Automated External Defibrillator machine...

[tkret]

A tragic scene at Lake Sumter Landing Town Square last night reinforced my belief that AED (automated external defibrillator) machines should be placed in both Town Squares and recreation facilities. One of our Villages neighbors (or a guest) suffered, what appeared to be, a heart attack. The EMS response was fantastic and they arrived within 5 minutes of being called.

AED machines are life-savers and VERY easy to use. An AED is applied outside the body. It automatically analyzes the patient’s heart rhythm and advises the rescuer whether or not a shock is needed to restore a normal heart beat. If the patient’s heart resumes beating normally, the heart has been defibrillated.

The American Red Cross offers a class on using AED and volunteers throughout The Villages could take the course, and be certified. In my previous active-adult community, the developer provided the machines and paid for volunteers to take the one-day class. We had them placed at the tennis courts, softball field, and Clubhouse, and they were used on occasion with success. Florida's Good Samaritan Act 768.13 guarantees immunity from civil liability. (too bad that this even HAS to be mentioned)

You may wish to consider this when you fill out your 2009 Resident Survey.

p.s. Although the response by the EMS was impressive and their attention to the gentleman was extensive, I have not learned about his condition. After many minutes of life saving techniques, they elected to transport him from the area.

[Russ_Boston]

Excellent idea (the survey) and the cost has become very reasonable for these AED machines. I'm certified on them and they are very easy to learn and use.

Great Post!

[KayakerNC]

Do the Emergency Medical Services paramedic responders carry Defibs?

[tkret]

Do the Emergency Medical Services paramedic responders carry Defibs?
Hello KayakerNC,

It DID appear that the EMS crew had and used a machine. However, while waiting for them to arrive, someone did attempt CPR but having a machine "on the ready" near the bandstand would have been beneficial.

[JoeB1]

I've used these devices in my prior life as a police officer. We carried them in our vehicles and used them on calls. They are invaluable in these types of circumstances. They actually detect the vital issues with the heart and advise you what to do, or sometimes more importantly, what not to do. The city I live in in CA. have them placed in most recreation facilities and they have been used numerous times by civilians and have saved lives in the process. I highly recommend them for that time period prior to emergency services arrival. They are easy to use and pose no real threat to the user, if you can read and follow directions in english. There are different types and brands, but the one's we used talked to you and basically told you what to do from the moment you opened the case.

[KathieI]

In my last company, we had them all over our campus in many of the buildings and since I was on the corporate safety committee, we were aware of all the locations and were briefly trained on them. I would think the paramedics would have a machine on their vehicle.

Donna, where are you?? She's our resident paramedic. She'll let us know. Sorry about the poor man, if anyone finds out what happened or how he is, please post it.

[Donna]

Hello KayakerNC,

It DID appear that the EMS crew had and used a machine. However, while waiting for them to arrive, someone did attempt CPR but having a machine "on the ready" near the bandstand would have been beneficial.


TK is right..The sooner the shocks are delivered the better..

Yes, there are defibrillator's on the Medic trucks, as well as all the Cardiac drugs needed for an arrest..

I agree 100% TV should have AED's strategically located throughout the area..
CPR, and AED courses should be offered to the residents..I am sure the hospital can advise where they are given and how often, if not the Red Cross will advise..

[gemorc]

The major problem with an auto defib is liability. TV heirarchy has nightmares about accepting liability. The buffaloes leaving is a good example. The one problem I have had here is the lack of accepting any responsibility for actions on the golf courses. The ambassadors are not trained in CPR and are forbidden to offer any assistance other than calling for help. The courses do not even sound an alarm for lighting because someone might ignore it and be injured.

[Donna]

I think the ambassadors should have CPR/AED training..They are always available, and time saves lives..

What liability? If a first responder acts diligently, and follows his/her scope of training, there should be no liability..

Although today, we live in a sue all world..:oops:

[dgammon6]

Donna is correct, The problem would be where are they located when you needed one.

[faithfulfrank]

I agree with Donna and others.......I can't believe you guys do not have AED's all over.
We at The Plantation have one at EVERY activity center and pool, and offer free classes in CPR and AED.

The better AED setups have it where the AED is in a case, which when opened, AUTOMATICALLY call 911, so Paramedics can get there ASAP.

With a cardiac call, Time is Heart Muscle. In the four links of the Chain of Survival, three of those four links can be done by a layperson, (early access(911), early CPR, early Defibrillation), the fourth being advanced cardiac care.

All Paramedic rigs carry defibrillators. In our city up north here, we encourage places to buy the same brand, (Physio control), so when there is a full arrest, the layperson can use a AED with the same leads we use on our Lifepak 12's, saving even more time.

There are Good Samaritan laws that protect people who are willing to help from being sued. I would think the care of the residents would take precedence over the fear of a lawsuit. Very sad and telling, IMHO.

I've been a professional firefighter/medic and New York State EMS instructor for 18 years so this is a subject I'm well versed in.

Frank D.

[chuckinca]

Just took the CPR & AED class - if I can do it anyone can.

[Russ_Boston]

The ambassadors are not trained in CPR and are forbidden to offer any assistance other than calling for help.

The only liability would be if what you are saying here was the truth. They can not force their workers not to help. That's ludicrous on its face. Are you saying that even if a worker was trained on his/her own to do CPR that they couldn't help because TV management told them not to? That's just plain nuts! And very doubtful.

[Donna]

People trained in CPR have a duty to help..Frank is correct in saying The Good Samaritan laws protect people who are willing to help from being sued, providing they act within their scope of training..

So many senior citizens and no AED's..That is absurd! I believe the time has come and the population has increased so much, it is time to take a stand on AED's and training..

I am sure a CPR/AED class would be filled in no time, and every one would benefit..

I have been involved in EMS since the early 70's..I responded to quite a few accidents while in TV..I am not afraid of being sued because I am a Medic in Pa...I have a duty to respond..

[faithfulfrank]

Good for you Donna! Thanks for your service.

I too feel that I have an ethical duty to act.....but not a legal one. here in NY at least, I legally have a duty to act only when I am "on duty", working at the firehouse. If a person is a volunteer, they have a duty to act once they acknowledge that they are responding.

I do not want to get off subject, but I sometimes think that through the years, we instructors have somewhat missed the mark. Studies have shown that many folks have CPR cards in their wallet, but when witnessing a full arrest, many of those card carrying CPR folks will still walk right by and not do CPR.

So, what went wrong??

Afterwards when asked, some say that they did not do anything because their card expired a month ago.....or they forgot how to do it perfect....or they were afraid of being sued.....or afraid of "getting something".

Perhaps what we should be telling folks is that when a person is not breathing, or they do not have an airway, and do not have a pulse.......they are dead. You cannot hurt a dead person. You cannot make them any "deader". I do not wish to be crude, but if I'm dead, and you know how to do CPR, I don't care if your card expired a month ago. Please, still do CPR on me and give me a chance.

Folks, CPR is EASY. They have made it much easier then in years past. Doing anything is better then nothing. Even if you do just compressions, it is better then nothing. I carry a simple barrier device on my keyring so I have nothing to worry about.. If you can't remember weather it is 15 or 30 compressions, then 2 breaths....IT'S OK. There are no CPR police.

Even if you just learn CPR to help a loved one.....you should still learn it. The only thing worse then losing a loved one is wondering if you could have made a difference.

Please forgive my long post.

Frank D.

[Fourpar]

I think The Villages has done an excellent job in instituting a Defib program. There is a Defib unit at every Recreation Center in The Villages. And the people working at the centers are trained to use them. They have had a number of successes in "bringing back" folks.

In addition there are neighborhoods that have put up the bucks to have units available in their 'hoods, and people trained to use them.

If you would like more info on this topic, I suggest you ask the fire chief's office. They know where every unit in The Villages is, and train those responsible for their use.

The liability issue is pretty much a non-issue in Florida as there is a very good "Good Samaritan law" to protect those who dare to help others in need.

[faithfulfrank]

Fourpar,
Excellent info......that is a much better picture then this thread was seeming to paint. Also, it is more of what I would have expected in a place like TV....it was beginning to look a tad ugly safety-wise...........

Frank D.

[Donna]

Fourpar,
Excellent info......that is a much better picture then this thread was seeming to paint. Also, it is more of what I would have expected in a place like TV....it was beginning to look a tad ugly safety-wise...........

Frank D.

I too feel much better after reading this..

[billethkid]

agreed we should have these devices in our Village.
Yes the issue of liability came up...(of course in our litigious society) and reached an easy agreement on the legal mumbo jumbo. The cost per resident was reasonable....and we implemented.

We have 4 units....affixed to select homes of those who volunteered to have them. We have local responders with beepers....tied to the 911 system...conducted all the required training....certifications....coordination with 911.

A tough issue came up regarding those who did not want to contribute or those who did not want the responsibility legal or other wise....what if one of them is the emergency...of course we all agreed, they are our neighbors, and we will treat them no differently.

BTK

[Russ_Boston]

The last few posts have made me feel much better. I would have expected that AED's would be available at the centers at least and it is good to see that they are. I just wonder how some folks are so misinformed?

[villages07]

Good question Russ.... I think the AEDs are failry new...last 3 years and have gradually been put in place. I remember reading stories in the Sun as they were being installed and there have been one or two lifesaving stories in the paper.

From a link on the CDD website, here are the locations:

http://www.districtgov.org/slcdd/recreation/AED.asp

But, back to tkret's original point...there really should be AEDs in both squares and other larger common areas and perhaps at the country clubs.

[JohnnyM]

We at Bainbridge Villa's (Village of Hadley) have purchased and own 2 AED with pagers. Cost per household was $100.00. Total collected was $5,600. There will be free lessons given on the use of the machines and CPR. The units will be strategically placed at each end of the Villa property.

[KathieI]

Johnny, what a great idea!! I'm gonna recommend doing that to my Ellenton Run neighbors. We already have a community watch type of program and this is even better. I'll bring it up at the next function. Thanks, K.

[sandybill2]

At our monthly neighborhood Ladies Club meeting, we had a gentleman from the Villages Fire Department/Rescue give a talk and demonstration on the new CPR. He states that you no longer have to do the breaths--that most people are hesistant to do this on a stranger in these days and times with all the hepatitis, HIV, etc. He also stated that bad CPR is better than no CPR as the person is dead. The main objective is to keep the oxygen flowing through the body until the EMT's arrive and can take over. This can be done with 100 chest compressions--2 inches deep--per minute. He also suggested to think about the song "Staying Alive" from the John Travolta disco movie as the rhythm to use to time the compressions. He demonstrated the AED device and it basically tells you exactly what to do as it "talks" and has diagrams for placement of pads. (They do have classes once a month--I believe he said there was a $20 fee).

[gemorc]

The only liability would be if what you are saying here was the truth. They can not force their workers not to help. That's ludicrous on its face. Are you saying that even if a worker was trained on his/her own to do CPR that they couldn't help because TV management told them not to? That's just plain nuts! And very doubtful.

Are there any golf ambassadors out there? I work for GMS, the company running golf course operations, and at one time, that is exactly what the ambassadors were told to do. Make the notifications as quickly as possible, but not to interfere otherwise. Please correct me if I am wrong.

As far as Good Samaritain Laws, does Florida have these laws and if it does, are they comparable to other states?