Lexi Thompson Assessed 4 Stroke Penalty, Loses Championship in Playoff!

[tonyj5]

Lexi Thompson was informed that she received a four stroke penalty as she walked off the 12th hole on Sunday at the ANA Inspiration.

An email was received by LPGA officials from a viewer about a possible rules infraction during the third round.

TONY'S LPGA REPORT: Lexi Thompson Receives 4 stroke Penalty, Loses Championship by 1 Stroke in Playoff (http://www.tonyslpgareport.com/2017/04/lexi-thompson-receives-4-stroke-penalty.html)

[Biker Dog]

TV viewer and instant replay, this is really stupid. Not good for the sport!!!!!!!!!

[golfing eagles]

Maybe a viewer will call in tomorrow about an incomplete pass in the super bowl and NE didn't really win. Or maybe they'll spot a hit that was really foul in the World Series and the Cubs are still on a 111 year dry spell. Oh, wait, these sports don't ALLOW that, so why does golf?????? How much time and money do the pro tours waste on evaluating these "call ins"??? How long before the number of these call explodes as fans try to influence the outcome to benefit their favorite player? And if officials want to use videotape to assess penalties (which is really the responsibility of the individual player), they should have a camera on every player, every shot, every round since TV coverage is skewed to show only the leaders and therefore inherently inequitable.

[retiredguy123]

In my opinion, the video clearly shows that she cheated by moving the ball out of a hole, which was probably a spike mark. The player is not allowed to repair spike marks, or to move the ball from its original location. Regardless of how the violation was detected, I think the ruling was correct. Unlike other sports, golfers are supposed to enforce their own violations.

[golfing eagles]

In my opinion, the video clearly shows that she cheated by moving the ball out of a hole, which was probably a spike mark. The player is not allowed to repair spike marks, or to move the ball from its original location. Regardless of how the violation was detected, I think the ruling was correct. Unlike other sports, golfers are supposed to enforce their own violations.

So why listen to television viewers?

[Taltarzac725]

Maybe a viewer will call in tomorrow about an incomplete pass in the super bowl and NE didn't really win. Or maybe they'll spot a hit that was really foul in the World Series and the Cubs are still on a 111 year dry spell. Oh, wait, these sports don't ALLOW that, so why does golf?????? How much time and money do the pro tours waste on evaluating these "call ins"??? How long before the number of these call explodes as fans try to influence the outcome to benefit their favorite player? And if officials want to use videotape to assess penalties (which is really the responsibility of the individual player), they should have a camera on every player, every shot, every round since TV coverage is skewed to show only the leaders and therefore inherently inequitable.

Seems to me that they follow the people who have a good chance of winning the money involved in the Tournament which would mean that they have a number of cameras going on the leader board players at one time. The technicians, staff, director, etc running the televising of the golfing see quite a bit more than the television audience. All these people could look out for infractions made by the players whether or no someone calls them in or not. There must be a lot of fans who call in just for the attention and others who are more serious about the golf being played.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

In my opinion, the video clearly shows that she cheated by moving the ball out of a hole, which was probably a spike mark. The player is not allowed to repair spike marks, or to move the ball from its original location. Regardless of how the violation was detected, I think the ruling was correct. Unlike other sports, golfers are supposed to enforce their own violations.

I honestly don't think that she did it intentionally. If you look at the video you can see that her hand obscures here view of the ball. It's pretty much impossible to call a penalty on yourself for a violation that you are unaware you committed.

I agree that the rule must be applied equally to all competitors, but I don't think that the governing bodies of these competitions should act upon phone calls, or e-mails from viewers to look at previous rules violations unless it is clear that the action was done on purpose and/or it affects the players score.

One of the big problems with this is that the players who are on television the most are the most likely to be caught by this things. There might have been players that barely made the cut that had some minuscule rules violation in the first round that never got picked up because they weren't on television and then went on to make the cut and finish high up in the tournament.

It's not that it's unfair application of the rules, it's unfair monitoring of players.

Gerina Piller shot 71-75 to make the cut on the number. She then shot 74-66 to finish 35T and win $16,000. How do we know that she didn't miss mark her ball or accidentally touch the sand in a bunker without noticing in the first or second round. We don't know because she wasn't on television during those rounds. If something like that had been caught on television, it might have allowed another player to make the cut. Is that fair to the field?

If you're going to have television rules making then you need to have a close up camera on every player during every shot in the tournament and someone to sit and view everyone play.

Hopefully, when the new rules come out something will be done about this. Until then, unless it's a flagrant, intentional violation that definitely affected the players score, television viewer notifications should be ignored.

Another possibility is to not allowed any penalties, with the exception of signing an incorrect scorecard and penalties that can be shown to be flagrant and intentional, to be applied once a round is completed or once the next round has been begun.

[retiredguy123]

How the violation was detected doesn't change the fact that she violated the rules, and it is probably not the first time. You don't move the ball out of a hole to improve your lie by accident. The normal way to replace a marked ball is to stand directly behind the ball facing the hole, not sideways the way she did it. If the ball is in a spike mark, you know it, and you have to putt it from the spike mark. You cannot move it. I think she should be more concerned about her reputation, and just acknowledge that the penalty was correct.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

In my opinion, the video clearly shows that she cheated by moving the ball out of a hole, which was probably a spike mark. The player is not allowed to repair spike marks, or to move the ball from its original location. Regardless of how the violation was detected, I think the ruling was correct. Unlike other sports, golfers are supposed to enforce their own violations.

I don't think that "cheated" is an appropriate term here. To me. "cheated" implies that the player did something intentional to gain an advantage.

Do you think that Roberto DeVinsenzo cheated when the signed an incorrect scorecard? Do you think that Dustin Johnson cheated when he touched the ground in a poorly defined bunker?

Do you think that a player that accidentally kicks his ball while searching for it in long rough is cheating?

Cheating implies intent and no one is saying that Lexi Thompson intentionally tried to create an advantage.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I agree, but it doesn't change the fact that she cheated, and it is probably not the first time. You don't move the ball out of a hole to improve your lie by accident.

AS I said, if you look at the video you can see that her hand obscures the ball and the marker when she replaced it. We don't know if the ball was in a hole or not and we have no way of knowing whether she did it intentionally. Again, no one from the LPGA, USGA or the tournament is accusing her of cheating. You have to give the player the benefit of the doubt in these case.


Probably not the first time? You can't possibly be serious. You have absolutely no knowledge that she has ever done anything like this before. Why would you make such a ludicrous accusatory statement?

[DonH57]

After reviewing the play, I can see how her hand would have obstructed her view of the ball in relation to the coin but I could not see a pitch or ball mark at the ball placement. Why is golf the only sport I can sit in my underwear, drink PBR or take a toke, and armchair referee the game from my living room? Just asking!

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

After reviewing the play, I can see how her hand would have obstructed her view of the ball in relation to the coin but I could not see a pitch or ball mark at the ball placement. Why is golf the only sport I can sit in my underwear, drink PBR or take a toke, and armchair referee the game from my living room? Just asking!

I can understand to a certain degree that the tournament committee might look at evidence from any source. We have a game that is self governing. We trust that all of the players will do the right thing. We also don't have a referee with every player looking at every swing and every movement like we do in other sports. Sometimes things happen intentionally or otherwise that are not seen, but should be dealt with.

Other sports have officials looking closely at every play.

But when a violation is so minor, can't be shown to be intentional and did not affect the players score, the evidence should be ignored. Unfortunately, under the current rules the officials have no choice but to enforce the rules as they are written.

[retiredguy123]

AS I said, if you look at the video you can see that her hand obscures the ball and the marker when she replaced it. We don't know if the ball was in a hole or not and we have no way of knowing whether she did it intentionally. Again, no one from the LPGA, USGA or the tournament is accusing her of cheating. You have to give the player the benefit of the doubt in these case.


Probably not the first time? You can't possibly be serious. You have absolutely no knowledge that she has ever done anything like this before. Why would you make such a ludicrous accusatory statement?
Ok, I will agree that accusing her of cheating may be a bit strong, but I'm sure that some people who have played competitive sports will see it that way. However, I really think that her reputation with the public is a bigger issue than this one tournament. The video clearly shows that she violated the rule and she should own up to it, and be more careful in the future when marking her ball.

[golfing eagles]

How the violation was detected doesn't change the fact that she violated the rules, and it is probably not the first time. You don't move the ball out of a hole to improve your lie by accident. The normal way to replace a marked ball is to stand directly behind the ball facing the hole, not sideways the way she did it. If the ball is in a spike mark, you know it, and you have to putt it from the spike mark. You cannot move it. I think she should be more concerned about her reputation, and just acknowledge that the penalty was correct.

Got it. So it must be OK to run an illegal wiretap on your cell phone to see if you're cheating on your spouse or income tax. After all, HOW it was detected doesn't matter.

[retiredguy123]

After reviewing the play, I can see how her hand would have obstructed her view of the ball in relation to the coin but I could not see a pitch or ball mark at the ball placement. Why is golf the only sport I can sit in my underwear, drink PBR or take a toke, and armchair referee the game from my living room? Just asking!
I do see a small hole or mark on the video. But, what is really interesting on the video is that she picks up the ball and immediately replaces it without cleaning it or lining up the ball markings with the hole. These are the typical reasons why a player will mark the ball in the first place. So, it begs the question, why did she even mark the ball if she were not trying to improve her lie?

[DonH57]

Maybe my eyesight but I just don't see a mark. I see her hand coming down in a totally different position placing the ball. I have seen players mark and briefly reset their ball without cleaning or standing upright with it. I personally always stand behind my ball placing the coin toward the pin. My main reason to mark and remove my ball is so it won't be hit or moved.

[golfing eagles]

Maybe my eyesight but I just don't see a mark. I see her hand coming down in a totally different position placing the ball. I have seen players mark and briefly reset their ball without cleaning or standing upright with it. I personally always stand behind my ball placing the coin toward the pin. My main reason to mark and remove my ball is so it won't be hit or moved.

Some players will mark and replace just to align the brand label with the line of the putt, so let's not assign a motive just because she didn't feel it necessary to clean the ball

[golfing eagles]

I do see a small hole or mark on the video. But, what is really interesting on the video is that she picks up the ball and immediately replaces it without cleaning it or lining up the ball markings with the hole. These are the typical reasons why a player will mark the ball in the first place. So, it begs the question, why did she even mark the ball if she were not trying to improve her lie?

///

[600th Photo Sq]

C' mon soon after the tournament was over she and her partner were @30,000 ft in her private jet sipping Dom Perignon ( 1998 )..along with Dean & DeLuca Caviar 8.8 oz. size, Russian of course, planning there " Romantic " get away somewhere in the South Pacific .

So I do appreciate all the Tears and Sympathy...but realistically... Lexi..I'm certain slept pretty good last night.

Dear Devoted fans and Admirers Get over it.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Ok, I will agree that accusing her of cheating may be a bit strong, but I'm sure that some people who have played competitive sports will see it that way. However, I really think that her reputation with the public is a bigger issue than this one tournament. The video clearly shows that she violated the rule and she should own up to it, and be more careful in the future when marking her ball.

She owned up to it quite nicely. She said that she didn't know she did it. As far as I can see, she handled the whole matter with dignity and class. She never argued with the ruling.

I think that her public showed exactly what they think of her as she approached the 18th green yesterday.

I think that most people believe that it was an unintentional error and are very sympathetic toward her.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Got it. So it must be OK to run an illegal wiretap on your cell phone to see if you're cheating on your spouse or income tax. After all, HOW it was detected doesn't matter.

Actually, how it was detected does not matter.

Once the officials are made aware of a violation, they have a responsibility to the rest of the field to investigate it and if there is a violation, to correctly apply the rules regardless of the source of the information.

There's a big difference between watching a television program and wire tapping. Golfers playing in a tournament are in the public domain. Reporting their actions is way different than wire tapping a private phone line. If you saw a bank being robbed and reported it to the police, would you be violating the bank robber's rights? Should the police consider that they didn't see the event themselves?

If you know that someone was cheating on their income tax and reported it to the IRS shouldn't the IRS investigate or should they do nothing because of how it was detected.?

In this particular case, under the current rules, the ruling was 100% correct. Once the officials have the information regardless of how it was obtained they must act according to the rules.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

C' mon soon after the tournament was over she and her partner were @30,000 ft in her private jet sipping Dom Perignon ( 1998 )..along with Dean & DeLuca Caviar 8.8 oz. size, Russian of course, planning there " Romantic " get away somewhere in the South Pacific .

So I do appreciate all the Tears and Sympathy...but realistically... Lexi..I'm certain slept pretty good last night.

Dear Devoted fans and Admirers Get over it.

I doubt very highly that she slept well. She has enough money to last for generations. Money is not what motivates people like Lexi Thompson, or anyone that play a sport at the highest levels. Lexi wants to become known as the greatest female to ever play the game. She wants to have a major championship record that is unsurpassed.

Regardless of what is going on in her personal life, this was a major blow to her. Some people never get over events like this and spiral into mediocrity.

I hear people all the time with comments about Tiger Woods. "He has so much money, what does he care?"

He does care to a degree that many of us might not understand. It is killing him that his career is turning out this way. He was on track to beat all of Jack Nicklaus' records and that has become extremely doubtful now.

I don't think that a lot of people realize how much these people are driven and how hard they work to get to where they are. It's really not about money at that level. If it was, why would they continue playing? Why does Tom Brady keep going out week after week and taking the hits that he does? Why doesn't he just take it easy and enjoy the money that he has. His net worth together with his wife is almost $600 million dollars. How can anyone think that he is motivated by money.

[Rapscallion St Croix]

If golf were more popular, the viewer who notified the officials could become the new Steve Bartman. If the roles had been reversed and Lexi Thompson had won and So Yeon Ryu lost because of the penalties, we wouldn't even be talking about it.

[Mikeod]

Actually, how it was detected does not matter.

Once the officials are made aware of a violation, they have a responsibility to the rest of the field to investigate it and if there is a violation, to correctly apply the rules regardless of the source of the information.


I think how it was detected DOES matter. IMO, a primary function of the ROG is to maintain a level field for all competitors. The intrusion of TV into the competition should be no more than that of a spectator attending the event. The officials running these tournaments should not accept any input from outside the competition committee, walking officials, or competitors.

In this particular case, the incidental/accidental error in replacing the ball wasn't apparent to her fellow competitors, walking scorer, or attending official. It was only apparent with a close-up camera shot, similar to the Furyk penalty a couple of years ago when his ball moved about dimple after replacing it. The additional scrutiny from TV coverage tilts the field to the detriment of those covered by placing every move they make under a microscope. A condition the vast majority of players don't have to experience.

[retiredguy123]

The players in the lead have more TV coverage and scrutiny, but the players who are not in the lead, are more likely to lose their ball because there are no cameras and spectators tracking where it goes on every shot. Also, spectators lining the fairway often get hit by the ball, which causes it to deflect back into the fairway. Years ago, Tiger Woods had a huge rock boulder (loose impediment) moved by several strong spectators so he could make a shot. That would have never happened to a player not in the lead. But, in this particular case, there was a very clear violation of the rules and she should have been penalized. So, justice prevailed. Her playing partners may have seen it, but let it slide, because they didn't want to be criticized.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I think how it was detected DOES matter. IMO, a primary function of the ROG is to maintain a level field for all competitors. The intrusion of TV into the competition should be no more than that of a spectator attending the event. The officials running these tournaments should not accept any input from outside the competition committee, walking officials, or competitors.

In this particular case, the incidental/accidental error in replacing the ball wasn't apparent to her fellow competitors, walking scorer, or attending official. It was only apparent with a close-up camera shot, similar to the Furyk penalty a couple of years ago when his ball moved about dimple after replacing it. The additional scrutiny from TV coverage tilts the field to the detriment of those covered by placing every move they make under a microscope. A condition the vast majority of players don't have to experience.

I agree with much of what you say, but once the officials are made aware that a violation had occurred it's their duty and responsibility to look into the matter and assess appropriate penalties.

For example let's say that a rules official is standing near the gallery of the 18th hole of a tournament and overhears a spectator say, "She should know how this putt breaks. I saw her practicing on this green this morning."

In that case, a competitor violated a rule for which the penalty is disqualification. It would be difficult to convince me that a player on any of the professional tours doesn't know this rule. I would have to assume that it was done intentionally and with the intent of gaining an advantage.

Should the rules official ignore that comment or should she investigate it? Should isn't it the responsibility of the official to ensure that all players play by the rules.

I agree that something has to be done about people calling in while watching on television. I'm not sure what the answer is, but once an official has information that a rule has been violated, it is up to that official to act upon that information regardless of the source.

I don't think that you can simply say that they shouldn't listen to information from any one source. What if it's a flagrant, intentional violation that no one in the players group sees. I'd lean more to giving officials more discretion in deciding if the violation was intentional and affected the player's score.

I'd also like to see them do away with the penalty for signing an incorrect scorecard wen they are not aware that that had broken a rule.

It's a pretty complex problem and IMHO, and hopefully, The USGA will work to find an answer.

[karostay]

Looking at the replay Stevie Wonder could have made that call .

[DonH57]

Ok. Ok. I'll admit I wasn't concentrating on her hands.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

The players in the lead have more TV coverage and scrutiny, but the players who are not in the lead, are more likely to lose their ball because there are no cameras and spectators tracking where it goes on every shot. Also, spectators lining the fairway often get hit by the ball, which causes it to deflect back into the fairway. Years ago, Tiger Woods had a huge rock boulder (loose impediment) moved by several strong spectators so he could make a shot. That would have never happened to a player not in the lead. But, in this particular case, there was a very clear violation of the rules and she should have been penalized. So, justice prevailed. Her playing partners may have seen it, but let it slide, because they didn't want to be criticized.
There seems to be a lot of speculation by some people in this thread.

"Her playing partners may have seen it, but let it slide, because they didn't want to be criticized.

Why would you say something like that. There is absolutely no evidence that her fellow competitors were aware of the violation.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

If golf were more popular, the viewer who notified the officials could become the new Steve Bartman. If the roles had been reversed and Lexi Thompson had won and So Yeon Ryu lost because of the penalties, we wouldn't even be talking about it.

I respectfully disagree. First of all, golf is very popular. The difference with golf and team sports is that the players don't represent a city or region so most spectators, although they might like a particular player, really don't have a dog in the hunt.

I firmly believe that if So Yeon Ryu had a four stroke lead with a few holes remaining and was assessed a four stroke penalty because of an incident that occurred the day before there would still be plenty of discussion about it.

[retiredguy123]

I respectfully disagree. First of all, golf is very popular. The difference with golf and team sports is that the players don't represent a city or region so most spectators, although they might like a particular player, really don't have a dog in the hunt.

I firmly believe that if So Yeon Ryu had a four stroke lead with a few holes remaining and was assessed a four stroke penalty because of an incident that occurred the day before there would still be plenty of discussion about it.
Isn't that speculation, without any evidence?

[rjn5656]

Bad for game. Time to stop viewers ability to challenge. If LPGA didn't assess by end of round, it should be over.

[Taltarzac725]

Bad for game. Time to stop viewers ability to challenge. If LPGA didn't assess by end of round, it should be over.

I agree that they should put some limits on this as they are probably a lot of people looking for errors or intentional infractions by golfers while they are playing.

One inch off and she loses $150,000 according to Orlando CBS sports reporter Jamie Seh. Doubt it that was intentional.

[Challenger]

:agree:Actually, how it was detected does not matter.

Once the officials are made aware of a violation, they have a responsibility to the rest of the field to investigate it and if there is a violation, to correctly apply the rules regardless of the source of the information.

There's a big difference between watching a television program and wire tapping. Golfers playing in a tournament are in the public domain. Reporting their actions is way different than wire tapping a private phone line. If you saw a bank being robbed and reported it to the police, would you be violating the bank robber's rights? Should the police consider that they didn't see the event themselves?

If you know that someone was cheating on their income tax and reported it to the IRS shouldn't the IRS investigate or should they do nothing because of how it was detected.?

In this particular case, under the current rules, the ruling was 100% correct. Once the officials have the information regardless of how it was obtained they must act according to the rules.

:agree:

[JGVillages]

How about flying "infraction drones" over each group to monitor play?? Soon they will allow robots to play on tour that are programmed to not make infractions. Possibly gps in the ball to trigger an alarm if it is not replaced in the exact same spot. Let the player, playing partners, caddies, and tournament officials officiate because the leaps in technology will continually interfere unfairly unless every player is monitored equally, so the field is protected fairly.

[Mikeod]

Saw an interesting, but unlikely, point of view on another board. What if the emailer was a fan of another golfer and purposely waited til the next day to send the email so that there would also be the signing incorrect scorecard penalty in addition to the wrong place penalty?

Best solution is still to keep the competition between golfers and the committee and its officials. Spectators have no business other than watching.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I do see a small hole or mark on the video. But, what is really interesting on the video is that she picks up the ball and immediately replaces it without cleaning it or lining up the ball markings with the hole. These are the typical reasons why a player will mark the ball in the first place. So, it begs the question, why did she even mark the ball if she were not trying to improve her lie?

I thought that was strange as well. But you can't assume from that that it was intentional. A lot of players will mark every time out of habit. She might have marked and then realized it was unnecessary. As has been pointed out, many players line up the brand name before they putt and she may have been doing that as well. It might have been a nervous reaction.

I need a lot more than that to call it intentional. I guess if you reviewed a lot of video of her actions on short putts and found that either she did or didn't do that a lot it might settle the question.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Saw an interesting, but unlikely, point of view on another board. What if the emailer was a fan of another golfer and purposely waited til the next day to send the email so that there would also be the signing incorrect scorecard penalty in addition to the wrong place penalty?

Best solution is still to keep the competition between golfers and the committee and its officials. Spectators have no business other than watching.

That's OK, but what about flagrant intentional violations that are reported after the fact? Should officials ignore those as well?

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Isn't that speculation, without any evidence?

That's why I began my sentence with "I believe". I did not state it as fact, only what I think may have occurred.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I agree that they should put some limits on this as they are probably a lot of people looking for errors or intentional infractions by golfers while they are playing.

One inch off and she loses $150,000 according to Orlando CBS sports reporter Jamie Seh. Doubt it that was intentional.

I'm really surprised that people keep talking about the money. I can assure you that the $150,000 difference in prize money meant nothing to her compare to the prestige of winning that event and everything that goes with it.

In the long run it may have a bit to do with money because the more major championships you win, the more your name is worth in terms of endorsements in the future.

Jack Nicklaus and Arnold Palmer made much more after their playing careers were over because of their accomplishments on the golf course. An extra $1000,000 by finishing second in a US Open back in the day meant nothing compared to the future income that wining the event might bring.

But it's more about prestige and legacy at that level.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Saw an interesting, but unlikely, point of view on another board. What if the emailer was a fan of another golfer and purposely waited til the next day to send the email so that there would also be the signing incorrect scorecard penalty in addition to the wrong place penalty?

Best solution is still to keep the competition between golfers and the committee and its officials. Spectators have no business other than watching.

It's entirely possible but are the officials supposed to ignore the information they have. What if a person in second place poisoned the leaders breakfast that morning causing her to contract food poisoning? If that's found out even weeks after the tournament, don't you think that the winner might be stripped of her title?

Of course she would probably be banned from all future competition and also see some jail time, but can the committee ignore information that is presented to them or that they learn about through factors outside of the event?

[bagboy]

I can only imagine the uproar if the same thing happens this Sunday at The Masters...

[retiredguy123]

That's why I began my sentence with "I believe". I did not state it as fact, only what I think may have occurred.
In your previous post, you said that she "might" have marked the ball and then realized that it was unnecessary. Isn't that the same kind of speculation that I made when I said her playing partners "may" have seen it? I think you are picking nits.

[JGVillages]

That's OK, but what about flagrant intentional violations that are reported after the fact? Should officials ignore those as well?

If it was an obvious intentionally flagrant violation then they can fine, take away the win or position they finished at, take away points (such as Fed X), or even suspend them. Many unintentional violations go by unnoticed weekly as the cameras can't be everywhere To spot and penalize after the fact is not good for golf.

[Challenger]

Many of the arguments here miss the big point. It is almost statistically impossible to replace a round ball on exactly the same spot from which it was removed. That being the case , how far is allowable? The only way to fully eliminate the issue is to not allow any touching of the ball once it has been put in play off the tee. without a penalty stroke or so.

[DonH57]

I would hope the proper authorities would investigate credible complaints of possible violations but I still don't think the sport should have input from armchair referees.

[retiredguy123]

Many of the arguments here miss the big point. It is almost statistically impossible to replace a round ball on exactly the same spot from which it was removed. That being the case , how far is allowable? The only way to fully eliminate the issue is to not allow any touching of the ball once it has been put in play off the tee. without a penalty stroke or so.
In general, you are correct, but, in this particular case, the violation is very clear. Watch the video.

[retiredguy123]

Phil Mickelson, in an attempt to defend Lexi Thompson, said that he knows guys on the tour who are loose with marking their ball, and who intentionally move the ball out of an impression or closer to the hole to gain an advantage. Also, Jack Nicklaus made similar comments, and said that it was handled in the locker room in his playing days. He also said that he didn't think she did it on purpose, but went on to give a detailed explanation about how cheating was handled when he played golf. If these guys think they are doing Lexi Thompson a favor, they need to think again. They made a good living playing golf, but would never make it as defense attorneys.

[Challenger]

In general, you are correct, but, in this particular case, the violation is very clear. Watch the video.

Did-- point is since no one can replace exactly, what is the allowable margin. ???

[retiredguy123]

Did-- point is since no one can replace exactly, what is the allowable margin. ???
In the rules, there is no allowable margin. But, having played competitive golf, this was not a proper marking and replacing of the ball. So far, I haven't heard any professional golfer or rules expert claim that it was. The best that they have said is that she made a mistake. To her credit, even she didn't claim that it was proper.

[John_W]

I watched the broadcast on Sunday when the ruling was made and they replayed the events of the day before. The emailer said he noticed that when Lexi marked her ball the coin was not visible, but when she replaced the ball the coin was visible.

For those who play golf, you know sometimes you'll mark your ball at an angle to keep the coin or marker out of another players line, such as Lexi was probably doing this time. The marker was placed at angle away from the camera, thus hiding the coin. When she placed the ball back, she put it directly in front of the coin, so the coin and the ball were both visible at the same time. The total distance was probably 1" at the most, more likely 1/2" she gained by placing her ball back incorrectly, all of this is about a putt of about 1 foot. In our games, it's what we call a gimme.

If they want a rules change, don't penalize a player 2 strokes for signing an incorrect score card. Because when they signed the card, it wasn't incorrect, that didn't happen until a day later when she was assessed the 2 shot penalty.

Had this happen last year, she wouldn't of even been playing on day 4. The old rule was if you signed an incorrect score card, you are disqualified completely. Booted, kicked out of the tournament. She actually came out ahead, in the eyes of some people.

[retiredguy123]

I watched the broadcast on Sunday when the ruling was made and they replayed the events of the day before. The emailer said he noticed that when Lexi marked her ball the coin was not visible, but when she replaced the ball the coin was visible.

For those who play golf, you know sometimes you'll mark your ball at an angle to keep the coin or marker out of another players line, such as Lexi was probably doing this time. The marker was placed at angle away from the camera, thus hiding the coin. When she placed the ball back, she put it directly in front of the coin, so the coin and the ball were both visible at the same time. The total distance was probably 1" at the most, more likely 1/2" she gained by placing her ball back incorrectly, all of this is about a putt of about 1 foot. In our games, it's what we call a gimme.

If they want a rules change, don't penalize a player 2 strokes for signing an incorrect score card. Because when they signed the card, it wasn't incorrect, that didn't happen until a day later when she was assessed the 2 shot penalty.

Had this happen last year, she wouldn't of even been playing on day 4. The old rule was if you signed an incorrect score card, you are disqualified completely. Booted, kicked out of the tournament. She actually came out ahead, in the eyes of some people.
Ok, what you described is a 2 stroke penalty because she did not replace the ball in the exact spot, according to the rules of golf. I have seen a lot of good golfers miss very short putts, especially if the ball is in a spike mark. That is why there is no such thing as a gimme in pro golf. Did you see Ernie Els on the first hole of last year's Masters? If you don't penalize a golfer for signing an incorrect score card, you may as well not have them sign it at all. Why do we want to downgrade golf to the level of other sports where anything goes as long as the referee doesn't see it?

[John_W]

Ok, what you described is a 2 stroke penalty because she did not replace the ball in the exact spot, according to the rules of golf. I have seen a lot of good golfers miss very short putts, especially if the ball is in a spike mark. That is why there is no such thing as a gimme in pro golf. Did you see Ernie Els on the first hole of last year's Masters? If you don't penalize a golfer for signing an incorrect score card, you may as well not have them sign it at all. Why do we want to downgrade golf to the level of other sports where anything goes as long as the referee doesn't see it?

Retired guy, take a breath, I said "in our game", you know the game we play here in TV. I didn't say the PGA should hand out gimmes. What Ernie Els did last year was a once in a career type event. Lexi's score card wasn't incorrect until the next day when she was assessed a penalty, I think they are incorrect in adding an additional penalty of top of the original penalty. If she didn't realize that she had marked the ball a 1/2" different, how can she penalize herself. If she had realized the fact, then she would of probably put the ball where it was originally 1/2" different. If a ball is in a spike mark, then mark your ball, remark the coin laterally, fix the spike mark, then move the coin back. Did you ever see anyone putt out of their own pitchmark? No.

Basically this is what happened. If the hole is at the 3 O'clock position, the marker is slightly off angle. When placing the ball back on the putting surface in front of the marker, would probably shorten the 12" putt by 1/4" to 1/2" inch.

http://lwmga.tripod.com/rulesgallery/ballmark1.jpg

[retiredguy123]

Retired guy, take a breath, I said "in our game", you know the game we play here in TV. I didn't say the PGA should hand out gimmes. What Ernie Els did last year was a once in a career type event. Lexi's score card wasn't incorrect until the next day when she was assessed a penalty, I think they are incorrect in adding an additional penalty of top of the original penalty. If she didn't realize that she had marked the ball a 1/2" different, how can she penalize herself. If she had realized the fact, then she would of probably put the ball where it was originally 1/2" different. If a ball is in a spike mark, then mark your ball, remark the coin laterally, fix the spike mark, then move the coin back. Did you ever see anyone putt out of their own pitchmark? No.

Basically this is what happened. If the hole is at the 3 O'clock position, the marker is slightly off angle. When placing the ball back on the putting surface in front of the marker, would probably shorten the 12" putt by 1/4" to 1/2" inch.

http://lwmga.tripod.com/rulesgallery/ballmark1.jpg
Ok, I'll take a breath. I understand and can agree with your position about the penalty for the scorecard. But, you are not allowed to repair spike marks, only ball marks. If your ball is in a spike mark, you are required to putt it from that spike mark, which can cause you to miss a short putt. If you read Phil Mickelson's comments, there are pro golfers who deliberately move their ball out of spike marks by improperly marking and replacing their ball. When I look at the video, it appears to me that the ball was in a spike mark before it was marked, but not when it was replaced. But, even if it wasn't, it is still a 2 stroke penalty. Now, I will take a breath and have a drink.

[Mikeod]

I have no problem with the penalty for playing from the wrong place. My beef is with the timing. I understand the committee is in a tough spot, i.e., they can't ignore a violation so a call-in or email can't be dismissed. However, like the requirement to file a claim or having to correct an error before teeing off on the next hole, there should be a cutoff point after which the round is official. That could be the start of the next round, or the publishing of pairings for the next round. Any violations brought to the committee after that do not change the scores. The player should be informed and warned. And monitored.

Consider that this player entered the last round of a major believing she had the lead and planned a strategy commensurate with that position. Fellow competitors, trailing, developed a strategy to make up the difference which may have involved more risky play. Consider that risky play may result in errors taking the player out of contention. Then, 2/3 through the round, it's all turned around. Player behind is now in the lead and vice versa. To me, the competition has been adulterated.

With what I suggest, both players enter the final round knowing exactly where they stand and can plan accordingly. And outside input is still considered albeit with a time limit.

[ColdNoMore]

I do see a small hole or mark on the video. But, what is really interesting on the video is that she picks up the ball and immediately replaces it without cleaning it or lining up the ball markings with the hole. These are the typical reasons why a player will mark the ball in the first place. So, it begs the question, why did she even mark the ball if she were not trying to improve her lie?

Trying to figure out a reasonable explanation of why she picked it up from the side (instead of from behind where she could accurately 'line it up'), then didn't clean it and clearly set it right back down immediately, closer to her...is what I'm struggling with also.

I really like Lexi and have been a huge fan of hers, but watching the video more than 20 times I can't help but conclude...that she was trying to avoid something she saw in her original line.

I really don't want to believe she was trying to cheat...but her actions were pretty strange in that instance.

As to calling the penalty so late, something definitely needs to be done...I'm just not sure what.

Since not all golfers have cameras trained on their every move/shot...it is not really a level playing field in situations like this.

The only good news is that at least she wasn't totally disqualified for signing an incorrect scorecard...since that rule was changed in 2016.

[600th Photo Sq]

Reading these comments and all the drama associated with " Lexi Gate " I am so Happy that I do not play golf.

It won't surprise me one bit that a collection will start any day now for a " Lexi Memorial Plaque "...in her Adoring Honor....sniffle....sniffle.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I feel really bad about what happened to Lexi Thompson, but I don't believe that the tournament committee had any option other then to do what they did. All players and all penalties must be treat equally in order to protect the field. Once a player is allowed to replace a ball an eighth of an inch out of position then a player will claim that a half inch out is only a bit more. At what point do they declare it to be a penalty.

I hope that Lexi gets over this because it could really damage her career if she allows it to affect her.

One thing that she could do is to make light of it and capitalize on a great marketing opportunity. She should license and sell the Lexi Thompson official ball marker. She'd make a bit of money and maybe help herself through this tough time.

[justjim]

Marketing her marker a "cool" idea. However, I doubt she needs the money but anything to take her mind off of what happen,