplements can be toxic. I even read that too many antioxidant supplements can bring about an imbalance, backfire, and cause problems.

Some drug company is working on a pill for resveratrol and at first I thought it was a great idea. But if it gets sold over-the-counter like a supplement, I wonder how many people will overconsume it as if it's a miracle cure for some inflammatory condition? (I know it's already sold as a supplement but it's not formulated and tested by a drug company.)

Villages PL: I have some similar stories so know where you are coming from. I believe in a balanced diet, exercise and reducing stress. I won't take vitamins, won't take aspirn etc unless I an't stand it anymore, etc

[Villages PL]

The most recent Daily Sun article I could find was Nov. 2011 by Dr. David Lipschitz. The Heading: "Data looking ironclad that supplements harm"

I'll try to give some of the highlights:

Older people may get too much iron because 1) fortification of food and 2) nutritional supplements containing iron. (not to mention the iron that comes from eating red meat)

This may cause an increased risk of cancer, heart disease and Alzheimer's. Because iron is an oxidant, it can lead to cell damage.

Study quoted: Iowa Women's Health Study

Question: How can vitamins shorten life expectancy?

Possible explanation: Vitamin supplements are too unlike vitamins and minerals found in food.

Conclusion: The best source for vitamins and minerals comes from eating food.

I found about 4 other articles warning about vitamins but I'm not sure I want to take the time to summarize all of them. It's very time consuming. :)

[Carmpat]

I am taking a vitamin supplement called Triple Action Omega-3 by Purity Products. I checked with my new FL doctor first and he said it was OK to take this as my NJ doctor said my triglycerides were quite high 170 something so she said to start taking an Omega-3 pill. I was taking a regular Omega-3 pill and it did not make a difference at all until I heard a radio commerical on this new supplement. I go on August 13 for new blood work to see if my triglycerides went down. I am hoping this supplement is doing the trick. Since taking this supplement I feel like I have more energy and it provides me with cardiovascular, brain, cholesterol and joint fuction support. After getting my results, I will post back if it did it's job. If not it only cost me $4.95 for S&H 30 day trail size. My doctor did say sometimes you do not get enough nutrients in your regular diet especially if you are not eating enough fruits and vegetables. So I will see.

[Villages PL]

Anyone who's interested can read the article by Yahoo!-searching the following headline:

Vitamin E pills raise prostate cancer risk, study suggests - USA Today

[Barefoot]

The best source for vitamins and minerals comes from eating food.


Of course, it is preferred that vitamins and minerals come from eating food. Of course. We're talking here about people who don't feel they are getting enough vitamins, minerals and calcium from food sources. In that situation, do you think it is a good idea to take a supplement? I'm especially interested in your thoughts on calcium supplements.

[jimbo2012]

Sesame Seeds
Whole roasted sesame seeds contain 989 mg of calcium per 100 grams or 99% of the RDA.
Sesame seed butter or tahini contains 426mg per 100 grams or 43% of the RDA.

Almonds
Almonds contain 367 mg per cup or 37% of the RDA.

Collard Greens
Collard greens contain 266 mg per cup or 27% of the RDA.

Garlic
Garlic contains 246 mg per cup or 25% of the RDA.

Spinach
Spinach contains 254mg per cup or 24% oof the RDA.

Soybeans
Soybeans contain 175 mg per cup or 18% of the RDA.

Swiss chard
Swiss chard contains 101 mg per cup or 10% of the RDA.
Kale Kale contains 93 mg per cup or 9% of the RDA.

Raisins
Raisins contain 82.5 mg per cup or 8% of the RDA.

Oranges
Orange slices contain 72 mg per cup or 7% of the RDA.

[Barefoot]

Almonds
Almonds contain 367 mg per cup or 37% of the RDA.

I must be missing something .....

50 almonds contain 300 calories and 15% of calcium needed.
To get 100% of RDA, you need to eat 7 times that amount.
7 times 50 almonds equals 2100 calories. :ohdear:

[uujudy]

I must be missing something .....

50 almonds contain 300 calories and 15% of calcium needed.
To get 100% of RDA, you need to eat 7 times that amount.
7 times 50 almonds equals 2100 calories. :ohdear:

You'll need those sturdy bones to hold up your new big body! lol :1rotfl:

[shcisamax]

:clap2:That was a very astute observation.

[Barefoot]

You'll need those sturdy bones to hold up your new big body! lol :1rotfl: Now that is funny!

[justjim]

Discussing the issue of vitamins can get you into as much trouble as discussing politics and religion.

I have family members whom take mega doses of vitamins. I won't comment but from all my reading over the years mega doses stress the organs and what are not used pass through. My wife and I have always and continue to eat balanced meals each day. Obviously there are some special circumstances were vitmins are beneficial

Rubicon: Good post and I agree as my reading from various sources has me thinking twice about what supplements I have been taken. However, I don't put myself in the category of ever taking mega doses of vitamins.

The September 2012 issue of Consumer Reports has an interesting article worth reading entitled "10 Surprising Dangers of Vitamins & Supplements. In recent months I have to admit that I have been re-visiting the vitamins and supplements that I have been taking.

So many studies and so much to learn and I totally agree there are times when vitamins and supplements are beneficial.

[senior citizen]

Fat-Soluble Vitamins (http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/foodnut/09315.html)

Please click on this hyperlink above and keep scrolling down to read in its entirety.....



Interesting re water soluble vitamins and fat soluble vitamins.

(This was updated on August 3, 2012.)



Too many vitamins and supplements can be too much of a good thing.

We do not take any at all, period.

[shcisamax]

Moderation. just sayin.

[uujudy]

:clap2:That was a very astute observation.

Now that is funny!

And consider this: Another way to get 100% of recommended calcium is to eat 4 CUPS of garlic a day!
"Garlic contains 246 mg per cup or 25% of the RDA."

We'll be giant-sized or stinky, but we'll have good bones. :icon_wink:

[lightworker888]

FYI re Calcium and bones, google Vivian Goldschmidt and her program "Save our Bones". Very interesting info. Be careful that your body can absorb any calcium that you take, as otherwise it will lodge in your joints etc and harden in places that won't serve you.

I have found that dietary sources of calcium work best for me, rather than through supplements, but I take at least 300-400 mg. magnesium and 2000 vit D in supplementation so that the calcium that I do get will have a chance to be absorbed. I also will use homeopathy-Mag Phos- if I feel the need for more magnesium.

I don't do dairy (except eggs daily and yogurt on occasion) so most of my calcium comes from veggies and nuts.

Old myths die hard and there are tons of them out there.

LW888

[Barefoot]

[QUOTE=uujudy;534995]
And consider this: Another way to get 100% of recommended calcium is to eat 4 CUPS of garlic a day!
"Garlic contains 246 mg per cup or 25% of the RDA."
We'll be giant-sized or stinky, but we'll have good bones. [QUOTE]

I have a visual of plus-size women with excellent bones and reeking of garlic, all line dancing at LSL. :evil6:

Sorry Jimbo, I don't mean to make light of this subject. We're all interested in better nutrition. I think I always believed the "one a day is good for you" hype. I will certainly be doing more research on the safety aspect of taking supplements.

My next-door neighbour is 84. She is healthier and has more energy than most 50 year olds. She never visits medical doctors, just a Naturopath. Kinda makes me wonder. She never takes prescription medication. She has a lot of friends, loves life, and drinks red wine every day.

[shcisamax]

Just pulled this up on the benefits of red wine:


Red wine leads to better sex. Its not surprising that the Italian researchers are the ones who discovered that women who drink wine have better sex than those who don’t drink at all. Its true, a glass or two of red wine are more than enough to increase a woman’s libido.

Red wine makes you smart. Scientists have found that red wine is good for your brain. The polyphenols in red wine affect the brain’s capacity to function and enhances your capacity for resolving complex matters. Like whether to have a bean burrito or Tuscan pizza with that Sonoma Pinot.

Red wine keeps you thin. New research from the Archives of Internal Medicine suggests that women who regularly consume moderate amounts of alcohol are less likely to gain weight than nondrinkers. Sadly, guys this applies to ladies only. It turns out that, alcohol seems to speed up only woman’s metabolism. Too bad guys, but ladies: bottoms up to keep it tight.

Red wine is a ‘wonder drug.’ An Australian study in the European Journal of Clinical Nutrition found that red wine (mostly, the resveratrol in red wine) makes your bones stronger. Its also good for your diabetes and keeps you young, not to mention making you smarter (see #2). And another study in Australia found red wine is the driving force behind health benefits that include cancer prevention and protection of the heart and brain.

AND OH NOOOOOO!!!!!!

You may not be able to get red wine in the future. Ask any vineyard owner and they’ll tell you that the narrow zones for growing winegrapes are highly sensitive to changes in climate. Recently, international experts confirmed the steady rise in global temperatures threatens vineyards around world and especially in Mediterranean regions (like Bordeaux) and sometime between 2050 and 2100 many regions may be unsuitable for winegrowing at all. Another study from Southern Oregon University found other factors that might lead to the demise of wine as we know it including scarce water supplies, changes in the balanced composition and flavor in wine grapes, changes in regional wine styles and changes in viable grape growing regions. It makes you want to cry doesn’t it?

[graciegirl]

Just pulled this up on the benefits of red wine:


Red wine leads to better sex. Its not surprising that the Italian researchers are the ones who discovered that women who drink wine have better sex than those who don’t drink at all. Its true, a glass or two of red wine are more than enough to increase a woman’s libido.

Red wine makes you smart. Scientists have found that red wine is good for your brain. The polyphenols in red wine affect the brain’s capacity to function and enhances your capacity for resolving complex matters. Like whether to have a bean burrito or Tuscan pizza with that Sonoma Pinot.

Red wine keeps you thin. New research from the Archives of Internal Medicine suggests that women who regularly consume moderate amounts of alcohol are less likely to gain weight than nondrinkers. Sadly, guys this applies to ladies only. It turns out that, alcohol seems to speed up only woman’s metabolism. Too bad guys, but ladies: bottoms up to keep it tight.

Red wine is a ‘wonder drug.’ An Australian study in the European Journal of Clinical Nutrition found that red wine (mostly, the resveratrol in red wine) makes your bones stronger. Its also good for your diabetes and keeps you young, not to mention making you smarter (see #2). And another study in Australia found red wine is the driving force behind health benefits that include cancer prevention and protection of the heart and brain.

AND OH NOOOOOO!!!!!!

You may not be able to get red wine in the future. Ask any vineyard owner and they’ll tell you that the narrow zones for growing winegrapes are highly sensitive to changes in climate. Recently, international experts confirmed the steady rise in global temperatures threatens vineyards around world and especially in Mediterranean regions (like Bordeaux) and sometime between 2050 and 2100 many regions may be unsuitable for winegrowing at all. Another study from Southern Oregon University found other factors that might lead to the demise of wine as we know it including scarce water supplies, changes in the balanced composition and flavor in wine grapes, changes in regional wine styles and changes in viable grape growing regions. It makes you want to cry doesn’t it?

Not me...Red wine always was a migraine trigger for me.

And...I found if I drank three or four glasses of any wine, I became intelligent and omnipotent. I gave it up after years of practicing drinking wine, I never got any better at it.

[shcisamax]

Just goes to show we are all uniquely put together and what works for one does not necessarily work for another.

[Villages PL]

Of course, it is preferred that vitamins and minerals come from eating food. Of course. We're talking here about people who don't feel they are getting enough vitamins, minerals and calcium from food sources. In that situation, do you think it is a good idea to take a supplement? I'm especially interested in your thoughts on calcium supplements.

You raise some good questions. But it's a complicated subject so I'll need some time to think about it.

Let me just say one thing about calcium: If a person's system is working correctly, calcium from food gets automatically regulated. If we get too much, the excess is supposed to be disposed of and if we get too little it is supposed to be conserved. But if we take large doses of calcium supplements over a long period of time, this can disrupt the mechanism and it can stop working. How large of a dose would that have to be? I don't know. And what are the consequences? You set yourself up for osteoporosis

Some would say get a diagnosis first that you have a deficiency. But even that might pose a problem. Let me give it more thought.

[senior citizen]

[QUOTE=uujudy;534995]
And consider this: Another way to get 100% of recommended calcium is to eat 4 CUPS of garlic a day!
"Garlic contains 246 mg per cup or 25% of the RDA."
We'll be giant-sized or stinky, but we'll have good bones. [QUOTE]

I have a visual of plus-size women with excellent bones and reeking of garlic, all line dancing at LSL. :evil6:

Sorry Jimbo, I don't mean to make light of this subject. We're all interested in better nutrition. I think I always believed the "one a day is good for you" hype. I will certainly be doing more research on the safety aspect of taking supplements.

My next-door neighbour is 84. She is healthier and has more energy than most 50 year olds. She never visits medical doctors, just a Naturopath. Kinda makes me wonder. She never takes prescription medication. She has a lot of friends, loves life, and drinks red wine every day.

Sounds like the old grannies of yore ...........the ones I knew anyway.
Natural is the way to go. Staying "off" the medical treadmill and NOT being obsessed with what one eats or doesn't eat.....but living a joyful life......seems to make more sense to me. Anyone with half a brain who watches the evening news and hears the pharmaceutical company "hype" about their latest drugs (the side effects of lymphoma, cancers, etc., etc., etc.) would wonder , for sure. Not to mention all the "tests" that are now no longer necessary.........or the drugs that are now involved in major recalls or class action lawsuits as having been harmful.

We knew people who worked for big pharma companies. It's a business.

Good post "Bare". We all learn as we go and have the brains to change our opinions when necessary. Nothing in this world is cast in stone.
Everything in moderation. Also, we should use our "instincts" more and not follow like sheep.

We know doctors and nurses who have told us that they WOULD NOT take chemo or radiation as it is toxic to the system and the healthy cells. Off track here, as it has nothing to do with supplements.

[graciegirl]

[quote=Barefoot;535005][QUOTE=uujudy;534995]
And consider this: Another way to get 100% of recommended calcium is to eat 4 CUPS of garlic a day!
"Garlic contains 246 mg per cup or 25% of the RDA."
We'll be giant-sized or stinky, but we'll have good bones.

Sounds like the old grannies of yore ...........the ones I knew anyway.
Natural is the way to go. Staying "off" the medical treadmill and NOT being obsessed with what one eats or doesn't eat.....but living a joyful life......seems to make more sense to me. Anyone with half a brain who watches the evening news and hears the pharmaceutical company "hype" about their latest drugs (the side effects of lymphoma, cancers, etc., etc., etc.) would wonder , for sure. Not to mention all the "tests" that are now no longer necessary.........or the drugs that are now involved in major recalls or class action lawsuits as having been harmful.

We knew people who worked for big pharma companies. It's a business.

Good post "Bare". We all learn as we go and have the brains to change our opinions when necessary. Nothing in this world is cast in stone.
Everything in moderation. Also, we should use our "instincts" more and not follow like sheep.

We know doctors and nurses who have told us that they WOULD NOT take chemo or radiation as it is toxic to the system and the healthy cells. Off track here, as it has nothing to do with supplements.

You know I respect you mightily Senior but....Your last sentence jumped out at me. Yes it sure is toxic to the system and to healthy cells, but it is all we have now. Believe me when I say they are wrong to encourage people to NOT take chemo and or radiation. Very strange to hear that any medical person would say they wouldn't choose to live.

At this time, it is ALL we have in many cases in the war against cancer and it is a life saver, hard as it is on you. It saved my life, Helene's life and seven of our family members. There will be coming a way to handle that awful disease that is not as ugly someday, probably connected to genetics but for now, a person should not make these decisions on their own . The best thing you can do if you suspect cancer is to go to a large encology group like the Moffitt center in Tampa, and take their advice.

I had to say that. It is VERY close to my heart. We are alive and kicking today because of those caustic cures.

[senior citizen]

[quote=senior citizen;535417][quote=Barefoot;535005][/COLOR]

You know I respect you mightily Seniior but....Your last sentence jumped out at me. Yes it sure is toxic to the system and to healthy cells, but it is all we have now. Believe me when I say they are wrong to encourage people to NOT take chemo and or radiation. Very strange to hear that any medical person would say they wouldn't choose to live.

At this time, it is ALL we have in many cases in the war against cancer and it is a life saver, hard as it is on you. It saved my life, Helene's life and seven of our family members. There will be coming a way to handle that awful disease that is not as ugly someday, probably connected to genetics but for now, a person should not make these decisions on their own . The best thing you can do if you suspect cancer is to go to a large encology group like the Moffitt center in Tampa, and take their advice.

I had to say that. It is VERY close to my heart. We are alive and kicking today because of those caustic cures.

You and yours were most definitely among the fortunate survivors.
God Bless you both. I was just quoting the oft repeated sentiments of local doctors and nurses (R.N.'s) who perhaps see the unfortunate outcomes as well......and the toll it takes on the patients and their families. Again, you were the lucky ones. These health care providers see it all, sad to say.....and that was their personal opinions for themselves and their families. These things were told in private conversation. I'm sure they are following their hospital's policy as far as treatment. We have a great oncology staff at our hospital........and I don't want to be negative here but we know many YOUNG women with little children who had the aggressive form of breast cancer that were not cured..........and these were all treated at Darmouth in N.H. Our daughter's best friend recently passed at age 42.......and others we know, also young.......after aggressive chemo, radiation, etc. As you've said before, there are all different types of cancers. The information is out there that for some people, the treatment is worse than the disease itself. I'm not including your personal treatment in that comment.

We also know folks who were treated at Duke University but it just "bought time". These were aggressive cancers, caught early, but not with favorable outcomes. The doctors we know are internists and the nurses are registered nurses. It's just their personal opinions; not what they practice in real life. They were referring to their own bodies should they get cancer.

We've also lost a lot of friends who had the full gamut of strong chemotherapy and radiation........their quality of life was awful for the next two years. They lost all their ability to walk, to feel things (neuropathy, etc.), got blood clots from the "ports" in their shoulder or whatever, had to constantly have blood transfusions. Just a downhill slide.

Right now my prayers are with Robin Roberts from Good Morning America who survived breast cancer/chemo and radiation five years ago only to have now a "pre leukemia" for which she needs a bone marrow transplant. However, the other day, she excused herself from the morning show as she didn't feel well and said she thinks she was going to take her vacation "early"......all along during this treatment before the bone marrow transplant, she's been coming into work.......her sister is a perfect match, so my prayers are that she will do well........however, her own doctors told her that her condition NOW was definitely CAUSED by the aggressive chemo and radiation from her breast cancer treatment five years ago.

We also have friends whose husband and father had hodgkins lymphoma when the children were little, he was treated and supposedly cured.
Not too long later, the treatment caused leukemia.......his widow was told that by his oncologist. They know the drugs are poison to the healthy cells. It's all a personal choice.

My husband's mom passed away of cancer before chemo was ever available.........she had no pain at all at the end......just kind of slipped away. Her last year was not chock full of chemo and radiation sickness. That was a long time ago obviously.....however, a world of difference from what our friends have gone through in recent years.

[graciegirl]

Chemo and radiation do not stop all cancers to be sure. Young womens breast cancer is almost always the worst form. And some cancer is so advanced when discovered that nothing can arrest it. There are many variables and cancer is really many diseases.

But when you are diagnosed, you don't have time to get a medical degree, you have to find the best medical facility and go by what they say.

When a person has a form of cancer in a stage that is irreversible then no treatment can save them but in many cases it can make it into almost a long time chronic condition with pretty liveable years to enjoy.

Fear of cancer and of death make people seek unproven alternative solutions. A neighbor diagnosed at the same time as I was with the same cancer opted to go to New Mexico to receive treatment there from a doctor who claimed to have a new way to deal with cancer. She begged me not to have chemo and radiation. You all know what I will not say out loud. She should not have chosen that route. She was very sure it was helping her but it ultimately did not and she died. She may have died with chemo and radiation, I don't know. But I feel I must tell others to trust large medical facilities who have a reputation for valid treatment of cancer.

I almost foam at the mouth when I hear people like Suzanne Sommers say not to have chemo and radiation.

[senior citizen]

Chemo and radiation do not stop all cancers to be sure. Young womens breast cancer is almost always the worst form. And some cancer is so advanced when discovered that nothing can arrest it. There are many variables and cancer is really many diseases.

But when you are diagnosed, you don't have time to get a medical degree, you have to find the best medical facility and go by what they say.

When a person has a form of cancer in a stage that is irreversible then no treatment can save them but in many cases it can make it into almost a long time chronic condition with pretty liveable years to enjoy.

I almost foam at the mouth when I hear people like Suzanne Sommers say not to have chemo and radiation.

Well, these doctors and nurses live with the disease every day at the hospital and oncology center and I assure you they are not as "ditzy" as Suzanne Sommers who may have had a mild form of the cancer which had not metastacized. I don't know her personal story, but she's still alive. I also know women in their 80's now who had ductal breast cancer when young and are still alive (the milk ducts). They did have mastectomies back then but NO chemo.

The aggressive form is just that.......aggressive. The young moms I referred to, leaving behind children under age 12, had all of the very best modern treatment and yet it still spread to their ribs, their lungs, their bones, their brains, their eyeballs, you name it.......very very sad.
Their adrenal glands, their liver and kidneys......this was AFTER radical mastectomy, reconstruction surgery of the two breasts and aggressive chemotherapy and radiation..........everyone is different obviously.

I've often wondered if the "cells" don't migrate during the reconstructive surgery???? Obviously, cancer cells are invisible to the surgeon's eye at the time of surgery. I pray for them all.

[Barefoot]

I almost foam at the mouth when I hear people like Suzanne Sommers say not to have chemo and radiation.

Gracie, I agree with your comment about Suzanne Sommers. I think she is making really irresponsible recommendations, and it's mostly for publicity. I know that if I ever heard those dreaded words, "you have cancer", I would seek out the opinions of the best medical experts available. And I would follow their recommendations.

[jimbo2012]

Agree, take all known meds treatments you can only try other methods as a secondary treatment, all under doctors care.

You may only have one chance to be wrong her way.

[senior citizen]

Agree, take all known meds treatments you can only try other methods as a secondary treatment, all under doctors care.

You may only have one chance to be wrong her way.

Everyone should definitely follow their physician's advice and also get second and third opinions if possible.

Earlier, I was merely stating the "private personal feelings and opinions" of friends and neighbors of ours who just also happen to be doctors and nurses......and who do follow the policy of their employer which would be the hospital.

I'm sure doctors get burnout after seeing so many sad outcomes no matter what they try. Even oncologists know the odds and know about the toxicity of the chemicals involved........yet they have to do their jobs.

In a life threatening moment, even those who think they would "opt out" might "opt in".......not wishing to think of the other alternative.

I think it was very honest of these doctors and nurses to be able to state their personal opinions as to what THEY WOULD DO FOR THEMSELVES and their own families..........not what they would not do to the patients.

You'd have to have been there during the various conversations to know where they were coming from. Actually, a lot of highly educated doctors are now trying more natural forms of healing, along with the old traditional ways.

We not only have older friends who are in the medical field but the younger generation, our children's age, who are new doctors......and they even know it's all about the chemicals nowadays and it's just an educated guess as far as what will work and what won't work.....not just for cancer, but for many other ailments as well.

[Villages PL]

In 2005 there was a study reported in the British Medical Journal that didn't show any reduction in fracture risk for women who took 1,000 milligrams of calcium and 800 IUs of vitamin D a day.

Another study, The Women's Health Initiative, reported that calcium and vitamin D may lower risk of hip-fracture in women over 60. However, they also reported a 17% higher risk for kidney stones. It doesn't sound very promising when they quantify the risk for kidny stones but not for hip-fracture.

[Villages PL]

Of course, it is preferred that vitamins and minerals come from eating food. Of course. We're talking here about people who don't feel they are getting enough vitamins, minerals and calcium from food sources. In that situation, do you think it is a good idea to take a supplement? I'm especially interested in your thoughts on calcium supplements.

I've done a lot of reading about calcium and bone health over the past couple of days. I checked several books including Dr. Oz to be reminded of things that have been written. And the more I read the more I am reminded that it's not so much what you should do but what you shouldn't do. What shouldn't you do? Don't eat the Standard American Diet! (SAD)

What's good for absorption of calcium:

Low intake of dietary calcium along with moderate exercise

Vitamin D

What's bad for absorption

High levels of dietary fat

Foods high in phytates

Low estrogen/testosterone levels

Low stomach acid

Refined sugar

Caffeine

Smoking

Excess salt

Alcohol

High protein diet (especially animal protein, including dairy)

High level of phosphorus (cheese, meat, soft drinks and processed foods of all kinds)

Whole books have been written on this subject so the above information doesn't cover everything. I have included what I consider to be the most important information.

[uujudy]

I was surprised by this new information about calcium deficiency, especially since the countries with the highest calcium intake also have the highest incidence of osteoporosis. I didn't know that.
Surprising Nutrient Deficiency Linked to Osteoporosis | Care2 Healthy Living (http://www.care2.com/greenliving/surprising-nutrient-deficiency-linked-to-osteoporosis.html)

[Barefoot]

I was surprised by this new information about calcium deficiency, especially since the countries with the highest calcium intake also have the highest incidence of osteoporosis. I didn't know that.
Surprising Nutrient Deficiency Linked to Osteoporosis | Care2 Healthy Living (http://www.care2.com/greenliving/surprising-nutrient-deficiency-linked-to-osteoporosis.html)

I'm sure it won't hurt anyone to increase the amount of lycopene in their diet. Are there blood tests that can be done for every mineral and vitamin to determine if we're "over or under" the recommended amount? Of course the recommended amount seems to change with every new study that is released.:confused:

[uujudy]

. . . Of course the recommended amount seems to change with every new study that is released.:confused:

That's the truth!