Rules of Golf

[Bobbyb]

There seems to be different views on The Villages "Green top" environmental golf hazard areas. I've always taken a stoke penalty to drop outside the green top hazard line. A recent playing partner informed me any shot in an environmental area is a free drop outside the hazard. I can't find any ruling on this in the Rules of Golf. Are the green tops posts covered under local rules and if so what are they?

[golf2140]

Stroke must be taken.

[golfing eagles]

If your ball is INSIDE the hazard, you take a stroke penalty and drop (at point ball last crossed margin). If your ball is OUTSIDE the hazard but you would have to stand inside the environmental area to hit it, you get a free drop. Perhaps that is what led to the confusion.

[kcrazorbackfan]

If your ball is INSIDE the hazard, you take a stroke penalty and drop (at point ball last crossed margin). If your ball is OUTSIDE the hazard but you would have to stand inside the environmental area to hit it, you get a free drop. Perhaps that is what led to the confusion.

Great answer; I played with a person the other day at EP that seemed to think he had a free drop from the left side of #8 Killdeer. After a few moments of discussion, he took the penalty (but still continued to remain apprehensive about the ruling, until we made it to the clubhouse and got clarification).

[golfing eagles]

Great answer; I played with a person the other day at EP that seemed to think he had a free drop from the left side of #8 Killdeer. After a few moments of discussion, he took the penalty (but still continued to remain apprehensive about the ruling, until we made it to the clubhouse and got clarification).

The other way to look at it is that the environmental area is out of bounds, EXCEPT you don't have to take the full distance penalty, just to the point it last crossed the margin of the hazard, but you still have to take the stroke penalty. (The other difference being that you can stand out of bounds to hit a ball that is in bounds, but you can't stand in the environmental area, hence the free drop)

Now here is a question back. Local rules state you cannot hit a ball out of a FLOWER bed (not sawgrass), and get a free drop. It is clear you hit your ball into the flower bed, but some people say you can't go in and look for it. The rules state it is a lost ball if you can't identify it, but you can't identify it if you cannot look for it. Someone even said that if all 4 golfers agree it is in the flower bed, you get a free drop even if you don't find it. Last time I looked, there was no rules provision for rulings by the players by vote. So what is the correct procedure? There is no local rule on the card that prohibits looking for the ball in a flower bed, but common sense would dictate extra care be taken, which we all know will not happen, especially facing a 2 stroke penalty.

[ColdNoMore]

The other way to look at it is that the environmental area is out of bounds, EXCEPT you don't have to take the full distance penalty, just to the point it last crossed the margin of the hazard, but you still have to take the stroke penalty. (The other difference being that you can stand out of bounds to hit a ball that is in bounds, but you can't stand in the environmental area, hence the free drop)

Now here is a question back. Local rules state you cannot hit a ball out of a FLOWER bed (not sawgrass), and get a free drop. It is clear you hit your ball into the flower bed, but some people say you can't go in and look for it. The rules state it is a lost ball if you can't identify it, but you can't identify it if you cannot look for it. Someone even said that if all 4 golfers agree it is in the flower bed, you get a free drop even if you don't find it. Last time I looked, there was no rules provision for rulings by the players by vote. So what is the correct procedure? There is no local rule on the card that prohibits looking for the ball in a flower bed, but common sense would dictate extra care be taken, which we all know will not happen, especially facing a 2 stroke penalty.

The flower bed issue is obviously a 'local rule' and I have seen at some courses where they explain it on the card.

Paraphrasing, it says basically... "If a ball is resting, or thought to be resting, in a flower bed.....

I think the whole purpose is to keep people out of flower beds, regardless if it is to just identify the ball. I have always applied the basic premise of the lost/stolen rule as to 'verification'...in that if it is obvious that it's in the flower bed, a free drop is allowed.


Stolen or lost ball - A ball may be declared to have been stolen or lost in a hole made by a burrowing animal or in a drain if verified by others in your playing group. Drop a ball as close as possible to the area of disappearance, no closer to the hole. No Penalty.

You make a good point though and 'the Committee' should make it clear on how to proceed when your ball is in a flower bed.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Generally these "green top" areas are hazards. In my experience the only difference between environmentally protected hazards and all others is that you're not allowed to enter the hazard to retrieve your ball or play from the hazard. The penalty thus becomes mandatory.

[PennBF]

The original rules of golf when the game started were:
1. Play the course as it is, 2, Play the ball where it lies and 3. If you can't do either do what is fair. Now we have huge
books of rules, officials to rule on them, etc. but it is refreshing to know where all of this started.:bowdown:

[golfing eagles]

The flower bed issue is obviously a 'local rule' and I have seen at some courses where they explain it on the card.

Paraphrasing, it says basically... "If a ball is resting, or thought to be resting, in a flower bed.....

I think the whole purpose is to keep people out of flower beds, regardless if it is to just identify the ball. I have always applied the basic premise of the lost/stolen rule as to 'verification'...in that if it is obvious that it's in the flower bed, a free drop is allowed.


You make a good point though and 'the Committee' should make it clear on how to proceed when your ball is in a flower bed.

Do you know where the phrase "verified by others" comes from. I believe the phrasing of rule 25-1-c is "known or virtually certain". In which case, how is that decision reached? Sole discretion of the player, or group consensus? I also think it would be best if the committee put a sign in flower beds declaring them ground under repair with the additional instruction "do not enter"

[kcrazorbackfan]

On the subject of green top stakes, did anyone notice on the left side of the fairway of Belle Glade Tequesta #3 that after a large portion of the environmental hazard was mowed down, the tire tracks of the large number of carts that had driven out into it?

I talked to an Ambassador shortly after the mowing and he said that one of them was pretty much having to stay out on #3 to keep carts out of it.

I haven't played out there lately to see if it had grown back up.

[LouisB]

I never knew about that rule before reading this thread very interesting

[zonerboy]

Unless every one in the group is playing in an officially sanctioned tournament, or unless money or a prize is involved, then who the heck cares how another golfer scores their game?
Our neighborhood group allows a player one "mulligan" per round, for instance. Who cares? None of us is maintaining or establishing an official handicap, by the way.

[CWGUY]

Unless every one in the group is playing in an officially sanctioned tournament, or unless money or a prize is involved, then who the heck cares how another golfer scores their game?
Our neighborhood group allows a player one "mulligan" per round, for instance. Who cares? None of us is maintaining or establishing an official handicap, by the way.

:BigApplause: I take it you are not one of the Pros from Dover. And out to have a good time.:ho:

[PennBF]

You hit your shot into a sand trap. You pick the ball out put it back where you hit it and hit it again. And take a 1 stroke penalty. OK?:read:

[Regor]

You can NOT enter the green topped areas! You can not stand beyond the posts to hit your ball. If you can't hit it without entering the "Forbidden area" call it an unplayable lie, take a stroke and move the ball. Same as if your ball is close to a fence or wall that designates OB and you can't take a stance.

[golfing eagles]

You can NOT enter the green topped areas! You can not stand beyond the posts to hit your ball. If you can't hit it without entering the "Forbidden area" call it an unplayable lie, take a stroke and move the ball. Same as if your ball is close to a fence or wall that designates OB and you can't take a stance.

Or hit it left-handed:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[ajbrown]

You hit your shot into a sand trap. You pick the ball out put it back where you hit it and hit it again. And take a 1 stroke penalty. OK?:read:

By "put it back where you hit it", I assume you mean back where I hit the shot that got me into the trap?

Without looking, pretty sure I can do that by declaring an unplayable lie. Of course it is stroke and distance...

I used to know the rules and even enjoyed reading decisions, but not so much any longer...

[ColdNoMore]

Unless every one in the group is playing in an officially sanctioned tournament, or unless money or a prize is involved, then who the heck cares how another golfer scores their game?
Our neighborhood group allows a player one "mulligan" per round, for instance. Who cares? None of us is maintaining or establishing an official handicap, by the way.

It doesn't have to be just an "officially sanctioned tournament."

In the weekly groups I play with (championship courses) you must have a GHIN index, which is only accurate...by playing by the rules. :shrug: