Fross & Fross or Cebert Wealth

[long island linda]

We have relocated here this past summer and are looking for feedback on either of these investment firms. After searching previous posts most info is from 2013, we are looking for current information.
Thanks for your input

[villagetinker]

I cannot help you with these firms, I use Ameriprise, my investment person is a fiduciary, his compensation comes from a yearly payment, and NOT from investments. This eliminates the temptation to steer me to one investment over another one based on compensation from the investment.
Going forward, Trump has already started to disassemble many if not all of the safeguards that were created in the wake of the 2008 financial collapse, so make sure that whomever you choose, HIS YOUR BEST INTERESTS FIRST.
There was a prior thread that had an attachment that your investment person would sign indicating his independence from external compensation, if you do a search you should find it.
Hope this helps.

[NotGolfer]

We use Jeff Gruenke who used to be with Cebert but branched off on his own with 2 other guys. He's located on the corner of 441/27 and 466 in Lady Lake. Honest and reliable information....been with him since early 2009.

[Dan9871]

You might check with Francis Simms at Charles Schwab (352-430-3080) in Lake Sumter. Schwab has a number of investment firms that work through Schwab and most are fiduciaries. Also they have weekly talks typically presented by members of these firms. We found Francis very helpful in finding a firm to suit our needs.

[l2ridehd]

I cannot help you with these firms, I use Ameriprise, my investment person is a fiduciary, his compensation comes from a yearly payment, and NOT from investments. This eliminates the temptation to steer me to one investment over another one based on compensation from the investment.
Going forward, Trump has already started to disassemble many if not all of the safeguards that were created in the wake of the 2008 financial collapse, so make sure that whomever you choose, HIS YOUR BEST INTERESTS FIRST.
There was a prior thread that had an attachment that your investment person would sign indicating his independence from external compensation, if you do a search you should find it.
Hope this helps.

Please don't turn every financial question into a political discussion. The web site you showed supporting this position is so biased and unfactual that it is nothing more then a left wing political rag that shows every scare tactic possible.

As far as these two firms are concerned, they both charge high fee's when compared to the rest of the industry. And the rest of the industry charges to much. If you really need to use a financial advisor then find one that is fee only and not based on a % of your total invested funds. Find that agreement on here and ask anyone you hire to sign it. Most won't.

[villagetinker]

I did not intend to turn this political, sorry, just pointed out the current discussions. As for the reference to the attachment, I thought it was reasonable from an informational viewpoint, I would not necessarily use it. I was not recommending the firm, or at least I did not intend to.
You are correct, there will be lots of varied options on this subject.
Sorry if I have offended anyone, I will refrain from any further discussion on this topic.

[dewilson58]

I did not intend to turn this political, sorry, just pointed out the current discussions. As for the reference to the attachment, I thought it was reasonable from an informational viewpoint, I would not necessarily use it. I was not recommending the firm, or at least I did not intend to.
You are correct, there will be lots of varied options on this subject.
Sorry if I have offended anyone, I will refrain from any further discussion on this topic.

Saw Nothing political.

:wave:

[Villager Joyce]

I did not intend to turn this political, sorry, just pointed out the current discussions. As for the reference to the attachment, I thought it was reasonable from an informational viewpoint, I would not necessarily use it. I was not recommending the firm, or at least I did not intend to.
You are correct, there will be lots of varied options on this subject.
Sorry if I have offended anyone, I will refrain from any further discussion on this topic.

You are the first and many times only person to offer assistance. You have offered to go to a persons house. I was highly offended at the tone taken by the person who responded to your post. Regular readers know who is the good guy and who is not! YOU are tbe good guy.

[Boomer]

I want to write a post here about considering sources, but I don't have time right now and there is probably no point anyway......

When Thomas Jefferson said, "The only security of all is a free press," he never could have imagined the "press" that critical thinkers must wade through in today's world.

Not only must we consider the source but we darn well better consider what the source is considering.

I might finish this later, but probably not.....

But maybe have a look at what this behavioral economist, on the Forbes site, has to say.

Forbes Welcome (http://www.forbes.com/sites/hershshefrin/2017/02/05/danger-financial-deregulation-is-a-very-bad-idea/#3aea81da75cf)


And, btw, VT, I always like your posts.

[rivaridger1]

Please don't turn every financial question into a political discussion. The web site you showed supporting this position is so biased and unfactual that it is nothing more then a left wing political rag that shows every scare tactic possible.

As far as these two firms are concerned, they both charge high fee's when compared to the rest of the industry. And the rest of the industry charges to much. If you really need to use a financial advisor then find one that is fee only and not based on a % of your total invested funds. Find that agreement on here and ask anyone you hire to sign it. Most won't.

Village Tinker, your posts are important to all the people that look to TOTV for information. I am probably more " right wing " then the individual taking exception with your reply to the OP. Continue to post, no matter your thoughts or political preferences. Your contributions based on what I have seen over the last year provide everyone in The Villages with extremely valuable information. We are all adults and can easily deal with the occasional opinion that is at odds with ours.

[rhood]

Graunke Hentz

[Chatbrat]

Honestly why would any reasonable person pay a stranger a fee to gamble with their money with no guarantee. Its a sucker bet- subscribe to a couple of magazines read & learn--its not rocket science to lear how to make $$ in the mkts--don't be suckers

[784caroline]

Look everyones financial situation is different than mine and yours, but you really need to understand who brings what to the table. The individual advisors mentioned or even Vanguard or Fidelity do offer cheaper altertantives to Financial advisors such as Fross and Fross and Cebert. However who is now managing your money today and MORESO what would happen if something seriously happened to your current money manager (ie you or me).

With Fidelity or Vanguard you are only an account number to them, they realy do not know your personal background or family history. The local ADVISORS try to get to know you and your family......so When (not if) something happens to you or me your spouse has someone to go to that they have met in person and hopefully can trust. They may not be the cheapest but 1% on net assets is very reasonable for managed accounts.

There is something to say about having a local contact and dealing with a local firm that has the ability to support your family in times of an emergency. There comes a time where cost is not the only factor in making financial decisions...ask yourself is my better half prepared to manage this estate in case something would happen to me...its all part of planing for the unknown which we will all reach at one point.

[kaydee]

Jeff Gruenke / Hentz

[CassieInVa]

Well, I have used advisors and they moved my money around every year or so (purchasing mutual funds called churning and costing me fees) before I realized that on top of the 1% I paid yearly, there were hard to discover other fees/commissions that you just don't see on the statements. Amerprise Rep put me in a variable annuity that even when in cash, paid a minimum 3% interest. I finally figured out with a lot of research that I was netting less than 1%. Also, it was an IRA in a life insurance product which was a no no and they had a class action suit against them for that.

I'm now happily handling my own finances - mostly index funds, iBonds and CDs. It is one of my hobbies and I wish there was a club or group that wanted to meet regularly to discuss the basics of retirement related investing, best CD rates, withdrawal strategies, etc. Not so much individual stock picking - there is a club for that.

Can we organize something?

[Newbeginnings]

Fross & Fross manages our IRA's and find them to be very good, I have recommended several friends to them and everyone is very pleased. We have quarterly one on one meetings, they want to know there clients, and I don't find there fee's out of line compared to others, and we did check several other firms out before we settled on Fross & Fross.

[l2ridehd]

I'm now happily handling my own finances - mostly index funds, iBonds and CDs. It is one of my hobbies and I wish there was a club or group that wanted to meet regularly to discuss the basics of retirement related investing, best CD rates, withdrawal strategies, etc. Not so much individual stock picking - there is a club for that.

Can we organize something?

Good idea Cassie. I will help with that. There already is an online group that does a good job of doing exactly what you're doing. And they also have an annual face to face meeting. You may already follow it. www.boogleheads.org

[baileysdad]

Go with Fross, you can't go wrong. Been with them 8 years...classy guys..very smart !!!!

[ColdNoMore]

I did not intend to turn this political, sorry, just pointed out the current discussions. As for the reference to the attachment, I thought it was reasonable from an informational viewpoint, I would not necessarily use it. I was not recommending the firm, or at least I did not intend to.
You are correct, there will be lots of varied options on this subject.
Sorry if I have offended anyone, I will refrain from any further discussion on this topic.

Don't apologize for simply stating...and proving facts. :ho:


And as you stated, ALWAYS go with someone that is paid a flat fee and does not get a commission on an investment vehicle they recommend. :thumbup:


Way too much conflict of interest in doing that.

[Bonnevie]

Fross uses private REITs that lock your money up for years and years and pushes annuities.

[784caroline]

Fross uses private REITs that lock your money up for years and years and pushes annuities.

Are you a client of Fross and Fross??? If so and you do not want REITS and Annunities talk with them.....they will listen. If your not a client and your repeating hearsay, I have been with them for more than 5 years..and I have never had a REIT or an Annuity in the account. Yes they were discussed but we simply moved on to other subjects. Everyone's financial situation, risk tolerance and goals are different. They do offer REITs and Annuities but these would be for the more income oriented and risk adverse accounts.

[Villageswimmer]

Good idea Cassie. I will help with that. There already is an online group that does a good job of doing exactly what you're doing. And they also have an annual face to face meeting. You may already follow it. www.boogleheads.org

Noticed a typo...it is
Bogleheads Investing Advice and Info (http://Www.bogleheads.org)

Named for Vanguard founder Jack Bogle.

[CassieInVa]

Yes, very familiar with Bogleheads.com. Great information on low cost investing. If you are with a financial planner that doesn't charge fee based, you are paying a minimum of 1% per year on your balance (some charge 1.5% or more, so ASK!!), along with other commissions every time you buy a stock or mutual fund share. I was amazed as I had no clue because these fees never show on the statements, and even when you ask, they sometimes are not made clear. You never see where it is taken out, so you don't realize how much is missing.

This is a simplified example. Say you have $1,000,000 in retirement funds. Your rep charges 1%, which is $10,000 yearly. Plus commissions or loads on share/funds purchased. That is a minimum of $10,000 of your money yearly that is not invested or growing. If you are withdrawing 4% yearly for spending (4% of assets is common) then that $10,000 is a full 25% or 1/4th of your yearly income. This is why I learned to invest in stock index funds, inbounds, CDs, etc.

I realize some may need an advisor. But for me, it is a hobby/interest now.

Let's see if we can get enough interest t o start a group. Would be great also for any spouses who do not handle the money or investing currently, but wish to learn more.

[l2ridehd]

I agree Cassie. And thanks to Villageswimmer for making the correction to bogleheads reference.

I recently helped a friend who used an advisor who I will not name, but they didn't know their real cost. They had a little bit more, but I will use the $1,000,000 to keep it apples to apples. They were paying 1.5% annual management fee's plus trade fees and also an upcharge fee. That is where the broker sells them something like a bond the broker buys and resells but adds a bit to the price plus his trade fee. And that is a very common practise. So on the $1,000,000 they paid $15,000 plus trading fees of $3827 and upcharge fee's of over $7000. I could not get it exact but the total was just over $26000 a year. So 2.6% on $1,000,000. And their total return for 2016 was 6.37%.

I showed him how I was invested and we used Morningstar radar to get my total cost which was .011% or only $1,100 on the same $1,000,000 amount. And my return for 2016 was 8.42%. And I had taken significantly less risk then he did. We went back over the previous 7 years that he had data for and my returns were more every year. Not a lot, but still more with less risk.

Go look at the Yale University fund and see how they manage their money and the returns. They use almost 100% index funds.

[Chatbrat]

Gabelli Utility Trust (GUT)--currently paying 9.12% AND if you reinvest your dividends you get the additional shares @ a 5% discount below mkt--they pay dividends monthly compounded over 15% per annum--had this stock forever

[l2ridehd]

Gabelli Utility Trust (GUT)--currently paying 9.12% AND if you reinvest your dividends you get the additional shares @ a 5% discount below mkt--they pay dividends monthly compounded over 15% per annum--had this stock forever

And if you have owned it forever you're probably OK. But that is a closed end stock utility fund that is currently trading at a 46% premium to it's net asset value. In other words, you could buy the stocks the funds owns for 46% less than they are charging for them through that fund. I would consider any fund trading at that high of a premium a very high risk.

[biker1]

Vanguard will provide a financial planner for 0.3% of the money invested. We had a couple of conversations with one of the financial planners and was impressed although we haven't pulled the trigger on using them. I am comfortable doing it myself but if you want/need help they are worth considering. They will use Vanguard funds but that is a good thing.

Yes, very familiar with Bogleheads.com. Great information on low cost investing. If you are with a financial planner that doesn't charge fee based, you are paying a minimum of 1% per year on your balance (some charge 1.5% or more, so ASK!!), along with other commissions every time you buy a stock or mutual fund share. I was amazed as I had no clue because these fees never show on the statements, and even when you ask, they sometimes are not made clear. You never see where it is taken out, so you don't realize how much is missing.

This is a simplified example. Say you have $1,000,000 in retirement funds. Your rep charges 1%, which is $10,000 yearly. Plus commissions or loads on share/funds purchased. That is a minimum of $10,000 of your money yearly that is not invested or growing. If you are withdrawing 4% yearly for spending (4% of assets is common) then that $10,000 is a full 25% or 1/4th of your yearly income. This is why I learned to invest in stock index funds, inbounds, CDs, etc.

I realize some may need an advisor. But for me, it is a hobby/interest now.

Let's see if we can get enough interest t o start a group. Would be great also for any spouses who do not handle the money or investing currently, but wish to learn more.

[petsetc]

Spend a little time on paulmerriman dot com. Download and read his FREE books.
Explore The Motley Fool's Rule Your Retirement.

Even if you don't want to do it yourself, invest the time - otherwise you may be investing in someone else's retirement.

FWIW

[784caroline]

A fee of 1.5% is very high and unwarranted...especially if you are paying commissions and other fees on top of that. Look elsewhere for there are investment planners in our area who sit down with you that charge no more than 1% with no additional fees.

Again Fidelity, Vanguard and other big box investment firms may meet your immediate needs at a lower cost but this assumes you (and moreso your significant other) knows how to handle/invest money as well as having someone to discuss social security issues or RMDs from your 401 or IRA accounts. This stuff can get complicated.

A sad scenario would be you accumulated and managed over your lifetime a million dollar plus estate including retirement account(s) and then something happens and you no longer are around or have the ability to do so. Preparing for this eventually is part of estate planning.

[Chi-Town]

Anybody I know that uses Fross & Fross is very happy with their choice.

[Bonnevie]

Are you a client of Fross and Fross??? If so and you do not want REITS and Annunities talk with them.....they will listen. If your not a client and your repeating hearsay, I have been with them for more than 5 years..and I have never had a REIT or an Annuity in the account. Yes they were discussed but we simply moved on to other subjects. Everyone's financial situation, risk tolerance and goals are different. They do offer REITs and Annuities but these would be for the more income oriented and risk adverse accounts.

I was a client and they did not act as a fiduciary and gave me horrible advice. I trusted them and found out later exactly what they steered me too. They specifically tell you they will take all the worry away so you can enjoy your retirement. What they take is a fee on top of recommending things they get commissions on. Why would I go to someone I can't trust to be doing the right thing by me? I now manage my own again. But if you like them, good for you.

[BeetleBailey]

My wife and I went to several wealth management seminars over 13 years ago. After much thought and research, we decided to go with Thomas Fross. We are still with them today, and they have done very well with protecting & producing results with our portfolio. We highly recommend them. We have never been sorry.

[CassieInVa]

Many advisors are competent but most by law have no obligation to steer you to the right thing. They many times make recommendations based on what commission they will make. And if you don't really dig and research, you think you are paying them overall much less than you truly are.

I'm sure most of these companies are nice to their customers - they should be - they are getting a lot of your money. Even if your investments tank, they still get their cut.

[RickeyD]

If I were inclined to trust my investments to an adviser, which I don't, I would ask to see (documentation) what THEY were invested in and to invest mine into the same.

[thelegges]

I have handle our investments for 10 years. We do have an advisor but my money is still mine to choose. Any fees that I would have paid to someone goes to a higher risk, and money made goes back to my regular funds. I want to look into the online advice of bobblehead

[biker1]

This may not be a good idea as his/her investment goals may be considerably different from yours. Different goals mean different investments. Also, his/her's level of risk may be considerably different than yours.

If I were inclined to trust my investments to an adviser, which I don't, I would ask to see (documentation) what THEY were invested in and to invest mine into the same.

[ColdNoMore]

Many advisors are competent but most by law have no obligation to steer you to the right thing. They many times make recommendations based on what commission they will make. And if you don't really dig and research, you think you are paying them overall much less than you truly are.

I'm sure most of these companies are nice to their customers - they should be - they are getting a lot of your money. Even if your investments tank, they still get their cut.

Yep. :thumbup:


Being responsible of my own wealth management, also means that I don't have to spend oodles of my investment money sponsoring Polo Teams, paying for big billboards... and incessant advertising/mailings/free dinners. :shrug:

[Blessed2BNTV]

Yes, very familiar with Bogleheads.com. Great information on low cost investing. If you are with a financial planner that doesn't charge fee based, you are paying a minimum of 1% per year on your balance (some charge 1.5% or more, so ASK!!), along with other commissions every time you buy a stock or mutual fund share. I was amazed as I had no clue because these fees never show on the statements, and even when you ask, they sometimes are not made clear. You never see where it is taken out, so you don't realize how much is missing.

This is a simplified example. Say you have $1,000,000 in retirement funds. Your rep charges 1%, which is $10,000 yearly. Plus commissions or loads on share/funds purchased. That is a minimum of $10,000 of your money yearly that is not invested or growing. If you are withdrawing 4% yearly for spending (4% of assets is common) then that $10,000 is a full 25% or 1/4th of your yearly income. This is why I learned to invest in stock index funds, inbounds, CDs, etc.

I realize some may need an advisor. But for me, it is a hobby/interest now.

Let's see if we can get enough interest t o start a group. Would be great also for any spouses who do not handle the money or investing currently, but wish to learn more.

Just getting ready to retire and hubby and I would be interested in joining the group. PM with a time and place next month. Thanks!

[Bonnevie]

Yep. :thumbup:


Being responsible of my own wealth management, also means that I don't have to spend oodles of my investment money sponsoring Polo Teams, paying for big billboards... and incessant advertising/mailings/free dinners. :shrug:

Exactly! That was my thought when with Fross and Fross. I looked at the total amount they handle and figured 1% and no way could it pay for all those things. That's when I looked deeper into what they put me in and then got out as fast as I could. The REITS I'm stuck with for quite awhile. What I really was upset with is they pointedly sold me on being able to trust them so I could just enjoy my retirement and I believed them. But again, some are obviously very happy with their service so it's a matter of opinion.