School days, school days, good old golden rule days....ain't what they used to be.

[Rapscallion St Croix]

My recently graduated granddaughter just finished her first week of teaching third grade in Jacksonville. She had to deal with three fist fights complete with foul language and plenty of rowdy classroom behavior. One of her students stole her wallet...she got it back. Yesterday was payday and she was welcomed to the real world of FICA and Social Security Withholding. I guess first year students get the problem gigs. Sometime down the road, she should be able to use seniority to get into a great school. She is an idealist and believes she can make a change where she is. I apologized to her for my generation's contributions to the downfall of society. She didn't get it. I guess you had to grow up in the days of the Cleavers to understand the good old days.

[jblum315]

The Cleavers was pure fiction. The 50s were nothing like Cleavers or Norman Rockwell. The 50s were women stuck at home or working for a pittance. The main difference was that just as many bad things happened but we didn't know about them

[RickeyD]

The Cleavers was pure fiction. The 50s were nothing like Cleavers or Norman Rockwell. The 50s were women stuck at home or working for a pittance. The main difference was that just as many bad things happened but we didn't know about them



I agree. My parents told me nothing of the real world, I told my kids everything. Ignorance is bliss, but not for long.

[redwitch]

While we didn't fight in the classroom, there sure were a lot of fights after school and even occasionally at recess. I wil admit we didn't use a lot of foul language (wasn't common on TV or radio back then nor was it acceptable if a female was around) nor was rowdy behavior in the classroom very acceptable, at least not in elementary school. Don't know about your schools but I know when I was in an American public school, kids knew that if they misbehaved in class, a visit to the principal and his paddle was the next thing that would happen. I'm not convinced corporal punishment is an answer but we do need to quit tying teachers' and schools' hands. Some sort of discipline is needed and just giving a kid a colored card for acting out doesn't cut it.

As to the 50's being so great, they weren't. The Cleavers and the Nelsons only existed on television. Real life wasn't that easy. Kids were molested back then, child and spousal abuse was not only common but accepted, women and minorities were relegated to subservient positions. Lynchings were common. These things just didn't make the news or, if an incident did make the news, it was usually whitewashed. The statistics on child sexual abuse in the 50s is abysmal. Sorry, with all of the problems and issues today, I'd never want to go back. It seems the 50's were really only good if you were a white, educated male (even though we kids really did have a lot fun and really didn't know nor understand a lot of what was happening in our world).

[Topspinmo]

Yep, it's gotten much better in big city schools. Give me break. The big problems started with children when day care started raising them cause mommy and daddy both had to work or daddy was nowhere to be found.

[Fraugoofy]

My recently graduated granddaughter just finished her first week of teaching third grade in Jacksonville. She had to deal with three fist fights complete with foul language and plenty of rowdy classroom behavior. One of her students stole her wallet...she got it back. Yesterday was payday and she was welcomed to the real world of FICA and Social Security Withholding. I guess first year students get the problem gigs. Sometime down the road, she should be able to use seniority to get into a great school. She is an idealist and believes she can make a change where she is. I apologized to her for my generation's contributions to the downfall of society. She didn't get it. I guess you had to grow up in the days of the Cleavers to understand the good old days.
Unless she teaches in Wisconsin, where there is no more seniority...

Sent from my SM-N910R4 using Tapatalk

[Bogie Shooter]

While we didn't fight in the classroom, there sure were a lot of fights after school and even occasionally at recess. I wil admit we didn't use a lot of foul language (wasn't common on TV or radio back then nor was it acceptable if a female was around) nor was rowdy behavior in the classroom very acceptable, at least not in elementary school. Don't know about your schools but I know when I was in an American public school, kids knew that if they misbehaved in class, a visit to the principal and his paddle was the next thing that would happen. I'm not convinced corporal punishment is an answer but we do need to quit tying teachers' and schools' hands. Some sort of discipline is needed and just giving a kid a colored card for acting out doesn't cut it.

As to the 50's being so great, they weren't. The Cleavers and the Nelsons only existed on television. Real life wasn't that easy. Kids were molested back then, child and spousal abuse was not only common but accepted, women and minorities were relegated to subservient positions. Lynchings were common. These things just didn't make the news or, if an incident did make the news, it was usually whitewashed. The statistics on child sexual abuse in the 50s is abysmal. Sorry, with all of the problems and issues today, I'd never want to go back. It seems the 50's were really only good if you were a white, educated male (even though we kids really did have a lot fun and really didn't know nor understand a lot of what was happening in our world).

Thanks for taking the time for this excellent post.

[2BNTV]

I remember when my son got his first paycheck ans said, increduously, "Dad, you won't believe how much they took out of my paycheck".

I said, yes, I would, about 33%. I was right on the money, (no pun intended). I also said, "welcome to my world". Uncle Sam will always have his hand in your back pocket.

The person who introduced me to TV daughter, was a school teacher and he constantly teased her about how easy she had it, with all her time off. She usually retorted, "I put more hours in, with the planning on lessons and grading paperwork", than you do with your job.

Teaching is a tough profession as another friend retired as early as she could, because of the grind.

Best of luck with your granddaughter.

[Topspinmo]

The Cleavers was pure fiction. The 50s were nothing like Cleavers or Norman Rockwell. The 50s were women stuck at home or working for a pittance. The main difference was that just as many bad things happened but we didn't know about them

Well, it was tv show

sorry have raise the bs flag!


So you think all Americans lived in slums and women was enslaved when they got married. Who do think lived in all those big expense houses. PEople better off the Ward cleaver. Not all woman want to work, they were prefectly happen being homemaker and raising GOOD kids. Which majority was not in bondage as some insist.

[Topspinmo]

Thanks for taking the time for this excellent post.


I disagree:popcorn:

[Nucky]

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[Cedwards38]

While we didn't fight in the classroom, there sure were a lot of fights after school and even occasionally at recess. I wil admit we didn't use a lot of foul language (wasn't common on TV or radio back then nor was it acceptable if a female was around) nor was rowdy behavior in the classroom very acceptable, at least not in elementary school. Don't know about your schools but I know when I was in an American public school, kids knew that if they misbehaved in class, a visit to the principal and his paddle was the next thing that would happen. I'm not convinced corporal punishment is an answer but we do need to quit tying teachers' and schools' hands. Some sort of discipline is needed and just giving a kid a colored card for acting out doesn't cut it.

As to the 50's being so great, they weren't. The Cleavers and the Nelsons only existed on television. Real life wasn't that easy. Kids were molested back then, child and spousal abuse was not only common but accepted, women and minorities were relegated to subservient positions. Lynchings were common. These things just didn't make the news or, if an incident did make the news, it was usually whitewashed. The statistics on child sexual abuse in the 50s is abysmal. Sorry, with all of the problems and issues today, I'd never want to go back. It seems the 50's were really only good if you were a white, educated male (even though we kids really did have a lot fun and really didn't know nor understand a lot of what was happening in our world).

Great post. And I might add about the 50's:
(1) Kids with mental and physical handicaps were simply excluded from schools and their families did the best they could.
(2) Segregation ruled, and black kids were sent to inferior schools with inferior books, teachers, and buildings. Yes, I know Brown v. Board happened in 1954 but it took decades for real implementation.
(3) Many school buildings were fire hazards waiting to happen.
(4) Teachers were not required to have four year degrees. Many teachers had one or two years of college for preparation.
(5) Schools did not recognize factors like poverty, hunger, health, etc in educating children. Well, more precisely, they recognized it, but did nothing to try to address it.

[billethkid]

While we didn't fight in the classroom, there sure were a lot of fights after school and even occasionally at recess. I wil admit we didn't use a lot of foul language (wasn't common on TV or radio back then nor was it acceptable if a female was around) nor was rowdy behavior in the classroom very acceptable, at least not in elementary school. Don't know about your schools but I know when I was in an American public school, kids knew that if they misbehaved in class, a visit to the principal and his paddle was the next thing that would happen. I'm not convinced corporal punishment is an answer but we do need to quit tying teachers' and schools' hands. Some sort of discipline is needed and just giving a kid a colored card for acting out doesn't cut it.

As to the 50's being so great, they weren't. The Cleavers and the Nelsons only existed on television. Real life wasn't that easy. Kids were molested back then, child and spousal abuse was not only common but accepted, women and minorities were relegated to subservient positions. Lynchings were common. These things just didn't make the news or, if an incident did make the news, it was usually whitewashed. The statistics on child sexual abuse in the 50s is abysmal. Sorry, with all of the problems and issues today, I'd never want to go back. It seems the 50's were really only good if you were a white, educated male (even though we kids really did have a lot fun and really didn't know nor understand a lot of what was happening in our world).

This might be more of a view of a 2000 base of knowledge, applied looking back at the 50's. A much different view of the 50's vs actually living in the 50's.....

[Schaumburger]

Great post. And I might add about the 50's:
(1) Kids with mental and physical handicaps were simply excluded from schools and their families did the best they could.
(2) Segregation ruled, and black kids were sent to inferior schools with inferior books, teachers, and buildings. Yes, I know Brown v. Board happened in 1954 but it took decades for real implementation.
(3) Many school buildings were fire hazards waiting to happen.
(4) Teachers were not required to have four year degrees. Many teachers had one or two years of college for preparation.
(5) Schools did not recognize factors like poverty, hunger, health, etc in educating children. Well, more precisely, they recognized it, but did nothing to try to address it.

As to point #3, Google "Our Lady of the Angels school fire."

On December 1, 1958, the Our Lady of the Angels School in Chicago, Illinois, was destroyed by fire. Ninety-two students and three nuns died as a result of the fire; dozens more suffered serious injuries while escaping the burning building. Investigations into the fire revealed inadequate fire protection and safety systems within the school, which contributed to the loss of life.

[JoMar]

Yep, it's gotten much better in big city schools. Give me break. The big problems started with children when day care started raising them cause mommy and daddy both had to work or daddy was nowhere to be found.

Add taking authoity away from teachers, parents not accepting responsibility for their kids (whose parents and teachers back in the 50's didn't prepare kids for real life?), the elimination of courses from curriculums that ould help them understand real world and paying teachers for time served rather than performance. Sorry, but I believe the 50's and 60's were better because personal responsibility and respect was expected. I agree racial tensions had a long way to go and while not there, progress has been made. I agree that women were in a different category but progress has been made. Progress is made when everyone wants to participate and contribute, not a lot of that going on these days.

[Topspinmo]

As to point #3, Google "Our Lady of the Angels school fire."

On December 1, 1958, the Our Lady of the Angels School in Chicago, Illinois, was destroyed by fire. Ninety-two students and three nuns died as a result of the fire; dozens more suffered serious injuries while escaping the burning building. Investigations into the fire revealed inadequate fire protection and safety systems within the school, which contributed to the loss of life.

And when was this school build? Probably in the 19 century. Kinda like driving model T and being hit by 58 Oldsmobile. Naturally th model t was built to different standard which was adequate in 1920's but in 1958 it was death trap. Same for old schools vs next generation.

[Topspinmo]

Great post. And I might add about the 50's:
(1) Kids with mental and physical handicaps were simply excluded from schools and their families did the best they could.
(2) Segregation ruled, and black kids were sent to inferior schools with inferior books, teachers, and buildings. Yes, I know Brown v. Board happened in 1954 but it took decades for real implementation.
(3) Many school buildings were fire hazards waiting to happen.
(4) Teachers were not required to have four year degrees. Many teachers had one or two years of college for preparation.
(5) Schools did not recognize factors like poverty, hunger, health, etc in educating children. Well, more precisely, they recognized it, but did nothing to try to address it.

That's her opinion.

Hind site, nature progression. It wasn't the school responsibly back then. So what your saying is all schools should be same. Then, private schools should be outlawed so all things are equal.

Life will NEVER be fair. All things will not be equal.

[Cedwards38]

That's her opinion.

Hind site, nature progression. It wasn't the school responsibly back then. So what your saying is all schools should be same. Then, private schools should be outlawed so all things are equal.

Life will NEVER be fair. All things will not be equal.

All schools should not be the same, but all schools should attempt to produce the same results, namely proficient student performance. Since schools serve different communities, with different socio-economic status, and different values, all schools will, in fact, have to be different in order to produce the same. Don't make the mistake of thinking that all private schools are the same, or that all private schools are better than all public schools. No one is advocating to closure of private schools. All schools, public or private, do not have to be equal in order to be equitable and give everyone a reasonable chance to succeed in life. That's the American Dream!

Life is NEVER fair. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't keep trying to make it so.

[manaboutown]

When I attended a public high school during the late 1950's I felt totally safe and certainly did not have to enter the buildings through metal detectors as students must now do at that same school. There was no police station in the school as there is now. Also most students attending that school graduated back then and a large percentage went on to college. That same school now graduates just under 62% of its students.

I graduated high school in in 1960. SAT scores peaked in 1965. It has been down hill ever since...

[Fredster]

Drugs were not as prevalent or readily available back in the 50's.
The family unit seemed to spend more time together,
and my parents taught me personal responsibility.
Personal responsibility is somewhat lacking these days.
In the schools I attended, there was discipline and
I received a good education because of it.

Yes there was segregation, and that had to change.
And safer schools were definitely needed, I know a survivor of
the Our Lady of the Angels tragic school fire!

One other poster mentioned women were held back,
but I new a lot of women that wanted to stay at home
and raise their children.
It just wasn't so awful to be a homemaker then.
Maybe the extra income made it easier to
keep up with those Jone's.

I think we have made progress in some areas,
but in other areas we have as a society,
paid a heavy price for our supposed progress!
It's the Yin and Yang of life!

[Fredman]

The 50's were the age of innocence. Children were not over indulged, teachers were respected and if you get spanked in school you got another one when you got home. The worse thing we did was to drink beer and smoke. Then came the 60's and all hell broke loose. :boom:

[onslowe]

Add taking authoity away from teachers, parents not accepting responsibility for their kids (whose parents and teachers back in the 50's didn't prepare kids for real life?), the elimination of courses from curriculums that ould help them understand real world and paying teachers for time served rather than performance. Sorry, but I believe the 50's and 60's were better because personal responsibility and respect was expected. I agree racial tensions had a long way to go and while not there, progress has been made. I agree that women were in a different category but progress has been made. Progress is made when everyone wants to participate and contribute, not a lot of that going on these days.

Thank you for a very sensible and honest posting. The entire nation had a structure of respect and morality. Truths were taught, and not evasively called 'only your opinion' by moral cowards.

[outlaw]

All schools should not be the same, but all schools should attempt to produce the same results, namely proficient student performance. Since schools serve different communities, with different socio-economic status, and different values, all schools will, in fact, have to be different in order to produce the same. Don't make the mistake of thinking that all private schools are the same, or that all private schools are better than all public schools. No one is advocating to closure of private schools. All schools, public or private, do not have to be equal in order to be equitable and give everyone a reasonable chance to succeed in life. That's the American Dream!

Life is NEVER fair. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't keep trying to make it so.

Until you put discipline back in schools, things will continue to deteriorate. Also school vouchers.

[redwitch]

No question we need to give teachers more authority and autonomy. Kids today are rarely educated. Teachers are forced to teach successful test-taking, no chance to really teach. Personally, I would love to see standardized tests thrown out the window. Give schools core curriculums that must be taught with electives that mean something. Go back to Socratic thinking. Teach kids to think and question and reason.

Make detention a true punishment. One school I went to had the kids on detention pick up trash in the school yards. Essays about bad behavior were frequently required. Few kids repeated detention more than twice. You don't have to physically abuse a child to come up with meaningful consequences.

Suspensions do nothing today. Expulsions just create another high school dropout.

But let's not return to the fifties. Women who want to stay home and be homemakers should be applauded and not be derided for that choice. Women who choose careers should be given the same opportunities of advancement as men. Funding for public schools should be equal. There should be no separate and unequal today. Athletic and art programs are both needed in schools. Basically, let's let schools educate their students and, yes, this means discipline is needed.

[ColdNoMore]

No question we need to give teachers more authority and autonomy. Kids today are rarely educated. Teachers are forced to teach successful test-taking, no chance to really teach. Personally, I would love to see standardized tests thrown out the window. Give schools core curriculums that must be taught with electives that mean something. Go back to Socratic thinking. Teach kids to think and question and reason.

Make detention a true punishment. One school I went to had the kids on detention pick up trash in the school yards. Essays about bad behavior were frequently required. Few kids repeated detention more than twice. You don't have to physically abuse a child to come up with meaningful consequences.

Suspensions do nothing today. Expulsions just create another high school dropout.

But let's not return to the fifties. Women who want to stay home and be homemakers should be applauded and not be derided for that choice. Women who choose careers should be given the same opportunities of advancement as men. Funding for public schools should be equal. There should be no separate and unequal today. Athletic and art programs are both needed in schools. Basically, let's let schools educate their students and, yes, this means discipline is needed.

Dead on! :thumbup:

[Topspinmo]

My, My, how the tone has changed. Today we get very little for tax dollars spent on public schools. If money mattered compared to other counties spending we should have brain surgeons out of high school.