Nationalized Health Care...when do we find out what it is?

[Guest]

There are several affected groups. To name just three:
the rich will be taxed to pay for "it"
those that don't have "it" (or ANY now)
those of us who will have lessor coverage because of "it"

"it" is being geared up to be RAMMED (or Rahmed) through via a partisan vote....which the Dems are all saying they really don't want to do.....BUT WILL!!

I would appeal those of you, like my wife and I (forget party affiliation) who will be destined to a reduced medical benefit from what Medicare/Medicaide/SocialSecurity/et al currently provide. To maintain the same coverage we currently have we will wind up buying supplemental insurance (just as most of us do to increase coverage above Medicare). The government will be dictating what doctors will and will not do with emphasis on the latter. Hospitals ditto. There will be an impact on doctor availability, for the basic coverage and services allowed.
If you think the waiting room is crowded now just think of the impact on existing facilities and offices when an additional 22,000,000 are included.

What we are witnessing is a personal objective going to be accomplished that will not fix the basic ills of a system that is already over stressed.
We will see wait times go up, increased costs for equal coverage will come out of our fixed incomes, quality of care will go down, the aged will be targeted for reduced care to allow for the younger who have longer to live and in the process the future debt of this country will be headed in a direction that has no bounds upon it.

There is daily discussion about how is it going to be paid for? What is the impact on the future debt of the country? Concern for a worthless dollar?
USA debt will over saturate non USA investors? And yet Obama and his lemmings are in full speed ahead mode.

I don't care whether you are a liberal, or Democrat, or Republican, leftist, right wing, black, yellow, brown or what ever.....you will be in the same boat.
You can't be so partisan you would let the government dictate how you will live and how much money you will have left (after paying for appropriate health care coverage). If there ever was a time to write your representative in Washington it is now.

If the Nationalization of our health care does get passed, then I will tell anybody, there is no hope for the future. Life as we know it will never, ever be as good as it is while YOU are reading this post. Our children and grandchildren and thereafter will bear the cross for years to come.

Another piece of world record shattering cost that will be little understood and passed. Add it to the prior bail outs and the pending Cap and tax debacles. Is there anything we the people will stand and be counted upon for?:shrug: Based on history and especially recent events, I am afraid not.:(

Even living in TV will not insulate us from the coming disaster.:bowdown:

btk

[Guest]

Here is a link that has some good facts & thoughts

To VK....Warning....THIS IS NOT A NEWS SOURCE
http://www.frugal-cafe.com/public_html/frugal-blog/frugal-cafe-blogzone/2009/07/14/billions-trillions-and-more-cbo-releases-appalling-dollar-amount-for-crappy-obamacare/


Also..Check out the CBO's (Congressional Budget Office) 10 year chart. See where the money starts kicking in.
http://spectator.org/blog/2009/07/14/10-year-time-frame-obscures-fu

[Guest]

Health care is a right bill?

Should then electricity be a right? Who wants to freeze to death if you can’t afford to pay the electric bill? Should gas be a right? Should owning a car be a right? How about a home? How about a job? Funny how the dems are all about rights now…. except the right to life of course.

Anyway, kiss jobs and the economy good bye if this passes.

The legislation calls for a 5.4 percent tax increase on individuals making more than $1 million a year, with a gradual tax beginning at $280,000 for individuals. Employers who don't provide coverage would be hit with a penalty equal to 8 percent of workers' wages, with an exemption for small businesses. Individuals who decline an offer of affordable coverage would pay 2.5 percent of their incomes as a penalty, up to the average cost of a health insurance plan.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jlMpJGn28kqCcgU-aGcYE_ZHW-ywD99EQPSG2

[Guest]

DON"T LIKE IT AND DON"T NEED IT
We are let to believe only the rich will be paying for this. Just wait till we find out we are all rich under their standards. Yes we will just tax those greedy rich fellas. Please give me a break. We are in trouble.:cus::cus::cus:

[Guest]

Senior citizens better wake up. They were very vocal about Bush but strangely silent about Obama. I can hardly read AARP anymore..they are so for Obama.
http://www.dickmorris.com/blog/2009/07/09/obama-will-repeal-medicare/

[Guest]

Obama is lying yet again to the American public to get through his socialist agenda. Even today he is saying that people who like the health care they have now can keep it. That is a lie. The National Health care bill will drive out the public sector providers. Also, he says you can keep your doctors. Baloney -- they will not be there. Many will just get out of the business or go to uber-expensive boutique doctoring (i.e., you pay $5-10K/year per family just to go the doctor) and hospital stays are out of pocket. So you're really forced into taking Nationalized healthcare (RATIONED) plan. If you are a senior like most of us here, that should be of much concern to you.

For those of you still working and getting healthcare from your place of business, if you get layed off, this National Health bill DOES NOT allow portability.

If you're not layed off, the companies will be dropping this benefit quicker than you can say, where'd I leave the remote!!

[Guest]

....Warning....THIS IS NOT A NEWS SOURCE...Correcto-mundo, Keedy. It is just opinion and not news.

But to address a question here..."when do we find out what it is?"...I think the answer is when Congress finally negotiates a healthcare program that is acceptable to both the House and the Senate and writes it down as HRxx or Sxx and gives everyone something to read.

All the criticisms we're reading about these days about what's in the proposed bill and what isn't IS pure opnion. It has to be because there is no bill yet.

There's nothing wrong with maintaining an active interest in what the members of Congress are negotiating and why. But how anyone can reach conclusions about what's in the bill when it doesn't yet exist is a little mind-boggling.
---------------------------------------
Just for the record, I don't want any more control over my healthcare benefits than is currently dictated by Medicare and the insurance companies--and that's plenty! Whether anyone cares to admit it, we get whatever level of care that one or both of those will agree to pay for. Your doctor or your hospital have little or nothing to say about it. When Medicare or the insurance company refuses to pay, your treatment or hospitalization stops!

I sure as heck don't want to pay any more for healthcare than I am now. However, I do believe that the huge number of Americans that don't have healthcare insurance should somehow be accommodated. I understand that will have to be paid for. But I would choose to pay for those increased benefits with increased taxation, NOT savings resulting from reduced or rationed benefits. But as I said above, I'm not getting my shorts in a knot about this issue until I can read the proposed bill and understand what's being proposed.

[Guest]

Correcto-mundo, Keedy. It is just opinion and not news.

But to address a question here..."when do we find out what it is?"...I think the answer is when Congress finally negotiates a healthcare program that is acceptable to both the House and the Senate and writes it down as HRxx or Sxx and gives everyone something to read.

All the criticisms we're reading about these days about what's in the proposed bill and what isn't IS pure opnion. It has to be because there is no bill yet.

There's nothing wrong with maintaining an active interest in what the members of Congress are negotiating and why. But how anyone can reach conclusions about what's in the bill when it doesn't yet exist is a little mind-boggling.
Well, correct me if I'm wrong...didn't congress just pass a bill without reading it????
People have to get involved and yes, speculate to they can write or communicate somehow with their representatives to let them know what the taxpayers expect, right?
Ahhhh what the heck...congress will just rubber stamp it if the Annointed One wants it, right?

[Guest]

...Senior citizens better wake up...Oh boy! Dick Morris--that's someone I'm really going to rely on for information about what the proposed healthcare bill is all about.

Yeah, right!

[Guest]

...Ahhhh what the heck...congress will just rubber stamp it if the Annointed One wants it, right?Stop me if I'm wrong, but has the President ever published a complete, proposed healthcare bill including all the details? There are many that are critical of the President because he hasn't done that, and is letting Congress negotiate the details of the bill. About all he's provided is a pretty broad outline of what he'd like to see in such legislation.

[Guest]

Well, correct me if I'm wrong...didn't congress just pass a bill without reading it????...Yes, they did. And it wasn't the first time that happened by a long shot. Another time that happened was when the Medicare prescription drug bill was passed. It was written by a large drug company lobbying firm and wasn't introduced for Congressional review until the morning of the final vote!

That incident by itself should be enough for us to decide to throw the 435 out and start over. If it happens again with healthcare legislation, maybe enough people will get p____d enough to make it happen.

In the meantime, there is absolutely nothing wrong with letting your elected reps know what parts of the proposed legislation being opined on are acceptable--or not acceptable--to you as a constituent.

[Guest]

Don't ever underestimate Dick Morris.


Related: Here in Massachusetts, they passed a mandatory health insurance bill.They tell you to go get insurance if you don't have it. You look around and decide that it is too expensive and I'll take my chance without it. It should be my right not to have insurance, right? WRONG..Massachusetts will fine you big bucks if you do not have proof of insurance. So, you pay the fine because although it steep...it is still cheaper then buying health insurance. After I paid all that money..I still have no health insurance. Great, huh?
My question is..where the hell in the constitution does it say I have to pay money for insurance I don't want????

[Guest]

...My question is..where the hell in the constitution does it say I have to pay money for insurance I don't want????Maybe in the same place where the words have created an expectation that a person must be treated in a hospital whether or not he/she has insurance or can even afford to pay for such treatment.

I'll tell you one thing for sure. If doctors and hospitals simply stopped treating a person(s) who either didn't have insurance or couldn't prove an ability ot pay for treatment, healthcare legislation would be moving along at warp speed. But of course that won't happen because if the doctors and hospitals acted that way, the lawyers would sue the living bejesus out of them.

[Guest]

Originally Posted by Keedy View Post
...My question is..where the hell in the constitution does it say I have to pay money for insurance I don't want????

Maybe in the same place where the words have created an expectation that a person must be treated in a hospital whether or not he/she has insurance or can even afford to pay for such treatment.

I'll tell you one thing for sure. If doctors and hospitals simply stopped treating a person(s) who either didn't have insurance or couldn't prove an ability ot pay for treatment, healthcare legislation would be moving along at warp speed. But of course that won't happen because if the doctors and hospitals acted that way, the lawyers would sue the living bejesus out of them.

Next thing you know, you will be required to get insurance before the state issues tags for your automobile.....no, wait.
Well, at least the mortgage company doesn't make it mandatory to have insurance on that new home you want to finance........they do??:a20:

[Guest]

Originally Posted by Keedy View Post
...My question is..where the hell in the constitution does it say I have to pay money for insurance I don't want????



Next thing you know, you will be required to get insurance before the state issues tags for your automobile.....no, wait.
Well, at least the mortgage company doesn't make it mandatory to have insurance on that new home you want to finance........they do??:a20:

Oh great...A human body is being compared to a car and a house.:yuck:

[Guest]

Originally Posted by Keedy View Post
...My question is..where the hell in the constitution does it say I have to pay money for insurance I don't want????



Next thing you know, you will be required to get insurance before the state issues tags for your automobile.....no, wait.
Well, at least the mortgage company doesn't make it mandatory to have insurance on that new home you want to finance........they do??:a20:

PLEASE explain this relationship that you are making from protecting an institution (bank,mortgage company) who has an investment they need to protect to health insurance ?

Thank you

[Guest]

PLEASE explain this relationship that you are making from protecting an institution (bank,mortgage company) who has an investment they need to protect to health insurance ?
Thank you

If that were totally the case, then wouldn't the bank or mortgage company be paying the insurance premiums?:shrug:

[Guest]

If that were totally the case, then wouldn't the bank or mortgage company be paying the insurance premiums?:shrug:

I dont follow !1

A bank or mortgage company give you hundreds of thousands of dollars with the SECURITY being the house, thus they require you insure it.

How does that relate to the government requiring me to insure myself and family ?

[Guest]

to make health insurance mandatory.

And that is my opinion.

I can't wait to see or hear the words for those who can't pay....another freebie!

Or illegal aliens....another freebie!

But good ol' middle America....retired America will be made to bend over once again.

I also want to see how much it is going to cost above the "standard insurance" to get to parity with what you have today and will lose.

Plus the trillions of $$$$ we don't have.

Am I the only one who smells something rotten here?

Oh I also can't wait to see how the abuse of today's system will not happen in the new one...:1rotfl:

btk

[Guest]

to make health insurance mandatory.

And that is my opinion.

I can't wait to see or hear the words for those who can't pay....another freebie!

Or illegal aliens....another freebie!

But good ol' middle America....retired America will be made to bend over once again.

I also want to see how much it is going to cost above the "standard insurance" to get to parity with what you have today and will lose.

Plus the trillions of $$$$ we don't have.

Am I the only one who smells something rotten here?

Oh I also can't wait to see how the abuse of today's system will not happen in the new one...:1rotfl:

btk

People in Massachusetts are actively selling their homes to get away from this madness. This has really bothered my wife. I am well aware of the trials and tribulations of not having insurance...but I want the option to have or not have insurance. Nanny state want to dictate how and what you eat drink and smoke. What will be the next villain? Sugar...Trans fats...obesity.. red meat.....From Crib to Coffin...nanny state...

Years from now they will cap and trade your body fat...Yea...Yup..your too fat..not healthy..gonna cap it and tax you for every pound over your ideal weight....watch your diet...cap and tax your french fries...you will have to eat salads for 2 weeks to compensate.....:crap2:

[Guest]

It is official. LOML called Senator Ted "The Swimmer" Kennedy and a spokesperson said that the senators and congressmen will fall under the same health care as everyone. She said he was very arrogant. Gee, I thought I read that they didn't fall under the same plan. The swimmer wouldn't lie would he?

[Guest]

Oh boy! Dick Morris--that's someone I'm really going to rely on for information about what the proposed healthcare bill is all about.

Yeah, right!When Dick Morris speaks.... I listen. It appears a LOT of others do as well.... check the NYT bestseller list.

[Guest]

Am I understanding the House version correctly...

It will increase the coverage with Medicaid....low income folks...

AND

Reduce the spending on Medicaire folks...me, for example !

I do not want to overreact since there is no law and this is a proposal, but I planned my retirement on having medicaire as it is for years. I worked hard and used this 40 year old coverage as an ingredient in this planning.

Now, my coverage will drop ? And those who, and I dont want to sound unsympathetic, may not have planned will pick up more coverage ?

How far off am I ?

[Guest]

Am I understanding the House version correctly...

It will increase the coverage with Medicaid....low income folks...

AND

Reduce the spending on Medicaire folks...me, for example !

I do not want to overreact since there is no law and this is a proposal, but I planned my retirement on having medicaire as it is for years. I worked hard and used this 40 year old coverage as an ingredient in this planning.

Now, my coverage will drop ? And those who, and I dont want to sound unsympathetic, may not have planned will pick up more coverage ?

How far off am I ?The man who (sadly) was elected president promised a "redistribution of wealth"... this also seems to include that which was previously promised for which you, I and many worked our entire lives for. Who would have EVER thought such catastrophic (thank you Dick Morris) social restructuring could occur in 6 months:cus:

[Guest]

When Dick Morris speaks.... I listen. It appears a LOT of others do as well.... check the NYT bestseller list.
I started his book a few days ago and it is impressive. Tons of facts, charts and projections. It is also written in a language that you can understand as opposed to language to impress pseudo intellectuals.

[Guest]

When Dick Morris speaks.... I listen. It appears a LOT of others do as well.... check the NYT bestseller list.

rshoffer...as usual, you are ahead of the curve. The liberals prefer Alinsky to Morris, Marx to Levin, and they rant against any other author that questions the foundation of their belief in big government, socialism and totalitarianism. Sometimes they will hint that their really conservatives but didn't like Bush to lull you into dropping your guard. Kinda like wolves in sheep's clothing.

For those liberals open minded enough and courageous enough to actually stimulate views beyond your party line.......Liberty and Tyranny by Mark Levin....and if you have time Men in Black, How the Supreme Court is destroying America by Mark Levin. Rules for Radicals by Sol Alinsky for eye opening contrast and an ironic affirmation of Levin's published works.

Keedy....should I be looking out for those black helicopters? Wait.....men in dark suits with sunglasses are knocking on my door...........

[Guest]

rshoffer...as usual, you are ahead of the curve. The liberals prefer Alinsky to Morris, Marx to Levin, and they rant against any other author that questions the foundation of their belief in big government, socialism and totalitarianism. Sometimes they will hint that their really conservatives but didn't like Bush to lull you into dropping your guard. Kinda like wolves in sheep's clothing.

For those liberals open minded enough and courageous enough to actually stimulate views beyond your party line.......Liberty and Tyranny by Mark Levin....and if you have time Men in Black, How the Supreme Court is destroying America by Mark Levin. Rules for Radicals by Sol Alinsky for eye opening contrast and an ironic affirmation of Levin's published works.

Keedy....should I be looking out for those black helicopters? Wait.....men in dark suits with sunglasses are knocking on my door...........

:a20: Liberty and Tyranny is heavy but good. I really recommend Morris's new book, "CATASTROPHE...and how to Fight Back" He even lists the TARP recipients...15 pages worth. I think I hear a helicopter ( They are spraying the cranberry bog in my back yard) LOL

[Guest]

rshoffer...as usual, you are ahead of the curve. The liberals prefer Alinsky to Morris, Marx to Levin, and they rant against any other author that questions the foundation of their belief in big government, socialism and totalitarianism. Sometimes they will hint that their really conservatives but didn't like Bush to lull you into dropping your guard. Kinda like wolves in sheep's clothing.

For those liberals open minded enough and courageous enough to actually stimulate views beyond your party line.......Liberty and Tyranny by Mark Levin....and if you have time Men in Black, How the Supreme Court is destroying America by Mark Levin. Rules for Radicals by Sol Alinsky for eye opening contrast and an ironic affirmation of Levin's published works.

Keedy....should I be looking out for those black helicopters? Wait.....men in dark suits with sunglasses are knocking on my door...........Actually it's Morris who is ahead of the curve. Remember, at one time he worked for the Clintons. To this day his position is that Obama did not beat McCain to become POTUS.... He beat Hillary. He is a captivating political analyst.
nothing tops the duo of Dick Morris and Dennis Miller tag teaming each other.

[Guest]

rshoffer...as usual, you are ahead of the curve. The liberals prefer Alinsky to Morris, Marx to Levin, and they rant against any other author that questions the foundation of their belief in big government, socialism and totalitarianism. Sometimes they will hint that their really conservatives but didn't like Bush to lull you into dropping your guard. Kinda like wolves in sheep's clothing.

For those liberals open minded enough and courageous enough to actually stimulate views beyond your party line.......Liberty and Tyranny by Mark Levin....and if you have time Men in Black, How the Supreme Court is destroying America by Mark Levin. Rules for Radicals by Sol Alinsky for eye opening contrast and an ironic affirmation of Levin's published works.

Keedy....should I be looking out for those black helicopters? Wait.....men in dark suits with sunglasses are knocking on my door...........

Be very careful.....I have been mentioning Alinsky for over a year on here and have been told by a few they are tired of me continuing that theme.

[Guest]

Be very careful.....I have been mentioning Alinsky for over a year on here and have been told by a few they are tired of me continuing that theme.

Yea, they are probably the Palin-Bush bashers.:beer3:

[Guest]

an interest in anybody that will give it 30 seconds or more. The benefits we over 65 currently have will not remain the same. I don't know that for sure, but I would bet I am correct regarding when/if the plan is approved it will be one size fits all and I am sure they are not going to give the additional 20,000,000 not currently insured what we have today. And I would seriously doubt there will be different plans for different folks....how unfair would that be:confused:.

One the redistribution is accomplished you will have less coverage. I am also sure they will have plans A-Z available ala carte for a price so you can get your coverage back to what you were used to having.

This is only one very small aspect of negativity embedded in this plan. The standard plan will also spell out treatments allowed (I bet) as well as what you can go see the doctor about and also tell you which doctors you are entitled to visit....and when.

No change in the current abuses to the system.

How about those with small businesses? The owner will have to make the new insurance available to it's employees....and the owner will foot 72% of the cost!!!!! How would you like to be a comfortable small business owner today contmplating theis significant increase in operating expense? There go some businesses and there go the jobs with them.

Or how about the fact the insurance is mandatory. You will have to prove you have coverage. And if one does not will be subject to a fine.

And of course the trillion $ price tag.

The raising of taxes out in time for 10 years.

Not to even mention it is so complicated it will be totally uncontrollable.

It was announced today by some study group, the nationalization of health care will push the economy in the hole so deep it will take generations to recover.

And for kickers....not only does the likes of Obama and Pelosi not care about the impacts....they want it done in two weeks. The objective is to get it in while his ratings are still reasonable (and falling).

The cap and tax was one ball around the left ankle and the health care is a ball around the other ankle of the economy and we the people before they throw us in the pool and swim laps!!!!!

Maybe.....maybe....the silent majority will start to get the idea this is going to affect them and they better do something about it.

This is like the plague it will affect you regardless your party affiliation.

Now does anybody have any good reasons to support this ram job?

btk

[Guest]

an interest in anybody that will give it 30 seconds or more. The benefits we over 65 currently have will not remain the same. I don't know that for sure, but I would bet I am correct regarding when/if the plan is approved it will be one size fits all and I am sure they are not going to give the additional 20,000,000 not currently insured what we have today. And I would seriously doubt there will be different plans for different folks....how unfair would that be:confused:.

One the redistribution is accomplished you will have less coverage. I am also sure they will have plans A-Z available ala carte for a price so you can get your coverage back to what you were used to having.

This is only one very small aspect of negativity embedded in this plan. The standard plan will also spell out treatments allowed (I bet) as well as what you can go see the doctor about and also tell you which doctors you are entitled to visit....and when.

No change in the current abuses to the system.

How about those with small businesses? The owner will have to make the new insurance available to it's employees....and the owner will foot 72% of the cost!!!!! How would you like to be a comfortable small business owner today contmplating theis significant increase in operating expense? There go some businesses and there go the jobs with them.

Or how about the fact the insurance is mandatory. You will have to prove you have coverage. And if one does not will be subject to a fine.

And of course the trillion $ price tag.

The raising of taxes out in time for 10 years.

Not to even mention it is so complicated it will be totally uncontrollable.

It was announced today by some study group, the nationalization of health care will push the economy in the hole so deep it will take generations to recover.

And for kickers....not only does the likes of Obama and Pelosi not care about the impacts....they want it done in two weeks. The objective is to get it in while his ratings are still reasonable (and falling).

The cap and tax was one ball around the left ankle and the health care is a ball around the other ankle of the economy and we the people before they throw us in the pool and swim laps!!!!!

Maybe.....maybe....the silent majority will start to get the idea this is going to affect them and they better do something about it.

This is like the plague it will affect you regardless your party affiliation.

Now does anybody have any good reasons to support this ram job?

btk

I just read a post where my name was mentioned as always criticizing the President...I responded (probably not well) but what is going on with those who seem to support him. Can they not see, what even the Democrats in congress are seeing.

If you are reading this board you are either of age or getting close enough to worry about your insurance which is being ripped away while you golf !

And for such a HUGE deal for this country they want to just get it done...no discussions...lets get it done !

You are correct BTK..someday after the 18th hole you will find that while you played your insurance changed...and the re distribution continues. There appears to be some element of invincibility around here !

[Guest]

And for kickers....not only does the likes of Obama and Pelosi not care about the impacts....they want it done in two weeks. The objective is to get it in while his ratings are still reasonable (and falling).

The cap and tax was one ball around the left ankle and the health care is a ball around the other ankle of the economy and we the people before they throw us in the pool and swim laps!!!!!

There is a theory going around that congress is trying to ram this down our throats while Obama's ratings are still respectable. With his ratings fallen like a lead balloon, two weeks could seem like a lifetime for the Annointed one.

[Guest]

:cus:

If the Obama government run health plan gets passed we will all
be paying a lot more for less coverage. We can kiss our medicare
advantage plans good-by with there $0 to $20 monthly premiums
The Dems have said they can save money by not subsidizing these
plans so they can use that money to bring down the cost of what they
are coming up with.

[Guest]

:cus:

If the Obama government run health plan gets passed we will all
be paying a lot more for less coverage. We can kiss our medicare
advantage plans good-by with there $0 to $20 monthly premiums
The Dems have said they can save money by not subsidizing these
plans so they can use that money to bring down the cost of what they
are coming up with.


HAS anyone in congress or the WH been clear on what the change in medicaire will be other than "using" it to save money ???