ObamaCare Applied to Restaurants.

[Guest]

http://www.youtube.com/v/BqMKK8AoLCw&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1

[Guest]

Very well done with more truth than one wants to admit. Unfortunately you are not going to find all that many gov't health care fans willing to look at it reasonably.



`

[Guest]

by the Obama campaign ads.

btk

[Guest]

http://www.youtube.com/v/BqMKK8AoLCw&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1


This is ridiculous! :oops:

[Guest]

That video is so right on! Every point that was made has been documented. For you doubters... just ask anybody from Canada!

[Guest]

Some of our dearest friends live in Canada. They also have a home in TV. They wouldn't trade the health care system in Canada for the world. All yearly exams are free and when something critical happens, they have been more than well taken care of. Sorry. You're living in the dark ages. We do not come anywhere close to leading the world in health care. Jump into the 21st century!

[Guest]

If we have "the finest healthcare system" in the world, why are our costs the highest, infant mortality among the highest and life expectancy decreasing?
Have you ever talked to the many Canadians who visit The Villages? They brag about freedom of choice, no waiting and excellent, low-cost health insurance.

[Guest]

I know a lot of people from Canada and they say it is fine unless you get sick. I have a friend who is a doctor and is told by the government how many patients he can see per month. By the 20th of the month he has hit his limit and has to not work or get fined etc. Great system where the waiting list to get assigned a family doctor is two to three years. That is to get a doctor if you don't have one.

[Guest]

This is not a good metaphor to make the point against Obama's health care reform plan.
I have made my position clear that i am AGAINST Obama's plan and why in previous posts.

Anyway, getting back to the restaurant video. 37 years ago when I was a freshman in medical school we had a few medical ethics and medical economics classes that also used the restaurant metaphor. Now, follow my thinking here; How many of you came to TV for the first time on the "lifestyle tour package" and were given meal coupons to Katie Belle's and ordered (or were encouraged to order by your waitress) pounds of steak, lobster, veal chops--- you know, the ones on the menu that are priced in the 70 dollar range? This is what happens when you have an open menu and SOMEONE ELSE is picking up the tab. One of the main factors for most middle class Americans when the choose where to go eat and what to order is COST. If everyone had their dining out experiences picked up 100% by a 3rd party (insurance or the gov't) with no oversight human nature is such that the "Katie Belle experience" would abound and costs would explode out of control. This is true on both sides of the examining table. When Doctors are given a blank check to do as many procedures as they can and are compensated per procedure the "Katie Belle experience" again repeats itself.

Thus... "managed care" has entered the picture to tell you that the menu is limited and if you want the 70 dollar veal chop you will have to pay for it. The ethical challenge arises when this question is asked: 'who decides what is going to be on the menu and what is paid for by the 3rd party?"

SO, the video in this example only holds water if/when we pay for our health care the same way we pay for our Ney York strip steak or our Big Mac's... by reaching directly into our wallets and paying for it with our own cash.

[Guest]

it is impossible to speak one way or another. Unless they have a one size fits all...that no matter who one talks to from Canada, they would have no more or less than the next Canadian. But if they have a standard offering with al carte programs, then who knows what they have when the one asked responds positively.

So without knowing whether Canadian apples are being compared to Canadian grapefruits a legitimate answer is not in the works.

As usual details are required to make an appropriate conclusion.

btk

[Guest]

This is not a good metaphor to make the point against Obama's health care reform plan.
I have made my position clear that i am AGAINST Obama's plan and why in previous posts.

Anyway, getting back to the restaurant video. 37 years ago when I was a freshman in medical school we had a few medical ethics and medical economics classes that also used the restaurant metaphor. Now, follow my thinking here; How many of you came to TV for the first time on the "lifestyle tour package" and were given meal coupons to Katie Belle's and ordered (or were encouraged to order by your waitress) pounds of steak, lobster, veal chops--- you know, the ones on the menu that are priced in the 70 dollar range? This is what happens when you have an open menu and SOMEONE ELSE is picking up the tab. One of the main factors for most middle class Americans when the choose where to go eat and what to order is COST. If everyone had their dining out experiences picked up 100% by a 3rd party (insurance or the gov't) with no oversight human nature is such that the "Katie Belle experience" would abound and costs would explode out of control. This is true on both sides of the examining table. When Doctors are given a blank check to do as many procedures as they can and are compensated per procedure the "Katie Belle experience" again repeats itself.

Thus... "managed care" has entered the picture to tell you that the menu is limited and if you want the 70 dollar veal chop you will have to pay for it. The ethical challenge arises when this question is asked: 'who decides what is going to be on the menu and what is paid for by the 3rd party?"

SO, the video in this example only holds water if/when we pay for our health care the same way we pay for our Ney York strip steak or our Big Mac's... by reaching directly into our wallets and paying for it with our own cash.

The TV analogy is great. Thanks!

[Guest]

I know a lot of people from Canada and they say it is fine unless you get sick. I have a friend who is a doctor and is told by the government how many patients he can see per month. By the 20th of the month he has hit his limit and has to not work or get fined etc. Great system where the waiting list to get assigned a family doctor is two to three years. That is to get a doctor if you don't have one.

First, let me say that I am not in favor of his plan. One thing we already have here that seems to parallel what you say about Canada are the HMO's, though. They are told how many, how much, etc. Our primary physician we had back home had to cut many of his patients because he was making too many referrals to specialists. Of course had he totally "played by their rules", my husband would have died instead of seeing a cardiologist and getting stents.....with 2 major arteries over 90% blocked, he was a heart attack waiting to happen. Same thing with getting him a colonoscopy. Nothing showed up on the office exam, but the more thorough procedure caught already pre-cancerous polyps. I needed an MRI for diagnosis which they denied at first. My physician simply chose to admit me to the hospital in order to do what needed to be done. When asked to approve the hospitalization, they decided that I could go ahead and have the MRI on an out-patient basis instead. Guess what....they found my problem, fixed it, and no more problem.

We just need something that is workable and I'm not smart enough to know what that is. I am smart enough to know what it isn't, however.

[Guest]

Funny how when people in Canada, GB and other countries need serious care they come here. I don't see to many people being rushed to Canada for treatment.

You know one of the bills in congress that's part of his plan would make it illegal for me to purchase private coverage should I loose my job? I'd be forced into government care or pay a fine of $2500 a year.

Obama was asked about it today in a town hall meeting and said he wasn't familiar with the bill. Even he doesn't know what's in the plan.

My God, how could anyone support this disaster? Maybe the same people who signed contracts on homes with out reading the fine print and then got foreclosed on?

If it wasn't so scary, It would be funny.

[Guest]

Here is a good link with some interesting facts:
http://www.heritage.org/2009/07/21/morning-bell-obama-admits-hes-not-familiar-with-house-bill/

* Approximately 103 million people would be covered under the new public plan and, as a consequence, about 83.4 million people would lose their private insurance. This would represent a 48.4 percent reduction in the number of people with private coverage.
* About 88.1 million workers would see their current private, employer-sponsored health plan go away and would be shifted to the public plan.
* Yearly premiums for the typical American with private coverage could go up by as much as $460 per privately-insured person, as a result of increased cost-shifting stemming from a public plan modeled on Medicare.


It is truly frightening that the President of the United States is pressuring Congress in an all-out media blitz to pass legislation that he flatly admits he has not read and is not familiar with. President Obama owes it to the American people to stop making promises about what his health plan will or will not do until he has read it, and can properly defend it in public, to his own supporters.

[Guest]

It doesn't matter anymore. If Obama supports it then it must be ok. No need to read anything... just sign here.

[Guest]

http://www.heritage.org/2009/07/21/morning-bell-obama-admits-hes-not-familiar-with-house-bill/ :shrug:

[Guest]

Yes indeed. :shrug:

However, for some it would seem more like. :bowdown:

Go figure...

[Guest]

That video is so right on! Every point that was made has been documented. For you doubters... just ask anybody from Canada!

You can ask me. I'm an "anybody" from Canada with a home in The Villages.

The Canadian Health Care System is fabulous. Not perfect, but I feel I'm blessed to have access to excellent and free health care. Most of the negative c*ap written here about the Canadian system is untrue.

I never have a problem getting the care or services I require .. from MRIs to Bone Density tests to Ultrasound, etc. Five years ago I was critically ill (I'm fine now). I was hospitalized for three months. I had the finest specialists and surgeons taking care of me, free.

I'm not saying the U.S. should have socialized medicine. I think a recession is a poor time to implement such a huge undertaking. But socialized medicine is working in Canada. Yes, we pay for our system with higher taxes. No argument there. But please don't denigrate the Canadian system unless you know what you're yaking about.

[Guest]

and reflects, at least in this particular incident, what happens whn Obama goes off TOTUS. The real Obama starts to show through. Not saying good, bad or indifferent...it is more real than the canned, usual prepared Obama rhetoric.

One would think on this issue there would have been some anticipation? Some preparation! Does it present an attitude?

I also found the readers comments that follow the article to be very interesting. Where were the supporting commentaries?
Hmmmmnnnn. Where are the staunch supporters of Obama and what do they have to offer in support of their man's health care proposal?

Another article this morning stated that the program would/could not go into effect until around 2018. And where will Obama be in 2018? Ten years to get the infrastructure developed, written and implemented.
We went to the moon in less time than that.
There was commentary against drilling for oil in the US to stave of foreign oil...the rhetoric from the administration was that was too long range and far out to be practical.....THE TIME FRAME BEING CRITICIZED WAS 10 YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If this legislation should happen to go forward then we will most certainly be a nation truly on a path to certain decline. With no checks and balances we should be very concerned.

As another aside has anybody seen or heard from their representatives about the impact on those of us on Medicare and supplemental insurance?

btk

[Guest]

Does this count as anyone in Canada?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2jijuj1ysw

[Guest]

Does this count as anyone in Canada?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2jijuj1ysw

Thanks for the video DK. Pajama TV is an excellent source of facts and entertainment. They are affiliated with my favorite site, Instapundit.

[Guest]

http://www.heritage.org/2009/07/21/morning-bell-obama-admits-hes-not-familiar-with-house-bill/ :shrug:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2009/07/21/obama_not_familiar_with_key_provision_in_health_ca re_bill.html

[Guest]

You can ask me. I'm an "anybody" from Canada with a home in The Villages.

The Canadian Health Care System is fabulous. Not perfect, but I feel I'm blessed to have access to excellent and free health care. Most of the negative c*ap written here about the Canadian system is untrue.

I never have a problem getting the care or services I require .. from MRIs to Bone Density tests to Ultrasound, etc. Five years ago I was critically ill (I'm fine now). I was hospitalized for three months. I had the finest specialists and surgeons taking care of me, free.

I'm not saying the U.S. should have socialized medicine. I think a recession is a poor time to implement such a huge undertaking. But socialized medicine is working in Canada. Yes, we pay for our system with higher taxes. No argument there. But please don't denigrate the Canadian system unless you know what you're yaking about.

Did any of you even hear what this lady had to say??? Guess you're too busy Obama Bashing.

[Guest]

This guy is worth listening.

http://www.youtube.com/v/iQQLGnD5baI&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1

[Guest]

http://www.ajc.com/health/democrats-divided-on-health-96628.html

[Guest]

You can ask me. I'm an "anybody" from Canada with a home in The Villages.

The Canadian Health Care System is fabulous. Not perfect, but I feel I'm blessed to have access to excellent and free health care. Most of the negative c*ap written here about the Canadian system is untrue.

I never have a problem getting the care or services I require .. from MRIs to Bone Density tests to Ultrasound, etc. Five years ago I was critically ill (I'm fine now). I was hospitalized for three months. I had the finest specialists and surgeons taking care of me, free.

I'm not saying the U.S. should have socialized medicine. I think a recession is a poor time to implement such a huge undertaking. But socialized medicine is working in Canada. Yes, we pay for our system with higher taxes. No argument there. But please don't denigrate the Canadian system unless you know what you're yaking about.I get the same feedback whenever I golf with a Canadian.

[Guest]

Did any of you even hear what this lady had to say??? Guess you're too busy Obama Bashing.

It's irrelevant. So what. I'm glad she's happy and received good care in her case. Many in Canada think their health care stinks. Both my wife and I have received stellar health care right hear in in the U.S.A and our premiums have always been affordable and the service quick for anything we needed.

Do you listen to what people have to say or do you only operate on blind Obama faith?

Unlike yourself do you really expect people just to sign on the dotted line without reading what's in the contract? People are reading it and they DON'T LIKE IT.

Hell, even Obama doesn't know what's in the contract. No different than all the pork and stimulus spending. Don't read, just sign here.

Maybe that's ok for some of you but not for me and thank God not for others.

[Guest]

You can ask me. I'm an "anybody" from Canada with a home in The Villages.

The Canadian Health Care System is fabulous. Not perfect, but I feel I'm blessed to have access to excellent and free health care. Most of the negative c*ap written here about the Canadian system is untrue.

I never have a problem getting the care or services I require .. from MRIs to Bone Density tests to Ultrasound, etc. Five years ago I was critically ill (I'm fine now). I was hospitalized for three months. I had the finest specialists and surgeons taking care of me, free.

I'm not saying the U.S. should have socialized medicine. I think a recession is a poor time to implement such a huge undertaking. But socialized medicine is working in Canada. Yes, we pay for our system with higher taxes. No argument there. But please don't denigrate the Canadian system unless you know what you're yaking about.

And the system may be the greatest thing since sliced bread in the right set of circumstances.

Let's not forget that Canada's total population is approximately 5 million less than California's and approximately 10% of the USA's. Canada and the USA are within 0.3% of the same land mass size, with over 80% of Canada's population within 100 miles of the Canada/USA border.

So, an effort in the USA to mirror Canada's social medicine system would immediately involve setting up a structure at least ten times larger than Canada's. Such an undertaking would be monstrous and not happen overnight. In fact, it may take at least as long as Canada took (1946-1961), as Canada started the system one-province-at-a-time. The logic of that is self-evident, as each province was able to learn from the successes and failures of the previous province, making the system more efficient each time. In a comparable population setting, it would be like each California county establishing a medical care system one-at-a-time, with the whole state eventually tied together.

So, do we really think we are smarter, better capable, and more efficient than our Northern Neighbors that we can just set up such a system nationally from the get-go and have it work even half-right? Common sense says start off with a small state (e.g., one of the Dakota's, Rhode Island, etc.) based on state desire to be the pilot program, give them grant money to make it work, and then expand the network state-by-state if this is the type of care we want. From a program management standpoint, anything else is doomed to be fraught with cost overruns, fraud and mismanagement. As lives are at stake, doesn't it make more sense that if we really do this, we learn from how others have done it and emulate what was considered successful?

If it took Canada 15 years to set up such a program to handle a population 90% smaller than the USA's, what makes us think we can do it with the stroke of a federal pen and the "wisdom" of Congress? Talk about arrogance!

[Guest]

Haven't we in fact already tried it in one state?

Mass. healthcare reform is failing us.

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2009/03/02/mass_healthcare_reform_is_failing_us/

[Guest]

It really goes back to one simple FACT.

Social Security is bankrupt.
Medicare is bankrupt.
The government itself is basically bankrupt.
Freddie and Fannie are a total disaster.
Our public schools, most of them are a total disaster.
Mass. healthcare reform is a disaster.
The list goes on and on.

So tell me folks. What on God’s green earth makes you think government can effectively improve on and run our healthcare system?

Add cap-n-tax to this mess and you have an epic financial disaster for all but the most rich in this country. And when we go after what they have left they will simply hunker down and sit on their money. That means less jobs. At almost 10% unemployment and still climbing are less jobs really a good thing?

Think people think.

[Guest]

And the system may be the greatest thing since sliced bread in the right set of circumstances.

Let's not forget that Canada's total population is approximately 5 million less than California's and approximately 10% of the USA's. Canada and the USA are within 0.3% of the same land mass size, with over 80% of Canada's population within 100 miles of the Canada/USA border.

So, an effort in the USA to mirror Canada's social medicine system would immediately involve setting up a structure at least ten times larger than Canada's. Such an undertaking would be monstrous and not happen overnight. In fact, it may take at least as long as Canada took (1946-1961), as Canada started the system one-province-at-a-time. The logic of that is self-evident, as each province was able to learn from the successes and failures of the previous province, making the system more efficient each time. In a comparable population setting, it would be like each California county establishing a medical care system one-at-a-time, with the whole state eventually tied together.

So, do we really think we are smarter, better capable, and more efficient than our Northern Neighbors that we can just set up such a system nationally from the get-go and have it work even half-right? Common sense says start off with a small state (e.g., one of the Dakota's, Rhode Island, etc.) based on state desire to be the pilot program, give them grant money to make it work, and then expand the network state-by-state if this is the type of care we want. From a program management standpoint, anything else is doomed to be fraught with cost overruns, fraud and mismanagement. As lives are at stake, doesn't it make more sense that if we really do this, we learn from how others have done it and emulate what was considered successful?

If it took Canada 15 years to set up such a program to handle a population 90% smaller than the USA's, what makes us think we can do it with the stroke of a federal pen and the "wisdom" of Congress? Talk about arrogance!

Very good,Steve. Again you bring valuable information to to light, especially to this abyss called socialized health care. I think if information like this was dispersed through media sources, people would realize that these proposals are not some kind of magic solutions.

[Guest]

Haven't we in fact already tried it in one state?

Mass. healthcare reform is failing us.

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2009/03/02/mass_healthcare_reform_is_failing_us/

We must let Congress know we want improved access to affordable healthcare for all, not more expensive private health insurance we can't afford to use when we are sick. Massachusetts healthcare reform fails on all five Institute of Medicine criteria. Congress should not make it a model for the nation.

Susanne L. King, M.D., practices in Berkshire County.

Amen.......:agree:

[Guest]

Did any of you even hear what this lady had to say??? Guess you're too busy Obama Bashing.


Interesting comment on "Obama Bashing" !

I can understand how you feel that way..honestly; what is interesting that you could not understand when other folks complained about "Bush bashing" (which was VERY VERY PERSONAL) !!!

[Guest]

It's irrelevant. So what. I'm glad she's happy and received good care in her case. Many in Canada think their health care stinks.

I was responding to Ooper's post "ask anyone from Canada". I've had 50 years experience with the system. I'll just bet I know more Canadians than Ooper and dklassen, and most are very satisfied with their health care. If I'd bashed Canada's healthcare system, I don't think dlassen would have dismissed my comments as irrelevant!

Having said that, I do agree that this is not the time to consider implementing such a huge and expensive change in the US. I sincerely doubt that most Americans will readily accept the high taxes necessary to support such a system, especially in today's economic climate.

[Guest]

I wouldn't be surprised if this health care bill dies a quiet death, and goes away for now, just like the last one (93?). Most agree that health care and Social Security both need change/reform, but both are too politically sensistive to get much done. Maybe next time around?

[Guest]

It really goes back to one simple FACT.

Social Security is bankrupt.
Medicare is bankrupt.
The government itself is basically bankrupt.
Freddie and Fannie are a total disaster.
Our public schools, most of them are a total disaster.
Mass. healthcare reform is a disaster.
The list goes on and on.

So tell me folks. What on God’s green earth makes you think government can effectively improve on and run our healthcare system?

Add cap-n-tax to this mess and you have an epic financial disaster for all but the most rich in this country. And when we go after what they have left they will simply hunker down and sit on their money. That means less jobs. At almost 10% unemployment and still climbing are less jobs really a good thing?

Think people think.

All very good points All along we are being told none of this will raise our taxes. Only for the very rich. :agree::agree:

[Guest]

I was responding to Ooper's post "ask anyone from Canada". I've had 50 years experience with the system. I'll just bet I know more Canadians than Ooper and dklassen, and most are very satisfied with their health care. If I'd bashed Canada's healthcare system, I don't think dlassen would have dismissed my comments as irrelevant!


I wonder if maybe some of the provinces may be better then others. I learned today that it took 15 years and at province at a time, to get the system complete. Do you enjoy the health care, here in the States??

[Guest]

Did any of you even hear what this lady had to say??? Guess you're too busy Obama Bashing.

Am I to assume that you do not approve of bashing Presidents?;)

[Guest]

I wonder if maybe some of the provinces may be better then others. I learned today that it took 15 years and at province at a time, to get the system complete. Do you enjoy the health care, here in the States??

It is true that people living near Canadian cities are able to obtain much better health care options than people living in isolated areas. Doctors don't want to practice in remote areas. But that would be true with any type of medicine.

As a Canadian, the US government only allows us to stay in the US for 182 days per year. So I don't use US health care. I wait until I get back to Canada where it is free.

And by the way, it is a popular misconception that Canadians get free drugs. We don't.

[Guest]

All very good points All along we are being told none of this will raise our taxes. Only for the very rich. :agree::agree:

:agree::agree::agree: A smaller government, less taxes system, is what our country needs!

[Guest]

As a Canadian, the US government only allows us to stay in the US for 182 days per year. So I don't use US health care. I wait until I get back to Canada where it is free.

.

I saw the tax rates in Canada...free is not what I would call it.

[Guest]

hehe

[Guest]

I saw the tax rates in Canada...free is not what I would call it.
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Keedy, I did refer to the Canadian health care system as free, and it is free to those who need it. However, obviously the funds for all government initiatives come from taxpayers. In a previous post, I mentioned the high taxes necessary to fund such a system. Since you obviously overlooked it, I'll repeat it here:


"Having said that, I do agree that this is not the time to consider implementing such a huge and expensive change in the US. I sincerely doubt that most Americans will readily accept the high taxes necessary to support such a system, especially in today's economic climate."

[Guest]

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Keedy, I did refer to the Canadian health care system as free, and it is free to those who need it. However, obviously the funds for all government initiatives come from taxpayers. In a previous post, I mentioned the high taxes necessary to fund such a system. Since you obviously overlooked it, I'll repeat it here:


"Having said that, I do agree that this is not the time to consider implementing such a huge and expensive change in the US. I sincerely doubt that most Americans will readily accept the high taxes necessary to support such a system, especially in today's economic climate."

Semantics...semantics...Nothing is free.....nothing.....How many people go up to Canada to get your free health care??

[Guest]

I was responding to Ooper's post "ask anyone from Canada". I've had 50 years experience with the system. I'll just bet I know more Canadians than Ooper and dklassen, and most are very satisfied with their health care.

I am just talking from MY experience with Canadians. I worked for a Canadian based company in upstate NY for over 30 years. I had a lot of interaction with Canadians living in Ontario. The subject of their health care system came up in conversation quite often and I never.... let me repeat... NEVER heard any good comments about it. The biggest complaint was the unbelievable length of time to have services performed. But I am not going to change anybody's mind.... y'all who think this is a good thing... fine. I just hope you never have a serious illness that needs immediate attention.

[Guest]

A guy on the radio this morning was telling his story. His wife just had a baby here in the U.S.A. Everything went well except she ended up have a c-section. She was out in thee days and all were doing fine. Almost at the same time their best friends who lived in Toronto were having a baby. Also after a few minor complications they left her on the delivery table for 70 hours putting off the sugary for natural birth. They would not do the c-section. Too expensive and deemed not necessary. It tore her up so bad inside that she is now flying to the U.S.A to have surgery to repair the damage. There's your Canadian government health care.

But hey, what you expect for "free" right?

[Guest]

Well, it only stands to reason...if you add 50 million to a system that doesn't add any doctors, something has to give.
Rationing is the only solution. For example, if an older person needs a knee replacement he will be entered into the triage software that will determine statistically where on the list he will land. Say a 50 year old and a 75 year old are on the list. The software will determine that statistically the 50 year old has more years to live and work. He goes up the list and the 75 year old goes further down. The 75 year old will be issued a cane and a bottle of aspirins and told to go home and wait.
Now, further down the road, the pool of doctors start getting a little worn around the edges. Maybe more work and less pay. Maybe gets frustrated to see the older people suffer. Word gets out about the pay and frustration and good people do not see the incentive to go to medical school. The government will have to compensate and recruit new doctors from somewhere. Where will they come from? The best and brightest have gone into other careers that will reward them with more incentives like money and job satisfaction.
It gets to be a slippery slope, indeed.

[Guest]

What has been a fallout from national health programs elsewhere is the dramatic increase in medical tourism. There are several firms which target their marketing (successfully, too) towards the more affluent and/or more desperate who don't want to wait the lengthy times for certain procedures, or who have been turned down (excuse me, subject to rationing) for a particular procedure under whatever selection criteria is in place.

Medical tourism now is estimated (conservatively) at well over $20Billion per year, with true numbers tough to get due to the scope and particular countries involved. Just google "medical tourism" and view the various sites on places, statistics, FAQs and the like.

The multi-millionaires (Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Clinton and a number of others) truly don't care about the American health system, as it does not apply to them. To them, it is an academic exercise of which they will never experience in a practical manner. They just get on a private jet, go to the country of choice, and have nipped/tucked/sliced/replaced whatever they want. Do you really think any of the folk clamoring for "health care reform" will ever pay a co-pay, have to show a health insurance card to a provider, or stand in line at a pharmacy? Will they ever experience health care rationing?

If you have a couple of hours, review H.R. 3200. Links to it are everywhere. While there is much that is confusing, there will be plenty of sections which will be obvious on how much money is at stake, how the new system will take a large fortune to set up (who makes money on that?), and how you really aren't going to have an effective way to argue any decision made by the selection-gods.

So, start saving those dimes and nickels and frequent flier miles, and be ready for medical tourism trips to Thailand, Turkey, Cuba, Singapore, and a few other spots. For those of us who have already been warned by the Administration and Congress that we wil be the first to experience rationing, the potential to be a medical tourist is quite real.

It won't be long before some enterprising medical tourism company sets up an office in TV. If this bill passes, that company will have a lot of business.

[Guest]

Semantics...semantics...Nothing is free.....nothing.....How many people go up to Canada to get your free health care??I suspect the Canadian system is not available to non-Canadians.

Dont fool yourself however, I am aware of US citizens who jet off to other countries (especially India) to have expensive surgical procedures done at a fraction of the cost here. I knew a pt who jetted off somewhere for a gastric bypass operation.... was picked up at the airport in a limo, put up in a luxury hotel with pvt nurses, had the surgery, did well, vacationed for a week, flew home and still saved money.

[Guest]

A guy on the radio this morning was telling his story. His wife just had a baby here in the U.S.A. Everything went well except she ended up have a c-section. She was out in thee days and all were doing fine. Almost at the same time their best friends who lived in Toronto were having a baby.

I'm sure I could find many horror stories in the USA of people dying in hospitals from patient neglect, incorrect medications, doctors' errors. So .... why try to demonize Canadian socialized medicine to make your point? How very strange that most people in Canada rate their health care system very highly.

The valid point is not that socialized medicine is bad. It isn't. But the current economic climate in the US obviously means that it isn't the right time to innovate a hugely expensive system such as socialized medicine.

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I suspect the Canadian system is not available to non-Canadians.

Dont fool yourself however, I am aware of US citizens who jet off to other countries (especially India) to have expensive surgical procedures done at a fraction of the cost here. I knew a pt who jetted off somewhere for a gastric bypass operation.... was picked up at the airport in a limo, put up in a luxury hotel with pvt nurses, had the surgery, did well, vacationed for a week, flew home and still saved money.

It sounds like alot of people will be cashing in their IRA's for surgical procedures and forgoing the other pleasures of retirement because there will be no money left for discretionary spending.

[Guest]

I'm sure I could find many horror stories in the USA of people dying in hospitals from patient neglect, incorrect medications, doctors' errors. So .... why try to demonize Canadian socialized medicine to make your point? How very strange that most people in Canada rate their health care system very highly.

The valid point is not that socialized medicine is bad. It isn't. But the current economic climate in the US obviously means that it isn't the right time to innovate a hugely expensive system such as socialized medicine.

Agree!

The Canadian system has had the opportunity for 15 years of set-up and 50 more years of maturing, and supports 31 million people. So, comparing it to a throw-it-together-now system the Administration touts as immediately necessary for 306 million people during a period of close-to-10% unemployment and a major economic drop is unfair and illogical.

We can all find horror stories within every type of system. The bottom line is indeed - can we afford the set-up costs and the maturation period for any new system at this time?

When an economy is healthy, we seem to be able to afford anything. When we are up to our butts iin national debt, and the economy still heading downward, can we really afford any kind of new program - health care, travel to Jupiter, search for the Loch Ness Monster or cap-and-trade?

For those who would like a health care system similar to the Canadian program, a little research is warranted into how the Canadians did it, the problems they encountered, are there any cultural or economic differences between Canada and the USA which apply.

For those from Canada and the UK who reside part-time in TV, your insight into how you employ your health care system is appreciated. You have the advantage of finding it necessary to experience both the US "system" and your national one. It would not surprise me that you have developed strategies to take advantage of both, and the why and how of that helps us who have not experienced government-managed health care understand it.

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the level of coverage and choices we current enjoy.

So to solve the problem of the few, disruption of the satisfied many gets trampled. As has been so many times, the medical system is in need of improvement. It is not so bad that it has to be scrapped and start over.

I believe he is working on staying viable as a 2012 candidate, hence the understanding of cost is no object nor is the satisfaction or consideration of the majority....in my opinion.

btk

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He is doomed in 2012 just like congress is in 2010. Just watch, he is a one term disaster. People are catching on to him and don't like what they see.

Our health care is the best in the world, people come here when they want the best. Our health care system isn't broken but it needs improving.

It DOES NOT need to be totally dismantled and taken over by the government. BO is lying to the American people.

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He is doomed in 2012 just like congress is in 2010. Just watch, he is a one term disaster. People are catching on to him and don't like what they see.

Our health care is the best in the world, people come here when they want the best. Our health care system isn't broken but it needs improving.

It DOES NOT need to be totally dismantled and taken over by the government. BO is lying to the American people.

A bit premature, IMO, to call the 2012 election.

Agree that there will be new faces in congress in 2010. The bad news is, new faces same results or lack thereof. No reason to think otherwise. It's a revolving door. Republican, Democrat makes no difference these days.

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He is doomed in 2012 just like congress is in 2010. Just watch, he is a one term disaster. People are catching on to him and don't like what they see.



Before you put too much hope in the above, remember H. L. Mencken.

"Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people"




`

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A bit premature, IMO, to call the 2012 election.

Agree that there will be new faces in congress in 2010. The bad news is, new faces same results or lack thereof. No reason to think otherwise. It's a revolving door. Republican, Democrat makes no difference these days.

The only way Obama loses in 2012 is getting out the older white voter as was shown in the 2008 election when you study the stats to determine why !

There are so many organizations and sub organizations already working on registration and voters, and he will carry some voter types no matter what he does, so it will require a huge get out the vote for him to lose.

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Yea, by 2012 Acorn will be so organized and flush with money that they will have armed thugs at every voting arena. :o I say this with my tongue firmly planted in my cheek....but you never know...do you?:confused:

[Guest]

He'll loose. His numbers are dropping like a rock and even some of the people I work with that voted for him are getting pretty disgusted and certainly aren't buying into his health care lies and deception.

The economy continues to get worse as more people are loosing jobs. His schemes aren't working, they won't work and many knew they wouldn't work. Nothing in his plan is creating jobs and never were designed to create jobs.

No jobs, no recovery. No recovery, no second term. Add on Cap-n-tax, socialized health care and quadrupling of our debt and he can kiss is second term good bye.

Unless.... he succeeds in pounding the final nail in our private sector economy so folks have no choice but to crawl to him for their survival. Then maybe he'll win. People are waking up though and they don't like what they see.

Did you see the town hall meeting on health care with congressman Carnahan(d) defending Obama care? The crowd practically ran him out of the room. One guy at the end yelled "if it's so good, why doesn't congress use the same plan the rest of us will be forced into." Good question.

People don't want this and yet King Obama is still trying to ram it down our throats. 78% are happy with their current health care. It ain't gonna fly. Wait till the congressmen get home to their own town hall meetings. We'll see if their tune changes. All they care about is getting reelected and they will turn on BO in a heartbeat, especially the blue dogs which already pretty much gave him the shaft today.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CyZhOirPTU&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Frightwingvideo.com%2F&feature=player_embedded

[Guest]

Yea, by 2012 Acorn will be so organized and flush with money that they will have armed thugs at every voting arena. :o I say this with my tongue firmly planted in my cheek....but you never know...do you?:confused:

I saw the other day on TV that Acorn has as many as 361 organizations that are under their jurisdiction. Can that be correct ? We are in trouble.:cus::cus: