Did you Know? This is important!!!

[cheryl2court]

Did you know that the Architectural Committee's (ARC) cannot be challenged? This is so, even if a resident totally removes all grass and replaces it with Pine Straw (4 sides of his property) on his golf course lot without prior approval. As long as the resident uses "Florida- Friendly plants, this is so in District 5, the Villages of Poinciana.

When we purchased a home in the Villages we agreed to abide by certain covenants, as are still stated on the Villages website. On one condition is: Florida Statute 373.185:
"A deed restriction or covenant may not prohibit any property owner from implementing Florida-friendly landscaping on his or her land. Florida-friendly landscaping refers to the utilization of drought tolerant "plants". It does not mean that sod may be replaced with rock, decorative stone, pine straw, mulch or similar non-plant material; however, those non-plant materials may be used as an accent around the said plantings."

If this covenant has been amended, it is not mentioned on the website. Why not?

Yet, a resident can be threatened with a fine/day if a Patriotic flower is not removed from their front lawn; also a covenant- no lawn ornaments.

[Fraugoofy]

Did you know that the Architectural Committee's (ARC) cannot be challenged? This is so, even if a resident totally removes all grass and replaces it with Pine Straw (4 sides of his property) on his golf course lot without prior approval. As long as the resident uses "Florida- Friendly plants, this is so in District 5, the Villages of Poinciana.

When we purchased a home in the Villages we agreed to abide by certain covenants, as are still stated on the Villages website. On one condition is: Florida Statute 373.185:
"A deed restriction or covenant may not prohibit any property owner from implementing Florida-friendly landscaping on his or her land. Florida-friendly landscaping refers to the utilization of drought tolerant "plants". It does not mean that sod may be replaced with rock, decorative stone, pine straw, mulch or similar non-plant material; however, those non-plant materials may be used as an accent around the said plantings."

If this covenant has been amended, it is not mentioned on the website. Why not?

Yet, a resident can be threatened with a fine/day if a Patriotic flower is not removed from their front lawn; also a covenant- no lawn ornaments.
I would not want to live next to someone with pine straw on all four sides of his house. Peace out...

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[graciegirl]

I would not want to live next to someone with pine straw on all four sides of his house. Peace out...

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Me either. It is so pretty here. Wonder what the rest of the story is.

[CFrance]

My take on that rule is you can't just have pine straw or stones, etc. But you could take all the grass out and replace with drought tolerant landscaping, around which could be mulch of some sort. So you may "drought tolerant plant" your heart out, but you can't just rip out all the sod and replace it with mulch.

[cheryl2court]

As I posted before- replacing Sod with Pine straw is not what we want the Villages to look like. Someone commented "What is the rest of the story" take a look at the picture I attached.!!!

[village dreamer]

did ron hess say it looks fine ???

[KittyKat]

I thought the rule was that you could only remove a certain percentage of your lawn. I can't believe the ARC allowed this. It's a fire hazard and snakes love pine straw. Removing it was one of the first things we did. UGLY!

[photo1902]

I thought the rule was that you could only remove a certain percentage of your lawn. I can't believe the ARC allowed this. It's a fire hazard and snakes love pine straw. Removing it was one of the first things we did. UGLY!

Not to burst your bubble, but snakes like stone as well. Especially later in the year when the stone retains its heat. We have a little black snake that loves laying in our stone. As far as a fire hazard...seriously? Must explain the rash of lawn fires here. :)

[outlaw]

You might as well face the future. Eventually, grass will be considered bad for the environment (high water usage and pesticide/herbicide runoff) by mainstream, and everyone will be encouraged or required to use different ground cover. Already, there is a movement in TV to go xeriscape.

[bagboy]

Not to burst your bubble, but snakes like stone as well. Especially later in the year when the stone retains its heat. We have a little black snake that loves laying in our stone. As far as a fire hazard...seriously? Must explain the rash of lawn fires here. :)

The Windsor Green and Barefoot Resorts fires in Myrtle Beach were a result of a previously started fire coming into contact with pine straw used for landscaping. Raleigh NC and several NC cities and towns either restrict or ban the use of pine straw. It seems far fetched until there is a fire.

[CFrance]

I thought the rule was that you could only remove a certain percentage of your lawn. I can't believe the ARC allowed this. It's a fire hazard and snakes love pine straw. Removing it was one of the first things we did. UGLY!
You have permission to xeriscape from the state of Florida. This supersedes any directive of the ARC as to how much grass you must have, it has been proven.

[outlaw]

You have permission to xeriscape from the state of Florida. This supersedes any directive of the ARC as to how much grass you must have, it has been proven.

If you dig into the statute, it does not say you can do whatever you want regarding xeriscape/Florida friendly designs. You still have to have a design that the HOA thinks fits in with the rest of the neighborhood. In TV, you must get any redesign approved by the ARC or may be liable for a fine and/or additional redesign costs. The ARC has approved several complete xeriscape designs. Normally, these designs have a lot of pine straw initially. But, as the plants grow and fill in, less and less pine straw is required. There are a couple of mature designs in TV that are really attractive with a variety of plants.

[Retiring]

Does anyone truly believe pine straw is attractive? I don’t have a creative bone in my body. Maybe pine straw is one of those things only creative people understand.

[Villageswimmer]

Not to burst your bubble, but snakes like stone as well. Especially later in the year when the stone retains its heat. We have a little black snake that loves laying in our stone. As far as a fire hazard...seriously? Must explain the rash of lawn fires here. :)


Unless they are venomous, and most are not, snakes are very beneficial and keep rodents and other critters in check. And snakes are everywhere no matter what the mulch material. This is Florida. :coolsmiley:

[jnieman]

The Windsor Green and Barefoot Resorts fires in Myrtle Beach were a result of a previously started fire coming into contact with pine straw used for landscaping. Raleigh NC and several NC cities and towns either restrict or ban the use of pine straw. It seems far fetched until there is a fire.

Yes a pine straw fire burns really quick. When we first moved in someone threw out a cigarette and the entire front lawn down the street was on fire.

[Mrs. Robinson]

As I posted before- replacing Sod with Pine straw is not what we want the Villages to look like. Someone commented "What is the rest of the story" take a look at the picture I attached.!!!

This is landscaping?

I wouldn't know whether to laugh or cry!
:a040: --- --- :cryin2:

[Ozzello]

TV used cypress mulch for many years, and St. Aug. grass. The change to pinestraw and zoysia save the builder about 3 hundred bucks per house. Both changes are inferior products and not better for those purchasing homes here.

[Polar Bear]

TV used cypress mulch for many years, and St. Aug. grass. The change to pinestraw and zoysia save the builder about 3 hundred bucks per house. Both changes are inferior products and not better for those purchasing homes here.
The superiority of St. Augustine to zoysia is very subjective to be stated so matter-of-factly.

[graciegirl]

You might as well face the future. Eventually, grass will be considered bad for the environment (high water usage and pesticide/herbicide runoff) by mainstream, and everyone will be encouraged or required to use different ground cover. Already, there is a movement in TV to go xeriscape.

There may be a movement but it probably has the same percentage of proponents as the minority party here in TV.

[Barefoot]

You have permission to xeriscape from the state of Florida. This supersedes any directive of the ARC as to how much grass you must have, it has been proven.I'm in favor of xeriscape landscaping; but I think changes still have to be approved by the ARC.

[dirtbanker]

It is the same here as the rest of the country, depending on who you are...

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[Mrs. Robinson]

TV used cypress mulch for many years, and St. Aug. grass. The change to pinestraw and zoysia save the builder about 3 hundred bucks per house. Both changes are inferior products and not better for those purchasing homes here.

The superiority of St. Augustine to zoysia is very subjective to be stated so matter-of-factly.

It may be subjective, Polar Bear, but one can't deny that any type of St. Augustine looks 100% better than the Zoysia in the newer areas. So tell me . . . . . what's wrong with green grass all year long as opposed to brown in the winter and brown blotches here and there all summer long?

In addition, you really aren't saving water. There isn't much difference in the amount of water each type requires. The real secret is not to scalp your lawn and let it grow to a height of 4 inches or so. Those who have Zoysia should think about planting St. Augustine plugs!

[photo1902]

It may be subjective, Polar Bear, but one can't deny that any type of St. Augustine looks 100% better than the Zoysia in the newer areas. So tell me . . . . . what's wrong with green grass all year long as opposed to brown in the winter and brown blotches here and there all summer long?

In addition, you really aren't saving water. There isn't much difference in the amount of water each type requires. The real secret is not to scalp your lawn and let it grow to a height of 4 inches or so. Those who have Zoysia should think about planting St. Augustine plugs!

Im with you. We live in Lake Deaton, so therefore have Zoysia. Paying our monthly water bill (the irrigation portion) each month, I sure as heck don't see any savings. In-laws and friends who live near the polo grounds, and have St. Augustine, water less than we do, and enjoy beautiful green grass year round. In my opinion there is no water savings with Zoysia.

[Polar Bear]

It may be subjective, Polar Bear, but one can't deny that any type of St. Augustine looks 100% better than the Zoysia in the newer areas. So tell me . . . . . what's wrong with green grass all year long as opposed to brown in the winter and brown blotches here and there all summer long?
Obviously you've had better experience with St. Augustine. I respect that. And I've been very happy with St. Augustine in the past. I like it.

But my Zoysia looks better year around than you describe and I like it just fine. It's only your statements such as "one can't deny that any type of St. Augustine looks 100% better than the Zoysia..." that I take issue with. I for one certainly can deny that. (I don't know why the newer areas would be a problem unless newly installed lawns simply aren't getting proper maintenance.)

There are many, many beautiful Zoysia lawns in TV year 'round.

[justjim]

Does anyone truly believe pine straw is attractive? I don’t have a creative bone in my body. Maybe pine straw is one of those things only creative people understand.

As you drive down the various streets and roads you will obviously notice Pine Straw everywhere. The Developer overall did a great job of landscaping the green area of TV.

However, the first thing we did with our landscape was take out the Pine Straw and replace it with a combination of rock and bark. Of course, we had to have a couple of Palms to make it look "Florida". I am beginning to see a number of yards replacing about half or more of their yards with various plants with bark and rock. "Attractive" or "creative" is in the eyes of the beholder.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

This is important? Why? Just stay within the covenants and restrictions. What some people see as important is incredible to me.

[dog friendly]

Yes a pine straw fire burns really quick. When we first moved in someone threw out a cigarette and the entire front lawn down the street was on fire.

That is the reason The Villages uses pine straw all over the landscape in the villages, it is a fire hazard, it attracts snakes, rodents, and bugs. I find pine straw very Florida friendly and beautiful, it is a natural look. No rocks or stone for me.

[Polar Bear]

This is important? Why?...What some people see as important is incredible to me.
Agree. :)

[Barefoot]

This is important? Why? Just stay within the covenants and restrictions. What some people see as important is incredible to me.

I think perhaps it's the Title of the thread that bothers you rather than the subject of the thread. If the title had been "Landscaping your Villages Home", probably many of us wouldn't have read it.

Possibly the landscaping deed restrictions have become less restrictive and more Florida-Friendly as The Villages expands south? :confused:

[Stdole]

I was told by The Villages Management Office at Sumter Landing doing The Academy Class... "The Villages do not go out looking for violations, if
if a resident (s) reports the possible violation to them , they will look into the issue and take action if required" You do not have to give your name,
address or any ID on your part.. Lets put this statement to test!! And then report back on this web site your experience

[Polar Bear]

I think perhaps it's the Title of the thread that bothers you rather than the subject of the thread...

Guilty as charged. :)

[autumnspring]

TV used cypress mulch for many years, and St. Aug. grass. The change to pinestraw and zoysia save the builder about 3 hundred bucks per house. Both changes are inferior products and not better for those purchasing homes here.

I don't think you are correct on either of your points.

Cypress mulch is discouraged because it resulted in the destruction of cypress trees as to cost, it is actually less costly than pine needles.

As to zoysia vs St Augustine. Each has pluses and minuses cost is about the same per sq. foot.. The zoysia is a much finer bladed grass than is the St Augustine.

RE: saving $300 per house.
I tried to pay to have them add organic matter to the lime sand/clay we are attempting to grow our plants and lawns in-they refuse to do it.

[N44125]

Drove by this home today...tacky.

[Rgstarnes]

Doesn't dry grass burn just as easily as pine straw, or maybe even quicker given it doesn't hold moisture. I am in favor of Florida native plants versus $150/month water charges to keep the lawn green. I have reduced my grass by 50% with plants and pine mulch, in an effort to reduce our annual lawn cost for fertilizer, pest control, and mowing, which were over $2000 a year.
A balance between the two is needed, as well as a balance of ones opinions over another's. Both parties could have valid opinions, and in the free world are allowed to have equal say.

[quexton]

If pine straw is so ugly why does The Villages use it in all their landscaping?

[RickeyD]

If pine straw is so ugly why does The Villages use it in all their landscaping?



It's cheaper than any other ground cover and easy to apply. I don't think it's ugly.

[biker1]

How many square feet of grass did you have? $150/month for irrigation is an enormous amount of water - probably close to 40k gallons.

Doesn't dry grass burn just as easily as pine straw, or maybe even quicker given it doesn't hold moisture. I am in favor of Florida native plants versus $150/month water charges to keep the lawn green. I have reduced my grass by 50% with plants and pine mulch, in an effort to reduce our annual lawn cost for fertilizer, pest control, and mowing, which were over $2000 a year.
A balance between the two is needed, as well as a balance of ones opinions over another's. Both parties could have valid opinions, and in the free world are allowed to have equal say.

[Rgstarnes]

The lot size is over 10000 sq ft. That is the total water bill, which would include the house water.

[Ozzello]

I don't think you are correct on either of your points.

Cypress mulch is discouraged because it resulted in the destruction of cypress trees as to cost, it is actually less costly than pine needles.

As to zoysia vs St Augustine. Each has pluses and minuses cost is about the same per sq. foot.. The zoysia is a much finer bladed grass than is the St Augustine.

RE: saving $300 per house.
I tried to pay to have them add organic matter to the lime sand/clay we are attempting to grow our plants and lawns in-they refuse to do it.

Cypress- $20/CY covering about 150 Sq. Ft
Pine straw- $2.50/bale covering about 100Sq. Ft

Zoysia costs 'about the same' as St Aug. unless you multiply the difference per Sq. Ft. x 4000 SF per home x the homes being built. The difference is significant. The Villages is about making money, the changes were financial gains for TV.. NOT made to benefit buyers.

[graciegirl]

I hate it when the greenies try to change the beauty of this place.

[Ozzello]

We are part of what makes this place beautiful, and range from goofballs with a pick up truck and a slick sales pitch, to college educated horticulturists with engineering and utilities certifications from the State of FL. and 30 plus years of landscape design experience. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I almost think you are using 'greenie' as a derogatory term, but I myself have brought years of experience, education, and "Mama'd be proud" integrity to this group you call greenie. TYVM

[ColdNoMore]

We are part of what makes this place beautiful, and range from goofballs with a pick up truck and a slick sales pitch, to college educated horticulturists with engineering and utilities certifications from the State of FL. and 30 plus years of landscape design experience. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I almost think you are using 'greenie' as a derogatory term, but I myself have brought years of experience, education, and "Mama'd be proud" integrity to this group you call greenie. TYVM

:BigApplause:

Not to mention that water availability...is always an issue.

On the other hand, I heard that even the trees, grass and bushes...think the water tastes bad here. :1rotfl:

[asianthree]

We have rock at our house in the beds around the house installed by a professional, it's hard to keep plants and trees and grass in the summer without having $100 plus water bill. However house down the street has a all stone, pine straw and cactus backyard, really not a fan of the look. But I am sure water bill is much less.

[Ozzello]

Centipede grass, would need no irrigation barring extreme drought, and no fertilizer.

Would take a long time to offset the cost of removal of original lawn and installation with just these 2 bills.... but It only needs mowed about ONE a YEAR.

I know had they given me the choice I would have paid the 20% more for the sod to upgrade Zoysia to Centipede.

5000 to remove and replace w centipede, I spend 1200 a year watering, 1000 for pests and fertilizer, 1200 mowing.. so in the black in 2 years with Centipede.

[Bogie Shooter]

Mowing $1200.....wow.

[biker1]

Not exactly correct. I had a centipede lawn for 10 years and I mowed it weekly during the growing season. It is more accurate to say it requires less fertilizer than zoysia. I fertilized mine twice a year and it looked great. Centipede can get by with the ambient rainfall but that is also true of a well established zoysia lawn. I do prefer centipede over zoysia but the zoysia is starting to grow on me now that I have figured out how to care for it. I spend about $300/year on irrigation, about $100/year on fertilizer and pesticide, and about $10/year on mowing.

Centipede grass, would need no irrigation barring extreme drought, and no fertilizer.

Would take a long time to offset the cost of removal of original lawn and installation with just these 2 bills.... but It only needs mowed about ONE a YEAR.

I know had they given me the choice I would have paid the 20% more for the sod to upgrade Zoysia to Centipede.

5000 to remove and replace w centipede, I spend 1200 a year watering, 1000 for pests and fertilizer, 1200 mowing.. so in the black in 2 years with Centipede.

[Ozzello]

if you cut Centipede once a week, it wasn't because it needed cut

[biker1]

The grass clippings from the mower would indicate differently and during the growing season it most definitely needed weekly cutting.

if you cut Centipede once a week, it wasn't because it needed cut

[Hummintwo]

My guess is the property owner did not like getting our very expensive and necessary (water) bill. Taking out all the grass on the surface may seem like a good idea but consider the erosion that will follow. Enough erosion and now you have an even more expensive bill because the soil must have a way of holding together like a California mud slide.

[Ozzello]

My guess is the property owner did not like getting our very expensive and necessary (water) bill. Taking out all the grass on the surface may seem like a good idea but consider the erosion that will follow. Enough erosion and now you have an even more expensive bill because the soil must have a way of holding together like a California mud slide.

Agreed, though other groundcovers and plantings can be used to prevent erosion, or gravel. Most of the full blown sod removals with pine straw or mulch I have seen in TV, were poorly done and begging for a good rain to 'fix' it.

[Ozzello]

The grass clippings from the mower would indicate differently and during the growing season it most definitely needed weekly cutting.

I assumed you were growing Common or Oklawn Centipede, and minimal fertilization & water. Some of the varieties more common in the North or keeping the nitrogen and water available would require more mowing than the local Centipede lawns I have experience with.
There is a lawn in Fruitland Park that has been Centipede for over 30 years. He never fertilizes or waters and when he mows it once a year, it is around 3 inches tall...prior to mowing.

[biker1]

I don't recall the exact flavor of Centipede but it was not in the north - it was southern GA. 3 inches is well outside the recommended growing height of 1.5-2 inches. All of the centipede lawns where I lived needed cutting weekly.

I assumed you were growing Common or Oklawn Centipede, and minimal fertilization & water. Some of the varieties more common in the North or keeping the nitrogen and water available would require more mowing than the local Centipede lawns I have experience with.
There is a lawn in Fruitland Park that has been Centipede for over 30 years. He never fertilizes or waters and when he mows it once a year, it is around 3 inches tall...prior to mowing.

[Hummintwo]

Did you know that the Architectural Committee's (ARC) cannot be challenged? This is so, even if a resident totally removes all grass and replaces it with Pine Straw (4 sides of his property) on his golf course lot without prior approval. As long as the resident uses "Florida- Friendly plants, this is so in District 5, the Villages of Poinciana.

When we purchased a home in the Villages we agreed to abide by certain covenants, as are still stated on the Villages website. On one condition is: Florida Statute 373.185:
"A deed restriction or covenant may not prohibit any property owner from implementing Florida-friendly landscaping on his or her land. Florida-friendly landscaping refers to the utilization of drought tolerant "plants". It does not mean that sod may be replaced with rock, decorative stone, pine straw, mulch or similar non-plant material; however, those non-plant materials may be used as an accent around the said plantings."

If this covenant has been amended, it is not mentioned on the website. Why not?

Yet, a resident can be threatened with a fine/day if a Patriotic flower is not removed from their front lawn; also a covenant- no lawn ornaments.

The key wording regarding "It does not mean....etc. Two specifics are "it does not mean," example change lay of land (grade). The other word "accent" means just that not impacting the grade - lay of land necessary to not impact the neighboring properties in a negative way.

I am not reading or looking at our resident covenants to know for a fact that only a front yard grass requirement exists but State Statute referenced here does not limit protections to a front yard.

State statutes supercede any covenants we may have when express requirement that is less than state law. The same thing would apply regarding Federal Statutes. We read all the time about challenges but in the end it is to have consistency for all regardless of where we live or at least we like to think so.