Illegal drivers

[Topspinmo]

Ok, if it's illegal to drive car or what ever without license or insurance why is it illegal to or never seen police/ sheriff blockages checking for illegal drivers? This has nothing to do with illegal alien problem but illegally driving.

IMO this is the only way to get illegal drivers off the streets to have random stop checks. Like they do for drunk driving.

[red tail]

that is a brilliant idea! set it up on morse between del mar and Martinez. that would back up cars all the way from 466 to 27.

[dewilson58]

It's all about %'s, cost/benefit, etc.

What percentage of drivers are out there illegally??? 1%?? So you stop 1,000 cars to catch 10??

They increase the percentages with drunk driving by setting up stops on the weekends, after dark.....prime time.

IMOA

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

It might have something to do with illegal search and seizures or reasonable suspicion.

[golfing eagles]

It might have something to do with illegal search and seizures or reasonable suspicion.

I'm afraid it might have more to do with politics. Checkpoints for intoxicated drivers are permitted because the courts felt that the safety of the public trumped probable cause. They can also have checkpoints for wearing seat belts, although I fail to see the "public safety" aspect in that case. However, if you want to get a significant yield on uninsured/unlicensed drivers, you would have to set up in poor/minority areas, not Key Biscayne, and that would immediately be termed "profiling". It's no different than TSA pulling little old ladies aside while letting 20 somethings of obvious middle eastern extraction walk on through. Heaven forbid we actually look for the criminals in the places they are likely to be. It's only when there is a tragedy, like the recent hit and run, that they will search for an INDIVIDUAL, while ignoring the bigger problem

[Topspinmo]

I'm afraid it might have more to do with politics. Checkpoints for intoxicated drivers are permitted because the courts felt that the safety of the public trumped probable cause. They can also have checkpoints for wearing seat belts, although I fail to see the "public safety" aspect in that case. However, if you want to get a significant yield on uninsured/unlicensed drivers, you would have to set up in poor/minority areas, not Key Biscayne, and that would immediately be termed "profiling". It's no different than TSA pulling little old ladies aside while letting 20 somethings of obvious middle eastern extraction walk on through. Heaven forbid we actually look for the criminals in the places they are likely to be. It's only when there is a tragedy, like the recent hit and run, that they will search for an INDIVIDUAL, while ignoring the bigger problem

:bigbow:

[newkid]

With few exceptions police officers cannot arbitrarily stop vehicles without probable cause. Mere suspicion that an operator is unlicensed does not rise to the level of probable cause. There must be a clear and articulate reason for a motor vehicle stop.

[golfing eagles]

With few exceptions police officers cannot arbitrarily stop vehicles without probable cause. Mere suspicion that an operator is unlicensed does not rise to the level of probable cause. There must be a clear and articulate reason for a motor vehicle stop.

So drunk driver and no seat belt checkpoints are two of the "few exceptions"? So why not unlicensed driver checkpoints, if not political?

[ColdNoMore]

Part of The Villages lore mentions that the use of golf carts originated with drunks who had lost their driving privileges due to DUI's...so then decided to get around in carts.

Given that TV has certainly grown since then, it would be silly to think that we don't have folks who still fit that situation.

As to arbitrary stops/checkpoints, that subject can be looked upon from several angles and I don't see a 'one size fits all' answer.

While I don't want to be sharing the road with someone who is not insured or is impaired (for any reason), I also believe that a hard look should be given the number of folks who are physically not capable of driving safely due to age and/or other medical issues.

I see (and dodge) way too many people driving around TV, that in my opinion, should have had their licenses revoked a long time ago.

Maybe it's past time to require driving tests for those over a certain age?

I'm not sure what the ultimate answer is, but before one group/demographic gets singled out for being the problem...I think all factors should be taken into account. :shrug:

[biker1]

I believe that is true in many states but not FL. Here is the statute.


The 2016 Florida Statutes

Title XXIII
MOTOR VEHICLES

Chapter 322
DRIVER LICENSES

View Entire Chapter
322.15 License to be carried and exhibited on demand; fingerprint to be imprinted upon a citation.—
(1) Every licensee shall have his or her driver license, which must be fully legible with no portion of such license faded, altered, mutilated, or defaced, in his or her immediate possession at all times when operating a motor vehicle and shall present or submit the same upon the demand of a law enforcement officer or an authorized representative of the department. A licensee may present or submit a digital proof of driver license as provided in s. 322.032 in lieu of a physical driver license.
(2) Upon the failure of any person to display a driver license as required by subsection (1), the law enforcement officer or authorized representative of the department stopping the person shall require the person to imprint his or her fingerprints upon any citation issued by the officer or authorized representative, or the officer or authorized representative shall collect the fingerprints electronically.
(3) In relation to violations of subsection (1) or s. 322.03(5), persons who cannot supply proof of a valid driver license for the reason that the license was suspended for failure to comply with that citation shall be issued a suspension clearance by the clerk of the court for that citation upon payment of the applicable penalty and fee for that citation. If proof of a valid driver license is not provided to the clerk of the court within 30 days, the person’s driver license shall again be suspended for failure to comply.
(4) A violation of subsection (1) is a noncriminal traffic infraction, punishable as a nonmoving violation as provided in chapter 318.
History.—s. 27, ch. 19551, 1939; CGL 1940 Supp. 4151(641); s. 27, ch. 20451, 1941; s. 1, ch. 69-89; s. 24, ch. 73-334; s. 2, ch. 78-48; s. 17, ch. 84-359; s. 9, ch. 85-250; s. 11, ch. 86-185; s. 49, ch. 87-198; s. 38, ch. 89-282; ss. 2, 3, ch. 90-102; s. 1, ch. 94-199; s. 934, ch. 95-148; s. 54, ch. 96-350; s. 25, ch. 96-413; s. 286, ch. 99-248; s. 30, ch. 2008-176; s. 32, ch. 2014-216.


With few exceptions police officers cannot arbitrarily stop vehicles without probable cause. Mere suspicion that an operator is unlicensed does not rise to the level of probable cause. There must be a clear and articulate reason for a motor vehicle stop.

[Bogie Shooter]

Part of The Villages lore mentions that the use of golf carts originated with drunks who had lost their driving privileges due to DUI's...so then decided to get around in carts.


. :shrug:

You just made this up, right?
Golf cart use has nothing to do with this being a golf community? Right?

[Bogie Shooter]

No, not calling anyone a liar, just misleading.
You said:
"Part of The Villages lore mentions that the use of golf carts originated with drunks who had lost their driving privileges due to DUI's...so then decided to get around in carts."

I don't think that is the reason there are so many golf carts in TV.
The real reason is the TV was/is marketed as a golf cart community.


Further, asking a question about a post is not attacking the poster.

[Topspinmo]

Part of The Villages lore mentions that the use of golf carts originated with drunks who had lost their driving privileges due to DUI's...so then decided to get around in carts.

Given that TV has certainly grown since then, it would be silly to think that we don't have folks who still fit that situation.

As to arbitrary stops/checkpoints, that subject can be looked upon from several angles and I don't see a 'one size fits all' answer.

While I don't want to be sharing the road with someone who is not insured or is impaired (for any reason), I also believe that a hard look should be given the number of folks who are physically not capable of driving safely due to age and/or other medical issues.

I see (and dodge) way too many people driving around TV, that in my opinion, should have had their licenses revoked a long time ago.

Maybe it's past time to require driving tests for those over a certain age?

I'm not sure what the ultimate answer is, but before one group/demographic gets singled out for being the problem...I think all factors should be taken into account. :shrug:

This has nothing to do with golf carts.

Why.? If I can drive around illegally with no chance of getting caught, why would I take test. When you stop everybody or every 10th car or so your not singling out certain group. They just ran out of luck!

When I was working I was subject to random tests. I got random drugs tests 26 times in 20 years. At least they told me it was random. I was tested 2500% more than my coworker.

[graciegirl]

You want drivers tests for golf carts in Florida? WHAT is the point that I am missing here?

[ColdNoMore]

You want drivers tests for golf carts in Florida?
Not me.



WHAT is the point that I am missing here?

State of Florida automobile drivers licenses is what I was talking about.

[graciegirl]

I don't recall any Villages "Lore" about people drawn here because they had lost their drivers licenses from driving drunk and could then drive golf carts because they required no drivers license. . That seems to be as off the mark as the STD stories. I guess it depends who is spreading rumors and to whom and where you hear or read things. There has been a lot of incorrect information about The Villages in public media, and on Forums.

Most of what sticks in my mind is advertising The Villages as golf cart friendly which would make sense since Golf is very important to a huge majority of people moving here.

I think driving a golf cart to most needed destinations is a huge draw. It is thought to be fun and convenient and different to many people looking for a place to retire.

What percentage of folks who have lost their licenses could there be in the population who can afford to move here?

[ColdNoMore]

I don't recall any Villages "Lore" about people drawn here because they had lost their drivers licenses from driving drunk and could then drive golf carts because they required no drivers license.


I'm not the one who said it...I'm just the messenger. :shrug:

Around 1:10 on the tape.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQvom4x5MD0




Tricked-Out Golf Carts Swarm Florida Communities | WIRED (http://www.wired.com/2009/09/ff-ecars/)


Dylan Galbreath, a local deputy near the Villages who also runs a 24-hour golf cart emergency-service company, tells me, "There are people who have DUIs who can't drive a car but drive a golf cart instead."

Some folks move to the Villages because they've lost their licenses in other cities or states and don't want to give up their freedom of mobility.

[graciegirl]

I'm not the one who said it...I'm just the messenger. :shrug:

Around 1:10 on the tape.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQvom4x5MD0




Tricked-Out Golf Carts Swarm Florida Communities | WIRED (http://www.wired.com/2009/09/ff-ecars/)

These links mention but do not make the point of the "Lore" of people drawn to The Villages so that they can drive golf carts when they are drunk. I think that there are mostly thoughtful and responsible people living here.

Not too many are going to get any younger living here and only the responsible will stop driving in their concern for others. I do know several who have made that decision. I did not drive for over a year when my cataracts obscured my vision but were not "ready" to be removed as per the opthalmologist . She thought I was being over cautious but my cataracts were not clinically "ripe". I still felt I could not see well enough to drive safely at that time.

[ColdNoMore]

These links mention but do not make the point of the "Lore" of people drawn to The Villages so that they can drive golf carts when they are drunk.



Lore | Definition of Lore by Merriam-Webster (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lore)


1 lore
noun \ˈlȯr\

Definition of lore

1 archaic : something that is taught : lesson

2 : something that is learned: a : knowledge gained through study or experience b : traditional knowledge or belief

3 : a particular body of knowledge or tradition




Tricked-Out Golf Carts Swarm Florida Communities | WIRED (http://www.wired.com/2009/09/ff-ecars/)

Dylan Galbreath, a local deputy near the Villages who also runs a 24-hour golf cart emergency-service company, tells me, "There are people who have DUIs who can't drive a car but drive a golf cart instead."

[graciegirl]

Most of what sticks in my mind is advertising The Villages as golf cart friendly which would make sense since Golf is very important to a huge majority of people moving here.

I think driving a golf cart to most needed destinations is a huge draw. It is thought to be fun and convenient and different to many people looking for a place to retire.

[maureenod]

Most of what sticks in my mind is advertising The Villages as golf cart friendly which would make sense since Golf is very important to a huge majority of people moving here.

I think driving a golf cart to most needed destinations is a huge draw. It is thought to be fun and convenient and different to many people looking for a place to retire.

I do know one person that is legally blind and moved to TV because she could drive a golf cart.

[outlaw]

The pro license/DUI/seat belt checkpoints posts are indicative of how many people are willing to give up their basic right of free movement to the government for some increased sense of safety. When did Americans become so willing to be stopped and challenged by the government on whether they are breaking some law? This sounds like Germany back in the day when everyone had to show their papers. Does it have something to do with getting old and feeling vulnerable? I have never seen a forum that obsesses so much about safety; speeding, rolling through stop signs, golf cart seat belts, grandchildren driving golf carts, golf cart DUI, drinking while driving a golf cart, not using turn signals, 22 mph golf carts, safety inspections... It seems as if the older we get the more preoccupied we become regarding safety. Shouldn't it be other way; we don't have that much time left, we've had a good and long life, we don't have children to raise anymore. Now is the time to hang it all out there and live a little, take a few risks for the thrill. What's so great about outliving all your friends and relatives and dying in an assisted living facility?

[red tail]

The pro license/DUI/seat belt checkpoints posts are indicative of how many people are willing to give up their basic right of free movement to the government for some increased sense of safety. When did Americans become so willing to be stopped and challenged by the government on whether they are breaking some law? This sounds like Germany back in the day when everyone had to show their papers. Does it have something to do with getting old and feeling vulnerable? I have never seen a forum that obsesses so much about safety; speeding, rolling through stop signs, golf cart seat belts, grandchildren driving golf carts, golf cart DUI, drinking while driving a golf cart, not using turn signals, 22 mph golf carts, safety inspections... It seems as if the older we get the more preoccupied we become regarding safety. Shouldn't it be other way; we don't have that much time left, we've had a good and long life, we don't have children to raise anymore. Now is the time to hang it all out there and live a little, take a few risks for the thrill. What's so great about outliving all your friends and relatives and dying in an assisted living facility?



:clap2:

[Polar Bear]

...I have never seen a forum that obsesses so much about safety; speeding, rolling through stop signs, golf cart seat belts, grandchildren driving golf carts, golf cart DUI, drinking while driving a golf cart, not using turn signals, 22 mph golf carts, safety inspections...

Heheheh. In what other forums would all of these topics even be brought up? :)

[Bonny]

I do know one person that is legally blind and moved to TV because she could drive a golf cart.

She could use a golf cart is almost any retirement community. If she is "legally blind", why would she want to come to this gigantic place where she would struggle to find her way around.

[Bonny]

The pro license/DUI/seat belt checkpoints posts are indicative of how many people are willing to give up their basic right of free movement to the government for some increased sense of safety. When did Americans become so willing to be stopped and challenged by the government on whether they are breaking some law? This sounds like Germany back in the day when everyone had to show their papers. Does it have something to do with getting old and feeling vulnerable? I have never seen a forum that obsesses so much about safety; speeding, rolling through stop signs, golf cart seat belts, grandchildren driving golf carts, golf cart DUI, drinking while driving a golf cart, not using turn signals, 22 mph golf carts, safety inspections... It seems as if the older we get the more preoccupied we become regarding safety. Shouldn't it be other way; we don't have that much time left, we've had a good and long life, we don't have children to raise anymore. Now is the time to hang it all out there and live a little, take a few risks for the thrill. What's so great about outliving all your friends and relatives and dying in an assisted living facility?
:thumbup:

[Topspinmo]

The pro license/DUI/seat belt checkpoints posts are indicative of how many people are willing to give up their basic right of free movement to the government for some increased sense of safety. When did Americans become so willing to be stopped and challenged by the government on whether they are breaking some law? This sounds like Germany back in the day when everyone had to show their papers. Does it have something to do with getting old and feeling vulnerable? I have never seen a forum that obsesses so much about safety; speeding, rolling through stop signs, golf cart seat belts, grandchildren driving golf carts, golf cart DUI, drinking while driving a golf cart, not using turn signals, 22 mph golf carts, safety inspections... It seems as if the older we get the more preoccupied we become regarding safety. Shouldn't it be other way; we don't have that much time left, we've had a good and long life, we don't have children to raise anymore. Now is the time to hang it all out there and live a little, take a few risks for the thrill. What's so great about outliving all your friends and relatives and dying in an assisted living facility?


Nobody totally free. We have laws. " Sounds like Germany" kinda over the top don't ya think!

[MarkinMd]

You can make an investigatory traffic stop with reasonable suspicion. You do not need probable cause or proof beyond a reasonable doubt. However, you need more than mere suspicion. As is the case of laws their are always exceptions. The officer should be able to articulate his reasonable suspicion to a judge. Of course judges may have their own standards and beliefs of what reasonable suspicion is. Hence Appelant courts,lol. Clear as mud.

[biker1]

Go back and read post #10, assuming you are referring to the original post about blockades to check for valid licenses.


You can make an investigatory traffic stop with reasonable suspicion. You do not need probable cause or proof beyond a reasonable doubt. However, you need more than mere suspicion. As is the case of laws their are always exceptions. The officer should be able to articulate his reasonable suspicion to a judge. Of course judges may have their own standards and beliefs of what reasonable suspicion is. Hence Appelant courts,lol. Clear as mud.

[golfing eagles]

The pro license/DUI/seat belt checkpoints posts are indicative of how many people are willing to give up their basic right of free movement to the government for some increased sense of safety. When did Americans become so willing to be stopped and challenged by the government on whether they are breaking some law? This sounds like Germany back in the day when everyone had to show their papers. Does it have something to do with getting old and feeling vulnerable? I have never seen a forum that obsesses so much about safety; speeding, rolling through stop signs, golf cart seat belts, grandchildren driving golf carts, golf cart DUI, drinking while driving a golf cart, not using turn signals, 22 mph golf carts, safety inspections... It seems as if the older we get the more preoccupied we become regarding safety. Shouldn't it be other way; we don't have that much time left, we've had a good and long life, we don't have children to raise anymore. Now is the time to hang it all out there and live a little, take a few risks for the thrill. What's so great about outliving all your friends and relatives and dying in an assisted living facility?

I don't care if I die from a "risk" that I took. I just don't want to die from a "risk" that SOMEONE ELSE took:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Bonny]

Does anyone really feel we need check points? And where would these be set up to be effective, 441, Rolling Acres, Morse Blvd.,etc.
Seems a little over the top and not very necessary to me.

[outlaw]

Nobody totally free. We have laws. " Sounds like Germany" kinda over the top don't ya think!

Not at all. We are waiving probable cause; we have already legalized warrantless searches. More and more abuses of our freedom and rights by big government. The government openly admits to recording and archiving (via corporations) every phone call we make. There is a reason the founding fathers feared big government. They recognized that power corrupts and government always wants more power. One day you or your children will wake up to all the freedom we have relinquished, usually in the name of safety. "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."