A very unsettling experience with Community Watch

[Talk Host]

Last week, I was riding my motorcycle and wearing a brand new jacket, so I didn't have my gate card with me. I was forced to go to the "Visitors" gate at Chatham to enter.

When I arrived at the gate, there was a "community watch" car sitting in the traffic lane and the driver was talking to two people in the "guard" house. I stopped behind the car and waited. And waited. And waited some more.

I could see that the gate guard was getting a little nervous about me being held up such a long time. None the less, the community watch driver kept talking and laughing and gesturing with his hands while telling his stories.

I finally decided that he must not be aware that I was behind him waiting, so I "blipped" my horn. (Not a blast, not a honk, not a blare, just a blip")

Well, the community watch driver looked up in his rear view mirror, shoved his gear shift into park, and got out of the car. He strutted back to me with fire in his eyes. He bellied up to my face and demanded "DO YOU HAVE SOME KIND OF PROBLEM?"

At this point, I could see that I had to maintain my composure or this guy was going to fly into a rage. I calmly said, "If you're going to talk, please pull off to the side so you don't block traffic."

His reply was ".......I'm on business, I can sit here." (I clearly saw him talking and laughing with the usual arm and hand gestures of a funny story being told) I forget his exact wording, but he indicated that I shouldn't be using this gate, that I should be using my card at the 'residents' gate. (how could he know I wasn't a guest).

I could see that he was on the edge and I wasn't about to exacerbate the situation. I also observed over his shoulder that the people in the guard house were very nervous and shocked at his behavior. I said, "please move so I can go in."

His reply was "......if you got a problem with me, that's my boss right there (as he pointed to the guy in the guard house." He said a few more things then got in his car and drove away.

Neither of the people at the guard house offered any comments about the episode. During his rampage, they did, a couple of times try to encourage me to back up and go over to the residents gate. I guess to get away from the guy. It's not so easy to do on a motorcycle.

I don't mind telling you that I was really frightened by this guy. My hands were trembling when it was over.

So, when I got home, I called the office in charge of Community Watch and told my story. They said they would investigate.

About four hours later, I got a call from one of the top managers who told me that security cameras at the gate recorded the guy getting out of his car and coming back to confront me. He apologized all over the place and assured me that the proper disciplinary action would be taken. He said that this was certainly not the behavior that they allow from their employees. I am satisfied with that. I do hope that this guy doesn't blow up at somebody else. Things could turn out differently. If he had been a police officer, he could have been charged with "official oppression."

This was purely a case of "road rage" on the part of the community watch guy. What if I had been a visitor, a guest or a home buyer?

It has been my observation that, for the most part, community watch does, whatever it is that they do, without much fanfare. This particular guy sure changed things that day.

I wonder if Mr. Morse was told about it.

[Bogie Shooter]

Glad you got the response you did from the manager from Community Watch.
I doubt if Mr Moorse gets involved with these kind of details of happenings every day.

[Talk Host]

I doubt if Mr Moorse gets involved with these kind of details of happenings every day.

Ya, you're probably right, but my emotions want me to think that he was told. I know he wasn't and shouldn't have been, I guess.

[golfnut]

Why didn't you ask him to have his boss come out of the guard house to talk to you. If you suspected that it wasn't his boss in there (which it obviously wasn't) I would have asked him to have a sherriff's car dispatched to the scene....GN

[Talk Host]

Why didn't you ask him to have his boss come out of the guard house to talk to you. If you suspected that it wasn't his boss in there (which it obviously wasn't) I would have asked him to have a sherriff's car dispatched to the scene....GN


After a thing like this, you think of all kinds of stuff you should have said and done. At the time, shock doesn't allow for clear thinking lots of times. I was using all of my energy to keep calm and defuse the situation.

[Campbell soup]

I think you did the right thing by keeping your head and defusing the incident. I am glad....that you did call the management. Hopefully, this guy will be written up for this serious infraction.

[SUNNYMARYANN]

I believe you reacted and behaved admirably.

[mokey]

I would not let it go there. I would want to know what action was taken. Did you see his name tag? I'm afraid had it been me it would not have ended so peaceful. I admire your patience.:cus:

[jim1941]

I'll bet your hassle didn't appear in the Daily Sun.

[ChattanoogaTn]

Well, the community watch driver looked up in his rear view mirror, shoved his gear shift into park, and got out of the car. He strutted back to me with fire in his eyes. He bellied up to my face and demanded "DO YOU HAVE SOME KIND OF PROBLEM?"

[B]YOU GOT MORE PATIENCE THAN ME!! I WOULDA GONE TO JAIL!!! :cus:

[Bogie Shooter]

I'll bet your hassle didn't appear in the Daily Sun.

Why should it?

[Don H]

Forget disciplinary action. I think a personality like that shouldn't be on Community Watch. Police departments try to screen that type of individual from their forces during pre-employment testing. While the Community Watch is not the police, similar guidelines would be appropriate.

[SteveFromNY]

Ya, you're probably right, but my emotions want me to think that he was told. I know he wasn't and shouldn't have been, I guess.

A letter to Mr Morse might be a good idea. Even if he never sees it, someone's boss's, boss's, boss's boss will and potentially cause some drastic action for that idiot. If he's small minded enough to be on a power trip as a result of riding in a Community Watch car, well, he shouldn't be. Get his butt fired. I for one don't want anything but the helpful people I've met on Community Watch.

[chuckinca]

Well, the community watch driver looked up in his rear view mirror, shoved his gear shift into park, and got out of the car. He strutted back to me with fire in his eyes. He bellied up to my face and demanded "DO YOU HAVE SOME KIND OF PROBLEM?"

[B]YOU GOT MORE PATIENCE THAN ME!! I WOULDA GONE TO JAIL!!! :cus:



Me Dos!

Nobody messes with Chi Town South Siders like that - especially if they were from the Chatham area of Chicago at the Chatham gate of TV.

.

[BUC]

You showed remarkable restraint. I would hope that in the same situation I'd react the same as you, but ????

[In awe of TV]

You did very well TH and sorry to hear that you were unnerved - totally unnecessary. Two wrongs don't make a right, you took the high road and kudos to you - too many hot heads around. Making a scene would have elevated a ridiculous situation. I hope the appropriate action was taken to bring him down to earth so this doesn't happen again.

An itsy bitsy bit of authority seems to boost the ego of some. :rant-rave:

You done good.

[tankdvr1950]

you certainly have more patience than i would TH...but you probably handled it the right way

[ajdeck]

Last week, I was riding my motorcycle and wearing a brand new jacket, so I didn't have my gate card with me. I was forced to go to the "Visitors" gate at Chatham to enter.

When I arrived at the gate, there was a "community watch" car sitting in the traffic lane and the driver was talking to two people in the "guard" house. I stopped behind the car and waited. And waited. And waited some more.

I could see that the gate guard was getting a little nervous about me being held up such a long time. None the less, the community watch driver kept talking and laughing and gesturing with his hands while telling his stories.

I finally decided that he must not be aware that I was behind him waiting, so I "blipped" my horn. (Not a blast, not a honk, not a blare, just a blip")

Well, the community watch driver looked up in his rear view mirror, shoved his gear shift into park, and got out of the car. He strutted back to me with fire in his eyes. He bellied up to my face and demanded "DO YOU HAVE SOME KIND OF PROBLEM?"

At this point, I could see that I had to maintain my composure or this guy was going to fly into a rage. I calmly said, "If you're going to talk, please pull off to the side so you don't block traffic."

His reply was ".......I'm on business, I can sit here." (I clearly saw him talking and laughing with the usual arm and hand gestures of a funny story being told) I forget his exact wording, but he indicated that I shouldn't be using this gate, that I should be using my card at the 'residents' gate. (how could he know I wasn't a guest).

I could see that he was on the edge and I wasn't about to exacerbate the situation. I also observed over his shoulder that the people in the guard house were very nervous and shocked at his behavior. I said, "please move so I can go in."

His reply was "......if you got a problem with me, that's my boss right there (as he pointed to the guy in the guard house." He said a few more things then got in his car and drove away.

Neither of the people at the guard house offered any comments about the episode. During his rampage, they did, a couple of times try to encourage me to back up and go over to the residents gate. I guess to get away from the guy. It's not so easy to do on a motorcycle.

I don't mind telling you that I was really frightened by this guy. My hands were trembling when it was over.

So, when I got home, I called the office in charge of Community Watch and told my story. They said they would investigate.

About four hours later, I got a call from one of the top managers who told me that security cameras at the gate recorded the guy getting out of his car and coming back to confront me. He apologized all over the place and assured me that the proper disciplinary action would be taken. He said that this was certainly not the behavior that they allow from their employees. I am satisfied with that. I do hope that this guy doesn't blow up at somebody else. Things could turn out differently. If he had been a police officer, he could have been charged with "official oppression."

This was purely a case of "road rage" on the part of the community watch guy. What if I had been a visitor, a guest or a home buyer?

It has been my observation that, for the most part, community watch does, whatever it is that they do, without much fanfare. This particular guy sure changed things that day.

I wonder if Mr. Morse was told about it.



Great for you! Don't need people like that "helping" protect the neighborhood. Just think if he was a cop with a gun and that attitude... He should be taken off the job.

aj

[Muncle]

TH,
You done good! When someone like this is on a power trip, arguing only feeds the flames, and most reasonable comments are interpreted by them as arguing. Polite reaction on your part reinforced your positive impression on the witnesses (other community watch employees) and made the jerk look even more the jerk. When (and I hope not If) the supervisors looked into the events in further detail, you were more likely to get a good reaction from the guys at the gate and less likely to get CYA and sticking up for a buddy.

Again, you handle the event and the aftermath well. Maybe email a copy of your post to Janet Tutt?




`

[djl8412]

TH,
You done good! When someone like this is on a power trip, arguing only feeds the flames, and most reasonable comments are interpreted by them as arguing. Polite reaction on your part reinforced your positive impression on the witnesses (other community watch employees) and made the jerk look even more the jerk. When (and I hope not If) the supervisors looked into the events in further detail, you were more likely to get a good reaction from the guys at the gate and less likely to get CYA and sticking up for a buddy.

Again, you handle the event and the aftermath well. Maybe email a copy of your post to Janet Tutt?




`

Finally, a sensible response other than whining to Mr. Morse. He is the developer and should not be involved. Community Watch is governed by the CDD and is the employer of it's personnel.

[SteveFromNY]

Finally, a sensible response other than whining to Mr. Morse. He is the developer and should not be involved. Community Watch is governed by the CDD and is the employer of it's personnel.

Interesting response, but I can't say I agree.
In my cynical view of the world, enven though Mr Morse's signature may not appear on the offender's paycheck, while this community is still building he is the power here. It is in his best interest (and the community's) that this power-abusive idiot NOT be permitted to work here. Imagine the impact of this fool on a prospective buyer, and then that person's influence via word of mouth once he's back home. And I think making Mr Morse aware of this situation and prodding him to react will result in more complete and decisive action than making his "employer" aware of the situation.
So I don't think it's whining at all, but rather cutting to the chase and getting the appropriate folks who have both a serious vested interest and the power to make it different. My 2 cents.

[downeaster]

Finally, a sensible response other than whining to Mr. Morse. He is the developer and should not be involved. Community Watch is governed by the CDD and is the employer of it's personnel.

I wouldn't consider reporting a problem is whining whether it is to the VCDD or the top guy.
Having said that, I expect those in charge are already aware of it. I'll bet they keep tabs on this site. What better way to keep track of trends than reading what is being posted here.

[Cassie325]

Why wouldn't you call Chief Michael Tucker....he is the head of the Community Watch!

[spk7951]

For my two cents if someone wanted to pursue a compliant against an individual in Community Watch my suggestion would be to start with the department head and if not satisfied then keep going up the ladder so to speak. Probably will get better results that way then going right to the top.

[downeaster]

For my two cents if someone wanted to pursue a compliant against an individual in Community Watch my suggestion would be to start with the department head and if not satisfied then keep going up the ladder so to speak. Probably will get better results that way then going right to the top.

If you read the original post you will see that is what Talkhost did. Following is from his post:

"So, when I got home, I called the office in charge of Community Watch and told my story. They said they would investigate.

About four hours later, I got a call from one of the top managers who told me that security cameras at the gate recorded the guy getting out of his car and coming back to confront me. He apologized all over the place and assured me that the proper disciplinary action would be taken. He said that this was certainly not the behavior that they allow from their employees. I am satisfied with that. I do hope that this guy doesn't blow up at somebody else. Things could turn out differently. If he had been a police officer, he could have been charged with "official oppression."

Based on that, it seems he got results. My guess is the offender got the can sometime during that four hour lapse.

BTW, security cameras scored a point!

[djl8412]

I used the term "whining" because IMHO I believe that taking a complaint to someone who may have political or affluent influence outside the responsible department(s) is many times for convenience and can make issues more tangled than they should be. CDD is the Villages legal government entity when it purchases property from the developer, so he should cut his ties there. All of us spend monies in taxes and fees for CDD government employees and services so they should be allowed to govern without outside influence. If they can't then we are throwing our money into a bottomless pit. Let the chain-of-command structure work as it should.

[bebemary]

Does anyone agree with me that this matter is becoming blown out of proportion? It's not as if this man was a concentration camp guard, and deserves banishment forever or the electric chair. Yes, he screwed up and it sounds to me as if the original victim did all the right things to report the matter and have action taken. Let Community Watch take care of this bully and move on, at least that's my thought.

[Talk Host]

Does anyone agree with me that this matter is becoming blown out of proportion? It's not as if this man was a concentration camp guard, and deserves banishment forever or the electric chair. Yes, he screwed up and it sounds to me as if the original victim did all the right things to report the matter and have action taken. Let Community Watch take care of this bully and move on, at least that's my thought.

NO, I don't think it's being blown out of proportion. This is our community. We live here. We need to stay in charge. I think people need to discuss this stuff. If it was a city and a policeman acted that way, it would be big news.

Which brings up a good question, "is this our community?' Are we in charge, or are we living here at the pleasure of those in charge?

[ChattanoogaTn]

Which brings up a good question, "is this our community?' Are we in charge, or are we living here at the pleasure of those in charge?


Very well put. I agree with you. It could have been a "lot" worse and I commend you for following up with the complaint! :beer3:

[downeaster]

:agree:Which brings up a good question, "is this our community?' Are we in charge, or are we living here at the pleasure of those in charge?


Very well put. I agree with you. It could have been a "lot" worse and I commend you for following up with the complaint! :beer3:

:agree:

[spk7951]

Does anyone agree with me that this matter is becoming blown out of proportion? It's not as if this man was a concentration camp guard, and deserves banishment forever or the electric chair. Yes, he screwed up and it sounds to me as if the original victim did all the right things to report the matter and have action taken. Let Community Watch take care of this bully and move on, at least that's my thought.

No I do not believe this matter is being blown out of proportion. It appears that the conversation has shifted as to how best to handle this type of situation rather than talking about that particular individual.

[Barefoot]

Does anyone agree with me that this matter is becoming blown out of proportion? It's not as if this man was a concentration camp guard, and deserves banishment forever or the electric chair. Yes, he screwed up and it sounds to me as if the original victim did all the right things to report the matter and have action taken. Let Community Watch take care of this bully and move on, at least that's my thought.


Bebemary, I do agree with you. The Community Watch guy at the gate was on a power trip and was incredibly rude and stupid. He was reported to the office in charge of Community Watch. One of their top managers responded and said "proper disiplinary action would be taken". Talk Host said he is satisfied with the outcome.

I doubt Gary Morse wants to be involved in every conflict that occurs in TV. The CW top manager seems to have immediately stepped up to the problem. Other than tarring and feathering the bad guy, I think the situation has been handled.

[Bryan]

I do not believe the matter is being overblown. This forum was designed for discussion of items of interest to residents. Obviously this incident is of interest to at least some of us.

I am a believer in giving the system a chance to work. Following the proper procedure, reporting the incident to CW and giving them a chance to handle it was the correct thing to do. IF THEY DID NOT STEP UP TO THE PLATE AND HANDLE IT, then it needs to be esclated but again, esclated up the proper chain of command.

It appears the CW management did step up to the plate and that is a good thing.

Does this yokel deserve to be fired over this incident? I don't really know. Let CW management look into it, look at any extenuating circumstances (even long term employees with a perfect record can sometimes have a really bad day - we have no clue of all the circumstances here), and let them handle it. I think it is not unreasonable for the people involved (i.e. Talk Host) to be told how CW management handled the situation, especially if he asks.

The ancillary issue around Mr. Morse is interesting, to say the least. I agree with all those who say he is the developer and has nothing to do with "our" government so need not even be told of this incident. I agree becasue that is technically correct, even if it is far from reality.

"Technically correct" does not always equal reality. Anyone who believes that the Developer is not intimately involved in running "our" government is seriously out of tune with real life.

I personally think we, as TV residents, have way too little to say about how "our" government runs things and the developer has way too much say. This is true throughout TV but especially true south of 466. That is changing slightly and slowely but it is changing. I happen to believe it won't really be "our" government completely until build-out is complete, whenever that may be. Until then, we just have to live with a certain level of "interference" or maybe "influence" from the developer is our governmental affairs. It may not be right, but it is reality.

[bobfl]

Bryan, be careful what you wish for. We have lived in two communities that have gone from Developer control to resident control while we were there. In both cases results were less than you might expect. To replace professional management with a group of inexperienced leaders can often lead to mixed results. Check the web site below and take a look around it is eye opening to say the least. We have found TV to be the most well run community we have seen so far. Of course its not perfect but its about as close as you can get in my opinion.

http://www.ccfj.net/

[Bryan]

Your point is well taken and I actually agree with it. TV is a community of 75,000 residents. "Volunteers" probably should not run it, professionals should! I think my point is that these professionals should be a little more responsive to the residents and a little less responsive to the developer.

I also agree, TV is not perfect but is as close as I have seen. Just because we are close does not mean we stop trying to get better.

[downeaster]

Bryan, your commants make a good point.

However, bobfl's point should be carefully considered.

The last subdivision I lived in was in the early build-out stage when we bought. There was a lot of complaining about the developer. It turns out he was a pussy cat.

Six years later build-out was complete and management was turned over to the residents,(Homeowners' Association in this case). That is when you know what hit the fan. Every special interest group went to war with all the other special interest groups. They were each calling for meetings to plan the downfall of the others. It went from a friendly, pleasant place to live to a war zone.

However there is a bright side. Because of the problems we decided we had to relocate. During that process we discovered The Villages.

The rest, as they say, is history.

[Muncle]

NO, I don't think it's being blown out of proportion. This is our community. We live here. We need to stay in charge. I think people need to discuss this stuff. If it was a city and a policeman acted that way, it would be big news.

Which brings up a good question, "is this our community?' Are we in charge, or are we living here at the pleasure of those in charge?

Okay TH, you have been caught hijacking the thread. I'd report you to the administrators, TOTV's version of the Dementors, but I can see your point and you raise a good issue, always ripe for discussion.

"Are we in charge, or are we living here at the pleasure of those in charge?" Seems a simple question, but unfortunately is quite complicated. Everything about out governmental structure is determined by the CDD guidelines in Florida Statues Chapter 190, including the evolution from developer to voter control. It's not perfect, but it has allowed for creation of TV and does lead to ""home rule."

By nature of the beast, the older CDDs are more evolved toward control by the voters. The areas north of 466 now elect all their CDD supervisors. These bodies elect the reps on the Amenities Committee (drawing a blank on the name). Yes, the Developer, in his role as land owner and commercial real estate investor, controls the Village Center CDD. In the north, supervisors are elected by registered Florida voters, the same as the Lady Lake Mayor or Sumter County Commissioner. Some may claim that this disenfranchises snowbirds who choose to keep their hope state registration or our Canadian, British, or Nepalese brethren who snowbird or more and cannot get voting rights. Sorry, too bad.

South of 466, we're in more of a hodgepodge. District 5 has been around for quite a bit and we elect most of our supervisors. However, I think we still do the landowner vote -- one vote per lot/house/home, regardless of the voting registration status. Snowbirds, snowflakes, and Brits can all vote, one vote per household. The developer as a landowner is a non-factor in District 5 and now may be gone from 6. District 7 still has a ways to go and 8 is almost all developer land, so he gets almost all the votes. We don't have an AAC or a seat on the existing one, but it's coming. Have no idea what the will do with south of 466A. Will that be part of the Sumter Landing Community Development Districts or will a third unit be created? The answers are out there, but I'm just too lazy/apathetic to ask.

Someone has said TV is a community of 70,000 people. However, it is not a municipal entity of 70,000 people. TV is composed of a whole bunch of quasi-independent entities of 10,000 or so people who operate through a series of inter-governmental agreements.

I'm tired of typing, so to answer your question, "Are we in charge, or are we living here at the pleasure of those in charge?" , I'd say you guys up north are in charge (with some restrictions), we in District 5 are approaching that state, and the folks in CDDs 7 and especially 8 are here at the discretion of the developer. I guess he could put a reactor across 466A from Truman or maybe a pig farm by the Havana driving range.

[graciegirl]

Muncle you are smart as a tack. Everyone I know likes you including me. I love to read what you post!

[bobfl]

Downeaster,

What you describe is EXACTLY what happened to our last community and is still going on to this day! I feel sorry for the folks that are now pretty much trapped until the economy turns around. I always tell my wife how lucky we were to get out of that environment and into the wonderful community we now live in.

[golf2140]

Some very good points are taken by these posts. The residents have started taking some decision making steps north of 466. The ACC has already started a firestorm with some of their decisions. (Cameras in the storage areas, non-residents allowed to attend certain support group meetings.) I have been a resident for nine years and hope that the developer is here when I move away or pass away. Just my thoughts. As we all know when the inmates start running the institution, stuff happens.

Remember to honor our Veterans !!!