Federal government just too big

[rubicon]

When the states first formed federal government it contained only the Departments of Defense, Treasury and Commerce.

What we are not experiencing with federal government today is the concept of "less is more" This monolithic labyrinth we call the federal government is too regimented with red tape and too political to be effective. it needs to be revamped to be effective.

Start with cuts to Fannie and Freddie making them private. The Departments of Energy and Education should be cut. We need to simply our tax code to fit on the size of a post card for most and with it a reduction in the IRS.

Some of you may disagree or have better ways to deal with this issue.

Personal best Regards:

[Don Baldwin]

When the states first formed federal government it contained only the Departments of Defense, Treasury and Commerce.

What we are not experiencing with federal government today is the concept of "less is more" This monolithic labyrinth we call the federal government is too regimented with red tape and too political to be effective. it needs to be revamped to be effective.

Start with cuts to Fannie and Freddie making them private. The Departments of Energy and Education should be cut. We need to simply our tax code to fit on the size of a post card for most and with it a reduction in the IRS.

Some of you may disagree or have better ways to deal with this issue.

Personal best Regards:

How will everyone "skim" from the treasury if you eliminate them?

[Sandtrap328]

The USA has about 330 million people. We need a larger government than in colonial days. Life is much more complicated now.

Look at all the needed aencies. Agriculture to provide support and subsidies to farmers, VA to provide health care, education, compensation, and cemeteries to veterans, Transportation to maintain federal highways as well as safety to airline passengers, and a plethora of other agencies and purposes.

[Don Baldwin]

When the states first formed federal government it contained only the Departments of Defense, Treasury and Commerce.

What we are not experiencing with federal government today is the concept of "less is more" This monolithic labyrinth we call the federal government is too regimented with red tape and too political to be effective. it needs to be revamped to be effective.

Start with cuts to Fannie and Freddie making them private. The Departments of Energy and Education should be cut. We need to simply our tax code to fit on the size of a post card for most and with it a reduction in the IRS.

Some of you may disagree or have better ways to deal with this issue.

Personal best Regards:

Welfare...welfare to the citizens costs the nation a $ trillion a year...80% of it goes to minorities who will never amount to anything anyway...cut it. Where does it say in the Constitution that the government was responsible for your support in its entirety? From cradle to grave? "Provide for the general welfare"? That would make the US a socialist country...I don't think that's what the founders had in mind.

[wjboyer1]

Welfare...welfare to the citizens costs the nation a $ trillion a year...80% of it goes to minorities who will never amount to anything anyway...cut it. Where does it say in the Constitution that the government was responsible for your support in its entirety? From cradle to grave? "Provide for the general welfare"? That would make the US a socialist country...I don't think that's what the founders had in mind.

OK, lets see the facts, because your rant has NO basis in facts.

[Sandtrap328]

Welfare...welfare to the citizens costs the nation a $ trillion a year...80% of it goes to minorities who will never amount to anything anyway...cut it. Where does it say in the Constitution that the government was responsible for your support in its entirety? From cradle to grave? "Provide for the general welfare"? That would make the US a socialist country...I don't think that's what the founders had in mind.

Where in the Constitution does it say anything about providing subsidies to farmers; guaranted home loans to veterans; Medicare to seniors; corporate tax breaks; safety regulations for airlines; or tax deductions for mortgage interest?

Grow up or better yet - shut up.

[Rockyrd]

Where in the Constitution does it say anything about providing subsidies to farmers; guaranted home loans to veterans; Medicare to seniors; corporate tax breaks; safety regulations for airlines; or tax deductions for mortgage interest?

Grow up or better yet - shut up.

I think I understand your post and if so agree totally.

Times have changed as well as the size and population, Each item mentioned is not quite as simple as some make them seem, and each has its own history.

Farm subsidies are very complicated and over the years, the reasoning and amount has changed. We are looking at severe prices for corn, etc without these subsideies and believe it or not, congress keeps an eye on it. A bill was passed under Clinton I think to more tightly control the amount and reason.

IF your point was to say that we are a much different country with much more complex problems today than the inception of the country, then you hit the nail on the head.

So many on the extreme right try to make this as if this were the colonial days, and you cannot govern with that mindset.

If we were to have this discussion, it needs to be broken down into segments and you would be surprised at some of the good sense applied to these problems over the years.

We tend to try and make complicated things simple for us, but that cannot be done. Maybe to make a point on a forum like this, but not close to accurate.

[rubicon]

How will everyone "skim" from the treasury if you eliminate them?

Please re-read my original post. I never said eliminate the Treasury. I said the Departments of Defense, Treasury and commerce were the only departments formed by the states when they formed the federal government.

My point was really to say that Trump or any president for that matter should just drain the swamp s/he needs to reduce it because its so big that Washington people spend ll their time in meetings and never accomplishing anything

Personal Best Regards:

[wjboyer1]

Where in the Constitution does it say anything about providing subsidies to farmers; guaranted home loans to veterans; Medicare to seniors; corporate tax breaks; safety regulations for airlines; or tax deductions for mortgage interest?

Grow up or better yet - shut up.

Where in the constitution does it say that there will be roads, water supplies, waste water treatment, electricity, internal combustion engines, oil, plastics, fertilizers, anti-bacterial drugs, surgery, fire protection.....list goes on and on....just because it is SPECIFICALLY not mentioned in the Constitution, does not mean that it should not be developed and that government has a responsibility to the citizens for its safety.....grow up, or better yet, learn something

[Sandtrap328]

I think I understand your post and if so agree totally.

Times have changed as well as the size and population, Each item mentioned is not quite as simple as some make them seem, and each has its own history.

Farm subsidies are very complicated and over the years, the reasoning and amount has changed. We are looking at severe prices for corn, etc without these subsideies and believe it or not, congress keeps an eye on it. A bill was passed under Clinton I think to more tightly control the amount and reason.

IF your point was to say that we are a much different country with much more complex problems today than the inception of the country, then you hit the nail on the head.

So many on the extreme right try to make this as if this were the colonial days, and you cannot govern with that mindset.

If we were to have this discussion, it needs to be broken down into segments and you would be surprised at some of the good sense applied to these problems over the years.

We tend to try and make complicated things simple for us, but that cannot be done. Maybe to make a point on a forum like this, but not close to accurate.
--------

Yes, there are so many on the extreme right that feel the best way to move is backwards. That is why I call them REGRESSIVES. The opposite of REGRESSIVE is PROGRESSING.

Of course, there have been so many innovations made since the beginning of the country that could not have been placed piecemeal into the Constitution. The "strict constructionist" viewpoint is that if something is not mentioned specifically in the Constitution, it is a power reserved for the individual state. In the words of a great military leader, COL Sherman T. Potter, "Meadow Muffins!"

[Rockyrd]

--------

Yes, there are so many on the extreme right that feel the best way to move is backwards. That is why I call them REGRESSIVES. The opposite of REGRESSIVE is PROGRESSING.

Of course, there have been so many innovations made since the beginning of the country that could not have been placed piecemeal into the Constitution. The "strict constructionist" viewpoint is that if something is not mentioned specifically in the Constitution, it is a power reserved for the individual state. In the words of a great military leader, COL Sherman T. Potter, "Meadow Muffins!"

I cannot agree more, and then when their simple wishes are not met, they blame everyone else for being so short sighted.

Talk, learn and legislate for the ENTIRE COUNTRY. That is just in my head when I heard Trump cancelled trying to eliminate NAFTA when he was shown a electoral map and how many would be out of work in states that supported him. I honestly dont know if that i true but it just reinforces my concern.....he is now President of the entire United States, and his constantly replaying the election is scary. Reach out to the entire country

[Don Baldwin]

OK, lets see the facts, because your rant has NO basis in facts.

I've showed you the facts...over and over. What part do you deny? SHOW me what fact you disagree with and then show me what the correct one is...I'll wait.

Where in the Constitution does it say anything about providing subsidies to farmers; guaranted home loans to veterans; Medicare to seniors; corporate tax breaks; safety regulations for airlines; or tax deductions for mortgage interest?

Grow up or better yet - shut up.

It doesn't and why are we doing it? MOST farms are owned by megacorporations who make a killing "farming". Guaranteed home loans are a bribe to get people to join the military. Medicare is paid for by the beneficiaries...we could replace it with insurance that pays your healthcare AFTER you turn 65...what you pay in during your career determines what you get back after 65. If government didn't bribe so many people, if it didn't take care of 50% of the population with some benefit...taxes wouldn't need to be so high. Trust me...if your planes are falling out of the sky...nobody is going to fly your airline. WHY is there a tax deduction for a home? A SECOND home? We could get rid of 90% of the government and still do just fine...probably better.

Please re-read my original post. I never said eliminate the Treasury. I said the Departments of Defense, Treasury and commerce were the only departments formed by the states when they formed the federal government.

My point was really to say that Trump or any president for that matter should just drain the swamp s/he needs to reduce it because its so big that Washington people spend ll their time in meetings and never accomplishing anything

Personal Best Regards:

I didn't say get rid of the treasury either...reread my reply...I said they USE all those government agencies to skim FROM the treasury...the taxpayers.

Where in the constitution does it say that there will be roads, water supplies, waste water treatment, electricity, internal combustion engines, oil, plastics, fertilizers, anti-bacterial drugs, surgery, fire protection.....list goes on and on....just because it is SPECIFICALLY not mentioned in the Constitution, does not mean that it should not be developed and that government has a responsibility to the citizens for its safety.....grow up, or better yet, learn something

It doesn't. Who says the GOVERNMENT has to do all those things?

Things would get developed WITHOUT the government...why would you think they wouldn't?

WHY is the government responsible for my safety? Why can't I be responsible for my own safety? Because your afraid of the anarchy of corporations gone wild, taking advantage of everyone? Maybe for a little while...but not for long...as word gets out...they go out of business.

--------

Yes, there are so many on the extreme right that feel the best way to move is backwards. That is why I call them REGRESSIVES. The opposite of REGRESSIVE is PROGRESSING.

Of course, there have been so many innovations made since the beginning of the country that could not have been placed piecemeal into the Constitution. The "strict constructionist" viewpoint is that if something is not mentioned specifically in the Constitution, it is a power reserved for the individual state. In the words of a great military leader, COL Sherman T. Potter, "Meadow Muffins!"

I cannot agree more, and then when their simple wishes are not met, they blame everyone else for being so short sighted.

Talk, learn and legislate for the ENTIRE COUNTRY. That is just in my head when I heard Trump cancelled trying to eliminate NAFTA when he was shown a electoral map and how many would be out of work in states that supported him. I honestly dont know if that i true but it just reinforces my concern.....he is now President of the entire United States, and his constantly replaying the election is scary. Reach out to the entire country

Backwards? Who is moving backwards? The "progressives" who are encouraging a minority majority? Who's policies have brought Americs from 90% white and #1 in the world...to 50% white and #25?

You are DESTROYING your own country...allowing it to become Mexico II.

[wjboyer1]

I've showed you the facts...over and over. What part do you deny? SHOW me what fact you disagree with and then show me what the correct one is...I'll wait.



It doesn't and why are we doing it? MOST farms are owned by megacorporations who make a killing "farming". Guaranteed home loans are a bribe to get people to join the military. Medicare is paid for by the beneficiaries...we could replace it with insurance that pays your healthcare AFTER you turn 65...what you pay in during your career determines what you get back after 65. If government didn't bribe so many people, if it didn't take care of 50% of the population with some benefit...taxes wouldn't need to be so high. Trust me...if your planes are falling out of the sky...nobody is going to fly your airline. WHY is there a tax deduction for a home? A SECOND home? We could get rid of 90% of the government and still do just fine...probably better.



I didn't say get rid of the treasury either...reread my reply...I said they USE all those government agencies to skim FROM the treasury...the taxpayers.



It doesn't. Who says the GOVERNMENT has to do all those things?

Things would get developed WITHOUT the government...why would you think they wouldn't?

WHY is the government responsible for my safety? Why can't I be responsible for my own safety? Because your afraid of the anarchy of corporations gone wild, taking advantage of everyone? Maybe for a little while...but not for long...as word gets out...they go out of business.





Backwards? Who is moving backwards? The "progressives" who are encouraging a minority majority? Who's policies have brought Americs from 90% white and #1 in the world...to 50% white and #25?

You are DESTROYING your own country...allowing it to become Mexico II.

you have shown only opinion and unverifiable alternate facts....you have no veracity, you have no ethics, you have no humanity, you are only a racist shell of a non-human wanna-be.

[Don Baldwin]

you have shown only opinion and unverifiable alternate facts....you have no veracity, you have no ethics, you have no humanity, you are only a racist shell of a non-human wanna-be.

I'm right.

I'm trying to SAVE our country.

They're a different SPECIES...they are NOT us...please stop being a wall...listen...use reason.

[RickeyD]

Using the constitution as a literal blueprint for running our country makes about as much sense as using the Bible literally to guide our lives. Both documents served their purposes at their times but the times they have been changing. I view constitutional adherents in the same vane as bible thumping fundamentalists. Outdated and irrelevant in our complicated and non homogeneous world.

[wjboyer1]

I'm right.

I'm trying to SAVE our country.

They're a different SPECIES...they are NOT us...please stop being a wall...listen...use reason.

you are a racist homophobe who has no humanity, nor ethics, nor morals.....you are a different species other than human

[wjboyer1]

I'm right.

I'm trying to SAVE our country.

They're a different SPECIES...they are NOT us...please stop being a wall...listen...use reason.

you are a racist homophobe who has no humanity, nor ethics, nor morals.....YOU are the different species other than human, You are the plague that infects this earth, you are the thing that needs to be sequestered and not allowed to procreate, you are the scourge of everything that America stands for: freedom, respect, and rights. Go back to your KKK meetings, your Alt-right hysteria and burrow yourself back in the hole under the rock in which you emerged.

[RickeyD]

you are a racist homophobe who has no humanity, nor ethics, nor morals.....YOU are the different species other than human, You are the plague that infects this earth, you are the thing that needs to be sequestered and not allowed to procreate, you are the scourge of everything that America stands for: freedom, respect, and rights. Go back to your KKK meetings, your Alt-right hysteria and burrow yourself back in the hole under the rock in which you emerged.



Dude, he's our pet racist. As long as we keep him amused here, he can do no harm. Think of it as strategic containment. Also, he's amusing, so please just sit back and enjoy !

[wjboyer1]

Dude, he's our pet racist. As long as we keep him amused here, he can do no harm. Think of it as strategic containment. Also, he's amusing, so please just sit back and enjoy !

pets like that need to be euthanized

[RickeyD]

pets like that need to be euthanized



Personally I don't believe in the death penalty, I leave that up to the fundamentalists.

[wjboyer1]

Personally I don't believe in the death penalty, I leave that up to the fundamentalists.

I am speaking of the veterinarian sciences.....for that thing

[rubicon]

Using the constitution as a literal blueprint for running our country makes about as much sense as using the Bible literally to guide our lives. Both documents served their purposes at their times but the times they have been changing. I view constitutional adherents in the same vane as bible thumping fundamentalists. Outdated and irrelevant in our complicated and non homogeneous world.

Using your comparison I would then say human beings have gotten themselves in deep trouble over the centuries because they ignored the lessons in the Bible. While one can argue as to the source of the Ten Commandments and the Bible they are excellent guides . I do not believe that ethics or morality and basic human principle change with the times. The Ten Commandments are as relevant today as they were when Moses walked down the mountain with them.

I believe Justice Antonin Scalia's position as to the US Constitution was spot on.

Succinctly stated, people fail when they forget or ignore the basics.

This nation's internal problems can be traced to the fact that the politicians or Judges ignored the wording of the Constitution to ave it fit their political agenda.

Before an electricians begins his work instruction dictate turn off the electricity and a plumber to turn off the water. ignore those instruction at your own peril.

Government is too big because politicians and judges politically ignored the wording of our Articles of Freedom. Such as while all men are created equal didn't mean politicians must provide equal outcomes, etc.

Personal Best Regards:

[Don Baldwin]

you are a racist homophobe who has no humanity, nor ethics, nor morals.....YOU are the different species other than human, You are the plague that infects this earth, you are the thing that needs to be sequestered and not allowed to procreate, you are the scourge of everything that America stands for: freedom, respect, and rights. Go back to your KKK meetings, your Alt-right hysteria and burrow yourself back in the hole under the rock in which you emerged.

Dude, he's our pet racist. As long as we keep him amused here, he can do no harm. Think of it as strategic containment. Also, he's amusing, so please just sit back and enjoy !

pets like that need to be euthanized

I am speaking of the veterinarian sciences.....for that thing

That's how you talk to/about people who are trying to SAVE your country, culture, and grandchildren???

Why do I bother...

Because I CARE about America...I want it left BETTER...not changed into Mexico II.

boyer and Ricky...the village idiots.

[Taltarzac725]

That's how you talk to/about people who are trying to SAVE your country, culture, and grandchildren???

Why do I bother...

Because I CARE about America...I want it left BETTER...not changed into Mexico II.

boyer and Ricky...the village idiots.

An African-American woman gave me the nicest of smiles on Friday.

[dirtbanker]

An African-American woman gave me the nicest of smiles on Friday.

If race did not matter to this person, he would not be taking account of the race of the person that smiled at him...

[Don Baldwin]

An African-American woman gave me the nicest of smiles on Friday.

Retards smile a lot too...your dog "smiles"...so?

Did she impress you with her superior skills and abilities? Her eloquent use of language? Her superior intellect?

Do they ever?

Obama was known as the TELEPROMPTER in Chief because he sounded like a babbling idiot without something to read.

America IS lost within 30 years...because we allowed Hispanics to breed us out.

[MDLNB]

Using the constitution as a literal blueprint for running our country makes about as much sense as using the Bible literally to guide our lives. Both documents served their purposes at their times but the times they have been changing. I view constitutional adherents in the same vane as bible thumping fundamentalists. Outdated and irrelevant in our complicated and non homogeneous world.

The Constitution is the law. If you don't like it, move. Otherwise, live with it and quit talking out your @ss. To compare the Constitution with the Bible is ludicrous. No one is mandated by law to live according to the Bible. You are required to live according to the laws of the Constitution. So....Live with it or get out of MY country. Or, go to jail if you wish.

[Don Baldwin]

The Constitution is the law. If you don't like it, move. Otherwise, live with it and quite talking out your @ss. To compare the Constitution with the Bible is ludicrous. No one is mandated by law to live according to the Bible. You are required to live according to the laws of the Constitution. So....Live with it or get out of MY country. Or, go to jail if you wish.

Who is? Certainly not the government.

Those things not specifically enumerated to the Federal government by the Constitution is SUPPOSED to be given to the state or the people themselves to decide.

They certainly do not follow it.

They took the general welfare clause and ran with it.

[rubicon]

the topic is "federal government just too big. Posters have gone off topic . its called FREE SPEECH AND ISN'T IT WONDERFUL count your blessings all we live in a great nation despite is faults.

Personal Best Regards:

[autumnspring]

When the states first formed federal government it contained only the Departments of Defense, Treasury and Commerce.

What we are not experiencing with federal government today is the concept of "less is more" This monolithic labyrinth we call the federal government is too regimented with red tape and too political to be effective. it needs to be revamped to be effective.

Start with cuts to Fannie and Freddie making them private. The Departments of Energy and Education should be cut. We need to simply our tax code to fit on the size of a post card for most and with it a reduction in the IRS.

Some of you may disagree or have better ways to deal with this issue.

Personal best Regards:

RE: Federal government and what they should do
This issue has been debated for centuries.
I think, I think if we think we will all realize that this is the UNITED STATES of America. Any individual state would be far weaker and less efficient without the others.
Without the federal government, we would have a mess that if we think, we would see is unacceptable.
If, in state #1 you can drive at 14 could that 14 year old drive in state #2 where the law is you need to be 18. If, you can drink at 17 in one state and 21 in another can you pick up liquor in the state with a 17 drinking age. THE ISSUE HAS NOT BEEN SETTLED RE: GUN CONTROL-no, I am not anti gun.

Stop for a minute and realize that for you and for the rest of us, we think all legislation that is good for us is GOOD but, if it is good for someone else and costs us IT IS A MISUSE OF GOVERNMENT POWER.

You mention Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. They are particularly funny. When, they were making money there was no question about them. Now that they are in a deep hole neither you nor I want to be stuck with the BILL.

I AM NOT NOR HAVE I EVER BEEN AN OBAMA SUPPORTER.
I have no question that Obama vastly exceeded the power defined for the federal government in the constitution.

It is however interesting that Abraham Lincoln also vastly exceeded the power of the presidency and the power of the federal government. The same is true of FDR. In fact unlike Obama and unlike Lincoln, approximately 20 bills written by FDR were found to be unconstitutional by the supreme court

THE GOOD NEWS IS THAT CRAZY AS OUR SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT IS WE HAVE NEVER HAD THE RISE OF A DICTATOR SUCH AS HITLER, MUSSOLINI OR HIROHITO.
IN MY VIEW, LINCOLN, FDR AND OBAMA WERE PRETTY DARN CLOSE AND OUR SYSTEM SURVIVED TWO OF THEM AND I HOPE IT WILL SURVIVE THE THIRD.

CUT, FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WE ALL WANT TO CUT WHAT DOES NOT BENEFIT US BUT YOU WILL FIND PEOPLE WHO DO BENEFIT WILL STRONGLY DISAGREE WITH YOU.

Aside: When, first created-you state the department of the treasury. AMUSING PROBLEM-THEY HAD NO MONEY AND NO METHOD TO RAISE ANY MONEY. Immediate expansion of the federal government-was the result of this oversight-error or???????