Gyroplane Flying Club

[Steve9930]

Anyone interested in starting a Gyroplane Flying Club send me a message. Its a fun aircraft to fly and with a number of people who are willing to invest we can spread the cost. I'm in the very preliminary stage of this and just trying to see if there is enough interest. Pilot licensing is done under the Sport Pilot rules. No FAA medical required, just a valid drivers license. If you have a sport pilot license or higher you just need to get training from 2 Gyroplane CFIs for your gyroplane add on. Those without a Pilot License will need to acquire a Sport Pilot License. Looking at AutoGyro MTO Sport or Calidus, or AR-1 from Silverlight aviation.

Here is an AR-1 Gyroplane: Flying the AR1 Gyroplane - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkzwyyiK8ws)

[BobnBev]

Doesn't look very safe, to me. Do you wear a parachute? What kind of engine? 2-way radio equipped?

[Carl in Tampa]

Doesn't look very safe, to me. Do you wear a parachute? What kind of engine? 2-way radio equipped?

I regard gyrocopters as the motorcycles of the air. When I was in my 20s I would have flown in one. I would have bought and flown a Weedhopper 40 Ultralite (see photo) if I could have afforded it. Presently, my injuries preclude me from even mounting a gyrocopter, but I wouldn't do it even if I were able, just as I wouldn't ride a motorcycle.

I'm sure that flying a gyrocopter is exhilarating. I have flown small helicopters that weren't much larger, and always removed the doors.

I wouldn't discourage anyone who would like to fly one, but it wouldn't be for me even if I were physically fit. I would suggest that anyone who wants to give it a try should be sure to get a model that is "FAA type certified," just as I would want for fixed wing aircraft that I would fly.

There is also a significant qualifier regarding only needing a valid driver's license in lieu of a flight medical exam for a Sport Pilot's License. You must not know or have reason to know of any medical condition that would make you unable to operate a light-sport aircraft in a safe manner.

[Steve9930]

Doesn't look very safe, to me. Do you wear a parachute? What kind of engine? 2-way radio equipped?

Actually its safer then an airplane. While the Gyroplane needs about 800 feet to take off, it needs about 30 feet to land. A small aircraft needs as much space to land as it does to take off. The Gyroplane does have a radio and can be equipped with a transponder and any of the normal aircraft instrumentation. Its sometimes called the motorcycle of the sky. I've been flying since 1984 and just recently got into Gyroplanes. I've really enjoyed it so far. It also very simple to fly as compared to other aircraft. Safety is in the pilot as much as the aircraft. No matter what you fly you need to understand its limitations and proper handling.

[Steve9930]

I regard gyrocopters as the motorcycles of the air. When I was in my 20s I would have flown in one. I would have bought and flown a Weedhopper 40 Ultralite (see photo) if I could have afforded it. Presently, my injuries preclude me from even mounting a gyrocopter, but I wouldn't do it even if I were able, just as I wouldn't ride a motorcycle.

I'm sure that flying a gyrocopter is exhilarating. I have flown small helicopters that weren't much larger, and always removed the doors.

I wouldn't discourage anyone who would like to fly one, but it wouldn't be for me even if I were physically fit. I would suggest that anyone who wants to give it a try should be sure to get a model that is "FAA type certified," just as I would want for fixed wing aircraft that I would fly.

There is also a significant qualifier regarding only needing a valid driver's license in lieu of a flight medical exam for a Sport Pilot's License. You must not know or have reason to know of any medical condition that would make you unable to operate a light-sport aircraft in a safe manner.

Correct on the drivers license and good health. Any pilot needs to take stock in their health before flying anything. There is only one Gyroplane currently FAA certified in the USA and it is the AutoGyro Calidus. Its certified under the Primary Catagory. All of the others are in the Experimental Catagory. Gyroplanes are big in Europe. The Light Sport Aircraft certification is done to ASME Standards in the USA. This reduces much of the cost. I've flown a large number of aircraft and this one is more fun then any of the others.

[John_W]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-b9fDrOv2zY8/VT-TpbX5R5I/AAAAAAAADbc/eJVPiWl12nY/s1600/ZURGU_acc_141123.jpg

http://klax-tv.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/gyrocopter2.jpg

After looking at several gyrocopter crash videos on youtube, it seems if the pilot is not constantly on top of the controls there is a good chance of stalling or going into a spin. They appear to fly like a helicopter will little chance to being able to trim the aircraft. The bad part about crashes is you have two propellers in close proximity to the pilot and if the impact doesn't kill you, the blades will. I think a glider is safer than a gyrocopter, that's just my opinion.

[Steve9930]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-b9fDrOv2zY8/VT-TpbX5R5I/AAAAAAAADbc/eJVPiWl12nY/s1600/ZURGU_acc_141123.jpg

http://klax-tv.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/gyrocopter2.jpg

After looking at several gyrocopter crash videos on youtube, it seems if the pilot is not constantly on top of the controls there is a good chance of stalling or going into a spin. They appear to fly like a helicopter will little chance to being able to trim the aircraft. The bad part about crashes is you have two propellers in close proximity to the pilot and if the impact doesn't kill you, the blades will. I think a glider is safer than a gyrocopter, that's just my opinion.

If a pilot is not using the correct controls all aircraft will crash. Gyroplanes do not stall. They suffer from what is called "Unloading the Rotor". Both of those crash pictures is what happens when you unload a rotor system. Helicopters are the most difficult aircraft to fly. I've flow those also. Gyroplanes are very dossil and do not take a lot of constant pilot input. They can be trimmed out just like a fixed wing aircraft. Gliders rely on thermals to keep them aloft. The newer model gliders do have an engine that can be deployed. Gliders still require lots of room to land safely. Rotorcraft can land on a tennis court.

[Carl in Tampa]

Doesn't look very safe, to me. Do you wear a parachute? What kind of engine? 2-way radio equipped?

Different manufacturers use different engines. One example is the Rotax 914 (see link for specifications.) It is probably very reliable. My early experience in helicopters (Army H-13 Sioux, Hiller Raven, and Hughes Osage) was in reciprocating engine helicopters. After years in turbine engine helicopters, I would probably be a bit uncomfortable in recip engine helicopters, which is strange because I am not uncomfortable in fixed wing aircraft with recip engines. Go figure.

You do not wear parachutes. If something goes wrong the odds of getting out of a gyroplane before a crash would be very small. Also, a lot of the fun of a gyroplane is flying low over the landscape, making parachutes ineffective.

Two way radios can be added to almost any aircraft, but are not required by the FAA except in some areas of "controlled airspace."

A question that should be asked is about the cost. I'm guessing $50,000 or more. The cost to each member of the club would depend upon the number of members. More members equal less cost. But, more members means less availability of the aircraft, especially in Florida's rainy season. Remember that the engine requires a costly overhaul after a certain number of hours of use.

Where would the aircraft be housed? What security would be provided? From what field would you fly? What would insurance cost with multiple pilots of varying degrees of piloting skill and experience?

Even with all these issues, it looks like flying one of these things would be a lot of fun.

Rotax 914 UL/F - Rotax Aircaft Engines (http://www.flyrotax.com/produkte/detail/rotax-914-ul-f.html)

[Carl in Tampa]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-b9fDrOv2zY8/VT-TpbX5R5I/AAAAAAAADbc/eJVPiWl12nY/s1600/ZURGU_acc_141123.jpg

http://klax-tv.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/gyrocopter2.jpg

After looking at several gyrocopter crash videos on youtube, it seems if the pilot is not constantly on top of the controls there is a good chance of stalling or going into a spin. They appear to fly like a helicopter will little chance to being able to trim the aircraft. The bad part about crashes is you have two propellers in close proximity to the pilot and if the impact doesn't kill you, the blades will. I think a glider is safer than a gyrocopter, that's just my opinion.

The fact is that gyrocopters do not fly like a helicopter (or like a fixed wing aircraft.) That's why a licensed pilot should not just jump into a gyrocopter and fly away. For example, in a helicopter (where the lift is provided by the rotating wing) you can increase speed by tilting the aircraft farther forward. If you do this in a gyrocopter you will get to the point that the wind load on the top side of the unpowered rotating wing will produce a negative effect; the wing can slow down and you can lose lift and crash.

Anyone wanting to fly gyrocopters should receive training from a person certified to give gyrocopter flight training.

[John_W]

What would be small and fun to me, would be the Bede 5 Jet. My first job with the FAA I working at St. Pete/Clearwater Tower (PIE) about 1974 and we had an airshow with the Blue Angels scheduled. The day before the show, I was working local when a Bede called for landing 5 miles south. We didn't have brite radar in the tower at that time, you only had your eyes. I told to report 2 mile final, when he reported I didn't see anything. He asked if he could make an overhead approach, it was runway 35 which is almost 10,000' so I told him to make right traffic report initial over the threshold. He reported and I still didn't see him, so he hit the smoke and it was like magic, a stream of colored smoke appeared and I told him to report break. He came around so quick it was like a blur, it was the fastest I've ever seen aircraft turn 180 and land. I was always surprised the Bede Jets never developed into a bigger fad, I guess being single seat and the price probably hurt sales.

https://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large/bede-5-bd5-b-kit-airplane-using-honda-and-mazda-engines-7d11166-wingsdomain-art-and-photography.jpg

[John_W]

Speaking of daredevils, about 4 years ago I was lounging at Tamarind Grove pool, so naturally I was looking up. Suddenly I saw a hang glider approaching from the south, then one by one another and another. Eventually I counted 31 hang gliders, I told everyone at the pool and they were drawing a big crowd. It was the most amazing sight, some of them circled around to allow others to catch up, which is why we could see so many all at once. They must of been up at about 1000' and once in a while you would see one dip down as if he were going to land only to ride back up to a decent height. How they could launch that many I wouldn't know, if they were using an aircraft that would take a lot of time.

I read in the Sun the next day they were flying cross country from somewhere around Lakeland to Ocala, but 2 or 3 who lived in TV landed in the TV. From my vantage point I counted 31, there could of been many more that I didn't see. I guess they were following 301 and then switched over to Buena Vista somewhere near where I was located just off 466A. It was quite a sight.

http://979litefm.com/files/2016/08/Hang-Gliding-Getty-Images-241280.jpg?w=630&h=426&zc=1&s=0&a=t&q=89

[Steve9930]

Different manufacturers use different engines. One example is the Rotax 914 (see link for specifications.) It is probably very reliable. My early experience in helicopters (Army H-13 Sioux, Hiller Raven, and Hughes Osage) was in reciprocating engine helicopters. After years in turbine engine helicopters, I would probably be a bit uncomfortable in recip engine helicopters, which is strange because I am not uncomfortable in fixed wing aircraft with recip engines. Go figure.

You do not wear parachutes. If something goes wrong the odds of getting out of a gyroplane before a crash would be very small. Also, a lot of the fun of a gyroplane is flying low over the landscape, making parachutes ineffective.

Two way radios can be added to almost any aircraft, but are not required by the FAA except in some areas of "controlled airspace."

A question that should be asked is about the cost. I'm guessing $50,000 or more. The cost to each member of the club would depend upon the number of members. More members equal less cost. But, more members means less availability of the aircraft, especially in Florida's rainy season. Remember that the engine requires a costly overhaul after a certain number of hours of use.

Where would the aircraft be housed? What security would be provided? From what field would you fly? What would insurance cost with multiple pilots of varying degrees of piloting skill and experience?

Even with all these issues, it looks like flying one of these things would be a lot of fun.

Rotax 914 UL/F - Rotax Aircaft Engines (http://www.flyrotax.com/produkte/detail/rotax-914-ul-f.html)

Great post and the very questions that would need to be answered once we'd get the group together. I'm new to this and would be a learning experience for me also. AOPA has some material that could be useful. I see a lot of the Light Sport Aircraft using Rotax. TBO is 2000 hours. Cost of the aircraft run anywhere from about $68000 to $109000 for the Autogyro Certified Calidus. The other point is the club would need an A&P to do the annual inspection and the 100 hour inspections. Sometimes you get lucky and have an A&P and a CFI as part of the club. Cloud 9 Helicopters out of West Palm Beach sells the AutoGyro line. I did get a quote on the insurance and its around $5400 a year for Liability and Hull on the Calidus. What the agent indicated is that number could go either way depending on the experience of the club members. Most of the clubs I researched require monthly dues and then also charge for engine time. They have an overhaul fund which is usually funded over time by the fees collected. I fly out of SunAir (Fixed Wing) at Leesburg and I know you could get Hanger Space from them, Brian Sapp is the owner and I have not checked as to what he would charge for a Gyro. Does not take up much floor space in the hanger. I got hooked on Rotor Craft after taking some helicopter instruction. This thing is just a ball to fly. You can do a 180 on a dime. Its low and slow and you get to see everything. Anyway I thought I'd start the thread and see how many people would be interested. As you say the more people, the less per person. There is a point where you have too many. If we get enough interest then we could get together and start putting together the details.