What consititutes a "business" in The Villages

[Talk Host]

We have been recently informed by the Deed Compliance office that we can't use our home address to receive TOTV related mail. I guess, they feel that it implies that we are conducting business from our home. As a matter of convenience, we listed our home address for mail that we get for Talk of The Villages through our corporate name. The compliance office has told us that we can't do that and we have to move the address out of the Villages. We can't do business inside the Villages. IN our case, our server is in Canada, the business office is in Pa. and the IT office is is Tennessee. We just get our mail here. There is absolutely no vehicular traffic at our house, no meetings, no transactions, just a piece of mail now and then. 90% of our correspondence is by email.

It was indicated to us that there is a "crack down" under way.

One has to wonder how many business are actually run in the Villages and when will the Compliance Office lower the boom on people who are picking up a few extra bucks from home. I'm guessing there are thousands of people using ebay, doing taxes, selling merchandise, cutting lawns, installing carpet, house watching and so on.

We were turned in by one of our members. If a neighbor turns you in, you gotta stop conducting your business, I guess.

It kinda gives me the willies to think that we have to be careful about who knows what, for fear they will report you to the authorities. Any thoughts?

And, yes, I know it is spelled out in the deed restrictions. My only defense was that the business is conducted elsewhere and that we just get mail our here. I was told that using my home address to get my business mail is forbidden.

[SABRMnLgs]

I said it once and I'll say it again a hundred times, "Don't ask .... "I won't tell". Same problem regarding the door installations problem. Seems like there is an "obligatory snitch" in every village.
I again mentioned it when I stated, "Soon these bozos will be telling you what to eat and what kind of toilet paper to buy!" Keep laughing folks ....... cause soon the joke will be on you.
A man's home is his castle. What he does on it or in it should be his or her own business. (literally speaking).

Some busybody is going to come to my house and tell me I can't make or sell fishing lures, paint a door, etc..............? First time that happens we are outta here and everyone will know why. I am so sick of hearing what we can and cannot do.

Isn't bad enough you have to ask permission like a school kid to fix your own home, now they want to tell you what you can and cannot do inside your home! This should rate a full page expose' in the local fishwrap.

[BogeyBoy]

I am curious on how they phrased the restriction on receiving TOTV mail at your address. I doubt that TV, even with any political clout they may have, can tell you what mail you can and cannot receive at your home. I would guess that there are thousands of people that still own businesses elsewhere and receive mail here for that business. Or even if they sold the business paperwork could continue to arrive for quite a while.

Part of the reason I am dwelling on the mail issue is that I am a retired manager from the postal service. If you say you want to receive mail addressed to GGG Hoozzywatisheimer, Inc., we are required to deliver it. The only thing that stops that is; 1) you refuse the mail, 2) there is a dispute over who is entitled to the mail and a subsequent court order to stop delivery. (Usually this happens in a divorce or when a business splits up and everyone wants the checks, no one wants the bills.)

I guess one would have to interpret the intent of deed restriction. Is it to stop any and all business in a home? I answer the phone and it is one of my former employees with a technical issue - is that business? Because of my expertise I collect $100 for writing an opinion on the benefits of mechanizing postal operations in Oxford - is that business? I sell things on ebay - is that business? My opinion is that anything you do via the mail, or internet, or non-traffic producing business is okay.

On the other hand, I think anything that does create traffic is not okay, like putting a sign out front saying "computers fixed here". Okay, you don't need the sign, but if people are dragging their computers to your house - I say no.

If a villager cuts lawns what difference does it make if he comes to your house or someone from Wildwood does the job?

So, for my 2 cents TOTV doesn't create traffic anywhere except on a screen in your home - it is okay.

One last thing on the subject of mail - how would TV know what mail you are receiving at your home?

[Bogie Shooter]

I think the mail issue is rather petty. Receiving TOTV mail does not infringe on anyone. However, running a beauty salon, barber shop, selling anything out of your garage, etc., to me is running a business. This attracts traffic and does violate the covenents. Another example I just saw advertised in the Daily Sun, where someone has opened an EBay drop off with an address in TV. How soon will the folks in that neighborhood get fed up with a stream of people dropping off items to be sold on EBay.
Common sense should prevail on the part of residents AND the Villages.

[BogeyBoy]

I think the mail issue is rather petty. Receiving TOTV mail does not infringe on anyone. However, running a beauty salon, barber shop, selling anything out of your garage, etc., to me is running a business. This attracts traffic and does violate the covenents. Another example I just saw advertised in the Daily Sun, where someone has opened an EBay drop off with an address in TV. How soon will the folks in that neighborhood get fed up with a stream of people dropping off items to be sold on EBay.
Common sense should prevail on the part of residents AND the Villages.

I had actually considered doing the eBay business but one of my prime considerations was storing the stuff, I figured you would have to rent some space somewhere. Never did my business plan include people dropping stuff at my home.

[Talk Host]

When we moved to Florida, we switched our corporation From New York to Florida. We never intended to have a Florida office. When we filled out the Florida paperwork, we used our home address as a matter of convenience. That's is probably the beef that they have with me. It's complicated because we have our business and advertising office in Pennsylvania. Absolutely none of the administrative work is done in my residence.

If I had listed a PO box in Oxford, I'm thinking it would be different. It doesn't matter to The Villages if business is actually conducted or not at your house, you just can have a mailing address that is associated with business.

If you have a check written to "Fred's Lawn Mowing Service, 123 Morse Blvd, The Villages, Florida," you are in violation. To me, there is a giant leap between receiving mail at your house and actually conducting business at your house. But then, how could they know the difference.

Restraint of Trade refers to activity that obstructs, limits, or eliminates market competition. Restraints may affect particular occupations, industries, or commercial transactions. Restraints are prohibited by the first section of the Sherman Antitrust Act of 1890 (Title 15 of the United States Code), the main source of American antitrust law, which forbids "every contract, combination in the form of trust or otherwise, or conspiracy, in restraint of trade or commerce among the several States, or with foreign nations." The state attorneys general, under the direction of the federal Attorney General, have primary enforcement duties.

Restraint of trade takes a multitude of forms, ranging from private activity (e.g., contracts between two parties) to government regulation (e.g., licensing requirements or quotas). Common practices include noncompetition clauses, exclusive dealing arrangements, and price discrimination.

[dillywho]

If you cannot conduct "business" from your home, then why does the Villages owned Daily Sun accept classified ads from persons doing "business"? Seems kinda like a double standard to me. At least when you are partaking of Villagers in business, you don't stand much of a chance of being taken for a ride, or worse yet, broken into later. As for someone reporting you, don't they have anything better to do than mind everyone else's business? I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't have the time to worry about what my neighbor does or doesn't do. I have all I can do to take care of my own stuff. What do they do....tote around a copy of the covenants and restrictions to be sure their neighbors, etc. are in compliance? Get a life!!

[villages07]

I am an advocate for logical, reasonable deed restrictions (aka convenants). But the interpretation reported by TH about commercial businesses (as well as some of the pet owner concerns) begs the question. If a restriction does not make sense, what is the process to get it changed?

From the general CDD website on deed restrictions:

Residential Use Restrictions: Property must be devoted only to single-family residential use. Commercial and or professional activities may not be conducted in any home or on any property.

For my specific neighborhood:

"Properties within the subdivision are intended for residential use and no commercial, professional, or similar activity requiring either maintaining an inventory, equipment, or customer/client visits may be conducted in a home or on a homesite"

There's an obvious disconnect between these two statements and TH may have an entirely different provision in his covenants. The language for my neighborhood makes a lot more sense and would not mean that TH/TOTV is violating the covenants.


To show how absurd some of the restrictions are...here's another one from my neighborhood:

"All owners shall notify the Developer when leaving their property for more than a 7 day period and shall simultaneously advise the Developer of their tentative return date"

Hey Gary... heading to the beach...see ya next month. Yeah, right.

[Talk Host]

I asked, simply as a matter of curiosity, what action can be taken by The Villages against a homeowner who refuses to comply and continues to conduct business. The answer I got, from the person who called me, was, "I don't really know. It would likely be turned over to the county."

Now, I ask you, what earthly concern is it of the county if a deed restriction in The Villages is being violated. I've been wrong before (I think) but I suspect the county doesn't have any enforcement authority.

BTW, I plan to go about the annoying process of changing the address on my business mail to an address on the outside. I don't want any trouble. We have 10,000 members and I don't want to jeopardize your forum just to defend a principal. TOTV has always tried to be a good neighbor and a good source of information for residents and would be residents.

[villages07]

TH...not to be splitting hairs here...but, aren't you in the process of selling your Villages house and moving to a new community? So, it will be a moot point soon enough. Doesn't seem like it's worthwhile to make an extra set of mail changes.

But, that still doesn't detract from the silliness of the interpretation you got from deed compliance. Have you checked the specific wording of your covenants? If yours are like mine, you've done nothing wrong.

[Talk Host]

TH...not to be splitting hairs here...but, aren't you in the process of selling your Villages house and moving to a new community? So, it will be a moot point soon enough. Doesn't seem like it's worthwhile to make an extra set of mail changes.

But, that still doesn't detract from the silliness of the interpretation you got from deed compliance. Have you checked the specific wording of your covenants? If yours are like mine, you've done nothing wrong.

You are correct that my future plans don't detract from the actions of the Deed Compliance office. It may well be a moot point for me, but what about the other 5,000 offenders who have yet to be caught. What if I was staying here for the next 75 years? Sooner or later, I would be forced to change the address.

[Lone Traveller]

I've read thing on this forum that imply TV is not happy having TOTV around. Could this just be an attempt to shut us down?

[villages07]

Yeah, but.... if you'll re-read the excerpt from the deed restrictions for my section/unit of The Villages, I think you'll see that what you're doing (and most of the other home-based businesses) is perfectly allowable ... at least, how I read it. I think this is the spirit of the restriction... to forbid home-based businesses that involve client visits and movement of a lot of merchandise in and out that would/could be disruptive to neighbors.

The real issue is...do all covenants read like mine? If not, how to get them in sync. If they all do say the same thing, then whomever you spoke with in Deed Compliance was mistaken and you could escalate the issue to get a clearer ruling.


From my deed restrictions (circa July 2006):


"Properties within the subdivision are intended for residential use and no commercial, professional, or similar activity requiring either maintaining an inventory, equipment, or customer/client visits may be conducted in a home or on a homesite"

Anecdote: I know someone who was cutting hair in her home with numerous client visitors; a disgruntled customer/neighbor 'turned her in'; the deed compliance person advised her that she could no longer operate out of her home but could travel to her clients and continue her business. She said deed compliance tried to work with her and was not heavy-handed.

[BogeyBoy]

villages07 - you are right on with getting the deed restrictions in sync.

The following link just lists the deed restrictions in Sumter County - I looked through a few a they definitely vary:

http://www.districtgov.org/vccdd/deedrestrict-SumterCounty.asp

[chacam]

Seems like I recall that the CDD has no enforcement powers. These are not statutes we are talking about.

In case of a violation of a covenant or restriction, the CDD or the developer could sue the perp, or any person could sue the CDD for allowing the violation to exist. A judge is the one who decides, not the CDD.

[champion6]

We have been recently informed by the Deed Compliance office that we can't use our home address to receive TOTV related mail. I guess, they feel that it implies that we are conducting business from our home.
<snip>
We were turned in by one of our members.Hmmm... TH, how on earth would a member know the mailing address that you are using for TOTV business correspondence?

[Talk Host]

Hmmm... TH, how on earth would a member know the mailing address that you are using for TOTV business correspondence?

It's possible to find out any information from public records.

[Talk Host]

I've read thing on this forum that imply TV is not happy having TOTV around. Could this just be an attempt to shut us down?

I really don't believe that to be the case.

[Becky]

I guess I can't figure out how someone knows what mail you receive. Don't think my neighbors or anyone else around here knows what mail I receive. Seems to me BogeyBoy is right about this. Who cares what mail someone gets?

Becky

[Talk Host]

I guess I can't figure out how someone knows what mail you receive. Don't think my neighbors or anyone else around here knows what mail I receive. Seems to me BogeyBoy is right about this. Who cares what mail someone gets?

Becky

If you check the public records for coporations, LLCs or any other type of business, you can learn the mailing address of the company and the principals of the business.

In regard to "who cares what mail someone gets, " a person makes it their business to find out this type of information when they set out to cause as much trouble, heartache and problem for somebody as they can possibly muster. The same type of person who sends over 60 threatening emails. The same type of person who promises the police that they will discontinue the "cyber stalking" immediately, then continue the next day. There are all kinds of people out there with all kinds of motivations. We all have our crosses to bear.

[REH7380]

There are a couple of questions I would have if I were you. (a) Is this selective enforcement since others are conducting business in the villages (b) how would anyone know what mail you receive at your home without an invasion of privacy and (c) does receiving mail alone necessarily constitute doing business.
A simple call to an Attorney asking for a legal position seems to be in order.

[Becky]

Sounds like someone needs to MTOB (their own)! Who has time to check all that info and why do they care? They need serious help. I'd be inclined to check with an attorney for the stalking! Scary!

Becky

[rshoffer]

I am sure this places me in a minority but there are a number of things about living in TV that I do not like. (ok, I'm ready for the "love it or leave it responses"). This big brother, paternalistic mentality is repugnant.

[rshoffer]

Hmmm... TH, how on earth would a member know the mailing address that you are using for TOTV business correspondence?Open up a post office box in Lady Lake.

[Talk Host]

Open up a post office box in Lady Lake.

Funny, you should say that. We did have a post office box in Lady Lake (for six years) to avoid just this issue. We closed it three weeks ago and forwarded our mail to this address in preparation for our move. This all happened inside the past three weeks.

[rshoffer]

Funny, you should say that. We did have a post office box in Lady Lake (for six years) to avoid just this issue. We closed in three weeks ago and forwarded our mail to this address in preparation for our move. This all happened inside the past three weeks.Sounds like you have a number of good reasons to move.

[Keedy]

Talk Host...You are moving away from The Villages? It make me sad to see good people leave. It is still my number one wish to move down south and probably to TV. Are you moving far away?

[Talk Host]

Talk Host...You are moving away from The Villages? It make me sad to see good people leave. It is still my number one wish to move down south and probably to TV. Are you moving far away?

We are building a new house East of Tampa. We wanted to be a little further south and a little warmer winter climate with a larger piece of property.

[diskman]

We have been recently informed by the Deed Compliance office that we can't use our home address to receive TOTV related mail. I guess, they feel that it implies that we are conducting business from our home. As a matter of convenience, we listed our home address for mail that we get for Talk of The Villages through our corporate name. The compliance office has told us that we can't do that and we have to move the address out of the Villages. We can't do business inside the Villages. IN our case, our server is in Canada, the business office is in Pa. and the IT office is is Tennessee. We just get our mail here. There is absolutely no vehicular traffic at our house, no meetings, no transactions, just a piece of mail now and then. 90% of our correspondence is by email.

It was indicated to us that there is a "crack down" under way.

One has to wonder how many business are actually run in the Villages and when will the Compliance Office lower the boom on people who are picking up a few extra bucks from home. I'm guessing there are thousands of people using ebay, doing taxes, selling merchandise, cutting lawns, installing carpet, house watching and so on.

We were turned in by one of our members. If a neighbor turns you in, you gotta stop conducting your business, I guess.

It kinda gives me the willies to think that we have to be careful about who knows what, for fear they will report you to the authorities. Any thoughts?

And, yes, I know it is spelled out in the deed restrictions. My only defense was that the business is conducted elsewhere and that we just get mail our here. I was told that using my home address to get my business mail is forbidden.

Here's what you do. You go to one of those mail box places and get a box, then for a small service charge they will put your mail in another envelope and send it to your personal address addressed to Jan.:pepper2:

[BobKat1]

We are building a new house East of Tampa. We wanted to be a little further south and a little warmer winter climate with a larger piece of property.

You lucky guy. We have some good friends who built a beautiful home in the Weeki Wachee/Brooksville area a couple of years ago and they love it. They looked at all of the communities in the Central FL and decided they wanted a bigger property, and liked the fact that their housing $$'s went a little further too.

[Jeff Bieberfeld]

ok, you cannot receive any 'business-related' mail in the villages? i get free subscriptions for many trade magazines, as i enjoy keeping informed as to what is going on in all sorts of businesses. so, i will no longer be able to receive these at my villages home? since when can deliveries by the us postal service be denied based on content or subject matter? ( i guess that is why pornography can be delivered anywhere, not that i have ever received any)
am curious, since there are many home-based web businesses that require nothing but email access and occasional mail delivery. what about someone who sells insurance, and only visits clients at the clients location? it seems to me that this is confusing more and more.
jeff

[BogeyBoy]

Here's what you do. You go to one of those mail box places and get a box, then for a small service charge they will put your mail in another envelope and send it to your personal address addressed to Jan.:pepper2:

I say that's not necessary and a waste of money. Just receiving mail - and we're jumping through all these hoops? (Unless I am missing something TH says he is just receiving some business mail at his residence. Now if he is getting shipments of widgets and letting everyone on TOTV come over and buy them, that's something different.)

Another issue that's been missed here - the sender is who controls where the mail goes. He pays the postage, can endorse it various ways, and can get it back if it isn't delivered. (I know, I know - if you are giving out your address for your business the logical thing for the mailer to do is mail it there.)

Where do you draw the line? Let's say you're a Doctor who lives in TV. Your phone rings and it's Charlie Crist asking about his sore throat. Sorry Charlie, call my office. The Doctor gets a magazine in the mail about medical procedures and tells his neighbor to come over and discuss a possible surgery. Send in the stormtroopers.

[allairenjadea]

I guess since we send payment for our lawn cutting service to an address in The Villages this person would also be in non-compliance.

[BobKat1]

How about realtors (both MLS and TV Realty) who live in TV? Seems like they might also receive mail and maybe see a client now and then at their home.

[Keedy]

We are building a new house East of Tampa. We wanted to be a little further south and a little warmer winter climate with a larger piece of property.

Well, good luck. I had to laugh when you said "warmer climate" as we have had the coldest few years that I can remember. Most of July has been in the high 60's-to low 70's. I can't take much more of this global warming. LOL

[marianne237]

How about folks who have craft or art items they produce in their homes and then sell at the craft fairs...does that qualify as a home based business? What do the "no-no police" do then?

[TrudyM]

How about folks who have craft or art items they produce in their homes and then sell at the craft fairs...does that qualify as a home based business? What do the "no-no police" do then?

I sure hope not, people seem to like my craftsman style stainglass lamps and have started buying them from word of mouth. I thought that might be a good, keep busy, not feel useless thing to do in retirement. Does this mean that a glass kiln and glass wire saw can't be in my garage if we move there. Guess I might have to look elsewhere.

[2 Oldcrabs]

If the rules were followed exactly, half the Village Realtors could not conduct business from their homes. Let them get a court order to inspect your mail !
GOOD LUCK

[beady]

Oddly enough, both my husband and I receive business mail here at our address. Our name appears first and then the business name. That includes professional publications. Perhaps the personal name being first is the key.

Frankly, it sounds like someone is trying to make trouble for TH, sad that.

[elevatorman]

Don't some of the social clubs operate as a business. Can of worms?

[downeaster]

I am in deep do-do. I am in the process of renewing my Real Estate Brokers license (inactive, but I like to keep it alive). The Division of Real Estate will mail the license to my HOME address. I will be on my guard when I pick it up at the postal facility. If there are any strangers lurking about I will come back later when the coast is clear.
That was said with tongue in cheek.
I am a strong believer in having restrictions and enforcing them evenly. However, this is over the top. TH's activity has absolutely no impact on anyone. It can hardly be considered an activity as he is on the receiving end of the mail stream.
Maybe those of us who know of Villages real estate sales persons should arbitrarily report them. If there were enough complaints of this nature they may see how ridiculous their position is.
There are enough types of businesses being conducted in The Villages that are in blatant noncompliance to keep them busy. (What about those Mary Kay parties, travel clubs, hair dressers, golf ball sales, golf club making, ad infinitum)?

[chelsea24]

This is all very strange. We get corporate mail all the time. But I did find it very interesting that when we moved here two years ago, I went to the Wildwood Post Office to open up a separate post office box. Although we do not do business from our house, I wanted a P.O. Box during the transition of many things. Long story short, the Wildwood Post Office said I would have to get permission from The Villages to open up a separate box there. Isn't that odd??? Or am I missing something. :shrug: Kind of creepy!

[dillywho]

:confused:This is all very strange. We get corporate mail all the time. But I did find it very interesting that when we moved here two years ago, I went to the Wildwood Post Office to open up a separate post office box. Although we do not do business from our house, I wanted a P.O. Box during the transition of many things. Long story short, the Wildwood Post Office said I would have to get permission from The Villages to open up a separate box there. Isn't that odd??? Or am I missing something. :shrug: Kind of creepy!

I guess we both must be missing something. Since when can The Villages dictate rules for a federal business? The US Post Office is just what it says, "US" , which equals/means federal. Me thinks someone working there must have been misinformed somewhere down the line. By the way, messing with the US mail is also a federal offense.

[Cassie325]

A few questions I have to ask...

1. Has Deed Compliance called every business listed in the newspaper on a daily basis that has a village address? There are 100's of them!

2. If the Wildwood post office tells you that you have to have permission from The Villages to open up a PO Box....who did you call to get that permission? AND who gave it to you?

3. Doesn't Deed Compliance have better things to do with their time??? There are tons of homes in violation of their Deed Restrictions all over TV's....they should focus on what is important.

[GMONEY]

A few questions I have to ask...

1. Has Deed Compliance called every business listed in the newspaper on a daily basis that has a village address? There are 100's of them!

2. If the Wildwood post office tells you that you have to have permission from The Villages to open up a PO Box....who did you call to get that permission? AND who gave it to you?

3. Doesn't Deed Compliance have better things to do with their time??? There are tons of homes in violation of their Deed Restrictions all over TV's....they should focus on what is important.

Havent seen you post in awhile,,,,, Interesting Thoughts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mallory]

Just wondering if this dust-up may be caused and has come up on the radar screen by a number of factors not generally found in an ebay business, home watch, MaryKay parties, etc. home business type of operation which have been mentioned previously -

1. TOTV is incorporated.
2. TOTV accepts paid advertising.
3. TOTV has locations in multiple states (PA, TN) and countries (Canada).
4. TOTV is expanding the business to other areas in FL (Polk County if I recall correctly).
5. TOTV uses "The Villages" name and phrase "The Villages, Florida. Your online Community Connection", which may infer or imply that TOTV is an official and authorized entity of The Villages, which we all know it is not.

As far as the relationship with the Post Office goes, I have no idea. I've long since given up trying to figure out their business and how they do it.

PS - Why would a TOTV member blow the whistle on this operation?

[BogeyBoy]

This is all very strange. We get corporate mail all the time. But I did find it very interesting that when we moved here two years ago, I went to the Wildwood Post Office to open up a separate post office box. Although we do not do business from our house, I wanted a P.O. Box during the transition of many things. Long story short, the Wildwood Post Office said I would have to get permission from The Villages to open up a separate box there. Isn't that odd??? Or am I missing something. :shrug: Kind of creepy!

I would say there was a misunderstanding regarding the "get permission" from The Villages. If you request a PO Box a couple of things can slow the process. First - if you request a box in a different location from where your residence or business is located the post office often verifies your physical address. Same applies if your ID does not match the information submitted on the PO Box application. (Done to prevent fraud - someone opens a box, gets a bunch of checks through some scheme, then skips out.)

[Keedy]

Just wondering if this dust-up may be caused and has come up on the radar screen by a number of factors not generally found in an ebay business, home watch, MaryKay parties, etc. home business type of operation which have been mentioned previously -

1. TOTV is incorporated.
2. TOTV accepts paid advertising.
3. TOTV has locations in multiple states (PA, TN) and countries (Canada).
4. TOTV is expanding the business to other areas in FL (Polk County if I recall correctly).
5. TOTV uses "The Villages" name and phrase "The Villages, Florida. Your online Community Connection", which may infer or imply that TOTV is an official and authorized entity of The Villages, which we all know it is not.

As far as the relationship with the Post Office goes, I have no idea. I've long since given up trying to figure out their business and how they do it.

PS - Why would a TOTV member blow the whistle on this operation?



Just a thought....Could it have been a detected troll who has been thrown off TOTV and now seeks revenge? There has been trolls who have posted here with a taste for baiting people.

[SteveFromNY]

[QUOTE=Mallory;217241]Just wondering if this dust-up may be caused and has come up on the radar screen by a number of factors not generally found in an ebay business, home watch, MaryKay parties, etc. home business type of operation which have been mentioned previously -

1. TOTV is incorporated.
2. TOTV accepts paid advertising.
3. TOTV has locations in multiple states (PA, TN) and countries (Canada).
4. TOTV is expanding the business to other areas in FL (Polk County if I recall correctly).
5. TOTV uses "The Villages" name and phrase "The Villages, Florida. Your online Community Connection", which may infer or imply that TOTV is an official and authorized entity of The Villages, which we all know it is not.

QUOTE]


All that and an address in TV. Sounds like a business to me, and if the way to get around the deed restrictions is to have a PO Box outside TV, then that's what's got to happen.

While it may not be bothering anyone, and you may have been ratted out by someone, it doesn't change the fact that by all indications you're breaking the rules, even if it's a technicality. Your choice as to whether or not to fight, or change your address.

Granted the rules can be stupid about certain things, but they are the rules that we (consciuosly or not) signed up for. So either obey them, or get them changed. And of course you should always be careful about what people know about you.

[chuckster]

TH..Seems as though keeping the PO Box until you moved and then leave a forward with the PO would have kept it simple even considering the additional rental for the PO Box.

Just a thought..................................Good luck on your move.

[downeaster]

Cassie said:

"Doesn't Deed Compliance have better things to do with their time??? There are tons of homes in violation of their Deed Restrictions all over TV's....they should focus on what is important."

And Steve said:

"All that and an address in TV. Sounds like a business to me, and if the way to get around the deed restrictions is to have a PO Box outside TV, then that's what's got to happen.

While it may not be bothering anyone, and you may have been ratted out by someone, it doesn't change the fact that by all indications you're breaking the rules, even if it's a technicality. Your choice as to whether or not to fight, or change your address.

Granted the rules can be stupid about certain things, but they are the rules that we (consciuosly or not) signed up for. So either obey them, or get them changed. And of course you should always be careful about what people know about you"

Two excellent points.

Although I feel deed compliance is over zealous in this case, if they didn't act on a complaint they could be considered derelict in performing their duties.

Someone earlier suggested modifying the rule to exempt any business that does not impact on anyone.

I would also suggest a method of granting a waiver for an individual case. TH's "business" would qualify for a waiver. Were I to apply for a waiver in order to manufacture widgets in my garage, I would be denied.

[villages07]

Maybe I'm missing something, but, I don't see what the supposed 'violation' is for TH. I just looked up his deed restrictions and his reads just like mine:

"Properties within the subdivision are intended for residential use and no commercial, professional, or similar activity requiring either maintaining an inventory, equipment, or customer/client visits may be conducted in a home or on a homesite"


So, what's the issue? I really think the responses to this thread are all over the place and creating unnecessary hysteria.

As Bogie Shooter often recommends, has TH (or anyone else) actually spoken with an official in the Deed Compliance office for a clear interpretation of the supposed infraction?

[BogeyBoy]

Cassie said:

"Doesn't Deed Compliance have better things to do with their time??? There are tons of homes in violation of their Deed Restrictions all over TV's....they should focus on what is important."

And Steve said:

"All that and an address in TV. Sounds like a business to me, and if the way to get around the deed restrictions is to have a PO Box outside TV, then that's what's got to happen.

While it may not be bothering anyone, and you may have been ratted out by someone, it doesn't change the fact that by all indications you're breaking the rules, even if it's a technicality. Your choice as to whether or not to fight, or change your address.

Granted the rules can be stupid about certain things, but they are the rules that we (consciuosly or not) signed up for. So either obey them, or get them changed. And of course you should always be careful about what people know about you"

Two excellent points.

Although I feel deed compliance is over zealous in this case, if they didn't act on a complaint they could be considered derelict in performing their duties.

Someone earlier suggested modifying the rule to exempt any business that does not impact on anyone.

I would also suggest a method of granting a waiver for an individual case. TH's "business" would qualify for a waiver. Were I to apply for a waiver in order to manufacture widgets in my garage, I would be denied.

I agree that they may go to the extremes in bringing our attention to the deed restrictions. I question if sometimes they use the "complaint" to make it that they aren't the "bad" guy. Shortly after I moved into my CYV I got a note under my wiper from Community Watch that two of my wheels were on the pavement, not my driveway. (I had parked there when my wife was out with her car.) No big deal, I made sure my wheels were never on the blacktop. Recently I had a knock on the door. "Someone" had "complained" that one of my wheels was on the gravel at my house, not on the concrete. Sure enough, I checked it out, vehicles must be "wholly within the driveway, garage, or other non-visitor parking spaces".

Oh well, off the soapbox.

[Frangyomory]

I don't think you are "conducting a business" in the Villages but unfortunately, the interpretation is what apparently counts. Your best bet is the P.O. Box. Good grief Charlie Brown!!!!!

[Talk Host]

As Bogie Shooter often recommends, has TH (or anyone else) actually spoken with an official in the Deed Compliance office for a clear interpretation of the supposed infraction?

Oh Yes, I spoke with Deed Compliance office. They said I'm in violation and need to cease. They said that my address is not to be used as the mailing location for my business mail. They were pretty clear about it.
I told them that I am moving and they said that it is a moot point.

I asked about the situation if I was not moving. They didn't seem to have an answer for me. The guy said that they would "turn it over to the county."


JLK

[villages07]

Jan,

I just wonder if the person you spoke with was well-versed or not. I would think they should be able to cite you the specific item in your deed restrictions that they say you are violating.

If it is the passage I have quoted now 3 times, then I strongly disagree with this person's interpretation. What you are doing, or anyone else who runs a for-profit informational website, is not a violation of the rules.

As others have stated, The Villages has no jurisdiction on how mail is sent to you.

[beady]

Wow...... for all the good things that go on in TV, it is sad to see that neighbors are actually checking on each other to make sure your car wheels are in the driveway.......those peeps, like whoever found out corporate mail was going to TH's house, have way to much time on their hands.

Bottom line, if this was my situation....someone would have to explain to me who knows , beside the post station employee( who are contractors, not USPS employees) what mail is being delivered to my home...and why it is any of their business. This is ,in my estimation,not a compliance issue but a privacy issue. Unless you are suspected of mail fraud or some other Federal violation no one can monitor your mail.

[EdV]

.......This is ,in my estimation,not a compliance issue but a privacy issue. Unless you are suspected of mail fraud or some other Federal violation no one can monitor your mail.

Well, not necessarily. It could have been delivered to the wrong recipient's mailbox, and then turned into the TV office for correct delivery where the potential for a violation was determined.

The other day I got a magazine that was addressed to someone else who lives on the other side of town. So I popped it back into an outbound mailbox, but sure enough, there it was the next day back in my inbound mailbox. It can be annoying.

[Cassie325]

Bottom line, if this was my situation....someone would have to explain to me who knows , beside the post station employee( who are contractors, not USPS employees) what mail is being delivered to my home...and why it is any of their business. This is ,in my estimation,not a compliance issue but a privacy issue. Unless you are suspected of mail fraud or some other Federal violation no one can monitor your mail.

I have seen some of these people and they have the USPS uniform on and have ID....what kind of contract employees are they?

There are certainly CDD employees that pick up the Amenity/Utilities mail box but they are different from the real postal service employees....

[BogeyBoy]

I have seen some of these people and they have the USPS uniform on and have ID....what kind of contract employees are they?

There are certainly CDD employees that pick up the Amenity/Utilities mail box but they are different from the real postal service employees....

The Postal Service hires various classes of employees to deliver mail. In certain situations they may even allow employees to "cross crafts" to get the mail delivered.

Career postal employees fall into these categories:

Management
City Letter Carriers
Clerks
Mail Handlers
Rural Route Carriers

(There are more, but you won't see them here, such as nurses, doctors, attorneys, etc. Mostly professionals that work at HDQRS or very large facilities.)

After the career employees you have contractors. (No benefits, just a contract to transport or deliver mail.) Examples are:

Large trucks that haul mail between cities.
Custodial services
Aircraft
Delivery in remote areas
Delivery in new areas (TV) that were not previously designated as city or rural delivery.

After 9-11 all postal employees and contractors that enter postal facilities were required to wear readily visible ID.

Uniforms are generally worn by City Delivery carriers and clerks that wait on you at the Post Office. They get a clothing allowance for their uniforms.

Some casual carriers and other that are in the public eye are provided postal shirts to make them more recognizable as postal employees. Some buy their own.

The majority of delivery in TV is done by contractors.

I know this is a little lengthy but hopefully it will give you an understanding of why you are seeing mail delivered in a manner that is most likely different than any thing you have seen in the past.

[NJblue]

Sounds to me like there is some selective enforcement going on here. If this is the pertinent restriction: "Properties within the subdivision are intended for residential use and no commercial, professional, or similar activity requiring either maintaining an inventory, equipment, or customer/client visits may be conducted in a home or on a homesite", then there are a lot of "businesses" in TV that are non-compliant that are not only being shown a blind eye, but are actually given preferential treatment. By this I mean all the artists and craftspeople who use their homes to "maintain an inventory and equipment" and perhaps even host client visits. TV not only allows this activity, they support it with art shows and extensive coverage in the Sun.

While I agree with the spirit of the rules which is to keep people from being a nuisance to their neighborhood by running a business, clearly there are "businesses" that do not deter a neighbor's enjoyment of their property. Both artists/craftspeople and TOTV seem to fall in this latter category. Yet, only TOTV seems to be singled out for non-compliance.

[Keedy]

Publications are high profile and will be scrutinized accordingly. Comes with the territory, I guess.

[Taltarzac]

Sounds to me like there is some selective enforcement going on here. If this is the pertinent restriction: "Properties within the subdivision are intended for residential use and no commercial, professional, or similar activity requiring either maintaining an inventory, equipment, or customer/client visits may be conducted in a home or on a homesite", then there are a lot of "businesses" in TV that are non-compliant that are not only being shown a blind eye, but are actually given preferential treatment. By this I mean all the artists and craftspeople who use their homes to "maintain an inventory and equipment" and perhaps even host client visits. TV not only allows this activity, they support it with art shows and extensive coverage in the Sun.

While I agree with the spirit of the rules which is to keep people from being a nuisance to their neighborhood by running a business, clearly there are "businesses" that do not deter a neighbor's enjoyment of their property. Both artists/craftspeople and TOTV seem to fall in this latter category. Yet, only TOTV seems to be singled out for non-compliance.

The artists and the like here in TV seem to get a great deal of support from the Villagers developers and management. So, do the senior athletes. But these activities seem more like hobbies-- something someone does to pass the time and for physical/mental health-- and not for profit.

[Cassie325]

The artists and the like here in TV seem to get a great deal of support from the Villagers developers and management. So, do the senior athletes. But these activities seem more like hobbies-- something someone does to pass the time and for physical/mental health-- and not for profit.


Except of course during the bi-annual Art Show where everyone sells their art.....for profit.

[golfnut]

Jan, just a question, are you planning on putting TOTV up for sale, curious minds want to know???

[Talk Host]

There has never been any recent discussion of selling Talk of The Villages. But you know the old saying, "everything .. ... ....!"


Jan, just a question, are you planning on putting TOTV up for sale, curious minds want to know???

[Taltarzac]

Except of course during the bi-annual Art Show where everyone sells their art.....for profit.

That does not seem to be from home though. I know various Villagers who have businesses where they do something for a fee but it is in other peoples Villages' homes like a carpet cleaner, masseuse, pet sitter, etc.

I would assume that various instructors at the Villages university receive compensation for the efforts.

[Autoshow]

If you cannot conduct "business" from your home, then why does the Villages owned Daily Sun accept classified ads from persons doing "business"? Seems kinda like a double standard to me. At least when you are partaking of Villagers in business, you don't stand much of a chance of being taken for a ride, or worse yet, broken into later. As for someone reporting you, don't they have anything better to do than mind everyone else's business? I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't have the time to worry about what my neighbor does or doesn't do. I have all I can do to take care of my own stuff. What do they do....tote around a copy of the covenants and restrictions to be sure their neighbors, etc. are in compliance? Get a life!!

Mail boxes are only for the US Mail,wonder why we get all that other advertisment in our boxes,some of it with out stamps.Is the postal employee paid off to put that junk in our boxes

[BogeyBoy]

Mail boxes are only for the US Mail,wonder why we get all that other advertisment in our boxes,some of it with out stamps.Is the postal employee paid off to put that junk in our boxes

The advertising mail you are referring to is often placed into the mail stream in very large quantities. As long as the mailer has the appropriate paperwork and pays the proper postage the mail gets sent to the delivery unit to be delivered. In addition to the bulk mail postage they pay fees for bulk mail permits. Some of these mailers send millions of pieces of mail, some just send localized mailings. (Such as those you keep getting that invite you to a financial seminar at Palmer.) The postal employee isn't "paid off" to deliver that mail, but they are paid - it's part of their job.

[CJ]

Is big brother in TV????? I would stand firm on the mail as I know people who have active offices in their homes running large business' which include incoming people to their home to conduct business. Frankly, it is helping stimulate the economy and to single out one is suspicious if not un-american. The mail is also a source of privacy (so I thought) and no one has a right to tamper with or read someone else's mail.

Fight this one or we all are going to the dogs!

[Talk Host]

Is big brother in TV????? I would stand firm on the mail as I know people who have active offices in their homes running large business' which include incoming people to their home to conduct business. Frankly, it is helping stimulate the economy and to single out one is suspicious if not un-american. The mail is also a source of privacy (so I thought) and no one has a right to tamper with or read someone else's mail.

Fight this one or we all are going to the dogs!

Nobody is "reading" my mail. I used my home address when I incorporated in New York and Florida. I did it as a matter of convenience. The Villages tells me that I am not allowed to do that. It makes no difference that there is absolutely no business conducted here.

They tell me that I can only "live" here. I cannot do anything else with my home address or house other than "live" here.

If anybody is conducting any type of business in their house, my advice is to be ready. You could be next getting an order to shut down your illegal business.

[BethS]

Hello Talk Host & Other Villagers, I myself love the Talk of the Villages, I think you do a great job helping newbies along with wanabes and even older people who go online but because of illness, etc. cannot get out to enjoy our little Paradise. In any business you know that you are never going to make everyone happy, same goes for your neighborhood, always someone watching you do something they think is wrong, not up to code, deed restrictions, etc. This is a big place and we are bound to have those types of issues. I hope that The Villages are not trying to control your website, that would be sad, you guys are the best!:pepper2:

[CJ]

How about then "home based business"....avon, herbalife, shaklee, amway...I bet there a lots of those in the villages and they get mail. How is this different for them and not you?

Got a suggestion: get a PO Box if they insist and keep your busines going the way you have. And also, how is it that our post office employees (villages one) is responsible for policing our mail???

This is America, supposedly the land of the free and free enterprise!