Brownwood

[kaseydog]

Recently visited brownwood. So many stores still unrented. Can anyone shed light on this?

[Bogie Shooter]

All the other town centers went thru this...........
Patience grasshopper they will come.

[villagetinker]

I agree, with the completion of the southern build out, there should be more vendors moving in. Not sure if the 'Fenny" village will have any impact.

[joec3]

give it another year. it will happen just needs more time

[RickeyD]

Too far south IMHO. SR44 doesn't seem to be growing anytime soon either. Welcome to the other quiet side of The Villages.

[justjim]

Too far south IMHO. SR44 doesn't seem to be growing anytime soon either. Welcome to the other quiet side of The Villages.

I agree Brownwood isn't growing as fast as Lake Sumter did in the same timeframe and Brownwood was built so far south that there are no residents south of it. The new homes currently being constructed in the south east Villages (Pine Ridge, Pine Hills, LaBelle, Osceola Hills) are still a long way from Brownwood but will help Brownwood when completed. The Fenney Village will help Brownwood too.

I still look for The Villages to build more homes south of State Route 44. If for no reason other than to help their huge investment in the Brownwood complex.

[John_W]

Here's a headline from Orlando Sentinel

Lake Sumter Landing Market Square

Key West Comes To The Villages
August 4, 2004



What that headline means is, Lake Sumter Landing opened in 2004. Using LSL as an example of stores moving into a new square, Panera Bread didn't open at LSL until May 2011. That's one of the busiest restaurants and yet didn't move in until seven years after the square opened. At that rate, we'll see a Panera at Brownwood in 2019.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/G7FHYF5hauc/hqdefault.jpg

[RickeyD]

I agree Brownwood isn't growing as fast as Lake Sumter did in the same timeframe and Brownwood was built so far south that there are no residents south of it. The new homes currently being constructed in the south east Villages (Pine Ridge, Pine Hills, LaBelle, Osceola Hills) are still a long way from Brownwood but will help Brownwood when completed. The Fenney Village will help Brownwood too.

I still look for The Villages to build more homes south of State Route 44. If for no reason other than to help their huge investment in the Brownwood complex.

TV residents alone do not keep the town squares viable, rather it's the surrounding communities. Hence the reason for the huge Brownwood billboard on SR44 attempting to attract passing motorists.

[Miles42]

Not a real mix of stores or venues in any of the squares for that matter.

[karostay]

Developer control

[ColdNoMore]

Here's a headline from Orlando Sentinel

Lake Sumter Landing Market Square

Key West Comes To The Villages
August 4, 2004

What that headline means is, Lake Sumter Landing opened in 2004. Using LSL as an example of stores moving into a new square, Panera Bread didn't open at LSL until May 2011. That's one of the busiest restaurants and yet didn't move in until seven years after the square opened. At that rate, we'll see a Panera at Brownwood in 2019.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/G7FHYF5hauc/hqdefault.jpg

Wasn't there something in that part of the building, before Panera Bread moved in?

[kaseydog]

Miles42
very poor mix of stores in all the squares. One store owner in colony plaza said the developer strickly regulates store policies. Developer regulates hours of operation & developer takes a portion of owner sales or profits. Real turnoff to open a business in the villages.

[RickeyD]

Here's a headline from Orlando Sentinel



Lake Sumter Landing Market Square



Key West Comes To The Villages

August 4, 2004







What that headline means is, Lake Sumter Landing opened in 2004. Using LSL as an example of stores moving into a new square, Panera Bread didn't open at LSL until May 2011. That's one of the busiest restaurants and yet didn't move in until seven years after the square opened. At that rate, we'll see a Panera at Brownwood in 2019.



https://i.ytimg.com/vi/G7FHYF5hauc/hqdefault.jpg



Faux Key West is far more attractive than Six gun City Brownwood. More akin to deputized children carrying around 6 shooters hunting down the stage coach bandits.


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[asianthree]

Wasn't there something in that part of the building, before Panera Bread moved in?

Yes it was run by TV. And next door was southern lifestyle

[Mikeod]

Miles42
One store owner in colony plaza said the developer strickly regulates store policies. Developer regulates hours of operation & developer takes a portion of owner sales or profits. Real turnoff to open a business in the villages.
:sigh:
This comes up periodically. Yet, there are few empty places in Spanish Springs or Lake Sumter. Sure, Brownwood has empty storefronts. Colony looks pretty full with new businesses coming. And most there have been there a while. When I moved here, Lake Sumter was only a few years old and it had empty storefronts, too. Sonny's place was an empty lot. Winn-Dixie and the nearby building were an empty lot. No Fross and Fross. Most of the buildings between TooJays and the square were empty. IIRC, the spot occupied by RedSauce was empty. Every retail development they have put up has eventually filled in.

Have business failed or left? Sure. Show me where that doesn't happen anywhere. It can't all be due to strangling rents or policies.

[outlaw]

The developer sells 250 new homes per month. He should be able to fill his commercial buildings when they are built. Not 7 years later. But let's hear more how this is all part of the brilliant business plan. That keeping buildings vacant for 7 years is actually brilliant business strategy.

[RickeyD]

The developer sells 250 new homes per month. He should be able to fill his commercial buildings when they are built. Not 7 years later. But let's hear more how this is all part of the brilliant business plan. That keeping buildings vacant for 7 years is actually brilliant business strategy.



Maybe it's cheaper to age a property naturally rather than the faux Disney look.

[graciegirl]

The developer sells 250 new homes per month. He should be able to fill his commercial buildings when they are built. Not 7 years later. But let's hear more how this is all part of the brilliant business plan. That keeping buildings vacant for 7 years is actually brilliant business strategy.

There was a very successful restaurant in the spot now leased by Panera Bread. It wasn't seven years vacant.

In fact I liked it better. We were given a free meal there on our Life Style Visit. Someone will remember the name and post it.

[graciegirl]

Developer control

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/observation-136485/?highlight=Commercial+real+estate+lease

[outlaw]

Maybe it's cheaper to age a property naturally rather than the faux Disney look.

That's probably it. I've always said, better to keep rental property vacant than to generate income and owe taxes.

[Kelsie52]

[/COLOR][/B]
There was a very successful restaurant in the spot now leased by Panera Bread. It wasn't seven years vacant.

In fact I liked it better. We were given a free meal there on our Life Style Visit. Someone will remember the name and post it.

The restaurant was The Veranda. We enjoyed it.

[outlaw]

[/COLOR][/B]
There was a very successful restaurant in the spot now leased by Panera Bread. It wasn't seven years vacant.

In fact I liked it better. We were given a free meal there on our Life Style Visit. Someone will remember the name and post it.

It was "very successful", yet it closed...maybe the lease terms were too onerous? No? It was probably mismanaged.

[Mikeod]

It was "very successful", yet it closed...maybe the lease terms were too onerous? No? It was probably mismanaged.

It was owned by the developer, and closed as part of the move to get out of the restaurant business, as he did with Lighthouse and others.

[outlaw]

It was owned by the developer, and closed as part of the move to get out of the restaurant business, as he did with Lighthouse and others.

So you're saying, the developer, a world class business family, shut down a very successful business because they wanted to get out of the restaurant business? That's hard to believe.

[Bonny]

So you're saying, the developer, a world class business family, shut down a very successful business because they wanted to get out of the restaurant business? That's hard to believe.
They have never wanted to be in the restaurant business. They are developers. All restaurants, they got them running then sold them.

[dbussone]

So you're saying, the developer, a world class business family, shut down a very successful business because they wanted to get out of the restaurant business? That's hard to believe.



Perhaps it wasn't as profitable as the other hundred businesses they own. It isn't uncommon for an organization to spin off or shutter a portion of its business that is a distraction from its core operations.


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[Kelsie52]

So you're saying, the developer, a world class business family, shut down a very successful business because they wanted to get out of the restaurant business? That's hard to believe.

Most everything they run is successful. It is because they know how to change when needed. Why would they close down this restaurant ? because the realized they could get much more rent for the property then they could generate in the food business.

Seems they were correct and we are better served by the new business .

[graciegirl]

So you're saying, the developer, a world class business family, shut down a very successful business because they wanted to get out of the restaurant business? That's hard to believe.


That appears to be the developer's business plan. They owned and ran several restaurants, Southern Life Style Furniture, The Entertainment Department and The Villages Transportation. The Restaurants included The Lighthouse, Cane Garden, and The Veranda in my memory.

These businesses were established for the convenience of people living in The Villages and of course to turn a profit. They were run very well under the Morse management. That appears to be one of the successful components of The Villages that needed businesses were established which sets this development apart from other like developments across the country.

They were established and in the case of some of the restaurants and the entertainment department and the paper then sold to the person who managed it. It appears that it was not in their long term plan to keep them, but they still own the property which is leased to these businesses.

The Veranda was a wonderful restaurant, really much nicer than Panera, in my opinion. They did not fail, any of these businesses. I think that was the plan for The Villages Health System as well, but sadly it is failing. At least I think it was established to fill a need. When we moved here, all of the decent doctors had waiting lists. We were left with shady quacks in many cases who were not board certified and had other not good things in their past. They tried. It appears that health care is not an easy endeavor.

[Bonny]

That appears to be the developer's business plan. They owned and ran several restaurants, Southern Life Style Furniture, The Entertainment Department and The Villages Transportation. The Restaurants included The Lighthouse, Cane Garden, and The Veranda in my memory.

These businesses were established for the convenience of people living in The Villages and of course to turn a profit. They were run very well under the Morse management. That appears to be one of the successful components of The Villages that needed businesses were established which sets this development apart from other like developments across the country.

They were established and in the case of some of the restaurants and the entertainment department and the paper then sold to the person who managed it. It appears that it was not in their long term plan to keep them, but they still own the property which is leased to these businesses.

The Veranda was a wonderful restaurant, really much nicer than Panera, in my opinion. They did not fail, any of these businesses. I think that was the plan for The Villages Health System as well, but sadly it is failing. At least I think it was established to fill a need. When we moved here, all of the decent doctors had waiting lists. We were left with shady quacks in many cases who were not board certified and had other not good things in their past. They tried. It appears that health care is not an easy endeavor.
And, of course, one cannot forget restaurants such as Chula Vista, Santiago, Silver Lake, Cafe Ole' and Augustines. We loved those restaurants.

[waterlily]

Retail real estate is a difficult business these days. We all point and click on Amazon and all the other internet shopping sites. Everyone wants the best price. Brick & Mortar stores are falling by the wayside everywhere. The Villages may be a bubble, but the residents are educated, intelligent, and certainly shop around. Malls are closing everywhere, strip centers are struggling, Macy's and Sears are closing stores by the 100's.
I have spoken with "the developer" about leasing property to open a business, and the terms were no different than anywhere else. Yes, they were looking for a percentage of top line sales, all GOOD retail centers do. You don't build a development like Brownwood without a long range plan. But it is a long range plan. It would not be prudent for any business person to disclose the long range plan as it would invite speculators that would cut into the profits.
I think it will just take many more years for the right type of business to locate to the squares. Foot traffic and browsers are one thing, but ringing the cash register pays the bills.

[shumbapie]

So you're saying, the developer, a world class business family, shut down a very successful business because they wanted to get out of the restaurant business? That's hard to believe.

It's not hard to believe if their time, money and energy could generate a higher rate of return in another business like building homes...

[Bonny]

It's not hard to believe if their time, money and energy could generate a higher rate of return in another business like building homes...
Yep, they only want to develop. They definitely aren't restauranteurs.

[justjim]

Getting back to Brownwood...... It is a very unique place. For example, the Barnstorm Theater. I doubt you will see anything like the lobby of the theater anywhere. The entrance to Brownwood with the cattle etc. Brownwood is different and no expense was spared. It's an attraction in itself and the Developer has made a "statement" here. I don't know this but have the feeling Brownwood has Gary Morris written all over it.

In our travels to other retirement communities around the country, it's the unique commercial properties that separates The Villages from other retirement communities. Their business model has been very successful and I suspect Brownwood will be too.

[perrjojo]

Faux Key West is far more attractive than Six gun City Brownwood. More akin to deputized children carrying around 6 shooters hunting down the stage coach bandits.


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I guess you aren't from the southwest! Most of those folks like it just fine. :smiley::smiley:

[perrjojo]

[/COLOR][/B]
There was a very successful restaurant in the spot now leased by Panera Bread. It wasn't seven years vacant.

In fact I liked it better. We were given a free meal there on our Life Style Visit. Someone will remember the name and post it.
I loved that place. It was more like a tea room.

[2BNTV]

Retail real estate is a difficult business these days. We all point and click on Amazon and all the other internet shopping sites. Everyone wants the best price. Brick & Mortar stores are falling by the wayside everywhere. The Villages may be a bubble, but the residents are educated, intelligent, and certainly shop around. Malls are closing everywhere, strip centers are struggling, Macy's and Sears are closing stores by the 100's.
I have spoken with "the developer" about leasing property to open a business, and the terms were no different than anywhere else. Yes, they were looking for a percentage of top line sales, all GOOD retail centers do. You don't build a development like Brownwood without a long range plan. But it is a long range plan. It would not be prudent for any business person to disclose the long range plan as it would invite speculators that would cut into the profits.
I think it will just take many more years for the right type of business to locate to the squares. Foot traffic and browsers are one thing, but ringing the cash register pays the bills.

Great post! :bigbow:

I've read the developer tries rent to businesses that they consider to have a great chance of being successful.

I am one is is very well please as to how the Morse family runs TV and no one can argue with their successful formula but I"m sure some will bring up the businesses that have been closed.

Businesses fail for a variety of reasons and it's not the developers fault. IMHO

[Villageswimmer]

Yep, they only want to develop. They definitely aren't restauranteurs.

weren't they in the restaurant business back in Michigan before moving to FL? Maybe I got that wrong.

[msendo]

When they first started building in the town square, there was very little going on. What stands out in my mind was a trailer set up to serve food. It sort of reminded me of being at a local county fair. With subsequent visits to TV, the streets expanded with businesses, though not fast enough for some. Nevertheless, I was satisfied with the progress. The developer has done a beautiful job in planning everything in TV, so far. I have faith that the same will apply to Brownwood. For this reason, I chose to buy there. Brownwood, IMHO, is a great work in progress.
:thumbup:

[outlaw]

weren't they in the restaurant business back in Michigan before moving to FL? Maybe I got that wrong.

You are correct. Oh well. Maybe they just got tired of making money in the restaurant business?

[photo1902]

Getting back to Brownwood...... It is a very unique place. For example, the Barnstorm Theater. I doubt you will see anything like the lobby of the theater anywhere. The entrance to Brownwood with the cattle etc. Brownwood is different and no expense was spared. It's an attraction in itself and the Developer has made a "statement" here. I don't know this but have the feeling Brownwood has Gary Morris written all over it.

In our travels to other retirement communities around the country, it's the unique commercial properties that separates The Villages from other retirement communities. Their business model has been very successful and I suspect Brownwood will be too.

With the addition of Fenney, not to mention the 14 acres of land which was recently rezoned for residential units at 44 and Buena Vista, I think Brownwood will do just fine.

[Bonny]

weren't they in the restaurant business back in Michigan before moving to FL? Maybe I got that wrong.
I believe Gary was in advertising in Chicago before he came to help promote the Villages.
The restaurant & Brownwood was pretty much Mary Louise.

[graciegirl]

THE VILLAGES – HAROLD SCHWARTZ & SON, H GARY MORSE | ByDuncan.com (http://www.byduncan.com/2014/03/14/harold-schwartz-millionaire-h-gary-morse-billionaire/)

[kstew43]

weren't they in the restaurant business back in Michigan before moving to FL? Maybe I got that wrong.

you are correct.....they used to sell jams and jellys.....very small scale and very little profit.......

so says our realtor....anyway

[Bonny]

you are correct.....they used to sell jams and jellys.....very small scale and very little profit.......

so says our realtor....anyway
They still do. They sell jams, mustard, sauces, etc. You can also have lunch at Mary Lou's Tea Room. Love the Country Store.

[The Buckeyes]

Getting back to Brownwood...... It is a very unique place. For example, the Barnstorm Theater. I doubt you will see anything like the lobby of the theater anywhere. The entrance to Brownwood with the cattle etc. Brownwood is different and no expense was spared. It's an attraction in itself and the Developer has made a "statement" here. I don't know this but have the feeling Brownwood has Gary Morris written all over it.

In our travels to other retirement communities around the country, it's the unique commercial properties that separates The Villages from other retirement communities. Their business model has been very successful and I suspect Brownwood will be too.
I believe Brownwood will be 4 yrs old this fall. The theatre is excellent except that if I want to see Jason Bourne or Hillary's America I need to go to Lake Sumter Landing.

[bbbbbb]

Recently visited brownwood. So many stores still unrented. Can anyone shed light on this?


Have you head the term Overbuild? Probably so.


bbbbbb :loco:

[NYGUY]

Have you head the term Overbuild? Probably so.


bbbbbb :loco:

Then again, probably not so!!

[Bogie Shooter]

I believe Brownwood will be 4 yrs old this fall. The theatre is excellent except that if I want to see Jason Bourne or Hillary's America I need to go to Lake Sumter Landing.

Just pack a lunch....................:wave:

[Two Bills]

Brownwood does not have the atmosphere of the other two squares, and the stand terraced seating gives it a cheap stadium feel.
As for the shops. Why pay those prices? JMO.

[dewilson58]

I'm enjoying the slow growth/expansion/development of BW. The BW threads are always entertaining with speculation and conspiracy theories. The square was packed last night, somebody likes the seating and environment.

Oh well to those who don't like BW.

:coolsmiley:

[VApeople]

Brownwood does not have the atmosphere of the other two squares

I completely agree. We go to Panera at LSL quite often. After the meal, we get an iced coffee and sit outside at the sales center, and we are always amazed how beautiful the place is. Yeah, truly amazed.

At Brownwood, we also sit outside at the sales center, but it is just not as nice. There is less vegetation and the carts driving by are much closer.

[Bogie Shooter]

I completely agree. We go to Panera at LSL quite often. After the meal, we get an iced coffee and sit outside at the sales center, and we are always amazed how beautiful the place is. Yeah, truly amazed.

At Brownwood, we also sit outside at the sales center, but it is just not as nice. There is less vegetation and the carts driving by are much closer.

Once upon a time LSL also did not have that atmosphere..........give it a little time.

[The Buckeyes]

Brownwood does not have the atmosphere of the other two squares, and the stand terraced seating gives it a cheap stadium feel.
As for the shops. Why pay those prices? JMO.

You know what else gives a cheap feel....plastic chairs at the other squares. Each square is unique.

[pooh]

Funny how individuals are drawn to one square or another. Each square is designed with a different look, theme. My sister visits and loves Spanish Springs, I live extremely close to LSL, but love the look and feel of Brownwood. Not many of us were so fortunate to have a town square, let alone three of them where we lived previously.

The area has changed so very much in the 10 years we've lived here.....three squares, lots of stores, shops, more rec centers, more golf courses, theaters.....and all in a relatively short time to serve a growing community. In the 32 years I lived in CA, never experienced such benefits for community residents.

It's easy to forget that we might have not had so much near by where we lived prior to moving to TV, and golf carts weren't necessarily in the picture. I love this community, I enjoy each square even though I have a favorite, I enjoy the beauty of the area, the proximity of the attractions, how much my kids and grandkids enjoy where Grandma and Grandpa live, and much more. This is my hometown, I chose to live here and enjoy the uniqueness and beauty of The Villages and the surrounding areas.

[dewilson58]

Funny how individuals are drawn to one square or another. Each square is designed with a different look, theme. My sister visits and loves Spanish Springs, I live extremely close to LSL, but love the look and feel of Brownwood. Not many of us were so fortunate to have a town square, let alone three of them where we lived previously.

The area has changed so very much in the 10 years we've lived here.....three squares, lots of stores, shops, more rec centers, more golf courses, theaters.....and all in a relatively short time to serve a growing community. In the 32 years I lived in CA, never experienced such benefits for community residents.

It's easy to forget that were might have not had so much near by where we lived prior to moving to TV, and golf carts weren't necessarily in the picture. I love this community, I enjoy each square even though I have a favorite, I enjoy the beauty of the area, the proximity of the attractions, how much my kids and grandkids enjoy where Grandma and Grandpa live, and much more. This is my hometown, I chose to live here and enjoy the uniqueness and beauty of The Villages and the surrounding areas.



:clap2:

[Kup Kake]

Not a good comparison unless the Panera Bread location was an unoccupied store from 2004 through 2011. Perhaps the reason for so many empty Brownwood stores is because the rents are too high and the monthly "royalty fee" to the developer is too high, also.

[graciegirl]

Not a good comparison unless the Panera Bread location was an unoccupied store from 2004 through 2011. Perhaps the reason for so many empty Brownwood stores is because the rents are too high and the monthly "royalty fee" to the developer is too high, also.

ALL MALLS, all tourist destinations with high traffic have the same kind of Percentage rent lease agreement. It is not just here. It isn't a "royalty fee". Every single business who chooses to rent property is aware of this, no one is holding a gun to their head. This is just another urban legend recirculating again and promoted by those who either dislike the developers because they are so successful, have some stake in competitive areas, are jealous they don't live here, or are just misinformed.

This will help explain how this type of Commercial lease works.
How Percentage Rent Works in a Commercial Real Estate Lease (http://www.propertymetrics.com/blog/2014/01/16/percentage-rent/)

I am not a real estate agent, never have been and would NEVER be one. I don't know the Morses, but I love this place and get danged tired of the misinformation and the "greedy developer" rhetoric.

[graciegirl]

Funny how individuals are drawn to one square or another. Each square is designed with a different look, theme. My sister visits and loves Spanish Springs, I live extremely close to LSL, but love the look and feel of Brownwood. Not many of us were so fortunate to have a town square, let alone three of them where we lived previously.

The area has changed so very much in the 10 years we've lived here.....three squares, lots of stores, shops, more rec centers, more golf courses, theaters.....and all in a relatively short time to serve a growing community. In the 32 years I lived in CA, never experienced such benefits for community residents.

It's easy to forget that we might have not had so much near by where we lived prior to moving to TV, and golf carts weren't necessarily in the picture. I love this community, I enjoy each square even though I have a favorite, I enjoy the beauty of the area, the proximity of the attractions, how much my kids and grandkids enjoy where Grandma and Grandpa live, and much more. This is my hometown, I chose to live here and enjoy the uniqueness and beauty of The Villages and the surrounding areas.

Well said.

[Bogie Shooter]

Not a good comparison unless the Panera Bread location was an unoccupied store from 2004 through 2011. Perhaps the reason for so many empty Brownwood stores is because the rents are too high and the monthly "royalty fee" to the developer is too high, also.

Really, based on what?

[Bonny]

Not a good comparison unless the Panera Bread location was an unoccupied store from 2004 through 2011. Perhaps the reason for so many empty Brownwood stores is because the rents are too high and the monthly "royalty fee" to the developer is too high, also.
Not sure where you got the wording "royalty fee" from. This is no different than anywhere else. I had many family members and friends in Michigan who owned businesses that paid rent and a percentage. My sister works for a developer and that's the way they do it. That's the way the business is.

[golfing eagles]

Not a good comparison unless the Panera Bread location was an unoccupied store from 2004 through 2011. Perhaps the reason for so many empty Brownwood stores is because the rents are too high and the monthly "royalty fee" to the developer is too high, also.

In that case, do you have an explanation for the 90+% occupancy in the other town squares, especially in the economy of the last 8 years?

[maureenod]

Not a good comparison unless the Panera Bread location was an unoccupied store from 2004 through 2011. Perhaps the reason for so many empty Brownwood stores is because the rents are too high and the monthly "royalty fee" to the developer is too high, also.

Small shops all across the country are struggling to survive. They can't compete with big business. One has to drive to Lowes to get nails. Now, with online sales, small businesses will soon be a thing of the past.

[nhenson]

I would love to see a new Curves franchise open in Brownwood as we are in the Collier village and it's an inconvenience to go to Lake Sumter.

[graciegirl]

I would love to see a new Curves franchise open in Brownwood as we are in the Collier village and it's an inconvenience to go to Lake Sumter.

I would like for Mark Harmon to hand out hugs on Brownwood square.

Hey...wish in one hand and...well you know.....

[golfing eagles]

I would like for Mark Harmon to hand out hugs on Brownwood square.

Hey...wish in one hand and...well you know.....

Make that Kate Upton and you have a deal:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

2 other points:

1) to the Collier resident, how far was it to a Curves in your home town, how long did it take to get there and park in a car, and could you take a golf cart there?. It's not like it is located in Mulberry.

2) What's with all the anti-developer rhetoric lately, are all those posters unhappy with living here?
Brownwood is not fully rented---must be the developers greed
TVH changed their accepted insurance---they must be "greedy" too
No over seeding fairways this year---more greed
An earthquake hits Italy---also the developers fault
At least we can assign blame if space aliens invade Earth:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

All rights for everyone to express an opinion aside, I just don't get it:confused::confused:

[OhioBuckeye]

I'm guessing a lot of the buildings are empty because possibly the rent is to high. You really have to be marketing something that everyone needs because nickle dime stuff just won't cut it. I know some people will disagree with me because some places in the U.S. where some people come from was very expensive to at too & I'm sure the Villages seems really cheap! I'm sure they'll get something in all of them eventually.

[Bonny]

I'm guessing a lot of the buildings are empty because possibly the rent is to high. You really have to be marketing something that everyone needs because nickle dime stuff just won't cut it. I know some people will disagree with me because some places in the U.S. where some people come from was very expensive to at too & I'm sure the Villages seems really cheap! I'm sure they'll get something in all of them eventually.
How much is the rent if you believe high rent might be the problem?

[jimbo2012]

it's in the mid 30.00$ a sq ft, made offer to negotiate, they declined.

it's less $$ up by Home Depot with tons more shoppers.

.

[joephlibeetz]

Miles42
very poor mix of stores in all the squares. One store owner in colony plaza said the developer strickly regulates store policies. Developer regulates hours of operation & developer takes a portion of owner sales or profits. Real turnoff to open a business in the villages.


As a former manufacturer/retailer up north, when we moved to TV several years ago, we briefly considered renting a store front to sell products from the factory we left behind. The rents here in TV are extraordinarily high, plus the developer wants to participate with your sales and profits. During the interview with the developer's agent, he asked what kind of sales did we think we needed to break even...when I gave him an off the cuff estimate, he said they wanted 4% of anything over that sales figure plus our rent payment. We were in a low margin business up north and never made more than 8% net on our sales, so handing over 4% on top of our rent was a shock, and we never went through with the contract. This was several years ago, so I assume rents and the amount the developer wants to "wet his beak" are only higher now. Opening a business in TV is a real high stakes gamble for any small business. You had better be a large chain that has other stores to absorb the lower profits or even losses from a store here...or have very deep pockets.

[Bonny]

As a former manufacturer/retailer up north, when we moved to TV several years ago, we briefly considered renting a store front to sell products from the factory we left behind. The rents here in TV are extraordinarily high, plus the developer wants to participate with your sales and profits. During the interview with the developer's agent, he asked what kind of sales did we think we needed to break even...when I gave him an off the cuff estimate, he said they wanted 4% of anything over that sales figure plus our rent payment. We were in a low margin business up north and never made more than 8% net on our sales, so handing over 4% on top of our rent was a shock, and we never went through with the contract. This was several years ago, so I assume rents and the amount the developer wants to "wet his beak" are only higher now. Opening a business in TV is a real high stakes gamble for any small business. You had better be a large chain that has other stores to absorb the lower profits or even losses from a store here...or have very deep pockets.
A lot of the businesses do very well. If you have a good product and consistent customer service, you'll do well in The Villages.

[jimbo2012]

if you have big margins or overcharge for your products/services.


If you have a 5,000 sq ft store that's about $15,000 a moth rent.

or $500 a day, do the math.

there are plenty of other choices for half that money

[RickeyD]

it's in the mid 30.00$ a sq ft, made offer to negotiate, they declined.



it's less $$ up by Home Depot with tons more shoppers.



.



There ya go !

[Duppa]

As with all good threads... (lots of interesting answers). Our story. Our lifestyle visit began when BW was rising... You could see the watertower in the distance, but could not approach it from the north (literally no roads there)... Over the past four years the area to the north (all TV) grew in with houses and BW itself appeared in full. As we made many additional visits (before purchasing on the other side in Osceola Hills), we adopted BW as "our TS" but, being good TVers, we went to LSL and SP as well. Our verdict? Features. SP is beautiful, charming, interesting, lovely... sitting around the square on a warm evening, wonderful. LSL, gorgeous sunsets, beautiful vistas over water, the board walk... sorry, that is tough to beat; simply amazing dining on the Lighthouse deck.... Then BW. features? No vistas, no water, no big trees, no charming (aged) architecture... We go because it's "our side of town" and we want to support our side. We do not go for the features (that are currently present). IMHO, for crowds to appear, for people to come and linger, you need more than "Rocky and the Rollers"... (but great bands do work wonders too); you need something amazing, something wonderful, something interesting to see, to walk around, to be with... A working mill with a waterfall feature into a nice pond with wildlife... perhaps misplaced on a western theme, but something. A crop of faux mesas with waterfalls. A raceway of water threading through a sliver of the property. Imagine it, build it.

[Bogie Shooter]

Or a giant water slide............................Geez!

[RickeyD]

As with all good threads... (lots of interesting answers). Our story. Our lifestyle visit began when BW was rising... You could see the watertower in the distance, but could not approach it from the north (literally no roads there)... Over the past four years the area to the north (all TV) grew in with houses and BW itself appeared in full. As we made many additional visits (before purchasing on the other side in Osceola Hills), we adopted BW as "our TS" but, being good TVers, we went to LSL and SP as well. Our verdict? Features. SP is beautiful, charming, interesting, lovely... sitting around the square on a warm evening, wonderful. LSL, gorgeous sunsets, beautiful vistas over water, the board walk... sorry, that is tough to beat; simply amazing dining on the Lighthouse deck.... Then BW. features? No vistas, no water, no big trees, no charming (aged) architecture... We go because it's "our side of town" and we want to support our side. We do not go for the features (that are currently present). IMHO, for crowds to appear, for people to come and linger, you need more than "Rocky and the Rollers"... (but great bands do work wonders too); you need something amazing, something wonderful, something interesting to see, to walk around, to be with... A working mill with a waterfall feature into a nice pond with wildlife... perhaps misplaced on a western theme, but something. A crop of faux mesas with waterfalls. A raceway of water threading through a sliver of the property. Imagine it, build it.



Too bad you weren't on the BW architectural concept committee. The water feature people were absent.

[pv1313]

Maybe TV are charging too much rent for business owners to turn a profit.

[outlaw]

Maybe TV are charging too much rent for business owners to turn a profit.

Maybe the business strategy is to keep rents high enough to keep some buildings empty. That way, it is technically always growing!

[John_W]

Maybe TV are charging too much rent for business owners to turn a profit.

I posted this a while back on a similar thread. My favorite fast food restaurant, if you can call a sub that, Jersey Mike's tried to go into Brownwood. I've been a regular customer of their shop on 441/27 in front the Target shopping center ever since they opened about three years ago, in fact I ate lunch there today.

A Little more than a year ago Jersey Mike's approached TV about a space somewhere in the new area, first they asked about Pinellas Plaza and were told that Subway had a location there, then they asked about the yet to open Traverse Shopping Center and Subway had a location planned there and TV had given Subway an exclusive non-competition lease.

So then JM looked at BW Square and said we would like about a 1200 sf space. TV's answer, we don't rent under 2000 sf in BW, end of story, no negotiation. A small footprint store that would gross over a million dollars a year is turned away because they would rather keep the store empty for now, then to rent a space to a up and coming franchise that nationally went past 1000 locations about six months ago.

I eat at McAlister's at BW at least once a week and that place is packed for lunch everyday. Not every place needs to be a fancy table service restaurant, McAlister's is proof right there. This is the way Jersey Mike's on 441/27 looks like everytime I go there.

https://s3-media2.fl.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/iyzLLSLF1ZNUUftVfKAy-w/348s.jpg

[dadspet]

Brownwood does not have the atmosphere of the other two squares, and the stand terraced seating gives it a cheap stadium feel.

I for one am happy the atmosphere is different then the other squares. I glad they didn't do a cookie cuttered copy of one of the other squares like they did with all the newer CC restaurants.

WOW > the terraced seating is just great. It fits more people in a given area with a lot better view and SHADE for those in that area and even below when the shadow reaches them.
Great job.

Just wish the dance floor didn't have cracks and cattle tracks on it to turn your ankle but at least better then Spanish Springs. Glad they left out the cattle dung piles.

[THUNDERCHIEF]

Each business has to pay a portion of their profit to the villages, kinda like al capone's time in chicago--- the business must be very profitable to support this payment arrangment. Hence you have many business owners that will not come in to the villages.

[graciegirl]

if you have big margins or overcharge for your products/services.


If you have a 5,000 sq ft store that's about $15,000 a moth rent.

or $500 a day, do the math.

there are plenty of other choices for half that money

What it's worth is what it goes for. If you have a niche business with not a fast turnover, then the rent is too high. The developers obviously spent a great deal of money on all three squares. Does anyone remember them moving giant live oak trees to the area? The Villages are not alone in charging percentage rent. It is a common business practice. I will post this again.


How Percentage Rent Works in a Commercial Real Estate Lease (http://www.propertymetrics.com/blog/2014/01/16/percentage-rent/)

And as many savvy people who understand retail have already explained, there are a lot of successful businesses in the three squares able to meet the rent.

I don't know the Morses, but I do know a little bit about business. I watched underfunded niche businesses with big ideas fail a lot.

[jimbo2012]

What it's worth is what it goes for.


But when it doesn't "go for" it's not worth the money hense dark space after 3 years.

It's only because they don't need the money they can sit on the property.

the new space on rt 44 east of Sparrs is like 12-15 a foot 6 free months, almost all rented I think.


Percentage Rent is not done on most retail space it is done mostly in malls etc.

these squares don't have year round foot traffic.


??????



.

[graciegirl]

But when it doesn't "go for" it's not worth the money hense dark space after 3 years.

It's only because they don't need the money they can sit on the property.

the new space on rt 44 east of Sparrs is like 12-15 a foot 6 free months, almost all rented I think.


Percentage Rent is not done on most retail space it is done mostly in malls etc.

these squares don't have year round foot traffic.


??????



.

You must know more than they do. Most businesses have high seasons. Clothing is cyclical. If you have what everybody wants, or what everybody is willing to pay a lot for...well there you are. I am frugal, in fact many call me tight. I don't often shop at the squares. I have always been aware of the high rent at vacation destinations. If you have to pay high overhead, or high wages, the consumer foots the bill.

[Bogie Shooter]

Each business has to pay a portion of their profit to the villages, kinda like al capone's time in chicago--- the business must be very profitable to support this payment arrangment. Hence you have many business owners that will not come in to the villages.

Do you think that concept is unique to TV.....it's not.

[Fredman]

Just remember, he who has the gold makes the rules

[dbussone]

Just remember, he who has the gold makes the rules



So let's not kill the goose that laid the golden eggs.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[asianthree]

We go to the squares on occasion, I browse. It reminds me when we were kids on vacation. You went into town walked thru the shops and got to spend your few dollars. If I am shopping it's mostly on line. I do miss the banner stores. I did buy from them often. Just not the same when they moved to the sales office.

[ithos]

I bought a house in Brownwood and love it. Less congestion, quick access to Turnpike/I75 and plenty of facilities to choose from. Once the Turnpike exits are built it will be a short commute to Orlando.

If you loving hanging out in a Town Square or shopping then North of 466A is much better .

As far as appreciation, I believe Brownwood will be the best as 44 gets developed. Seems TV is making a big push for Brownwood to be the Grand Entrance.

[dewilson58]

I bought a house in Brownwood and love it. Less congestion, quick access to Turnpike/I75 and plenty of facilities to choose from. Once the Turnpike exits are built it will be a short commute to Orlando.

If you loving hanging out in a Town Square or shopping then North of 466A is much better .

As far as appreciation, I believe Brownwood will be the best as 44 gets developed. Seems TV is making a big push for Brownwood to be the Grand Entrance.

:bigbow:

I agree.......let it come slowly. Love it.

[kstew43]

empty stores are a tax right-off....

[Krg675]

Like your quote!..I guess deep minds think alike.Or is it just simple minds

[biker1]

Expenses, such as utilities, for empty store fronts are legitimate business expenses. If you are suggesting that rent not collected is also a business expense, I don't believe that is true. Full disclosure: I did the taxes for my wife's business for over 10 years.


empty stores are a tax right-off....

[NYGUY]

empty stores are a tax right-off....

What section of the Code is that from? I will have to check it out!!

[Bogie Shooter]

empty stores are a tax right-off....

Really?

[dewilson58]

Don't fall for the tax troll

[Challenger]

empty stores are a tax right-off....

If you are in a 101 per cent tax bracket!!!

[kstew43]

empty rental property is adjusted in my taxes......

adjusted....right off....same thing.....

[graciegirl]

can you claim empty rental property as a tax write off? - Bing (https://www.bing.com/search?q=can+you+claim+empty+rental+property+as+a+ tax+write+off%3F&form=EDGHPC&qs=PF&cvid=f5905ecdc1f341b18078f98573078a3c&pq=can+you+claim+empty+rental+property+as+a+tax+wr ite+off%3F&elv=AOPulNhjf4ywAOcUwWkmKKr7WhnC10ibIJka4rZ8W*L6)

[kstew43]

If you actively participate in a rental real estate activity, you can deduct up to $25,000 of your rental loss even though it’s passive.

To actively participate means that you own at least 10% of the property, and you make major management decisions, such as approving new tenants, setting rental terms, approving improvements and so forth

I am sure the developer fits into this catagory as well.... I like turbo tax......does all the work for you

[Challenger]

If you actively participate in a rental real estate activity, you can deduct up to $25,000 of your rental loss even though it’s passive.

To actively participate means that you own at least 10% of the property, and you make major management decisions, such as approving new tenants, setting rental terms, approving improvements and so forth

I am sure the developer fits into this catagory as well.... I like turbo tax......does all the work for you

To intimate that the property would intentionally be held off the market would not work in a net sense unless the tax savings was in excess of the rent attainable.

[dewilson58]

Don't fall for the tax troll

Again.