Bathroom Valve

[PennBF]

Has anyone ever had the bathroom wall valve break within the wall and explode? The pipe blew completely out of the wall and allowed water to blast out almost to the level of a fire hose. With luck we were home and able to immediately shut water off to the house and get a plumber to fix the problem. Checked this with 4 plumbers and none had ever heard of this happening? :ohdear:

[maybe]

Has anyone ever had the bathroom wall valve break within the wall and explode? The pipe blew completely out of the wall and allowed water to blast out almost to the level of a fire hose. With luck we were home and able to immediately shut water off to the house and get a plumber to fix the problem. Checked this with 4 plumbers and none had ever heard of this happening? :ohdear:

I have not heard of that, but the standard push-pull plastic valves TV uses at toilets, sinks, etc., must be the absolute cheapest junk made in China. I replaced one of mine due to a slow leak when I first moved in.

[rubicon]

I have not heard of that, but the standard push-pull plastic valves TV uses at toilets, sinks, etc., must be the absolute cheapest junk made in China. I replaced one of mine due to a slow leak when I first moved in.

There are varying opinions on that issue including plumbers, some of who would agree with you and some that would not????????????

[Topspinmo]

Has anyone ever had the bathroom wall valve break within the wall and explode? The pipe blew completely out of the wall and allowed water to blast out almost to the level of a fire hose. With luck we were home and able to immediately shut water off to the house and get a plumber to fix the problem. Checked this with 4 plumbers and none had ever heard of this happening? :ohdear:

Was it the pipe or the valve screw on base? It the pipe blew out it could be several reasons. Improper gluing, fatigue, small crack that finely gave up. The on/off valve just screws on to the pipe, not glued. The water coming out is direct pressure from the water incoming line. 1/2" pipe under 60 psi or higher can push lots of water as you found out.

[Topspinmo]

There are varying opinions on that issue including plumbers, some of who would agree with you and some that would not????????????


I would guess the pumbers that like them are charging 900% mark up on the 2 dollar trailer park parts :faint:

[Retiring]

I have not heard of that, but the standard push-pull plastic valves TV uses at toilets, sinks, etc., must be the absolute cheapest junk made in China. I replaced one of mine due to a slow leak when I first moved in.

Is this true? Are they using the plastic push/pull valves in TV? If they are, is it across the board, low end to high end homes?

If this is the case I'm very disappointed. Coming from a long line of general contractors that would NEVER use these type valves. Failure is a matter of when, not if.

If I build there I guess I'm going to have to spend $1-2k to replace all the valves in the house. Do you have a choice of plumbing subs?

[graciegirl]

Is this true? Are they using the plastic push/pull valves in TV? If they are, is it across the board, low end to high end homes?

If this is the case I'm very disappointed. Coming from a long line of general contractors that would NEVER use these type valves. Failure is a matter of when, not if.

If I build there I guess I'm going to have to spend $1-2k to replace all the valves in the house. Do you have a choice of plumbing subs?


No.

I haven't ever heard of a pipe blowing out of a wall and having the pressure of a fire hose. I haven't heard of a refrigerator blowing up either until one did here in The Villages. It is hard sometimes to know what to believe.

Retiring. You are welcome to visit us and see our home. We think this one and the Camellia we had in Hadley were built just fine. We are not new to home building. All of our homes were new except two. We have lived in ten homes and two were not new. We were part of helping our daughter and son in law build two homes as a nibby parent/consultant.

[John_W]

We had the push/pull valves in our 2011 built masonry CYV. I had Riley & Sons Plumbers replace 2 of them in both bathroom toilets, I think it cost about $150. I need to have the sinks done next time, which I've got 4 of those.

[Chatbrat]

What did you replace the valves with?

[Topspinmo]

What did you replace the valves with?

Common plumbing parts. Valves that screw on and off, hoses that can be replaced.

[Topspinmo]

[/COLOR][/B]

No.

I haven't ever heard of a pipe blowing out of a wall and having the pressure of a fire hose. I haven't heard of a refrigerator blowing up either until one did here in The Villages. It is hard sometimes to know what to believe.

Retiring. You are welcome to visit us and see our home. We think this one and the Camellia we had in Hadley were built just fine. We are not new to home building. All of our homes were new except two. We have lived in ten homes and two were not new. We were part of helping our daughter and son in law build two homes as a nibby parent/consultant.

You never had main water line in the house break then, water line pressure usually 60 plus psi which is the same at the fire hydrant except the fire hydrant has more volume so to the size of the pipe connection 3 inches or more vs 1/2 inch in the wall.

[PennBF]

I spoke to the Water Dept. and they provided what may be the source of the problem and I am passing it on in case there are others with the same issue. The possibility is that in Sept.when they replaced the Water Meter for our house and at the same time they installed a "Check Valve" which is now a state requirement. When they install this valve they should also tell the customer that they [customer] must install an "extension on the water heater"!! This provides some controls on the water pressure. It is possible that the valve in the bathroom blew out because this extension was not installed to control the water pressure. I am sure this is not a real complete technical explanation but it should cause some to look into the exposure. We have also noted the water pressure in the house will fluxuate at times and this may be one of the causes? It is interesting that when the plumber came and repaired the "blow out" we had on the valve in the bathroom he looked at the water heater, noted no "extension" and said when he came back (which is be end of week) he will have to look at that! I was told that Customer's should be notified of need for "Extension" on older homes when meter is replaced and check valve installed but IT IS NOT BEING DONE!!! We are having a Water Dept. tech. look at it today. Hope this alerts some to a potential exposure.:shrug:

[PennBF]

We were told that the responsibility for the extension on the water heater is the responsibility of the home owner since it is between the meter and the home on the home side. :shrug:

[Topspinmo]

We were told that the responsibility for the extension on the water heater is the responsibility of the home owner since it is between the meter and the home on the home side. :shrug:


When you say extension? Are you taking about the bladder pressure tank on top of the water heater ( usually blue and about the size of basketball ).

[Chatbrat]

I honestly think they're talking about an expansion tank---not an "extension"

[jjdees]

You should have a pressure reducer valve at the entrance of the water into the house. Never saw a house without one.

[John_W]

What did you replace the valves with?

You remove this cheap piece of crap

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/attachments/plumbing/39088d1329072126-problem-installing-faucet-accor-valve-photo.jpg

and replace with what 99% of homes outside TV have.

http://cdn.networx.com/media/532x552/photo5shutoffvalveandretainingnut.jpg_2a480965e8f1 f6020bca3f8a991fc5cd.jpg

[bob47]

I think PennBF received exactly the right answer about what happened. Without a check valve (one-way valve), the water pressure in the house "floats" with the supply pressure and gets no higher. With the check valve installed, and no expansion tank, the water in the water heater expands as it heats, can't back up into the supply line, and over pressurizes the plumbing in the house. Or trips the T & P valve on the heater.

When I go on vacation and shut the water supply valve, I set the water heater to "Pilot Light" setting and depressurize a hot water faucet. The water shutoff valve is acting just like a check valve when it's closed. Maybe now I'll install an expansion tank on my water heater. Thanks for the heads up.

[PennBF]

Bob47, thanks for your input and explanation. The plumbing co. tried to explain it to me but was not as clear as you have. Again, thanks.:eclipsee_gold_cup:

[Topspinmo]

You should have a pressure reducer valve at the entrance of the water into the house. Never saw a house without one.
The only thing out side my CYV is water meter assembly and ball on/off valve after the meter, it then goes into the slab/walls. When was the one way valves required? Housing range from 60s to 2016 here? My water heater has expansion tank, I thought this was to ilimate the thumping sounds from the water heater. My meter was replaced last summer due to leak. How do I know if I have or need one way check valve?

[PennBF]

That is a good question. I see something on our water heater that looks like the expansion tank that everyone is talking about but the plumber I had said we should replace it since it is not the right expansion tank. I would not know the difference. Since your water meter has been replaced it may be prudent to have a plumber decide if it is OK with the new meter. Would add we have a very good and honest plumber so am convinced he is right.:bowdown:

[Uberschaf]

I believe it's not a check valve but a backflow preventer. If the house pressure is greater than the street pressure it vents.The expansion tank is for expansion of water pressure when the water is heating so the backflow preventer won't vent. The reason for the backflow preventer is that if the water main breaks and loses pressure all the homes would drain into the main possibly contaminating the main and leaving homes with air in the plumbing.I like the supply valves I don't use them I just turn the main off when doing any plumbing repairs.

[PennBF]

Checked with Water Dept and they recommended having our plumber also check the PRV valve on the Water Heater. They had not heard of the problem before. Did say the home owners should have been advised of any meter replacements and added check valve. :bowdown:

[rubicon]

I would guess the pumbers that like them are charging 900% mark up on the 2 dollar trailer park parts :faint:

Now I am confused because the plumber was called to replace a water heater and then to change out the water valves shut offs throughout the house and replace with upgraded. he told me to save my money and swore that these valves were sound? He would ave to replace 15 valves in my home I do know that if the expansion tank goes chance are one perhaps more of these valves will pop and shut off the water supply. Hmmm have to give more thought to this issue

[photo1902]

That is a good question. I see something on our water heater that looks like the expansion tank that everyone is talking about but the plumber I had said we should replace it since it is not the right expansion tank. I would not know the difference. Since your water meter has been replaced it may be prudent to have a plumber decide if it is OK with the new meter. Would add we have a very good and honest plumber so am convinced he is right.:bowdown:

The new meter has nothing to do with the expansion tank on your water heater. If there is a back flow preventer/check valve after the meter, you basically have a closed system, hence the reason for the expansion tank on the heater. As far as the push pull valve is concerned, I'm not aware of any major problem with these devices. I'd be more concerned about a blow out on the water supply lines on your washer and dryer, unless they are the stainless steel braided lines.

[RickeyD]

The OP may have an expansion tank that's shot. Rap it with the blunt end of a butter knife. If it doesn't sound hollow it's shot.

[chuckinca]

The OP may have an expansion tank that's shot. Rap it with the blunt end of a butter knife. If it doesn't sound hollow it's shot.


It's supposed to have water in it, how can it sound hollow?


Expansion tank - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expansion_tank)

.

[RickeyD]

It's supposed to have water in it, how can it sound hollow?


Expansion tank - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expansion_tank)

.

If the diaphram is intact half the tank will contain air. A broken diaphram will produce a dull thud sound.

[PennBF]

Heck, I am not an expert on water systems so can add little to the problem other than what I have been told. In the course of the discussions it was mentioned that when the water meter was replaced something was also done with the "Check Valve" and the home owner was to be told of the meter change/check valve adjustment or something to that effect. We were not told. I was also told the "push pull" valves are the cheapest and should be replaced when appropriate. We have a plumber coming this morning who is going to replace the bathroom push pull valves and also look at the extension to see if it is OK or replace it? The PSI for our area was checked and it is at 58psi and I understand it should be between 50 and 60 so it is fine. No one can tell us with any absolute definition why ours blew out and with the force it used. :bowdown:

[PennBF]

Hopefully this will be the end of the discussion since I have had a plumber look and fix it. It appears the "expansion" unit was the problem. When he removed it it was very heavy and filled with water. When I held the new one is was relatively light when compared to the old one. That was because it was half air and half water which is right.
As he explained it the cause of the pipe that was broken was because of the "shock" to the pipe because the expansion was bad. He said it would be good for anyone who believed their expansion was faulty to have it checked. He is an excellent plumber and is very fair in his charges. His company is "Holmes Plumbing" and his name is Charlie and his number is 352-787-9554. He is the same person who was at our home within minutes when we called with the broken pipe. :eclipsee_gold_cup:

[RickeyD]

Hopefully this will be the end of the discussion since I have had a plumber look and fix it. It appears the "expansion" unit was the problem. When he removed it it was very heavy and filled with water. When I held the new one is was relatively light when compared to the old one. That was because it was half air and half water which is right.

As he explained it the cause of the pipe that was broken was because of the "shock" to the pipe because the expansion was bad. He said it would be good for anyone who believed their expansion was faulty to have it checked. He is an excellent plumber and is very fair in his charges. His company is "Holmes Plumbing" and his name is Charlie and his number is 352-787-9554. He is the same person who was at our home within minutes when we called with the broken pipe. :eclipsee_gold_cup:



Bingo !

[Topspinmo]

Hopefully this will be the end of the discussion since I have had a plumber look and fix it. It appears the "expansion" unit was the problem. When he removed it it was very heavy and filled with water. When I held the new one is was relatively light when compared to the old one. That was because it was half air and half water which is right.
As he explained it the cause of the pipe that was broken was because of the "shock" to the pipe because the expansion was bad. He said it would be good for anyone who believed their yexpansion was faulty to have it checked. He is an excellent plumber and is very fair in his charges. His company is "Holmes Plumbing" and his name is Charlie and his number is 352-787-9554. He is the same person who was at our home within minutes when we called with the broken pipe. :eclipsee_gold_cup:

Thank you for posting the final results! My expansion tank was replaced year ago. It had small leak.

Now the subject of the push on/off valve assembly that got injected into the post.

Reason I don't like them is due to age, they are ove 12 years old in my house. When ever I have plumbing work done on the system the connect to I have the plumber replace them. Now with screw on/off valve and hose I can replace parts if they start to go bad. Saving me money down the road.

[rubicon]

Expansion tanks go about every 3-5 years

[RickeyD]

Expansion tanks go about every 3-5 years



Although the term expansion tank has been used referring to the diaphragm style tank, even by the manufacturers. The correct term is compression tank. Difference being an expansion tank is a vessel open to atmospheric until piped into a water system. A compression tank is a vessel containing a bladder/diaphragm which is pressurized equal to the domestic water pressure in a system, thereby allowing the expanded water to compress into the bladder inside the compression tank.

[PennBF]

Thanks for clearing up the terms. It is a compression tank as I spent some time with the plumber to understand the purpose, working, etc. :coolsmiley:

[TNLAKEPANDA]

Does anyone know what it should cost to have the tank changed?

[Mikeod]

Does anyone know what it should cost to have the tank changed?

We had a quote of $150 from Torri Plumbing just about a month ago.

[eremite06]

I had Torri replace all my pop-out valves a few years ago. You can buy a new compression tank and install it yourself. Got mine at a plumbing supply on Rolling Acres Rd. A lot less than $150.

Not sure about the psi of compression tank should be equal to the supply pressure. My supply is 55 psi and the tank is 30 psi.

[photo1902]

What we have on our hot water heaters down here is called a Themal Expansion Tank. I've yet to see anywhere, trade publications, code, etc., where they are called compression tanks. Another problem which is common, is that the tanks are not filled with the correct pressure. The pressure should match the water pressure in your house. A recent check of mine revealed it was at 20psi, which is too low. The expansion tanks come set from the factory, but are frequently not checked for correct pressure when the plumbers install them.

[rubicon]

I would guess the pumbers that like them are charging 900% mark up on the 2 dollar trailer park parts :faint:

topspinismo: I missed your post until this thread appeared again today.

Actually I had the same plumber install a standard shut off valve and a time later a push-pull valve. he charged the exact same price for both?????????. Interesting enough defects from both were not the valve it self but the lines were they are metal clamped

[maggie1]

We had the push/pull valves in our 2011 built masonry CYV. I had Riley & Sons Plumbers replace 2 of them in both bathroom toilets, I think it cost about $150. I need to have the sinks done next time, which I've got 4 of those.

We had a leak in the valve of our bathroom sink - the push/pull plastic type that I guess are standard issue. I went to ACE Hardware and they put me on to the Shark Bite replacement valve, which was easy to install, as long as you have approximately 1/2" of pipe once you cut off the push/pull valve at its base. I believe the valve was somewhere around $10.

[pjwenz]

When we did a bathroom renovation this is what we found this water supply line. The plumber went as far to put chalk around the screw through the middle of the pipe. It lasted 12 years. Shows the quality of some contractors here.

64750

[genobambino]

It happens more than people realize. Our neighbor had the hose outlet on a bedroom side blow in between the walls and fill the whole end of the house with water, hardwood floors and drywall a couple feet up had to be replace along with some doors

[OhioBuckeye]

Don't mean to sound neg. but as fast as the contractors put them up & to me when I look around my own house it looks like they don't use top quality materials. They seem to build them just so they last long enough for the warranty to run out, I know some people might read this & think I'm crazy but I'm sure most people don't even know how to change a furnace filter. It's a vendors paradise in TV. Sorry to sound neg. but I do know a little bit about building materials & everyone that have anything to do with any kind of maintenance, selling or vendor are charging to much to get anything done. I've already rebuilt both of my toilets, everything in both bathroom. (Closets) That's the tank that sits on the back of the toilet stool & I'm sure I did it for 1/4 the price that some maintenance guy could of done it for. As far as the valve breaking, yea I can believe it & I bet whoever put the plumbing in didn't replace it for nothing. These homes should be maintenance free for 10 yrs. min.

[Chatbrat]

The only problem I have with work, is with the plumbing inspector--how can they allow a hot water heater to be installed, with not enough clearance to remove and install a sacrificial anode--its a maintenance item--(electric water heaters)

[bunnyhop]

We had one of the cheap push/pull valves break. What a mess. Our plumber installed the regular shut-off valves instead.


======




Has anyone ever had the bathroom wall valve break within the wall and explode? The pipe blew completely out of the wall and allowed water to blast out almost to the level of a fire hose. With luck we were home and able to immediately shut water off to the house and get a plumber to fix the problem. Checked this with 4 plumbers and none had ever heard of this happening? :ohdear:

[rubicon]

What we have on our hot water heaters down here is called a Themal Expansion Tank. I've yet to see anywhere, trade publications, code, etc., where they are called compression tanks. Another problem which is common, is that the tanks are not filled with the correct pressure. The pressure should match the water pressure in your house. A recent check of mine revealed it was at 20psi, which is too low. The expansion tanks come set from the factory, but are frequently not checked for correct pressure when the plumbers install them.

Yep that's what the plumber from Mike Scott termed it

[rubicon]

Don't mean to sound neg. but as fast as the contractors put them up & to me when I look around my own house it looks like they don't use top quality materials. They seem to build them just so they last long enough for the warranty to run out, I know some people might read this & think I'm crazy but I'm sure most people don't even know how to change a furnace filter. It's a vendors paradise in TV. Sorry to sound neg. but I do know a little bit about building materials & everyone that have anything to do with any kind of maintenance, selling or vendor are charging to much to get anything done. I've already rebuilt both of my toilets, everything in both bathroom. (Closets) That's the tank that sits on the back of the toilet stool & I'm sure I did it for 1/4 the price that some maintenance guy could of done it for. As far as the valve breaking, yea I can believe it & I bet whoever put the plumbing in didn't replace it for nothing. These homes should be maintenance free for 10 yrs. min.

Its my understanding, if you can believe what people say, that The Villages Developer operated like the general contractor that he bought material by the truck load and that he made it clear what % of profit he required from each unit. for example , a repairman from T&D told me that when jacuzzi went out of business he bought up all of their inventory for spas. I had to replace seals twice in a short period of time tired of the poor quality went outside TV to purchase a more expensive unit.

The 10 year minimum corresponds with the Statute of Repose that covers building structures for 10 years

[photo1902]

The only problem I have with work, is with the plumbing inspector--how can they allow a hot water heater to be installed, with not enough clearance to remove and install a sacrificial anode--its a maintenance item--(electric water heaters)

It's not at all uncommon. In fact, they make sectional anode rods for this very purpose.

[OhioBuckeye]

[/COLOR][/B]

No.

I haven't ever heard of a pipe blowing out of a wall and having the pressure of a fire hose. I haven't heard of a refrigerator blowing up either until one did here in The Villages. It is hard sometimes to know what to believe.

Retiring. You are welcome to visit us and see our home. We think this one and the Camellia we had in Hadley were built just fine. We are not new to home building. All of our homes were new except two. We have lived in ten homes and two were not new. We were part of helping our daughter and son in law build two homes as a nibby parent/consultant.

I totally agree about contractors using trailer park parts. TV let these contractors build homes that only last 5 to 7 yrs. before they can start replacing things in your home. Homes should be trouble free for at least 15 yrs. I'm not saying there won't be some issures that need replaced but it seems like every other home in TV have issues & that's to many. The contractors & TV board have the wool pull over our eyes to make us think that all of these home are top grade, they're not. Oh yea, had to laugh at one of your comments,the valve didn't blow out of the wall it sprung a leak, it didn't come through the wall.