Firefighters

[fw102807]

I am very disturbed by the opposition to pay increases to the firefighters. People see nothing wrong with paying some fool who can throw a ball around millions of dollars but do not want to pay someone who may save their life.
How much money do you waste on designer items or tickets to sporting events or even expensive cars but you refuse to pay a few more dollars to pay the first responders? The people who come day and night when you have a medical emergency or are in an accident, or set your house on fire or have to respond to a shooting or bombing. Really people?

[stan the man]

I totally agree ..

[Villager Joyce]

I agree, but....what are your plans for correcting this AND who are you angry at? I didn't buy luxury items instead of paying more money to the firefighters.

[fw102807]

I agree, but....what are your plans for correcting this AND who are you angry at? I didn't buy luxury items instead of paying more money to the firefighters.

I am angry at the people who are opposed to increasing their wages to a decent level and who do not appreciate the sacrifices they make. People think all they do is put out fires and do not fully understand how hard the job really is.

[Villager Joyce]

I am angry at the people who are opposed to increasing their wages to a decent level and who do not appreciate the sacrifices they make. People think all they do is put out fires and do not fully understand how hard the job really is.

First question still unanswered: what are you going to do about it?

Second question, part two: who are tbe people who are opposed to increasing wages and who are tbe people who don't appreciate their sacrifices?

We are on the same side. I just think ranting ugliness on TOTV does NOTHNG to correct the situation.

[skip0358]

The Union President has asked Villagers to show up at Lake Miona on March 7 @10 AM in the Reliance Room. There's a meeting about the raises

[Villager Joyce]

The Union President has asked Villagers to show up at Lake Miona on March 7 @10 AM in the Reliance Room. There's a meeting about the raises

Thanks. Will be there. How would we know this if you hadn't informed us?

[skip0358]

I believe it was the other online news there was an article in there.

[fw102807]

The Union President has asked Villagers to show up at Lake Miona on March 7 @10 AM in the Reliance Room. There's a meeting about the raises

Yes skip0358, thank you for bringing it up. I hope that people will go and show their support.

[graciegirl]

First question still unanswered: what are you going to do about it?

Second question, part two: who are tbe people who are opposed to increasing wages and who are tbe people who don't appreciate their sacrifices?

We are on the same side. I just think ranting ugliness on TOTV does NOTHNG to correct the situation.

Well SAID Joyce. As usual!!


I am guessing this poster is a fire fighter???

Sir/Madam. Just so you will know, I am tight as a drum but I always vote for EMS and first responders and school levies. Don't say stuff like that to us. We are nice people.

[TheDude]

This is something that I will be hammered for and to be honest, there is no amount I wouldn't pay a firefighter or any other life saver up until I can't do it.

The OP brought up something about ballplayers and millions of dollars. In 1525 they would be court jesters, but they found a way.

So I ask. What is the $ amount to pay them? Everyone will say give them as much as possible, but what is possible? I don't know how to ask the question? No one here will say 'pay them a million dollars' then actually put their taxes at 80% of their take home income. What is the right number?

And again, just playing devil's advocate (I know, bad). Heck, I don't know what they make, in NYC they start at 40K and in 5 years got to 100K.

What is the increase they want?

And please don't hammer me for asking the question that many are thinking.

[Reiver]

The National median annual Fire Fighter salary is $44,573, as of January 30, 2017, with a range usually between $33,430-$55,717.

[fw102807]

They hope to see starting pay for EMTs raised to $40,000 from $33,600 per year. The firefighters would also like to see the starting salary for a paramedic increased to $50,000 and a starting lieutenant’s pay raised to $57,500.

I don't know about any of you but I made more money that this sitting in front of a computer so I do not think it is a lot for someone who does what they do.

[tom g]

What would you suggest . Grace

[ColdNoMore]

The salaries paid to firefighters, police, teachers, the military and others that provide a great public service....have always been ridiculously low in my opinion.

The problem of course, is that wages are pretty much driven by what it takes...to get qualified people to fill those positions.

Comparing professional athletes and entertainers, with these jobs...just isn't realistic.

Team owners don't want to pay any more than they need to either, but will do it based on what they think they have to shell out to fill the seats.

And therein lies the big problem.

Athletes/entertainers are paid on what they can make their owners (ROI), whereas dedicated public servants are considered a 'necessary evil'...by those who want their taxes to stay low.

Is it fair that most plumbers make more than a cop or firefighter?

Not in my book...but yet they do. :shrug:

[fw102807]

I feel that being of a certain age where I have a good chance that I will someday need their services I would want to have the best trained and most qualified people doing the job.

They rode such a wave of gratitude after 911 and then people just promptly moved on and forgot. People think that things like that can't happen in TV but that is being very naive. We very nearly had a school shooting here.

[skip0358]

Would just like to say in checking my Fire Tax on the Tax Bill they're very cheap here. I served in a Volunteer Department up North for 42 years and my taxes were almost 10 times higher then here. I do believe they deserve a raise in both salary & pension. JMO I know I'm going to get some backlash but so be it. Loosing trained Fire & EMS personnel is not good.

[graciegirl]

What would you suggest . Grace

I dunno Tom.

By the way, Glad to meet you. Are you new here to The Villages, or just to this forum? I see that you are 36 so I am guessing you are a firefighter or EMS. Thank you very much for your service.

In answer to your question, I will wait and see what happens and then decide. As I stated earlier, in my lifetime, I have voted heavily for School Levies and for fair wages for Fire Fighters and EMS.

I am also tight as a drum in my personal use of money. I guess you would call me a fiscal conservative, or careful, VERY careful, with money.

[blueash]

I think that public servants deserve a good income. However comparing the salaries and benefits of a Villages' firefighter to the national average is wrong. The comparison needs to be made to a person in a similar sized community with similar risk pattern.

A firefighter in NYC is tasked with a much more dangerous job. High rise old buildings, freezing weather, shootings, toxic chemicals, heavy industry and a much higher cost of living. The overwhelming majority of buildings here are single story, no basements into which a structure might collapse, a cooperative citizenry, modern buildings up to code, no realistic expectation of getting shot at or dealing with daily exposures to HIV, Hepatitis B, TB, heroin overdoses and the other common events in a big city. How many fires does the Villages experience in a year? Very few. I suspect most Villages' firefighters don't average one significant fire run a year. Could be wrong.

It is important that our emergency services be competent and compassionate but in all honesty the intensity of services required here is lower than most other places and there really is nothing wrong with younger professionals gaining experience in this low intensity environment then if they wish moving on to more challenging professional environments with appropriately higher benefits. There is a problem if our safety personnel are going from our situation to a similar situation and getting better pay and benefits. I don't know if that is in fact happening.

[fw102807]

I would say the majority of the calls here are for medical and accidents but that does not mean we should be ok with a newbie. This is the difference between living and dying. Do you want to be practice for a trainee?

[fw102807]

To add another perspective the 33000 salary of the EMTs is 15.00 an hour which is the amount people are fighting to get established as minimum wage.

[golf2140]

To add another perspective the 33000 salary of the EMTs is 15.00 an hour which is the amount people are fighting to get established as minimum wage.

Let's see. Flipping a burger, or saving a life !!!!!

[Barefoot]

I am angry at the people who are opposed to increasing their wages to a decent level and who do not appreciate the sacrifices they make. People think all they do is put out fires and do not fully understand how hard the job really is.
L I K E.

My husband is a retired firefighter with 33 years on the job.
They see some awful stuff in their line of work, as do police officers.

[fw102807]

People have no idea. They think they just sit around and wait for fires. Pulling people out of car wrecks is brutal, especially children.

[graciegirl]

People have no idea. They think they just sit around and wait for fires. Pulling people out of car wrecks is brutal, especially children.

You underestimate the group of us. Many are in their seventies and older and we have seen a LOT of LIFE. You are singin' to the choir, kiddo. We are on your side. BUT........

I believe to sell anything you should never criticize, condemn or complain.

There has been some good information represented on this thread, particularly about national comparisons and state comparisons for pay. It is true that nothing can compensate for the brave and hard things you do.

What do you think is a fair salary?

[fw102807]

You underestimate the group of us. Many are in their seventies and older and we have seen a LOT of LIFE. You are singin' to the choir, kiddo. We are on your side. BUT........

I believe to sell anything you should never criticize, condemn or complain.

There has been some good information represented on this thread, particularly about national comparisons and state comparisons for pay. It is true that nothing can compensate for the brave and hard things you do.

What do you think is a fair salary?

I am not criticizing the people who agree with this, I am criticizing the ones who think that just because we are in the Villages and do not have a lot of fires we do not need experienced first responders. I think what they are asking for is not unreasonable 40000 a year is only 19.00 an hour and 57000 is only 27.00 an hour. If I am in an accident or have a medical emergency I want highly experienced people tending to me not people who are doing it for the first time while they learn.

[Reiver]

You can learn a lot about the department from the reports on their website:
Village Community Development Districts (http://www.districtgov.org/PDFView/PDFView.aspx?path=/departments/Public-Safety/AnnualReport2013.pdf&ql=publicsafety)

[fw102807]

You can learn a lot about the department from the reports on their website:
Village Community Development Districts (http://www.districtgov.org/PDFView/PDFView.aspx?path=/departments/Public-Safety/AnnualReport2013.pdf&ql=publicsafety)

Excellent suggestion.

[Chatbrat]

I lived in NJ, 90% of NJ fire depts are vol. , in the depts I belonged to we had icons on industry as members Wiechert Realty and Mennen ( yes the under arm people) as members--it was all about comaderie & community service.

[dirtbanker]

To add another perspective the 33000 salary of the EMTs is 15.00 an hour which is the amount people are fighting to get established as minimum wage.
I would consider that comparing apples to oranges.

Lets be fair, minimum wage jobs don't pay a guy wages while he sleeps, shops, or joy rides around in expensive equipment.

Who is good at math on here??

EMTs raised to $40,000 from $33,600 per year...is 20% increase! That is an awfully big increase compared to the
Forbes forecasted "cost of living adjustment" of 3% for 2017. (COLA for 2016 was zilch)


The firefighters would also like to see the starting salary for a paramedic increased to $50,000 and a starting lieutenant’s pay raised to $57,500...What are the current salaries for these positions?

[fw102807]

I would consider that comparing apples to oranges.

Lets be fair, minimum wage jobs don't pay a guy wages while he sleeps, shops, or joy rides around in expensive equipment.

Who is good at math on here??

EMTs raised to $40,000 from $33,600 per year...is 20% increase! That is an awfully big increase compared to the
Forbes forecasted "cost of living adjustment" of 3% for 2017. (COLA for 2016 was zilch)


The firefighters would also like to see the starting salary for a paramedic increased to $50,000 and a starting lieutenant’s pay raised to $57,500...What are the current salaries for these positions?

They are frequently woken up in the middle of the night which wreaks havoc with on their systems. The only shopping that I know of is to a fast food place or supermarket to buy food. Joy rides were to check hydrants or smoke alarms or service calls. They also work weekends and holidays. My husband is a retired FF so I know that this is misinformation.

If you lived on a salary of 33000 a year it was many years ago and probably did not involve life or death situations. Personally I made much more than this to sit in front of a computer.

[JoMar]

I haven't seen any information on what the impact on us would be if the raises would be put into effect. Has there been any information on what the total amount of an increase would be for The Villages? At 50,000 homes would an increease of $10.00 or $20.00 per house per year cover it? Seems like a small amount of money per household considering how valuable these folks are to our lives.

[dirtbanker]

They are frequently woken up in the middle of the night which wreaks havoc with on their systems. The only shopping that I know of is to a fast food place or supermarket to buy food. Joy rides were to check hydrants or smoke alarms or service calls. They also work weekends and holidays. My husband is a retired FF so I know that this is misinformation.

If you lived on a salary of 33000 a year it was many years ago and probably did not involve life or death situations. Personally I made much more than this to sit in front of a computer.

A solution to the havoc wreaked on their system would be to abolish the current practice of working 24 on and 48 off. They could go to 3 shifts, and therefore nobody is getting paid while they sleep and nobody is being woke up.

You must have FORGOT about the joy rides to Home Depot, Walmart, and similar places. I have personally witnessed them park the fire truck (the piece of expensive equipment that has a long lead time if it is damaged in an accident) in the parking lot and wander around the store wasting time. Go ahead and claim they are there on official business, and that is why they are looking at car washing supplies...

People in retail, utilities, and others work weekends and holidays...they would love a 20% pay increase too!

When my salary was $33K a year I was not getting paid to sleep, shop, joy ride in expensive equipment, nor sit in front of a computer.

20% pay increase in one year is a ridiculous amount to ask for!

[Paper1]

I think the concern or dialog should also include the legacy costs as it should with all public sector employee salaries. The Villages is one of the richest communities in the US where many cities and states are cutting back on services and infrastructure spending because of promises made to public sector employees they are struggling to meet. The public sector often pays retirement benefits for 30 to 40 years or more. What is the real cost of a $10,000 increase in salary.

[fw102807]

A solution to the havoc wreaked on their system would be to abolish the current practice of working 24 on and 48 off. They could go to 3 shifts, and therefore nobody is getting paid while they sleep and nobody is being woke up.

You must have FORGOT about the joy rides to Home Depot, Walmart, and similar places. I have personally witnessed them park the fire truck (the piece of expensive equipment that has a long lead time if it is damaged in an accident) in the parking lot and wander around the store wasting time. Go ahead and claim they are there on official business, and that is why they are looking at car washing supplies...

People in retail, utilities, and others work weekends and holidays...they would love a 20% pay increase too!

When my salary was $33K a year I was not getting paid to sleep, shop, joy ride in expensive equipment, nor sit in front of a computer.

20% pay increase in one year is a ridiculous amount to ask for!

It would be a waste of time to argue with you. I can just hope that other people will know better.

[Mleeja]

I haven't seen any information on what the impact on us would be if the raises would be put into effect. Has there been any information on what the total amount of an increase would be for The Villages? At 50,000 homes would an increease of $10.00 or $20.00 per house per year cover it? Seems like a small amount of money per household considering how valuable these folks are to our lives.

Apparently you have not seen the discussion on spending $3.00 per rooftop to increase safety on the MMPs. Look it up. You would be surprised how our residents oppose increases.

I think the concern or dialog should also include the legacy costs as it should with all public sector employee salaries. The Villages is one of the richest communities in the US where many cities and states are cutting back on services and infrastructure spending because of promises made to public sector employees they are struggling to meet. The public sector often pays retirement benefits for 30 to 40 years or more. What is the real cost of a $10,000 increase in salary.

I think we have all agreed that safety personnel deserves an increase. I've seen in the posts where the increase would be from 33k to 40k per year. I suspect this increase is being pushed by the Union. (Are The Villages firefighters even unionized?) This increase will not happen, but what is reasonable? How are the wages of The Villages compared to the surrounding communities? What will it take to catch them up or make The Villages highest paid department in the area? These are the questions I would like to see answered.

[Reiver]

the fire truck (the piece of expensive equipment) .... they are looking at car washing supplies

Those two statements don't click together in your mind? My small town volunteer company washed the trucks whenever they were used. At least once a week.

Beside which, their most recent report (2013) indicates nearly 15,000 calls. Roughly 150 fire related. 9,000 medical related. 3,800 service calls. I wouldn't be surprised if the number of calls is now over 20,000 per year. Add in training time and I can guarantee you that they are busy. Read the reports.

[CWGUY]

It would be a waste of time to argue with you. I can just hope that other people will know better.

:BigApplause: It would be! And most do know better.

dirtbaggers that don't know what they are talking about should keep quiet.

[Biker Dog]

:BigApplause: It would be! And most do know better.

dirtbaggers that don't know what they are talking about should keep quiet.

I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU!!!!!!!! I volunteered in Pennsylvania for 26 years and it takes dedication of ones self and their family.:clap2:

[Chatbrat]

$33K, is a joke--there are lots of retired firefighter and police who live in the villages, if they made what the villages fire fighters are paid, they would not be living here--NYC pensions are based on ONE high year--6 figure pensions are common place-- the only difference is living where public unions have clout.

NJ teachers and administrators make double or triple what their counterparts in Fl--again--public unions

People should be paid what they are worth-not for the leverage their unions have--A fire fighter or policer who puts their lives on the line deserves much better pay

than a roofer or a landscaper

Having been a member of a volunteer FD who lost a member whose real job was a professional firefighter--no one should deny any firefighter a raise & @40K --its still not enough

[graciegirl]

They are frequently woken up in the middle of the night which wreaks havoc with on their systems. The only shopping that I know of is to a fast food place or supermarket to buy food. Joy rides were to check hydrants or smoke alarms or service calls. They also work weekends and holidays. My husband is a retired FF so I know that this is misinformation.

If you lived on a salary of 33000 a year it was many years ago and probably did not involve life or death situations. Personally I made much more than this to sit in front of a computer.

I am surprised to find out that you are married to the firefighter and not the firefighter.

Being awakened in the middle of the night...havoc with their systems. NOT a good debate argument. Actually none of the responses above are good debate responses for this situation. I also think that you must think we as Villagers can do anything about this issue. Are you really the wife of a RETIRED Fire Fighter or one who is now employed??? It FEELS to me that you have a dog in this fight.

I am not trying to embarrass you, just give you some tips on debate and presenting information in order to effectively sway the reader or listener.

Most of us who live here are very supportive of First Responders.

[dirtbanker]

:BigApplause: It would be! And most do know better.

dirtbaggers that don't know what they are talking about should keep quiet.

I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU!!!!!!!! I volunteered in Pennsylvania for 26 years and it takes dedication of ones self and their family.:clap2:

Oh, because I am not in your firefighter cheering club you don't feel my opinion should be heard...

I am sure you learned the real reason why you volunteered during the psychological testing. You could not just drive past a fire, so you might as well be going there for a purpose.

The teachers have a tough job, the grounds keepers have a tough job, the utilities workers have a tough job, the bartenders down at the square have a tough job...we want to attract the best at all those positions too, lets give them all 20% more salary in a year!!!!

That is a ridiculous amount to ask for in one year, and no it is not going to attract any better candidates - because the people they already have (the ones working for 33K a year) are not going to be fired to make room for better personnel.

This is not NY, this is not PA...the salaries are lower here and so is the costs to live here. Stop trying to ruin it by matching salaries they had up north, where cost of living was so high we retired here.

[skip0358]

$33K, is a joke--there are lots of retired firefighter and police who live in the villages, if they made what the villages fire fighters are paid, they would not be living here--NYC pensions are based on ONE high year--6 figure pensions are common place-- the only difference is living where public unions have clout.

NJ teachers and administrators make double or triple what their counterparts in Fl--again--public unions

People should be paid what they are worth-not for the leverage their unions have--A fire fighter or policer who puts their lives on the line deserves much better pay

than a roofer or a landscaper

Having been a member of a volunteer FD who lost a member whose real job was a professional firefighter--no one should deny any firefighter a raise & @40K --its still not enough
AMEN to that. We lost a few guys in our Volunteer Dept. We also had several Paid guys from FDNY who always offered help & advice in training. I remember after 9/11 how many paid guys who were also Vollies answered their last call. The Funerals were non stop. We trained hard and did the job that was needed. Some who don't know about the job should not post comments period. They deserve a raise in both Salary & Pension. Look at your tax bill the Fire Service tax is a joke.

[fw102807]

. Are you really the wife of a RETIRED Fire Fighter or one who is now employed??? It FEELS to me that you have a dog in this fight.



My husband is a 21 year veteran who retired in 2003. I have no dog in this fight but am just upset that SOME people think it is OK to pay an EMT just barely more than a hamburger flipper.

[graciegirl]

My husband is a 21 year veteran who retired in 2003. I have no dog in this fight but am just upset that SOME people think it is OK to pay an EMT just barely more than a hamburger flipper.

Please thank him for his service and give him a hug. Perhaps you shouldn't run for office any time soon. ;)

[fw102807]

Please thank him for his service and give him a hug. Perhaps you shouldn't run for office any time soon. ;)

No problem. I hate politics.

[Barefoot]

I am sure you learned the real reason why you volunteered during the psychological testing. You could not just drive past a fire, so you might as well be going there for a purpose.
:ohdear: You're comparing the job of Firefighters to bartenders at the Squares?

[CWGUY]

:pray:Firefighter's Prayer
- Author Unknown

When I am called to duty, God,
wherever flames may rage,
give me strength to save a life,
whatever be its age.
Help me embrace a little child
before it is too late,
or save an older person from
the horror of that fate.
Enable me to be alert,
and hear the weakest shout,
quickly and efficiently
to put the fire out.
I want to fill my calling,
to give the best in me,
to guard my friend and neighbor,
and protect his property.
And if according to Your will
I must answer death's call,
bless with your protecting hand,
my family one and all.

[eremite06]

Unless you've done the job (30 yrs. in Miami), you haven't got a clue.

[skip0358]

Unless you've done the job (30 yrs. in Miami), you haven't got a clue.

AMEN Thank you for your service

[Chatbrat]

In the old days, unlike the movies, in a fire you're blind as a bat and when you.re doing a search you have no idea where you are I just made it our before my Scott pak ran out. Thank God we got the new 4.5's

[biker1]

There are many things to be upset about in the world but what people, who you have never met, think is not one of them. What people get paid is complicated. There is a difference between the public and private sector. In the private sector, what you make is often controlled by how much revenue and profit you bring into the organization. In the public sector, there is no profit incentive so politics plays a bigger role.


My husband is a 21 year veteran who retired in 2003. I have no dog in this fight but am just upset that SOME people think it is OK to pay an EMT just barely more than a hamburger flipper.

[fw102807]

The Union President has asked Villagers to show up at Lake Miona on March 7 @10 AM in the Reliance Room. There's a meeting about the raises

For those of you who do not want a boy scout showing up for your medical emergency this is your opportunity to show up and support your first responders.

[Golf-Tinker]

Bring back Mike Tucker, wherever he is.

[graciegirl]

bring back mike tucker, wherever he is.

like.

[graciegirl]

For those of you who do not want a boy scout showing up for your medical emergency this is your opportunity to show up and support your first responders.

We Villagers do not vote on issues like this. These contracts are negotiated by folks who are in charge of such things. Go talk to the people who have the power and please don't try to get sympathy by saying things like this. It is irritating and not going to get the job done.

[Fredster]

For those of you who do not want a boy scout showing up for your medical emergency this is your opportunity to show up and support your first responders.

Your not helping your cause with statements like that!
I think most of us are smart enough to realize more $$$
doesn't necessarily guarantee a better result.
In the state that I came from teachers are handsomely
paid, but the education of the students sucks!

[fw102807]

Your not helping your cause with statements like that!
I think most of us are smart enough to realize more $$$
doesn't necessarily guarantee a better result.
In the state that I came from teachers are handsomely
paid, but the education of the students sucks!

The educational system is just a mess and I don't even want to go there. All I'm saying is that someone who is responsible for your life should make more than $15.00 an hour and though Villagers don't vote a show of support I'm sure would be much appreciated.

[Fredster]

The educational system is just a mess and I don't even want to go there. All I'm saying is that someone who is responsible for your life should make more than $15.00 an hour and though Villagers don't vote a show of support I'm sure would be much appreciated.

$33600 to start, are the new hires experienced, if not who trains them and bears
the cost of the training, plus equipment, health benefits, supplies such as food etc?
I believe there is a lot more involved than just the initial salary

[Marathon Man]

Sorry. But I was lost with the opening statement. Not a good way to get me onboard.

"How much money do you waste on designer items or tickets to sporting events or even expensive cars but you refuse to pay a few more dollars to pay the first responders? The people who come day and night when you have a medical emergency or are in an accident, or set your house on fire or have to respond to a shooting or bombing. Really people?"

[fw102807]

Sorry. But I was lost with the opening statement. Not a good way to get me onboard.

"How much money do you waste on designer items or tickets to sporting events or even expensive cars but you refuse to pay a few more dollars to pay the first responders? The people who come day and night when you have a medical emergency or are in an accident, or set your house on fire or have to respond to a shooting or bombing. Really people?"

I've already been told I don't belong in politics. Just think it is very sad what they make for saving lives is considered by many as minimum wage.

[Marathon Man]

I've already been told I don't belong in politics. Just think it is very sad what they make for saving lives is considered by many as minimum wage.

Your thoughts and feelings are good. Best of luck.

[kcrazorbackfan]

I've already been told I don't belong in politics. Just think it is very sad what they make for saving lives is considered by many as minimum wage.

I agree with everything you've said. Although there are a LOT of retired Firefighters and Law Enforcement Officers (2 in this family) here in TV, most people do not know what it's like to walk in the shoes of a Firefighters or Law Enforcement Officer; how a lot of these Public Servants have to work multiple jobs to make ends meet for their families. My wife and I are fortunate to have made some good investments over the years and are able to help out our son (a KCPD SWAT Team member) and his family from time to time. We are big proponents any time an increase in a tax to fund a raise for these underpaid people comes up for discussion.

[graciegirl]

I agree with everything you've said. Although there are a LOT of retired Firefighters and Law Enforcement Officers (2 in this family) here in TV, [COmost people do not know what it's like to walk in the shoes of a Firefighters or Law Enforcement Officer; how a lot of these Public Servants have to work multiple jobs to make ends meet for their families. LOR="Magenta"][/COLOR] My wife and I are fortunate to have made some good investments over the years and are able to help out our son (a KCPD SWAT Team member) and his family from time to time. We are big proponents any time an increase in a tax to fund a raise for these underpaid people comes up for discussion.

That isn't an option in this instance. She has been told by many of us that we are supportive of an increase, but in a CDD form of government, it doesn't come to a vote. She isn't helping this cause, which she says no longer affects her directly, as she is the wife a retired Fireman. Talking about minimum wage to a group of people who have lived very carefully, for the most part, saved and sacrificed themselves, also worked long hours or two jobs,doesn't win sympathy. We may NOT have walked in the footsteps of first responders but we have lived long enough that we don't have to have a house fall on us to understand a situation. Many of us have uncles, brothers, sisters, and friends who are in Law Enforcement or EMS or Firefighters. We get it. We really do understand. There is no need to stir the pot and make us feel as if we are adversaries, when we are not.

[Marathon Man]

That isn't an option in this instance. She has been told by many of us that we are supportive of an increase, but in a CDD form of government, it doesn't come to a vote. She isn't helping this cause, which she says no longer affects her directly, as she is the wife a retired Fireman. Talking about minimum wage to a group of people who have lived very carefully, for the most part, saved and sacrificed themselves, also worked long hours or two jobs,doesn't win sympathy. We may NOT have walked in the footsteps of first responders but we have lived long enough that we don't have to have a house fall on us to understand a situation. Many of us have uncles, brothers, sisters, and friends who are in Law Enforcement or EMS or Firefighters. We get it. We really do understand. There is no need to stir the pot and make us feel as if we are adversaries, when we are not.

Extremely well said.

[Barefoot]

Just think it is very sad what they make for saving lives is considered by many as minimum wage.:agree:

[Mleeja]

I agree with everything you've said. Although there are a LOT of retired Firefighters and Law Enforcement Officers (2 in this family) here in TV, most people do not know what it's like to walk in the shoes of a Firefighters or Law Enforcement Officer; how a lot of these Public Servants have to work multiple jobs to make ends meet for their families. My wife and I are fortunate to have made some good investments over the years and are able to help out our son (a KCPD SWAT Team member) and his family from time to time. We are big proponents any time an increase in a tax to fund a raise for these underpaid people comes up for discussion.

I don't think anyone has disagreed that firefighters or EMS deserves more money. The question is what is reasonable. I don't know, and no one has published what are comparative wages for firefighters and EMS personnel in central Florida. You can't compare the cost of living in Kansas City or New Jersey to that of central Florida. If an increase of 5% will put our firefighters or EMS at the top of the pay scale in this area then let's do it. However, without comparative numbers, this discussion is just all emotion.

[GaryW]

Being a Marine I understand just about every post in the forum. I have never understood a few things. Why a service man can be sent to a foreign county, fight for something he may or may not believe in, get shot, a limb blown off or worse. Then come back to the good ole USA, and have to have charities raise money for their medical expenses. I. E Wounded Warriors and so on. NEVER HAVE UNDERSTOOD THAT, NEVER!!

Next would be why teachers make chicken feed except where you work, it may be Hen feed then. Unless you coach footbal, then you make a killing at the expense of the students tuition.

Then you have LEO-FIRE RESCUE. Why?? THese cats deserve what ever we can give them. You call them,, they are there!!! Like the post man. EXCEPT these cats really do show up in all types of weather extremes and conditions. I really do :BigApplause: all First Responders. Many of my friends are FHP and local law enforcement. And now my Daughter is attending the Fire Academy for Fire-EMT. Now I understand even more what they do. All I can say for my daughter and all that are First Responders is this Love Ya, and :BigApplause::bigbow::beer3:

[Biker Dog]

Being a Marine I understand just about every post in the forum. I have never understood a few things. Why a service man can be sent to a foreign county, fight for something he may or may not believe in, get shot, a limb blown off or worse. Then come back to the good ole USA, and have to have charities raise money for their medical expenses. I. E Wounded Warriors and so on. NEVER HAVE UNDERSTOOD THAT, NEVER!!

Next would be why teachers make chicken feed except where you work, it may be Hen feed then. Unless you coach footbal, then you make a killing at the expense of the students tuition.

Then you have LEO-FIRE RESCUE. Why?? THese cats deserve what ever we can give them. You call them,, they are there!!! Like the post man. EXCEPT these cats really do show up in all types of weather extremes and conditions. I really do :BigApplause: all First Responders. Many of my friends are FHP and local law enforcement. And now my Daughter is attending the Fire Academy for Fire-EMT. Now I understand even more what they do. All I can say for my daughter and all that are First Responders is this Love Ya, and :BigApplause::bigbow::beer3:
AMEN!!!!!!!!:thumbup:

[fw102807]

Being a Marine I understand just about every post in the forum. I have never understood a few things. Why a service man can be sent to a foreign county, fight for something he may or may not believe in, get shot, a limb blown off or worse. Then come back to the good ole USA, and have to have charities raise money for their medical expenses. I. E Wounded Warriors and so on. NEVER HAVE UNDERSTOOD THAT, NEVER!!

Next would be why teachers make chicken feed except where you work, it may be Hen feed then. Unless you coach footbal, then you make a killing at the expense of the students tuition.

Then you have LEO-FIRE RESCUE. Why?? THese cats deserve what ever we can give them. You call them,, they are there!!! Like the post man. EXCEPT these cats really do show up in all types of weather extremes and conditions. I really do :BigApplause: all First Responders. Many of my friends are FHP and local law enforcement. And now my Daughter is attending the Fire Academy for Fire-EMT. Now I understand even more what they do. All I can say for my daughter and all that are First Responders is this Love Ya, and :BigApplause::bigbow::beer3:
:agree:

[blueash]

-A fire fighter or policer who puts their lives on the line deserves much better pay than a roofer or a landscaper

Just to keep things in proper perspective. I am not sure why you think a roofer or a landscaper does not put their life on the line.

Here are the death data:
There are about 1.2 million firefighters in the US not including private and federal. There are about 70 deaths per year in that group and more than half are heart attacks or stress (http://www.nfpa.org/news-and-research/fire-statistics-and-reports/fire-statistics/the-fire-service/fatalities-and-injuries/firefighter-deaths-by-cause-and-nature-of-injury) and this includes things like a 66 yo who died after 20 mins on a treadmill (https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/fire/reports/face201613.html)which is not clearly a job related death. A death rate including all 70 as job related gives 58 per million.

Roofers have a death rate of over 300 per million (http://www.elcosh.org/document/1428/d000491/Causes%2Bof%2BRoofer%2BDeaths.html)or more than six times that of firefighters, and 12 times if you don't include sudden death from heart disease.

So if risk of death is going to be brought up as a main criteria then roofers have a much better argument for a huge pay raise.

Landscapers? I don't have data for the workers but I do for the supervisors. Fatality rate of 181 per million (https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/cfoi.pdf)on the job, or double that of firefighters.

Do I think our public servants are underpaid, yes. But the risk of firefighting is much lower than many other fields. And the risk in the Villages is certainly lower than in most other departments.

Just FYI here are the highest fatality risk occupations and deaths per million in 2015
(https://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/cfoi/cfch0014.pdf)Logging 1327
Fishing 548
Aircraft pilots and flight engineers 404
Roofers 397
Refuse collection 388 yes the "garbage man" is five times more likely to die doing the job than a firefighter
Iron and steel workers 298
Drivers 243
Farmers 220
Electrical install and repair 205
Supervisors of landscapers 181

Estimating this one
Police 145 [2016 data 145 death (https://www.odmp.org/search/year/2016)and estimated 1 million police (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi-yueIlcDUAhUHKiYKHSDRAfcQFgguMAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FLaw_en forcement_in_the_United_States&usg=AFQjCNHv_kpxkarKCbLbYk1tpwBfg3z5Eg)]

and Firefighters 58

[Chatbrat]

Even IMHO, more important than the $$ is the staffing--2 persons per engine and truck is a joke; how can you do an immediate search for a victim or victims without a charged line prior to making an entry..

4 persons should be the minimum/ 3 is a band aid--in most fires here the primary goal is not to save the structure but prevent it from extending to neighboring structures, the insurance industry most likely doesn't know the staffing of the apparatus inTV

[Nucky]

Cut back on a Palm Tree here and there and give these people a better wage. They deserve it. When I got hit in my cart they were there to help in minutes and deserve our financial support. Give them what they need to do the job properly. Within reason.

[fw102807]

Just to keep things in proper perspective. I am not sure why you think a roofer or a landscaper does not put their life on the line.

Here are the death data:
There are about 1.2 million firefighters in the US not including private and federal. There are about 70 deaths per year in that group and more than half are heart attacks or stress (http://www.nfpa.org/news-and-research/fire-statistics-and-reports/fire-statistics/the-fire-service/fatalities-and-injuries/firefighter-deaths-by-cause-and-nature-of-injury) and this includes things like a 66 yo who died after 20 mins on a treadmill (https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/fire/reports/face201613.html)which is not clearly a job related death. A death rate including all 70 as job related gives 58 per million.

Roofers have a death rate of over 300 per million (http://www.elcosh.org/document/1428/d000491/Causes%2Bof%2BRoofer%2BDeaths.html)or more than six times that of firefighters, and 12 times if you don't include sudden death from heart disease.

So if risk of death is going to be brought up as a main criteria then roofers have a much better argument for a huge pay raise.

Landscapers? I don't have data for the workers but I do for the supervisors. Fatality rate of 181 per million (https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/cfoi.pdf)on the job, or double that of firefighters.

Do I think our public servants are underpaid, yes. But the risk of firefighting is much lower than many other fields. And the risk in the Villages is certainly lower than in most other departments.

Just FYI here are the highest fatality risk occupations and deaths per million in 2015
(https://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/cfoi/cfch0014.pdf)Logging 1327
Fishing 548
Aircraft pilots and flight engineers 404
Roofers 397
Refuse collection 388 yes the "garbage man" is five times more likely to die doing the job than a firefighter
Iron and steel workers 298
Drivers 243
Farmers 220
Electrical install and repair 205
Supervisors of landscapers 181

Estimating this one
Police 145 [2016 data 145 death (https://www.odmp.org/search/year/2016)and estimated 1 million police (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi-yueIlcDUAhUHKiYKHSDRAfcQFgguMAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FLaw_en forcement_in_the_United_States&usg=AFQjCNHv_kpxkarKCbLbYk1tpwBfg3z5Eg)]

and Firefighters 58

To me it's about the lives they save. If I have any kind of emergency I don't want to rely on an understaffed dept of rookies.

[Barefoot]

Just to keep things in proper perspective. I am not sure why you think a roofer or a landscaper does not put their life on the line.

Here are the death data:
There are about 1.2 million firefighters in the US not including private and federal. There are about 70 deaths per year in that group and more than half are heart attacks or stress (http://www.nfpa.org/news-and-research/fire-statistics-and-reports/fire-statistics/the-fire-service/fatalities-and-injuries/firefighter-deaths-by-cause-and-nature-of-injury) and this includes things like a 66 yo who died after 20 mins on a treadmill (https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/fire/reports/face201613.html)which is not clearly a job related death. A death rate including all 70 as job related gives 58 per million.

Roofers have a death rate of over 300 per million (http://www.elcosh.org/document/1428/d000491/Causes%2Bof%2BRoofer%2BDeaths.html)or more than six times that of firefighters, and 12 times if you don't include sudden death from heart disease.

So if risk of death is going to be brought up as a main criteria then roofers have a much better argument for a huge pay raise.

Landscapers? I don't have data for the workers but I do for the supervisors. Fatality rate of 181 per million (https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/cfoi.pdf)on the job, or double that of firefighters.

Do I think our public servants are underpaid, yes. But the risk of firefighting is much lower than many other fields. And the risk in the Villages is certainly lower than in most other departments.

Just FYI here are the highest fatality risk occupations and deaths per million in 2015
(https://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/cfoi/cfch0014.pdf)Logging 1327
Fishing 548
Aircraft pilots and flight engineers 404
Roofers 397
Refuse collection 388 yes the "garbage man" is five times more likely to die doing the job than a firefighter
Iron and steel workers 298
Drivers 243
Farmers 220
Electrical install and repair 205
Supervisors of landscapers 181

Estimating this one
Police 145 [2016 data 145 death (https://www.odmp.org/search/year/2016)and estimated 1 million police (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi-yueIlcDUAhUHKiYKHSDRAfcQFgguMAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FLaw_en forcement_in_the_United_States&usg=AFQjCNHv_kpxkarKCbLbYk1tpwBfg3z5Eg)]

and Firefighters 58
These statistics show that Firefighters are well trained and well prepared for their job, and have adequate PPE.

[fw102807]

Kind of funny and sad

[autumnspring]

The salaries paid to firefighters, police, teachers, the military and others that provide a great public service....have always been ridiculously low in my opinion.

The problem of course, is that wages are pretty much driven by what it takes...to get qualified people to fill those positions.

Comparing professional athletes and entertainers, with these jobs...just isn't realistic.

Team owners don't want to pay any more than they need to either, but will do it based on what they think they have to shell out to fill the seats.

And therein lies the big problem.

Athletes/entertainers are paid on what they can make their owners (ROI), whereas dedicated public servants are considered a 'necessary evil'...by those who want their taxes to stay low.

Is it fair that most plumbers make more than a cop or firefighter?

Not in my book...but yet they do. :shrug:

I'm truly not arguing BUT you need to look at the total COMPENSATION PACKAGE. Retirement age, 401K, 403B, medical care.

Someone mentioned a comparison to NY. As an ex-New Yorker you may not be aware what the cost of living is.
It is far higher than here. A former friend was with JC Penny. They offered a 20% raise to anyone who had to move to NY metro area. Those that checked found out due to the higher cost of living their standard of living would fall. We paid a 6% state tax plus ???? 2% for a non resident NYC tax. To get to work was $150 a month to the LIRR. The real estate tax on our 1200 sq foot house on a 50x100 lot was $10,000.

[redwitch]

If what I've been reading on this issue is accurate, there is something seriously wrong.

1. The Villages fire fighters are the lowest paid not just in the Tri-County area, but all of Central Florida.

2. The Villages has an exceedingly high turnover rate. It seems that many use TV for training and then move on to other fire departments for better pay and retirement benefits.

3. We are seriously understaffed.

4. Under the new negotiations/contract to date (arbitration to come), new hires will start at a higher rate of pay, old employees are not getting increases.

If these facts are correct, there is something seriously wrong. We deserve to have the best fire department possible-- not one staffed by people who leave as soon as they feel are fully trained. Our fire engines need to be fully staffed -- not just two individuals per truck. Our emergency response providers deserve to be paid at least as much as those in surrounding communities, if not more.

I really don't understand how TV can budget hundreds of thousands for landscapers but not budget fair wages for those hired to protect that property and the individuals who use that property, including those who reside here.

[Gpsma]

I'm truly not arguing BUT you need to look at the total COMPENSATION PACKAGE. Retirement age, 401K, 403B, medical care.

Someone mentioned a comparison to NY. As an ex-New Yorker you may not be aware what the cost of living is.
It is far higher than here. A former friend was with JC Penny. They offered a 20% raise to anyone who had to move to NY metro area. Those that checked found out due to the higher cost of living their standard of living would fall. We paid a 6% state tax plus ???? 2% for a non resident NYC tax. To get to work was $150 a month to the LIRR. The real estate tax on our 1200 sq foot house on a 50x100 lot was $10,000.

Thank you for posting the reality of giving into municipal unions. The old emotional cry that "they risk their lives to save others" just doesn't match up to reality. Why LI police are among the highest paid in the nation when they rarely work as hard as their NYPD colleagues is a testament to collusion between municipal unions and elected politicians.

Not denying that TV firemen deserve a decent salary but lets stop with the emotional saving my life argument.

[JoMar]

If the truth is that the rookies come here, get trained and a level of experience and then leave to join other Companies at higher wages and improved benefits all the comparisons and previous arguments really don't matter. If you believe that is the truth and you are willing to have a less experienced force to respond to your emergency needs then the comparisons don't matter. When you are satisfied with the status quo then you accept the status quo as sufficient to meet you needs and the comparisons don't matter. Until of course, you need their services....then the comparisons might matter.

[villagetinker]

I wonder if it would be possible (or a good idea) to see if the counties would take over the villages fire stations. The villages would pay (at a minimum) the existing wages as fees for fire service, EMT, etc. coverage. The fire fighters, EMTs, etc. would not be county employees, with access to pension plans, 401K, higher wages, etc. The counties would pay the employees the higher wages.

I do admit there might be an increase in taxes (property) but there might be advantages to this approach, but from what I have seen this is not necessarily a concern.

Disclaimer: I was a volunteer fire fighter for 7 years in PA., a long time ago. I have no dog in this fight, but I am presenting as a possible alternative. I have no problem with these people being county employees, as they would still be stationed in the villages, and the villages would still be primary response.

[Carl in Tampa]

Being awakened in the middle of the night...havoc with their systems. NOT a good debate argument.

Actually, Gracie, medical research indicates that being jarred out of a sound sleep in order to respond to a fire alarm is one of the principal causes of Cardiac Heart Disease (CHD.) This has been accepted fact for decades, and the majority of our states, Florida among them, have codified a presumption of Line of Duty injury for firefighters who develop CHD.

Florida has added coverage for police as well in recent years.

FLORIDA STATUTE 112.18 (2002)

112.18 Firefighters and law enforcement or correctional officers; special provisions relative to disability —

(1) Any condition or impairment of health of any Florida state, municipal, county, port authority, special tax district, or fire control district firefighter or any law enforcement officer or correctional officer as defined in s. 943.10(1), (2), or (3) caused by tuberculosis, heart disease, or hypertension resulting in total or partial disability or death shall be presumed to have been accidental and to have been suffered in the line of duty unless the contrary be shown by competent evidence.

--------------------------------

One medical study said: Coronary heart disease (CHD) has consistently been the leading cause of "on-duty deaths" or fatalities resulting from injury or illness occurring during fire department duties. CHD accounted for about 45% of these deaths from 1977–2002. This compares with 22% of on-duty deaths due to CHD among police and detectives, 15% among occupational fatalities overall, and 11% among other emergency medical service (EMS) workers.

The study reports: Numerous occupational factors could precipitate CHD events in firefighters. First, firefighting includes long sedentary stretches followed by irregular heavy exertion. Firefighters react immediately to alarms with significant increases in pulse rate. During fire suppression, they work at near maximal heart rates while wearing about 50 pounds of protective equipment, sometimes for prolonged periods. Heat stress and fluid losses can result in decreases in cardiac output despite sustained tachycardia. Second, self-contained breathing apparatus use has reduced, but not eliminated chemical exposures including carbon monoxide, particulates and other toxicants. Third, firefighters experience intermittent noise exposure, which may increase blood pressure. Fourth, firefighters often perform shift work, which may increase the risk of CHD.

Firefighters and on-duty deaths from coronary heart disease: a case control study (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC293431/)

[Larry&Mary]

As a retired LEO from Michigan I think firefighters and police pay and benefits should be compared to "comparable departments" in the area. Defined benefit pensions are slowly going away. Defined contribution pensions, with significant contributions by both employer and employee is essential. Health benefits should also be compared to area departments. First responders deserve fair and equitable compensation and benefits

[graciegirl]

I am very disturbed by the opposition to pay increases to the firefighters. People see nothing wrong with paying some fool who can throw a ball around millions of dollars but do not want to pay someone who may save their life.
How much money do you waste on designer items or tickets to sporting events or even expensive cars but you refuse to pay a few more dollars to pay the first responders? The people who come day and night when you have a medical emergency or are in an accident, or set your house on fire or have to respond to a shooting or bombing. Really people?

I agree but who are you angry with? I don't waste money. I am a grateful for firefighters.

[graciegirl]

As a retired LEO from Michigan I think firefighters and police pay and benefits should be compared to "comparable departments" in the area. Defined benefit pensions are slowly going away. Defined contribution pensions, with significant contributions by both employer and employee is essential. Health benefits should also be compared to area departments. First responders deserve fair and equitable compensation and benefits

Bump for good points.

[eremite06]

Actually, Gracie, medical research indicates that being jarred out of a sound sleep in order to respond to a fire alarm is one of the principal causes of Cardiac Heart Disease (CHD.) This has been accepted fact for decades, and the majority of our states, Florida among them, have codified a presumption of Line of Duty injury for firefighters who develop CHD.

Florida has added coverage for police as well in recent years.

FLORIDA STATUTE 112.18 (2002)

112.18 Firefighters and law enforcement or correctional officers; special provisions relative to disability —

(1) Any condition or impairment of health of any Florida state, municipal, county, port authority, special tax district, or fire control district firefighter or any law enforcement officer or correctional officer as defined in s. 943.10(1), (2), or (3) caused by tuberculosis, heart disease, or hypertension resulting in total or partial disability or death shall be presumed to have been accidental and to have been suffered in the line of duty unless the contrary be shown by competent evidence.

--------------------------------

One medical study said: Coronary heart disease (CHD) has consistently been the leading cause of "on-duty deaths" or fatalities resulting from injury or illness occurring during fire department duties. CHD accounted for about 45% of these deaths from 1977–2002. This compares with 22% of on-duty deaths due to CHD among police and detectives, 15% among occupational fatalities overall, and 11% among other emergency medical service (EMS) workers.

The study reports: Numerous occupational factors could precipitate CHD events in firefighters. First, firefighting includes long sedentary stretches followed by irregular heavy exertion. Firefighters react immediately to alarms with significant increases in pulse rate. During fire suppression, they work at near maximal heart rates while wearing about 50 pounds of protective equipment, sometimes for prolonged periods. Heat stress and fluid losses can result in decreases in cardiac output despite sustained tachycardia. Second, self-contained breathing apparatus use has reduced, but not eliminated chemical exposures including carbon monoxide, particulates and other toxicants. Third, firefighters experience intermittent noise exposure, which may increase blood pressure. Fourth, firefighters often perform shift work, which may increase the risk of CHD.

Firefighters and on-duty deaths from coronary heart disease: a case control study (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC293431/)

Thank you. That's why, although I retired 11 years ago, I have Work Comp. coverage for hypertension and a bad back. All considered work related. I had coworkers who died in the line of duty as well as from their own hands.

[The Buckeyes]

The problem is most people are looking at a raw number on wages. I suggest you throw in the annual pension and benefit contributions an employer makes per employee to see what the real wage the person is making. I used to vote yes on school levies up north until I FOUND OUT it isn't about the kids. The school gets 15 cents from every dollar and the remaining 85 cents goes for salaries, pensions and benefits.

[57ChevyFI]

As much as I respect firefighters and appreciate everything they do, I've never understood why they get paid to sleep on 24 hour shifts. Why don't they do 12 hour shifts or some other rotating shifts. I can't think of many jobs where you get paid to sleep, just wondering.

[Barefoot]

As much as I respect firefighters and appreciate everything they do, I've never understood why they get paid to sleep on 24 hour shifts. Why don't they do 12 hour shifts or some other rotating shifts. I can't think of many jobs where you get paid to sleep, just wondering.
If firefighters worked a 12 hour night shift, wouldn't they still sleep?
Or would you want them to stay awake in case their services were required?
To me it makes more sense for firefighters to work 24 hours shifts.
That way they can spend the days training and cleaning the trucks and equipment, and at night they are on call.

[CFrance]

As much as I respect firefighters and appreciate everything they do, I've never understood why they get paid to sleep on 24 hour shifts. Why don't they do 12 hour shifts or some other rotating shifts. I can't think of many jobs where you get paid to sleep, just wondering.
Don't doctors at hospitals do it? Don't they have rooms with beds where they can sleep?

[rubicon]

"Firefighters" the last of the American hero.

I use to see some of these guys work out at the gym so I went to one of them and asked how much weight he could lift. Why, he asked I told him because I wanted to be sure if he responded to an alarm for a fire at my house I wanted to be sure he could lift me and carry me out to safety:D

As this community grows so will the need for employing more and more people. And employment costs and hence taxes, fees, etc will continue to rise. its one of the reasons I have mixed emotion about the expansion of The Villages.
Before long some will look down at their tax bill and wonder if they moved to New York City ( a bit of hyperbole, I know but..................)

[dewilson58]

As much as I respect firefighters and appreciate everything they do, I've never understood why they get paid to sleep on 24 hour shifts. Why don't they do 12 hour shifts or some other rotating shifts. I can't think of many jobs where you get paid to sleep, just wondering.

It takes less firefighters to cover 24/7. You can wash the trucks so many times.

[GaryW]

Just to keep things in proper perspective. I am not sure why you think a roofer or a landscaper does not put their life on the line.

Here are the death data:
There are about 1.2 million firefighters in the US not including private and federal. There are about 70 deaths per year in that group and more than half are heart attacks or stress (http://www.nfpa.org/news-and-research/fire-statistics-and-reports/fire-statistics/the-fire-service/fatalities-and-injuries/firefighter-deaths-by-cause-and-nature-of-injury) and this includes things like a 66 yo who died after 20 mins on a treadmill (https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/fire/reports/face201613.html)which is not clearly a job related death. A death rate including all 70 as job related gives 58 per million.

Roofers have a death rate of over 300 per million (http://www.elcosh.org/document/1428/d000491/Causes%2Bof%2BRoofer%2BDeaths.html)or more than six times that of firefighters, and 12 times if you don't include sudden death from heart disease.

So if risk of death is going to be brought up as a main criteria then roofers have a much better argument for a huge pay raise.

Landscapers? I don't have data for the workers but I do for the supervisors. Fatality rate of 181 per million (https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/cfoi.pdf)on the job, or double that of firefighters.

Do I think our public servants are underpaid, yes. But the risk of firefighting is much lower than many other fields. And the risk in the Villages is certainly lower than in most other departments.

Just FYI here are the highest fatality risk occupations and deaths per million in 2015
(https://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/cfoi/cfch0014.pdf)Logging 1327
Fishing 548
Aircraft pilots and flight engineers 404
Roofers 397
Refuse collection 388 yes the "garbage man" is five times more likely to die doing the job than a firefighter
Iron and steel workers 298
Drivers 243
Farmers 220
Electrical install and repair 205
Supervisors of landscapers 181

Estimating this one
Police 145 [2016 data 145 death (https://www.odmp.org/search/year/2016)and estimated 1 million police (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi-yueIlcDUAhUHKiYKHSDRAfcQFgguMAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FLaw_en forcement_in_the_United_States&usg=AFQjCNHv_kpxkarKCbLbYk1tpwBfg3z5Eg)]

and Firefighters 58


Might need to change you stats,,, FHP Tropper killed on 75 while working another accident. Trooper for 30 years. Where was the Plumber or Landscaper on that deal. Do not think either one of them where out there. :spoken:

Get the point. I do think that I read in a article that most job related deaths among trades like that where completely avoidable had a training program been in place. Fall Safety is a big issue in all trades as in Firefighting.
You can not fix stupidity, but you can train it to be less of a concern.

Funny you mention fishing. Just like the show Deadliest Catch. Not sure if you noticed but them CATS GET PAID to brave that crap in the Bering Sea.
What about Military since you are comparing. Lets take their Rate of Pay versus all of this. Should our Military not make More Money than all, and not have to worry about having no arm or leg or eye or what have you and having to rely on a charity to help them or build them a house.

LEO and Firefighters as a whole face danger daily. Not sure how many of the above mentioned would have volunteered to run into the World Trade Centers to go up to the fire and try to save a life if only just that one life.
Sure The Villages Fire Dept is not going to have to worry about a big threat like 9-11. But they have to be trained and trained hard for you never know when Lighting will strike your house, the gas blow up, fall asleep with a cig in your mouth or hand, or a major accident and they have to rescue you. That training my friend you will be glad they got.

As far as 401k and benefits. Make sure you know which Fire Dept pays what benefits. Not all of them pay the same or even offer the benefits that a neighboring county pays. My daughter just past her State test and CPAT to be able to apply to TV FD. But as they were told in training, go to where the total benefit package is the best. It may not be the highest paid per year, but get the total package, retirement and all. I have 2 friends on The Villages FD. Really great guys. And they always say TVFD is a stepping stone for most to move on. It is not the responsibility of the Firefighters to change that. It is the Employers responsibility to make them want to stay. :beer3:
Just saying

http://www.nfpa.org/news-and-research/fire-statistics-and-reports/fire-statistics/the-fire-service/fatalities-and-injuries/firefighter-deaths-by-cause-and-nature-of-injury

[GaryW]

To me it's about the lives they save. If I have any kind of emergency I don't want to rely on an understaffed dept of rookies.

I agree. A roofer or a Landscaper or Driver or a Electrician house catch on fire or start the fire because they made a mistake on the job, it is now the Firefighter that has to put their life a risk to solve the problem. :bigbow:

[CFrance]

I agree. A roofer or a Landscaper or Driver or a Electrician house catch on fire or start the fire because they made a mistake on the job, it is now the Firefighter that has to put their life a risk to solve the problem. :bigbow:
One thing to consider about the rate for firefighters, and police for that matter, is that stress leading to health/mental problems leading to death is not factored into that statistic. Who can tell what the real number is.

[Mrs. Robinson]

I am very disturbed by the opposition to pay increases to the firefighters. People see nothing wrong with paying some fool who can throw a ball around millions of dollars but do not want to pay someone who may save their life.
How much money do you waste on designer items or tickets to sporting events or even expensive cars but you refuse to pay a few more dollars to pay the first responders? The people who come day and night when you have a medical emergency or are in an accident, or set your house on fire or have to respond to a shooting or bombing. Really people?

I understand (have been told) that the Sumter firefighters are underpaid but have no idea what their salary range is.
It would be helpful to know this.

Perhaps those who might be opposed to giving them a raise is from previous knowledge of firefighters' salaries in the area where they lived prior to moving to TV???
I don't really know; I'm just playing devil's advocate.

I can cite one example where the masses were upset with the firefighters union.
The firefighters could retire after 20 years.
So possibly at 40 years old, they could get another job (no problem with that),
but at retirement age, they would collect about $80,000 a year from their pension.
There was a special tax every year which residents had to pay for that purpose (the pension).
There were many people who were very unhappy about this.

[JohnB]

Fundamentally, we are pounding on our neighbors door and DEMANDING they pay more money to firefighters. Who is next? Police, recreation department workers, etc. etc. Why are the people who live here not permitted to vote for these increases which other sites (WFTV8) say are a 50% increase year over year. I wish I got a 50% increase in my SocSec to pay for this.

[skip0358]

Those in the Sumter County portion of TV are paying less the those living outside TV in Sumter County for Fire Tax.That's not fair either and starting with your new tax bill that will be changing. Increse of about $120.00 per year.Still a big bargain. My house was covered by a volunteer dept and I paid $800.00 + for my fire tax. Your getting a bargain here, we have top notch equipment and well trained personnel and we need to keep them. They deserve a raise to at least that what other fire personnel in Sumter ,Lake & Marion make. JMO

[fw102807]

I understand (have been told) that the Sumter firefighters are underpaid but have no idea what their salary range is.
It would be helpful to know this.

Perhaps those who might be opposed to giving them a raise is from previous knowledge of firefighters' salaries in the area where they lived prior to moving to TV???
I don't really know; I'm just playing devil's advocate.

I can cite one example where the masses were upset with the firefighters union.
The firefighters could retire after 20 years.
So possibly at 40 years old, they could get another job (no problem with that),
but at retirement age, they would collect about $80,000 a year from their pension.
There was a special tax every year which residents had to pay for that purpose (the pension).
There were many people who were very unhappy about this.

My husband was a firefighter in a large city up north and in the union and I only wish he could have retired at 40 and had an 80,000 pension.

[graciegirl]

My husband was a firefighter in a large city up north and in the union and I only wish he could have retired at 40 and had an 80,000 pension.

You aren't alone. That is a good wish.

[manaboutown]

Well, if I wanted to become a firemen or a police officer today I would go where the pay, benefits and retirement were top drawer (if they would have me). This town would look good to me. 2012–2016 salaries for Newport Beach | Transparent California (http://transparentcalifornia.com/salaries/newport-beach/) rather than a lower paying area such as https://www.cabq.gov/fire/become-a-firefighter/pay-benefits

[eremite06]

70613

[graciegirl]

70613

Thank you for your service.

I think this is the way to accomplish a pay raise for these wonderful men and women.

Older people don't like being ranted at.

[CWGUY]

Wow really hope you never need help but if you do YOU'LL SEE that they are of the same caliber. Yea there hopefully will never be a 9/11 here but if there were these are the guys & guys that would handle it. They train the same and have the same equipment.. All they want is what the Fire Deprtment in the surrounding departments get.

:agree: I agree 100%.

[Barefoot]

My husband was a firefighter in a large city up north and in the union and I only wish he could have retired at 40 and had an 80,000 pension.
My husband was also a firefighter in a large city up north.
Like you, I only wish he could have retired at 40 with a $80,000 pension.
He was on the job for 32 years before he retired.
Being the captain of a rescue squad, he saw some terrible things, but never brought them home.

[SALYBOW]

I had occasion to call The paramedics/fireman once while here. They arrived quickly and put me at ease right away. We need to keep good personnel in this job. Give them a raise.

[CindyNah1]

remember Florida cost of living is lower thanCalif !!!

I agree tho they earn every penny.