Europe: car vs. train vs. bus tour

[NJblue]

My wife and I are planning a trip to Europe (perhaps Germany, Austria, Switzerland and Italy) and are considering 3 alternatives: rent a car, take trains, or take a guided bus tour. They all seem to have their positives and negatives. Here is how I see them but would like to get the inputs of more experienced travellers.

Bus Tour: This would be the most convenient with no need to worry about hotel reservations or (hopefully) schlepping bags to/from rooms and bus. (Question: is this latter assumption true?) However, this convenience comes at a cost both in real dollars as well as flexibility. (Question: are tours more costly then "roll your own" vacations or might they be cheaper because of volume discounts that the tour company gets?). What I am most concerned about this type of trip is the loss of flexibility. We may want to take some side trips that are not on the itinerary, or perhaps linger a bit longer in a particular spot than what the tour allows.

Car rental: This would seem to offer the greatest flexibility, but I'm not sure of car rental rates (even the price of gas may make this quite expensive). Plus, I'm not sure about parking a car and the hassles of driving in unfamiliar areas with signs in a foreign language.

Trains: This may be a good compromise with respect to flexibility between cities, but I wonder about once you get into a city/town and want to make side trips where the rail line doesn't go. Also, this seems to be the worst scenario in terms of bag schlepping. I suppose taxis can get you from the station to your hotel, but if you stay in smaller hotels, how easy is it to get a cab to return to the station? Might this be the lowest cost option? When traveling by trains and auto, what is the best way to get a hotel room? Reserve ahead before your trip or take pot luck when you get into town (we will probably be traveling in non-peak times).

One final question, does anyone belong to any of the Villages travel clubs and if so, which one would be the best to talk to people in person about their travel experience. I have been to Germany a few times on business, but vacation travel is different than business travel. My wife has traveled extensively in Europe when she was in her 20's but, that was a long time ago.

[gump1]

My wife and I have been on five escorted bus tours with Insight Vacations in the last four years. Three of them have been to Europe and we absolutely love them.

You see a lot of sites in a very short period of time and as a result it is not a relaxing vacation and our thoughts are we can rest when we get home. We would not be able to get into as many sites on our own as we can on a tour. For example the day we went to the Palace of Versailles was a national holiday and the wait for the general public was four hours, yet we had an appointed time for our group and walked right in. It was busy inside but at least we didn't have the wait. We found the same situation at sites such as the Vatican Museum, Dodges Palace in Venice, Eagles Nest in Salzburg, etc.

Bus tours aren't for everyone but we really love them and are going back to Italy with Insite again next year.

[Army Guy]

NJ BLue, first, you will an EXCELLENT time. I lived, ok I was stationed in Europe twice for a total of 4 years, so I can definitely help you as I have done all three of your options. But the first question I must ask is how long are you going for? That will really determine what you need to do.
Option 1: Bus tours are ok, but only if really pressed for time and want to see the most in a little period. But as you said NO flex at all. Yes, they will tote your bags, but my suggestion is pack light. And I suggest this for all the options. Pick things you can make many outfits out of, and remember Europeans unless you are young, dress more formal then we do here. What I mean is you should pack like chinos, dress slacks and golf type shirts and a windbreaker or sport jacket ( Europe is a higher lat so not as warm as here even in summer.)
Option 2: Car Rental is higher in Europe and so is gas. BUT you have control of your time. The signs are very easy to understand as they use graphics like we do here. Just the City Names are spelled out and Ausfahrt means "Exit". I knew a guy whole kept asking just how big this city of Ausfahrt was! But to REALLY see Europe this is the best way. Parking in Cities can be a bear, so park outside and use mass transit in.
Option 3: Trains and mass transit in Europe IS WONDERFULL!!!! Nothing like the US, they go to just about everyplace you want, and you can get a Railpass cheap, opt for 1st or Erste class, it is well worth the cost which usually is not much more. It is less crowded and you can make reservations for actual seats within a compartment.
Needless to say I could tell you volumes more, PM or email me and I will give you more details.
But your choice should be based on time and what exactly you want to see cover, Europe is FULL of stuff, and I could easily spend 1-2 weeks in just one of the countries you mentioned.

Army Guy

[Taj44]

We bought a Europass (rail) and traveled throughout parts of Switzerland and Italy, and it worked out great for us. We traveled light - if you look at the Rick Steves website (Rick has a show on PBS regarding Europe travel) he has tips on clothes to bring and how to pack. So we each had the equivalent of a carry on bag on wheels, and small daypacks. We picked hotels or B&B's near the train stations, or in areas where we could walk to. We did some side trips using local rental cars and even have taken local buses. Most everyone speaks English and are willing to help.

Some people really like tours, but we have found it cheaper to do the tour itinerary on our own, and we like having the flexibility. If you plan well in advance, you can generally get tickets to the important museums/attractions ahead of time, sometimes online. And not being with a group of people we found ourselves intermingling more with the natives which was an enriching experience. In Italy we took local trains to Cinque Terre which is where the Italians go on vacation. Its very beautiful, on the Mediterranean, and we ended up renting a pullout bed in the living room of a local Italian woman who was the cook at a restaurant in one of the small towns. It was an unforgetable experience. We went on our own to local markets to buy food for lunch, we bought a map and did some hikes in the Cinque Terre region that most tourists would never see. In Switzerland the owner of the B& B in Muerren we stayed in gave us good tips on hiking opportunties. But we tend to be on the adventurous side. Many people need the comfort level of a tour. Good luck and enjoy!

[swrinfla]

NJ:

gump1, Army Guy and Taj44 all make excellent points. Whichever way you decide to go, you should have a superb time.

A couple of thoughts from a former travel agent who now plans his own trips - me.

Packaged tours can be wonderful or they can be a nightmare. You are somewhat limited in your freedom to do exactly your own thing, but you should also have a less stressful time, because all the planning and logistics and worries are taken care of by someone else! And, a good tour director or guide or whatever knows all the ropes, and can cope with the day-to-day stuff as well as the emergency stuff. He/she should also be highly skilled at soothing short tempers or frictions between travelers - which shouldn't happen.

You must be comfortable with the idea of traveling in close quarters (a motorcoach - that's the "preferred" term for a bus) every day. On the many trips I've taken, there developed a friendship that, in many cases, prevails today, years later.

Yes, renting a car provides you with the ultimate freedom. BUT, you lose the knowledge a tour director can give you. You lose the camaraderie of a group. You do have to drive in a strange country, but most signs are universal, only directional signs might pose problems, although most are in English as well as the local language. To my way of thinking, the worst aspect of driving is the horrible, horrible traffic you may find in a larger city AND the near impossibility of finding convenient parking.

Trains are ideal for getting around, but you should limit your luggage severely (you'll want to anyway - I saw this morning that several airlines will increase the cost of each checked bag on domestic and international flights); some train stations have lots of stairs to be negotiated.

If you do your own thing, and do travel "off-season," you can wing it for most of your trip, probably. I always recommend that at least your first night and your last be booked before you depart the States. The first because you'll not want to spend half the afternoon after your over-night flight searching for a bed, especially should you arrive when there's some big convention in town, or whatever. The last night, because you'll need to be fairly close to the airport or else you may have a really stressful morning getting there in time.

Finally, if you do do your own thing, etc., and if your arrive in a city by train, there is almost always a manned information booth/kiosk/table where you can find a local bed in which to collapse! The people there are very friendly and helpful.

Questions? You may PM me. I'll try to help where I can.

SWR
:beer3:

[REH7380]

I have driven through Europe a number of times and in fact our last trip was from Paris to Italy. How you travel is of course a personal preference but I believe you get the best out of a trip if you drive and just as important you plan before you go. Half of the fun of a trip is planning before you go. This includes getting maps of the cities (Barnes and Noble) you will be in and study them, understand the sites and whether you should use public transportation of walk between them. I was told by one of my employees in Paris that there are 3 rules an American should follow when driving in Europe. 1. Remember the car on the right always has the right away, 2. Don't keep looking back over your shoulder as the car behind you is responsible for you and 3. Don't use the left lane unless you are passing. You can get great road maps of Europe (again Barnes & Noble)which helps you plan your driving. In planning distances you should remember the distances you can drive in Europe is not as far as in the US. I think a good rule of thumb is to plan no more than 250 Km per day which is aout 150 miles. It makes the tirp more fun and relaxing. If driving in Italy you must have an International Driving Licence which is easy to get by just going to the nearest AAA office. It is much more fun to drive in Europe than the US as the cars are smaller and more fun to drive. As I mentioned I have driven a number of times in Europe and never had a problem. One time I returned to Paris on a Sunday evening and was
in the traffic jam around the Arce de Triump. True to form, the traffic just kept flowing to the right and within a few minutes I was at the side street that I wanted to go down. That is a great example of how easy it is in Europe and the dance they do in traffic.
For first time planning a good way to start is to buy a big map of Europe (road map) with the cities. Tack it to a foam board and plan the trip from city to city. Have separate maps of cities and study what you want to see.
I always got a kick out of seeing a tourist standing on the corner in some city trying to decide what they will see next. That could have been done before they traveled and they will see twice as much as waiting until they get there.
Just some thoughts.

[cologal]

When I travel to Europe I look forward to using trains as transportation. The trip from Milan into Switzerland is breath taking. The TGV, high speed trains, allows for reservations in both First and Second Class...I have taken them all over France and into Switzerland.

All major cities have rail or subway systems so getting around town is pretty easy. I use guided day trips if there is something I want to see either in or out of town.

The only bummer is the train stations.....look out for pick pockets. One got me in Italy by spraying the back of my jacket with shaving cream. He offered me a napkin to clean it off. While I was trying to figure out how this happened he made off with my computer bag. They also like to work in teams, a pair tried to get me in the Paris metro. Unfortunately for them it was after my experience in Italy. They were bumping into me....an when one of them reached into my pocket I was nearly depants. They were really bad pick pockets.

Enjoy your trip....The food in Italy is to die for.

[chachacha]

i am a big fan of organized bus tours but if you decide to rent a car, read the small print...some companies in germany do not let you take their car to italy. you may have to drop one off and rerent over the border...a friend and i drove around italy two years ago and i found it very stressful...and i speak italian! i looked all over a sicilian city for a lovely church i had seen so easily on a bus tour years before and never did find it. however, we did make one lovely discovery which we might have missed on a tour. i found the signs very small and so many on a pole that you could not read them quickly enough. some of the places we had rented ahead of time were less than idyllic...but however you decide to go, any little aggravations are soon forgotten and the lovely memories of the whole experience take precedence. one tour director from Go Ahead Vacations, which i have used many times, saved us during an Alitalia strike and got us on a flight to canada while others were waiting three days at the airport to get on a flight...so there are pros and cons but my personal preference is the escorted bus tour.

[cglenhar]

We just got back from our 2nd Europe trip.

The first was a bus (Costa) trip ten years ago. It was very organized and controlled. The Hotels were small European and lovely, but you often shared a bathroom, and had windows that opened rather than air conditioning. While that was OK with my family, some Americans on the trip were uncomfortable with that aspect. We thought the quaint accommodations with unbelievable views, and extras like feather beds, more than made up for the lack of "American Style" comfort. We wanted to experience Europe a little more like the Europeans do. It was a great way to avoid the language thing and to see a lot in a short period of time (you cut through most lines to attractions). You were, however, kept to a strict schedule and the only people that you had time to meet were those on the bus.

This recent trip you can read about in my blog here on TOTV. We loved the Riviera by cruise ship (NCL). The "free lance" part of our trip was nice but the trains and other public transportation methods were a disappointment to me. Eurail passes were costly and restrictive. Trains and cheep airlines were available to major cities (Paris, Barcelona, Rome) but I couldn't get to Zurich reasonably to save my life. Europeans are much more willing to suffer inconvenience than we Americans. I found the schedules, restrictions hard to tolerate. Italy especially had a different concept of time tables than I did. If the bus didn't show up for a few hours, sey le vie. grrrr. Lots of walking, and waiting.

My daughter did have a great time backpacking, taking trains and staying in Hostels once she left us.

I was going to rent a car and I did get my international license (available at AAA), but I was glad we didn't do that. Parking was impossible in most major cities, and the road signs were often difficult for me to understand.

Good luck and let us know how everything went. You are going to love the trip!

[Taj44]

We just got back from our 2nd Europe trip.

The first was a bus (Costa) trip ten years ago. It was very organized and controlled. The Hotels were small European and lovely, but you often shared a bathroom, and had windows that opened rather than air conditioning. While that was OK with my family, some Americans on the trip were uncomfortable with that aspect. We thought the quaint accommodations with unbelievable views, and extras like feather beds, more than made up for the lack of "American Style" comfort. We wanted to experience Europe a little more like the Europeans do. It was a great way to avoid the language thing and to see a lot in a short period of time (you cut through most lines to attractions). You were, however, kept to a strict schedule and the only people that you had time to meet were those on the bus.

This recent trip you can read about in my blog here on TOTV. We loved the Riviera by cruise ship (NCL). The "free lance" part of our trip was nice but the trains and other public transportation methods were a disappointment to me. Eurail passes were costly and restrictive. Trains and cheep airlines were available to major cities (Paris, Barcelona, Rome) but I couldn't get to Zurich reasonably to save my life. Europeans are much more willing to suffer inconvenience than we Americans. I found the schedules, restrictions hard to tolerate. Italy especially had a different concept of time tables than I did. If the bus didn't show up for a few hours, sey le vie. grrrr. Lots of walking, and waiting.

My daughter did have a great time backpacking, taking trains and staying in Hostels once she left us.

I was going to rent a car and I did get my international license (available at AAA), but I was glad we didn't do that. Parking was impossible in most major cities, and the road signs were often difficult for me to understand.

Good luck and let us know how everything went. You are going to love the trip!

I agree with your comments regarding car rental in large cities. From what I observed, it would not be a fun driving experience. We did a car rental in Portugal, and it allowed us to visit small towns in southern/western Portugal. We also had a car rental through Andalucia (southern Spain) to visit the small towns, and it was easy driving. I'd skip a private rental in the large cities, though.

[l2ridehd]

Everyone has made excellent points and as you can tell, everyone has a way they prefer to get around Europe. My preference is a combination of train and car. I have not done the bus tour so I can't comment. It just seems to controlled for me. Almost all major attraction's you can get pre-travel tickets on the Internet so waiting in line is not as much of a problem as you might expect. Rick Steve's books are excellent, both for travel tips and dining recommendations. Car rentals are usually cheaper if done in country. (pick up and drop off in same country) And trains for major travel distance works well. Although all of Europe is actually fairly small and driving from Germany to Italy is measured in hours not days. Large cities you don't really need a car. (Paris, Florence, Barcelona, Munich, etc.) But still very worth while to rent and drive in the country side. And you have to drive the Autobahn in Germany at least once in your lifetime and even Italy was not a problem driving and the only way to see Tuscany and all those small old villages. Bicycles work well in Copenhagen and even the wine country of France and again can be rented fairly easy. PLAN PLAN PLAN. With the Internet, virtualtourist.com, Rick Steve's books, maps, city web sites, you can build your own itinerary for every day. It is actually very easy. Go spend $50 to $100 on books and maps and PLAN some more. That is really half the fun. There is so much to see in every country that the first thing you run out of is time. Good luck.

[Bob S]

If this is a first trip to Europe I would recommend that you consider a cruise. You get a great overview with very little hassle. No need to constantly pack and unpack and your "hotel" moves with you as you sleep.

My wife and I did a 12 night Mediteraanean Cruise from Rome to Venice with Princess. We visited 10 cities in the 12 days and avoided the drudgery of intercity travel. Our meal costs were also locked in for most of the trip. We booked a hotel for an extra few nights in both Rome and Venice. It was a great vacation.

Enjoy!

[NJblue]

Thanks everyone for your insight and encouragement. Yes, we really will enjoy the planning aspect. We have our DVR set to record all travel-related shows about the countries that we may visit and then have a Saturday morning ritual of watching the shows while we have our coffee and breakfast. It certainly whets the appetite for travel.

One comment that someone made about steps in the train station has me a bit concerned. My wife has bad knees and doesn't do steps that well. Are they like the US where you can usually find an elevator for people with disabilities?

[swrinfla]

NJ:

I wouldn't count on it 100%. The Europeans are still a little behind the power curve when it comes to accommodating those with disabilities.

That said, it seems to me that the worst you might have to cope with is only one flight of stairs.

Unless your bride is really unable to cope, I'd say, "Go for it, anyway!"

SWR
:beer3: