No more play in The Villages

[delpi767]

My group has decided we will no longer play in the Villages until course conditions improve or the powers that be understand that raising prices for an inferior product is unacceptable.

While no one can solve the drought problem, one can realize that the courses have provided an experience inferior to what we have come to expect and price the experience accordingly.

Yet rather than lowering greens fees, they have increased them. That's a slap in the face to those of us who have supported Villages golf for many years.

So guys, until you realize that you can't increase costs for a declining product, we'll motor elsewhere. It's not like there is a shortage of courses in the surrounding area.

[fred53]

Well lets see some folks want prices lowered and water increased....it hasn't rained enough to allow them to water enough so in order to do so they have to buy water...that costs more money and prices go up accordingly. Some people may want to have their cake and eat it to, but it's not going to happen. Fortunately the adults are in charge and common sense will rule over whining.

There is no slap in the face...this is not personally directed towards the poster, but to those with unreasonable demands who fail to think things through.

[karostay]

My info may be wrong
I've been told greens keepers are just landscapers
I don't know why they bother to plug fairways and never over dress them.
My other pet peeve is executive golf made the Villages what it is today..Free golf sold all these homes
Executive greens should be every bit as good as the championship greens

[rustyp]

As of today rates have decreased by 38% before 11 AM and 56% after 11 AM

[JoMar]

My group has decided we will no longer play in the Villages until course conditions improve or the powers that be understand that raising prices for an inferior product is unacceptable.

While no one can solve the drought problem, one can realize that the courses have provided an experience inferior to what we have come to expect and price the experience accordingly.

Yet rather than lowering greens fees, they have increased them. That's a slap in the face to those of us who have supported Villages golf for many years.

So guys, until you realize that you can't increase costs for a declining product, we'll motor elsewhere. It's not like there is a shortage of courses in the surrounding area.

Good idea.....since you are an expert I believe we should follow you.....I'm always pleased that we have so many people here that have the knowledge to give direction to greenskeepers/maintenance personnel. Thanks for your help.

[DonH57]

We'll miss you.

[Carl in Tampa]

We'll miss you.

We will try to bear up.

[golfing eagles]

We'll miss you.

doubt it

[Rapscallion St Croix]

My group has decided we will no longer play in the Villages until course conditions improve or the powers that be understand that raising prices for an inferior product is unacceptable.

While no one can solve the drought problem, one can realize that the courses have provided an experience inferior to what we have come to expect and price the experience accordingly.

Yet rather than lowering greens fees, they have increased them. That's a slap in the face to those of us who have supported Villages golf for many years.

So guys, until you realize that you can't increase costs for a declining product, we'll motor elsewhere. It's not like there is a shortage of courses in the surrounding area.

In the spirit of helpfulness, I think I can save you a lot of money. If you ever think of plunking down some big bucks and flying to Scotland to play some of the famed courses...........don't do it.

[billds567]

I agree with anyone who wishes to take their business elsewhere. You don't have to be an agronomist to know that cutting the rough down to nothing before it goes dormant is going to create poor conditions. When you compare our courses to similar outside courses, we pay about the same or more, AND use our own carts.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

What's the deal with the late afternoon rates. Isn't there some really low fee for all you can play after 4:00?

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

My group has decided we will no longer play in the Villages until course conditions improve or the powers that be understand that raising prices for an inferior product is unacceptable.

While no one can solve the drought problem, one can realize that the courses have provided an experience inferior to what we have come to expect and price the experience accordingly.

Yet rather than lowering greens fees, they have increased them. That's a slap in the face to those of us who have supported Villages golf for many years.

So guys, until you realize that you can't increase costs for a declining product, we'll motor elsewhere. It's not like there is a shortage of courses in the surrounding area.

When you say "your group" are you talking about a foursome or a large number of players.

The only way that rates will come down will be if the number of players drops off. And if that happens you can expect course conditions to worsen and income will decrease. As long as people keep coming to play the rates will stay where they are or go up. Like anything else, it's all about supply and demand.

[Laschott]

:a040::bigbow: I agree the golf courses this year are not what we expect from The Villages. But we have to take in consideration the lack of water. The greens this year have held up nicely it's the fairways and the tees that are lacking. If you go north of 466 they seem to have held up better than the golf courses south of 466. They had more rain on the north side of the villages than the South Side. So try playing Orange blossom, Hacienda Hills , Tierra Del Sol and Nancy Lopez

[graciegirl]

Mankind is a strange breed. I know of some golfers who have a strange half smile when they hear an ambulance.

[billethkid]

I thought I had seen some unacceptable condition executive courses this year. However last Saturday we played Heron. The shame of shames.

T boxes little more than than dirt/sand patches. When I say no grass there was none.

Think of the worst greens you have seen in TV....Heron's wins hands down.

I do not buy into the draught offering as many other courses with responsible maintenance show stress, not neglect.

I have also heard the tale that because Pelican and Heron get so much more wild life it creates a problem.

These two courses show what insufficient maintenance begets. And it also demonstrates the level of neglect the majority of players are content to put up with.

I have said my piece to the management. I have also scratched those two courses from any play list.

[Carla B]

Not exactly on topic, but live next to a tee where men golfers tee off. The grass is often dead from the golfers leaving their carts and walking to the tee. When the maintenance crew attempts to remedy the situation and plants sod in that dirt and sand patch, they erect a barrier of low chain hung from posts.

To my amazement, rather than walking around the chain, nine out of ten golfers ignore the barrier, step over it and trample the new sod.

[bilcon]

Great! Another tee time just opened up. I wish I was so good at golf that some imperfections would bother me so much that my game would go down the toilet. I have played a few outside courses, but most of them are no better for the price. Tough when you have no water, and a million golfers a day. OK, only several hundred playing each day.

[golf2140]

Well lets see some folks want prices lowered and water increased....it hasn't rained enough to allow them to water enough so in order to do so they have to buy water...that costs more money and prices go up accordingly. Some people may want to have their cake and eat it to, but it's not going to happen. Fortunately the adults are in charge and common sense will rule over whining.

There is no slap in the face...this is not personally directed towards the poster, but to those with unreasonable demands who fail to think things through.

:bigbow::bigbow:

[drcar]

we'll miss you.

nope

[golfing eagles]

nope

well put, Dave

[ColdNoMore]

C'mon y'all, why such enmity simply because someone expresses their opinion? :oops:

Disagreeing with an opinion is certainly one thing (of which I've actually been known to do myself, once in a great while :D), but some of these responses...go way beyond what seems necessary. :shrug:

Or have we forgotten our 'supposed' motto? :ohdear:


"The Villages - Florida's Friendliest Hometown"

[drcar]

Great! Another tee time just opened up. I wish I was so good at golf that some imperfections would bother me so much that my game would go down the toilet. I have played a few outside courses, but most of them are no better for the price. Tough when you have no water, and a million golfers a day. OK, only several hundred playing each day.

Well said!!!!!!!!!!!!

[drcar]

Again, this post comes up all the time. The courses are open for play, either play or go elsewhere. Nothing said here is going to make it rain or make it better. Played today, Belle Glade, course was in good condition. I challenge any course that gets the same amount of play, and so little rain to have better conditions. No rain, limited watering, huge amounts of play equal dry conditions and little grass.

[golfing eagles]

Again, this post comes up all the time. The courses are open for play, either play or go elsewhere. Nothing said here is going to make it rain or make it better. Played today, Belle Glade, course was in good condition. I challenge any course that gets the same amount of play, and so little rain to have better conditions. No rain, limited watering, huge amounts of play equal dry conditions and little grass.

Good to hear, playing there tomorrow.

[JGVillages]

Grass does not root adequately when there is not a satisfactory base of top soil when the course is constructed. The Villages Courses have a very minimal soil base under the "grass". This is readily visible with every divot taken you see a disintegrating mixture of mostly sand with minimal soil and grass, not a semi-solid or solid divot. Without proper rooting the grass has extreme difficulty retaining water, creating worse course conditions when rain is minimal as it is now. The older Villages Courses on the north side have had years of aerification allowing the base underneath to mature and the ability of the grass to root deeper. Initial course construction can make a big difference in conditions when minimal rain occurs.

[ColdNoMore]

Grass does not root adequately when there is not a satisfactory base of top soil when the course is constructed. The Villages Courses have a very minimal soil base under the "grass". This is readily visible with every divot taken you see a disintegrating mixture of mostly sand with minimal soil and grass, not a semi-solid or solid divot. Without proper rooting the grass has extreme difficulty retaining water, creating worse course conditions when rain is minimal as it is now. The older Villages Courses on the north side have had years of aerification allowing the base underneath to mature and the ability of the grass to root deeper. Initial course construction can make a big difference in conditions when minimal rain occurs.

When I'm playing poorly, my divots are large enough from laying the sod over...that I'm certainly doing my part on aerating the fairways. :(



:D

[drcar]

:bigbow::clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2:When I'm playing poorly, my divots are large enough from laying the sod over...that I'm certainly doing my part on aerating the fairways. :(



:D

[golfing eagles]

Played Belle Glade this AM, nothing wrong with the condition.

[Bogie Shooter]

Played Belle Glade this AM, nothing wrong with the condition.

A second opinion.:laugh:

[coach]

I played Bonifay today. Course was really pretty good. Grass in fairways and most greens were very nice.

[drcar]

It's funny what a little rain does, it is also the time the courses are aerating so people judge based on those conditions

[kcrazorbackfan]

It's funny what a little rain does, it is also the time the courses are aerating so people judge based on those conditions

So true. I'm starting to realize it's that "privileged/entitled" group that does the most complaining. Waa, waa, waa - call the waambulance. I'm looking at Southern Star as I write this and it's the greenest I've seen it for awhile; it is funny what a little rain will do. I wonder when the OP and his band of groupies will silently return to taking tee times from us loyalists?

Played Belle Glade today and it was in great shape.

[Mikeod]

It appears they are trying a new technique on some courses to transition from overseed to base. It is similar to what I experienced on our courses in SoCal. They basically starve the overseed, leaving an almost bare surface. When the overseed is dead, they hit the turf with water and fertilizer to spur growth of the bermuda. Usually, the transition is harsher, but shorter since there is no shading of the bermuda by the overseed.

[collie1228]

We played Mallory yesterday (Amelia to Caroline) and the course was in good condition. In fact the greens were faster than I could adjust to, but they rolled very well. Fairways were green, but both rough and fairways are very tight. Obviously we need a lot of rain to get the grass growing in the rough.

[Aw Man]

I've learned to pay attention to the published schedules for week long maintenance and aeration and then take those courses off my play list for 3 to 4 weeks after. My satisfaction with course conditions has since improved.

[drcar]

:coolsmiley::coolsmiley::coolsmiley::agree::agree: I've learned to pay attention to the published schedules for week long maintenance and aeration and then take those courses off my play list for 3 to 4 weeks after. My satisfaction with course conditions has since improved.

[rubicon]

"No more play in The Villages" Newbies you got to love them:D

[coach]

Belle Glade was very nice today. I was very happy with the condition.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I thought I had seen some unacceptable condition executive courses this year. However last Saturday we played Heron. The shame of shames.

T boxes little more than than dirt/sand patches. When I say no grass there was none.

Think of the worst greens you have seen in TV....Heron's wins hands down.

I do not buy into the draught offering as many other courses with responsible maintenance show stress, not neglect.

I have also heard the tale that because Pelican and Heron get so much more wild life it creates a problem.

These two courses show what insufficient maintenance begets. And it also demonstrates the level of neglect the majority of players are content to put up with.

I have said my piece to the management. I have also scratched those two courses from any play list.

I played Heron today and it's no worse than several other courses in TV.

The middle tee on #4 has been totally lost and is completely grass free, but that's the only one that I noticed.

What I did notice was an abundance of unrepaired ball marks. I always see them but there were many more at Heron than most other courses I play.

I will say that Heron is a very pretty course with water and wild palmetto areas. It's too bad the condition, like all of the execs that I've played is deplorable.

What really surprises me is that The Villages does everything else here in a first class manor. The rec centers, pools, cart paths, landscaping, softball fields, tennis courts and every thing else is so well maintained. You would think that a business such as this that sells itself on "free" golf for life. (yes, I know it's not actually free)would be a bit more concerned about the condition of the golf courses. I can't imagine that they help sales when prospective buyers come down for a lifestyle visit and play these goat ranches.

By the way, I played OBH Tuesday and it's in pretty bad shape as well, so I'm thinking that they don't maintain the championship courses very well either.

[Buffalo Jim]

Sometimes we see completely but consistently different personalities in use North of the Political Talk section vs the Political section .

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Sometimes we see completely but consistently different personalities in use North of the Political Talk section vs the Political section .

Well, this past week I played Silver Lake, Oakleigh, Amberwood, Chula Vista, Mira Mesa, OBH and Heron and I can tell you that, with the exception of OBH, they all are equally bad. Strangely, Silver Lake and Hilltop have the best greens.

OBH is in bad condition, the rest are deplorable. Hitting a fairway on a par four is no advantage whatsoever. Miss a green by a few feet and you are usually in a horrible position. On most course, the tees are pretty bad, but they are a low priority area to me since we are teeing up the ball.

[Daylight]

I agree with you. The courses within a 30 mile radius didn't get rain either and they are PERFECT. Why are they so different???

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

What bothers me as much as the poor condition is the design of some of these holes.
I played Mira Mesa a few days ago and vowed I will not play it again. Besides the fact that the fairways on the two par fours are in deplorable condition, there are two holes, #2 and #6 where I could not aim my ball at the green. From the back tees, these two holes are literally, dogleg to the left par threes. In order to hit the green, you must hit a ten to fifteen-yard draw. This is absurd. I might be a bit prejudiced because I have been working hard on hitting a baby fade. But, there is simply no excuse for a par three where the ball cannot be aimed at the flagstick.

The ninth hole at Mira Mesa is a 180-yard par three but the green is designed for a short iron. Besides the fact that the green is only 17 yards front to back, the back 30% of it slopes away. I have hit many very good high spinning four hybrids to that hole only to be chipping from the back rough. I get the impression that this back tee was added sometime after the course was completed as it makes no sense to have a shot of that length to such a small green. I also notice that the back tee yardage on the scorecard is from the middle tee.

I have heard that this green was completely torn up and redone a few years ago. I can't imagine what the people who did the re-design were thinking.

I will not play Mira Mesa again. That's a real shame because except for these few problems it's a really nice track. As much as I hate the idea, one can always take a preferred lie on the bad fairways, But the two holes where the ball can be aimed at the green are a deal breaker for me. I play golf to enjoy myself. I get enough aggravation with some of the people that I play with who talk while I'm playing, walk on my line, don't fix ball mark or fill divots. I really don't need to be aggravated by holes that are all but impossible to play.

The eighth hole at Silver Lake and the ninth at Hilltop have the same problem. Sometimes, the tee markers on these two are moved far enough to the right to allow the hole to be playable, but there are some days where the holes have to be played for a chip and a putt.


I also noticed this on the sixth hole at Oakleigh. This time it's a par four and there are some palm trees planted directly in front of the middle tee. The ball has to be aimed at the big fairway bunker. If you can not turn it over, you have no play other than to hit it in the bunker.

The fairway of the second hole at Silver Lake needs to be totally dug up and re-done. It will never come back with the patchwork repairs that they are doing. The same for the third at Mira Mesa. The sixth at Mira Mesa may be able to come back with some care but the other's need to be totally redone.

I was playing Silver Lake last week and noticed that they are taking out some sod that it along the woods next to the fourth tee. I had to wonder what is in the minds of the people that are in charge that this is a priority to them while so many other things on these courses need attention.

I also noticed that it appears that they might be cutting the large tee on number six into two smaller tees. This makes no sense from two perspectives. Number one, it takes away area where the tee markers may be moved in order to disperse the wear and tear. Also, mowing two smaller tees will take more time than mowing one large one as more turns will be required and the mowers will have to be raised and then lowered again.

[buzzy]

Dr. Boogie,

I can see your frustration, being an experienced golfer before even getting here. Now, for someone taking up the sport in retirement it's a disaster. I can't play consistently because the exec courses are wildly different. For example, if you played south of 466A, you would encounter wavy & hilly greens, greens that are above or below eyesight, and hazards that are completely out of eyesight.

[JoMar]

If all the execs were the same this would be a very boring set of courses. And since their difficulty is defined so we know what level we are playing not sure what the issue is.

[golfing eagles]

Dr. Boogie,

I can see your frustration, being an experienced golfer before even getting here. Now, for someone taking up the sport in retirement it's a disaster. I can't play consistently because the exec courses are wildly different. For example, if you played south of 466A, you would encounter wavy & hilly greens, greens that are above or below eyesight, and hazards that are completely out of eyesight.

So????? That's what makes golf interesting and challenging. But if you don't like hills and blinds shots, here's a list of courses I've played that you will want to avoid at all costs:

Bethpage Black
Bethpage Red
Bethpage Blue
Winged Foot
Baltusrol
Pine Valley
Pinehurst #2 and #5
US Air Force Academy (Blue and Silver)
and many others

But, if you want flat, try:

Eisenhower Park, Long Island (any of the 3 courses)
Just about any course in Myrtle Beach
Just about any course in South Florida
Antler Creek, Colorado Springs

[dbussone]

So????? That's what makes golf interesting and challenging. But if you don't like hills and blinds shots, here's a list of courses I've played that you will want to avoid at all costs:



Bethpage Black

Bethpage Red

Bethpage Blue

Winged Foot

Baltusrol

Pine Valley

Pinehurst #2 and #5

US Air Force Academy (Blue and Silver)

and many others



But, if you want flat, try:



Eisenhower Park, Long Island (any of the 3 courses)

Just about any course in Myrtle Beach

Just about any course in South Florida

Antler Creek, Colorado Springs



Doggone. I feel a lobster bet approaching! (I haven't played any of these.) But I have played a few hilly, narrow fairway courses in New England. Do those count? (I didn't think so.) [emoji41]


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[Nucky]

I know you're going to find it hard to believe but I played twice at Baltusrol. It was slightly different than the local public courses. Boy those were the day's. At least I have my memories. The rough was brutal and the greens.....Forgetabouit. I finished but there were a few snowmen on the card. Good Times.

[dbussone]

I know you're going to find it hard to believe but I played twice at Baltusrol. It was slightly different than the local public courses. Boy those were the day's. At least I have my memories. The rough was brutal and the greens.....Forgetabouit. I finished but there were a few snowmen on the card. Good Times.



I just knew you and GE were pros. What was your real name on The Tour?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[chuckinca]

I agree with you. The courses within a 30 mile radius didn't get rain either and they are PERFECT. Why are they so different???


Please name some of these perfect courses (not in Howey in the Hills).

.

[DonH57]

Are all golf courses in central Florida villages or not under the same water restrictions since so many private use wells exists? On the subject of how easy a golf course should be I only took up golf when I came here was because I wanted to be challenged by a new endeavor. I have met my match for which I'm grateful!

[Dynsol]

Two words.........thank you.........

[784caroline]

Played Bonifay today...decent shape except the sand traps had water in them...and i hit them all.

[mdticket]

Bad information!

[golfing eagles]

Bad information!

As "informative" as that was, some of the rest of us might be interested in just what information you think was bad

[ColdNoMore]

Bad information!

Please elaborate.

What exactly do you believe is... "bad information?" :confused:

[ColdNoMore]

As "informative" as that was, some of the rest of us might be interested in just what information you think was bad

Please elaborate.

What exactly do you believe is... "bad information?" :confused:

Ahhhh cripes...not again. :oops:

[golfing eagles]

Ahhhh cripes...not again. :oops:

Truly frightening:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl: