Rumor: Developer has sold future building rights?

[GERALDINE]

Someone at the golf course told us that the Developer (Morse family) has sold all future building rights to an unidentified entity and are leaving this area to start a new "Villages" community in Texas.

Has anyone else heard this "rumor"?????

[dillywho]

Someone at the golf course told us that the Developer (Morse family) has sold all future building rights to an unidentified entity and are leaving this area to start a new "Villages" community in Texas.

Has anyone else heard this "rumor"?????

but I have heard this same rumor for at least the last 2 1/2 years. I'm from Texas and none of my friends have heard anything about "The Villages" being set up there, either. Guess time will tell, huh?

[Bogie Shooter]

That story is more than 5 years old.....has become an urban ledgend.

[villages07]

Someone asked this of Mark Morse...either in a state of the Villages address or VHA Q&A. Anyway, his answer was that he bought some land in Texas for hunting, i.e. for personal use and no they had no intent to duplicate the Villages concept in Texas.

[SteveFromNY]

I can easily imagine the developer duplicating the concept in another location, but I can't understand why he wouldn't continue what was started in FL. Doesn't make any sense whatsover. There would be an opportunity to make money in both locations.
But I defer to '07, who from my experience knows what she's talking about.

[Talk Host]

With the uncertainty of the real estate market and lending institutions, can you imagine any company spending 3876539877665 billion dollars to buy this community right now?

[Cassie325]

Funny....two days ago my daughter came home from the Charter School and told me that one of her friends was moving to Texas. When I asked her why....she said "her Dad has to go work there for Mr. Morse because they are building a new villages there" hhhmmmmm.......

[GMONEY]

I have also heard this deal. First heard it about 3 years ago. I have asked the main man myself. and got this reply. Not Happening!!! But things do change. I do know that they own alot of property in Tx. and out in the Northwest also. I know some of the contractors in TV also own big ranches in Tx. But they are Hunting Ranches. Would be hard to build a Retirement communtiy where those are located.
Also I would Imagine that someone would have to pay quite a few SHINNY PENNIES for this land..

I checked with a contact in TX. he knows the people here. He hasnt heard a thing yet. But his ears are open....


Money OUT

[graciegirl]

You know that it is possible that Mark Morse would take known good contractors to Texas to build his home there.

[SteveZ]

If the developer has found property in Texas and wants to duplicate TV there, it sounds like a reasonable business decision and I would hope that investment into the project is possible.

TV is about 6-10 years from total build-out, and the population of the country is aging. Replication of TV elsewhere, especially in another state without an income tax and fewer water restrictions, makes sense.

Putting such a project together is not something that one does in a couple of months. Dealing with state and local governments for all sorts of tax concessions, zoning changes, water rights, and a myriad of other items are efforts that move at the pace of snail and have a habit of looping. Also, prudent business logic is to have projects overlap.

If the TV developer has interest in re-doing TV elsewhere, I say Good Luck and thanks for making the Florida TV so enjoyable.

[SteveFromNY]

If the developer has found property in Texas and wants to duplicate TV there, it sounds like a reasonable business decision and I would hope that investment into the project is possible.

TV is about 6-10 years from total build-out, and the population of the country is aging. Replication of TV elsewhere, especially in another state without an income tax and fewer water restrictions, makes sense.

Putting such a project together is not something that one does in a couple of months. Dealing with state and local governments for all sorts of tax concessions, zoning changes, water rights, and a myriad of other items are efforts that move at the pace of snail and have a habit of looping. Also, prudent business logic is to have projects overlap.

If the TV developer has interest in re-doing TV elsewhere, I say Good Luck and thanks for making the Florida TV so enjoyable.


Steve,
Very good points. Maybe he is planning for a follow-on project for once TV is complete? That could be a very real possibility I guess.

[GMONEY]

Depending on the build rate, which flucuates daily, it could take as much as 2-3 years to build out the north side of 466a. I keep hearing all is put on hold for the south side of 466a and that it might be for sale. Last couple of weeks have been real busy doing new homes. now it has slowed down alot again.
If they were to build in TX or which ever state, there is alot involved that most dont know is involved. Like SteveZ said, there are zoning issues, water rights issues, irragation issues, A whole bunch of Gov and State issues with bonds and all. Then you have to have the suppliers and contractors that will go on board and give you the best prices possible. Texas is big and nice, but you got to have the right place there to do it. Everything would have to fit nicely in that area.
See what happens. But I do keep hearing about the sale of the land, just dont know what will happen.

Money out

[Irish Rover]

During the last ten years of my printing career the company that I worked for was bought three times. Each time we got larger until we were the largest printing company in the world. Before each takeover (buyout) the company denied it was going to happen. Mr. Morse would be silly if he doesn't expand his empire with the terrific formula he has developed at TV. The weather in south Texas is pretty nice year round.

[Boomer]

I have often wondered if it would be possible for the family to simply decide to issue an IPO.

Boomer

[GMONEY]

After reading the recap on the VHA meeting, it would seem that they are not selling, they are talking about makeing Brownwood happen and building more. So it would seem that eventially the south side of 466a will happen. maybe alittle slower but will happen. Sounds like Brownwood will be nice.

Money Out

[GERALDINE]

I have often wondered if it would be possible for the family to simply decide to issue an IPO.

Boomer
I'm not a rumormonger either and that's why I decided to post this question on TOTV and see what I got for answers. I figured SOMEBODY out there would know something. I have to agree though that IF they were to do this...they would probably be denying it right up to the end. It wouldn't behoove them to divulge this plan prematurely. Guess we'll all just sit tight and see what happens. If it does....we can say we saw it first on TOTV !!!!

[GERALDINE]

I have often wondered if it would be possible for the family to simply decide to issue an IPO.

Boomer


I'm not a rumormonger either and that's why I decided to post this question on TOTV and see what I got for answers. I figured SOMEBODY out there would know something. I have to agree though that IF they were to do this...they would probably be denying it right up to the end. It wouldn't behoove them to divulge this plan prematurely. Guess we'll all just sit tight and see what happens. If it does....we can say we saw it first on TOTV !!!!

[GMONEY]

I'm not a rumormonger either and that's why I decided to post this question on TOTV and see what I got for answers. I figured SOMEBODY out there would know something. I have to agree though that IF they were to do this...they would probably be denying it right up to the end. It wouldn't behoove them to divulge this plan prematurely. Guess we'll all just sit tight and see what happens. If it does....we can say we saw it first on TOTV !!!!

The only problem with that thought would be that it dont matter to anyone really!! except for all of those who work on construction here. It is not like we all work for this giant company and they dont want to tell you they are selling out. has no affect on the people living here. Not going to change the way they live or go about any day to day dealings. No reason to keep a secret like that.
To build Brown wood means they would need to build out south of 466a anyway. if you dont do that, then Brownwood would be all for nothing...

Money Out

[rshoffer]

After reading the recap on the VHA meeting, it would seem that they are not selling, they are talking about makeing Brownwood happen and building more. So it would seem that eventially the south side of 466a will happen. maybe alittle slower but will happen. Sounds like Brownwood will be nice.

Money OutHowever, a theme in Mr Morse's talk to the VHA was... "We (Morse family) build it... you (the residents) then take over and make it a success. Perhaps, that is an indication that in the future when it is all "built" it will be time for the developer to move on. I don't see anything wrong with that.

[Boomer]

I'm not a rumormonger either and that's why I decided to post this question on TOTV and see what I got for answers. I figured SOMEBODY out there would know something. I have to agree though that IF they were to do this...they would probably be denying it right up to the end. It wouldn't behoove them to divulge this plan prematurely. Guess we'll all just sit tight and see what happens. If it does....we can say we saw it first on TOTV !!!!

Patches,

Your post was far more relevant than my post. Heck, I was just throwing a hypothetical out there. I had not heard anywhere about the possibility of an IPO.

We have not made the move yet. But one of the things that I think might be a real advantage of TV over other retirement communities is the fact that it is so big. TV is unique. TV's size it seems would help to make the momentum pretty unstoppable. The size is one of the things I like best about it. I think it will go on as a retirement community even though so many smaller ones are facing so much difficulty right now with the economy.

And I really have wondered if I were a part of a family that had been so successful and now into 3rd generation I think it is, would I be thinking of issuing an IPO? Or is that even possible? I don't know what the requiremnets are for a company to go public. (And besides all that, the Morse family never calls me so we can discuss it.)

This thread caught my attention because I am greatly interested in future possibilities for TV.

But that IPO thing was just the sound of my mind wandering -- which it often does.

You know, maybe I am a rumormonger. Other people heard the same thing as you did. I just threw mine out there in theory. So if you hear that TV is issuing an IPO, I guess that will also be that it was heard first here on TOTV. (uh oh, and if that happens then I will be a rumormonger for sure, no matter what I said in my little title on that post. uh oh ;))

Boomer

[GMONEY]

However, a theme in Mr Morse's talk to the VHA was... "We (Morse family) build it... you (the residents) then take over and make it a success. Perhaps, that is an indication that in the future when it is all "built" it will be time for the developer to move on. I don't see anything wrong with that.

:agree: :agree: 1000 TIMES

MONEY OUT

[billethkid]

the developer will in fact move on. Yes operations are currently being transitioned from the developer to VCCD and all the other C's'& D's.

And yes the ultimate responsibility for the operations funding will rest with the then home owners....not a mystery.

Many millions of dollars are being accrued for these transitions. The ultimate test comes at a point in time in the future as to whether the money was allocated properly and enough....if not guess what?

BTK

PS that eventuality is no doubt longer down the road than many of us need to worry about!!

[chuckinca]

If the Board members of the various Villages entities were to have experts review the budgets for future expenditures and it was discovered the budgets were not sufficient, the current assessments could be increased as needed.

[golf2140]

The rumor of the Morse family going to Texas was discussed last year when Mark Morse addressed the VHA. He stated flatly that they are not leaving nor are they going to build in Texas. I see the family here long after the final build out. They have a number of business activities that will keep them involved with our community. It is my hope that they stay involved as long as I live here. They have done a great job and improve with each new section.

[graciegirl]

Repeating rumors like this is dangerous to the investment that all of us have made in real property and ultimately in our way of lives. I try hard not to repeat unsubstantiated and inflamatory issues like this.

[SteveZ]

Business reality is that if the developer really wants a TV-II in Texas, then it would be a marketing imperative to make sure that TV-I is a rousing and continuing success, as all marketing of a TV-II would point to TV-I as the potential for what a TV-II would ev eventually be. Conversely, any developer screw-up or abandonment of TV-1 would advversly effect sales for a TV-II.

So, any developer action to make a TV-II in the future would be nothing but good in the end for TV-I residents

[SteveFromNY]

Repeating rumors like this is dangerous to the investment that all of us have made in real property and ultimately in our way of lives. I try hard not to repeat unsubstantiated and inflamatory issues like this.

I'm not sure about that GG. Even if developement stopped when the building north of 466A was completed, there'd still be a community with 70,000 people and all of the existing amenities. It isn't like the stories of developers building a few homes in a community and packing up before the pool gets installed or the one community center gets built. I doubt that if the developer were to leave and go some where else to repeat their success, they would leave a negative legacy behind them anyway. So I am comfortable discussing this one. It's not like rumors of crimes, it's just a discussion of potential business decisions.
And one day the developer will be done. That point will come. And once it does, the value of TV shouldn't change at all. I can't see how our investments would be at risk because they are no longer actively developing. Just my 2 cents.

[thegreenerside]

The Morse family will stay to complete The Villages, after all he is going to make a fortune on the Seminole Casino that will be built in Brownwood.

[Muncle]

A couple issues:

1. Does Texas have the equivalent of the CDD concept? Without this, it would be almost impossible to build a TV II. It might make more sense for then to build TV II elsewhere in Florida. It's a big state.

2. In her column last week, Janet Tutt thanked a couple residents who came to her with rumors they'd heard. She was able to set the record straight and allay some fears before the rumors got out of hand. I do question her decision not to cite the rumors and repeat her refutation so that the rest of us could get the facts even if we'd not yet heard the rumor. Forearmed and all that.

3. As to the way TV is built v. so many other developers (per NY Steve), it reminds me of how the Air Force would build a base. First the build the O club, followed closely by the NCO Club. Then they build housing, with officers' homes first and barracks last. Then come morale support, i.e., golf course, bowling alley, gym. Then the offices. Now, of course, they're out of money so they go back to Congress for funding for the hangars, flight line, and runways. I heard this from an Army engineer, so I could be wrong.



`

[graciegirl]

I'm not sure about that GG. Even if developement stopped when the building north of 466A was completed, there'd still be a community with 70,000 people and all of the existing amenities. It isn't like the stories of developers building a few homes in a community and packing up before the pool gets installed or the one community center gets built. I doubt that if the developer were to leave and go some where else to repeat their success, they would leave a negative legacy behind them anyway. So I am comfortable discussing this one. It's not like rumors of crimes, it's just a discussion of potential business decisions.
And one day the developer will be done. That point will come. And once it does, the value of TV shouldn't change at all. I can't see how our investments would be at risk because they are no longer actively developing. Just my 2 cents.

What you just said makes sense and I agree with you. It just proves that some of us are not too old or proud to change our mind after the presentation of a good argument.

[downeaster]

If a developer finds a profitable method of developing why should he stop with just one unit?
MacDonald's didn't. Wendy's didn't. Donald Trump didn't, etc.
Of course finding a suitable location with a similar advantages (CDD concept, friendly compliant politicians, etc.) could be a challenge.

[dillywho]

It could just be that one day Mr. Morse will decide to retire, sit back, and enjoy the fruits of his labor. He's not old, but he's not exactly a young whipper-snapper, either. Maybe when this finally builds out, by then some of the family's offspring will do something just as they did. Just a thought.

[diskman]

The Morse family will stay to complete The Villages, after all he is going to make a fortune on the Seminole Casino that will be built in Brownwood.

not to steal the thread,but i have not heard this before :shrug::2excited::pepper2::coolsmiley:

[Mallory]

I believe there is a large parcel of land out around Crosby, TX that could become available. Owner has recently retired and relocated to Dallas, and has some political influence. Is also a friend of The Villages developers.

I don't see anything wrong with duplicating The Villages concept elsewhere. It certainly worked for Del Webb.

[chuckinca]

not to steal the thread,but i have not heard this before :shrug::2excited::pepper2::coolsmiley:

About a year ago there were a lot of posts about a proposed (Quarter?) Horse Race Track with a card room. The race track seemed to be a front for getting the card room approved. Haven't heard much about it since early summer last year.

.

[GMONEY]

That would of been the horse park. But that has nothing to do with Brownwood
I have not heard of that before either...... anyone know anything about a Casino in The Villages????????????????????????? that woud seem odd..

Money Out

[SteveZ]

Setting up a casino in Florida is no easy matter. If the land where the casino is to be located is not Indian tribal land, there's a whole host of hoops to include a requirement for county (or city) approval for the gambling establishment.

We just went through that in Sumter County with the quarter-horse track that was voted down. It would seem doubtful that anyone would invest the necessary time and capital for a casino which, based on the most recent attempt to bring legalized gambling to Sumter County, is going to be tossed by the voters.

Casino? Pardon the pun, but don't bet one it!

[Bogie Shooter]

That's how these d--- stupid rumors get started. Now this thread will become a poll for having gambling or not in TV.