Street Legal carts on the cart paths??????

[Talk Host]

Over the past couple of weeks, I have seen several of the "street legal" carts on the cart trails around the Villages. As you know, they can go about 30 miles an hour, maybe more.

I'm wondering if it's really a good idea to allow any registered vehicles on the cart trails along with walkers, bikers and non registered carts. My thinking is that people aren't expecting to see a cart zooming around the corner at those speeds. I have also seen motor scooters.

Yes, I know some people have souped up their non street carts to go faster, but not quite as fast as the street legal ones.

[Karen83]

Our street legal cart has a switch that will govern it at cart pathway speed.

Of course, maybe some will not use it, but then it would seem that the speed limit that applies to all other carts, would apply to them also. I've seen some carts that are not street legal go very fast!

Let's enforce existing laws before adding more.

We live off of Rainey Trail where there are no paths, and the street legal alllows us easier access to Buena Vista.

[dillywho]

Street legal carts are allowed on the golf courses, so why wouldn't they be allowed on the cart paths? To be on the golf courses, the tires have to meet course specs outlined for all carts. As for the speed, many carts go well above the legal speed that are not street-legal (as previously stated). Everyone should just do the right thing and stay within the legal limits whether in any type of cart or in an automobile.

[katezbox]

On another thread, Bryan gave lots of details on this topic. One of his key points is that there are some streets even the street legal carts can't be on. The speed limit on the cart paths is already defined. It needs to be enforced. Those who own street legal carts and play by the rules shouldn't be penalized because of a few who do not.

Just my opinion - and I know a lot of you will disagree.

k

[chacam]

The speed limit on the cart paths is already defined.

Where is it defined ?

[SteveFromNY]

Where is it defined ?

The only place I recall seeing a speed limit sign is the Morse Ave bridge - 10MPH.
Don't really know if there is a speed limit on the paths. There is a speed limit for carts though, and that's 19.5 or 20, where ever they are (unless they are street legal and then it's 30.
It's all so confusing.
Maybe people could just act responsibly, and drive safely, and we wouldn't need rules and regulations to control their behavior on the cart paths too. Nah, never happen.

[sandybill2]

The only place I recall seeing a speed limit sign is the Morse Ave bridge - 10MPH.
Don't really know if there is a speed limit on the paths. There is a speed limit for carts though, and that's 19.5 or 20, where ever they are (unless they are street legal and then it's 30.
It's all so confusing.
Maybe people could just act responsibly, and drive safely, and we wouldn't need rules and regulations to control their behavior on the cart paths too. Nah, never happen.

:agree:
One thing I have noticed and I'm sure others have as well--there are apparently lots of cart drivers who turn onto the paths at such a speed that they hit the divider--tire prints on most of them--some really bent--some I have seen have actually been knocked down. Too bad there isn't some way to hold those damaging them responsible for their replacement.

[DDoug]

Now let me see my car will fit under the bridges on the path and it is street legal. Now if I dont go over the 20 mph speed does that mean I can drive on the path. What determines what type of vehicile can use those paths. One other question how does a golf cart become street legal and most do not have front brakes,try doing a panic stop at full speed with your cart and see how long it takes to stop.I think you will be suprised. Bottom line respect these little cars they are not toys,they could kill you.

[Whalen]

What about the people in cars who think that 15 to 20 mph is acceptable on Morse, Buena Vista..............It's a long way from Havana to Sumter at 20 mph in a car.:rolleyes:

[katezbox]

Where is it defined ?

19.7 MPH is the allowed speed on the golf cart paths unless posted otherwise

[collection6]

street legal carts are allowed to do 25mph, not 30 as previously stated

[Barefoot]

Bottom line respect these little cars they are not toys,they could kill you.

Well said. :agree:

[Talk Host]

street legal carts are allowed to do 25mph, not 30 as previously stated

Sorry about that. I was misinformed. My neighbor down the street has one and he said his will do 35 and that it is legal. My mistake. His lie

[chacam]

19.7 MPH is the allowed speed on the golf cart paths unless posted otherwise

Where is that stated ? ? What statute ? ?

[dillywho]

Where is that stated ? ? What statute ? ?

If you will simply check with law enforcement, I am sure they can answer both questions. Otherwise, you might attend one of the golf cart safety clinics. You can get the same information there and much more. They are conducted for free by law enforcement.

[GMONEY]

Pretty sure it was in the daily sun about max cart speed is 19.9. Seen a cart getting a ticket the other day by L.S.L

[chacam]

I think that if you post information here, that you should be able to back it up with a source. A lot of what I read here is just someones opinion that is stated as fact and alot of others take it as fact.

Where is it stated anywhere that the speed limit is 19.7, or 19.9, 20, or some other figure? Or where is it stated anywhere that registered vehicles are banned from multi modal paths?

I don't have a dog in either fight, but folks who post opinion as fact make me roll my eyes.

[livsea2]

I think that if you post information here, that you should be able to back it up with a source. A lot of what I read here is just someones opinion that is stated as fact and alot of others take it as fact.

Where is it stated anywhere that the speed limit is 19.7, or 19.9, 20, or some other figure? Or where is it stated anywhere that registered vehicles are banned from multi modal paths?

I don't have a dog in either fight, but folks who post opinion as fact make me roll my eyes.

Welcome to an online forum. Your first time? I kid but the point is you have to take anything posted on this or any forum with many grains of salt. I would say the majority of what is posted is factual but there's a lot of fiction posted as well. Don't believe anything as fact until you research further. Many people just like to hear themselves talk.

[gratton]

Has anybody looked at how wide some of these vehicles are, Its a wonder that somebody hasn't been hit by the mirrors.If you have a multi purpose vehicle then drive it on the road like its designed to. Sure you can drive it on the golf courses no problem with that, but lets face it you know that your over size if you have a Gem or a Think car. I find its not the speed of these cars it there size, I see that the owners of these cars don't drive in the golf cart lane when there on the road but then chose to ride the paths when its convient for them. Thats my opinion

[Talk Host]

I think that if you post information here, that you should be able to back it up with a source. A lot of what I read here is just someones opinion that is stated as fact and alot of others take it as fact.

Where is it stated anywhere that the speed limit is 19.7, or 19.9, 20, or some other figure? Or where is it stated anywhere that registered vehicles are banned from multi modal paths?

I don't have a dog in either fight, but folks who post opinion as fact make me roll my eyes.

I don't think anybody said that registered vehicles are banned from multi modal paths? Where was that stated?

[spk7951]

The VHA golf cart safety clinics have a Lady Lake police officer and a Sumter County Sheriff in attendance to answer any questions about golf carts. We felt it is well worth the time to attend a class.
Having said that I believe the applicable Florida state statute is 320.01(22)

[chacam]

Isn't that what this post is about, registered vehicles on paths? One poster wonders if it is a good idea to allow this. My feeling is that it is not, but nothing to prevent it. Not much differrent between a registered street legal cart and my car. Some of the smart cars are no bigger than a cart. Can they use the paths and if not, why not?

The previous poster has it right, Florida state statute is 320.01(22) is what covers cart speed on the road. What covers it on the paths?

[Karen83]

gratton,

Our street legal is a Columbia Par Car.......the same size as a non street legal Par Car. Do you want more regulations according to size or speed, or both??

Again, I say enforce the speed limit.

[GMONEY]

I think that if you post information here, that you should be able to back it up with a source. A lot of what I read here is just someones opinion that is stated as fact and alot of others take it as fact.

Where is it stated anywhere that the speed limit is 19.7, or 19.9, 20, or some other figure? Or where is it stated anywhere that registered vehicles are banned from multi modal paths?

I don't have a dog in either fight, but folks who post opinion as fact make me roll my eyes.



As far as the speed goes. It was in the Daily Sun and that was information from the SCSO. I thought for a moment and decided let me call a friend of mine at SCSO. Speed limit is 19.9 mph for all Golf Carts on any road or path. Once a Golf Cart exceeds 20 mph it is considered a LSV. ( Low Speed Vehicle). Then it has to be registered and all the whole nine yards. The LSV can cross 466 onto Buena Vista and Morse and soforth and run on streets which the speed limit does not exceed 35mph. If a LSV is on the Cart Path it must mantain no more than 19.9 mph. Once on a street under 35mph it can resume it higher speed. Street Legal. That is the skinny. They said if you are caught going over the 20mph and not a LSV you could be stopped and checked on. Glad your opinion is all fact!!

[katezbox]

Sorry - neglected to state my source. It was a sales rep at TC golf cart store - who I would think would know. As GMoney said - also reported in the Daily Sun.

[Dirigo]

Well said. :agree:

I agree, Bare. Well said, indeed.

[chacam]

As far as the speed goes. It was in the Daily Sun and that was information from the SCSO. I thought for a moment and decided let me call a friend of mine at SCSO. Speed limit is 19.9 mph for all Golf Carts on any road or path. Once a Golf Cart exceeds 20 mph it is considered a LSV. ( Low Speed Vehicle). Then it has to be registered and all the whole nine yards. The LSV can cross 466 onto Buena Vista and Morse and soforth and run on streets which the speed limit does not exceed 35mph. If a LSV is on the Cart Path it must mantain no more than 19.9 mph. Once on a street under 35mph it can resume it higher speed. Street Legal. That is the skinny. They said if you are caught going over the 20mph and not a LSV you could be stopped and checked on. Glad your opinion is all fact!!

With regard to the multi modal paths, this is not true ! ! !
Multi modal paths do not meet the definition of Florida Statute Chapter 316 as a road, street or highway and the SCSO has no jurisdiction to enforce violations on multi modal paths that exist on district property. And the district has no law enforcement ability.

The source of this info is from statements made by Valerie Fuchs, District Counsel, and is in District 3 meeting minutes for January 2009

[Barefoot]

Bottom line respect these little cars they are not toys,they could kill you.

My Columbia Par Car goes 19 MPH. I'm constantly passed by other carts on the multi-modal paths; and they are obviously going way faster. People in a hurry. :shrug: I truly don't understand why everyone is focused on how fast they can go.

[GMONEY]

With regard to the multi modal paths, this is not true ! ! !
Multi modal paths do not meet the definition of Florida Statute Chapter 316 as a road, street or highway and the SCSO has no jurisdiction to enforce violations on multi modal paths that exist on district property. And the district has no law enforcement ability.

The source of this info is from statements made by Valerie Fuchs, District Counsel, and is in District 3 meeting minutes for January 2009

Your might just be the one that passes barefoot. If you dont think that law enforcement can stop you on cart paths, then that explains it.. Nothing else need be said..

[katezbox]

With regard to the multi modal paths, this is not true ! ! !
Multi modal paths do not meet the definition of Florida Statute Chapter 316 as a road, street or highway and the SCSO has no jurisdiction to enforce violations on multi modal paths that exist on district property. And the district has no law enforcement ability.

The source of this info is from statements made by Valerie Fuchs, District Counsel, and is in District 3 meeting minutes for January 2009

If what you state is true, then how has anyone been ticketed for driving too fast in a golf cart path?

Of course, my "source" that people have been ticketed, is a friend living in TV for about 2 years. Maybe he is not credible.

[Talk Host]

I have often wondered about the reality of law enforcement authority on cart/multi modal paths. If those paths were constructed by The Villages, they are private property, aren't they? It would seem that law enforcement has no authority. But then, we don't know the real true answer to this.

I do know that some people have received tickets and that seems real. However, when I was a deputy sheriff, I gave a ticket to a kid that was in a high speed race and accident on a newly constructed portion of highway that was not yet open. He took it to court and the court ruled that the highway had not yet opened to the public and that it was private property and that I had no authority. :cus:

[chacam]

More information here:

http://www.districtgov.org/vccdd/yourdistrict/images/dist3_min_090109.pdf
page 3 (statements by Valerie Fuchs, District counsel)

And here:

http://www.districtgov.org/vccdd/yourdistrict/images/dist3_min_081212.pdf
page 2 (statements by Lt Wolfe, SCSO)

[Talk Host]

I read the minutes, here is the most important point, made by district counsel Valerie Fuchs:

Ms. Fuchs advised, the SCSO (Sumter County Sheriff's Office) has no jurisdiction to enforce violations on the multi-modal paths that exist on District property.

So, who will enforce violations????? Nobody??????:shrug:

[Taltarzac]

I read the minutes, here is the most important point, made by district counsel Valerie Fuchs:

Ms. Fuchs advised, the SCSO (Sumter County Sheriff's Office) has no jurisdiction to enforce violations on the multi-modal paths that exist on District property.

So, who will enforce violations????? Nobody??????:shrug:


There were three exceptions listed for citations. Driving under the influence, reckless driving, and failure to obey traffic signage at intersections were these exceptions.

This is only for Sumter County though. What the cops in Marion and Lake Counties can do within TV probably depends on their policies regarding law enforcement in TV.

[Talk Host]

There were three exceptions listed for citations. Driving under the influence, reckless driving, and failure to obey traffic signage at intersections were these exceptions.

This is only for Sumter County though. What the cops in Marion and Lake Counties can do within TV probably depends on their policies regarding law enforcement in TV.

If they don't have the authority to enforce speed violations, why would they suddenly have authority to enforce other violations. It doesn't make sense legally, I don't think.

JLK

[dillywho]

I have often wondered about the reality of law enforcement authority on cart/multi modal paths. If those paths were constructed by The Villages, they are private property, aren't they? It would seem that law enforcement has no authority. But then, we don't know the real true answer to this.

I do know that some people have received tickets and that seems real. However, when I was a deputy sheriff, I gave a ticket to a kid that was in a high speed race and accident on a newly constructed portion of highway that was not yet open. He took it to court and the court ruled that the highway had not yet opened to the public and that it was private property and that I had no authority. :cus:

Well, I may get kicked off this site for this response, but I think this discussion has just granted permission to anyone to drive any speed or any way they so choose on the paths. Thank you. That just leaves the door wide open for more people to get either seriously hurt or killled on our paths. I do not see the need to go flying down those paths. If one has a need for speed, then how about setting up designated areas for cart races or something so that the rest of us can travel the cart (excuse me, multimodal) paths without fear for our lives. Do those having the souped up carts or those legally allowed to go more than 20 mph have a burning need to show off? The ability to get around by golf cart here is a privilege that can be rescinded by the state if they so choose. It is not a right! I, for one, do not want to have to trailer my cart in order to get to the courses to play or to get my cart to the multimodal paths. I could cite more, but I think you get the picture. I'm just sorry that they cannot write tickets on the paths and if it ever comes to a vote to extend or somehow set up enforcement of speed on those paths, you can bet I will be first in line.

[Talk Host]

Well, I may get kicked off this site for this response, but I think this discussion has just granted permission to anyone to drive any speed or any way they so choose on the paths. Thank you. That just leaves the door wide open for more people to get either seriously hurt or killled on our paths. I do not see the need to go flying down those paths. If one has a need for speed, then how about setting up designated areas for cart races or something so that the rest of us can travel the cart (excuse me, multimodal) paths without fear for our lives. Do those having the souped up carts or those legally allowed to go more than 20 mph have a burning need to show off? The ability to get around by golf cart here is a privilege that can be rescinded by the state if they so choose. It is not a right! I, for one, do not want to have to trailer my cart in order to get to the courses to play or to get my cart to the multimodal paths. I could cite more, but I think you get the picture. I'm just sorry that they cannot write tickets on the paths and if it ever comes to a vote to extend or somehow set up enforcement of speed on those paths, you can bet I will be first in line.

You are not going to get kicked off this site for voicing your opinion. And, I don't think that an open and honest discussion of this topic is "leaving the door open" for anybody to do anything stupid. The stupid people are already doing stupid things. This discussion is not going to take an otherwise responsible individual and turn him into a daredevil. Hiding the facts isn't the solution to solving a problem. Discussing it publicly will help arrive at a solution.

[SteveFromNY]

.... The stupid people are already doing stupid things. ....

:agree: TH, you really hit that nail on the head!!!

[duffertom]

Can't the Districts request that the Sheriffis dept. enforce rules on the paths. It is a public safety issue with walkers and bikes mixing with carts.

[Talk Host]

Can't the Districts request that the Sheriffis dept. enforce rules on the paths. It is a public safety issue with walkers and bikes mixing with carts.

The district has no "law making" authority. Therefore they do not have the authority to make laws or issue authority to a law enforcement agency. Law enforcement can only enforce laws that have been established by a bona fide law making entity.

[Taltarzac]

If they don't have the authority to enforce speed violations, why would they suddenly have authority to enforce other violations. It doesn't make sense legally, I don't think.

JLK

As all kinds of crimes can occur on the Villages' golf courses and the cops can come onto the golf courses to combat these crimes. Burglaries from golf carts for instance as well as thefts of golf carts.

An accident of a serious nature would bring the cops and the emergency vehicles onto the golf courses.

Developers of the Villages would be very hard pressed selling the Villages' if the cops were not allowed to come onto their private property to combat all kinds of crimes.

Access for the public also plays into just how private this property really is. The Villages golf courses are more of a semi-private nature with all the people who show up on them regularly.

I am surprised that the Sumter County Sheriff's Office has not pressed more into enforcing various FL state laws and local ordinances with respect to speeding and the like. Seems this is more of a political solution involving the developers' clout than a legal one.

[Talk Host]

As all kinds of crimes can occur on the Villages' golf courses and the cops can come onto the golf courses to combat these crimes. Burglaries from golf carts for instance as well as thefts of golf carts.

An accident of a serious nature would bring the cops and the emergency vehicles onto the golf courses.

Developers of the Villages would be very hard pressed selling the Villages' if the cops were not allowed to come onto their private property to combat all kinds of crimes.

Access for the public also plays into just how private this property really is. The Villages golf courses are more of a semi-private nature with all the people who show up on them regularly.

I am surprised that the Sumter County Sheriff's Office has not pressed more into enforcing various FL state laws and local ordinances with respect to speeding and the like. Seems this is more of a political solution involving the developers' clout than a legal one.


I'm not talking about felonies. I'm talking about traffic infractions. What's the difference between speeding and reckless driving? Why can they enforce one and not the other?

[KayakerNC]

It could be worse.:beer3:

Ohio man charged with DUI on barstool

NEWARK, Ohio — Authorities in Ohio say the vehicle being used by a man charged with drunken driving was a motorized barstool. Quantcast

Police in Newark, 30 miles east of Columbus, say when they responded to a report of a crash with injuries on March 4, they found a man who had wrecked what appeared to be a barstool sitting atop a deconstructed lawn mower.

Twenty-eight-year Kile Wygle was hospitalized for minor injuries. Police say he was charged with operating a vehicle while intoxicated after he told an officer at the hospital that he had consumed 15 beers. A police report says Wygle also claimed his motorized barstool could go up to 38 mph.

Wygle has since pleaded not guilty and has requested a jury trial.

A simple online search turns up several Web sites devoted to barstool racing.

Copyright ©2008 The Enquirer.

[SteveFromNY]

:beer3:

I saw the picture on yahoo of the barstool. It's hilarious! It's built on a lawn mower. Here's a link to the pic:

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/bar-stool/photo//090331/480/47117fd2178b41b8ba85dce4ec3548f8/;_ylt=AqbeYSqjVCtxBj53JTrVBPwDW7oF

[duffertom]

If the Districts have no law making ability, and it appears nobody else does either, than the stop signs have no meaning on the cart paths.
__________________

[KayakerNC]

:beer3:

I saw the picture on yahoo of the barstool. It's hilarious! It's built on a lawn mower. Here's a link to the pic:

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/bar-stool/photo//090331/480/47117fd2178b41b8ba85dce4ec3548f8/;_ylt=AqbeYSqjVCtxBj53JTrVBPwDW7oF

And now for the video.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/vp/29983242#29983242

:shrug:

[Taltarzac]

If the Districts have no law making ability, and it appears nobody else does either, than the stop signs have no meaning on the cart paths.
__________________

This might be of interest. http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0316/Sec006.HTM

[chacam]

What about places like Spruce Creek or Stone Crest, or Del Webb, which are gated communities, where I think that the roads are not public roads, but private property. How are traffic infractions enforced there? I think they have their own patrol guys but do they have authority to write citations? Do local cops patrol these areas?

[Taltarzac]

What about places like Spruce Creek or Stone Crest, or Del Webb, which are gated communities, where I think that the roads are not public roads, but private property. How are traffic infractions enforced there? I think they have their own patrol guys but do they have authority to write citations? Do local cops patrol these areas?

http://www.tampabay.com/news/humaninterest/article987499.ece

[Talk Host]

http://www.tampabay.com/news/humaninterest/article987499.ece


This story talks about a "community resource" officer at Sun City Center. I think it is time for "community resource" officers in The Villages. We are a city of 70,000 plus.

[dillywho]

This story talks about a "community resource" officer at Sun City Center. I think it is time for "community resource" officers in The Villages. We are a city of 70,000 plus.
:agree:
I agree with you and I don't know how the politics of such works, but if we really are a city, isn't it about time we had a city police force or something such as SCC has with the authority to do something. I, too, don't like being regulated to death; but, it seems as though something needs to be done. We are only growing larger and larger and with the growth more problems are bound to arise. As that article pointed out, some people are bound to go against whatever is right whether in their car or cart....rules are for everyone but them. There are plenty of speeders here and not only in their carts. Drive on Buena Vista at the speed limit and see the glares you get for it. It's ok with me...let 'em glare. My theory is: Just leave home earlier. Example: I got honked at one day for not pulling out into an intersection to complete a left-hand turn on red. If I was going to have to finish turning on red, then that lady behind me would have had to turn on red. When we did get to turn on the next green, she went tearing around me and then turned into Laurel Manor Rec Center, not one of the medical facilities across the street.

[chacam]

The streets and roads in Sun City Center are public roads, The Villages multi modal paths are not.

[Taltarzac]

What about places like Spruce Creek or Stone Crest, or Del Webb, which are gated communities, where I think that the roads are not public roads, but private property. How are traffic infractions enforced there? I think they have their own patrol guys but do they have authority to write citations? Do local cops patrol these areas?

One of the residents of the Dell Webb communities northeast of TV said that the community had invited the Marion County Sheriif's office into their community to give out speeding tickets.

These are on the roads on Dell Webb for cars and other high speed vehicles. He said that he had never heard of a speeding ticket for a golf cart though on Dell Webb.

They do limit access quite a bit to get into Dell Webb unlike almost all of TV including the golf cart paths. You need a sticker or a resident's permission to get into Dell Webb.

[Dirigo]

The ability to get around by golf cart here is a privilege that can be rescinded by the state if they so choose. It is not a right!

Is this true?

[Ooper]

You need a sticker or a resident's permission to get into Dell Webb.

No you don't... just tell them you have a tee time or you are going to the resaturant. They'll give you a temp. pass and let you in.

And also, it is the local municipality that determines if, when and what streets are accessible for use by golf carts, not the state... http://www.starelectriccars.com/Florida%20Law.htm

[downeaster]

Originally Posted by dillywho
The ability to get around by golf cart here is a privilege that can be rescinded by the state if they so choose. It is not a right!

Is this true?

Yes. Dirigo, dillywho is correct. However, it is highly unlikely it will ever happen. Can you imagine the outrage?

I might add, it is also possible to rescind an individuals privilege and much more likely.

[FLBuckeyeIII]

Over the past couple of weeks, I have seen several of the "street legal" carts on the cart trails around the Villages. As you know, they can go about 30 miles an hour, maybe more.

I'm wondering if it's really a good idea to allow any registered vehicles on the cart trails along with walkers, bikers and non registered carts. My thinking is that people aren't expecting to see a cart zooming around the corner at those speeds. I have also seen motor scooters.

Yes, I know some people have souped up their non street carts to go faster, but not quite as fast as the street legal ones.



Why are there golf carts on the ROAD anyways??? Street legal or not!!!

[Ooper]

FLBuckeye, you obviously don't live here yet... let me explain... You have to drive golf carts on roads in order to get to the multimodal trails, golf courses, restaurants, etc. There are only a few houses in TV that have direct access to golf cart trails without going in the road, and these are usually thru their backyards.

[Dirigo]

Why are there golf carts on the ROAD anyways??? Street legal or not!!!

Because its The Villages, and that's what Villagers do! :coolsmiley:

Acutually, the carts operate along side the streets on what would be called a bicycle lane in other localities except for intersections (not including the roundabouts), inside neighborhoods, and downtowns.

Mostly carts travel multi use paths that parallel the main arteries of TV.

Dirigo

[Dirigo]

Originally Posted by dillywho
The ability to get around by golf cart here is a privilege that can be rescinded by the state if they so choose. It is not a right!

Yes. Dirigo, dillywho is correct. However, it is highly unlikely it will ever happen. Can you imagine the outrage?

I might add, it is also possible to rescind an individuals privilege and much more likely.

You ain't seen nothin' like 70,000-100,000 angry senior citizens who had their golf cart priviledges taken away!

Yes, good point downeaster, it is highly unlikely that carts would be outlawed. I hope so anyways, as that is one of the best things about TV IMO.

Dirigo

[FLBuckeyeIII]

FLBuckeye, you obviously don't live here yet... let me explain... You have to drive golf carts on roads in order to get to the multimodal trails, golf courses, restaurants, etc. There are only a few houses in TV that have direct access to golf cart trails without going in the road, and these are usually thru their backyards.

Ooper, I live 2 minutes away from the Villages and have been for over 10 years so "obviously" I know a thing or two... There is NO reason why a golf cart should be on the road if there is a golf cat path right along the side of it, via the lake sumter landing bridge.... I understand about crossing certain roads and such, there is NO reason why a golf cart should be on the same road as 45mph. traffic when there is an accessible golf cart path.... PERIOD.....

[Bogie Shooter]

Ooper, I live 2 minutes away from the Villages and have been for over 10 years so "obviously" I know a thing or two... There is NO reason why a golf cart should be on the road if there is a golf cat path right along the side of it, via the lake sumter landing bridge.... I understand about crossing certain roads and such, there is NO reason why a golf cart should be on the same road as 45mph. traffic when there is an accessible golf cart path.... PERIOD.....
HEY no need to shout!
The speed limit on the Lake Sumter landing bridge is 35 MPH.

[Ooper]

Tsk-Tsk, I agree... no need to shout FLBuckeye, did you have a bad day? If you know a thing or two, you know that 99.9% of the residents here have to travel on a road the second they leave their house. If they don't, they can't go anywhere, why have a cart in the first place then??? I agree, the carts shouldn't use 45 mph roads, besides IT IS against the law. And you are right, they should use accessible cart paths, but they have to be able to get their carts to them. How would you suggest they do that if they don't drive in a road??? And BTW, I wasn't trying to be smart, there are a lot of people who have never been to TV on these forums, and judging by your question, I assumed you were one of these. Now you know 3 things!

[Barefoot]

Why are there golf carts on the ROAD anyways??? Street legal or not!!!

There is something much, much worse than golf carts on the road. :22yikes:

And that is cars on the golf cart paths. I saw another car on the golf cart path north of Parr drive heading toward the underground (Belvedere) tunnel.

That is a dangerous driving mistake .. I just don't understand how it can happen. :shrug: The car had somehow squeezed by the divider post on the cart path .. driving on the grass I guess. There was a lady who had jumped out of her golf cart and was frantically trying to wave the car backward.

:cus:

[GMONEY]

HEY no need to shout!
The speed limit on the Lake Sumter landing bridge is 35 MPH.

Golf cart must use the cart path unless it is street legal then it is a LSV. Low Speed Vehicle and can travel on roads 35 or less. But the speed on the cart path on morse on the bridge I believe is 10mph...

[chacam]

I think that the path over the bridge is part of the multi modal system and as such, the SCSO has no jurisdiction to write citations for speed. The path isn't a public road. Just my opinion.

But, I think, where the SCSO does have jurisdiction, they don't do a very good job. They could station a deputy on Southern Trace or Oak Forest or Belvedere for example and the speeders could pay that deputy's salary and have some left over. According to Lt Wolfe, out of 338 citations issued in Dec & Jan, only 19 of those were issued to golf carts, and probably most of those were for running stop signs. SCSO and Daily Sun talk about cart speed often but it isn't enforced like it should be.

[Taltarzac]

I think that the path over the bridge is part of the multi modal system and as such, the SCSO has no jurisdiction to write citations for speed. The path isn't a public road. Just my opinion.

But, I think, where the SCSO does have jurisdiction, they don't do a very good job. They could station a deputy on Southern Trace or Oak Forest or Belvedere for example and the speeders could pay that deputy's salary and have some left over. According to Lt Wolfe, out of 338 citations issued in Dec & Jan, only 19 of those were issued to golf carts, and probably most of those were for running stop signs. SCSO and Daily Sun talk about cart speed often but it isn't enforced like it should be.


It could even be in the municipality of Lady Lake. I wonder what these city ordinance say about speeding golf carts??

[Bryan]

The "rules" within TV as obtained from the VHA brochure are as follows:

Golf carts may not cross over or drive on Highway 27/441, CR 466, CR 466A, Griffin Avenue or any other road with a posted speed limit of 35 mph or higher. LSV can be operated on a road whose speed limit is 35 mph or less. A golf cart can be operated on a state road that has been designated
and marked for golf cart use.

Golf carts must use the transportation multi-modal trails adjacent to El Camino Real, Buena Vista Boulevard, Morse Boulevard and CR 466 & CR466A. These roadways can only be crossed in a golf cart by using the marked tunnels. The only exceptions are that golf carts can cross El Camino Real at the traffic light between Enrique Drive and Botello Avenue. In addition, while golf carts are not permitted to travel on Rainey Trail (CR 472) they are permitted to cross between Lynnhaven and Miona Shores Drive. LSV are permitted to travel on Rainey Trail since the speed limit is 35 mph.

On streets within The Villages, with a posted speed limit of 30 mph or less, golf carts should be driven in the marked diamond lanes or along the right-hand edge of the street if there is no marked lane.

[Ooper]

There is something much, much worse than golf carts on the road. :22yikes:

And that is cars on the golf cart paths. I saw another car on the golf cart path north of Parr drive heading toward the underground (Belvedere) tunnel.

That is a dangerous driving mistake .. I just don't understand how it can happen. :shrug: The car had somehow squeezed by the divider post on the cart path .. driving on the grass I guess. There was a lady who had jumped out of her golf cart and was frantically trying to wave the car backward.

:cus:

I also saw a car trying to access the Morse Circle from the doctors' parking lot on the NE corner of the circle by squeezing between the divider post and the shrubbery along side the path. Another person had flagged her down and was trying to help her in making a u-turn on the cart path to go back the way she came. She was doing a number on the grass! Where are these people's heads???:faint:

[jww7931]

If a Street Legal cart drives on a multi modal lane, or diamond lane on a village street, is it legal for them to exceed 20 MPH? I was in my golf cart behind a Street Legal cart today on Belvedere in the diamond lane. This street Legal cart was going much faster than me and almost keeping up with the vehicular traffic to it's left. Is that legal?

[Whatever]

I believe that street legal carts are permitted to cross over 466 at Morse Blvd. and on 441 to get from Orange Blossom to Spanish Springs. I would be corrected if someone has different info.

[Barefoot]

If a Street Legal cart drives on a multi modal lane, or diamond lane on a village street, is it legal for them to exceed 20 MPH? I was in my golf cart behind a Street Legal cart today on Belvedere in the diamond lane. This street Legal cart was going much faster than me and almost keeping up with the vehicular traffic to it's left. Is that legal?

A street legal cart can drive on any street (including Belvedere) that has a speed limit of 35 MPH or less. A street legal cart can drive up to 25MPH. They can cross CR 466, but not drive on that road.

[Talk Host]

I personally believe that no registered vehicles should be allowed on he cart paths. Their speeds are considerably higher than stock golf carts, bicycles, walkers and runners. People who normally use the cart paths correctly expect they will only encounter lower speed vehicles. To suddenly be surprised by a 25 or 35 MPH cart or 45 mph motorcycle or motor scooter is an unexpected danger.

[chacam]

I personally believe that no registered vehicles should be allowed on he cart paths. Their speeds are considerably higher than stock golf carts, bicycles, walkers and runners. People who normally use the cart paths correctly expect they will only encounter lower speed vehicles. To suddenly be surprised by a 25 or 35 MPH cart or 45 mph motorcycle or motor scooter is an unexpected danger.:agree::agree:

[golfergal]

street legal golf carts have two speeds, one which goes up to 25-26 MPH (not 30-35 as i've seen some posts report) for street use. the other speed is like any other golf cart, 19-20 MPH. why would you deny a street legal cart, properly traveling at 17-20 MPH, from cart paths? i have been passed at 19 MPH by many carts (mostly gas, which cannot be street legal) where the owner has obviously disabled the governor. the carts that i see speeding along the paths are generally NOT street legal. any cart, street legal or not, where the governor is not allowed to do its job seems to be the real issue here.

[chacam]

street legal golf carts have two speeds, one which goes up to 25-26 MPH (not 30-35 as i've seen some posts report) for street use. the other speed is like any other golf cart, 19-20 MPH. why would you deny a street legal cart, properly traveling at 17-20 MPH, from cart paths? i have been passed at 19 MPH by many carts (mostly gas, which cannot be street legal) where the owner has obviously disabled the governor. the carts that i see speeding along the paths are generally NOT street legal. any cart, street legal or not, where the governor is not allowed to do its job seems to be the real issue here.

IMO, if it is a registered vehicle, it doesn't belong on cart paths !

[golfergal]

I don't get your beef. If LSVs are following the rules of the cart path, what's your issue?

[Challenger]

I don't get your beef. If LSVs are following the rules of the cart path, what's your issue?

Excessive speed while passing walkers , other carts and cyclist.

[golfergal]

Excessive speed while passing walkers , other carts and cyclist.

Why is traveling along the cart paths as other carts do wrong if you're in an LSV? I slow down or stop for cyclists and walkers. It seems the issue of speed and recklessness pertains to any vehicle, but somehow LSVs are singled out as the bad guys.

[dillywho]

Excessive speed while passing walkers , other carts and cyclist.

We get passed all the time by "regular" golf carts on the paths and nearly every one that passes us is electric, not gas. Many of the street legals (I said many, not all) do not and I suspect that is because the owners are aware of the difference in size. Besides, why would they incur the expense involved with them just to be reckless on or off the paths?

Should these people not be allowed on the courses, either? If that's ok, then how would they get there in the first place since at some point it would require travel on a multimodal path?

Just asking.:angel:

[Challenger]

We get passed all the time by "regular" golf carts on the paths and nearly every one that passes us is electric, not gas. Many of the street legals (I said many, not all) do not and I suspect that is because the owners are aware of the difference in size. Besides, why would they incur the expense involved with them just to be reckless on or off the paths?

Should these people not be allowed on the courses, either? If that's ok, then how would they get there in the first place since at some point it would require travel on a multimodal path?

Just asking.:angel:

Valid points-- Maybe our posts will spark some civilized debate. Would like to hear other civil opinions on the issues

[army one]

:BigApplause:

I agree with you Talk Host. Registered vehicles don't belong on the multimodal paths. Included in this group are the mopeds. When the licensed vehicles are on the multimodal paths they for the most part are going over 20 mph and are a cause for concern by everyone else that uses the paths. I have also seen many instances when the cart path is next to a roadway the street legal carts and mopeds weave on the roadway to pass a legal cart on the cart path and then back on the cart path causing all kinds of hazards. I think a lot of the problems are caused because common sense isn't so common anymore.

[Redtail]

Why is traveling along the cart paths as other carts do wrong if you're in an LSV? I slow down or stop for cyclists and walkers. It seems the issue of speed and recklessness pertains to any vehicle, but somehow LSVs are singled out as the bad guys.

these whiners are people who own golf carts and wish they owned a lsv.

[GeorgeT]

:sigh:

[golfergal]

Hadn't thought of that!! :cool:
This is my first time blogging, and I'm just surprised that so many blame the vehicle, not individual behavior as the cause of the problem.

[redwitch]

I'll happily share the multi-modal paths with anyone almost anyone. I do think that if an LSV is going to be on the path, it should be required to follow the speed laws for golf carts, not LSVs. So, if on the path in an LSV, I go about 20 mph, never faster. As a matter of fact, I think LSVs should use the paths -- much safer than doing 25 in a 35 mph zone. I've driven my scooter on the paths many times, but not when there's a lot of traffic using the paths. I keep it at 20 mph when I drive there. Some scooters are pushing it to do 30 mph, so they're really not going that much faster than the majority in the paths (and it certainly isn't difficult to keep a scooter at 20).

[Redtail]

I'll happily share the multi-modal paths with anyone almost anyone. I do think that if an LSV is going to be on the path, it should be required to follow the speed laws for golf carts, not LSVs. So, if on the path in an LSV, I go about 20 mph, never faster. As a matter of fact, I think LSVs should use the paths -- much safer than doing 25 in a 35 mph zone. I've driven my scooter on the paths many times, but not when there's a lot of traffic using the paths. I keep it at 20 mph when I drive there. Some scooters are pushing it to do 30 mph, so they're really not going that much faster than the majority in the paths (and it certainly isn't difficult to keep a scooter at 20).

since lsv's have a speedometer i think you will find that most obey the limits. also these complainers really dont know a lsv from a golf cart in many instances. they just assume its a lsv because they are speeding.

[Challenger]

Hadn't thought of that!! :cool:
This is my first time blogging, and I'm just surprised that so many blame the vehicle, not individual behavior as the cause of the problem.

Obviously the kind of response that I was referring to when I mentioned civility.

[BBQMan]

I'll happily share the multi-modal paths with anyone almost anyone. I do think that if an LSV is going to be on the path, it should be required to follow the speed laws for golf carts, not LSVs. So, if on the path in an LSV, I go about 20 mph, never faster. As a matter of fact, I think LSVs should use the paths -- much safer than doing 25 in a 35 mph zone. I've driven my scooter on the paths many times, but not when there's a lot of traffic using the paths. I keep it at 20 mph when I drive there. Some scooters are pushing it to do 30 mph, so they're really not going that much faster than the majority in the paths (and it certainly isn't difficult to keep a scooter at 20).

I could not agree more. I have an LSV and NEVER drive on roads such as Buena Vista and El Camino Real. Driving a vehicle with a top speed of 25mph on these roads poses a hazard not only to the driver of the LSV but also to normal automobile traffic. I do understand why some people are concerned about the extra wide LSV's but can find no reason for concern with those that have the same length and width as any normal golf cart.

Do I occasionally pass a golf cart on the paths? Yes. However I am more frequently the one being passed rather than the one doing the passing. There are carts doing 30 to 35 mph on the paths, but these are not LSV's. They are normally gas powered golf carts.

[Mikeod]

I was going to start a thread on this subject because I encountered a situation that raised the question in my mind whether LSVs should use the cart lane when on streets such as Bailey Trail where there are only two lanes plus the cart lanes. I encountered a traffic snarl where a person on an LSV was driving in the roadway at about 20 mph with an empty cart lane beside it. There were about a dozen cars backed up behind it. To me, it would reduce the chance for road rage type problems for the cart to use the cart lane where available and would allow motor vehicles to travel at closer to the limit so traffic would move more efficiently. As with any cart, they could merge when approaching a turn.

[petenj]

LSV's have a VIN # and are to be registered as motor vehicles. If signs already are posted to eliminate cars from Multimodal Paths, then why shouldn't LSV's be excluded as well.
How would the LSV drivers like to be passed by my 1800cc motorcycle if I were to operate it on the Multimodal Paths?
I think Multimodal Paths are busy enough with golf carts, bicyclists, walkers, etc.