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Emmakrock@yahoo.com
12-02-2016, 09:33 AM
Can you believe this guy and a law suit caused the life long learning center to close! This is rediculous. He has a fancy house on a golf course and sues the learning center because he is hearing impaired. My husband is too and this community offers all kinds of privileges that he has now prevented us from enjoying. I have a great idea! MOVE

billethkid
12-02-2016, 09:39 AM
Why is this in political?

TexaninVA
12-02-2016, 09:46 AM
Can you believe this guy and a law suit caused the life long learning center to close! This is rediculous. He has a fancy house on a golf course and sues the learning center because he is hearing impaired. My husband is too and this community offers all kinds of privileges that he has now prevented us from enjoying. I have a great idea! MOVE

What is the sense of entitlement that would cause a person to sue the LLLC in such a manner? Why can't the guy simply get a better hearing aid?

I love the LLLC and have taken courses there. If they close, we ALL lose.

Who is this guy anyway?? I am so disappointed to hear this.

Don Baldwin
12-02-2016, 10:24 AM
In the days of old...an angry mob would show up at his house and "correct" his behavior...problem solved.

We're "civilized" now, so EVERYONE suffers while he goes about doing what he does, making people miserable.

There's something to be said about the old ways.

graciegirl
12-02-2016, 10:27 AM
What is the sense of entitlement that would cause a person to sue the LLLC in such a manner? Why can't the guy simply get a better hearing aid?

I love the LLLC and have taken courses there. If they close, we ALL lose.

Who is this guy anyway?? I am so disappointed to hear this.

I believe he is completely deaf and was involved in these kinds of activities in his lifetime job. To me it feels like someone throwing their weight around and bringing more harm than good. That is MY opinion.

Henryk
12-02-2016, 10:41 AM
Can you believe this guy and a law suit caused the life long learning center to close! This is rediculous. He has a fancy house on a golf course and sues the learning center because he is hearing impaired. My husband is too and this community offers all kinds of privileges that he has now prevented us from enjoying. I have a great idea! MOVE

Cohorts: Plaintiffs are Louis Schwarz, Doris Schwarz, Janice Hickey, Thomas Hickey, Bernie Brown, Elizabeth Holst, Stephen Holst, Joanna Langlais, Francis Langlais, Robert Smart, Richard McElwain, Byron Zimmerman, Shirley Zimmerman, John Wilson, Charles Martin, Randall Walker, Evelyn Walker, Maureen Osgood, Carole Paul, Mary Kay Pickering, Andrew St. John, Karen Russell, Clarence Russell, Richard Woods, Linda Woods, Robert McDevitt, Lynn Stirling, Kathleen McElwain, Herbert Pickering, Barbara Achin, Ronald Achin, Diane St. John, Kenny Hynes, and Mary Wilson. See Third Amended Complaint at 1-2 (Doc. 93).

They should be real proud.

billethkid
12-02-2016, 10:54 AM
How is this such a surprise to so many?

Of all the issues that are in TV, good or bad or just informative, how did this one sneak under the radar of knowledgeable residents and management? (if it did that is).

How did this major element of TV life style process toward demise with no clamor along the way to closure?

TexaninVA
12-02-2016, 11:12 AM
How is this such a surprise to so many?

Of all the issues that are in TV, good or bad or just informative, how did this one sneak under the radar of knowledgeable residents and management? (if it did that is).

How did this major element of TV life style process toward demise with no clamor along the way to closure?

Good question. I was totally and completely surprised by this decision. I think essentially all Villages residents were.

The LLLC is ... uh, make that "was," a net positive to The Villages. While it was not a major factor in our decision to move here, it was certainly a factor and in the "plus" column.

The loss of the LLLC thus has an impact on all of us ... not only just in the amenity sense but, to an extent, financial in terms of loss of desirability and thus market value.

I think both the VHA and POA need to address this issue and quickly. Foremost should be ... what has to happen to get the LLLC back?

MDLNB
12-02-2016, 11:13 AM
There are always those that are such miserable scumbags that they wish everyone else to share in their misery, whether deserved or not. Usually not.

I do not know the details of this case, but I do have a question. How can one manage to get a private institution closed based on their inability to participate, if that institution is not receiving government subsidies?

rustyp
12-02-2016, 11:51 AM
It's easy to hide behind 124000 people. I do hope there is another side of this story - like compromise can be reached. Be interesting to hear from the complainers what their lawyers told them. These cases have a way of ending with the legal team saying I had no way of knowing that would be the outcome. To the legal team - scumbags.

Don Baldwin
12-02-2016, 12:02 PM
Make it free...a "club"...I always thought a lot of the "classes" were pretty weak...more a money making opportunity than anything. I think a lot of people would still teach if there was an interest.

billethkid
12-02-2016, 12:02 PM
Good question. I was totally and completely surprised by this decision. I think essentially all Villages residents were.

The LLLC is ... uh, make that "was," a net positive to The Villages. While it was not a major factor in our decision to move here, it was certainly a factor and in the "plus" column.

The loss of the LLLC thus has an impact on all of us ... not only just in the amenity sense but, to an extent, financial in terms of loss of desirability and thus market value.

I think both the VHA and POA need to address this issue and quickly. Foremost should be ... what has to happen to get the LLLC back?

And their reaction should include how they BOTH provided no information/status of such litigation that had the potential to affect the lifestyle of the residents.

There just has to be more to the story than just the legal public statements.

rustyp
12-02-2016, 12:53 PM
Good idea that the VHA or the POA represent the "lifestyle". Let's see which one has the guts to do more than write the monthly newsletter.

Ron_Ski
12-02-2016, 02:18 PM
No one should be surprised about this. This is the normal outcome of liberal/progressive policies and governance.

Make no mistake, 100,000 white people living a good retirement in an anathema to social justice warriors.

You can be sure this is just the opening salvo to destroying the Villages lifestyle.

Buffalo Jim
12-02-2016, 04:51 PM
Can you believe this guy and a law suit caused the life long learning center to close! This is rediculous. He has a fancy house on a golf course and sues the learning center because he is hearing impaired. My husband is too and this community offers all kinds of privileges that he has now prevented us from enjoying. I have a great idea! MOVE

The is just another case of " Tyranny by a Minority " . Such actions have become the " rule " during the 8 year reign of mr. Obama and his minions .
This is why the issue / action should be considered political .

janmcn
12-02-2016, 05:35 PM
The is just another case of " Tyranny by a Minority " . Such actions have become the " rule " during the 8 year reign of mr. Obama and his minions .
This is why the issue / action should be considered political .


We all knew it would be Obama's fault. It's just surprising it took 15 posts to get there.

Golf View
12-02-2016, 06:55 PM
We all knew it would be Obama's fault. It's just surprising it took 15 posts to get there.

I'm just wondering how many of these aggrieved victims are of the liberal persuasion. I would say most, if not all. They just can't stand the good life we enjoy here. We should be as miserable as they are. :spoken:

Topspinmo
12-02-2016, 07:16 PM
Hey, this is what lawyer's are trained to do! create laws through lobbyists, Sue to keep the flow coming, once get bunch to agree, they get paid whether they win or loose. That's why there called ambience chasers. This what you get when politicians are ex lawyers, get under the table money from lobbyists to create wording that nobody can understand so NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO you can find lawyer that will make you look like saint.

MDLNB
12-02-2016, 07:34 PM
We all knew it would be Obama's fault. It's just surprising it took 15 posts to get there.

Wow, I thought you were going to blame it on Bush again. :a20:

Dr Winston O Boogie jr
12-02-2016, 07:41 PM
How is this such a surprise to so many?

Of all the issues that are in TV, good or bad or just informative, how did this one sneak under the radar of knowledgeable residents and management? (if it did that is).

How did this major element of TV life style process toward demise with no clamor along the way to closure?

My guess is that this is a class action lawsuit initiated by lawyers. From what I have read, the college has made accommodations on eight different occasions and all were rejected. The will never settle for the problem, being corrected, they want money.

All of the plaintiffs are represented by the same law firm, Simon, Eisenberg & Baum, LLP

As much as I love the Lifelong Learning College, kudos to The Villages for not caving.

Mr Schwartz's statements in the unmentionable news source sound like they've been written by a lawyer.

TexaninVA
12-02-2016, 07:42 PM
Cohorts: Plaintiffs are Louis Schwarz, Doris Schwarz, Janice Hickey, Thomas Hickey, Bernie Brown, Elizabeth Holst, Stephen Holst, Joanna Langlais, Francis Langlais, Robert Smart, Richard McElwain, Byron Zimmerman, Shirley Zimmerman, John Wilson, Charles Martin, Randall Walker, Evelyn Walker, Maureen Osgood, Carole Paul, Mary Kay Pickering, Andrew St. John, Karen Russell, Clarence Russell, Richard Woods, Linda Woods, Robert McDevitt, Lynn Stirling, Kathleen McElwain, Herbert Pickering, Barbara Achin, Ronald Achin, Diane St. John, Kenny Hynes, and Mary Wilson. See Third Amended Complaint at 1-2 (Doc. 93).

They should be real proud.

Today’s Daily Sun, December 2nd, ran the story of the LLLC closure on the front page. The paper quoted a spokesman as saying the plaintiffs viewed the LLLC as a “…rich target with deep pockets.” This person also said the school tried for several years to offer reasonable accommodations including hearing interpreters and assisted hearing devices, but to no avail.

The article said 18,000 residents were affected in some manner including course cancellations etc. Also impacted were 200 paid instructors and 50 workers including paid staff and unpaid volunteers – all of whom have now lost their jobs. Thus, there is some type of measurable economic impact here. It’s also clear the collective TV lifestyle for all residents has been negatively impacted by the closure of the LLLC, but to what extent?

It got me to wondering …. there are about 50,000 homes in TV. Not sure what the average (i.e. mean) market value is, but an estimate is $250,000. No one knows the negative $$$ impact the class action will have on all of TV’s homes market value over time. However, if one assumes it’s only ¾ of one percent, and it’s probably at least that, that still amounts to about $90 million in lost housing market value alone due to the untimely end of the LLLC.

Thus, it occurs to me that since this lawsuit is apparently what caused the demise of the LLLC, my guess is someone may well investigate the feasibility of a counter class action suit for damages.

With over 120,000 people negatively impacted by this group’s action, I’m guessing many would consider joining such an effort if offered to them. I guess we’ll see what happens in the next few weeks and months??? Among other things, people will be looking to the HOA and POA to take the leadership role in figuring out what the most appropriate next step should be. I personally don’t know what that should be.

Dr Winston O Boogie jr
12-02-2016, 07:43 PM
No one should be surprised about this. This is the normal outcome of liberal/progressive policies and governance.

Make no mistake, 100,000 white people living a good retirement in an anathema to social justice warriors.

You can be sure this is just the opening salvo to destroying the Villages lifestyle.

The lawsuit also mentions the Resident Lifestyle Clubs. If this holds up, I would think that all of our clubs might be in danger of being disbanded.

Buffalo Jim
12-03-2016, 12:32 AM
Mr. Swartz should be extremely proud of himself . Just more tyranny at the hands of a very small minority .

Don Baldwin
12-03-2016, 06:43 AM
The lawsuit also mentions the Resident Lifestyle Clubs. If this holds up, I would think that all of our clubs might be in danger of being disbanded.

Well then the angry mob WOULD rise up with torches and pitchforks.

Right? We DO have a limit of what we'll take?

Who knows, Hispanics are invading us and we don't seem to really care about that either. The Villages will be "dead" in a few years, the things we loved about it, taken away, diversified away...why not the whole country too?

We'll be dead, so who cares...right?

I do...it's why I speak out.

Send the illegals and send the anchor babies home or face the destruction of your nation and culture.

rubicon
12-03-2016, 06:48 AM
I'll post my thoughts here and on the other thread. This is what happens when an institution accepts federal funding as does the Charter School ie you accept funds following federal rules

Secondly the federal laws of ADA say reasonable accommodations. LLC didn't earn enough to pay for the number of people needed to provide sign language at the various locations/courses.

Third it is the modus operandi of The Villages (Developer & Districts) to remain quiet about such legal matters. Recall IRS dispute in the beginning, the bison, the Wellness Center

Fourth don't expect either the VHA or POA to make an attempt to come to the rescue their both just social clubs.

Personal Best Regards:

Joejohnson
12-03-2016, 06:49 AM
Trump will put an end to special treatment for handicapped people when the business killing regulations get thrown out.

Don Baldwin
12-03-2016, 07:14 AM
Trump will put an end to special treatment for handicapped people when the business killing regulations get thrown out.

I sure hope so...I'm sorry you're handicapped...but it doesn't mean we change the whole world for you.

Businesses have had to spend millions to accommodate handicapped who NEVER frequented their business.

Where does it end? Equal doesn't mean special. Women/minorities/handicapped...they should have equal access, but not SPECIAL access. No lowered standards, no quotas, no special building requirements, no translators, nothing "out of the ordinary".

Don Baldwin
12-03-2016, 07:41 AM
The mentality of these responses is appalling. It shows the white privilege of The Villages and the hate for anyone else who does not conform with the right wing, capitalistic, small mindedness and hateful views of the majority of people who live here. People with disabilities have rights and The Villages needs to conform to the law. Oh but wait, all you whitey rich people think you make the law. Well open your closed eyes and mind. You disgust me with your racism and prejudice and despise for anyone who does not meet your criteria. I think the white right ought to be shipped back to whatever European or other country you originated from. We don't need you here or anywhere for that matter. Take your old stuffy selves and go live with the KKK. They are very popular these days and I am sure expanding their territory.

And you live here...why? Because these rich white people made the BEST place you could possibly live.

Black/brown people didn't make the villages. Black/brown people DESTROY places like the villages.

STANDARDS and a 99% white population is WHY the villages is what it is. Bring in black/brown people, lower the standards...and what do you get? Leesburg, Wildwood. We don't want that.

Ship us back to the white nations we came from? Those OTHER successful countries? White countries do MUCH better than black/brown countries.

WE "built the western civilization" you enjoy living in. The blacks/browns are the ones that aren't needed...what have their people done? They've DESTROYED the few former white countries they have taken over.

You NEED us a lot more than we need you...

You REALLY need to spend some time with those you advocate so...you NEED to visit MLK Blvd in a few cities before you judge US, before you call US racist and bigoted. You haven't SEEN racism until you go into a black/brown inner city. You want to be appalled, see what they think of YOU. They have NO respect or gratitude. Most blacks/browns would be homeless and starving if it wasn't for white peoples generosity. And they hate us. The entire continent of Africa is on perpetual welfare. 3/4 of the world population is black/brown/asian and POOR. They're only alive because we feed them. They reproduce like rabbits, that's why there are so many of then.

I sure hope the KKK is gaining in popularity...they've been TRYING to warn you, they've been TRYING to STOP the brown invasion. They've been fighting what has been destroying this country...diversity. We peaked in the 50s...the "civil rights" of the 60s began a long slow destruction...nationally and culturally. It's almost too late to stop.

Don Baldwin
12-03-2016, 07:50 AM
What a bunch of hypocrites. You do not think people should have special accommodations but you rant and rave when younger people are living in The Villages. You want to live in a special enclave where everyone is white, conforms like a Stepford wife, and follows the same path, eats the same chain restaurant food, rides the same type of golf carts, listens to the same music, and keeps their hair grey and the bellies fat from all the drinking. I bet you are the first to complain when you have to wait for a table in a restaurant. You are showing what a bunch of old goats you are with shallow minds, empty hearts, and white right views. Maybe The Villages is really home to the Nazis in disguise.

Yes...because that's "us". It's called cohesion and common likes and interests keep people together.

YOU want to bring in...dragging pants, sh!tty rap "music", loud obnoxious behavior, stupid behavior, a lack of morals and norms, people who smell funny, act funny, talk funny... People we have NO common bond with. Why? Why would you WANT to live among people you share NOTHING with? I wouldn't move into the inner city because there's nothing I want/need there. So WHY would you want to move here? Because WE did the hard work to EARN our place here? If YOU want a "diversified", a black/brown paradise to live in...make your own...don't move here and destroy ours.

If demanding standards is being a nazi...then guilty as charged. I want the villages to stay a friendly, safe, beautiful, WHITE place.

MDLNB
12-03-2016, 08:16 AM
What a bunch of hypocrites. You do not think people should have special accommodations but you rant and rave when younger people are living in The Villages. You want to live in a special enclave where everyone is white, conforms like a Stepford wife, and follows the same path, eats the same chain restaurant food, rides the same type of golf carts, listens to the same music, and keeps their hair grey and the bellies fat from all the drinking. I bet you are the first to complain when you have to wait for a table in a restaurant. You are showing what a bunch of old goats you are with shallow minds, empty hearts, and white right views. Maybe The Villages is really home to the Nazis in disguise.

Yes, that is why a lot of us moved here. Why did you move here if you don't like it? TO CHANGE IT? Because that is exactly why Yankees move South. They like it down South until they move here and then attempt to change it to reflect their nasty Northern, crime ridden lifestyle. Just so they can complain again.

I am not going to attempt to explain to you why I enjoy living in a predominantly white community. It really has nothing to do with race, but with security or race. Seniors are generally more law abiding than the young that like to act out and rebel against authority. That's why we have a seniors' community. We have rules that everyone agrees to when they move here. Remember the covenants and restrictions that you signed when you purchased? Or, do you even live here? DO NOT come here expecting us to change or conform to your idea of what YOU want it to be. There is plenty of room in America for people like you to live where you don't have to be subjected to our lifestyle. It is your prerogative (even though wrong) to believe that because the community is mostly white that we are racially biased. You still have free thought. All you are doing by accusing us, is making yourself less acceptable to the community. Most of us moved away from people like you. But, you insist on following us around. For some reason, it gives you pleasure to make those around you as miserable as you.

I am still a believer of the old saying of: LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT. It's up to you, but if you want my opinion free of charge, you would be a lot happier if you accepted our community for what it is, instead of what you want it to be. In case you don't know it, I am not a believer or advocate of PC.

MDLNB
12-03-2016, 09:25 AM
I love you that you all are expressing your opinions. It solidifies the view of The Villages being a white privilege community with views of hate and despise for people who are not white fascists. Now go to church tomorrow and pretend you preach love and kindness to others, and acceptance of all. Give your few dollars to the homeless or helpless and think you made a difference. But you see, you do not make a difference because you are full of despise for others. It is really not shocking to read the hate spewed messages of support for the KKK and Nazism. The great thing is God is watching you, seeing you, hearing you, and you will be judged when the time comes. It's good you like the heat in Florida because its going to be really hot where you are going. May what you judge about others come back to haunt you in every way. I feel sorry for those of you, not all of you, who express your disdain for people who are not like you. There are many rational people just expressing their thoughts of what might be done to resolve the situation, but there are some who don't deserve a place on earth.

I feel sorry for you. It's a good thing that you don't live here in The Villages where you have to endure such happiness.

Don Baldwin
12-03-2016, 09:49 AM
Yes, that is why a lot of us moved here. Why did you move here if you don't like it? TO CHANGE IT? Because that is exactly why Yankees move South. They like it down South until they move here and then attempt to change it to reflect their nasty Northern, crime ridden lifestyle. Just so they can complain again.

I am not going to attempt to explain to you why I enjoy living in a predominantly white community. It really has nothing to do with race, but with security or race. Seniors are generally more law abiding than the young that like to act out and rebel against authority. That's why we have a seniors' community. We have rules that everyone agrees to when they move here. Remember the covenants and restrictions that you signed when you purchased? Or, do you even live here? DO NOT come here expecting us to change or conform to your idea of what YOU want it to be. There is plenty of room in America for people like you to live where you don't have to be subjected to our lifestyle. It is your prerogative (even though wrong) to believe that because the community is mostly white that we are racially biased. You still have free thought. All you are doing by accusing us, is making yourself less acceptable to the community. Most of us moved away from people like you. But, you insist on following us around. For some reason, it gives you pleasure to make those around you as miserable as you.

I am still a believer of the old saying of: LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT. It's up to you, but if you want my opinion free of charge, you would be a lot happier if you accepted our community for what it is, instead of what you want it to be. In case you don't know it, I am not a believer or advocate of PC.

Because white people create NICE places to live. That's why they follow us around..."their places" begin to suck as the minorities they WELCOME begin to move in.

I love you that you all are expressing your opinions. It solidifies the view of The Villages being a white privilege community with views of hate and despise for people who are not white fascists. Now go to church tomorrow and pretend you preach love and kindness to others, and acceptance of all. Give your few dollars to the homeless or helpless and think you made a difference. But you see, you do not make a difference because you are full of despise for others. It is really not shocking to read the hate spewed messages of support for the KKK and Nazism. The great thing is God is watching you, seeing you, hearing you, and you will be judged when the time comes. It's good you like the heat in Florida because its going to be really hot where you are going. May what you judge about others come back to haunt you in every way. I feel sorry for those of you, not all of you, who express your disdain for people who are not like you. There are many rational people just expressing their thoughts of what might be done to resolve the situation, but there are some who don't deserve a place on earth.

The RATIONAL thing to do is to take back our culture and our country. Otherwise, we lose it, we become Mexico II...and THEN you'll see what discrimination is REALLY all about. Not this perceived BS that the minorities claim we do. Go to the inner city, go to the Mexican part of town to see what discrimination is REALLY.

You have no clue how low they regard white people, we're there to serve them for past discrepancies.

justjim
12-03-2016, 10:02 AM
Why is this in political?

Well, read some of the posts. It's impossible to have a civil discussion on this forum. Everything is political to some. Those that want to do what is right for the handicap are liberals that just are getting in the way of my lifestyle. That seems to be what I'm hearing here. Like a conservative isn't in favor of accommodation for the hearing impaired.

Just wait until the inmates take over this aslysum. This is just the beginning---wait until the music stops because someone files a lawsuit over not being able to hear the music.

MDLNB
12-03-2016, 10:10 AM
What is most interesting is that those who responded with hate turned a discussion of what should be done to address the issues of people who are hearing impaired to making The Villages a place for only white people who speak English and showed your true "colors" by clearly stating people of color or other languages or who have anything different about them should not be living there. I hope you who show your hate for those who are different or have needs are turning in your handicapped golf cart placards and golf course privilege of driving on the grass on executive courses because of your "disability". And I hope you are not prolonging any medical issues that are going to cost us all more money because you are getting treatments that will prolong your life even though you are ill. Let yourself go, if the rest of us do not have disease why should you use Medicare dollars to get treatment and care? If you are so unfortunate, well so be it, suffer. Of course I do not believe that, but it falls to the same argument people are making that if you were born not hearing, well then, tough luck, you just do not get to do what everyone else does. So if you are sick, tough luck, no treatment, because some of us are not sick and we do not think you deserve any special help. Just please think outside your small mindedness and have compassion for others and find acceptance for all, you know, just what you are going to listen to at church tomorrow. Just find a way to live it instead of paying lip service to it. Or lying in the face of God. Practice your faith by loving all. In the church I go to, I know you are somewhere in the pews, and while I do not have a clue who you are, you do know who does see you in and out of church. Ask for forgiveness and try to open your heart. I know heaven can have a place for you still, but Hell is waiting for your arrival when you speak of hate for others.

Why don't they just get a F***ing hearing aid? Why do they ruin everything for everyone else just because they enjoy being miserable?

Yes, a hearing aid. My wife and I both wear them and I also read lips, self taught by turning the sound off on the TV. Try it instead of making everyone else do without.

Do NOT try to use someone's religion of charity against them. That is a poor excuse for a human being. People like you are scum, leaches that try to use people to their own advantage.

If a person has a handicap, there are more than enough people in the world kind enough that will try to provide assistance. To take advantage of one's disability for personal gain is despicable. Nasty people like that should not even be given an audience.

This is nothing more than the left attempting to destroy a community that was built by a conservative, and that has a majority of conservatives residing in it. The left feels that if one person can not participate, then no one should be able to.

MDLNB
12-03-2016, 10:19 AM
Well, read some of the posts. It's impossible to have a civil discussion on this forum. Everything is political to some. Those that want to do what is right for the handicap are liberals that just are getting in the way of my lifestyle. That seems to be what I'm hearing here. Like a conservative isn't in favor of accommodation for the hearing impaired.

Just wait until the inmates take over this aslysum. This is just the beginning---wait until the music stops because someone files a lawsuit over not being able to hear the music.

Do you read what you write? You sound like a child, stomping her feet and saying "you don't love me. You hate me."

Where do you see anyone saying that they would not help someone that needs assistance? This is not about that at all. This is about a serial complainer that enjoys suing anything establishment, because that person is miserable and wishes everyone else to be miserable. Causing an institution to be shut down is not going to garner sympathy.

If one wishes assistance, they should not DEMAND it.

econprof
12-03-2016, 11:42 AM
I too am deeply saddened by the closing of the LLLC. It outrages me that the actions of a minority can have such a impact on the huge majority. I would gladly participate in any legal actions to try to restore this wonderful amenity. Likewise, I find it outrageous that some comments have made this a political issue and others have resorted to name calling. This accomplishes nothing. Not only should the litigants be ashamed of themselves for even initiating this lawsuit (not to mention the appalling outcome) , but also those who posted some of the aforementioned comments. Positive action is needed, not name calling and political opinions --- can't the Morse family do something?

MDLNB
12-03-2016, 12:05 PM
Of course it's POLITICAL. It's liberals attempting to corrupt anything good in life, in order to make everyone equally miserable.

justjim
12-03-2016, 01:10 PM
Of course it's POLITICAL. It's liberals attempting to corrupt anything good in life, in order to make everyone equally miserable.

So you think everyone involved in this suit is a bad ol' liberal. Of course, you are wrong.

MDLNB
12-03-2016, 01:50 PM
So you think everyone involved in this suit is a bad ol' liberal. Of course, you are wrong.

Did I say "bad ol' liberal?"

ngianni3
12-03-2016, 02:04 PM
I do not think these 34 deaf residents wanted to close the lifelong learning college. Unfortunately the cost to provide hearing impaired services is beyond the scope of volunteer activities. Hopefully this will not extend to 2000 clubs and free rec center activities. We all lose. I am very sad about this.

MDLNB
12-03-2016, 02:13 PM
34 individuals get to ruin it for the other 100,000 residents. Liberal attitudes abound in today's society.

kathicam65
12-03-2016, 04:07 PM
LOL!! Thinking the same thing but wasnt sure if it would be Obamas fault or Hilarys!!

Don Baldwin
12-03-2016, 07:58 PM
Well, read some of the posts. It's impossible to have a civil discussion on this forum. Everything is political to some. Those that want to do what is right for the handicap are liberals that just are getting in the way of my lifestyle. That seems to be what I'm hearing here. Like a conservative isn't in favor of accommodation for the hearing impaired.

Just wait until the inmates take over this aslysum. This is just the beginning---wait until the music stops because someone files a lawsuit over not being able to hear the music.

Where is the limit to PUBLIC assistance for the handicapped? And to what level of handicapped?

Your "analogy" is hardly... These people want SPECIAL accommodations PROVIDED for them. If they NEED whomever or whatever...they are FREE to bring it with them. But to MAKE others bear costs for an individual is out of line and should be unconstitutional. Hell, 80% of the government is unconstitutional. We WERE freer under King George than we are now.

Your analogy would be more accurate if you said they sues because they weren't provided a FRONT ROW seat at the square.

34 individuals get to ruin it for the other 100,000 residents. Liberal attitudes abound in today's society.

157,000 could run them out on a rail..."tar and feathered". That's EXACTLY what they would have done in the days when people took care of their own business. 4,500 showing up per litigant demanding they withdraw their case. It would send quite a message. We're not to be trifled with. Are not some things worth fighting for?

How about your country? It's being invaded by Hispanics...ready to fight for that too?

autumnspring
12-04-2016, 11:08 AM
Can you believe this guy and a law suit caused the life long learning center to close! This is rediculous. He has a fancy house on a golf course and sues the learning center because he is hearing impaired. My husband is too and this community offers all kinds of privileges that he has now prevented us from enjoying. I have a great idea! MOVE

I recall reading a book entitled WHATS WRONG WITH THE AMERICAN LEGAL SYSTEM.

America has more attys per capita then any other country in the world. We also have more suits than any other country in the world.

SIMILAR crap law suits prevented much needed public restrooms being installed in NYC. The initial plan was stopped because the association for the disabled insisted that it MUST be wheelchair accessible. After much study-READ THAT AS EXPENSE-the only solution that the association for the disabled found accessible was to have a person at each booth 24 hours a day 7 days a week.
The cost of course got way out of hand so the plan was dropped. RESULT-a working rest room is rare in NYC the smell of people using the streets and the sanitation issues ARE NOT RARE AT ALL.

THERE IS NO SHORTAGE OF ATTYS IN THE US. THERE DOES SEEM TO BE A SHORTAGE OF ATTYS WITH COMMON SENSE.

autumnspring
12-04-2016, 11:26 AM
Yes, that is why a lot of us moved here. Why did you move here if you don't like it? TO CHANGE IT? Because that is exactly why Yankees move South. They like it down South until they move here and then attempt to change it to reflect their nasty Northern, crime ridden lifestyle. Just so they can complain again.

I am not going to attempt to explain to you why I enjoy living in a predominantly white community. It really has nothing to do with race, but with security or race. Seniors are generally more law abiding than the young that like to act out and rebel against authority. That's why we have a seniors' community. We have rules that everyone agrees to when they move here. Remember the covenants and restrictions that you signed when you purchased? Or, do you even live here? DO NOT come here expecting us to change or conform to your idea of what YOU want it to be. There is plenty of room in America for people like you to live where you don't have to be subjected to our lifestyle. It is your prerogative (even though wrong) to believe that because the community is mostly white that we are racially biased. You still have free thought. All you are doing by accusing us, is making yourself less acceptable to the community. Most of us moved away from people like you. But, you insist on following us around. For some reason, it gives you pleasure to make those around you as miserable as you.

I am still a believer of the old saying of: LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT. It's up to you, but if you want my opinion free of charge, you would be a lot happier if you accepted our community for what it is, instead of what you want it to be. In case you don't know it, I am not a believer or advocate of PC.

Arizona and Nevada used to be a haven for people with disorders such as azthema and tuberculosis the reason was the dry air and low pollen count. PEOPLE ARRIVED and they planted lawns and trees-THAT ARE NOT INDIGENOUS. These foreign, to the environment, plants can only survive with artificial watering AND THE POLLEN COUNT IS MUCH HIGHER THAN IT WOULD BE IN NATURE.

autumnspring
12-04-2016, 11:41 AM
34 individuals get to ruin it for the other 100,000 residents. Liberal attitudes abound in today's society.

Assuming that is true, NO I AM NOT A PARTY IN THE SUIT, many of the people involved signed intot he suit without any thought. THE ATTY WHO STARTED THE SUIT IS THE PROBLEM.

I expect the others once they signed into the suit, if the atty did it correctly FOR HIMSELF, would not give the others the RIGHT to withdraw. As a class action suit, the atty who started the case, LIKELY, lays out all the expenses and ASSUMING THEY WIN THE CASE, gets back all the expenses PLUS ONE THIRD OF THE MONETARY REWARDS.

IN MY OPINION-the atty thought he had a GOLD MINE.
The school likely spent a tidy sum-LOST MONEY THAT COULD HAVE BEEN USED ELSEWHERE AND THE DECISION WAS MADE TO CLOSE THE PROGRAM.

THE ISSUE IS THE ATTY WHO STARTED THIS SELF ONLY SUIT.

AJ32162
12-04-2016, 12:12 PM
Assuming that is true, NO I AM NOT A PARTY IN THE SUIT, many of the people involved signed intot he suit without any thought. THE ATTY WHO STARTED THE SUIT IS THE PROBLEM.

I expect the others once they signed into the suit, if the atty did it correctly FOR HIMSELF, would not give the others the RIGHT to withdraw. As a class action suit, the atty who started the case, LIKELY, lays out all the expenses and ASSUMING THEY WIN THE CASE, gets back all the expenses PLUS ONE THIRD OF THE MONETARY REWARDS.

IN MY OPINION-the atty thought he had a GOLD MINE.
The school likely spent a tidy sum-LOST MONEY THAT COULD HAVE BEEN USED ELSEWHERE AND THE DECISION WAS MADE TO CLOSE THE PROGRAM.

THE ISSUE IS THE ATTY WHO STARTED THIS SELF ONLY SUIT.

The definition of a tragedy: A bus load of lawyers going over a cliff...with one empty seat.:D

Buffalo Jim
12-04-2016, 01:56 PM
We all knew it would be Obama's fault. It's just surprising it took 15 posts to get there.

This situation is representative of the atmosphere his administration fostered .

Don Baldwin
12-04-2016, 02:19 PM
This situation is representative of the atmosphere his administration fostered .

Were they should get the same as us...without EARNING it. It's NOT my fault an entire race can't compete equally with other races. If they haven't earned it, they don't belong...period. NO MORE quotas. No more block-busting "forced diversity". There's a REASON after 150 years...they're STILL no better off than when they were freed. There's a reason the Irish went from slave to equal. There's a reason Italians went from sh!t to equal. There's a reason for Pols, Jews, EVERY "white" race ethnic group. They ALL PROVED their equality. What happened to the blacks? They can't prove it, and we see it every day in the inner cities. Violent, lawless, ignorant behavior. MLK, I AM judging your children by their actions...NOT the color of their skin.

MDLNB
12-04-2016, 03:35 PM
Were they should get the same as us...without EARNING it. It's NOT my fault an entire race can't compete equally with other races. If they haven't earned it, they don't belong...period. NO MORE quotas. No more block-busting "forced diversity". There's a REASON after 150 years...they're STILL no better off than when they were freed. There's a reason the Irish went from slave to equal. There's a reason Italians went from sh!t to equal. There's a reason for Pols, Jews, EVERY "white" race ethnic group. They ALL PROVED their equality. What happened to the blacks? They can't prove it, and we see it every day in the inner cities. Violent, lawless, ignorant behavior. MLK, I AM judging your children by their actions...NOT the color of their skin.

Are you suggesting that the deaf folks in this suit are BLACK? You do know that this thread is about the deaf and the school being shut down, right? As far as I know the guy that initiated it, is not black. He isn't a woman either so no use trying to bend it in that direction.

Try following the flow of the thread. We've already seen how you feel about minorities, women, gays, Muslims, Jews, etc. Try to calm down and be coherent. chilout

rubicon
12-05-2016, 06:07 AM
60 Minutes had a segment on attorneys filing bogus lawsuits under ADA all over the country. wonder if this lawsuit has application here?

Personal Best Regards:

dirtbanker
12-05-2016, 07:46 AM
Mr. Swartz should be extremely proud of himself . Just more tyranny at the hands of a very small minority .

It would do little good to try to speak with him (after all he is deaf), but you could send him a letter sharing your admiration.

The address for Louis J Schwarz can easily be found online.

cmj1210
12-05-2016, 08:06 AM
60 Minutes had a segment on attorneys filing bogus lawsuits under ADA all over the country. wonder if this lawsuit has application here?

Personal Best Regards:



We saw the segment last night in light of this lawsuit. Very disturbing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

dirtbanker
12-05-2016, 09:31 AM
157,000 could run them out on a rail..."tar and feathered". That's EXACTLY what they would have done in the days when people took care of their own business. 4,500 showing up per litigant demanding they withdraw their case. It would send quite a message. We're not to be trifled with. Are not some things worth fighting for?


The ol days of tar and feathering are gone. There are less violent ways to run people out of a community:

Park cars on the street in front of their house day and night (not sure what time restrictions there are), nobody likes to look at other peoples cars in front of their house all the time.

Drive over just to walk your dog in their yard, in fact bring your neighbors dog too. Leave a car behind if you can arrange a ride back. If he says anything flip him off (it would do no good to yell, he can't hear).

Instead of toilet papering and plastic forking, throw Q tips and ear wax remover in his yard.

Join his "deaf club", you know they have to have a club to organize these attacks (might be called the "what you say club"). Wear your ear buds and constantly say "WHAT" to the rest of the members. If they inquire why you want to join; "ask them if you have to be deaf to be a member?" If they say yes, ask them to put that in writing (tell them you are hard of hearing and just want to make sure you understand correctly).

Sign him up on hearing aid websites (use his name and contact information), cut out advertisements from newspaper and magazines (no shortage of those in The Villages) and mail them to him.

Hand write an advertisement for free pit bull puppys with his name and number on it, state you "work second shift so call after 11:30PM". Also mention "hard of hearing, please talk loudly". Place that advertisement in a local biker bar (IE: the Shamrock in Leesburg).

Ron_Ski
12-05-2016, 11:45 AM
We should call them by what they really are, ADA Trolls.

Don Baldwin
12-05-2016, 11:57 AM
The ol days of tar and feathering are gone. There are less violent ways to run people out of a community:

Park cars on the street in front of their house day and night (not sure what time restrictions there are), nobody likes to look at other peoples cars in front of their house all the time.

Drive over just to walk your dog in their yard, in fact bring your neighbors dog too. Leave a car behind if you can arrange a ride back. If he says anything flip him off (it would do no good to yell, he can't hear).

Instead of toilet papering and plastic forking, throw Q tips and ear wax remover in his yard.

Join his "deaf club", you know they have to have a club to organize these attacks (might be called the "what you say club"). Wear your ear buds and constantly say "WHAT" to the rest of the members. If they inquire why you want to join; "ask them if you have to be deaf to be a member?" If they say yes, ask them to put that in writing (tell them you are hard of hearing and just want to make sure you understand correctly).

Sign him up on hearing aid websites (use his name and contact information), cut out advertisements from newspaper and magazines (no shortage of those in The Villages) and mail them to him.

Hand write an advertisement for free pit bull puppys with his name and number on it, state you "work second shift so call after 11:30PM". Also mention "hard of hearing, please talk loudly". Place that advertisement in a local biker bar (IE: the Shamrock in Leesburg).

All good suggestions but I think an angry mob of several thousand with torches and pitchforks sends a clearer message.

MDLNB
12-05-2016, 02:26 PM
All good suggestions but I think an angry mob of several thousand with torches and pitchforks sends a clearer message.

It works for the left......or maybe it hasn't.

autumnspring
12-05-2016, 04:23 PM
Do you read what you write? You sound like a child, stomping her feet and saying "you don't love me. You hate me."

Where do you see anyone saying that they would not help someone that needs assistance? This is not about that at all. This is about a serial complainer that enjoys suing anything establishment, because that person is miserable and wishes everyone else to be miserable. Causing an institution to be shut down is not going to garner sympathy.

If one wishes assistance, they should not DEMAND it.

BUT, you are clearly what the class nerd becomes in OLD AGE.
I was not in any way involved in this suit.
The sad fact is the only one guilty of this fiasco is the atty who started the suit THINKING HE NEEDS TO FEEL IMPORTANT OR HOPES TO LINE HIS POCKETS.
If, the information posted is correct this was a class action suit. Other than the atty the others likely were talked into it and have not put up any money.
If, I am correct, the others could not stop the case if they wanted to.
The school likely did not have the funds to fight this case so they simply had no choice but to close.

FAR MORE IMPORTANT ON THE LARGE SCALE- will we now discover that things like the golf courses need to wheelchair accessible? Tennis? Basketball?

Sadly, I do not expect this to end with this one suit

autumnspring
12-05-2016, 04:41 PM
It would do little good to try to speak with him (after all he is deaf), but you could send him a letter sharing your admiration.

The address for Louis J Schwarz can easily be found online.

Just a suggestion.
Assuming he is truly deaf clearly he can read and write.

I am not an atty BUT, a registered return receipt letter, EVEN IF THE PERSON DOES NOT ACCEPT IT, after three attempts to deliver the post office will return it to the sender AND LEGALLY IT HAS BEEN DELIVERED.

I've not done this in years BUT, for a few extra bucks you can send a registered letter RESTRICTED DELIVERY/

,MR SCHWARTS WOULD THEN NEED TO DRIVE TO THE POST OFFICE TO SIGN FOR IT AS WE DO NOT HAVE DELIVERY TO YOUR DOOR

I do not believe in fighting fair. I HAVE LITTLE EXPERIENCE IN LOOSING.
You could also come up with as many small claims court cases as you feel you need where MR Schwartz would need to attend to defend. If, he refuses to come to court he will lopse you then can after whatever the number of attempts is in Florida law-back home it was three letters, you send the sheriff to his home to collect.

MORAL OF THiS POST-you do not want to fight the battle the expect.
We all have read the story of David vs Goliath-had David fought the battle that Goliath wanted, DAVID HAD NO CHANCE.

dbussone
12-05-2016, 05:43 PM
BUT, you are clearly what the class nerd becomes in OLD AGE.

I was not in any way involved in this suit.

The sad fact is the only one guilty of this fiasco is the atty who started the suit THINKING HE NEEDS TO FEEL IMPORTANT OR HOPES TO LINE HIS POCKETS.

If, the information posted is correct this was a class action suit. Other than the atty the others likely were talked into it and have not put up any money.

If, I am correct, the others could not stop the case if they wanted to.

The school likely did not have the funds to fight this case so they simply had no choice but to close.



FAR MORE IMPORTANT ON THE LARGE SCALE- will we now discover that things like the golf courses need to wheelchair accessible? Tennis? Basketball?



Sadly, I do not expect this to end with this one suit



Just as an aside, the golf courses make special accommodations for handicapped golfers. One can reserve special carts, and a cart will be delivered to a golf course of your choice.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161205/1bc337bfa20deca2aeb3ab0684aa7129.jpg

I've seen them in use numerous times.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

zigzag
12-06-2016, 08:12 AM
We thought when we moved here we were rid New York City values, lawyers and the plaintiff bar behind us. Why don't they move back North where they will be comfortable with their own kind?

MDLNB
12-06-2016, 08:55 AM
We thought when we moved here we were rid New York City values, lawyers and the plaintiff bar behind us. Why don't they move back North where they will be comfortable with their own kind?

Totally agree! ..:highfive:

Topspinmo
12-06-2016, 09:04 AM
I do not think these 34 deaf residents wanted to close the lifelong learning college. Unfortunately the cost to provide hearing impaired services is beyond the scope of volunteer activities. Hopefully this will not extend to 2000 clubs and free rec center activities. We all lose. I am very sad about this.

No they wanted some money that Mr. S. promised. He Mr. S probably made good living from this kind of law suit. What backfired was the closing of the LLLC. Now They have to live with that.

O by the way Some people can't just get hearing aid due to there are no functioning ear drum to feed the brain with noise Except buzzing sound. Those are the ones that need and sign language interpreter. But, you would expect in retirement community by now would of overcome these problems? But, I guess winning the ghetto lottery just too tempting.

MDLNB
12-06-2016, 09:28 AM
No they wanted some money that Mr. S. promised. He Mr. S probably made good living from this kind of law suit. What backfired was the closing of the LLLC. Now They have to live with that.

O by the way Some people can't just get hearing aid due to there are no functioning ear drum to feed the brain with noise Except buzzing sound. Those are the ones that need and sign language interpreter. But, you would expect in retirement community by now would of overcome these problems? But, I guess winning the ghetto lottery just too tempting.

How much more would EVERY class cost if it was required to pay for an interpreter? It's admirable that some want to accommodate the deaf, but maybe it is just not a viable option and that is why the center is closing down.

Not to change the subject, but I find it puzzling that not ALL of these homes in The Villages have handicap access doorways. Meaning, in some other states it is a requirement that all ground level entryways have wide enough openings to accommodate wheel chairs. Just saying.

MDLNB
12-06-2016, 09:29 AM
Is this subject REALLY considered to be related to the political forum?

billethkid
12-06-2016, 09:56 AM
Is this subject REALLY considered to be related to the political forum?

NO!

It is someone's biased opinion that the political forum is the only place where dissenting views are allowed!!!!

MDLNB
12-06-2016, 10:02 AM
NO!

It is someone's biased opinion that the political forum is the only place where dissenting views are allowed!!!!

That is a good point.

eviemaurer
12-06-2016, 06:57 PM
Please attend the Welcome Wednesday Meeting tomorrow, Dec 7 at 11:00 am in the administration office upstairs; go in the door in the breezeway next to Starbucks. Maybe we can learn "The rest of the story", and get some answers. Welcome Wednesday is a program designed to give residents the opportunity to learn about ongoing projects, address rumors and have their questions answered by District staff. Please join us each Wednesday at 11:00 a.m. at the District office located at 984 Old Mill Run to have the opportunity to hear first-hand about the latest rumors and meet District Board Supervisors from your CDD and others

jblum315
12-10-2016, 05:28 PM
As far as I know, the LLC offerings are for the purpose of entertainment and information - I mean they are not college courses that will earn you a degree or help you get a job.

So, people fill their leisure time in different ways and I don't see why a hearing-impaired person can't find a different way of getting entertainment and information - reading or watching videos or movies. Visually-impaired people mostly listen. Same idea.