Death Panels are Real - See this video

[Guest]

(http://wadesayswhat.wordpress.com/2009/08/21/no-death-panels-in-government-run-health-care-heres-the-video/)

[Guest]

Maybe it was just my connect??

btk

[Guest]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ja8h2wxTzJY&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usnews.com%2Farticles%2Fnews %2Fwashington-whispers%2F2009%2F08%2F21%2Fad-health-insurance-companies-are-death-panels.html&feature=player_embedded#t=30

[Guest]

The video tells it like it really is, without the blinders. The private insurers decide who lives and who dies- not the government. The private insurers determine whether you are worthy of being insured based on a pre-existing condition, not the government. Finally, the private insurers, not the government, choose not to insure individuals with the same or similar policies that large corporations are able to obtain.

Why are these death panels being defended over the health of the American people? If we forget the public option, how many of you wuld be willing to require that all health companies be required to offer uniform policy coverage based on premium payments rather than corporate affiliation?

(Of course, I'm still keeping in tort reform, to avoid defensive medicine. And reforms of Medicare, VA benefits, and Medicaid to keep them from collapsing in debt.)

But seriously, would any of you support an across the board premium level? It would keep insurance under private profit-makers, executives could still keep their multi-million dollar salaries, but still allow everyonw in the U.S. to buy insurance on an even playing field.

[Guest]

The private insurance companies and some doctors are the real death panels.

Here's a personal true story. Years ago, I wasn't married yet, my dad came down with some kind of stomach problem, that subsequently caused an infection. I was taking care of my dad because he had already suffered a stroke, but was on the mend from that. I asked his doc about medication. He gives me a prescription and as I'm taking the piece of paper, I commented, "OK, so this is the best." He said to me (I swear to God) "Oh this is good, but not the best. The best would cost you about $450 for one week and I know you can't afford that and his insurance won't cover it." I was shaken to the core. Naive! He wasn't even going to tell me about it!!! I was amazed. Of course, I lit into him and told him to write out the prescription for that and let ME worry about how to pay for it. It was NOT his call. That was the first time I was aware of a different healthcare system for the rich as opposed to middle class or lower.

Another incident, with my dad, after his stroke... first, they sent him home on a stretcher because his insurance would only allow X amount of days, second, they only allowed a home nurse to help me ONCE a week. She was an angel. He was not yet on Medicare. She's the one that told me that if he was on Medicare (government run) and an AARP or supplement, she could have helped me three times a week.

I am completely disgusted with private insurance. You can all have them. Yes, they are the true Death Panels!!!!

BTW, my hubby turns 65 in a week and he's excited about being on Medicare. I still have quite a few years to go. But just to put our cost in perspective, after moving to The Villages two years ago, Unicare had told us we were covered. We moved here and found out that now Unicare did NOT cover Florida. After searching down many avenues, we went back through the AVMA and got Etnea. OK, that has cost us $1,700 A MONTH for the last two years with a $5,000 deductible. That is outrageous! I'll take the Public Option in a heartbeat! No pun intended!

Don't even let me get started on pre-existing conditions! :swear:

[Guest]

The private insurers determine whether you are worthy of being insured based on a pre-existing condition, not the government.
Do you really want people to be able to just walk up and buy insurance regardless of a pre-existing condition? If you think insurance is costly now, just wait until this is mandated. What healthy person would pay for an insurance policy if he knew he could get one if he ever developed any serious medical condition? The result would be that only sick people would have insurance. Can you imagine the cost for that?

[Guest]

I am completely disgusted with private insurance. You can all have them. Yes, they are the true Death Panels!!!!
Don't look now but governement insurance (VA) is run the same way. My father was only able to get VA-approved medications. The "good" stuff was not approved.

[Guest]

Isn't this also the kind of thing that should be fixed??? Are you happy with the status quo? I'm not. My husband had a Veterinarian clinic and they use many of the same "human" medicines. I know for a fact, that one bottle of a medication might cost you $75 for 30 tablets. Do you know what my husband would pay for a huge jar? Over 1,000 pills. $8 dollars. Yes! That's it. $8.00 dollars! You don't see something wrong here??? We do, indeed, need healthcare reform, including regulation of the pharmaceutical companies.

Why don't the crazies stand up at town hall meetings and yell about this instead of fictional "death panels." :oops:

[Guest]

Isn't this also the kind of thing that should be fixed??? Are you happy with the status quo? I'm not. My husband had a Veterinarian clinic and they use many of the same "human" medicines. I know for a fact, that one bottle of a medication might cost you $75 for 30 tablets. Do you know what my husband would pay for a huge jar? Over 1,000 pills. $8 dollars. Yes! That's it. $8.00 dollars! You don't see something wrong here??? We do, indeed, need healthcare reform, including regulation of the pharmaceutical companies.

Why don't the crazies stand up at town hall meetings and yell about this instead of fictional "death panels." :oops:

Maybe we need that type of reform, maybe not. However, can you point to the specific parts of any proposed bill that would get the medication to the public for anywhere close to $8? I haven't. Remember, just because you see a problem that needs "reform" and just because a bill is labeled as "reform" doesn't mean that the bill will address your concerns.

[Guest]

The private insurance companies and some doctors are the real death panels.

Here's a personal true story. Years ago, I wasn't married yet, my dad came down with some kind of stomach problem, that subsequently caused an infection. I was taking care of my dad because he had already suffered a stroke, but was on the mend from that. I asked his doc about medication. He gives me a prescription and as I'm taking the piece of paper, I commented, "OK, so this is the best." He said to me (I swear to God) "Oh this is good, but not the best. The best would cost you about $450 for one week and I know you can't afford that and his insurance won't cover it." I was shaken to the core. Naive! He wasn't even going to tell me about it!!! I was amazed. Of course, I lit into him and told him to write out the prescription for that and let ME worry about how to pay for it. It was NOT his call. That was the first time I was aware of a different healthcare system for the rich as opposed to middle class or lower.

Another incident, with my dad, after his stroke... first, they sent him home on a stretcher because his insurance would only allow X amount of days, second, they only allowed a home nurse to help me ONCE a week. She was an angel. He was not yet on Medicare. She's the one that told me that if he was on Medicare (government run) and an AARP or supplement, she could have helped me three times a week.

I am completely disgusted with private insurance. You can all have them. Yes, they are the true Death Panels!!!!

BTW, my hubby turns 65 in a week and he's excited about being on Medicare. I still have quite a few years to go. But just to put our cost in perspective, after moving to The Villages two years ago, Unicare had told us we were covered. We moved here and found out that now Unicare did NOT cover Florida. After searching down many avenues, we went back through the AVMA and got Etnea. OK, that has cost us $1,700 A MONTH for the last two years with a $5,000 deductible. That is outrageous! I'll take the Public Option in a heartbeat! No pun intended!

Don't even let me get started on pre-existing conditions! :swear:You have identified a host of issues with the way the COMMODITY of health care is paid for in the U.S.
Although a "public option" would definitely help situations like you found yourself in after you moved to Florida (I am in the SAME situation right now) I can assure you that the formulary (the list of meds that are 'covered') will be quite limited.... ie 'restricted'. The current Medicare part D formulary is IMPOSSIBLE to figure out because there are almost an infinite number of plans. The other nightmare in the current problem is the "do-nut hole". Not a big deal if you have a few million in the bank.... but a catastrophe for the ave American who suddenly finds their monthly drug costs go from 100 dollars to more tan 1000 dollars overnight. My opinion has always been a single payor system would be so much less fragmented than the current profit driven commodity system. BUT, who can we trust to develop and run such a system? The same clowns who drove the US Postal system into the ground and created the US Tax Code? Now I say, "be careful for what you wish for?" If the "public option" becomes real I suspect that private health ins will ultimately disappear. The counterpoint to that concern is the argument that UPS and FED Ex compete quite well with the Postal Service but I don't see that as a good comparison. I vote for studying the alternatives, debating the alternatives and NOT frantically rushing into a plan that Congress hasn't even read. No wonder people are screaming.

[Guest]

highlights that UPS and FedEx are better run than the USPS!!!
It serves as a vivid reminder that the powers that be in the US government know and understand the USPS is inefficient and losing money (costing taxpayers), that Amtrak is losing money (ditto paranthetic above), that Social Security is in jeopardy, that Medicare is abused by profiteers, that the pharmaceutical industry is incestuous with the government to not help we the people...and of course health insurance abuse or inadequacy. Yet NOTHING has been done to attempt to fix any of these KNOWN problems costing billions and billions.

Reform is a catch all suck you in phrase having no programs to fix any of the above...yet proposing to add _ _'X' _ _ (pick a number of millions) to the already ailing programs. Verbal inuendo with no specifics.

All the examples I have ever seen or heard from anybody any where are extremely good examples of what is wrong with the current system and as has been very wisely presented above, no where in the so called catch all "reform" is there ANYTHING pointing to fix what ails the examples.

The existing ills of the system should serve as a warning to all not a incentive to buy reform!!!

Obama and the current administration and the all singing all dancing WH are trying to convince you they can put dimensions and location on a puff of smoke....why would anybody buy anything from these people?

The real question is will we be better off in 5 years...10 years? The answer will be like the guessing of the cloud.

Fix existing programs......first then determine what needs "reform".

btk

[Guest]

Do you really want people to be able to just walk up and buy insurance regardless of a pre-existing condition? If you think insurance is costly now, just wait until this is mandated. What healthy person would pay for an insurance policy if he knew he could get one if he ever developed any serious medical condition? The result would be that only sick people would have insurance. Can you imagine the cost for that?

Yes, I am one of those with a pre-existing condition. I would love to be able to get health insurance in Florida - we would be there already! There is a federal law in place that prevents transfer of private health insurance across state lines.
I did not cause my pre-existing condition, it was birth defects. I take care of myself and am a very compliant patient. I do have inusurance thru a high risk pool at over $6400/year plus a $2500 deductible, co-pays, medication co-pays, etc. And I am happy to pay for my insurance!
I also know that if you are lucky enough to be healthy - that can change in an instant!
If you are healthy, bless your lucky stars. And if you can get health insurance, bless those stars too.

[Guest]

Do you really want people to be able to just walk up and buy insurance regardless of a pre-existing condition? If you think insurance is costly now, just wait until this is mandated. What healthy person would pay for an insurance policy if he knew he could get one if he ever developed any serious medical condition? The result would be that only sick people would have insurance. Can you imagine the cost for that?

Yes, I am one of those with a pre-existing condition. I would love to be able to get health insurance in Florida - we would be there already! There is a federal law in place that prevents transfer of private health insurance across state lines.
I did not cause my pre-existing condition, it was birth defects. I take care of myself and am a very compliant patient. I do have inusurance thru a high risk pool at over $6400/year plus a $2500 deductible, co-pays, medication co-pays, etc. And I am happy to pay for my insurance!
I also know that if you are lucky enough to be healthy - that can change in an instant!
If you are healthy, bless your lucky stars. And if you can get health insurance, bless those stars too.

[Guest]

Do you really want people to be able to just walk up and buy insurance regardless of a pre-existing condition? If you think insurance is costly now, just wait until this is mandated. What healthy person would pay for an insurance policy if he knew he could get one if he ever developed any serious medical condition? The result would be that only sick people would have insurance. Can you imagine the cost for that?

A very good point! My best friend of 38 years never had health insurance, he didn't want to spend his money on it and gambled that he wouldn't get sick. He was diagnosed with leukemia 10 years ago, passed away in April, and spent a fortune out of pocket before getting on Medicare. You bet he would have bought insurance after his diagnosis if he could!

He and his now divorced wife also scammed Medicaid out of fifteen thousand dollars for an operation for their son buy claiming that he had left her, yet he never left the family home. He accomplished what many people do to pay for health care without insurance. You wonder why many of us don't trust the government to run health care?

[Guest]

A very good point! My best friend of 38 years never had health insurance, he didn't want to spend his money on it and gambled that he wouldn't get sick. He was diagnosed with leukemia 10 years ago, passed away in April, and spent a fortune out of pocket before getting on Medicare. You bet he would have bought insurance after his diagnosis if he could!

He and his now divorced wife also scammed Medicaid out of fifteen thousand dollars for an operation for their son buy claiming that he had left her, yet he never left the family home. He accomplished what many people do to pay for health care without insurance. You wonder why many of us don't trust the government to run health care?

Gnu, I'm sorry, but I do not get the point of this post at all. I'm confused. Your friend could afford private insurance, but gambled on his health, then went broke??? Again, what does this have to do with the millions of people that want health insurance but cannot afford it?

Now he has "scammed" Medicad for an operation for his son?

Wellllllll.... I'd say I'd trust the government more than your friend!!! OK, snide remark... taken back.

Again, my concerns are for the millions of hard working people, or people with pre-existing conditions that legitimately cannot afford or get decent health care. Sorry, but the example you gave here doesn't equate.

Rshoffer, I can't buy the "Medicare Part D Formulary is impossible to figure out" as a viable argument. Maybe some people should quite trying to figure out if Obama was born in American and sit down and figure this out with the same enthusiasm.

Also, why is the USPS, Fed-Ex and UPS a bad example??? It's creative competition! We need more of that in this country. Bring it back!!! It is what made this country great! :oops:

[Guest]

The point is that if an insurance company is not allowed to discriminate against people with pre-existing conditions, there would be millions of people like Gnu's friend who would opt to not buy it, knowing that if they ever got sick they could opt in at that point. It would make economic sense to play it that way. It would be like allowing people to buy hurricane insurance the day before a hurricane is projected to strike. In either event, you are limiting the pool of people who have the insurance to those who are expected to make a claim. This defeats the purpose of insurance which is to spread the risk evenly across a much broader base - most of whom will never have to make a major claim - hence keeping the cost of insurance low for everyone.

[Guest]

The point is that if an insurance company is not allowed to discriminate against people with pre-existing conditions, there would be millions of people like Gnu's friend who would opt to not buy it, knowing that if they ever got sick they could opt in at that point. It would make economic sense to play it that way. It would be like allowing people to buy hurricane insurance the day before a hurricane is projected to strike. In either event, you are limiting the pool of people who have the insurance to those who are expected to make a claim. This defeats the purpose of insurance which is to spread the risk evenly across a much broader base - most of whom will never have to make a major claim - hence keeping the cost of insurance low for everyone.

You pose a good argument, but I believe that what your proposing would not be possible. There would be regulations in place. Do you really think this hasn't been considered??? Also, if you think private insurance is so low, would you like to pay our bill every month... to the tune of $1,700! Please let me know. ;)

[Guest]

Also, why is the USPS, Fed-Ex and UPS a bad example??? It's creative competition! We need more of that in this country. Bring it back!!! It is what made this country great!
A key component of the Republican proposal for health reform is just that - allow for more competition among insurance companies by allowing them to more freely compete across state lines. Alas, the Dems are against this for some reason.

[Guest]

Also, if you think private insurance is so low, would you like to pay our bill every month... to the tune of $1,700! Please let me know.

I don't know the particlars of your insurance plan. However, can you imagine how expensive your insurance would be if a significant number of the healthy people who are paying into it decided that $1,700 per month was too much to pay and decided to opt out and wait for a serious condition like cancer or a heart condition to arise before buying back in?

[Guest]

You pose a good argument, but I believe that what your proposing would not be possible. There would be regulations in place.
Yes, it is possible to get around this by making the purchase of health insurance mandatory for everyone. This is what they did in Mass. However, unless I missed it, I don't recall seeing anything about mandatory coverage in the Dem plans. This just goes to show how things need to slow down a bit and go about health care reform with more thought. Instead, Obama is pushing them to meet unrealistic deadlines and the result will be chaos. Thank goodness for the Blue Dogs who are throwing some impedance into the process. It would also be nice if Pelosi and Reid gave the Republicans a seat at the table to get their input.

[Guest]

Gnu, I'm sorry, but I do not get the point of this post at all. I'm confused. Your friend could afford private insurance, but gambled on his health, then went broke??? Again, what does this have to do with the millions of people that want health insurance but cannot afford it?

Now he has "scammed" Medicad for an operation for his son?

Wellllllll.... I'd say I'd trust the government more than your friend!!! OK, snide remark... taken back.

Again, my concerns are for the millions of hard working people, or people with pre-existing conditions that legitimately cannot afford or get decent health care. Sorry, but the example you gave here doesn't equate.

Rshoffer, I can't buy the "Medicare Part D Formulary is impossible to figure out" as a viable argument. Maybe some people should quite trying to figure out if Obama was born in American and sit down and figure this out with the same enthusiasm.

Also, why is the USPS, Fed-Ex and UPS a bad example??? It's creative competition! We need more of that in this country. Bring it back!!! It is what made this country great! :oops:When I see a pt in my office who had Medicare Part D, and I ask them which particular plan (there are dozens) they have and what is and isn't covered on their formulary and/or if they have a tiered deductable they usually look at me with a blank stare and have no clue. Then, typically they call back in 24 hrs and say, "My plan doesn't cover Cymbalta...or, that Cymbalta has an 80 dollar co-pay..." Then I ask, well what IS covered ??? and they reply, "I don't know, maybe the pharmacist knows... and round and round we go. So how do docs avoid the merry-go-round? Prescribe generics.... always a low co-pay and almost always covered, regardless of the plan. It's behavior modification at it
's best. Then many say... "but, I can't take generics...' and we're back on the merry-go round again.

the reason the USPS, Fed Ex is a poor comparison is when it comes to health care... The Feds will establish endless rules and guidelines for the pvt industry to follow... it will be like a sporting event where the referee also has a team on the field and is that teams coach.

[Guest]

Gnu, I'm sorry, but I do not get the point of this post at all. I'm confused. Your friend could afford private insurance, but gambled on his health, then went broke??? Again, what does this have to do with the millions of people that want health insurance but cannot afford it?

Now he has "scammed" Medicad for an operation for his son?

Wellllllll.... I'd say I'd trust the government more than your friend!!! OK, snide remark... taken back.

Again, my concerns are for the millions of hard working people, or people with pre-existing conditions that legitimately cannot afford or get decent health care. Sorry, but the example you gave here doesn't equate.

Rshoffer, I can't buy the "Medicare Part D Formulary is impossible to figure out" as a viable argument. Maybe some people should quite trying to figure out if Obama was born in American and sit down and figure this out with the same enthusiasm.

Also, why is the USPS, Fed-Ex and UPS a bad example??? It's creative competition! We need more of that in this country. Bring it back!!! It is what made this country great! :oops:

It has everything to do with the millions that don't have health insurance because they won't spend their own money on it. The point is directed at the fact that all to many people would not buy health insurance until after they were diagnosed with an illness. For insurance, whether government or private, to accept pre existing conditions is not just foolish but stupid.

Yes he did go broke, spending all the money he accumulated in his life of not buying health insurance, tens of thousands of dollars. It was said in this thread that people wouldn't buy insurance until AFTER they came down with an illness and the case I point out shows an example of someone that did it. He didn't agree to meaningful medical care until the government (you and I) was paying for it.

We CAN"T trust the government to have a clue as to how their (our) money is being spent. My friends example showed how easy it is for the Government Medicare program to be ripped off. I did trust my friend with thousands of my dollars in unsecured loans and he paid me back every dime. What he and all to many people think, is that ripping off the government (taking from the big pot you and I provide) is OK. It's not personal to them. In their mind government SHOULD provide them with their needs and they shouldn't have to spend their dollars on something they don't want to spend it on.

I hope this answer's you questions on relevancy and shows that many people that say they can't afford insurance really mean they don't want to spend THEIR money on anything they feel the government should do for them. There are resources available to everyone that needs health care, if truly in need.

[Guest]

This from INVESTORS BUSINESS DAILY.....

In discussing this very thing (individual mandate to purchase insurance), and I am pretty sure that mandate is in the proposed bill....
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"The individual mandate is essential to the Democrats' health care vision because it's closely linked to provisions to prevent insurers from cherry-picking healthy customers or charging untenable rates to those with pre-existing conditions.

Passing insurance reforms without a mandate would encourage people to wait until they are sick to get coverage and could destroy the economics of the industry. But requiring the young and healthy to sign up would give insurers an influx of profitable customers to offset the risk of covering more people in relatively poorer health."
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And of course...this mandate was criticized during the campaign by our President.

Bottom line...
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"But the government mandate to buy insurance that is central to the Democratic plans means that a slimmer-looking health bill might be largely an illusion; more of the overhaul's burden would shift to the middle class, which could be required to pay a whole lot more to buy less in the way of coverage."

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/ArticlePrint.aspx?id=504193

On this same subject, the Washington Post this weekend had an article questioning whether it is constitutional for the federal government to mandate that we buy insurance.....
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"President Obama has called for a serious and reasoned debate about his plans to overhaul the health-care system. Any such debate must include the question of whether it is constitutional for the federal government to adopt and implement the president's proposals. Consider one element known as the "individual mandate," which would require every American to have health insurance, if not through an employer then by individual purchase. This requirement would particularly affect young adults, who often choose to save the expense and go without coverage. Without the young to subsidize the old, a comprehensive national health system will not work. But can Congress require every American to buy health insurance? "

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/21/AR2009082103033.html?hpid=opinionsbox1