Lumpy Donut

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I played golf today with someone who blamed my missed putts on the lumpy donut.

On the first hole I missed a six foot putt simply because I didn't hit it hard enough. She walked over to the hole and said, "We have decided that when they make new holes, they pull up the ground around the hole and make a mound." She then, to my horror, proceeded to stomp around and on the hole to flatten out this mound. She caved in the nice sharp edges of the hole making it more likely that a good putt will lip out.

I worked at golf courses for 35 years and I have seen tens of thousands of holes cut in the greens. I've heard other people say the same thing and I can tell you that this is pretty much never the case. When a worker cuts a new hole, it is possible that the turf is pulled up into a little mound around the hole. But then the worker must set the cup. To do this, he uses a device that is a metal disc about a foot in diameter. It has a hole in the middle and a 4-1/4" tube that extends about an inch from the bottom and then is reduced to 4-1/8" for another inch or so. The cup is placed over this tube and slid into the hole. The worker then steps on the disc to pus the cup all the way down and flatten the area around the hole.

Now, Dave Pelz has come up the the term "Lumpy Donut" for a hole that has a slight mound around it. According to Pelz, this mound comes not from pulling out the hole cutter during the hole cutting process, but from golfers stepping around the hole to retrieve their balls.

Golfers tend not to step on the hole when taking their ball out, but rather 6"-10" around the hole. What happens is that the area from 6"to 10" away from the hole becomes depressed but the area inside that 6"-10" circle remains at the same height.

The solution to this is not to step on the hole caving it in as my companion did this morning. Nor is it to blame this lumpy donut for you missed putts. Research has shown that a putt that is going at a speed that would carry is 15" beyond the hole, if it misses, has the best chance of going in. This is because a putt going that speed will not be affected by any imperfections in the green including the lumpy donut. A putt going faster than that can lip out more easily so 15" past the hole is the perfect speed.

I play with a lot of people who either hit their putts to hard or too soft and when it doesn't go in say that they got robbed.

I had two short putts that went right across the face of the hole today and both times, I was told that I got robbed. Both times I replied that I didn't get robbed, I just didn't hit the ball hard enough. A bad golf shot is the fault of the player 99.99999% of the time. I get amused at people that blame the course and everything else for their bad shots.

[alwann]

I remember reading a story about Jack Nicklaus and his relatively weak short game. When he'd hit a pitch shot and leave it short, Jack would walk up close to the pin and fix a ball mark -- real or imaginary -- like it was his and the ball had backed up. Hole donuts are like that -- a great way to excuse a missed putt. Especially for retired cops.

[wjk1912totv]

As per Yogi Berra said "99% of the putts that are short don't go in the hole"!

[CWGUY]

:gc: Never heard the term "Lumpy Donut" but have heard it called "The Villages Cup". :icon_wink:

[MikeV]

The Villages Cup is real and robbing us of good scores. I think.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

The Villages Cup is real and robbing us of good scores. I think.

The lumpy donut can occur but usually after many foursomes have played through. It has minimal effect on a putt that is hit at the proper speed.

And stomping on and around the cup is something that should never be done.

I honestly believe that everyone should have to go to a rules and etiquette course before they are allowed to play golf here.

[Bjeanj]

And all this time I thought it was my bad aim!

[Biker Dog]

The Villages Cup is real and robbing us of good scores. I think.

Totally agree. I worked at courses in the Villages and the new employees were not trained correctly in setting the cup.:wave:

[Taltarzac725]

Live Life and Get Off Your Putt: What Is A Lumpy Donut ? (http://golfandgetoffyourputt.blogspot.com/2007/09/what-is-lumpy-donut.html)

Found a good link.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Live Life and Get Off Your Putt: What Is A Lumpy Donut ? (http://golfandgetoffyourputt.blogspot.com/2007/09/what-is-lumpy-donut.html)

Found a good link.

I have a few disagreements with some minor points in this article, but overall, it's pretty good. 15"-17" past the hole and the lumpy donut has almost zero effect.

I played nine holes with a person a while ago and she pulled every single short putt to the left and blamed it on the mound every time. Every putt she hit started left of the hole and missed left.

At the end of the round, I just mentioned that it was funny that the mound didn't affect any of my putts. I had a particularly good putting round and made every putt within eight feet and a 35 footer as well.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Totally agree. I worked at courses in the Villages and the new employees were not trained correctly in setting the cup.:wave:

Do they not use a cup setter?

https://www.standardgolf.com/ecommerce/p/cup-setter-3010

[fred53]

I played golf today with someone who blamed my missed putts on the lumpy donut.

On the first hole I missed a six foot putt simply because I didn't hit it hard enough. She walked over to the hole and said, "We have decided that when they make new holes, they pull up the ground around the hole and make a mound." She then, to my horror, proceeded to stomp around and on the hole to flatten out this mound. She caved in the nice sharp edges of the hole making it more likely that a good putt will lip out.

I worked at golf courses for 35 years and I have seen tens of thousands of holes cut in the greens. I've heard other people say the same thing and I can tell you that this is pretty much never the case. When a worker cuts a new hole, it is possible that the turf is pulled up into a little mound around the hole. But then the worker must set the cup. To do this, he uses a device that is a metal disc about a foot in diameter. It has a hole in the middle and a 4-1/4" tube that extends about an inch from the bottom and then is reduced to 4-1/8" for another inch or so. The cup is placed over this tube and slid into the hole. The worker then steps on the disc to pus the cup all the way down and flatten the area around the hole.

Now, Dave Pelz has come up the the term "Lumpy Donut" for a hole that has a slight mound around it. According to Pelz, this mound comes not from pulling out the hole cutter during the hole cutting process, but from golfers stepping around the hole to retrieve their balls.

Golfers tend not to step on the hole when taking their ball out, but rather 6"-10" around the hole. What happens is that the area from 6"to 10" away from the hole becomes depressed but the area inside that 6"-10" circle remains at the same height.

The solution to this is not to step on the hole caving it in as my companion did this morning. Nor is it to blame this lumpy donut for you missed putts. Research has shown that a putt that is going at a speed that would carry is 15" beyond the hole, if it misses, has the best chance of going in. This is because a putt going that speed will not be affected by any imperfections in the green including the lumpy donut. A putt going faster than that can lip out more easily so 15" past the hole is the perfect speed.

I play with a lot of people who either hit their putts to hard or too soft and when it doesn't go in say that they got robbed.

I had two short putts that went right across the face of the hole today and both times, I was told that I got robbed. Both times I replied that I didn't get robbed, I just didn't hit the ball hard enough. A bad golf shot is the fault of the player 99.99999% of the time. I get amused at people that blame the course and everything else for their bad shots.

courses mowing greens and setting pins. I can tell you without reservation that many of the people setting pins on the exec. courses do not play golf. I can also tell you they do not use the plate that is "supposed" to be used to set the cup in to the proper depth. They also, while twisting the hole cutter to get it in, do not always twist it to get the plug out....therein lies the mounding of the grass surrounding the hole. You owe someone an apology,

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

OK, I played nine holes at Mira Mesa today and I missed three makable putts. Two I didn't hit with enough speed and they broke across the face of the hole and one just broke more than I thought it would.

Because of this thread, I took a 4 foot steel ruler with me to check of the lumpy donut or the Villages cup.

Here are the photos that I took after missing those putts. One is the second hole, one is the fourth hole and one it the ninth. I made an eight footer on eight with just enough speed to get it to the hole. The Villages cup seemed to have no effect on that one.
http://i1260.photobucket.com/albums/ii564/Winston1027/IMG_5091_zpsw84bcttr.jpg (http://s1260.photobucket.com/user/Winston1027/media/IMG_5091_zpsw84bcttr.jpg.html)
http://i1260.photobucket.com/albums/ii564/Winston1027/IMG_5093_zpsv80ilu3f.jpg (http://s1260.photobucket.com/user/Winston1027/media/IMG_5093_zpsv80ilu3f.jpg.html)http://i1260.photobucket.com/albums/ii564/Winston1027/IMG_5096_zpspuannnhp.jpg (http://s1260.photobucket.com/user/Winston1027/media/IMG_5096_zpspuannnhp.jpg.html)

I did not miss those putts because of the Villages Cup. It's more likely that they were missed due to the rotation of the earth.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

courses mowing greens and setting pins. I can tell you without reservation that many of the people setting pins on the exec. courses do not play golf. I can also tell you they do not use the plate that is "supposed" to be used to set the cup in to the proper depth. They also, while twisting the hole cutter to get it in, do not always twist it to get the plug out....therein lies the mounding of the grass surrounding the hole. You owe someone an apology,

You can tell me this without reservation. Do you have information to back that up? Have you witnessed this?

I don't owe anyone an apology. The woman who stomped all over the hole owes the golf course superintendent and all of the golfer behind her and apology.

I'll continue to post photos wen I miss putts because of The Villages cup.

Even if the lumpy donut effect is real, and in some cases it might be, a putt hit so that it would go 17" past the hole would still go in.

By the way, I notice that a lot of these people that complain about The Villages cup have no problem walking all of other players lines as well as their own. I also notice that there is never any comment about the mound when putts go in.

[2BNTV]

As per Yogi Berra said "99% of the putts that are short don't go in the hole"!

:1rotfl:

I'm a big Yogi Berra fan. I'm sure Yogi didn't said this but you have a great sense of humor! You should try comedy writing.

Remember, "you have to go to other people's funerals or they won't come to yours". Yogi Berra

[plrbr1120]

OH GREAT...another thing to worry about in golfing. First I thought it was the clubs...changed them. Then the balls...must be out of round. Even tried different tees....no luck. Then you have the wind. Pushes the balls left or right. LOL Still enjoy the game !!!

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

OH GREAT...another thing to worry about in golfing. First I thought it was the clubs...changed them. Then the balls...must be out of round. Even tried different tees....no luck. Then you have the wind. Pushes the balls left or right. LOL Still enjoy the game !!!

Did you know that putting through your shadow slows the balls down as well.

[golfing eagles]

Did you know that putting through your shadow slows the balls down as well.

well, on Bermuda it does. Did you know that if your ball is resting right on the lip against the grain, if you put your shadow on it (in a timely fashion) it may drop as the grass stands up

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

:1rotfl:

I'm a big Yogi Berra fan. I'm sure Yogi didn't said this but you have a great sense of humor! You should try comedy writing.

Remember, "you have to go to other people's funerals or they won't come to yours". Yogi Berra

Technically, he was 100%correct. What he left out was that the other 1% don't go in either.

I played golf with Roger Clemens back in the 80s and the conversation somehow got turned around to Yogi. Roger told me that he was playing in the Pebble Beach Pro-Am one year and was on the putting green. He didn't have his watch and was concerned about making his starting time. Yogi was on the putting green next to him so he turned and ask Yogi, "Do you know what time it is?" Yogi replied, "Do you mean right now?"

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

well, on Bermuda it does. Did you know that if your ball is resting right on the lip against the grain, if you put your shadow on it (in a timely fashion) it may drop as the grass stands up

I've heard this thousands of times, but I've never witnessed it. It's entirely possible.