Clarification on AIG..who knew what when...

[Guest]

Watching CNN right now.

Just heard Sen Dodd admit he was not truthful yesterday concerning the writing and revision of the ammendment that allows for the AIG bonus's !! He says that he was urged by ???????...did not name names but implied that it was the WH and Treasury Dept.

Now watching Donna Brazile, a Democrat strategist, say somebody needs to revise the time line put out by the WH last night.

I realize this post is early on with this, but this is absolutely incredible if I am interpeting this correctly and PLEASE correct me if I am...

.....They (WH, Treasury and congress) knew there would be bonus's

.....They added this language in order to prevent any lawsuits against the Govt by those companies that had contracts

.....They (Dodd, WH, and Treasury) have been yelling for days about the outrage and lack of knowledge.

.....They all knew and were lying for the last few days to all of us.

If I am misreading or wrong ...PLEASE correct me !!!

[Guest]

Watching CNN right now.

Just heard Sen Dodd admit he was not truthful yesterday concerning the writing and revision of the ammendment that allows for the AIG bonus's !! He says that he was urged by ???????...did not name names but implied that it was the WH and Treasury Dept.

Now watching Donna Brazile, a Democrat strategist, say somebody needs to revise the time line put out by the WH last night.

I realize this post is early on with this, but this is absolutely incredible if I am interpeting this correctly and PLEASE correct me if I am...

.....They (WH, Treasury and congress) knew there would be bonus's

.....They added this language in order to prevent any lawsuits against the Govt by those companies that had contracts

.....They (Dodd, WH, and Treasury) have been yelling for days about the outrage and lack of knowledge.

.....They all knew and were lying for the last few days to all of us.

If I am misreading or wrong ...PLEASE correct me !!!

Well, does anyone think the Senate Ethics Committee is going to "investigate" the matter?

Please remember all of this when the next election comes along.

[Guest]

Just a side note. They are saying Freddie Mac may need another 150 bill. Did you also know Freddie Mac executives also have a bonus / retention package? They get four payouts this year. No outrage from the administration?

SMOKE SCREEN!

[Guest]

Just a side note. They are saying Freddie Mac may need another 150 bill. Did you also know Freddie Mac executives also have a bonus / retention package? They get four payouts this year. No outrage from the administration?

SMOKE SCREEN!

"Fannie Mae, the federally run mortgage finance giant, plans to pay four top executives $1 million or more in bonuses as part of an employee-retention program"

"Fannie Mae, which suffered $59 billion in losses last year, has requested $15 billion in taxpayer assistance, and has said it expects to need plenty more"


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/18/AR2009031803188.html?hpid=topnews

[Guest]

"Fannie Mae, the federally run mortgage finance giant, plans to pay four top executives $1 million or more in bonuses as part of an employee-retention program"

"Fannie Mae, which suffered $59 billion in losses last year, has requested $15 billion in taxpayer assistance, and has said it expects to need plenty more"


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/18/AR2009031803188.html?hpid=topnews
Gee, and Fannie & Freddie (the deadbeat twins) gave HOW MUCH to candidates, and which ones? But they are now the forgotten twosome as long as big bad AIG is given the headlines by a pliable press.

Giving "employee retention bonuses" to Fannie & Freddie executives is like sponsoring Dr. Kevorkian for the Nobel Prize in Medicine.

[Guest]

Yeah, I know. And if my grasp of what I read (and read again) is right, under the Constitution, the crime of betraying one's country can have only to do with war or security secrets........ Too bad.

Boomer

[Guest]

Yeah, I know. And if my grasp of what I read (and read again) is right, under the Constitution, the crime of betraying one's country can have only to do with war or security secrets........ Too bad.

Boomer

Settle down BOOMER.....There is no time for the Treasury Secy to pay taxes OR to even appoint some help for him, the country is in dire straits, BUT...

The President has completed his NCAA bracket on TV and is jetting to be on Jay Leno's show so you should relax.

[Guest]

Settle down BOOMER.....There is no time for the Treasury Secy to pay taxes OR to even appoint some help for him, the country is in dire straits, BUT...

The President has completed his NCAA bracket on TV and is jetting to be on Jay Leno's show so you should relax.

Aw, Bucco, do I really have to settle down? I was hoping we could march in the streets. Oh, well. I was planning to sign up for golf lessons anyway. (AGAIN!) So I guess I'll just do that instead. -- a hopeless cause, too.

OK. OK. What is that thing I am supposed to think about??? Ah, yes! "Drive for show. Putt for dough." Uh huh. "Drive for show. Putt for dough." I think I got it. "Drive for show. Putt for dough."

Hey Bucco. Thanks for settling me down. I wonder which will be less stressful. Golf lessons? Or political discussions?

Boomer

[Guest]

Yeterday the POTUS came up with a way to save over 500 million bucks a year... Take away the guaranteed and promised federal medical care to wounded war warriors and turn it over to private insurance companies (who profit by denying care). Talk about being out of touch.

[Guest]

but it won't.
It is the administration grasping at straws to make it look like there is an attempt to reduce spending.
Yes while the pork prevails, the bonuses, all known flow to the guys who created the problem and the lunatics in Washington continue to propose evn bigger spending bill....endorsed by POTUS....MORE BILLIONS AND TRILLIONS THAN EVER IN THE HISTORY OF THE usa..... AND WHAT FLOWS TO WE THE PEOPLE?

Did you get your $500 check yet? Don't spend it all in one place.....BS!!!!!!!!!

The tea parties are being had for the wrong reasons. We are being tried on and tested every day.....tax the wealthy...unless you are in office they mean....why do the wealthy Dems always make it look or sound like they are not a part of the so called wealthy....oooppppss I forgot they don't pay taxes anyway...BS again!!!

Also obvious...still....by their absence are the used to be regulars.
Never to be around when meaty specifics are on the table. Nothing ventured nothing gained....I guess.

BTK

[Guest]

Yes, Yes. Change you can believe in.

[Guest]

but it won't.
It is the administration grasping at straws to make it look like there is an attempt to reduce spending.
Yes while the pork prevails, the bonuses, all known flow to the guys who created the problem and the lunatics in Washington continue to propose evn bigger spending bill....endorsed by POTUS....MORE BILLIONS AND TRILLIONS THAN EVER IN THE HISTORY OF THE usa..... AND WHAT FLOWS TO WE THE PEOPLE?

Did you get your $500 check yet? Don't spend it all in one place.....BS!!!!!!!!!

The tea parties are being had for the wrong reasons. We are being tried on and tested every day.....tax the wealthy...unless you are in office they mean....why do the wealthy Dems always make it look or sound like they are not a part of the so called wealthy....oooppppss I forgot they don't pay taxes anyway...BS again!!!

Also obvious...still....by their absence are the used to be regulars.
Never to be around when meaty specifics are on the table. Nothing ventured nothing gained....I guess.

BTKWell, it infuriated Veteran's groups enough that they mobilized such an organized reponse of outrage that the foolish idea was off the table by this am.... except both Fox and Friends and Morning Joe were all over it.
The notion of a proposal like this is so repulsive to anyone with a conscience watching these young amputees struggle to walk again in the Veterans rehab facilities that it has convinced me either Obama has completely lost touch or his advisors (or both) have.

[Guest]

Much like the new adventures of Old Christine, there is nothing new going on here. It is now admitted that democrat congressional leadership, the Secretary of the Treasury and our President deliberate lied to the American people. We have not heard a whopper this big since, "I did not have sex with that woman, Monica Lewinski."

The Obama's 'outrage' was clearly faked and he is trying to kill the subject by saying he'll take responsibility for the bonuses.

What we should worry us even more is the decision in congress to tax these bonuses after the fact. The way this bill is structured would set a precedent that allows congress to tax any group that they want at an absurd level while leaving everyone else's taxes where they are. Who's next? Corporate officers, senior citizens, talk radio hosts? Think about it.

[Guest]

Got a good laugh out of the news tonight showing Pelosi saying in regards to AIG that people need to remember that "we inherited this".

Excuse me but it does not matter when or where this problem started, that does not solve the problem. If the best they can do is continue to blame everyone else then we are truly doomed.

[Guest]

Got a good laugh out of the news tonight showing Pelosi saying in regards to AIG that people need to remember that "we inherited this".

Excuse me but it does not matter when or where this problem started, that does not solve the problem. If the best they can do is continue to blame everyone else then we are truly doomed.

Wonder how they will handle the Fannie Mae bonus's ????/

[Guest]

...
What we should worry us even more is the decision in congress to tax these bonuses after the fact. The way this bill is structured would set a precedent that allows congress to tax any group that they want at an absurd level while leaving everyone else's taxes where they are. Who's next? Corporate officers, senior citizens, talk radio hosts? Think about it.
This appears to be Congressional grandstanding, because the bill to tax these bonuses after-the-fact has the appearance of being an attempt to pass an ex post facto law. In non-legalese, the Constitution nullifies any law which makes an act illegal on a retroactive basis.

The tax-them-until-it-hurts bill offers the appearance of righteous indignation and Congress being on the side of the general public. However, it may be a waste of a lot of money on legislation which may be a toss-in -the-can when it is challenged in any federal district court.

[Guest]

This appears to be Congressional grandstanding, because the bill to tax these bonuses after-the-fact has the appearance of being an attempt to pass an ex post facto law. In non-legalese, the Constitution nullifies any law which makes an act illegal on a retroactive basis.

The tax-them-until-it-hurts bill offers the appearance of righteous indignation and Congress being on the side of the general public. However, it may be a waste of a lot of money on legislation which may be a toss-in -the-can when it is challenged in any federal district court.

Steve, I fully agree that is grandstanding and any such tax will hopefully be tossed out by the courts as being done after the fact. However, the precedent of singling out a specific target group for excessive/punitive taxes will have been set. Congress will be able to do it for any group so long as it is not done after-the-fact. I found it disturbing when asked about this by Jay Leno, President Obama went into the soft shoe routine rather than answer the question.

[Guest]

Where do we sign up at? I mean it seems the only way to settle this mess is to do something about it. Years back we did when the "Motherland" treated our forefathers like that.. I served my time in a country that had nothing to do with me. Bout time to step in and serve my time for a good reason. Now what color uniforms can we get and instead of horses, I say we all ride Hummers and Big 4x4's with .50 Cal on top.

I know kind of far fetched. But seems that will be the only way to make the Gov understand!!!! We need a plan. Lets have a Pint or 5 and discuss this at the 18th hole..

:beer3:

[Guest]

Steve, I fully agree that is grandstanding and any such tax will hopefully be tossed out by the courts as being done after the fact. However, the precedent of singling out a specific target group for excessive/punitive taxes will have been set. Congress will be able to do it for any group so long as it is not done after-the-fact. I found it disturbing when asked about this by Jay Leno, President Obama went into the soft shoe routine rather than answer the question.
For as long as the USA has been in existence, the Legislative Branch has passed (and the then-current Executive Branch has signed) legislation which the Judicial Branch has tossed (once challenged in court) for being unconstitutional. That's the beauty of the trident approach to government - unless all prongs agree, no one can get stabbed.

In this "bonus" matter, it would appear that Article 1, Section 9, third sentence (No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.) applies.

As far as targeting specific groups for what may be called abusive action, challenges are always before courts by plaintiffs claiming negative selective action which violates various civil rights laws, or that the application of any law created a "suspect class" against which selective action was levied.

In short, Congress can trumpet all it wants, and the press will grandstand with them, as sensationalism sells commercial time on the air. In the end, the quiet of the courtroom (or threat of it) brings the merry-go-round back to the starting point.

The trick is to go back to the voting record on any dumb or suspect legislation. If the congressperson voted for it, they either have no knowledge of constitutional law (which questions their capacity to enact legislation) or have training/skill in constitutional law, but have decided to ignore what they know in favor of mugging for the camera.

Again, who are you voting for in 2010, and why?

[Guest]

Where do we sign up at? I mean it seems the only way to settle this mess is to do something about it. Years back we did when the "Motherland" treated our forefathers like that.. I served my time in a country that had nothing to do with me. Bout time to step in and serve my time for a good reason. Now what color uniforms can we get and instead of horses, I say we all ride Hummers and Big 4x4's with .50 Cal on top.

I know kind of far fetched. But seems that will be the only way to make the Gov understand!!!! We need a plan. Lets have a Pint or 5 and discuss this at the 18th hole..

:beer3:A few weeks ago Glenn Beck had a program on that predicted this is exactly what is going to happen... the trigger will be rampant out of control inflation (due to the fed flooding us with worthless dollars) paired with anarchy in Mexico that spills over into the US.... here comes Mad Max.

[Guest]

A few weeks ago Glenn Beck had a program on that predicted this is exactly what is going to happen... the trigger will be rampant out of control inflation (due to the fed flooding us with worthless dollars) paired with anarchy in Mexico that spills over into the US.... here comes Mad Max.

I hope Mad Max has the Interceptor with him. We all talk about what is wrong, but we need to make it happen. Steve Z asked who you voting for 2012? The question is Will Him and VK and others on here run for that office. I have been paying attention to Dklassen's (spelling?) post. Make alot of sense. Something will have to happen or Boston Tea Party all over again. We can all sit and moan about it, or do something. Lets push for a no vote on all that are serving right now. If your in office at this time, it will be against the law for you to run again. Pack the bags, clean out the drawers, hide all the pay-offs you got for voting a certain way and get HIZZLE out of DC-IZZLE.
Yea I speak crazy, maybe alittle out in the left field bleachers. But as I said in an earlier post. Their is only one thing that makes sense right now to say and that is "THAT AINT RIGHT"!!!!!!!!!!!

I would rather be out in the left Field Bleachers instead of saying nothing.

[Guest]

I agree with all these fine posts. This administration is just making me sick to my stomach. I agree with previous posts that I thought it would take us years for Obama to screw this country up. He has done exactly that in what two months??:cus::cus::cus:

[Guest]

I agree with all these fine posts. This administration is just making me sick to my stomach. I agree with previous posts that I thought it would take us years for Obama to screw this country up. He has done exactly that in what two months??:cus::cus::cus:


My fear all along was the election of Obama WITH THIS PARTICULAR CONGRESS was a mistake of grandiose proportion.

Those who advocate kicking these guys out in 2010 are right on, but the next two years just scare me to be frank. There is NO way to stop any of this stuff and we have not even gotten into the unions, the defense cuts, etc.

I have spoken to a few congressman over the years but never made a habit of writing to mine.....THIS is going to be the exception. I may be only one voice but it is all I can do at this moment !

[Guest]

He is using, knowingly or not, what we used to call flash management. When there is no plan and you get off track you don't know where to go because you don't know where you are. When you throw 787 billion at a problem with no plan and no accountability how does one know what to expect when nothing happens?
When you have staff that are just as bad or worse than the entities or persons being corrected, how can there be a raising of the bar.

When there are no knowns, the knee jerk reaction to the current sounds in the air VS KNOWING where one is, the path to be taken....the roadmap....then they flash...do something...anything...what will make who happiest today...how are my ratings....then comes the flashing....much worse than knee jerk response. It is one step below panic.

How easily satisfied we the people are. A populist POTUS, trying to be cool, comfort the rich with a Congress that borders criminal performance...not intent...they are performing criminally.

But they do sound good in the process, eh?

So in the two months with all the consternation that has been generated....just what has come to pass for we the people? Nada, zip, niente.....at least until you get your $600 check:1rotfl:

Change promised.....change he has delivered...what has he delivered thus far....lubrication for the really, really rich to get richer....and these are the ones he does not intend to tax...they make too much!!!!

BTK:crap2:

[Guest]

My fear all along was the election of Obama WITH THIS PARTICULAR CONGRESS was a mistake of grandiose proportion.

Those who advocate kicking these guys out in 2010 are right on, but the next two years just scare me to be frank. There is NO way to stop any of this stuff and we have not even gotten into the unions, the defense cuts, etc.

I have spoken to a few congressman over the years but never made a habit of writing to mine.....THIS is going to be the exception. I may be only one voice but it is all I can do at this moment !

Bucco:
I have to agree with you. I have voted for a Democrat in my district for the last 3 elections because I thought he was fair and on the up and up. I have found out that is is under investigation and also one of the biggest writers of these earmarks. I plan on meeting and talking to Pete Visclosky and hope many more of his constituents do the same. This must stop.
:agree::agree:

[Guest]

Bucco:
I have to agree with you. I have voted for a Democrat in my district for the last 3 elections because I thought he was fair and on the up and up. I have found out that is is under investigation and also one of the biggest writers of these earmarks. I plan on meeting and talking to Pete Visclosky and hope many more of his constituents do the same. This must stop.
:agree::agree:
...so he has had at least 6 years in DC. Isn't there anyone else qualified in the district who isn't looking to make a 20 year (minimum) career 2-years-at-a-time?

An old counselor of mine many years ago once advised me, "If they will tell you the little lie, they will also not hesitate to tell you the big one. You just may not see it coming. Bottom line, liars lie for their benefit, not yours." Good advice!

[Guest]

I agree with all these fine posts. This administration is just making me sick to my stomach. I agree with previous posts that I thought it would take us years for Obama to screw this country up. He has done exactly that in what two months??:cus::cus::cus:

I think Obama is moving so fast is because he knows he will probably be impeached and he wants to finish his agenda before that happens.

[Guest]

My fear all along was the election of Obama WITH THIS PARTICULAR CONGRESS was a mistake of grandiose proportion.

Those who advocate kicking these guys out in 2010 are right on, but the next two years just scare me to be frank. There is NO way to stop any of this stuff and we have not even gotten into the unions, the defense cuts, etc.

I have spoken to a few congressman over the years but never made a habit of writing to mine.....THIS is going to be the exception. I may be only one voice but it is all I can do at this moment !


Been an Independent all my life and I agree with your comments regarding the election. One of the major reasons I would not vote for Obama was my fear of giving total control to a group of Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Dodd, Franks just to name a few. Not to say there are not some suspect Republicans there but giving one group a majority hold spells danger in my book.

I am not much of a fan of polls but I have been watching them lately. I do not understand low 60's for Obama and low 50's for his policies. To me they should go hand in hand. The mid 20' for Congress is easy.