SSA did it again, and we all lose

[Guest]

Here's an example of what happens when the federal government runs social programs: bad decisions which hurt people and which have no legal basis ("it just seemed like a good idea", is the excuse). If only this was a rarity or the worst example......

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202433000979&src=EMC-Email&et=editorial&bu=Law.com&pt=LAWCOM%20Newswire&cn=NW_20090813&kw=Judge%20OKs%20%24500%20Million%20Settlement%20b y%20Social%20Security%20Administration

In this case, there's almost a (Change that to over half a) billion dollars in renumeration to claimants and legal fees to be paid by the Social Security Administration in this settlement - and it could have been much worse if it went to court.

This settlement must be paid fro SSA's operating account, and not through additional taxes or appropriations - that's the way it works when agencies are sued and lose/settle. So, SSA is now almost a (Change to well over a half)billion poorer because of bad/illegal decision-making, and the odds that anyone will be fired due to this is almost nil. What's sad is that this matter has dragged along for quite a while, with SSA knowing it was only a matter of time before the **** hit the fan. Now the hope is that the settlement will fly under the public radar.

And we wonder why SSA is going broke! And now "we" want this kind of management over everyone's health care - with the same "remarkable" decision-making and staffing?

[[Math corrected per Bimmrtl's comment - he's right! My morning math is never good!]]

[Guest]

According to the article the settlement total is for $500 million. Where did the $1 billion figure you alluded to come from?

The settlement amount appears to cover only compensatory damages to the plaintiffs, aside from the 483K in legal fees. So if the settlement amount is only what should have been paid to begin with, there is no additional expense to the operating account.

The settlement calls for SSA to make back payments to 80,000 people and restore benefits to about 200,000.

It goes without saying that class action lawsuits aren't limited to government entities. Gary Morse and the Villages agreed to a $50 million settlement of a class action lawsuit against them. I don't recall you calling them out for their "remarkable decision making and staffing" that lead to that settlement??

[Guest]

According to the article the settlement total is for $500 million. Where did the $1 billion figure you alluded to come from?

The settlement amount appears to cover only compensatory damages to the plaintiffs, aside from the 483K in legal fees. So if the settlement amount is only what should have been paid to begin with, there is no additional expense to the operating account.

The settlement calls for SSA to make back payments to 80,000 people and restore benefits to about 200,000.

It goes without saying that class action lawsuits aren't limited to government entities. Gary Morse and the Villages agreed to a $50 million settlement of a class action lawsuit against them. I don't recall you calling them out for their "remarkable decision making and staffing" that lead to that settlement??
Thanks! My math error! Total comes to $500,483,000 instead. Loser paid the legal fees. Still not a good number, as it should never have happened.

As far as the Morse family, I haven't been paying them for almost 50 years because the law requires me to. It would not surprise me if a couple of Morse advisers got fired because of their role in the lawsuit. SSA employees/appointees will just keep chugging along, with the worst happening is that their promotion potential may have diminished. No one will be fired, suspended or reduced in grade - and the potential for such "remarkable decision-making and staffing" continues merrily along.

[Guest]

to get rid of. I don't think the new administration has any intention of "business as usual" regarding the management of the SSA. If you have attended any of Obama's town meetings you would know that. I have to say this, that I never have seen such pettiness in this country from the prior administration's "fellows" so to speak as I have after this election. Normally, when a President is elected, the election is over and people rally to work as a group, and respect the elected President and give him a chance to show what he might be able to do if people would stop complaining and become part of the group that has a say in what's happening. Our current President walked into the biggest mess created in many, many years, and our wonderful past President and his administration, had plenty to do with that. I would usually just lurk and not say anything, but I am so tired of all the whining about what the Republicans would have done I could scream. I have voted for both sides, this time I voted for change, which is what this country needs. We are more likely to have the most government control in this, if the Republicans don't get off their whining and start working toward a compromise. That is the problem here, people need to sit down and work it out so everyone can breath a little easier.

[Guest]

Steve Z

Having spent 33 years working for a major corporation, I can vouch for the fact that lack of accountability is not confined to the Federal Government. It's easier to overlook incompetence than it is for many managers to address and document poor performance. So the just do nothing approach for the employee who "means well" is the easy way out.

Maybe SSA asked for a legal opinion on how to proceed from the likes of Monica Gooding or others from Pat Robertson's Regent University Law "School" who seemed to populate the Alberto Gonzalez justice department?

Having said that, the poster boy for lack of accountability is George "slam dunk" Tenet. Who can forget the detailed drawings of Sadam's alleged mobile biological trucks Collin Powell showed the UN. The stupid things never existed. Tenet kept his job and went on to receive the Presidential Medal of Freedom along with two other incompetents, Tommy Franks and Paul Bremer.

So much for accountability.

I'm not good at math in the morning either but you were up earlier.

[Guest]

to get rid of. I don't think the new administration has any intention of "business as usual" regarding the management of the SSA. If you have attended any of Obama's town meetings you would know that. I have to say this, that I never have seen such pettiness in this country from the prior administration's "fellows" so to speak as I have after this election. Normally, when a President is elected, the election is over and people rally to work as a group, and respect the elected President and give him a chance to show what he might be able to do if people would stop complaining and become part of the group that has a say in what's happening. Our current President walked into the biggest mess created in many, many years, and our wonderful past President and his administration, had plenty to do with that. I would usually just lurk and not say anything, but I am so tired of all the whining about what the Republicans would have done I could scream. I have voted for both sides, this time I voted for change, which is what this country needs. We are more likely to have the most government control in this, if the Republicans don't get off their whining and start working toward a compromise. That is the problem here, people need to sit down and work it out so everyone can breath a little easier.

Your post sounds like what the liberals did for 8 years after President Bush got elected! I didn't notice any "rally to work as a group" or "respect for the elected President". "The most government control in this" is exactly what the conservatives in this forum are rallying against! "Compromise" our health care, the cost of health care, who pays for the health care and rush a bill through just because OB wants it NOW! Not gonna give up this argument! The shoes on the other foot now and it doesn't feel good to you, OH WELL! :cus::cus::cus:

[Guest]

to get rid of. I don't think the new administration has any intention of "business as usual" regarding the management of the SSA. If you have attended any of Obama's town meetings you would know that. I have to say this, that I never have seen such pettiness in this country from the prior administration's "fellows" so to speak as I have after this election. Normally, when a President is elected, the election is over and people rally to work as a group, and respect the elected President and give him a chance to show what he might be able to do if people would stop complaining and become part of the group that has a say in what's happening. Our current President walked into the biggest mess created in many, many years, and our wonderful past President and his administration, had plenty to do with that. I would usually just lurk and not say anything, but I am so tired of all the whining about what the Republicans would have done I could scream. I have voted for both sides, this time I voted for change, which is what this country needs. We are more likely to have the most government control in this, if the Republicans don't get off their whining and start working toward a compromise. That is the problem here, people need to sit down and work it out so everyone can breath a little easier.

Why are you trying to turn this into an Obama persecution thread?

The SSA idiocy identified in this thread goes back as early as 1998. The stupidity of it lingering as long as it did, at the cost it eventually accrued is inherent in government agency operations, no matter who temporarily receives mail at 1600 PA Ave.

I don't care who voted for whom, or who adores whom. Government agencies, by virtue of the fact that almost every employee is "tenured" unless they do some thing criminal, are destined to always be inefficient, badly managed, and more concerned with spending their budgets to 100% than anything else. No administration has ever been able to change that, and none can short of disbanding entire agencies and departments.

[Guest]

Steve Z

Having spent 33 years working for a major corporation, I can vouch for the fact that lack of accountability is not confined to the Federal Government. It's easier to overlook incompetence than it is for many managers to address and document poor performance. So the just do nothing approach for the employee who "means well" is the easy way out.

Maybe SSA asked for a legal opinion on how to proceed from the likes of Monica Gooding or others from Pat Robertson's Regent University Law "School" who seemed to populate the Alberto Gonzalez justice department?

Having said that, the poster boy for lack of accountability is George "slam dunk" Tenet. Who can forget the detailed drawings of Sadam's alleged mobile biological trucks Collin Powell showed the UN. The stupid things never existed. Tenet kept his job and went on to receive the Presidential Medal of Freedom along with two other incompetents, Tommy Franks and Paul Bremer.

So much for accountability.

I'm not good at math in the morning either but you were up earlier.

Private industry has one tool than government doesn't - the ability to immediately fire someone who costs you a fortune out of stupidity. Have been private and government, and the former beats the latter e very day when it comes to accountability.

Thanks again for the double-check on the math. No one will ever accuse me of being a "morning person" :beer3:

[Guest]

please read response in-line:

and this is the kind of thing the President is trying to get rid of. I don't think the new administration has any intention of "business as usual" regarding the management of the SSA.
So say you...remember this headline "Social Security Administration Holds Training Seminar for 700 Employees at Luxury Resort in Arizona"...this was held so that the attendees who did go to the mtgs rather than the pool could learn to deal with death threats...and they relieved their stress from these threats by learning to dance in the mtgs...I believe this event occured some 6 mths into this new administration...right?

If you have attended any of Obama's town meetings you would know that. I have to say this, that I never have seen such pettiness in this country from the prior administration's "fellows" so to speak as I have after this election. Normally, when a President is elected, the election is over and people rally to work as a group, and respect the elected President and give him a chance to show what he might be able to do if people would stop complaining and become part of the group that has a say in what's happening.
And there was no pettiness displayed while a nation waited to find out who won the election between Bush and Gore? Weren't the Democrats the just say no party during Bush's term? What did they say when Bush mentioned changing Social Security? Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid have made it perfectly clear how much they seek to work as a group with the Republicans!

Our current President walked into the biggest mess created in many, many years, and our wonderful past President and his administration, had plenty to do with that.
So what's your point? Look what happened to George Bush after he took office..do the numbers 9-11 ring a bell? What President in modern history did not inherit some sort of mess?

I would usually just lurk and not say anything,
Please don't lurk! Please continue to express yourself! The best learning is done through meaningful debate and discussion.

but I am so tired of all the whining about what the Republicans would have done I could scream.
And I am so tired of watching those opposed to anything this administration proposes be demeaned and disparaged by the likes of Nancy Pelosi that I called my Congressman and told him to tell her to shut up because she is an embarassment to his party!

I have voted for both sides, this time I voted for change, which is what this country needs. We are more likely to have the most government control in this, if the Republicans don't get off their whining and start working toward a compromise.
WE DON'T WANT GOVERNMENT CONTROL - especially over our health care! And the administration does not want compromise! Checkmate!

That is the problem here, people need to sit down and work it out so everyone can breath a little easier.
Please tell that to Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid!

[Guest]

Republicrats and Demopublicans....they're all the same, just a different slant. We need people that will come down to earth and get a grip on what is the BIGGEST set of problems our country has faced in it's short (but probably soon top be shorter life).
Now is NOT the time to be thinking about spending more and expanding programs, it's about spending less and shrinking programs. People need to take a hard look at the real economic numbers not the manufactured junk coming out of Washington.

[Guest]

Republicrats and Demopublicans....they're all the same, just a different slant. We need people that will come down to earth and get a grip on what is the BIGGEST set of problems our country has faced in it's short (but probably soon top be shorter life).
Now is NOT the time to be thinking about spending more and expanding programs, it's about spending less and shrinking programs. People need to take a hard look at the real economic numbers not the manufactured junk coming out of Washington.

Elected officials on all levels of government - but especially those we send to Washington - need to take a real hard look at the effects of their actions on all of us. That is reality!

You are right [maybe I should say correct ;)] to suggest that it is time to reduce spending and shrink programs; but that is not how to get re-elected. That just doesn't happen in Washington.

Health care in this country does need reform - but not with the legislation that is being proposed now. The issue has been studied for ages and there are other solutions in those studies gathering dust in some basement storage area. This Congress would be better off studying the studies and developing incremental changes that impact the multiple facets that need to change in order to develop overall change.

Get Rid of Incumbent Politicians

[Guest]

Thanks! My math error! Total comes to $500,483,000 instead. Loser paid the legal fees. Still not a good number, as it should never have happened.

No, you're still not getting it.

There is no additional $500,000,000 cost. SSA is just giving the claimants the money that was due them to begin with.

The only thing that this has cost SSA is the $483k in attorney fees.

So, your original point that government ineptitude cost taxpayers a billion dollars - later corrected to only 1/2 billion dollars - in realty didn't even cost 1/2 million dollars.

I guess it isn't just government bureaucrats who make enormous errors.

[Guest]

Hello
Maybe this is not right,:bowdown: but I have to say just a few things. This might not be the right way to think, however, I am a govermental employee and have also worked for a big corp. Both need to be accountable. Maybe they need to stop using the Peter Principal and remember the fish stinks from the head to the tail....no hurt feeling to anyone just my way of thinking. The employee's in goverment only due what they are told to do, just like any other company, when the boss screw up they use the peter principal and the employee is shown the door.

[Guest]

No, you're still not getting it.

There is no additional $500,000,000 cost. SSA is just giving the claimants the money that was due them to begin with.

The only thing that this has cost SSA is the $483k in attorney fees.

So, your original point that government ineptitude cost taxpayers a billion dollars - later corrected to only 1/2 billion dollars - in realty didn't even cost 1/2 million dollars.

I guess it isn't just government bureaucrats who make enormous errors.
When it's money due you and you don't get it when you're supposed to, you get hurt. When you finally get it, it will be with interest (that should never have happened). Then their are the attorney fees.

Yes, it did cost the 1/2 Billion, and we don't know how much of the money wa "should have been paid" and how much is more-or-less punitive moneys in the settlement.

It should not have happened. People were harmed, Extra money was paid to hush it up. And the government agency could afford to drag it out forever, increasing costs at every step because there's no incentive to do anything than cover butts. Mistakes are rarely admitted, and all uf us who pay into SSA just lost a little more because of it.

The final additional costs to SSA? We know it's 1/2 million in legal fees paid to opposing counsel for this case alone. There's still the government legal costs (which is at least as much). Also, the "interest and penalties" which is unknown. And this is just one case I stumbled across. Not encouraging.....

[Guest]

I'm sorry I intruded.

It won't happen again.

[Guest]

You surely did not intrude. Despite several of us having a different point of view your expression of your feelings gave us a chance to express ours - and we are all entitled to our opinions.

Without discussion and debate we learn nothing worth knowing. Please stick around and share your opinions...even if they are different than mine...they are yours and that makes them important enough for me.