Cheating on the tee time system

[dp000]

Just heard about some men who have been "stiffing" the tee time system and FINALLY got caught. Don't know all the details, but it seems they have been using ID #s for people who aren't here or who don't play golf. They've been able to play 2-3 rounds a day as often as they want. Hope they have their golfing privileges taken away. No wonder many of us get "bumped" when we put in requests. Hopefully, action will be taken, and not just a slap on the wrist. We all need to unite in support of consequences. If anyone hears the outcome, with the facts, please post it for the rest of us.
One question I have is...how did they get all those ID #'s? (I heard they had upwards of 100.) Someone "within" the system must be providing them ??
If anyone knows more than this, let us know. This is something that affects MANY people, and we should ALL know about it. (Personally, I think this issue should be published with the names !!)
One of the men allegedly said that, if they come up with another system, they will figure it out, also, and "beat" it. Perhaps attorneys and legal action will be needed to solve this. Makes me sad to think we have residents in The Villages who would stoop to this.

[Bogie Shooter]

Just heard about some men who have been "stiffing" the tee time system and FINALLY got caught. Don't know all the details, but it seems they have been using ID #s for people who aren't here or who don't play golf. They've been able to play 2-3 rounds a day as often as they want. Hope they have their golfing privileges taken away. No wonder many of us get "bumped" when we put in requests. Hopefully, action will be taken, and not just a slap on the wrist. We all need to unite in support of consequences. If anyone hears the outcome, with the facts, please post it for the rest of us.
One question I have is...how did they get all those ID #'s? (I heard they had upwards of 100.) Someone "within" the system must be providing them ??
If anyone knows more than this, let us know. This is something that affects MANY people, and we should ALL know about it. (Personally, I think this issue should be published with the names !!)
One of the men allegedly said that, if they come up with another system, they will figure it out, also, and "beat" it. Perhaps attorneys and legal action will be needed to solve this. Makes me sad to think we have residents in The Villages who would stoop to this.
So, where did you hear all this? Too often those "I heard stories" are just that, stories.

[graciegirl]

Sounds kinda fishy to me. They may be able to make reservations but every time I have played golf they carefully check my photo Village I.D.

[dillywho]

Sounds kinda fishy to me. They may be able to make reservations but every time I have played golf they carefully check my photo Village I.D.

This was addressed in the Daily Sun a while back, I think. What they do is use these other ID's to obtain the times since those people won't have any points, and then substitute their regular members after the times are published. This can be easily verified by the tee time administration office. The privileges of those knowingly involved are subject to suspension.

[Dirigo]

Makes me sad to think we have residents in The Villages who would stoop to this.

There are cheats and thieves in all communities at all socio-economic levels. It is part of the human condition to want to "beat" the system whether it is tax evasion or escaping from prison or jumping line.

TV is a great place, but, being populated by human beings, by default must have the same mix of personalities as the "real world", but with a higher percentage of nice folks :oand fewer not nice folks:yuck:.

[rshoffer]

!@@$^%&*$##@%&:cus::cus:

[Indy-Guy]

I was told by a starter that last summer a lady was playing an Executive Course and she had reserved a foursome and only 3 showed up. The starter told the lady that their was a fellow who wanted to play and he was putting him with their forsome. She said we are a foursome and he can't play with us. He asked her where the fourth person was and she said up in Ohio that she always fills out her foursome with this person that is in Ohio and he can't play with them. She said she does this all of the time and had never had a problem before. The fellow said never mind and walked away.

The starter said that they took away her golf privilages for 6 months. There was an article in the Daily Sun it did not give all of the details but it did say that they had taken away some golf priviliges of people who were making tee times for people who weren't here or who don't play golf. It said that it is all in the computer and would be easy to trace.

[OutsiderWithInterest]

Remember, many times, not always, it takes two to cheat. One to use the golfer number of another person, and the second, to give person one your golfer number. Computers can detect only what's given to them, but they cannot detect intent.

There are cases (so I have heard) of people giving out their numbers to neighbors. They don't care since they do not play golf. BAD IDEA. Never give your number to anyone unless you trust them, and if you suspect your number is being used without your knowledge, contact the tee time office and they will make it unusable.

The cheating problem has been on the radar for quite a while, and although it has been curtailed somewhat, elimination of it would come at a price. One that all the honest golfers may dislike. That is why it continues. Price, by the way, doesn't mean money. It means more pain to the golfers in terms of security.

It boggles my mind that someone would fork over two, three, maybe four hundred thousand smackers for a home and then treat their fellow villagers with such disrespect (cheating on the tee time system). It's just inherent with some species that they trash their own den, I suppose.

[graciegirl]

Remember, many times, not always, it takes two to cheat. One to use the golfer number of another person, and the second, to give person one your golfer number. Computers can detect only what's given to them, but they cannot detect intent.

There are cases (so I have heard) of people giving out their numbers to neighbors. They don't care since they do not play golf. BAD IDEA. Never give your number to anyone unless you trust them, and if you suspect your number is being used without your knowledge, contact the tee time office and they will make it unusable.

The cheating problem has been on the radar for quite a while, and although it has been curtailed somewhat, elimination of it would come at a price. One that all the honest golfers may dislike. That is why it continues. Price, by the way, doesn't mean money. It means more pain to the golfers in terms of security.

It boggles my mind that someone would fork over two, three, maybe four hundred thousand smackers for a home and then treat their fellow villagers with such disrespect (cheating on the tee time system). It's just inherent with some species that they trash their own den, I suppose.

Very well said and I also agree with rshoffers post.

[BigGuy]

How do the tee times work at TV?
Is there a lot of waiting?

[rshoffer]

If you use the computer system (an easy learning curve), know your schedule a week in advance, and make "requests", it is extremely efficient. I have been very pleased with every component of this system. You can also make "reservations"within a 72 hr window of your play day.... sounds complicated, it isn't. It is another example of how TV mgt has done their best to make a potentially very complicated process workable/ user friendly.

[sandybill2]

Sounds kinda fishy to me. They may be able to make reservations but every time I have played golf they carefully check my photo Village I.D.

:agree:
I am new to golf but everytime I have played I have had to show either my Village ID or photo ID like a driver's license. I forgot mine once--went back home and got it before I checked in. I asked the starter if I could have played w/out a photo ID and he said definitely not. He stated that they had had some "problems" and no one was allowed to play without a photo ID matching the reservation name.

[texasfal]

The way my neighbor cheats is to initially put in a number for a friend that does not play golf and then once he gets a tee time, he goes into the system and substitutes himself.

[Bogie Shooter]

The way my neighbor cheats is to initially put in a number for a friend that does not play golf and then once he gets a tee time, he goes into the system and substitutes himself.
He is going to get caught and will be upset with a 30 day ban!

[WesternGolfers]

Plan on moving to the villages soon. We planned on playing often
on the executives and once a week on a championships course.
Have seen discussions of the tee time system,difficulty in getting tee times
and have just encountered the "point system". Could someone enlighten me?
Are our plans to play often pie in the sky? Thanks to anyone with information.

[RCT]

Plan on moving to the villages soon. We planned on playing often
on the executives and once a week on a championships course.
Have seen discussions of the tee time system,difficulty in getting tee times
and have just encountered the "point system". Could someone enlighten me?
Are our plans to play often pie in the sky? Thanks to anyone with information. No, you won't have any problem. If you follow the rules, and aren't too "picky" about exact times to play, you will have no problem.

[Ooper]

WewsternGolfers... clicking on the following link should answer most of your questions...

http://www.golfthevillages.com/golf-in-the-villages/GolfingIntheVillages.pdf

[SABRMnLgs]

This is a question coming at you from the opposite side of the fence. The way I understand it, people are upset because others who are outsiders get to play golf (mostly for free?). They pay no golf fees as they do not live here??

I don't play golf, softball, pickleball, tennis, use the squares, pools, trails, etc and very seldom go to a rec center. Any of these folks can use what I have to pay (amenities) since I very, very seldom use them. Guess what I'm trying to say is, you should only have to pay for what you need or use. Now I
know this would cause holy havoc in enforcing it. But shouldn't amenity fees be based on what only I use? Not for someone who plays golf or softball.? I have to pay out my money for stuff I will never use. So let one of the lamebrains use my stuff. Since it is already paid for and I'll never use.

[Bogie Shooter]

This is a question coming at you from the opposite side of the fence. The way I understand it, people are upset because others who are outsiders get to play golf (mostly for free?). They pay no golf fees as they do not live here??

I don't play golf, softball, pickleball, tennis, use the squares, pools, trails, etc and very seldom go to a rec center. Any of these folks can use what I have to pay (amenities) since I very, very seldom use them. Guess what I'm trying to say is, you should only have to pay for what you need or use. Now I
know this would cause holy havoc in enforcing it. But shouldn't amenity fees be based on what only I use? Not for someone who plays golf or softball.? I have to pay out my money for stuff I will never use. So let one of the lamebrains use my stuff. Since it is already paid for and I'll never use.

You knew all that when you bought.

[Russ_Boston]

The way I understand it, people are upset because others who are outsiders get to play golf (mostly for free?). They pay no golf fees as they do not live here?

Don't see how they can play for free unless they have a bogus ID and a photo ID that matches the bogus Villages ID.

When I was there for two weeks I played on both the execs and the CC's many times and was always asked to show both. In the pro shop (on the CC's) and the starter shack.

[katezbox]

People aren't upset because others get to play golf for free...

...except that some did not like that many tee times were reserved for folks on Lifestyles. The developer settled a lawsuit that agrees to limit this.

What most people are upset about - in this thread at least - is someone who does the following. Sabr - let's say that you and I are neighbors. I want to play at 10 on Heron on a Saturday, and I would like my daughter, who does not live in TV to play with us. When I request the tee time, chances are I won't get one during the busy season because I have a guest. This would also be true if one of our foursome had a lot of points due to frequent play and/or cancellations.

So... here's where you come in. Since you aren't a golfer, you have no points and you are a Villager. I ask for your number and make a tee time request with your number and no guests. Once I get the tee time, I swap my daughter (or friend with high points) in place of you. You get a point, but since you don't golf, what do you care?

This scam is not allowed, but goes on constantly.

k

[Bogie Shooter]

People aren't upset because others get to play golf for free...

...except that some did not like that many tee times were reserved for folks on Lifestyles. The developer settled a lawsuit that agrees to limit this.

What most people are upset about - in this thread at least - is someone who does the following. Sabr - let's say that you and I are neighbors. I want to play at 10 on Heron on a Saturday, and I would like my daughter, who does not live in TV to play with us. When I request the tee time, chances are I won't get one during the busy season because I have a guest. This would also be true if one of our foursome had a lot of points due to frequent play and/or cancellations.

So... here's where you come in. Since you aren't a golfer, you have no points and you are a Villager. I ask for your number and make a tee time request with your number and no guests. Once I get the tee time, I swap my daughter (or friend with high points) in place of you. You get a point, but since you don't golf, what do you care?

This scam is not allowed, but goes on constantly.

k
Do that a few too many times and you will be getting a phone call.

[katezbox]

Do that a few too many times and you will be getting a phone call.

Bogie,

I hear you. I know how it is done because I have heard these folk 1. brag about beating the system or 2. complain that with visiting kids/grandkids it is the only way they get a tee time.

It is not something I have done or plan to do. I was replying to Sabr's post that he thought the beef in this thread was about people getting "free" golf. It isn't. The beef is about people cheating the system as in my illustration.

Also, I agree completely with your post on graduated amenities fees. Those who do not golf, swim , play tennis or pickleball etc. knew about the amenity fee and what it supports when they bought here. Reminds of folks in Connecticut who built in a town that still has some family farms. These people wanted to live in the country but wanted the farmers to get rid of the roosters (too noisy!) and the cows (too smelly!).

[Muncle]

We have a bit of a problem with an eight-some we play on an Exec course one afternoon a week. Like most groups of eight, we actually have 10-11 regulars but with vacations, MD appts, etc., we're usually right at 8 by tee time -- sometimes we even have to scramble (no pun intended) for a player or two. One of our most reliables, however, has a problem. He also has a regular game with old friends every week on that morning. (I think these are the only times he plays all week on the Execs, but that really doesn't matter.) So, we cannot put him in the request. Is it wrong to use 8 other regular members for the request, then sub him on the reservation for someone (oh, surprise, Tom's arm is still broken so he won't be playing) that we likely knew was not going to make it? Technically, it probably is. Morally, I really kinda doubt it. :shrug:



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[diskman]

We have a bit of a problem with an eight-some we play on an Exec course one afternoon a week. Like most groups of eight, we actually have 10-11 regulars but with vacations, MD appts, etc., we're usually right at 8 by tee time -- sometimes we even have to scramble (no pun intended) for a player or two. One of our most reliables, however, has a problem. He also has a regular game with old friends every week on that morning. (I think these are the only times he plays all week on the Execs, but that really doesn't matter.) So, we cannot put him in the request. Is it wrong to use 8 other regular members for the request, then sub him on the reservation for someone (oh, surprise, Tom's arm is still broken so he won't be playing) that we likely knew was not going to make it? Technically, it probably is. Morally, I really kinda doubt it. :shrug:



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As I do not play yet I do not know the answer to this question.
If you book for 8 and only 7 show up to play, why is that an issue? Why do you have to add someone?:shrug::shrug:

[Russ_Boston]

Still seems like you're not abiding by the letter or the spirit of the rules. It would be nice if you could add some sort of 'group' invitations but under current rules that doesn't seem possible. In off-season who cares but in-season maybe some do.

[Bogie Shooter]

We have a bit of a problem with an eight-some we play on an Exec course one afternoon a week. Like most groups of eight, we actually have 10-11 regulars but with vacations, MD appts, etc., we're usually right at 8 by tee time -- sometimes we even have to scramble (no pun intended) for a player or two. One of our most reliables, however, has a problem. He also has a regular game with old friends every week on that morning. (I think these are the only times he plays all week on the Execs, but that really doesn't matter.) So, we cannot put him in the request. Is it wrong to use 8 other regular members for the request, then sub him on the reservation for someone (oh, surprise, Tom's arm is still broken so he won't be playing) that we likely knew was not going to make it? Technically, it probably is. Morally, I really kinda doubt it. :shrug:



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If he is able to play why not put him in the request?

[villages07]

.... because you can only put in one advanced request for a person for a given day.

In Muncle's scenario, this fella is in two groups that play the same day (obviously at non overlapping times). He can only be in an advanced request for one of the groups.

In the 3-day out reservation (i.e. open tee times) part of the system, you could book yourself all day long into open spots, as long as times don't overlap.

[Muncle]

Still seems like you're not abiding by the letter or the spirit of the rules. It would be nice if you could add some sort of 'group' invitations but under current rules that doesn't seem possible. In off-season who cares but in-season maybe some do.


Russ, the system does have a "group" capability that I dearly love in that I can go in and select X courses and put a reasonable time span. Then I can list 8 (or 12) players by name and number. The system automatically puts us in 2 or 3 consecutive tee times on the same course, dividing the players by the order in which they were submitted. During high season, we had no problem getting the eight-some in every week, generally getting FDR, Truman, Bacall, or Bogie, our favorite courses anyway. During Spring, we expanded to 12-somes a couple times and had no problem, but I don't know how successful we would be with 12 in high season.

Re the question about why we want to have full foursomes/eightsomes, we play a very relaxed scramble and there's always a chance that if we were to pick up a walk-on spare at the course, he might not appreciate our demeanor and why ruin someone's outing. If we play with one team having only 3 players, we work around that with extra shots. But nobody really cares who wins after the first 3 minutes of bragging are over.



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