Alinsky

[Guest]

This is an excellent piece on the Alinsky affect on our President. I am sure that those who blindly voted for him because of his pretty prose without checking into the man and his background will probably not take the time, but you should !

You WILL hear much more over the next years about this connection and at some time it will become difficult to ignore !

This is the last sentence of the article......

"It’s not about the policies or the politics, and it’s certainly not about the principles. It’s about power, and it has been for a long time."

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MTY5ZTA5NmEwMGY4MTFhNDg2ZDg4NjU2MDkxOGYyYTE=&w=MA==

[Guest]

This is an excellent piece on the Alinsky affect on our President. I am sure that those who blindly voted for him because of his pretty prose without checking into the man and his background will probably not take the time, but you should !

You WILL hear much more over the next years about this connection and at some time it will become difficult to ignore !

This is the last sentence of the article......

"It’s not about the policies or the politics, and it’s certainly not about the principles. It’s about power, and it has been for a long time."

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MTY5ZTA5NmEwMGY4MTFhNDg2ZDg4NjU2MDkxOGYyYTE=&w=MA==

Trust me....I was NOT an Obama fan....but a really serious Hillary girl. I certainly did not blindly vote for him. What I should have voted for Sarah Pallin?.... She stands for just about everything I am against. So some times it just come down to the lesser of not my choices.

When Obama dissolves the Congress and runs up the socialist flag then I will believe it. That will probably happen right after Sean Hannitity finally get waterboarded for charity...as he said he would some time ago.

[Guest]

Trust me....I was NOT an Obama fan....but a really serious Hillary girl. I certainly did not blindly vote for him. What I should have voted for Sarah Pallin?.... She stands for just about everything I am against. So some times it just come down to the lesser of not my choices.

When Obama dissolves the Congress and runs up the socialist flag then I will believe it. That will probably happen right after Sean Hannitity finally get waterboarded for charity...as he said he would some time ago.


Your post is very confusing. Not sure what you are saying in regard to Hannity/waterboarding etc.

Not sure you read the piece...you allude to the "socialist flag", etc but totallymiss the point, and

If you didnt look over the so called "stimulus" bill which was cram packed and totally full of social programs, you sure missed something and of course the ownership of corporations and banks now....the small print in the stimulus bill that makes states accountable for insuring unemployment is kept at a certain level at THEIR expense....oh, and did you read how congress with no objection from the WH is insuring that ACORN can get millions (Can you actually defend that piece of legislation)....and of course ACORN is the one the White House wants to run our census CONTROLLED of course by the White House.

They criticize Bush, and there is much there, but then turn around and assume the same practices....it is all about Power...has nothing to do with the transparency stuff.

Oh, and you remark about Palin...I didnt know she ran for President. However, if McCain had won, do you think she could do worse than what VP Biden has done so far...he has made more public mistakes in a short time than most do in a complete term ! Glad you are so happy with him

Well, you can poke your fun all you want but this is even faster than I expected.

[Guest]

Trust me....I was NOT an Obama fan....but a really serious Hillary girl. I certainly did not blindly vote for him. What I should have voted for Sarah Pallin?.... She stands for just about everything I am against. So some times it just come down to the lesser of not my choices.

When Obama dissolves the Congress and runs up the socialist flag then I will believe it. That will probably happen right after Sean Hannitity finally get waterboarded for charity...as he said he would some time ago.

The candidate was McCain not Palin.

When you say that Sarah Palin "stands for just about everything I am against" it says a lot about you.

By your guidelines, by the time you believe what is said about Obama, it will be too late. I hope that you are paying attention. You may have to change your mind, quickly.

Yoda

A member of the loyal opposition

[Guest]

Your post is very confusing. Not sure what you are saying in regard to Hannity/waterboarding etc.

Not sure you read the piece...you allude to the "socialist flag", etc but totallymiss the point, and

If you didn't look over the so called "stimulus" bill which was cram packed and totally full of social programs, you sure missed something and of course the ownership of corporations and banks now....the small print in the stimulus bill that makes states accountable for insuring unemployment is kept at a certain level at THEIR expense....oh, and did you read how congress with no objection from the WH is insuring that ACORN can get millions (Can you actually defend that piece of legislation)....and of course ACORN is the one the White House wants to run our census CONTROLLED of course by the White House.

They criticize Bush, and there is much there, but then turn around and assume the same practices....it is all about Power...has nothing to do with the transparency stuff.

Oh, and you remark about Palin...I didn't know she ran for President. However, if McCain had won, do you think she could do worse than what VP Biden has done so far...he has made more public mistakes in a short time than most do in a complete term ! Glad you are so happy with him

Well, you can poke your fun all you want but this is even faster than I expected.

I don't believe that Obama is turning this country into a socialist state anymore than I believe that Sean Hannity will allow himself to be waterboarded even though he said he would. That takes care of that.

The stimulus bill is, unfortunately, a necessary evil caused by overspending for the past 8 years. These conservative lawmakers were larger spenders than the Dems.

McCain was to old for the office and Palin one heartbeat away. I usually don't care about the Veep. Biden wasn't the one I wanted...remember I am a Hillary girl. But Biden will NEVER be as bad as that Chicken Hawk Cheney.

Somebody has to prove to me that ACORN is getting millions from the stimulus package. For what? Remember that Texas is asking for 11 million dollars to rebuild the Governors mansion. Could either of these be a good thing?

Oh I am NOT happy with him...on many counts.

Don't Ask Don't Tell
Perhaps 35,000 troops in Iraq after 2011.

To name 2....but I would be far more upset with McCain.

I will look into the ACORN thing(s).....I really wouldn't trust one of the conservative sources..sorry about that.

[Guest]

to differentiate as to the political leanings or beliefs of a source. As in all good data and information accumulation anything biased is eliminated.

Unfortunately the resource of most Americans these days is their political bent (that's fine as long they know it is biased) and the media which is not only biased, but frought with mis-information. As told to me by the publisher of a very noted newspaper and television stations...they are obligated to be first and if it is accurate or true....all the better. And of course no one accepts information from politians or politico inspired.

So in doing TRUE research be prepared to be enlightened and possibly disappointed.

BTK

[Guest]

COLOGAL..."The stimulus bill is, unfortunately, a necessary evil caused by overspending for the past 8 years. These conservative lawmakers were larger spenders than the Dems."
__________________________________________________ ___________--

The stimulus bill was close to 50% nothing but social programs if you would take the time to read it, which by the way, NONE of your folks in congress did (READ THE BILL). Yes, I used "your" folks as you seem to like that separation...always using "one of yours" etc.

[Guest]

I don't believe that Obama is turning this country into a socialist state anymore than I believe that Sean Hannity will allow himself to be waterboarded even though he said he would. That takes care of that.

The stimulus bill is, unfortunately, a necessary evil caused by overspending for the past 8 years. These conservative lawmakers were larger spenders than the Dems.

McCain was to old for the office and Palin one heartbeat away. I usually don't care about the Veep. Biden wasn't the one I wanted...remember I am a Hillary girl. But Biden will NEVER be as bad as that Chicken Hawk Cheney.

Somebody has to prove to me that ACORN is getting millions from the stimulus package. For what? Remember that Texas is asking for 11 million dollars to rebuild the Governors mansion. Could either of these be a good thing?

Oh I am NOT happy with him...on many counts.

Don't Ask Don't Tell
Perhaps 35,000 troops in Iraq after 2011.

To name 2....but I would be far more upset with McCain.

I will look into the ACORN thing(s).....I really wouldn't trust one of the conservative sources..sorry about that.


The only suggestion I can make to you is to READ.....READ from any source, but try to balance it, anything you can about ACORN and Alinsky and as they relate to our President ! AND

Ask once again...did you read the article in the link I provided ? You never once alluded to it !

[Guest]

to differentiate as to the political leanings or beliefs of a source. As in all good data and information accumulation anything biased is eliminated.

Unfortunately the resource of most Americans these days is their political bent (that's fine as long they know it is biased) and the media which is not only biased, but frought with mis-information. As told to me by the publisher of a very noted newspaper and television stations...they are obligated to be first and if it is accurate or true....all the better. And of course no one accepts information from politians or politico inspired.

So in doing TRUE research be prepared to be enlightened and possibly disappointed.

BTK

In just a short search the ACORN thing only seems to be reported by websites with a conservative bent which then point to FOX News.

[Guest]

COLOGAL..."The stimulus bill is, unfortunately, a necessary evil caused by overspending for the past 8 years. These conservative lawmakers were larger spenders than the Dems."
__________________________________________________ ___________--

The stimulus bill was close to 50% nothing but social programs if you would take the time to read it, which by the way, NONE of your folks in congress did (READ THE BILL). Yes, I used "your" folks as you seem to like that separation...always using "one of yours" etc.

Bucco.... there was no evil intent in that statement. If one of my folks had undergone waterboarding and declared it torture I suspect your response would have gone something like this:

He/She is just a liberal who couldn't take it.

I don't like the stimulus package either but believe it had to be done.

[Guest]

In just a short search the ACORN thing only seems to be reported by websites with a conservative bent which then point to FOX News.



Did you read their history ?

Are you aware of and did you read the indictments against them in many states ?

Are you aware of the NYTIMES holding back info during the election about illegal funding ?

[Guest]

THEN,,,,


Read about their involvement in the mortgage crisis and the pressure they put on banks, etc to make those wonderful loans !

THEN...


Read about their relationship with congress and Barney Franks latest efforts to open the doors for money !

THEN...

Read about the banks who give them money; banks that we bailed out !

[Guest]

The only suggestion I can make to you is to READ.....READ from any source, but try to balance it, anything you can about ACORN and Alinsky and as they relate to our President ! AND

Ask once again...did you read the article in the link I provided ? You never once alluded to it !

I believe...I could probably find, I asked you if you would read a link to a Huffington Post. Your response was clearly in the negative.

Now that I have read your link I expect you to give the same respect to mine.

[Guest]

THEN...

Please read the entire article I posted on Alinsky !!

[Guest]

Keep reading.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/17/opinion/17pubed.html?_r=1

[Guest]

I believe...I could probably find, I asked you if you would read a link to a Huffington Post. Your response was clearly in the negative.

Now that I have read your link I expect you to give the same respect to mine.

I have actually read the Huffington post on Alinsky, and have read all the positives that you gain from it...for example....Hillary wrote her college thesis on him (BUT THAT WAS buried while in the WH...true story..wonder why)...how many of his points have been used by both sides (true)....of some good that this man actually did (true)
!

I have read both sides of the coin....heard from those who think he was a fine man, and I also read President Obama's autobiography (BOTH OF THEM) and a lot in the Chicago paper about him (BEFORE he was national)...his relationship with ACORN and others...his beliefs (before he became national)....his ability to use the Alinsky mantra succesfully in commnity organizing and actually teaching it. I have researched both sides of this story totally and the editorial pretty much captures the essence.

For your information, my sources are not all on one side. I am not what you think I am or as you refer to as "one of my people". I was not a supporter of the Republican ticket in 2008 and made that clear. I simply know what we have elected and as I said during the campaign...that election coupled with the congressional leadership we have right now is deadly !

[Guest]

THEN...

Please read the entire article I posted on Alinsky !!

I did read the entire post you sent. Am I happy with everything Obama is does.... That would be a NO. He clearly was not my first choice.

Am I happy with his Court choice...well it has to be better than the ones W appointed. I am center left. Or if you prefer a Reagan Democrat. I vote for did vote for Repubs this time, at the local level. I am a social liberal and a fiscal conservative. Although probably not as conservative as some. I'm big on fairness.

[Guest]

THEN,,,,


Read about their involvement in the mortgage crisis and the pressure they put on banks, etc to make those wonderful loans !

THEN...


Read about their relationship with congress and Barney Franks latest efforts to open the doors for money !

THEN...

Read about the banks who give them money; banks that we bailed out !

Look...the financial crisis was NOT caused by ACORN pressuring banks to give poor people loans. That is simply untrue. In large part it was due to greed and the deregulation of the banking industry. I just read an article about the 3rd wave of foreclosures, these are not subprime but brought on by layoffs.

Explain to me why it is ok for Wall Street to get their bonuses, by contract, but the UAW has to totally modify their contracts and give back pay and benefits. Why is it my company when my pay is tied to the company performance we didn't get raises this year but the managers got their bonus?

Let have a discussion about real issues.

[Guest]

Keep reading.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/17/opinion/17pubed.html?_r=1


I read and saw this:

The story involved allegations that Barack Obama’s campaign, in league with Acorn, a left-leaning community activist group, was guilty of technical violations of campaign finance law. Evidence supplied by the source could not be verified. Even if the story had panned out, it is hard to see how any editor could have regarded it as momentous enough to change an election in which the Republicans were saddled with an unpopular war and an economic meltdown.

If the evidence could not be verified they should not have run the story.

[Guest]

Somebody has to prove to me that ACORN is getting millions from the stimulus package. For what?

Au contraire mes amis, au contraire.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/may/21/michele-bachmann/bachmann-claims-acorn-has-access-85-billion-federa/

[Guest]

COLOGAL - I think the flag is up and it is definitely waving.

[Guest]

In just a short search the ACORN thing only seems to be reported by websites with a conservative bent which then point to FOX News.

Do you think that is because the liberal media has not heard of it?

Yoda

A member of the loyal opposition

[Guest]

COLOGAL - I think the flag is up and it is definitely waving.

Not on my side!

[Guest]

Au contraire mes amis, au contraire.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/may/21/michele-bachmann/bachmann-claims-acorn-has-access-85-billion-federa/


To my knowledge NOBODY has said they GOT funds. What has been said is that they are eligible to receive funds and if you read the legislation put forth by Barney Frank to allow those indicted to get funds to whom do you think that might be addressed ?

Also, they HAVE received funds from banks involved in the TARP bailout !

[Guest]

Look...the financial crisis was NOT caused by ACORN pressuring banks to give poor people loans. That is simply untrue. In large part it was due to greed and the deregulation of the banking industry. I just read an article about the 3rd wave of foreclosures, these are not subprime but brought on by layoffs.

Explain to me why it is ok for Wall Street to get their bonuses, by contract, but the UAW has to totally modify their contracts and give back pay and benefits. Why is it my company when my pay is tied to the company performance we didn't get raises this year but the managers got their bonus?

Let have a discussion about real issues.


I never said that the crisis was CAUSED by ACORN.(AND I never heard anyone on here or anywhere else say what you are saying)...I said they were very involved in pressuring banks to make those loans...now, that is a fact that is verifiable. Of course they did not cause it...they are an organization USED to advance causes of this sort..the fact that they pressured banks to make these loans is simply fact..not spin !

I am not sure why you bring up Wall St in a conversation about ACORN, except if you are going to discuss the bus trips they had to view the homes of those who worked there. This thread is about ACORN..not Wall St...of course everyone knows about the abuse but not sure how that justifies anything else !

I think ACORN is a REAL ISSUE....just explain to me why Barney Frank introduced the legislation he did ? WHO do you think he had in mind..allowing those under indictment to get funds ?

[Guest]

I never said that the crisis was CAUSED by ACORN.(AND I never heard anyone on here or anywhere else say what you are saying)...I said they were very involved in pressuring banks to make those loans...now, that is a fact that is verifiable. Of course they did not cause it...they are an organization USED to advance causes of this sort..the fact that they pressured banks to make these loans is simply fact..not spin !

I am not sure why you bring up Wall St in a conversation about ACORN, except if you are going to discuss the bus trips they had to view the homes of those who worked there. This thread is about ACORN..not Wall St...of course everyone knows about the abuse but not sure how that justifies anything else !

I think ACORN is a REAL ISSUE....just explain to me why Barney Frank introduced the legislation he did ? WHO do you think he had in mind..allowing those under indictment to get funds ?

Ok ACORN used pressure to get banks to make loans to poor people. For now I give on that point. So how many loans and what percentage effect did those loans have on the current home mortgage crisis? 500,000 loans? 1 million loans? Then tell me what effect did the totally untrue grade AAA rating on those loans bundles had?

Now do you think it is correct for the Wall Street guys to get a contractual bonus but the UWA has totally restructure the current contract. Its pretty much a yes or no answer.

[Guest]

Ok ACORN used pressure to get banks to make loans to poor people. For now I give on that point. So how many loans and what percentage effect did those loans have on the current home mortgage crisis? 500,000 loans? 1 million loans? Then tell me what effect did the totally untrue grade AAA rating on those loans bundles had?

Now do you think it is correct for the Wall Street guys to get a contractual bonus but the UWA has totally restructure the current contract. Its pretty much a yes or no answer.


#1. How many loans and what percentage ? I have no idea and you are still missing the point. It is the body of work and the mission of this group that is being discussed along with the Alinsky techniques being used. Where they the only bad guys in this situation...certainly not, but you cannot defend a group because of what another group has done.

#2. I am not qualified to give you an answer on your question about the "Wall St guys" and the UAW. The UAW as I understand it has not been a prince in the current negotiations and has been living pretty high on the hog.....unemployed but you still get paid if you show up and play cards all day...pretty good deal ! And as I understand it, the UAW will own part of the companies out in Detroit. No good guys but cannonizing the UAW I cant or wont do !

I respect your opinion but you simply will not open your eyes to what has happened in this country since January and what is happening. You seem to think I come at this from only one angle, and that is far from true. You remember the campaign even BEFORE Obama got the nomination I was saying the exact same thing...and predicting what would happen and it is. I am not anti Democrat or pro Republican...but I am AWARE that our new President was NEVER vetted for whatever reason and should have been. Had he been, perhaps your canidate H Clinton would have been the nominee.

I will predict in a few years you will be reading books bashing the current media for their handling of this past campaign. And it continues in the administration as all he has to do is talk pretty and we fall over ourselves EVEN if what he says is not true, the same as the previous administration or whatever...as long as he says it so pretty !

I have never attacked him personally and do not now. I simply vetted him myself and I have been pretty consistent in what I say and he has been pretty consistent in what he does. And it will continue ! His idealogy is just what I have been saying.....and others that you never will read in any MSM.

Remember Rev Wright ? Well, as a supporter of H Clinton..let me ask you...if something like that had come out about her....ie., TWENTYYEARS with someone who she called her mentor, etc...do you think that he simply saying very nicely...well, gee....that is not the same guy I counseled with or met with or whatever and I am simply saying goodbye. Do you think the media would have handled that situation had it been Clinton any differently ? Do you think if she were affliated with a group like ACORN it would have come out differently ? Would the NYTIMES had sat on that story ?

I am typing a lot of words but I know you take your positions seriously and that is great and you should hold onto what you believe....but I will also and I have seen not one thing to dissuade me but others (perhaps you also) have every excuse in the books no matter how much builds up.

Enough said....have a good evening !

[Guest]

Trust me....I was NOT an Obama fan....but a really serious Hillary girl. I certainly did not blindly vote for him. What I should have voted for Sarah Pallin?.... She stands for just about everything I am against. So some times it just come down to the lesser of not my choices.

When Obama dissolves the Congress and runs up the socialist flag then I will believe it. That will probably happen right after Sean Hannitity finally get waterboarded for charity...as he said he would some time ago.

I have read this whole thread and one thing stands out (actually quite a few) that I remembered after I took a little break.
Clologal's statement "She (Palin) stands for just about everything I am against"
Ms. if that statement is indeed true, I am sorry, but with good conscience, I don't think I could ever take or understand any more posts that you record here. Sure, she is not perfect (who is?) but you are against everything she stands for????
Unbelievable. I'm sorry moderator...I know I shouldn't have posted this but felt I had to. Feel free to delete my post and I will not harbor ill feelings.
As for Clologal...Maybe if we meet we could like each other as I do not know you personally. Friends should not talk politics if they want to keep good feelings. But, that statement about Mrs. Palin sure does say alot about someone's outlook on life, huh?:o
Keedy