Morse bridge

[ugotme]

Perhaps I have not done enough reading on this matter.use

Since most Villagers use this bridge at one time or another, why isn't the cost of repairs (updates) being absorbed by ALL Villagers.

Does this have something to do with it being in a certain County?

[theorem painter]

Since most Villagers use this bridge at one time or another, why isn't the cost of repairs (updates) being absorbed by ALL Villagers.



My question is since it's a county road why isn't the cost of repairs being paid for by the county.

[Bogie Shooter]

That other news site has some of your answers.

[ureout]

Perhaps I have not done enough reading on this matter.use

Since most Villagers use this bridge at one time or another, why isn't the cost of repairs (updates) being absorbed by ALL Villagers.

Does this have something to do with it being in a certain County?


funny things that happen when communities are built... I live in Marion Co. village of Springdale for over 14yrs....a couple years after buying my home I found out that all of Marion Co. Village residents are responsible for maintenance and repair on ALL of our roads except Buena Vista...even though all villagers and outside traffic can use them...apparently when the developer made the deal with Marion Co. years ago to build homes here it was with the understanding that the county would not accept the roads in there maintenance budget ....hmmm I do not remember being told that by the sales dept. so the outcome is that district 4 has set up a special fund for our road repairs...that "we" pay into

[njbchbum]

My question is since it's a county road why isn't the cost of repairs being paid for by the county.

From what I have read it is because the road and bridge are not the problem. The land on which the structure is built is failing - and that land is owned by the area districts rather than all of the districts.

[ureout]

From what I have read it is because the road and bridge are not the problem. The land on which the structure is built is failing - and that land is owned by the area districts rather than all of the districts.

this bridge/road was built was over a marshy/bog area, who was the engineering firm that hired to do core samples of the soil? I would think they would hold some responsibility

[Topspinmo]

Perhaps I have not done enough reading on this matter.use

Since most Villagers use this bridge at one time or another, why isn't the cost of repairs (updates) being absorbed by ALL Villagers.

Does this have something to do with it being in a certain County?

No, it's not use by All villagers. I live in district 4 and only been over that bridge 2 times and that was just for site seeing.

If I go to Spanish springs I don't go over it cause it out of the way. If I go south villages it out of my way also cause I go straight down BV. If I go to S. landing it's still out of my way due to straight down BV.

[Topspinmo]

funny things that happen when communities are built... I live in Marion Co. village of Springdale for over 14yrs....a couple years after buying my home I found out that all of Marion Co. Village residents are responsible for maintenance and repair on ALL of our roads except Buena Vista...even though all villagers and outside traffic can use them...apparently when the developer made the deal with Marion Co. years ago to build homes here it was with the understanding that the county would not accept the roads in there maintenance budget ....hmmm I do not remember being told that by the sales dept. so the outcome is that district 4 has set up a special fund for our road repairs...that "we" pay into

District 4 must have contract with lady lake? Cause when water leak was repaired in the street lakes lake city workers patched it and they done excellent job. Smooth as glass, can't be even feel it when golf cart goes over it.

[theorem painter]

this bridge/road was built was over a marshy/bog area, who was the engineering firm that hired to do core samples of the soil? I would think they would hold some responsibility

I believe it is the same engineering firm that came up with the options to fix the bridge.

[njbchbum]

this bridge/road was built was over a marshy/bog area, who was the engineering firm that hired to do core samples of the soil? I would think they would hold some responsibility

Don't know the history back to that point. Would have to guess at what the work specs and contract liabilities - if any - were specified.

Bridge is but 12 years old - papers should be in someone's office; but I have not read of anyone taking the initiative to go and find them.

[Bjeanj]

In Dec 2010, there was a thread on TOTV titled "bridge sinking????"

Interesting.

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-non-villages-discussion-93/bridge-sinking-34024/?highlight=Bridge

[ureout]

District 4 must have contract with lady lake? Cause when water leak was repaired in the street lakes lake city workers patched it and they done excellent job. Smooth as glass, can't be even feel it when golf cart goes over it.


lady lake isn't in marion co....and yes I would think if we have a problem with a utility that they would do the repairs....I was talking about normal wear of the roads

[chuckinca]

If it is a marshy/boggy area, wonder why the engineer didn't require piles to support it?

Does the fix require piles to fix it?

.

[Jim 9922]

It is not the road that is failing. It is the pile of sandy soil and rocks the developer dumped next to the road to make a "park" in the middle of the lake that the developer's entities "owns". The "lake" was dredged out deepening an old peat bog that was being mined (or had been) when the developer originally bought it.
What is really sad is that the CDD's can't wait to spend $1.4 million to save a few trees from falling into the developer's lake but have so far avoided trying to correct the very dangerous golf cart crossover in front of the Hy 466 and Morse gate. All carts traveling South to the Hy 466 tunnel must negotiate the "Russian Roulette Crossover" first entering and crossing 2 lanes of southbound cars and then crossing 2 lanes of northbound traffic traveling thru the gates as fast as the gatekeepers can keep the gates open.
Originally a bad design just waiting for a fatal accident to happen. But CDD believes saving a few trees and a sun watchers' parking lot more important.

[DonH57]

It is not the road that is failing. It is the pile of sandy soil and rocks the developer dumped next to the road to make a "park" in the middle of the lake that the developer's entities "owns". The "lake" was dredged out deepening an old peat bog that was being mined (or had been) when the developer originally bought it.
What is really sad is that the CDD's can't wait to spend $1.4 million to save a few trees from falling into the developer's lake but have so far avoided trying to correct the very dangerous golf cart crossover in front of the Hy 466 and Morse gate. All carts traveling South to the Hy 466 tunnel must negotiate the "Russian Roulette Crossover" first entering and crossing 2 lanes of southbound cars and then crossing 2 lanes of northbound traffic traveling thru the gates as fast as the gatekeepers can keep the gates open.
Originally a bad design just waiting for a fatal accident to happen. But CDD believes saving a few trees and a sun watchers' parking lot more important.

What I've never understood is the roulette crossover that could have been avoided by a continuous cart path all the way south bound on morse from Hacienda hills country club down.The partial path runs down there still but used a lot by walkers. Not enough room? Looks like there is to me. Just my opinion.:popcorn:

[Kup Kake]

I will never understand how a public road could be built by the county on private land.
I will never understand why only a certain "group" (for lack of a better term) is responsible for paying for the repair, and not others .
I will never understand why Morse is not accepting any responsibility as developer, for forking up some of the cost. OR
I will never understand why Morse and/or the county is not accepting responsibility for the cost of the entire "fix."

We will never know the beginning or exactly how this all came to pass,
what deals were made, if someone was paid off, etc., etc., etc.,
but I definitely smell a fish,and here we are -- holding the bag.

[ColdNoMore]

It is not the road that is failing. It is the pile of sandy soil and rocks the developer dumped next to the road to make a "park" in the middle of the lake that the developer's entities "owns". The "lake" was dredged out deepening an old peat bog that was being mined (or had been) when the developer originally bought it.
What is really sad is that the CDD's can't wait to spend $1.4 million to save a few trees from falling into the developer's lake....

You've nailed it. :thumbup:

I've read the entire engineer's report and nowhere does it mention anything regarding danger to the bridge piers sinking/eroding, as it seems the only concern is one of aesthetics and the loss of a little shoreline on a man-made island.

This from a small lake that doesn't even have tides, or any running water/significant hydraulic action to speak of.

A small ring of class 2 rip-rap, that would soon be covered by natural vegetation, would easily solve this issue...for substantially less than $1.4 million.

Regardless of what is eventually done, this cost should actually be born by the developer (who allowed the original design), but at a minimum be spread out to all who use the bridge regularly.

Which to me would include all homes down to at least the Mallory area, if not all the way to Havana...AND every single business in LSL.

Heck, I very rarely even use the bridge, but I would have no problem if an assessment was made for every owner in TV (even though I believe the developer should be liable for all of the costs)...including myself.




.... but have so far avoided trying to correct the very dangerous golf cart crossover in front of the Hy 466 and Morse gate. All carts traveling South to the Hy 466 tunnel must negotiate the "Russian Roulette Crossover" first entering and crossing 2 lanes of southbound cars and then crossing 2 lanes of northbound traffic traveling thru the gates as fast as the gatekeepers can keep the gates open.
Originally a bad design just waiting for a fatal accident to happen. But CDD believes saving a few trees and a sun watchers' parking lot more important.
You nailed it again.

This ridiculous design is a disaster. :oops:

I wonder if the same engineering firm that charged an astounding $75K for looking at the simple Morse Island issue...are also the geniuses (being facetious of course) that designed this little Russian Roulette X-Over? :ohdear:

[rjn5656]

Shut the bridge down, it will get the developers attention and a lot of publicity he doesn't want.

[Madelaine Amee]

It is not the road that is failing. It is the pile of sandy soil and rocks the developer dumped next to the road to make a "park" in the middle of the lake that the developer's entities "owns". The "lake" was dredged out deepening an old peat bog that was being mined (or had been) when the developer originally bought it.
What is really sad is that the CDD's can't wait to spend $1.4 million to save a few trees from falling into the developer's lake but have so far avoided trying to correct the very dangerous golf cart crossover in front of the Hy 466 and Morse gate. All carts traveling South to the Hy 466 tunnel must negotiate the "Russian Roulette Crossover" first entering and crossing 2 lanes of southbound cars and then crossing 2 lanes of northbound traffic traveling thru the gates as fast as the gatekeepers can keep the gates open.
Originally a bad design just waiting for a fatal accident to happen. But CDD believes saving a few trees and a sun watchers' parking lot more important.

The "lake" was dredged out deepening an old peat bog that was being mined (or had been) when the developer originally bought it.

When we bought here, not too many years ago, you could still see trucks coming and going from the bog mining operation, I believe it was a Black Cow project. We were beyond amazed when they shut it all down and started to drain and fill the land to build houses on it. At some time in the future Mother Nature will want her piece of the pie back!

[TVMayor]

As build out comes closer the more likely it is the island will see a new village built.:1rotfl:

[graciegirl]

Here is a bridge thread. https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/shoreline-eroding-land-under-bridge-123019/?highlight=Morse+Bridge

Has anyone living here been assessed anything? We are past nine years and we haven't ever been assessed anything.

[Jim 9922]

I agree that pounding in rip-rap would do the trick. Dump a few truckloads of that rocks in front to cover it up and all is good. Even better, allow the residents to fish in this "private lake" for which we have to pay to repair and upkeep. It is my understanding no one is allowed to "use" the lake unless you have formal permission from the developer (e.g. dragon boating, sailing club), and certainly no fishing from any of the "public" banks and open areas including the park area under discussion.

[Polar Bear]

As build out comes closer...

Good one!! :1rotfl:

[Warren Kiefer]

this bridge/road was built was over a marshy/bog area, who was the engineering firm that hired to do core samples of the soil? I would think they would hold some responsibility

I am a Civil Engineer. I supervised the building of bridges for 35 years. A bridge failure like this is 100% a engineering mistake.

[graciegirl]

I am a Civil Engineer. I supervised the building of bridges for 35 years. A bridge failure like this is 100% a engineering mistake.

I don't know how you can say that when the strata here can have a sinkhole at any time. Shale. Shale. Shale.

A million dollars is not excessive when you think that is the cost of two or three homes. I imagine that the money was budgeted for repairs of this nature and just like everything else we will never have to have any change in our amenity fees or other fees.

[outlaw]

I don't know how you can say that when the strata here can have a sinkhole at any time. Shale. Shale. Shale.

A million dollars is not excessive when you think that is the cost of two or three homes. I imagine that the money was budgeted for repairs of this nature and just like everything else we will never have to have any change in our amenity fees or other fees.

What!?

[graciegirl]

FGS - Sinkholes in Florida (http://dep.state.fl.us/geology/geologictopics/sinkhole.htm)

[outlaw]

Compared to the cost for Elon Musk to send men to Mars, $1.4 million is not that much. It seems reasonable to me.

[RickeyD]

Compared to the cost for Elon Musk to send men to Mars, $1.4 million is not that much. It seems reasonable to me.



A bridge where no other bridge has gone before ?

[Harry Gilbert]

"I am a Civil Engineer. I supervised the building of bridges for 35 years. A bridge failure like this is 100% a engineering mistake."

I don't know how you can say that when the strata here can have a sinkhole at any time. Shale. Shale. Shale.

A million dollars is not excessive when you think that is the cost of two or three homes. I imagine that the money was budgeted for repairs of this nature and just like everything else we will never have to have any change in our amenity fees or other fees.

I would have assumed the engineer would be the expert on engineering issues. Boy was I wrong.

[RickeyD]

I am a Civil Engineer. I supervised the building of bridges for 35 years. A bridge failure like this is 100% a engineering mistake.



http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161005/e4992916f7e1b212209ce36ce1faa9f5.gif

So, you weren't around in 1940 ?

[graciegirl]

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/bridge-lake-sumter-landing-142348/?highlight=bridge+repair

[graciegirl]

There are those who will have conspiracy theories no matter what. There are those like me that think the developers have done a really good job planning and building this place.

Here is something I found. A Million and a quarter seems like a reasonable amount to fix this bridge.

http://www.dot.state.fl.us/planning/policy/costs/Bridges.pdf

[Jim 9922]

From what I read, it seems that the bridge structures, the roadway and underlying supports are all good. If not, the County would fix it because it is their road. The problem is just the erosion of the pile of sand, dirt and small rocks that the developer dumped into the middle of a mined peat bog to create the "park". Apparently the powers to be didn't have the common sense to realize that the constant wave action from the trending wind direction washes away such unprotected fill. There are no sink holes creating the erosion problem. Anyway, a really good sinkhole would probably drain most of the lake and such a sinkhole would be very evident.
What is really sad is that we, the residents, probably have already "paid" once for the island as part of some bonded infrastructure cost when that section of The Villages was developed!!

[TVMayor]

Compared to the cost for Elon Musk to send men to Mars, $1.4 million is not that much. It seems reasonable to me.
Mars, good one. It was said on the news that within 100 year after the first manned launch to Mars, a million people will live on Mars. If a real estate person wants to show you a house on Mars you should know the summertime temperature is 70F and the winter temperature is -195F below zero. The oxygen content of the Martian atmosphere is only 0.13 percent, compared with 21 percent in Earth's atmosphere. Carbon dioxide makes up 95.3 percent of the gas in the atmosphere of Mars. Take plenty of bottled water and oxygen on your trip.

[ColdNoMore]

There are those who will have conspiracy theories no matter what. There are those like me that think the developers have done a really good job planning and building this place.

Here is something I found. A Million and a quarter seems like a reasonable amount to fix this bridge.

http://www.dot.state.fl.us/planning/policy/costs/Bridges.pdf

That link is for budgeting purposes to build a NEW bridge...from scratch.

What is being proposed, has absolutely nothing to do with the bridge structure itself (especially building a new one :oops:)...it is purely erosion of the edges of the island itself.

[ColdNoMore]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161005/e4992916f7e1b212209ce36ce1faa9f5.gif

So, you weren't around in 1940 ?

Actually, the Tacoma Narrows Bridge disaster...was the engineers fault. :shrug:


Tacoma Narrows Bridge collapse - Failure magazine (http://failuremag.com/feature/article/suspended_animation/)


While it’s unclear whether the Narrows’ principal engineer, Leon Moisseiff, was aware of the problems plaguing these other new bridges (he almost certainly was), he argued for cost-cutting adjustments to the original design and against initiatives that would detract from the bridge’s appearance.

Meanwhile, an advisory engineer named Theodore Condron strongly and repeatedly urged that the Tacoma Narrows be built at least 25% wider. Condron, a lone dissenter, was ignored, though his fears quickly proved justified as the bridge began behaving abnormally even during the construction process.

[Polar Bear]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161005/e4992916f7e1b212209ce36ce1faa9f5.gif

So, you weren't around in 1940 ?
Not sure of your point. The Tacoma Narrows bridge failure definitely WAS due to faulty engineering design.

[RickeyD]

Not sure of your point. The Tacoma Narrows bridge failure definitely WAS due to faulty engineering design.

Warren wasn't there to supervise it's construction, hence it fell. :beer3:

[ColdNoMore]

Warren wasn't there to supervise it's construction, hence it fell. :beer3:

In that context...good point. :thumbup:

[Jakel]

Make it a toll bridge until it's paid for.

[Cathy H]

this bridge/road was built was over a marshy/bog area, who was the engineering firm that hired to do core samples of the soil? I would think they would hold some responsibilityyou must know by now the "family" hired the cheapest help and did no underground investigation

[Kup Kake]

Here is a bridge thread. https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/shoreline-eroding-land-under-bridge-123019/?highlight=Morse+Bridge

Has anyone living here been assessed anything? We are past nine years and we haven't ever been assessed anything.

I don't know how you can say that when the strata here can have a sinkhole at any time. Shale. Shale. Shale.

A million dollars is not excessive when you think that is the cost of two or three homes. I imagine that the money was budgeted for repairs of this nature and just like everything else we will never have to have any change in our amenity fees or other fees.

Uhhhhhh . . . It appears that you are missing the point. No one is saying anything about a special assessment -- in the past, now or in the future. A special assessment has nothing to do with this.

What bothers people is not the cost, but the way things are done. That only people paying are from certain districts when it is a public street that can be used by anyone in the world. That some "real" facts are swept under the rug, or the bridge in this case. What are they? Who knows??!? That the people who should be responsible for paying for any necessary repair should be the county and Morse (a public street built on private land).

Now do you get it?

[Kup Kake]

There are those who will have conspiracy theories no matter what. There are those like me that think the developers have done a really good job planning and building this place.

Here is something I found. A Million and a quarter seems like a reasonable amount to fix this bridge.

http://www.dot.state.fl.us/planning/policy/costs/Bridges.pdf

Then let Morse and the county fight over who should be paying for the repair between the two of them, and not put the unfair burden of the cost on residents!