Move your money from Fidelity to Vanguard

[paperclip202]

I have always been a huge fan of Vanguard over Fidelity.

Vanguard has significantly lower fees. Fees matter!
They are structured as a mutual company and put their clients first.
They continue to innovate with new products.
They have some great LifeStrategy funds that give you great diversification in 1 fund. Simple!
60 stocks/40 bonds- Vanguard LifeStrategy Mod Gr. VSMGX - expense .14%
40 stocks/ 60 bonds - Vanguard LifeStrategy Conservative Gr. VSCGX - expense .13%

By contrast, Fidelity is very expensive and consistently puts the interest of the Family (the Johnson Family are billionaires!) before everyday investors. Some people even pay Fidelity 1% additional fee to manage their money!

Take your money someplace else. Hire someone who is fee only (not fee based) and a fiduciary for YOU!

Read this scathing article from Reuters!

How the owners of Fidelity get richer at everyday investors’ expense - Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-fidelity-family/)

Good luck!

[manaboutown]

I gave up on Fidelity back in the late 1960's. They were splitting my trades to double their commissions. When i called them on it they laughed. I never, ever use them!

[l2ridehd]

Good advice. I have used Vanguard for many years and they do an excellent job. The Wellington and Wellesley funds are two of the best in the industry and there index funds are some of the lowest expense ratios available. However I also use Fidelity and Schwab on a somewhat limited basis for speciality products. It's hard to beat the Schwab investor checking account with a debit card. No fees anywhere in the world and VERY competitive exchange rates for other currency. If you travel out of the US anywhere that one card is the least expensive way to handle foreign exchange and ATM's

[manaboutown]

Good advice. I have used Vanguard for many years and they do an excellent job. The Wellington and Wellesley funds are two of the best in the industry and there index funds are some of the lowest expense ratios available. However I also use Fidelity and Schwab on a somewhat limited basis for speciality products. It's hard to beat the Schwab investor checking account with a debit card. No fees anywhere in the world and VERY competitive exchange rates for other currency. If you travel out of the US anywhere that one card is the least expensive way to handle foreign exchange and ATM's

I retain lesser accounts at brokerages other than Vanguard as well. The Schwab debit card is unbeatable to my knowledge, both in the USA and abroad. It even refunds me the $5.00 ATM fees that the developer's Citizen's First Bank charges for out of network cards in The Villages.

[Allegiance]

Time to get out of stocks and buy Villages real estate.

Mark my words. ;)

[ColdNoMore]

I have always been a huge fan of Vanguard over Fidelity.

Vanguard has significantly lower fees. Fees matter!
They are structured as a mutual company and put their clients first.
They continue to innovate with new products.
They have some great LifeStrategy funds that give you great diversification in 1 fund. Simple!
60 stocks/40 bonds- Vanguard LifeStrategy Mod Gr. VSMGX - expense .14%
40 stocks/ 60 bonds - Vanguard LifeStrategy Conservative Gr. VSCGX - expense .13%

By contrast, Fidelity is very expensive and consistently puts the interest of the Family (the Johnson Family are billionaires!) before everyday investors. Some people even pay Fidelity 1% additional fee to manage their money!

Take your money someplace else. Hire someone who is fee only (not fee based) and a fiduciary for YOU!

Read this scathing article from Reuters!

How the owners of Fidelity get richer at everyday investors’ expense - Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-fidelity-family/)

Good luck!

In the interest of full disclosure, what is your affiliation/relationship with Vanguard?

While I use Vanguard also, your posts seem to indicate you're more than just an interested investor. :shrug:

[Stdole]

I do business with both Fidelity and Vanguard (and T.Rowe Price) for different types of Investments.
The Fidelity Office in The Villages is one of the best Brokerage Offices available any where and we are
so lucky to have them at Sumter Landing. Take for instance Estate Planning with Fidelity or Price
is not available on a one on one meeting.. You cannot meet with Vanguard on a moments notice in
person unlike Fidelity. Again different investments.. I am not aware of the office within
Florida for Vanguard.

[RickeyD]

Time to get out of stocks and buy Villages real estate.

Mark my words. ;)



You have inside info ? [emoji850]

[paperclip202]

No conflict of interest, just my thoughts from decades of using Vanguard. Way too many people in TV use funds that charge .8% to 1.2% and then they pay their Advisor 1% to 1.5%! So they are paying $18k to $20k+ in investing cost per $1 million. This is way too high! Times have changed and fees matter. In fact, if you just buy the funds that have the lowest 25% of fees (say .03% to .6%), you stand a pretty good chance of getting good long-term results.

Now that I think of it. If you own Vanguard funds or ETF's, we are all owners of Vanguard (congrats!). iShares and other low cost ETF's are also great.

Why ownership matters at Vanguard (https://about.vanguard.com/what-sets-vanguard-apart/why-ownership-matters/)

https://about.vanguard.com/img_files/what-sets-vanguard-apart/why-ownership-matters/client_owned_FINAL.png

Good luck!

[tcxr750]

After 15 years of paying advisors their one percent annual fee I've decided it's time to move my IRA to Vanguard. A year ago I created several model portfolios. One based on my current professionally managed IRA. This portfolio consists of 28 different funds and etfs.
Another based on a portfolio designed on the Vanguard website consisting of four funds. Plus two others. Bottom line the four fund Vanguard folio matches in performance the professionally managed fund , without the one percent fee.
That one percent fee is significant. If you take out four percent a year, the one percent fee equals 20% of the $$$ coming out of your account. Of course with Vanguard you don't get the free cup of coffee that is offered when you meet with your advisor.

[msfooter]

After 15 years of paying advisors their one percent annual fee I've decided it's time to move my IRA to Vanguard. A year ago I created several model portfolios. One based on my current professionally managed IRA. This portfolio consists of 28 different funds and etfs.
Another based on a portfolio designed on the Vanguard website consisting of four funds. Plus two others. Bottom line the four fund Vanguard folio matches in performance the professionally managed fund , without the one percent fee.
That one percent fee is significant. If you take out four percent a year, the one percent fee equals 20% of the $$$ coming out of your account. Of course with Vanguard you don't get the free cup of coffee that is offered when you meet with your advisor.

I would be very interested in leaning more about the "Vanguard four" including percentages and the "two other" funds. Please share your success with us. Jimmie

[petsetc]

Also, please look at paulmerriman-dot-com who offers FREE info as well as a recommendation for model portfolios at Vanguard, T Rowe Price and Fidelity. Also, several free eBooks titled "Get Smart or Get Screwed", "First-Time Investor", and "101 Investment Decisions".

He is a retired investment advisor and now offers free help to others.

[retiredguy123]

Financial planning and investing are too important to trust to an "advisor". This is a do it yourself project. Advisors always have a conflict of interest. And, for the do it yourselfer, Vanguard is the best company to do your investing with because of their low costs.

[mark47]

I've been with Vanguard and Fidelity for many years. Last year about 47K was stolen from a IRA I had with Vanguard. Took many many months to get the money back. I also learned that Vanguard doesn't necessarily get your money back. Fidelity has a different policy regarding stolen money. Just saying.

[RickeyD]

I've been with Vanguard and Fidelity for many years. Last year about 47K was stolen from a IRA I had with Vanguard. Took many many months to get the money back. I also learned that Vanguard doesn't necessarily get your money back. Fidelity has a different policy regarding stolen money. Just saying.



How does money get stolen from an IRA ???

[retiredguy123]

I read both the Vanguard and Fidelity policies regarding stolen money. They look very similar to me. Both companies will reimburse your money if it is lost or stolen through no fault of the customer. Both companies require that you are not negligent with the account. If Fidelity is better than Vanguard, I would like to know how.

[mark47]

Someone hacked my account. I reported the day after it happened, they traced the money to a fake account in another bank. It was pretty obvious to me that it wasn't me "stealing' my own money. Took months to get the money back and lots of paperwork. I'm told there is no guarantee with Vanguard, its a case by case basis. Fidelity has some kind of insurance for theft. Still have accounts at both but at Vanguard any money coming out has to be a check, not electronic.

[justjim]

How does money get stolen from an IRA ???

I would like to know too. Oops I now see you did answer.

[Boomer]

........

[shumbapie]

If Fidelity is so awful why are they still in business? If you don't trade much, don't pay Fidelity to manage your money and invest in a low cost ETF/mutual fund there is not a lot of additional expense in working with Fidelity instead of Vanguard. Just knowing that you can go to the Fidelity office and grab a broker by the tie if you have a problem is worth something. I've worked with both Fidelity and Vanguard over the years and there are things I like and dislike about both of them.

[retiredguy123]

I still cannot find any difference between Vanguard and Fidelity regarding lost or stolen money. Both companies will reimburse the customer for unauthorized transactions. Neither will be responsible for customer negligence. I have accounts with both companies, and don't know about any "insurance" offered by Fidelity. Please tell me what I am missing???

[Greg Nelson]

My wife is with Vanguard, I'm with Fidelity. I did buy VCR and VGHCX and neither is doing well

[xNYer]

I have used both Vanguard and Fidelity and enjoy the convenience of having a local Fidelity office for a variety of reasons.

FUSEX the Fidelity fund index fund has an exp ratio of .09
VFINX the Vanguard equivalent has an expense ratio of .16

Fidelity offers many more managed funds and options, but if you only compare the passively managed accounts the fees are very similar.

[paperclip202]

Yes, but if you have $10k, you can buy VFIAX for .05 (Admiral shares are always cheaper than investor shares).

I get it. If you like to be able to walk into a local office, that is fine. Just remember that Fidelity is owned by the Johnson's who are billionaires (worth about $22B) and Vanguard is owned by its investors. Hidden Johnson billionaires found in Fidelity fund empire (http://www.investmentnews.com/article/20120920/FREE/120929999/hidden-johnson-billionaires-found-in-fidelity-fund-empire)

Just look at the fund flows from Morningstar.

Active funds 1 year flows
Vanguard +$30.3 billion
Fidelity -$40 billion decline

Passive funds 1 year flows
Vanguard +$223.1 billion
Fidelity +$25.4 billion

http://corporate.morningstar.com/US/documents/AssetFlows/AssetFlowsSep2016.pdf

Somebody mentioned Paul Merriman and he is great.

The Ultimate Buy and Hold Strategy 2016 - Paul Merriman | Paul Merriman (http://paulmerriman.com/ultimate-buy-hold-strategy-2016/) - how to add value, small cap, reits, EM

Vanguard | Paul Merriman (http://paulmerriman.com/vanguard/) -- Vanguard sample allocations

Fidelity vs. Vanguard: Which is best? by Paul Merriman (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/fidelity-vs-vanguard-which-is-best-2013-05-07)

Many investors think the choice between having their money at Fidelity Investments or at Vanguard is a tossup. It's not.

Even though Fidelity is a great company with many successful funds, in my estimation, Vanguard is clearly better for investors who are building a portfolio of basic asset class funds.

There's nothing wrong with Fidelity, and for many years I have been helping investors with Fidelity-sponsored 401(k) plans choose the best available funds. Many investors are wedded to Fidelity, T. Rowe Price or other fund families through their 401(k) or similar retirement plans. These people deserve guidance on the best ways to use their plan options.

But if you have a choice, you should look "under the hood" for some details about Fidelity and Vanguard. Every time I do that, I find that Vanguard comes out on top. If your goal is to make your retirement money do the most that it can for you and your family without taking any more risk than you need to, then you should look under the hood too.

Let's start by noting a fundamental difference between these two companies. Vanguard is actually owned by the shareholders of its mutual funds. If the company is profitable (and it is), those profits go to the people who own Vanguard funds, not to outside investors.

This is an unusual business model, similar in some ways to that of credit unions and other cooperatives that ultimately operate for the benefit of their customer-members. Fidelity, on the other hand, is owned by the company's employees and by a series of family trusts.

This brings us to the topic of fees and expenses paid by investors. Vanguard has no incentive to charge any more than necessary to keep the company healthy. But the owners of Fidelity do better when the company charges more to investors. So Fidelity's incentive is to charge what the traffic will bear.

And as most investors know, higher charges mean lower returns. Two funds can have identical portfolios, but if one of them levies higher charges, its investors will have lower returns. There's just no way to get around that equation.

Following this obvious logic further, two investors can save the same amounts of money at the same times — and even retire on the same date. But if one of them achieves lower returns, he or she will have less money to support a retirement income and less money for potential bequests to family members and charities.

Now we are ready to talk about returns. So let's look at the facts. The Hulbert Financial Digest for many years has calculated the results of my portfolio recommendations.

For the 10 years ended Dec. 31, 2012, my moderate (60% equity) portfolio at Fidelity returned 7.8%; in that same period my moderate Vanguard portfolio returned 9.1%. The difference might not seem very important. But it is.

On a one-time investment of $10,000, the Fidelity portfolio (with all earnings reinvested) produced $21,193 versus $23,892 at Vanguard. That difference, $2,789, represents nearly 28% of the entire initial investment.

And that is only for 10 years. If you continued the calculation out for 10 more years, the difference would be worth more than 120% of the entire initial investment.

In other words, little things can mean a lot.

My all-equity recommendations over the same period, according to Hulbert Financial Digest, produced returns of 8.7% at Fidelity and 10.3% at Vanguard.

These numbers tell you more than you might think. An all-equity portfolio is always much riskier than one with 40% in bonds. Yet Fidelity investors who took all that extra risk did not even match the returns of the much less volatile Vanguard moderate portfolio.

These portfolios were (and are) based on my belief in wide diversification in equity asset classes that have historically produced the most return per unit of risk. That means international stocks as well as U.S. stocks, small-cap stocks as well as large-cap stocks, value stocks as well as growth stocks. It also means real-estate stocks and emerging markets stocks.

Whenever possible I recommend low-cost index funds for each of these asset classes.

When Fidelity does not have an index fund in an important asset class, I choose the best fund available.

Why did (and does) Vanguard do so much better? The answers are pretty simple. Vanguard has lower expenses, lower turnover and more index funds. That means higher returns.

Fidelity rightly brags about its huge pool of talented analysts and fund managers, and there's no doubt they work very hard. But savvy investors want results. And they will find more of what they want, in my opinion, at Vanguard than at Fidelity.

The lesson here isn’t really about whether to use Vanguard or Fidelity. The important lesson is never forget the potential damage high expenses, turnover and active management missteps can cost you in the long run.

For the record, I have no financial relationship with either Fidelity or Vanguard (or any other fund company for that matter). I'm interested only in what should motivate serious investors: Results.

Further reading: Check out the relevant discussion in my book "101 Investment Decisions Guaranteed to Change Your Financial Future," available for free downloads.

[xNYer]

FUSVX is the equivalent of the Vanguard fund.
You stated that Vanguard expense ratio is .05.
FUSVX ! The equivalent fund, has an expense ratio of .045.

I fail to see how Vanguard has an advantage in expense ratios, it is curious how insistent you are.

[tcxr750]

I would be very interested in leaning more about the "Vanguard four" including percentages and the "two other" funds. Please share your success with us. Jimmie

The following funds with percentages came up on the Vanguard website in 2015. I haven't seen anything similar in 2016. It was based on risk tolerance, etc.
The funds were VBMFX, VGTSX,VTIBX VTSMX. Search the Vanguard website to determine percentages for your risk tolerance, goals, etc.
One model portfolio consisted only of VPGDX.
Another portfolio created by one of Raymond James top advisors in NEOhio, consisted of more than 28 funds and has outperformed the other models by 1.5% this year. Last year not so good. See your local Raymond James advisor.
The important issue to me was that a professionally managed portfolio of 28 funds matched the Vanguard portfolio of 4 funds. The big difference, no 1% management fee and no free coffee.:)

[retiredguy123]

One thing you need to realize is that when stock brokers promote their own funds, they cherry pick the winners. For example, they may set up and operate 20 in house funds for a year or so, and then promote the 2 best performing funds by showing clients how great those 2 funds did, but they don't mention the 18 losers. If you operate enough funds, some of them will have good returns.

[petsetc]

Vanguard's 4 fund portfolio is Total US Stocks, Total US Bonds, Total International Stocks and Total International Bond is a no-brainer way to cover all the bases. The Trick is in allocation and rebalancing. Personally, I think the portfolios by Paul Merriman Vanguard suggestion which are more slice-and-dice are more efficient based on you risk tolerance. I fund the the weight allocated to bond funds to be too great, and also, the international bond funds to be undesirable.

Finally, since, in recent years, bond funds have trended with, not oppose, stocks, that my bond fund strategy is to use short and mid-term US govt bond funds.

JMO

[TomSpasm]

I use Charles Schwab and I don't see how they can be beat. I have 3 IRAs, a brokerage account and a checking account. There are no fees on any accounts, and they refund all ATM fees every month. In other words, there is no cost to me unless I buy or sell a security. They have numerous no-fee ETFs and Mutual Funds with fees of less than .1 percent. Their smart-phone app, which I rarely use, seems to allow me to do whatever I would need to do. I can buy either Vanguard or Fidelity Funds or ETFs, and I have several Vanguard ETFs in the Schwab accounts.

Better yet, if I have a question, I have never failed to get a live, American English speaking rep on the phone in less than 60 seconds, and if they don't know the answer to my question, they transfer me quickly to someone who does. I don't know how you can get any better than that!

[Dannny]

Thanks for your insight and experiences.

I've been a Fidelity investor for many years and most recently have been very unsatisfied with their services. I am considering using a professionally managed financial planner which I have not used in the past. So if Vanguard provide this service at no charged that in deed is huge.

Can you give me a name and contact info a Vanguard?

Thanks...

[Mparker1966]

I have accounts at both Vanguard and Fidelity as well as USAA. Several years ago USAA transferred its back office function to the Fidelity back office.

While there is a slight difference in expenses for funds, thanks to Vanguard, fund expenses at Fido are low and competitive, Espically if you are not looking at actively managed funds.

The main difference I see is that when you deal with Fido you need to be on guard for sales pitches. If you can guard yourself from being sold an actively managed fund with a higher expense ratio, both are good.

Fidelity has better research and when I have had service type issues Fido is also better.

[retiredguy123]

Vanguard is the best. Financial investing is not complicated, contrary to what financial advisors want you to think. For most investors, put your money into no-load indexed mutual funds (30 percent in the S&P 500 or total stock market, 40 percent in short and intermediate term bonds, and 30 percent in cash). Over time, you will make a lot of money, and won't need to pay for any "research" or commissions. Just my 2 cents worth.

[Boomer]

..........

[retiredguy123]

I'll give it a try.

[autumnspring]

I do business with both Fidelity and Vanguard (and T.Rowe Price) for different types of Investments.
The Fidelity Office in The Villages is one of the best Brokerage Offices available any where and we are
so lucky to have them at Sumter Landing. Take for instance Estate Planning with Fidelity or Price
is not available on a one on one meeting.. You cannot meet with Vanguard on a moments notice in
person unlike Fidelity. Again different investments.. I am not aware of the office within
Florida for Vanguard.

I too have accounts with all three of them. For me, FIDELITY is the best of the three. If, you have a question
you can call FIDELITY 24 hours a day 7 days a week. Should you call Vanguard or T. Rowe you will get a recording that is monday to fri 9-5.

RECENT EXPERIENCE WITH VANGUARD-I have a small INHERITED IRA that thanks to the government I am forced to take money out every year. I wanted to put half of what I estimate I will be forced to withdraw for 2017 and put it into a CASH MONEY MARKET. I WAS TOLD YOU NEED TO HAVE 3,000 TO OPEN UP ANY NEW ACCOUNT POSITION. TRUTH BE TOLD, I HAD A MONEY MARKET FUND IN THIS INHERITED IRA. I HAD ASKED THE PERSON AT VANGUARD IF I SHOULD LEAVE A SMALL BALANCE IN THE ACCT JUST TO KEEP IT OPENED AND I WAS TOLD THERE IS NO REASON,

Re: That article about conflict of interest at FIDELITY
It was interesting and I had seen it before your posting it.
HAVE YOU EVER GOTTEN THE IPO PRICE AT T.ROWE OR VANGUARD? IF, IT GOES DOWN FROM THE IPO PRICE YOU WILL OF COURSE GET IT. THE IPO PRICE GOES TO THE INSIDERS. IS THAT FAIR? LIFE IS NOT FAIR. ASIDE-WE KEEP HEARING AND READING BUFFET LIKE. FYI BUFFET AND PEOPLE WITH HIS MONEY DO NOT EVEN SWIM IN THE SAME MARKET WITH WE THE UNWASHED MASSES.

The good news is intense competition and easy access to information on the internet has made investing far less expensive for the investors.

[autumnspring]

After 15 years of paying advisors their one percent annual fee I've decided it's time to move my IRA to Vanguard. A year ago I created several model portfolios. One based on my current professionally managed IRA. This portfolio consists of 28 different funds and etfs.
Another based on a portfolio designed on the Vanguard website consisting of four funds. Plus two others. Bottom line the four fund Vanguard folio matches in performance the professionally managed fund , without the one percent fee.
That one percent fee is significant. If you take out four percent a year, the one percent fee equals 20% of the $$$ coming out of your account. Of course with Vanguard you don't get the free cup of coffee that is offered when you meet with your advisor.

You have stated your PROFESSIONALLY MANAGED IRA contains 28 different funds and ETFs. If, what you are saying is that YOU can choose from 28 funds and ETFs that might make sense BUT, then YOU are the manager by making the choices from that menu. If, you are saying your IRA is in a fund of funds with 28 DIFFERENT funds and ETFs you are paying not only the management fees for all those funds but if you look either you or your former company are paying a firm to manage this. Also, you have a holding in the entire market and could hold the same in ETF form at far less cost. MAKING THINGS COMPLEX IS HOW THE PROF JUSTIFIES HIS COST.

Your view seems to be based on a book titled, THE SMARTEST INVESTMENT BOOK YOU'LL EVER READ," by Daniel Solin. In 2007 when the market tanked. bonds tanked and stocks tanked GOLD did well and CASH at least did not go down. HINDSIGHT IS ALWAYS 20/20. We a living in a time where our government is MANIPULATING WEALTH. They even tell you they WANT 2% INFLATION.
Even the inflation rate is MANIPULATED. REAGAN controlled inflation because he took the two items rising the fastest at the time out of the calculation- fuel and housing. QUANTITATIVE EASING-folks that is buying your own debt with PRINTED MONEY. The stock market is up because OUR GOVERNMENT does not give you any other place to put your SAVINGS and get a HISTORICALLY NORMAL RETURN. That 2% inflation target-why does the government need this? Inflation makes it possible for the debtor to pay back with less valuable money. OUR GOVERNMENT OWES TWENTY TRILLION BUCKS. At 2% inflation your SAVINGS will need to double in 36 years to buy the same merchandise and services.

[autumnspring]

Good advice. I have used Vanguard for many years and they do an excellent job. The Wellington and Wellesley funds are two of the best in the industry and there index funds are some of the lowest expense ratios available. However I also use Fidelity and Schwab on a somewhat limited basis for speciality products. It's hard to beat the Schwab investor checking account with a debit card. No fees anywhere in the world and VERY competitive exchange rates for other currency. If you travel out of the US anywhere that one card is the least expensive way to handle foreign exchange and ATM's

re: Wellington and Wellesley
They are both available as ADMIRALTY SHARES. If, you have minimum of 50.000 int the fund you can get ADMIRALTY SHARES same fund but the management fee drops by about 1/3. RE: ADMIRALTY SHARES. BASED ON MY EXPERIENCE, VANGUARD DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY SHIFT YOU TO THE LOWER MANAGEMENT GROUP AND THEY CERTAINLY DO NOT ADVISE YOU THAT IF YOU WERE TO PUT ANOTHER .......... INTO YOUR HOLDING YOU WILL THEN BE ELIGIBLE FOR THE LOWER FEES.

Wellington is roughly 60% stocks and 40% bonds. Wellesley is roughly 40% stocks and 60% bonds so if you are looking for say a 50/50 mix the math is fairly simple as to how much of each you need to hold.

[Stdole]

Depends on the product of interest to the investor... If bonds are your interested investment... they are the largest in the country in regards to selections, time periods etc. even better than Schaub Investments.. If you find a Vanguard Office within 1000 miles of The Villages let of all know about it... I am a fan of both Vanguard and Fidelity... each has its own good points and bad... Thanks to both for being available to us... O you can buy mostly all funds, stocks etc at Fidelity and have one statement at the very same charges even if they are Vanguard funds.. Now that is a good point you have to admit... really at tax time for the accountant. Now don't think for one minute that Vanguard became one of the best and largest investment firms in the world by sending you all their profits back to you the investor.. and I figured this point out over a free cup of coffee at the Fidelity Office... Did I mention many also have invites to
4 & 5 star Hotels for dinners and speakers with no fees etc.. just a nice evening that just might cost $$$$ and free... still awaiting invites from Vanguard... Now as I mentioned I also
like Vanguard... room for all... otherwise the Lobby at Fidelity would be full.

[autumnspring]

I still cannot find any difference between Vanguard and Fidelity regarding lost or stolen money. Both companies will reimburse the customer for unauthorized transactions. Neither will be responsible for customer negligence. I have accounts with both companies, and don't know about any "insurance" offered by Fidelity. Please tell me what I am missing???

RE: Lost or Stolen money
I don't believe you have any INSURANCE what you have is these large companies wishing to protect their hard earned goodwill.
Not sure what and when it changed but years ago before you placed an order for a fund or........, you would be sent a copy of the prospectus, you would SIGN an application and it would outline the companies responsibility and that you have read and understand same.

If, I recall, FROM MANY YEARS AGO, you have agreed to arbitration. The trouble is the arbitrator is paid by the company so is not working for you.

CONGRATULATIONS YOU ARE ONE OF VERY FEW THAT WONDER ABOUT YOUR RIGHTS.

I do not know the whole story but someone we know INVESTED? with MADDOFF. When, that scam went bust this person got back most if not all of the money he had put in. I BELIEVE part of the money came from a fund that the brokers are forced to contribute to.

[autumnspring]

Yes, but if you have $10k, you can buy VFIAX for .05 (Admiral shares are always cheaper than investor shares).

I get it. If you like to be able to walk into a local office, that is fine. Just remember that Fidelity is owned by the Johnson's who are billionaires (worth about $22B) and Vanguard is owned by its investors. Hidden Johnson billionaires found in Fidelity fund empire (http://www.investmentnews.com/article/20120920/FREE/120929999/hidden-johnson-billionaires-found-in-fidelity-fund-empire)

Just look at the fund flows from Morningstar.

Active funds 1 year flows
Vanguard +$30.3 billion
Fidelity -$40 billion decline

Passive funds 1 year flows
Vanguard +$223.1 billion
Fidelity +$25.4 billion

http://corporate.morningstar.com/US/documents/AssetFlows/AssetFlowsSep2016.pdf

Somebody mentioned Paul Merriman and he is great.

The Ultimate Buy and Hold Strategy 2016 - Paul Merriman | Paul Merriman (http://paulmerriman.com/ultimate-buy-hold-strategy-2016/) - how to add value, small cap, reits, EM

Vanguard | Paul Merriman (http://paulmerriman.com/vanguard/) -- Vanguard sample allocations

Fidelity vs. Vanguard: Which is best? by Paul Merriman (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/fidelity-vs-vanguard-which-is-best-2013-05-07)

Many investors think the choice between having their money at Fidelity Investments or at Vanguard is a tossup. It's not.

Even though Fidelity is a great company with many successful funds, in my estimation, Vanguard is clearly better for investors who are building a portfolio of basic asset class funds.

There's nothing wrong with Fidelity, and for many years I have been helping investors with Fidelity-sponsored 401(k) plans choose the best available funds. Many investors are wedded to Fidelity, T. Rowe Price or other fund families through their 401(k) or similar retirement plans. These people deserve guidance on the best ways to use their plan options.

But if you have a choice, you should look "under the hood" for some details about Fidelity and Vanguard. Every time I do that, I find that Vanguard comes out on top. If your goal is to make your retirement money do the most that it can for you and your family without taking any more risk than you need to, then you should look under the hood too.

Let's start by noting a fundamental difference between these two companies. Vanguard is actually owned by the shareholders of its mutual funds. If the company is profitable (and it is), those profits go to the people who own Vanguard funds, not to outside investors.

This is an unusual business model, similar in some ways to that of credit unions and other cooperatives that ultimately operate for the benefit of their customer-members. Fidelity, on the other hand, is owned by the company's employees and by a series of family trusts.

This brings us to the topic of fees and expenses paid by investors. Vanguard has no incentive to charge any more than necessary to keep the company healthy. But the owners of Fidelity do better when the company charges more to investors. So Fidelity's incentive is to charge what the traffic will bear.

And as most investors know, higher charges mean lower returns. Two funds can have identical portfolios, but if one of them levies higher charges, its investors will have lower returns. There's just no way to get around that equation.

Following this obvious logic further, two investors can save the same amounts of money at the same times — and even retire on the same date. But if one of them achieves lower returns, he or she will have less money to support a retirement income and less money for potential bequests to family members and charities.

Now we are ready to talk about returns. So let's look at the facts. The Hulbert Financial Digest for many years has calculated the results of my portfolio recommendations.

For the 10 years ended Dec. 31, 2012, my moderate (60% equity) portfolio at Fidelity returned 7.8%; in that same period my moderate Vanguard portfolio returned 9.1%. The difference might not seem very important. But it is.

On a one-time investment of $10,000, the Fidelity portfolio (with all earnings reinvested) produced $21,193 versus $23,892 at Vanguard. That difference, $2,789, represents nearly 28% of the entire initial investment.

And that is only for 10 years. If you continued the calculation out for 10 more years, the difference would be worth more than 120% of the entire initial investment.

In other words, little things can mean a lot.

My all-equity recommendations over the same period, according to Hulbert Financial Digest, produced returns of 8.7% at Fidelity and 10.3% at Vanguard.

These numbers tell you more than you might think. An all-equity portfolio is always much riskier than one with 40% in bonds. Yet Fidelity investors who took all that extra risk did not even match the returns of the much less volatile Vanguard moderate portfolio.

These portfolios were (and are) based on my belief in wide diversification in equity asset classes that have historically produced the most return per unit of risk. That means international stocks as well as U.S. stocks, small-cap stocks as well as large-cap stocks, value stocks as well as growth stocks. It also means real-estate stocks and emerging markets stocks.

Whenever possible I recommend low-cost index funds for each of these asset classes.

When Fidelity does not have an index fund in an important asset class, I choose the best fund available.

Why did (and does) Vanguard do so much better? The answers are pretty simple. Vanguard has lower expenses, lower turnover and more index funds. That means higher returns.

Fidelity rightly brags about its huge pool of talented analysts and fund managers, and there's no doubt they work very hard. But savvy investors want results. And they will find more of what they want, in my opinion, at Vanguard than at Fidelity.

The lesson here isn’t really about whether to use Vanguard or Fidelity. The important lesson is never forget the potential damage high expenses, turnover and active management missteps can cost you in the long run.

For the record, I have no financial relationship with either Fidelity or Vanguard (or any other fund company for that matter). I'm interested only in what should motivate serious investors: Results.

Further reading: Check out the relevant discussion in my book "101 Investment Decisions Guaranteed to Change Your Financial Future," available for free downloads.

I am always learning something. I knew about Admiralty shares on WELLINGTON AND WELLSEY to get them you need to have 50,000 in each. VANGUARD DOES NOT ALLOW YOU TO VIEW ALL YOUR HOLDINGS AS ONE.
So where as I have admiralty shares for wellington in my IRA they will not consider that on my inherited IRA which has no where near the 50,000.

I was surprised to learn and confirm that you only need 10,000 in VFIAX for ADMIRALTY SHARES. I will investigate further and decide what I want to do

[autumnspring]

The following funds with percentages came up on the Vanguard website in 2015. I haven't seen anything similar in 2016. It was based on risk tolerance, etc.
The funds were VBMFX, VGTSX,VTIBX VTSMX. Search the Vanguard website to determine percentages for your risk tolerance, goals, etc.
One model portfolio consisted only of VPGDX.
Another portfolio created by one of Raymond James top advisors in NEOhio, consisted of more than 28 funds and has outperformed the other models by 1.5% this year. Last year not so good. See your local Raymond James advisor.
The important issue to me was that a professionally managed portfolio of 28 funds matched the Vanguard portfolio of 4 funds. The big difference, no 1% management fee and no free coffee.:)

Your statement which is obviously meant to be tong in cheek is at least in part prejudicial. First of all Fidelity has many funds with less than a 1% management fee. With Fidelity if you need OR WANT information after 5:00 or saturday or sunday you will find a qualified person to talk to at FIDELITY. As stated previously, I have accounts at FIDELITY, T. Rowe and Vanguard. VANGUARD IS THE WORST OF THE THREE. Someone said they do not think there is a vanguard office in the villages. I'VE NEVER SEEN A VANGUARD OFFICE ANYWHERE SO I EXPECT THEY DO NOT HAVE ANY. Where we used to live there was a T. Rowe office a short drive from where we lived BUT THEY WERE IN THE PROCESS OF CLOSING IT-NOT CAUSE AND EFFECT I'M SURE. We had a complex transaction. We hopped into our golf cart and the people behind the desk supplied the correct forms and filled them out for us. They made a slight error and my Fidelity manager got it corrected for me. If, there was any loss FIDELITY ATE IT NOT ME. OH AND THE COFFEE IS GOOD.

I perhaps read too much and remember too many things I have read but not where I read them.

There are actually more different stock funds than there are different stocks. Obviously, out of the 28 funds you mentioned there is a tremendous overlap of them holding the same stocks. Apple is currently the largest stock company in the US-perhaps, in the world-I'm not certain about the second point. Surely APPL is in many of the 28 funds you own. Also, for you to follow what the MANAGER is doing is actually DELIBERATELY IMPOSSIBLE. He probably does not report it except 1/4 ly by then he has already done it and if the stock has in fact gone up you are paying the higher price. Any of these stock gurus. If, they have enough followers-SUCH AS CRAMER, they can actually move stocks. I do not recall his name but the manager of the FIDELITY MAGELLAN fund was famous for beating the competition. He was fined or jailed for getting on TV and predicting some stock would go up while he was selling into the market he manipulated into going up.

IF, YOU THINK THIS GAME IS FAIR, YOU WILL QUICKLY DISCOVER YOU ARE ONLY THE BAIT FOR THE BIG FISH.
YOU HEAR BUFFET LIKE OUT OF THE MOUTHS OF FAR TOO MANY. BUFFET DOES NOT EVEN BUY IN THE SAME MARKET WITH YOU AND I.

I recall reading somewhere that to have a balanced, stock portfolio you would need FOUR ETFS-large cap, small cap, medium cap and foreign index