Politically Correct

[redwitch]

This is a hot button for many. They see being politically correct as an infringement of free speech. I can't say I'm really PC since I still use male/female descriptive statements. My basic rule is that if something I say will hurt another person, I try not to say it. If that's being PC, then I'll proudly wear that mantle.

I don't take offense when people say they drank the Kool-Aid, it just hurts me. It reminds me of a young man I taught to drive and his death at the hands of his mother in Jonestown. So, yes, I ask that people not use that phrase. Some have understood and don't use it around me. Some think I'm overly sensitive and I should get over it. I just know that if the situation were reversed, I would never use that phrase around that person again.

If I see something hurtful here, I will try to speak up. What others choose to do about my comments is up to them. I'm not trying to shame someone when I make a comment but rather hoping they might see the pain they are causing another and take down or change their wording.

So, be PC or not, but please try to be kind and thoughtful. Whether we like it or not, words hurt, sometimes more than sticks and stones.

And off of this soapbox for now.

[Taltarzac725]

This is a hot button for many. They see being politically correct as an infringement of free speech. I can't say I'm really PC since I still use male/female descriptive statements. My basic rule is that if something I say will hurt another person, I try not to say it. If that's being PC, then I'll proudly wear that mantle.

I don't take offense when people say they drank the Kool-Aid, it just hurts me. It reminds me of a young man I taught to drive and his death at the hands of his mother in Jonestown. So, yes, I ask that people not use that phrase. Some have understood and don't use it around me. Some think I'm overly sensitive and I should get over it. I just know that if the situation were reversed, I would never use that phrase around that person again.

If I see something hurtful here, I will try to speak up. What others choose to do about my comments is up to them. I'm not trying to shame someone when I make a comment but rather hoping they might see the pain they are causing another and take down or change their wording.

So, be PC or not, but please try to be kind and thoughtful. Whether we like it or not, words hurt, sometimes more than sticks and stones.

And off of this soapbox for now.

I recall the Jim Jones Cult mess. Jim Jones - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Jones) I had a Sociology of Religion Professor who had researched it quite a bit. This was James Richardson at the University of Nevada, Reno. Quite a tragedy for the mothers, fathers, kids, and friends of these people. James T. Richardson - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_T._Richardson)

[Villager Joyce]

The Golden Rule comes to mind.

[Steve9930]

Always be thoughtful and polite but if you don't like what people say then just do not hang out with these people, that is your choice. The PC culture goes astray when they believe their vue is morally superior and acts to silence the individual.

[justjim]

"My basic rule is that if something I say will hurt another person, I try not to say it". Redwich, call it what you want, I like that.

[Taltarzac725]

I just use the Ignore List quite a lot. I do peek once in a while with the View Post feature available after you put someone on your Ignore List.

If you are on the information highway you will encounter the Good Samaritan like Redwitch and others but also those full of road rage, very slow drivers, very fast drivers, and accidents I often have trouble not looking at quite a bit.

And hope that the Moderator takes those drivers on the information off who break a lot of the rules of the road.

[ColdNoMore]

This is a hot button for many. They see being politically correct as an infringement of free speech. I can't say I'm really PC since I still use male/female descriptive statements. My basic rule is that if something I say will hurt another person, I try not to say it. If that's being PC, then I'll proudly wear that mantle.

I don't take offense when people say they drank the Kool-Aid, it just hurts me. It reminds me of a young man I taught to drive and his death at the hands of his mother in Jonestown. So, yes, I ask that people not use that phrase. Some have understood and don't use it around me. Some think I'm overly sensitive and I should get over it. I just know that if the situation were reversed, I would never use that phrase around that person again.

If I see something hurtful here, I will try to speak up. What others choose to do about my comments is up to them. I'm not trying to shame someone when I make a comment but rather hoping they might see the pain they are causing another and take down or change their wording.

So, be PC or not, but please try to be kind and thoughtful. Whether we like it or not, words hurt, sometimes more than sticks and stones.

And off of this soapbox for now.

A superbly admirable goal...and great post! :bigbow:


While I readily admit that I sometimes succumb and react to those I feel are constantly mean-spirited and let their nastiness show (both overtly and subtly), I am at least honest enough to recognize the irony of my sometimes intolerance...toward those who are consistently intolerant. :shrug:

[Bowtorc]

I agree

[golfing eagles]

"My basic rule is that if something I say will hurt another person, I try not to say it". Redwich, call it what you want, I like that.

Good advice, but that is common courtesy. PC has gone way beyond that, with rules for gender self-identification, illegal aliens referred to as "undocumented", and assaults on the American flag. The latest is police cannot call a suspect a suspect, they must refer to them as "community members" Enough is enough.

[Steve9930]

It basicly comes down to this, you can say what you please and I can choose to !isten or not. I also will stand up and defend your right to say what just may turn my stomach.

[rubicon]

"Politically correct" surprise the term "politically"didn't trigger a moderator to move this threat to "political talk"
However, I am glad a moderator has not because Political Talk has a few posters who identify as trolls:D

As to the subject manner First Amendment, Right To Free Speech is guaranteed to to offend someone.

Political correctness has Marxist beginnings meant to suppress free speech..trigger warning, micro-agressions, claims of cultural appropriations can not survive in a democratic society.

[Steve9930]

"Politically correct" surprise the term "politically"didn't trigger a moderator to move this threat to "political talk"
However, I am glad a moderator has not because Political Talk has a few posters who identify as trolls:D

As to the subject manner First Amendment, Right To Free Speech is guaranteed to to offend someone.

Political correctness has Marxist beginnings meant to suppress free speech..trigger warning, micro-agressions, claims of cultural appropriations can not survive in a democratic society.

Right on target. Once you start to apply filters to speach, you start to limit freedom of thought. One must also understand that there are consequences to what you say. While the constitution limits the Government's power it does nothing to limit the mob mentality of society.

[manaboutown]

The principles of political correctness have been used by totalitarian regimes such as the Nationalist Socialist party (Nazis) in Germany and the Communist party (Reds) of the USSR to subjugate and control their populaces. I refuse to knuckle under to PC demands and shall continue, for example, to call an illegal alien an illegal alien as that term is most accurately descriptive.

[dewilson58]

Too much PC for me.

[Taltarzac725]

Politically correct to me means that people are all saying the same thing because of fear of some central authority and what that power might do to them. Just being kind to others is quite different.

[redwitch]

Too much PC for me.
:p :p :p

[Fredman]

No pc for me

[Toymeister]

I am a Department of Defense employee. This year I had to take transgender sensitivity training. That is not a joke. You paid me to take that PC training. I was and am offended. You should be as well. It is impossible to please everyone,political correctness has gone too far.

[xNYer]

The principals of political correctness have been used by totalitarian regimes such as the Nationalist Socialist party (Nazis) in Germany and the Communist party (Reds) of the USSR to subjugate and control their populaces. I refuse to knuckle under to PC demands and shall continue, for example, to call an illegal alien an illegal alien as that term is most accurately descriptive.

Obviously Nazi's engaged in politically correct behavior to avoid offending minorities?

[Allegiance]

In a role play during a government sensitivity training class I once suggested that the "victim" be sent to oversensitivity training. The instructor did not think it was funny.

I still do. The pc bs has gone wayyyy too far.

[Sandtrap328]

The principals of political correctness have been used by totalitarian regimes such as the Nationalist Socialist party (Nazis) in Germany and the Communist party (Reds) of the USSR to subjugate and control their populaces. I refuse to knuckle under to PC demands and shall continue, for example, to call an illegal alien an illegal alien as that term is most accurately descriptive.


What are some of the principles of political correctness you are speaking about in your first sentence?

As for your second sentence, I hope you do not call other races, ethnicities, gendered identified, etc by names not "PC".

We have to have and to use common courtesy in speaking of and about others.

[ColdNoMore]

What are some of the principles of political correctness you are speaking about in your first sentence?

As for your second sentence, I hope you do not call other races, ethnicities, gendered identified, etc by names not "PC".

We have to have and to use common courtesy in speaking of and about others.

:thumbup:


In an awful lot of cases, being 'politically correct' is simply another name...for exhibiting 'manners.' :shrug:

[Taltarzac725]

Obviously Nazi's engaged in politically correct behavior to avoid offending minorities?

Control of speech is what the Nazis and other totalitarian regimes did. If you spoke up against Hitler you were mentally ill, an enemy of the state, and/or headed for the gas chambers.

[dbussone]

:thumbup:


In an awful lot of cases, being 'politically correct' is simply another name...for exhibiting 'manners.' :shrug:



And in many, being PC is intended to obfuscate the truth, e.g.,

Undocumented worker = illegal alien

Undocumented pharmacist = drug dealer (my favorite)

Bald- Comb free

Blind- Visually challenged

Bum - Homeless Person

Cannibalism - Intra-Species Dining

Cheating - Academic Dishonesty

Cowardly - Challenge Challenged

Dead - living impaired

Dish Washer - utensil sanitizer

Fat - People of Mass or I'm just "thick"

Gang - Youth Group

Homeless - outdoor urban dwellers

Insult - Emotional Rape

Midget / Dwarf - Little People

Redneck - person of region

Drunk - spacially perplexed

Dishonest - Ethically disoriented.

Garbage Man - sanitation engineer

Gas Station Attendent - petroleum transfer technician

Mankind- Earth Children

Geek, Nerd, - socially challenged

Loser - uniquely fortuned individual on an alternative career path

I'm sure you get my point. Sometimes "manners" is just another way of obfuscating. In the real world of work, I used to call much of it "up the ladder sideways." Why would a person be a manager, when they managed nothing. How about a director who had no direction.

[emoji41]


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[manaboutown]

:thumbup:


In an awful lot of cases, being 'politically correct' is simply another name...for exhibiting 'manners.' :shrug:

Being politically correct is a sign of being brainwashed.

[ColdNoMore]

Thanks to all that proved my point...I appreciate it. :ho:

[Uberschaf]

I wish offended people would react like fainting goats and quietly tip over.

[rubicon]

I wish offended people would react like fainting goats and quietly tip over.

:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[rubicon]

The application of politically correct speech primary purpose is to stifle debate and one's opinion.

It use to be if someone desired to show good manners they simply remained reticent.

Unfortunately we have all too often and for too long witnessed that the art of reticence is lost on portion of our population

[golfing eagles]

What are some of the principles of political correctness you are speaking about in your first sentence?

As for your second sentence, I hope you do not call other races, ethnicities, gendered identified, etc by names not "PC".

We have to have and to use common courtesy in speaking of and about others.


Obviously agree, but there is a HUGE difference between a racial or ethnic slur and some of these "PC" terms.

I still refer to my grandson as a freshman, not a "first year", I think a "first year" best describes a baby in diapers.

I will continue to refer to a murder suspect as just that, not a "community member"

And if a 16 year old girl takes offense at being called a girl because she has "self identified" as gender neutral, well TFB. Very easy to identify her gender---and note that it is SHE, not ZE. Please keep HER out of the MEN's room.

[Bay Kid]

The Golden Rule comes to mind.

This says it all.

[Steve9930]

PC and being courteous and respectfull are not one in the same. The architects of PC would have you believe they are one and the same. PC is surpression of speach. PC is about controlling your tboughts and ideas to make them conform to someone's standards who be!ieves your ideas are incorrect and their ideas are far superior to yours. PC is the first step in the destruction of a free society. Its a tool used control the masses. So when you see people promte this it has nothing to do with common courtesy and being polite.

[dewilson58]

PC and being courteous and respectfull are not one in the same. The architects of PC would have you believe they are one and the same. PC is surpression of speach. PC is about controlling your tboughts and ideas to make them conform to someone's standards who be!ieves your ideas are incorrect and their ideas are far superior to yours. PC is the first step in the destruction of a free society. Its a tool used control the masses. So when you see people promte this it has nothing to do with common courtesy and being polite.

Yep

I have a daughter living in Seattle and she is afraid to speak in the liberal city.

[redwitch]

I totally agree that PC can be taken too far and be totally ridiculous. However, does being opposed to being PC really give someone the right to say things that they know are hurtful to another? Yes, we have the right to open our mouths and let vitriol spew but I do believe there should be a line and that line is being hurtful, deliberately rude or downright cruel. How do you justify to yourself and others deliberately hurting another simply because a word or phrase is innocuous to you but knowing it causes pain to another?

[Steve9930]

I totally agree that PC can be taken too far and be totally ridiculous. However, does being opposed to being PC really give someone the right to say things that they know are hurtful to another? Yes, we have the right to open our mouths and let vitriol spew but I do believe there should be a line and that line is being hurtful, deliberately rude or downright cruel. How do you justify to yourself and others deliberately hurting another simply because a word or phrase is innocuous to you but knowing it causes pain to another?

Free speach comes with risk. It comes with the risk of being offended. It also comes with the ability to ignore it. Just who will draw the line that can't be crossed? When it comes to safety of others its easy. You cannot shout "fire" in a crowded theator. When it comes to feelings its impossible to draw a line. PC is dangerous. Pepole died because others were afraid to speak. PC is intended to control not regulate civility. There is a book thousands of years old that regulates civility, the bible. There is no human today that can come up with any better rules.

[manaboutown]

PC and being courteous and respectfull are not one in the same. The architects of PC would have you believe they are one and the same. PC is surpression of speach. PC is about controlling your tboughts and ideas to make them conform to someone's standards who be!ieves your ideas are incorrect and their ideas are far superior to yours. PC is the first step in the destruction of a free society. Its a tool used control the masses. So when you see people promte this it has nothing to do with common courtesy and being polite.

:agree:

Well stated!

[Bonny]

PC can get out of hand. I try to be somewhat sensitive, but people can get so carried away with it. Let's rename the the Washington Redskins, let's stop the Seminoles from doing the signature chop.
How far do we take it ?
Of course, I do like being a domestic engineer. Makes me sound way more important. LOL ;)

[dbussone]

PC can get out of hand. I try to be somewhat sensitive, but people can get so carried away with it. Let's rename the the Washington Redskins, let's stop the Seminoles from doing the signature chop.

How far do we take it ?

Of course, I do like being a domestic engineer. Makes me sound way more important. LOL ;)



Wow, Bonny. A domestic engineer AND a domestic goddess! [emoji41]


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[Madelaine Amee]

PC can get out of hand. I try to be somewhat sensitive, but people can get so carried away with it. Let's rename the the Washington Redskins, let's stop the Seminoles from doing the signature chop.
How far do we take it ?
Of course, I do like being a domestic engineer. Makes me sound way more important. LOL ;)

We were watching European Rugby this past weekend. I was away from the TV and heard this singing American Indian chant, when I looked at the TV one of the teams was called "Chiefs" and the spectators were happily wearing headdresses and singing a chant and NOBODY was in the least bit bothered. We both remarked that it would never have been allowed in the U.S.

It's gone too far and is now in the stupid zone.

[Sandtrap328]

PC and being courteous and respectfull are not one in the same. The architects of PC would have you believe they are one and the same. PC is surpression of speach. PC is about controlling your tboughts and ideas to make them conform to someone's standards who be!ieves your ideas are incorrect and their ideas are far superior to yours. PC is the first step in the destruction of a free society. Its a tool used control the masses. So when you see people promte this it has nothing to do with common courtesy and being polite.

WRONG!

If, however, you believe what you said is correct, give some examples of political correctness speech is the first step in destroying a free society.

[graciegirl]

WRONG!

If, however, you believe what you said is correct, give some examples of political correctness speech is the first step in destroying a free society.

I will try. Anytime free communication is directed or squelched than free speech suffers.

Political Correctness, when we are directed by a group thinking THEY are more sensitive and caring than the rest of us, to use or not use certain words, doesn't change anyone's morality or attitude or the reality of the situation. . It doesn't make anyone MORE respected. It doesn't make an unusual situation or circumstance or person more understood or repected on accepted. It is "Kewl" for the young and aggravating as hell for the old.

Only a kind heart can really be the answer and in the face of that not working, a really good sense of humor, that sees that we are all part of a society that looks stupid occasionally. We cannot laugh at others unless we can laugh at ourselves.

This goes back to the picture of the pitiful man (IN HANDCUFFS) sitting with his pants around his ankles in a public place. It could be you or it could be me. I would expect that if it were me, that someone would find it a tad bit humorous.

That is the reason I stopped drinking.

[Barefoot]

Like Villager Joyce, I believe in following the Golden Rule. But sadly, sometimes I'm a work in progress.
Redwitch, thanks for starting an interesting Thread.

[ColdNoMore]

WRONG!

If, however, you believe what you said is correct, give some examples of political correctness speech is the first step in destroying a free society.

:BigApplause:

[redwitch]

To me, being PC is not a group or person acting nor thinking they are morally superior, it is pointing out how hurtful and wrong some words are. That's why the N and K words are no longer socially acceptable. It took folks standing up and saying those words were wrong and would not be be said in their presence or in their homes. It took courage and fortitude. Today, PC has gone too far and can be absolutely ridiculous. So, I know longer go by what is considered PC. Instead, I stand by my rule that if a word or phrase will hurt another, I don't use it around that person. Doesn't mean I won't utter that word away from them, just not around them.

For example, I have a potty mouth, to put it mildly. I have some friends who never curse, damn being about as strong their language gets. I do my very best to not curse around them. If I slip, I immediately apologize. Psychology was my major. Retarded was and is a clinical term referring to individuals with an extremely low IQ, ditto moron. Today, retarded has become mentally challenged. To me, mentally challenged is a total misnomer. It says nothing about the degree of retardation. Regardless, I do my best to not say retarded or moron when describing a person. I'll stick with mentally challenged unless I am speaking in a clinical sense, usually with a medical or psychiatric professional.

So, maybe we shouldn't worry so much whether something is PC. Maybe we should just try basic kindness, understanding and thoughtfulness. The hel...heck with the PC police. Seems like that would take care of most issues.

[Aw Man]

What are some of the principles of political correctness you are speaking about in your first sentence?

As for your second sentence, I hope you do not call other races, ethnicities, gendered identified, etc by names not "PC".

We have to have and to use common courtesy in speaking of and about others.

Good post. I agree with you.

[graciegirl]

Good post. I agree with you.

How do you feel about terms such as "greenies" and Tax payers. ;)

[Aw Man]

How do you feel about terms such as "greenies" and Tax payers. ;)

Both terms can be used to refer to others in a derogatory manner. If that's the intended use of either term, I'm against using them.

I was born and raised in Ohio. Over my adult years in Illinois, my friends often referred to me as the "Ohioan". I was always proud when they did so.
I was taken aback at my retirement party when all my friends told me the many, many derogatory definitions of the term "Ohioan" that is in common use in Illinois (and probably Michigan).

[Rapscallion St Croix]

To me, being PC is not a group or person acting nor thinking they are morally superior, it is pointing out how hurtful and wrong some words are. That's why the N and K words are no longer socially acceptable. It took folks standing up and saying those words were wrong and would not be be said in their presence or in their homes. It took courage and fortitude. .

That is not universal. Apparently it is perfectly alright to use the N word if you are a hip hop artist or a black comedian.

[2BNTV]

I remember when PC meant personal computer but class never is out of style.

Ann Landers

Class never runs scared.
It is sure-footed and confident.
It can handle anything that comes along.
Class has a sense of humor.
It knows a good laugh is the best lubricant for oiling the machinery of human relations.

Class never makes excuses.
It takes its lumps and learns from past mistakes.
Class knows that good manners are nothing more than a series of small, inconsequential sacrifices.

Class bespeaks an aristocracy that has nothing to do with ancestors or money.
Some wealthy “blue bloods” have no class, while individuals who are struggling to make ends meet are loaded with it.

Class is real.
It can’t be faked.

Class never tried to build itself by tearing others down.
Class is already up and need not strive to look better by making others look worse.

Class can “walk with kings and keep it’s virtue and talk with crowds and keep the common touch.” Everyone is comfortable with the person who has class because that person is comfortable with himself.

If you have class, you’ve got it made.

If you don’t have class, no matter what else you have, it doesn’t make any difference.”


― Ann Landers

[manaboutown]

Political correctness has literally run amuck for some years now. It has cost perfectly innocent people their livelihoods and reputations. For example the word "niggardly" has been around for quite a while. It was used by Chaucer, Milton and Shakespeare and is not even remotely related to "The N word". Indeed it has no racial connotations whatsoever. The Masticator: A Very Awkward, Uncomfortable Word of the Day: Niggardly (http://themasticator.blogspot.com/2006/12/very-awkward-uncomfortable-word-of-day.html) Yet folks who have used it quite appropriately on occasion have paid a heavy price because highly vocal, ignorant and uniformed people accused of them using "the N word". Washingtonpost.com: D.C. Mayor Acted 'Hastily,' Will Rehire Aide (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/local/longterm/williams/williams020499.htm)

[ColdNoMore]

I realize this won't change the minds of those who want to justify their use (or acceptance) of the 'N' word...but here it goes anyway.

Why Explaining 'The N-Word' To Non-Black People Is So Damn Exhausting | HuffPost (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/why-explaining-the-n-word-to-non-black-people-is-so-damn-exhausting_us_5910cb2de4b0d5d9049eef86)

Every black person who lives in the United States at some point or another comes to accept one thing: the “N-word” is not going away.

Whether you use it or not, whether you are OK with it or deeply offended by it, it’s a word weighted down with so much history and so much pain that is impossible to avoid.

The general consensus among most black people is that “******” is a word best left for us to grapple with. In other words: non-black people — and especially white people — shouldn’t use it. That means colloquially or derogatorily, in context or out. And honestly, we know you’re going to use it anyway, but don’t use it around us.

It would take too long to unpack all the arguments and counterarguments about why white people should avoid the word altogether.

Countless people have explained why there are no special excuses or circumstances for white people saying *****, and have outlined why this is not a double standard.

[redwitch]

I have a real simple rule: black, white, purple, green, polka dotted, I don't care. You will not use a racial slur in my home nor in front of me. You get one warning. The second time, you are kicked to the curb or I am long gone. What you do when I'm not around is up to you. I can't stop you but I will think less of you if I hear about it. The same is true if you try to publicly humiliate someone in a mean or vicious manner. Can't stop you but I certainly don't have to like or respect you.

[graciegirl]

I realize this won't change the minds of those who want to justify their use (or acceptance) of the 'N' word...but here it goes anyway.

Why Explaining 'The N-Word' To Non-Black People Is So Damn Exhausting | HuffPost (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/why-explaining-the-n-word-to-non-black-people-is-so-damn-exhausting_us_5910cb2de4b0d5d9049eef86)

I don't know anyone who uses the "n" word. That is not the point or the crux of any conversations on political correctness. PC is a new language that is a shelter for a new mode of communication that does not allow a spade to be called a spade.

We are not only being forced to accept we aren't kind or nice if we don't use ridiculous language, we are expected to build a whole new series of bathrooms when people who have identified as a certain gender have probably been using that gender's bathroom for a long time unnoticed. The very small numbers of individuals that this directly affects is so small as that most of us have never even noticed that they were using the bathroom that was different than their sex at birth. Most people don't ever want to hurt someone's feelings who are born with an atypical condition. The callous and unkind aren't going to be changed by a third type of bathroom.

[manaboutown]

Certain PC terms are simply inaccurate but are imposed on a population to achieve political agendas. Off hand the term "Native American" as it was invented and has been used by the PC crowd is preposterous. People of any racial background born in America are native Americans. The first people known to settle a designated area are aboriginal. The PC use of the term "Native American" is not only misdescriptive, it disenfranchises people born in America as native Americans.

The use of "red state" for Republican majority voting and "blue state" for Democrat majority voting feels counterintuitive to me. I still have to remind myself which is which because the color red has been prevalently used by socialistic countries such as the former USSR and China for many, many years. Therefore when I hear "red state" what comes to mind is "socialistic (Democrat) state". I still have to use "R is for Republican" as a mnemonic device. Language is powerful. He who controls it controls thinking patterns and viewpoints. Obviously the MSM came up with the red state - blue state designations which no doubt shape public feelings to some degree. Red vs. Blue: A history of how we use political colors - The Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/08/red-vs-blue-a-brief-history-of-how-we-use-political-colors/?utm_term=.d8957da3ad7f)

[manaboutown]

I realize this won't change the minds of those who want to justify their use (or acceptance) of the 'N' word...but here it goes anyway.

Why Explaining 'The N-Word' To Non-Black People Is So Damn Exhausting | HuffPost (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/why-explaining-the-n-word-to-non-black-people-is-so-damn-exhausting_us_5910cb2de4b0d5d9049eef86)

The "N" word is offensive to me and everyone I know. Terms found offensive by members of other groups are inappropriate and not to be tolerated either. This attitude relates to offensive language and has nothing to do with PC.

[Steve9930]

WRONG!

If, however, you believe what you said is correct, give some examples of political correctness speech is the first step in destroying a free society.


I don't have to give any example you just did it for me!

[Sandtrap328]

I don't have to give any example you just did it for me!

By saying I believe you to be wrong is an example of how political correctness in speech is destroying a free society?

Given the possibility I may be wrong, asking for examples is destroying a free society?

I don't understand your point.

[Sandtrap328]

I will try. Anytime free communication is directed or squelched than free speech suffers.

Political Correctness, when we are directed by a group thinking THEY are more sensitive and caring than the rest of us, to use or not use certain words, doesn't change anyone's morality or attitude or the reality of the situation. . It doesn't make anyone MORE respected. It doesn't make an unusual situation or circumstance or person more understood or repected on accepted. It is "Kewl" for the young and aggravating as hell for the old.

Only a kind heart can really be the answer and in the face of that not working, a really good sense of humor, that sees that we are all part of a society that looks stupid occasionally. We cannot laugh at others unless we can laugh at ourselves.

This goes back to the picture of the pitiful man (IN HANDCUFFS) sitting with his pants around his ankles in a public place. It could be you or it could be me. I would expect that if it were me, that someone would find it a tad bit humorous.

That is the reason I stopped drinking.


What I believe you are saying is it is wrong to impose certain words that may or may not have had different connotations in the past.

For example, my old high school football team name was changed from The Crusaders to The Bulldogs. PC and dumb? Maybe? Well, maybe not to the influx of Muslims in the school district. Did it hurt anyone to change it? No. Would a Muslim boy want to be a Crusader? Doubt it.

Go with the flow and remain kind and generous and we have a great life.
Anyhow, PC language is ridiculous at times - but it is not going to cause the downfall of America.

[Rapscallion St Croix]

The "N" word is offensive to me and everyone I know. Terms found offensive by members of other groups are inappropriate and not to be tolerated either. This attitude relates to offensive language and has nothing to do with PC.

So, help me out here. Is comparing one's own bowling skills to Special Olympics non PC or just offensive?

[Taltarzac725]

I have a real simple rule: black, white, purple, green, polka dotted, I don't care. You will not use a racial slur in my home nor in front of me. You get one warning. The second time, you are kicked to the curb or I am long gone. What you do when I'm not around is up to you. I can't stop you but I will think less of you if I hear about it. The same is true if you try to publicly humiliate someone in a mean or vicious manner. Can't stop you but I certainly don't have to like or respect you.

I remember getting upset when a woman I really like used the word "chink" when describing some neighbor. I did not say anything but it certainly cooled my feelings for her a great deal. I have had friends who are Japanese-American, Korean, Chinese, Chinese-American, etc. I try not to socialize with people who seem like bigots. Sometimes you have no choice though.

[manaboutown]

So, help me out here. Is comparing one's own bowling skills to Special Olympics non PC or just offensive?

Doing this perhaps would be more like comparing apples to oranges. Meaningless. At least if one is fully functional both physically and mentally...

[Steve9930]

By saying I believe you to be wrong is an example of how political correctness in speech is destroying a free society?

Given the possibility I may be wrong, asking for examples is destroying a free society?

I don't understand your point.

First there is a difference between typing WRONG and wrong. Second you made a judgment as me being wrong before I even gave and example. If you definitively say I'm wrong then there is no reason to give any example. This is exactly what the left uses to suppress thought. PC is just more then words, its attitude toward the user. The San Bernadino CA. event happened because the neighbors were afraid of being labelled racist. There are girls and boys, men and women. However Girls is an acceptable term today. If you use it you will be called a sexist or anti women. Communications is the most important part of solving any problem and every word even the 4 letter ones have a use under certain circumstances. To limit words is to limit thought. To ban words by some is to limit another's freedom of expression. I may not like your wording but I defend your right to say it, even to armed conflict. Some where along the line a group has decided that you just don't listen if your offended, but label the user negatively and demand they stop using the word. That's tyranny not freedom of thought. This has spread to the point on campuses where violence is being used to suppress speech. In history these are the beginning steps to domination of the society by tyrants, like Hitler, Stallon, Mao. Freedom comes with risk and at times being offended.

[manaboutown]

What I believe you are saying is it is wrong to impose certain words that may or may not have had different connotations in the past.

For example, my old high school football team name was changed from The Crusaders to The Bulldogs. PC and dumb? Maybe? Well, maybe not to the influx of Muslims in the school district. Did it hurt anyone to change it? No. Would a Muslim boy want to be a Crusader? Doubt it.

Go with the flow and remain kind and generous and we have a great life.
Anyhow, PC language is ridiculous at times - but it is not going to cause the downfall of America.

Thankfully my high schools teams were named the Hornets. I hope that designation stings no one today.

[Carl in Tampa]

Originally Posted by Steve9930
PC and being courteous and respectful are not one in the same. The architects of PC would have you believe they are one and the same. PC is suppression of speech. PC is about controlling your thoughts and ideas to make them conform to someone's standards who believe your ideas are incorrect and their ideas are far superior to yours. PC is the first step in the destruction of a free society. It's a tool used control the masses. So when you see people promote this it has nothing to do with common courtesy and being polite.

WRONG!

If, however, you believe what you said is correct, give some examples of political correctness speech is the first step in destroying a free society.

I am surprised that this thread has gone this far without someone mentioning George Orwell's novel 1984.

More than simply a novel, this book, published in 1948, was predictive of a future that we are fast approaching, where both the thoughts and the behavior of citizens are controlled by the government.

Start with the employment of the principal character in the book, Winston Smith. He works for the Ministry of Truth in the History Section, where he is daily called upon to destroy historical documents and write a "new" history. There are echos of current claims of "False News" or "Alternative Facts" that we hear about daily.

In this fictional region called Oceania, there are four ministries. 1. The Ministry of Truth - Dedicated to propaganda and altering historical documents. 2. The Ministry of Love - Dedicated to Law and Order by use of brutal physical and psychological force. 3. The Ministry of Peace - Dedicated to war efforts. There is never a global war; just little regional wars that are always breaking out. People who were our friends are now our enemies, and vice-versa. 4. The Ministry of Plenty - Devoted to rationing because everything is in short supply.

The story line of the novel is not the main point of the book. Rather, the separate discussions of the functions of the Ministries are the real point, although many people fail to read this part.

The discussion of the activities of the Ministry of Truth is most directly related to this thread on TOTV. In this, Orwell discusses in great detail how government control of the elements of discussion (Political Correctness) achieves control over the thinking of the citizens. He gives the example of how it becomes impossible for citizens to contemplate the overthrow of the government because they are not even able to think in those terms.

To the extent that free-thinking citizens submit to Politically Correct speech, they are surrendering their freedom, and are on the path to destruction of a free society.

----------------------------------------------------

The Constitution of the United States does not protect its citizens from being offended, nor does it limit offensive speech.

I do not go out of my way to offend people, nor do I use derogatory terms for ethnic groups. But, among terms that I have no problem using are "Illegal Aliens" for foreigners who are in our country illegally, and "Indians" for the peoples who were in America when the first Europeans arrived. Columbus did not call the natives "Indians" as an insult, but rather because he thought he had reached India.

Do yourself a favor and read 1984.

[Rapscallion St Croix]

Doing this perhaps would be more like comparing apples to oranges. Meaningless. At least if one is fully functional both physically and mentally...

I respect your command of gobbledygook and dancing around a question.

[manaboutown]

I respect your command of gobbledygook and dancing around a question.

Well as we used to say in the computer industry, "garbage in; garbage out".

[Steve9930]

Originally Posted by Steve9930
PC and being courteous and respectful are not one in the same. The architects of PC would have you believe they are one and the same. PC is suppression of speech. PC is about controlling your thoughts and ideas to make them conform to someone's standards who believe your ideas are incorrect and their ideas are far superior to yours. PC is the first step in the destruction of a free society. It's a tool used control the masses. So when you see people promote this it has nothing to do with common courtesy and being polite.


I am surprised that this thread has gone this far without someone mentioning George Orwell's novel 1984.

More than simply a novel, this book, published in 1948, was predictive of a future that we are fast approaching, where both the thoughts and the behavior of citizens are controlled by the government.

Start with the employment of the principal character in the book, Winston Smith. He works for the Ministry of Truth in the History Section, where he is daily called upon to destroy historical documents and write a "new" history. There are echos of current claims of "False News" or "Alternative Facts" that we hear about daily.

In this fictional region called Oceania, there are four ministries. 1. The Ministry of Truth - Dedicated to propaganda and altering historical documents. 2. The Ministry of Love - Dedicated to Law and Order by use of brutal physical and psychological force. 3. The Ministry of Peace - Dedicated to war efforts. There is never a global war; just little regional wars that are always breaking out. People who were our friends are now our enemies, and vice-versa. 4. The Ministry of Plenty - Devoted to rationing because everything is in short supply.

The story line of the novel is not the main point of the book. Rather, the separate discussions of the functions of the Ministries are the real point, although many people fail to read this part.

The discussion of the activities of the Ministry of Truth is most directly related to this thread on TOTV. In this, Orwell discusses in great detail how government control of the elements of discussion (Political Correctness) achieves control over the thinking of the citizens. He gives the example of how it becomes impossible for citizens to contemplate the overthrow of the government because they are not even able to think in those terms.

To the extent that free-thinking citizens submit to Politically Correct speech, they are surrendering their freedom, and are on the path to destruction of a free society.

----------------------------------------------------

The Constitution of the United States does not protect its citizens from being offended, nor does it limit offensive speech.

I do not go out of my way to offend people, nor do I use derogatory terms for ethnic groups. But, among terms that I have no problem using are "Illegal Aliens" for foreigners who are in our country illegally, and "Indians" for the peoples who were in America when the first Europeans arrived. Columbus did not call the natives "Indians" as an insult, but rather because he thought he had reached India.

Do yourself a favor and read 1984.

Great insight Carl. Will this become a self fore filling Prophesy? Will fiction become truth? Only time will tell.

[Carl in Tampa]

Originally Posted by Rapscallion St Croix
So, help me out here. Is comparing one's own bowling skills to Special Olympics non PC or just offensive?

Originally Posted by manaboutown
Doing this perhaps would be more like comparing apples to oranges. Meaningless. At least if one is fully functional both physically and mentally...

I respect your command of gobbledygook and dancing around a question.

Perhaps manaboutown didn't recognize President Obama's statement about his poor bowling skills and identifying with the limited skills of participants in the Special Olympics........... which many considered very offensive.

OR...... he simply wouldn't address the question directly.

[ColdNoMore]

Some of y'all crack me the heck up. :1rotfl:


NO ONE has stated that you shouldn't be able to use whatever words you want...or that they be made 'illegal.' :oops:


Some of us are simply saying, that you're gonna have to live with the ridicule, lack of respect and disgust from decent people...when you choose to use those words. :ohdear:


It really is...as simple as that. :ho:

[manaboutown]

Originally Posted by Rapscallion St Croix
So, help me out here. Is comparing one's own bowling skills to Special Olympics non PC or just offensive?

Originally Posted by manaboutown
Doing this perhaps would be more like comparing apples to oranges. Meaningless. At least if one is fully functional both physically and mentally...



Perhaps manaboutown didn't recognize President Obama's statement about his poor bowling skills and identifying with the limited skills of participants in the Special Olympics........... which many considered very offensive.

OR...... he simply wouldn't address the question directly.

I was indeed unaware of Obama's comment. It was of course very offensive. Thank you for posting this information, Carl.

[Nucky]

I'm serious, it is great to read what everyone has posted in this thread. I never had a chance to consider such things in my work life. It was survival of the fittest in deed and word and anything went. It was touchy sometimes. I wonder if PC is different regionally speaking?? The reason I mention that is people we have encountered in Florida are so reserved and not in your grill like in New Jersey, New York and Philly. Not one mean spirited word spoke to us since we moved here. Written words have been rough from time to time but normally from people from our neck of the woods.

[Carl in Tampa]

Some of y'all crack me the heck up. :1rotfl:


NO ONE has stated that you shouldn't be able to use whatever words you want...or that they be made 'illegal.' :oops:


Some of us are simply saying, that you're gonna have to live with the ridicule, lack of respect and disgust from decent people...when you choose to use those words. :ohdear:


It really is...as simple as that. :ho:

The issue is not that certain words might be made "illegal."

It is that by adhering to Political Correctness certain words are made "unacceptable." Or as YOU say, "... you're gonna have to live with the ridicule, lack of respect and disgust from decent people...when you choose to use those words."

And, as demonstrated in the novel 1984, this can lead to "Thought Crime" under the rules of "New Speak." Newspeak is a controlled language, of restricted grammar and limited vocabulary, a linguistic design meant to limit the freedom of thought—personal identity, self-expression, and free will. This can lead to enslavement of the minds of an entire population.

Congratulations, as an enforcer of New Speak, you have become a member of the Thought Police.

1984 is worthy of reading and serious contemplation.

[ColdNoMore]

The issue is not that certain words might be made "illegal."

It is that by adhering to Political Correctness certain words are made "unacceptable." Or as YOU say, "... you're gonna have to live with the ridicule, lack of respect and disgust from decent people...when you choose to use those words."

And, as demonstrated in the novel 1984, this can lead to "Thought Crime" under the rules of "New Speak." Newspeak is a controlled language, of restricted grammar and limited vocabulary, a linguistic design meant to limit the freedom of thought—personal identity, self-expression, and free will. This can lead to enslavement of the minds of an entire population.

Congratulations, as an enforcer of New Speak, you have become a member of the Thought Police.
.

My subtle (and quite clever, if only I think so :D) luring statement had its intended purpose, as you've just been ensnared by it, contradicted yourself...and proved me correct. :thumbup:

You're trying to equate a fictional novel, whereby incorrect thoughts/speech are actually 'illegal'...and are therefore punishable as a 'crime.'
'
Whereas, as I plainly stated (or at least I thought it was pretty plain :oops: )...no such thing exists in in this great country.

Soooo, your poor attempt at equating George's story as one that parallels our current society...is totally off-base and not even close. :ohdear:

Meaning of course, the only ramifications of continuing to use those words/phrases/statements that show a complete lack of manners and decency, will only invoke and earn ridicule/lack of respect/disgust...NOT any type of judicial action.



1984 is worthy of reading and serious contemplation.

Methinks you may want to read 1984 again. ;)

Maybe better luck next time though. :ho:



Deepest Sincere Wishes: :wave:

[Carl in Tampa]

My subtle (and quite clever, if only I think so :D) luring statement had its intended purpose, as you've just been ensnared by it, contradicted yourself...and proved me correct. :thumbup:

You're trying to equate a fictional novel, whereby incorrect thoughts/speech are actually 'illegal'...and are therefore punishable as a 'crime.'
'
Whereas, as I plainly stated (or at least I thought it was pretty plain :oops)...no such thing exists in in this great country.

Soooo, your poor attempt at equating Goerge's story as one that parallels our current society...is totally off-base and not even close. :ohdear:

Meaning of course, the only ramifications of continuing to use those words/phrases/statements that show a complete lack of manners and decency, will only invoke and earn ridicule/lack of respect/disgust...NOT any type of judicial action.


Methinks you may want to read 1984 again. ;)

Maybe better luck next time though. :ho:

Deepest Sincere Wishes: :wave:

Well, no.

The point of my original posting was that Political Correctness was a precursor to an era predicted by Orwell. Not that I was, in your words, "...equating Goerge's (sic) story as one that parallels our current society."

In fact, my exact words in my original post stated that the book, "...was predictive of a future that we are fast approaching." (Please read my posts with precision.)

We are not yet at the point in the USA where some words and attitudes are illegal, BUT......THEY ARE IN CANADA. In addition, they are illegal in Denmark, France, The Netherlands, the United Kingdom, Germany, Russia, Ireland, Sweden, and Finland.

Mexico now treats homophobic slurs as unprotected speech. You cannot be arrested for such speech, but you can be sued.

South Africa's new Hate Crimes bill forbids “prejudice, bias or intolerance” on the basis of race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, gender identity, etc. (It’s a long list.) It also calls out those who “stir up violence against or bring into contempt or ridicule” anyone on the basis of their beliefs or occupation — that includes government officials. Political cartoonists are particularly targeted.

I have not contradicted myself. I have merely pointed out that with the acceptance of Political Correctness of speech our culture is moving toward the one predicted by George Orwell, who was, by the way, an Englishman, and the novel 1984 was depicted as taking place in Socialistic England. Ingsoc (Newspeak for English Socialism or the English Socialist Party) is the political ideology of the totalitarian government of Oceania.

You really should read it.

[Steve9930]

Well, no.

The point of my original posting was that Political Correctness was a precursor to an era predicted by Orwell. Not that I was, in your words, "...equating Goerge's (sic) story as one that parallels our current society."

In fact, my exact words in my original post stated that the book, "...was predictive of a future that we are fast approaching." (Please read my posts with precision.)

We are not yet at the point in the USA where some words and attitudes are illegal, BUT......THEY ARE IN CANADA. In addition, they are illegal in Denmark, France, The Netherlands, the United Kingdom, Germany, Russia, Ireland, Sweden, and Finland.

Mexico now treats homophobic slurs as unprotected speech. You cannot be arrested for such speech, but you can be sued. 6

South Africa's new Hate Crimes bill forbids “prejudice, bias or intolerance” on the basis of race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, gender identity, etc. (It’s a long list.) It also calls out those who “stir up violence against or bring into contempt or ridicule” anyone on the basis of their beliefs or occupation — that includes government officials. Political cartoonists are particularly targeted.

I have not contradicted myself. I have merely pointed out that with the acceptance of Political Correctness of speech our culture is moving toward the one predicted by George Orwell, who was, by the way, an Englishman, and the novel 1984 was depicted as taking place in Socialistic England. Ingsoc (Newspeak for English Socialism or the English Socialist Party) is the political ideology of the totalitarian government of Oceania.

You really should read it.

Fiction often becomes reality. While others may think you are incorrect to think a fictional novel will become a reality only need to look at what is acceptable today versus 50 years ago. PC culture is as dangerous as any other limiting idea which strives to limit personal expression based only in secular wisdom.

[Polar Bear]

Imo, hate-filled name calling, and use of terms that are clearly offensive in the eyes of almost all rational human beings, has nothing to do with PC. The attempt to equate the two is an attempt to legitimize PC by those who support it.

[manaboutown]

Imo, hate-filled name calling, and use of terms that are clearly offensive in the eyes of almost all rational human beings, has nothing to do with PC. The attempt to equate the two is an attempt to legitimize PC by those who support it.

:agree:

[rubicon]

I am a Department of Defense employee. This year I had to take transgender sensitivity training. That is not a joke. You paid me to take that PC training. I was and am offended. You should be as well. It is impossible to please everyone,political correctness has gone too far.

Teachers are instructing/indoctrinating young kids into this LGBT thing as a civil right and as normal. a drag queen is teaching about transgenders in a NY library and we wondr why ids grow up troubled. Sex education ought to be left to parents.

Personal Best Regards:

[Sandtrap328]

Teachers are instructing/indoctrinating young kids into this LGBT thing as a civil right and as normal. a drag queen is teaching about transgenders in a NY library and we wondr why ids grow up troubled. Sex education ought to be left to parents.

Personal Best Regards:

Yes, the " LBGT thing" IS a civil right. The Supreme Court has decided that same sex marriage is legal.

Sex education ought to left to parents.:loco: Yeah, that has worked so well. :a20:

[graciegirl]

///

[golfing eagles]

///

:agree::agree::agree:

[Carl in Tampa]

Fiction often becomes reality. While others may think you are incorrect to think a fictional novel will become a reality only need to look at what is acceptable today versus 50 years ago. PC culture is as dangerous as any other limiting idea which strives to limit personal expression based only in secular wisdom.

The other seminal novel about a dystopian future, Brave New World by Aldous Huxley, was produced a few years before the novel 1984.

There are major contrasts between the two novels, but as in 1984 many elements of the Brave New World story can be seen in our current culture.

In Brave New World the government is devoted to promoting a life of pleasure for every citizen. Although there is a rigid class structure that is determined for each person before birth, every person is "conditioned" to believe that his class is best for him so he never becomes discontented.

There are no sexual morals, and there is no marriage; there is a State Motto that declares that "Everyone belongs to everyone else." Recreational drugs are dispensed by the government. Entertainment (especially movies in which you feel what the actors are depicting - called "Feelies") are everyday events.

There is little danger of revolt against the government because citizens are immersed in a painless, amusement-sodden, and stress-free consensus. There is no old age. As a person gets older, he has "galloping senility" and dies quickly. No one is buried. The bodies are recycled for energy to contribute further to society.

There is no viviparous birth. Human ova are nourished in World Hatcheries where their future class and occupation is pre-determined by the chemicals injected in their bottle, and by exposure to heat and cold, and other conditions.

The tension in the novel is introduced by the presence of "Mr. Savage," who is discovered on an American Indian Reservation where he was a live birth to a "Beta" class woman who had accidentally become pregnant, and who was abandoned on the Reservation by the man who impregnated her.

The son, John, (Savage) is brought back to Civilization, but he has not had the benefit of social conditioning, and he has been deeply immersed in Shakespeare and the King James version of the Bible. In particular, there is tension between the absence of sexual morals in the woman to whom John is attracted, and his strict view of sexual morals learned from the Bible.

What is John to do? Abandon his morals? Return to the Reservation? Strive to fit in to the culture in which he finds himself? Or..........

The novel is a very good read and I recommend it highly.

[Steve9930]

The other seminal novel about a dystopian future, Brave New World by Aldous Huxley, was produced a few years before the novel 1984.

There are major contrasts between the two novels, but as in 1984 many elements of the Brave New World story can be seen in our current culture.

In Brave New World the government is devoted to promoting a life of pleasure for every citizen. Although there is a rigid class structure that is determined for each person before birth, every person is "conditioned" to believe that his class is best for him so he never becomes discontented.

There are no sexual morals, and there is no marriage; there is a State Motto that declares that "Everyone belongs to everyone else." Recreational drugs are dispensed by the government. Entertainment (especially movies in which you feel what the actors are depicting - called "Feelies") are everyday events.

There is little danger of revolt against the government because citizens are immersed in a painless, amusement-sodden, and stress-free consensus. There is no old age. As a person gets older, he has "galloping senility" and dies quickly. No one is buried. The bodies are recycled for energy to contribute further to society.

There is no oviparous birth. Human ova are nourished in World Hatcheries where their future class and occupation is pre-determined by the chemicals injected in their bottle, and by exposure to heat and cold, and other conditions.

The tension in the novel is introduced by the presence of "Mr. Savage," who is discovered on an American Indian Reservation where he was a live birth to a "Beta" class woman who had accidentally become pregnant, and who was abandoned on the Reservation by the man who impregnated her.

The son, John, (Savage) is brought back to Civilization, but he has not had the benefit of social conditioning, and he has been deeply immersed in Shakespeare and the King James version of the Bible. In particular, there is tension between the absence of sexual morals in the woman to whom John is attracted, and his strict view of sexual morals learned from the Bible.

What is John to do? Abandon his morals? Return to the Reservation? Strive to fit in to the culture in which he finds himself? Or..........

The novel is a very good read and I recommend it highly.

Amazing how fiction can predict trends in society. I'm glad I will not survive to see it happen.

[ColdNoMore]

Fiction often becomes reality. While others may think you are incorrect to think a fictional novel will become a reality only need to look at what is acceptable today versus 50 years ago. PC culture is as dangerous as any other limiting idea which strives to limit personal expression based only in secular wisdom.


Really? :22yikes:


http://www.movieposter.com/posters/archive/main/71/MPW-35974




:D

[Carl in Tampa]

Amazing how fiction can predict trends in society. I'm glad I will not survive to see it happen.

Another element of 1984, that we have not touched upon is the pervasive surveillance of the populace by the government.

In 1984 every residence had a big screen television which had the capability of allowing the government to see into the room. We are seeing a step towards that condition with the fact that the new "Smart Television" sets are subject to having people outside your home see and hear what is going on in your house.


In addition, the Amazon corporation has acknowledged that their "Alexa" (or Echo) home appliance control system is capable of hearing every conversation that takes place within earshot. And, every conversation is recorded. Their earlier claim that the system was activated only when you said the alerting code word (Alexa or Echo) and then asked a question or gave an order was not true.

And, by now we all know that video cameras are present everywhere in public and private locations. This comes to light when there is a crime, a terrorist attack, or other noteworthy event takes place, and video becomes available. There are video cameras all over The Villages. In addition, more and more police cars (and private cars) have dash cameras, and police are starting to wear personal cameras.

Also, the National Security Agency has acknowledged that they collect "metadata" that indicates the calling number and called number of every telephone in the United States. In the case of representatives of foreign governments, the actual conversation is recorded, often sweeping American citizens into the collection.

Perhaps you don't know that there are programs which allow the government, and hackers, to turn on your cell telephone when it is turned off, and listen and watch what is going on.

It used to be that if you stepped foot outside your house you were being recorded. Now you may be recorded while you are inside your house. The same applies to many computer cameras, which is why people now put a piece of tape over the camera lens on their computer.

This is one prediction of 1984 that has come to pass. Big Brother is watching you.

[Steve9930]

Another element of 1984, that we have not touched upon is the pervasive surveillance of the populace by the government.

In 1984 every residence had a big screen television which had the capability of allowing the government to see into the room. We are seeing a step towards that condition with the fact that the new "Smart Television" sets are subject to having people outside your home see and hear what is going on in your house.


In addition, the Amazon corporation has acknowledged that their "Alexa" (or Echo) home appliance control system is capable of hearing every conversation that takes place within earshot. And, every conversation is recorded. Their earlier claim that the system was activated only when you said the alerting code word (Alexa or Echo) and then asked a question or gave an order was not true.

And, by now we all know that video cameras are present everywhere in public and private locations. This comes to light when there is a crime, a terrorist attack, or other noteworthy event takes place, and video becomes available. There are video cameras all over The Villages. In addition, more and more police cars (and private cars) have dash cameras, and police are starting to wear personal cameras.

Also, the National Security Agency has acknowledged that they collect "metadata" that indicates the calling number and called number of every telephone in the United States. In the case of representatives of foreign governments, the actual conversation is recorded, often sweeping American citizens into the collection.

Perhaps you don't know that there are programs which allow the government, and hackers, to turn on your cell telephone when it is turned off, and listen and watch what is going on.

It used to be that if you stepped foot outside your house you were being recorded. Now you may be recorded while you are inside your house. The same applies to many computer cameras, which is why people now put a piece of tape over the camera lens on their computer.

This is one prediction of 1984 that has come to pass. Big Brother is watching you.

Today there are systems that take all that data, crunch it, and perdict your responce at over a 90% accuracy.

[Sandtrap328]

Another element of 1984, that we have not touched upon is the pervasive surveillance of the populace by the government.

In 1984 every residence had a big screen television which had the capability of allowing the government to see into the room. We are seeing a step towards that condition with the fact that the new "Smart Television" sets are subject to having people outside your home see and hear what is going on in your house.


In addition, the Amazon corporation has acknowledged that their "Alexa" (or Echo) home appliance control system is capable of hearing every conversation that takes place within earshot. And, every conversation is recorded. Their earlier claim that the system was activated only when you said the alerting code word (Alexa or Echo) and then asked a question or gave an order was not true.

And, by now we all know that video cameras are present everywhere in public and private locations. This comes to light when there is a crime, a terrorist attack, or other noteworthy event takes place, and video becomes available. There are video cameras all over The Villages. In addition, more and more police cars (and private cars) have dash cameras, and police are starting to wear personal cameras.

Also, the National Security Agency has acknowledged that they collect "metadata" that indicates the calling number and called number of every telephone in the United States. In the case of representatives of foreign governments, the actual conversation is recorded, often sweeping American citizens into the collection.

Perhaps you don't know that there are programs which allow the government, and hackers, to turn on your cell telephone when it is turned off, and listen and watch what is going on.

It used to be that if you stepped foot outside your house you were being recorded. Now you may be recorded while you are inside your house. The same applies to many computer cameras, which is why people now put a piece of tape over the camera lens on their computer.

This is one prediction of 1984 that has come to pass. Big Brother is watching you.

/////???????/////

[graciegirl]

/////???????/////

If I had to choose between some arguments on here, I would choose Carl's about 90% of the time. He is a decent person and never uses anything but respectful language toward others in this Forum.. He is an ex Secret Service member and could tell us tons and tons if he could.

He is well read and very articulate which is a gift, because a lot of smart people are not as well spoken as Carl from Tampa.

We have met him and his lady companion and they don't disappoint in person. I wish he lived here instead of Tampa. The world needs more folks like him.

[Carl in Tampa]

If I had to choose between some arguments on here, I would choose Carl's about 90% of the time. He is a decent person and never uses anything but respectful language toward others in this Forum.. He is an ex Secret Service member and could tell us tons and tons if he could.

He is well read and very articulate which is a gift, because a lot of smart people are not as well spoken as Carl from Tampa.

We have met him and his lady companion and they don't disappoint in person. I wish he lived here instead of Tampa. The world needs more folks like him.

Thank you for the kind words, Gracie. If I were still able-bodied I would still be living in The Villages. However, my disability (no Political Correct language; I am handicapped) would be too much of a burden on Barbara for me to stay up there.

One of the very positive results of having found the TOTV website is having met you and your gracious family in person.

Let me take this opportunity to mention that I join you in wholehearted support of the Morse family for having developed the finest development for seniors that I have ever seen. There are others that are "nice," including those of Lawrence Welk and Del Webb.

There are retired Secret Service Agents of my demographic living in senior developments all over the country, including several in The Villages. I have visited some of these developments. None are as comprehensive in facilities, activities, and amenities, as The Villages.

To those who are discontent here, I can only say, "Go in Peace." The Villages is not for everyone, so seek something that suits you better. But, attacks on the Morse family and their manner of doing business is inappropriate and usually appears to be founded on class envy or jealousy.

Thanks, again, Gracie, for the support. I'll work on that other 10%.

[Rockyrd]

Another element of 1984, that we have not touched upon is the pervasive surveillance of the populace by the government.

In 1984 every residence had a big screen television which had the capability of allowing the government to see into the room. We are seeing a step towards that condition with the fact that the new "Smart Television" sets are subject to having people outside your home see and hear what is going on in your house.


In addition, the Amazon corporation has acknowledged that their "Alexa" (or Echo) home appliance control system is capable of hearing every conversation that takes place within earshot. And, every conversation is recorded. Their earlier claim that the system was activated only when you said the alerting code word (Alexa or Echo) and then asked a question or gave an order was not true.

And, by now we all know that video cameras are present everywhere in public and private locations. This comes to light when there is a crime, a terrorist attack, or other noteworthy event takes place, and video becomes available. There are video cameras all over The Villages. In addition, more and more police cars (and private cars) have dash cameras, and police are starting to wear personal cameras.

Also, the National Security Agency has acknowledged that they collect "metadata" that indicates the calling number and called number of every telephone in the United States. In the case of representatives of foreign governments, the actual conversation is recorded, often sweeping American citizens into the collection.

Perhaps you don't know that there are programs which allow the government, and hackers, to turn on your cell telephone when it is turned off, and listen and watch what is going on.

It used to be that if you stepped foot outside your house you were being recorded. Now you may be recorded while you are inside your house. The same applies to many computer cameras, which is why people now put a piece of tape over the camera lens on their computer.

This is one prediction of 1984 that has come to pass. Big Brother is watching you.

Another of the 1984 plot lines was "alternate facts", "emotional nationalism", which we are subject to today in our country.

Orwell wrote not of any party and blamed both sides rightfully so for the rise of this type of rhetoric as he lived through the rise of governments based on these things.

That and a term I like that he feared..."disbelieve in the existence of objective truth" always ring in my ears, almost on a daily basis.

The "listening" is not new and I am afraid we are going to have to get used to it, but I fear with great dread the day when we lose touch with truth.....when we are faced with preaching of "alternate facts"

[Rockyrd]

Both terms can be used to refer to others in a derogatory manner. If that's the intended use of either term, I'm against using them.

I was born and raised in Ohio. Over my adult years in Illinois, my friends often referred to me as the "Ohioan". I was always proud when they did so.
I was taken aback at my retirement party when all my friends told me the many, many derogatory definitions of the term "Ohioan" that is in common use in Illinois (and probably Michigan).

I think you are referring to CONTEXT, which is so very very important when quoting someone. I have gotten lots of grief when questioning what someone said by asking...."put that in context" and then feeling wrath about over thinking or some such thing.

[Carl in Tampa]

1. Another of the 1984 plot lines was "alternate facts", "emotional nationalism", which we are subject to today in our country.

2. Orwell wrote not of any party and blamed both sides rightfully so for the rise of this type of rhetoric as he lived through the rise of governments based on these things.

3. That and a term I like that he feared..."disbelieve in the existence of objective truth" always ring in my ears, almost on a daily basis.

4. The "listening" is not new and I am afraid we are going to have to get used to it, but I fear with great dread the day when we lose touch with truth.....when we are faced with preaching of "alternate facts"

You are very observant. The following are my views. (I numbered your paragraphs for ease in referencing them with my responses.)

1. I view "alternate facts" as political maneuvering, commonly referred to in the past as "spinning." I see "emotional nationalism" in a bit different light. It is my experience that members of the military, military veterans, and even police officers and police veterans, are generally fiercely patriotic and nationalistic.

2. I agree, but would point out that Orwell was an Englishman, living in England, and the statement would not extend to USA political parties. As you reference, he certainly observed the rise of Fascism and Communism in certain foreign countries. Further, he did name a political philosophy, Socialism, as the basis of tyranny in Oceania.

3. From a lifetime of interviewing eyewitnesses to crimes, and giving expert testimony in court, I can understand how belief in "objective truth" can get fuzzy. Different people can see the same act and perceive what they saw differently. They tend to interpret the action in the context of their life experience. "Spin," mentioned above, can also be a factor. But, I continue to believe in Objective Truth.

4. You are correct that we will have to get used to being watched, by the government and others. In fact anyone who has downloaded "applications" on a cell phone has unthinkingly agreed to all kinds of personal surveillance, in all likelihood including their location, their e-mail exchanges, the photos they have taken, and the identity of the web sites they have visited on their web browser. All this was voluntary.

[redwitch]

Boy, did this thread go on a tangent I never expected. I've read and loved both 1984 and Brave New World. I've thought for a long time that we're closer to 1984 than I care to think about. I don't like the idea of living in a world where every phone conversation I make is recorded or every word I write on a computer is there forever and never truly private. I hate how facts today are altered to prove a mindset rather than letting facts speak for themselves. I hate the biased reporting. I honestly just want the news. If I want an opinion of the news, I can find enough commentators to interpret the news given, but I want ALL of the news, not just the portion that makes that reporter and editor happy. And so on and so forth.

I was simply trying to make the point that asking someone to not use a phrase or word that is hurtful to that person and respecting that request is a simple act of kindness and courtesy. It has nothing to do with being politically correct. It has nothing to do with trying to stifle one 's right to free speech. It has everything to do with respecting the feelings of another human.

[Rockyrd]

Boy, did this thread go on a tangent I never expected. I've read and loved both 1984 and Brave New World. I've thought for a long time that we're closer to 1984 than I care to think about. I don't like the idea of living in a world where every phone conversation I make is recorded or every word I write on a computer is there forever and never truly private. I hate how facts today are altered to prove a mindset rather than letting facts speak for themselves. I hate the biased reporting. I honestly just want the news. If I want an opinion of the news, I can find enough commentators to interpret the news given, but I want ALL of the news, not just the portion that makes that reporter and editor happy. And so on and so forth.

I was simply trying to make the point that asking someone to not use a phrase or word that is hurtful to that person and respecting that request is a simple act of kindness and courtesy. It has nothing to do with being politically correct. It has nothing to do with trying to stifle one 's right to free speech. It has everything to do with respecting the feelings of another human.

I thought your OP was well thought out, presented well, and on target. The 1984 was an add on and it was free....so .....

But, I still think context is important, and frankly your point is well taken......try not to hurt anyone, be aware of who you are speaking with, never lie, relax and it all works out.

Our only disagreement is on the news. I do not think it is possible even to change or alter the news.....it is the news. The presentation will take you to places you may not want to go to, so, for me, READING is the answer, and insure the source is legit on both sides. I just want to be armed with the basic facts.

[redwitch]

Our only disagreement is on the news. I do not think it is possible even to change or alter the news.....it is the news. The presentation will take you to places you may not want to go to, so, for me, READING is the answer, and insure the source is legit on both sides. I just want to be armed with the basic facts.

My issue with news is that sometimes (frequently?) things are left out or are not quite in context. Examples: Trump fired several attorneys shortly after taking office. A common practice done by most Presidents was rarely mentioned. A PO shot an unarmed man. No mention made of the fact that man was high on PCP and beating the police officer. And so on and so forth. Give me all of the facts known. Don't interpret them for me. Don't give me your editorial comments (either verbally, facially or via body language). When I want opinions, I'll look for them but please let me have the facts, just the facts from news if you're claiming to report the news.

[Rockyrd]

My issue with news is that sometimes (frequently?) things are left out or are not quite in context. Examples: Trump fired several attorneys shortly after taking office. A common practice done by most Presidents was rarely mentioned. A PO shot an unarmed man. No mention made of the fact that man was high on PCP and beating the police officer. And so on and so forth. Give me all of the facts known. Don't interpret them for me. Don't give me your editorial comments (either verbally, facially or via body language). When I want opinions, I'll look for them but please let me have the facts, just the facts from news if you're claiming to report the news.

I Agree, but on the firings you missed some facts there.:)...but yes that does happen and that is why...well for example...I read a lot, probably obsessively, and have developed cycles or who to read and when. I pretty much know who is conservative and who is liberal, who wants to make it like the National Enquirer, etc. I actually read one liberal and then one conservative...difference in facts is sometimes no big deal but sometimes it is to me, so will continue and investigate. I admit it makes me sound a bit "off the wall" but politics and government have either been my occupation or avocation for man years and I love it.

By the way, despite what they say "down below" in political, news media does not lie...most they do package it for whatever audience they are searching. So tired of hearing how the media lies...they do not...if they did, they would face terrible consequences. I think our journalists are so very very important in our democracy.

Again, subject changed....did I tell you that your OP was spot on ?

[redwitch]

LOL rocky. You did, thanks.

And I agree, the media doesn't lie, just skews things toward their target audience. I'm one of those who doesn't like that. And, like you, I use several sources. The AP website is pretty neutral, Al Jazeera is good for a lot of international stuff but you have to be careful and make sure you're not reading an opinion piece, Reuters seems to vary by subject, Bloomberg okay, huffPost for the liberal side, BriteBart when I have the urge to barf.

[Taltarzac725]

LOL rocky. You did, thanks.

And I agree, the media doesn't lie, just skews things toward their target audience. I'm one of those who doesn't like that. And, like you, I use several sources. The AP website is pretty neutral, Al Jazeera is good for a lot of international stuff but you have to be careful and make sure you're not reading an opinion piece, Reuters seems to vary by subject, Bloomberg okay, huffPost for the liberal side, BriteBart when I have the urge to barf.

My parents often have FOX on TV or One American News. I usually look at CNN or one of the major networks usually CBS in my bedroom.

If there is a story I really want to see what the facts are though I go to the local news stations wherever that incident happened before the major news services put their spin on the facts by omitting some, highlighting others, etc. So, if there is an incident in Tulsa, OK that makes the national news; I will check the local affiliates of CBS, NBC, ABC, and FOX to see what really happened there in Tulsa. The Tulsa newspapers would be even better if I can get access to them. So many newspapers now seem to require subscriptions on line to few more than a set number of articles.

[Polar Bear]

...So tired of hearing how the media lies...they do not...
I tend to...for the most part...agree. But the bias is often so extreme from sources that are just supposed to report the facts...that it's almost as bad as lying. It's certainly not unbiased news reporting...as journalism should be.

[manaboutown]

The MSM focuses on expressing its biased opinions, frequently failing to report the facts accurately and completely. It twists and distorts the news in order to advance its political agenda. At least in Russia the people realize all they are getting from their media is propaganda.

[xNYer]

The MSM focuses on expressing its biased opinions, frequently failing to report the facts accurately and completely. It twists and distorts the news in order to advance its political agenda. At least in Russia the people realize all they are getting from their media is propaganda.

Is the most watched corporate news station, Fox, the mainstream media? Or is the mainstream media news that you find biased because you do not like what it reports?

[Rockyrd]

Is the most watched corporate news station, Fox, the mainstream media? Or is the mainstream media news that you find biased because you do not like what it reports?

Good point.

I have yet, despite very loud claims, ever to have anyone show me how the MSM neglects to report the news. Fake news as it is called is simply news you do not want to hear.

[EnglishJW]

Since books have found their way into this discussion, I would like to suggest a set of books - no fiction involved: The Story of Civilization by Will & Ariel Durant ( The Story of Civilization (11 Volume Set) by Will Durant — Reviews, Discussion, Bookclubs, Lists (http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/78159.The_Story_of_Civilization)). The detailed descriptions concerning the rise and fall of the world's great civilizations is informative. There are many parallels with our own situation.

[Rockyrd]

This thread has sort of been hijacked !!!

I thought a discussion of Political correctness and news was on target.

[ColdNoMore]

This thread has sort of been hijacked !!!

I thought a discussion of Political correctness and news was on target.

In a lot of ways, this thread is quite analogous...to what's happening in the real world.

As soon as something is shown to be embarrassing or not adhering to ones own beliefs, a diversion and obfuscation...is quickly attempted.

"Oh look...a shiny thing."

[redwitch]

I plead guilty. I hijacked my own thread a couple of times. Actually, my original post really was not about PC but more about people using a dislike of PCness to justify saying something they know hurts another. But it certainly has become an interesting thread! Can't wait to see if it travels in another direction soon. (sorry, really not interested in Gloria, Lisa and the genetics of parent/child all that much.)

[redwitch]

actually, Gracie, slightly incorrect. I started the thread because I was offended at your statement about me taking offense to the phrase drinking the Kool Aid. I'm not offended by that phrase. It hurts! It brings back some very painful memories every time I see and hear it. I'm offended when someone yells at a child in public. I'm offended when someone publicly makes fun of another. I'm hurt when someone reminds me of the death of someone I loved by the simple turn of a phrase. Fortunately, those who personally know me respect that some phrases hurt me and don't use them around me.

I hate that the online news posts pictures and names of people arrested. They've not been tried nor convicted. Yet, they are publicly humiliated. As to the gentleman in New Orleans, the only reason his picture was posted was to make fun of him. That, to me, is inexcusable. he allegedly committed a crime. He was handcuffed and arrested. That should be punishment enough. As you yourself said, had this been a friend or neighbor, it would not have been amusing. Well, he is someone's friend, neighbor, relative. Sorry you don't get that.

[Rockyrd]

What triggered this thread was a picture of a drunk guy with his drawers around his ankles arrested for peeing on a church steps in Texas. He looked sad and embarrassed.

Now I saw an equally worried and embarrassed look on the face of the woman postal worker who was arrested yesterday for feeding a dog on her route a meatball laced with nails.

I do not need to be told by anyone what is the appropriate reaction as long as I do no harm to either of these people. We respond as our life experiences have shaped us. One I thought was laughable and the other made me very angry. Other people might look at both faces differently. We are who we are. Political Correctness is like the rules of a new religion. Most of us agree not to harm another, to try to be compassionate, but sometimes laughter is admissible. Some folks think it is funny to call others a fat twit. What we think is funny probably defines us better than what we say we believe.

I did not ever see the picture you are referencing, and wondering how it got in THIS thread. I simply found the subject of PC to be interesting because so many seem to object strongly to THEIR INTERPETATION OF THAT TERM.

I thought the thread was interesting, even evolving into a discussion of "1984". I never asked the origin, nor cared.

Suddenly, someone has the need to make a strictly, easily spotted political statement, and from what else I can read, now a personal tiff that most knew nothing about, but you sure brought it back up.

Why these threads get diverted when they go in certain directions and diverted off subject is beyond me.

Obviously, many folks are still in election mode and from what I read are going to stay there.

The subject was good, the OP was good, and for the life of me, I do not get the diversion.

[graciegirl]

actually, Gracie, slightly incorrect. I started the thread because I was offended at your statement about me taking offense to the phrase drinking the Kool Aid. I'm not offended by that phrase. It hurts! It brings back some very painful memories every time I see and hear it. I'm offended when someone yells at a child in public. I'm offended when someone publicly makes fun of another. I'm hurt when someone reminds me of the death of someone I loved by the simple turn of a phrase. Fortunately, those who personally know me respect that some phrases hurt me and don't use them around me.

I hate that the online news posts pictures and names of people arrested. They've not been tried nor convicted. Yet, they are publicly humiliated. As to the gentleman in New Orleans, the only reason his picture was posted was to make fun of him. That, to me, is inexcusable. he allegedly committed a crime. He was handcuffed and arrested. That should be punishment enough. As you yourself said, had this been a friend or neighbor, it would not have been amusing. Well, he is someone's friend, neighbor, relative. Sorry you don't get that

.


I get it. Police aren't there to understand, they are there to uphold the law even if bleeding hearts are saddened. Without laws and people to uphold them we would have a mess. Sorry. We already have a mess.

I yelled at my children in public a time or two. So far they haven't been arrested, have decent jobs, pay their bills on time and are mannerly and nice. In Helene's case she is retired from a long career at McDonalds.

[Rockyrd]

I get it. Police aren't there to understand, they are there to uphold the law even if bleeding hearts are saddened. Without laws and people to uphold them we would have a mess. Sorry. We already have a mess.

I yelled at my children in public a time or two. So far they haven't been arrested, have decent jobs, pay their bills on time and are mannerly and nice. In Helene's case she is retired from a long career at McDonalds.

While your complete lack of empathy is noted, I am wondering what your comments regarding your children have to do with a thread begun to discuss PC ?

Sometimes, threads and conversations can actually be held without political lectures, without judgements, simply an expression of feelings. You obviously are more interested in PC THAN MOST.

An expression of sympathy for some victims is not a condemnation of police; it is simply an expression of sympathy and nothing more.

Making it Political always, and judging based on YOUR life is not only not fair, it is terribly shortsighted and mean.

You are an individual and should be judged like that, not based on me or my family. You should be able to feel sorry, even as you mete out justice.

[ColdNoMore]

I did not ever see the picture you are referencing, and wondering how it got in THIS thread. I simply found the subject of PC to be interesting because so many seem to object strongly to THEIR INTERPETATION OF THAT TERM.

I thought the thread was interesting, even evolving into a discussion of "1984". I never asked the origin, nor cared.

Suddenly, someone has the need to make a strictly, easily spotted political statement, and from what else I can read, now a personal tiff that most knew nothing about, but you sure brought it back up.

Why these threads get diverted when they go in certain directions and diverted off subject is beyond me.

Obviously, many folks are still in election mode and from what I read are going to stay there.

The subject was good, the OP was good, and for the life of me, I do not get the diversion.

It was started by the OP for a very laudable and admirable goal.

It turned political in Post #11 and the usual suspects...took it and ran from there. :ohdear:

[ColdNoMore]

While your complete lack of empathy is noted, I am wondering what your comments regarding your children have to do with a thread begun to discuss PC ?

Sometimes, threads and conversations can actually be held without political lectures, without judgements, simply an expression of feelings. You obviously are more interested in PC THAN MOST.

An expression of sympathy for some victims is not a condemnation of police; it is simply an expression of sympathy and nothing more.

Making it Political always, and judging based on YOUR life is not only not fair, it is terribly shortsighted and mean.

You are an individual and should be judged like that, not based on me or my family. You should be able to feel sorry, even as you mete out justice.

Very well stated. :BigApplause:

[dillywho]

I have always respected and loved RedWitch. That being said, I do have to disagree in some respects of her post.

Everyone here does not know everyone else, personally, and some may inadvertently say something (such as the Kool-Aid remark) that they will find hurtful or offensive. Hurtful words are not always intended to hurt. The Kool-Aid remark is simply defined to those who used it as "following blindly without reason or consequences, just acceptance without question". I would never INTENTIONALLY say something to hurt another. It hurts me when someone starts a comment with "Jesus Christ", but I just simply ask them to please not do it. Decent people will honor a civil request. Those who won't........well.

I grew up in Texas and could easily take offense at the term "redneck", but I don't. What is perfectly normal in one part of the country is often not in another. We refer to anyone north of the Mason-Dixon line as Yankees and the fact that they don't always see things like we do. That doesn't make them bad or good. I was once married to a "Yankee". He always just laughed and said the he was from "Southern Connecticut" because he had been in Texas for so long. People in Oklahoma are called Okies. People who attend Texas A&M are called Aggies. Amarillo has a school whose sports teams are the Rebels, with the majority of the athletes black, and they are not offended.

I can remember when the "n" word was common and NOT derogatory. It was simply descriptive of color. I remember MLK talking about the Negroes, because the term African-American had not yet been coined. Now Negro is no longer considered "PC" and is "offensive". I remember the days of segregation and didn't agree with it then and don't now. I don't agree with anyone segregating based on race be it white, black, brown, red, or any other.

I am part Indian but am not "offended" by Redskin, either. I don't care about your sexual orientation; only how you treat me as another human being. I'm still waiting to see how the PC world is going to handle the birth of babies, human or otherwise, regarding the designation of male or female at the time of birth.

I still say Merry Christmas and am comfortable doing so. I am not offended if someone wishes me a Happy Hanukkah or whatever they celebrate.

I just would like to see a return to the days when we were not expected to walk on eggshells for fear of "offending or the possibility of hurting someone".

Maybe I'm just "redneck" enough not to know I'm supposed to take offense at being white, female, heterosexual, and believe in God.

[Rockyrd]

I have always respected and loved RedWitch. That being said, I do have to disagree in some respects of her post.

Everyone here does not know everyone else, personally, and some may inadvertently say something (such as the Kool-Aid remark) that they will find hurtful or offensive. Hurtful words are not always intended to hurt. The Kool-Aid remark is simply defined to those who used it as "following blindly without reason or consequences, just acceptance without question". I would never INTENTIONALLY say something to hurt another. It hurts me when someone starts a comment with "Jesus Christ", but I just simply ask them to please not do it. Decent people will honor a civil request. Those who won't........well.

I grew up in Texas and could easily take offense at the term "redneck", but I don't. What is perfectly normal in one part of the country is often not in another. We refer to anyone north of the Mason-Dixon line as Yankees and the fact that they don't always see things like we do. That doesn't make them bad or good. I was once married to a "Yankee". He always just laughed and said the he was from "Southern Connecticut" because he had been in Texas for so long. People in Oklahoma are called Okies. People who attend Texas A&M are called Aggies. Amarillo has a school whose sports teams are the Rebels, with the majority of the athletes black, and they are not offended.

I can remember when the "n" word was common and NOT derogatory. It was simply descriptive of color. I remember MLK talking about the Negroes, because the term African-American had not yet been coined. Now Negro is no longer considered "PC" and is "offensive". I remember the days of segregation and didn't agree with it then and don't now. I don't agree with anyone segregating based on race be it white, black, brown, red, or any other.

I am part Indian but am not "offended" by Redskin, either. I don't care about your sexual orientation; only how you treat me as another human being. I'm still waiting to see how the PC world is going to handle the birth of babies, human or otherwise, regarding the designation of male or female at the time of birth.

I still say Merry Christmas and am comfortable doing so. I am not offended if someone wishes me a Happy Hanukkah or whatever they celebrate.

I just would like to see a return to the days when we were not expected to walk on eggshells for fear of "offending or the possibility of hurting someone".

Maybe I'm just "redneck" enough not to know I'm supposed to take offense at being white, female, heterosexual, and believe in God.

I must be lucky or stupid.

I never ever have felt the need to be PC. I think that is a "political" condition and people tell you that.

I grew up in the 40s and 50s when younsay the N word was acceptable...well, I never used it. I grew up around blacks, Spanish and a host of races and religions. I coached basketball and had every race play for me. I never needed to have anyone tell me what was PC. I never had to even think about it frankly, but I tended to shut out labels, and still do. Make no mistake..PC is another label.

Unless we allow others to tell us we shouldn't say or not say, we are innately good people. Time has not changed anything, we just have a sped up communications and nothing is different. Those who tell you there is a PC problem want us to have a PC problem. Most of our problems are NOT racial, NOT religious and we simply refuse to engage with each other to solve the issues.

[Rapscallion St Croix]

PC is really just a bunch of non-feminine bovine ejected digestive by-product.

[Carl in Tampa]

Is the most watched corporate news station, Fox, the mainstream media? Or is the mainstream media news that you find biased because you do not like what it reports?

The Main Stream Media (MSM) are those TV networks with the highest number of viewers (ABC, CBS, NBC) and those newspapers with the greatest readership (Washington Post rather than Washington Times; New York Times rather than New York Post, etc.)

Note that these are the broadcast TV networks (although they can be seen on cable) in contrast to the Cable networks. Regardless what Fox News Channel (cable) says about it's viewership compared to CNN, MSNBC, and other cable channels, Fox's viewership is minuscule compared to the viewership of the major broadcast networks.

It is generally thought that the MSM reporting tends to be Liberal, while Fox News Channel is the flagship of Conservative reporting. That may be changing, with the departure of Bill O'Reilly, and the frequent acerbic Liberal remarks of Shepherd Smith. There are hints that Sean Hannity may not be at Fox much longer. A new Conservative news cable channel may be coming soon.

[Allegiance]

Lucky or stupid.

There is another choice.


Mark Fuhrman's racist tapes show witness in OJ Simpson case saying N-word 41 TIMES | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3514002/Mark-Fuhrman-s-racist-tapes-transcript-key-witness-OJ-Simpson-case-saying-N-word-41-TIMES-detailing-incidents-racially-motivated-violence-involving-members-LAPD.html)

[Carl in Tampa]

Since books have found their way into this discussion, I would like to suggest a set of books - no fiction involved: The Story of Civilization by Will & Ariel Durant ( The Story of Civilization (11 Volume Set) by Will Durant — Reviews, Discussion, Bookclubs, Lists (http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/78159.The_Story_of_Civilization)). The detailed descriptions concerning the rise and fall of the world's great civilizations is informative. There are many parallels with our own situation.

I sampled some readings in The Story of Civilization, and in Gibbons' Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, as well. I never could get very involved in the narrative.

Perhaps I was too immature and inexperienced at the time to appreciate what I was reading.

(Click on cartoon for larger image.)

[Carl in Tampa]

This thread has sort of been hijacked !!!

I thought a discussion of Political correctness and news was on target.

Once created, threads take on a life of their own, and often veer off on all sorts of side paths. If the Moderator feels a thread has gotten seriously off point, a course correction is directed.

And, of course, on occasion the Moderator will remove a post when the post is objectionable due to abusive language or perhaps when the posting seems irrational.

chilout

[LuckySevens]

I love this line from Dillywho...........
Maybe I'm just "redneck" enough not to know I'm supposed to take offense at being white, female, heterosexual, and believe in God.

[Carl in Tampa]

Maybe I'm just "redneck" enough not to know I'm supposed to take offense at being white, female, heterosexual, and believe in God.

Strange........ I grew up in Texas, and even had one grandfather who was a sharecropper farmer, but I never heard the term "redneck" until we moved to Florida, where I heard it used to describe some Floridians and Georgians. Even then, "Cracker" was used just as often to refer to Floridians.

I grew up in Dallas and San Antonio. I guess being in large urban areas makes a difference in what you hear. (I did have a couple of uncles who were Aggies.)

[Rockyrd]

The Main Stream Media (MSM) are those TV networks with the highest number of viewers (ABC, CBS, NBC) and those newspapers with the greatest readership (Washington Post rather than Washington Times; New York Times rather than New York Post, etc.)

Note that these are the broadcast TV networks (although they can be seen on cable) in contrast to the Cable networks. Regardless what Fox News Channel (cable) says about it's viewership compared to CNN, MSNBC, and other cable channels, Fox's viewership is minuscule compared to the viewership of the major broadcast networks.

It is generally thought that the MSM reporting tends to be Liberal, while Fox News Channel is the flagship of Conservative reporting. That may be changing, with the departure of Bill O'Reilly, and the frequent acerbic Liberal remarks of Shepherd Smith. There are hints that Sean Hannity may not be at Fox much longer. A new Conservative news cable channel may be coming soon.

Good post.

Bottom line, regardless of what some think and say, the MSM does not alter news, does not hide news. I am getting so tired of the FAKE news stuff. There is such a thing but it is NOT on the MSM, but on various websites that, and say what you want, used by Russia. ZeroHedge, RT...just examples,..totally Russian controlled who try to have Americans pick up their various conspiracy theories.

I believe our media is VITAL to our democracy and country, and attacks on the media just weaken our country. They are the people who keep our leaders in control.

As to bias, it has always existed. Fox was born because Murdoch and Aisles saw a niche in the market and filled it. They proclaimed the MSM to be liberal, and presented an alternative. They may have been right, or just perhaps good business heads. Whatever, over the years, the divide has widened and as you mention, there is now divides within Fox.

I still can watch ANY of them and get news, but they are now allowing commentary to be intertwined and it is folks looking for their own justification who are viewers.

What people need to understand is...these are huge business structures, and are in competition for viewers. They will present COMMENTARY to attract viewers, but they do not alter news, and those who believe the MSM is the enemy, are in my strong opinion, doing themselves a terrible disservice. Without our media, those in power truely have carte Blanche to do and say what they want, true or not.

A point I need to make.....and I am sure I will either get heat or bad thoughts, but TWITTER is NOT news...it is one of the worst things that has happened to news in my opinion. I do not tweet but follow all the major news outlets, but read only those with direct links to a REAL FACTUAL WELL CREDITED NEWS SOURCE.

[Rapscallion St Croix]

News is what Walter Cronkite gave us. What we get now is analysis and opinion most of which is biased either right or left.

[Rockyrd]

News is what Walter Cronkite gave us. What we get now is analysis and opinion most of which is biased either right or left.

Turn off your tv if you want news, especially and frankly without bias CABLE news.. They compete for viewership. If you honestly and really want NEWS, so many great outlets..AP, REUTERS, etc, without the gab.

If you want someone to give you WHAT YOU WANT TO HEAR, pick your poison on cable, but do not call that the MSM or fake news. It is as much entertainment as anything.

[ColdNoMore]

Good post.

Bottom line, regardless of what some think and say, the MSM does not alter news, does not hide news. I am getting so tired of the FAKE news stuff. There is such a thing but it is NOT on the MSM, but on various websites that, and say what you want, used by Russia. ZeroHedge, RT...just examples,..totally Russian controlled who try to have Americans pick up their various conspiracy theories.

I believe our media is VITAL to our democracy and country, and attacks on the media just weaken our country. They are the people who keep our leaders in control.

As to bias, it has always existed. Fox was born because Murdoch and Aisles saw a niche in the market and filled it. They proclaimed the MSM to be liberal, and presented an alternative. They may have been right, or just perhaps good business heads. Whatever, over the years, the divide has widened and as you mention, there is now divides within Fox.

I still can watch ANY of them and get news, but they are now allowing commentary to be intertwined and it is folks looking for their own justification who are viewers.

What people need to understand is...these are huge business structures, and are in competition for viewers. They will present COMMENTARY to attract viewers, but they do not alter news, and those who believe the MSM is the enemy, are in my strong opinion, doing themselves a terrible disservice. Without our media, those in power truely have carte Blanche to do and say what they want, true or not.

A point I need to make.....and I am sure I will either get heat or bad thoughts, but TWITTER is NOT news...it is one of the worst things that has happened to news in my opinion. I do not tweet but follow all the major news outlets, but read only those with direct links to a REAL FACTUAL WELL CREDITED NEWS SOURCE.

You make an excellent point on the fact that the news itself, from established/legitimate sources...are seldom to never actually false.

Whereas Tweets, are ALMOST ALWAYS simply an opinion whereby the tweeter can make a statement...and not have to stand up in front of others and justify and prove their statement(s).

Now which one, would/should reasonable people...actually take more seriously?

[Moderator]

The topic of this thread is political correct speech. The thread has veered completely off topic. It is now closed. You are invited to start a new thread on news media if desired. But this thread is now closed.

Moderator