Golf Courses Not Friendly to Junior Golfers

[revbush]

Last Friday I took my 14 yo Granddaughter (she's 5' 10", played competition sports for 6 years , loves golf) and her Dad with me to golf one of the Level 1 courses. Made a really early tee time. There was a foursome ready to tee off after us, so we had them tee off before us. No one was behind us. My GD is going to play high school golf this year. By the time we were on the third fairway the people in front of us were two holes ahead. Still no one behind. Also by that time the course ambassador had visited us twice telling us to speed up. When he visited us at the 4th tee (still no one behind) my Granddaughter became so anxious she was literally sick. We left the course and took her back to our house. She understands pace of play and it would have been an issue had we held someone up. We didn't. After paying $11 to play and $4 to ride (twice) AND obeyed all of the Rules of Golf, I wonder about America's Friendliest Home Town. I love TV, but I'm not sure about the title.

[golfing eagles]

Last Friday I took my 14 yo Granddaughter (she's 5' 10", played competition sports for 6 years , loves golf) and her Dad with me to golf one of the Level 1 courses. Made a really early tee time. There was a foursome ready to tee off after us, so we had them tee off before us. No one was behind us. My GD is going to play high school golf this year. By the time we were on the third fairway the people in front of us were two holes ahead. Still no one behind. Also by that time the course ambassador had visited us twice telling us to speed up. When he visited us at the 4th tee (still no one behind) my Granddaughter became so anxious she was literally sick. We left the course and took her back to our house. She understands pace of play and it would have been an issue had we held someone up. We didn't. After paying $11 to play and $4 to ride (twice) AND obeyed all of the Rules of Golf, I wonder about America's Friendliest Home Town. I love TV, but I'm not sure about the title.

Play here often???

The ambassadors go by the times printed on the scorecard, he would have told you the same thing if it was a foursome of 60 somethings. It has nothing to with anybody behind you. Just what do you consider "unfriendly" about enforcing the rules?

[dewilson58]

Not enough info..........what was your speed of play?? What was the group ahead of you speed of play??

[Rapscallion St Croix]

To fall two holes behind a foursome smacks of taking mulligans, conducting on-course lessons, playing wrong tees, and not picking up the ball when excessive strokes have been played.

[DonH57]

As long as your pace of play was within the norm nothing should have been said. The only time my four was accused of slow play was at Hawk's bay. A single was sent ahead of us which we asked for. We were told at the 2nd hole we were playing to slow and we should be on the singles heels. This happened two other times in 3 weeks. Found out the following week he was no longer working there. I have noticed there is no communication between ambassadors and the starter shacks unless the ambassadors stop by.

[alwann]

I don't understand from the OP's post whether his foursome was off pace or simply two holes behind because the group in front was playing ahead of pace. Most ambassadors are pleasant people. But some ambassadors lack common sense. I recall being grilled by an ambassador because two holes were open in front of us when, in fact, it was that way when we teed off.

Anyone who feels an ambassador treated them rudely or was inconsiderate should let the course head pro know.

[fred53]

1)the times are on the score card showing how far along you should be. 2)your GD needs to toughen up if she so easily upset by an ambassador and you should have checked to see if the ambassador was correct. If the ambassador was correct then you needed to pick up the pace(and it matters not whether or not anyone is ahead or behind...rules are rules. As an athlete(by your admission)your GD should know this. If you were not behind the posted time on the score card you should have pointed it out to the ambassador...

[golf2140]

A threesome behind after a couple of holes tells me that you were playing way to slow.

[tagjr1]

The "ambassador" was completely out of line for pressuring this family to speed up their play when in fact they were not holding anyone up who were following them. "Rules are rules" argument is bull!

[Rapscallion St Croix]

The "ambassador" was completely out of line for pressuring this family to speed up their play when in fact they were not holding anyone up who were following them. "Rules are rules" argument is bull!

Right. Let's teach the 14 year old girl to feel entitled that the biggest problem in golf doesn't apply to her.

[ajbrown]

Unless something has changed executive courses do not have pace of play per hole.

The most shocking thing I saw was that an ambassador on an execute course actually said something :evil6:

[Rapscallion St Croix]

Unless something has changed executive courses do not have pace of play per hole.

The most shocking thing I saw was that an ambassador on an execute course actually said something :evil6:

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[tagjr1]

The biggest problem in golf at this community is old "fuddy duddies" living here who seem to want everything their way!

[Jayhawk]

The pace of play “time par” is listed on each scorecard.

:thumbup:

[Rapscallion St Croix]

The biggest problem in golf at this community is old "fuddy duddies" living here who seem to want everything their way!

I am old, but consider myself more of a curmudgeon than a fuddy duddy. Fuddy duddies are lightweights.

[BogeyBoy]

The OP stated that they let the foursome behind them tee off first. The ambassador probably was looking at the tee time for them teeing off at the scheduled time.

[tagjr1]

So much for "Americas Freindliest Hometown".

[ajbrown]

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Understood. I was just pointing out that unlike the championship courses there is no time par per hole on the executives. They only have time par for the whole 9.

There is no way to look at your pace after three holes and know if you are 'on time'. Always have thought that would be helpful.

[jim1941]

Maybe the group in front of them was playing a shamble or scramble.

[John_W]

You're saying a threesome fell two holes behind a foursome by the third hole on an executive course. First, I would of kept that information to myself. Second the ambassador was probably concerned whether you were going to finish today. Was this your group?

https://uproxx.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/caddyshack1.jpg?quality=100

[bagboy]

To the OP, If you feel that you were not treated respectfully or fairly on one of our execs, you should call the golf office (352-753-3396) and discuss what happened. They can tell you A) the ambassador was correct in his action B) the ambassador has discretion to act as he/she sees fit, or C) the ambassador was incorrect in his approach. At least you will know what's expected in this situation. And if the ambassador was off in his judgement, management can point this out and aid in him being better in the future.
I have several decades of recreation management experience including golf course management (inside and outside), and my opinion means nothing. What matters is the rules/regs established by VCDD golf management, and how the staff is trained to implement them.

[retiredguy123]

If you're looking for sympathy, you won't get it from me. I really don't know what age has to do with this situation. If you're told to play faster, then play faster. Slow play is a real problem, and I'm glad that it was enforced.

[MrGolf]

The pace of play on our courses is rediculus. I am happy to hear the Ambassador said something other than do you need water. I agree w the earlier poster who said it doesn't matter if you 10 or 60. You need to keep up with the group ahead. The group behind is not your issue.

[Bogie Shooter]

So much for "Americas Freindliest Hometown".

How can you say that over the actions of one ambassador?

[golfing eagles]

How can you say that over the actions of one ambassador?

entitlement?
rules are for everyone else?
grievance industry?
I paid my $11 so I can do what I want?
I don't need big brother watching me?

Pick one

[Rapscallion St Croix]

How can you say that over the actions of one ambassador?

It is the go-to, albeit time worn, cliché for Villages misanthropes, especially Morse/Tutt haters.

[villagerjack]

Retreating to your "Safe Space" is no way to learn anything.

[thelegges]

have seen the ambassador ask people to pick up the pace more than once. Age of those playing does not matter. However if your granddaughter is planning on playing golf at a school level, and the ambassador asking them to speed it up made her sick, than competition golf will be even more difficult. the pressure from playing with peers can be down right brutal. Since you are playing mostly par 3s should be a piece of cake for one ready to compete. However if you were teaching and that was the reason for slow play, you still should keep up pace even if no one is behind you. Our grands are taught to pick up if you have not hit the green in 3.

[jeriteri]

REALLY! No one behind them. Grandfather out with his granddaughter probably teaching her a thing or two about golf is bullied by an ambassador whose life depends on having control over people because he has nothing else. Where's the compassion for that family. That's the problem in today's world, people have no compassion for anything that represents love, family or respecting others. Why disrupt a family from having a great experience and memory when what they were doing wasn't holding up anyone or disrupting play. If there is a rule on that circumstance then they need to take another look at it and instruct their Ambassadors forthwith.

[SCasey]

When our grandchildren were here, the four of us played one afternoon. After watching three of the foursome in front of us play mulligans (while we were waiting to tee off), the ambassador came up to US and told us to keep the play going. I politely asked him why he did not mention that to the foursome in front of us and he drove off without answer.

[graciegirl]

REALLY! No one behind them. Grandfather out with his granddaughter probably teaching her a thing or two about golf is bullied by an ambassador whose life depends on having control over people because he has nothing else. Where's the compassion for that family. That's the problem in today's world, people have no compassion for anything that represents love, family or respecting others. Why disrupt a family from having a great experience and memory when what they were doing wasn't holding up anyone or disrupting play. If there is a rule on that circumstance then they need to take another look at it and instruct their Ambassadors forthwith.

Jeri, I absolutely think you are a fair, kind and smart person and there are many points you have made in this post to prove it.

HOWEVER, it is very rare here on these golf courses, especially nine hole golf courses for an Ambassador to ask someone to keep the pace. The Ambassadors generally offer water, good wishes, and smiles. In nine years we haven't run into an Ambassador with any kind of power problems, actually the opposite is probably what people complain about, their reluctance to point out slow play.

We have walked with many new golfers over time, young ones and old ones and have always explained that the pace of play was very important. We too told them to pick up their ball and start on the next hole after several shots above par.

I understand this grandfather's love for his young one, but I think he missed an opportunity to counsel fortitude and calmness. Being aggravated on a golf course is part of the challenge of the sport, as the aggravation usually comes from your own self.

[ColdNoMore]

To the OP, if your granddaughter has played golf for a while and is going to play on her HS golf team...it seems to me that she knows what she's doing and may not have been the problem.

Not really enough info here, but I'm wondering if it was you or her father...that contributed to falling so far behind? :shrug:

Regardless, pace of play is something that needs to be enforced more often at our courses... IMHO.

I always try to keep in mind a saying that my first golf mentors drilled into me.

'Your place on the course is right behind the group in front of you...not just ahead of the group behind you."

[Villageswimmer]

REALLY! No one behind them. Grandfather out with his granddaughter probably teaching her a thing or two about golf is bullied by an ambassador whose life depends on having control over people because he has nothing else. Where's the compassion for that family. That's the problem in today's world, people have no compassion for anything that represents love, family or respecting others. Why disrupt a family from having a great experience and memory when what they were doing wasn't holding up anyone or disrupting play. If there is a rule on that circumstance then they need to take another look at it and instruct their Ambassadors forthwith.


Why are some so quick to allege "bullying." Very overused. I've never encountered an ambassador who is a bully. I think his reminder was likely a good experience for a person, any person of any age, who wishes to pursue golf. Becoming physically ill is a bit dramatic unless we're missing something from the story. Namaste.

[rjn5656]

My grandson has been playing golf since he was 7 with me in the villages. Ambassadors did watch him but were always very encouraging once they saw him play. People who paired up with us with always great. In 5 years, never had an issue.

[Villageswimmer]

Another thought: maybe the young lady was embarrassed because the other 2 in the threesome were playing so slow. She may have known better. I think we've all been there.

[stan the man]

I really think you should have a talk with your granddaughter. If she gets such an anxiety after being told to move up the pace of play that she got sick and had to go home.. My personal opinion is she should not Play competitive sports. I think it will be too much strain on her. Maybe take up jigsaw puzzle and or something less competitive.. Some children get pushed into positions that they really don't want to be in..

[ColdNoMore]

Another thought: maybe the young lady was embarrassed because the other 2 in the threesome were playing so slow. She may have known better. I think we've all been there.

:agree:

That's kinda where I was leading in my post.

We need more info though...to figure out the real cause of the warning. :shrug:

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

To fall two holes behind a foursome smacks of taking mulligans, conducting on-course lessons, playing wrong tees, and not picking up the ball when excessive strokes have been played.

Not necessarily. Some people play extraordinarily fast. I had a group at a club I worked at that constantly complained about the group behind them being slow. It was easy to determine that they complaining group played nine holes in an hour and fifteen minutes. I had to tell them numerous times that they simply can't expect everyone to play at that pace. On a regulation golf course, 2 hours was the norm and on a busy day 2:15 was acceptable. On the executives, 90 minutes should be expected but I play nine in 45 minutes on an empty golf course. It's completely unreasonable for me to expect everyone to play like that.

What I'm really surprised at here is that the ambassador said anything at all. I've been held up by groups on many occasions and the ambassadors do nothing at all. One of them told me that they are instructed to not "bother" people who are playing golf.

In any case, if there was no one behind you, the ambassador was out of line.

I am constantly astounded by the incompetence of the people that work our golf courses. I don't know if it's how they are trained or that some just don't have any common sense. Some people believe that a rule is a rule and circumstances don't matter. Sometimes common sense needs to take over.

[PennBF]

The Ambassador was absolutely right. We always told our Rangers to remind the players they were responsible to stay up with the group ahead of them and not to try to stay ahead of the group behind them. :gc:

[biker1]

One size doesn't fit all. About a year ago, the Starter asked us to wait a bit before teeing off to let the play spread out a bit on the course. By the time we were told to tee off, there were 2 open holes in front of us. A couple of holes later an Ambassador politely asked us to speed up as there were 2 open holes in front of us.

The Ambassador was absolutely right. We always told our Rangers to remind the players they were responsible to stay up with the group ahead of them and not to try to stay ahead of the group behind them. :gc:

[tagjr1]

How can you say that over the actions of one ambassador?

I didn't! I was referring to some of the old dogs on this site who are over protective of "their territory".

[Dwyane Johnson]

The best solution to any unpleasant experience on a golf course is to seek out the Facility Manager responsible for that course. He needs to know the experience so that he can find out why and take the appropriate action with his team. He is responsible the the employees. If he doesn't know, he can't fix it. I had an experience that was not pleasant and I spoke with the facility manager, he was very professional and handled the situation to my satisfaction. At least I felt like I had a voice other than posting to a forum.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Unless something has changed executive courses do not have pace of play per hole.

The most shocking thing I saw was that an ambassador on an execute course actually said something :evil6:

At the bottom of the scorecard, there is a note stating that the pace of play for 9 holes is 90 minutes. That equates to 10 minutes per hole. If there are par fours on the course that needs to be adjusted. But since they run on 9 minute starting times, it's obviously expected that each group will play the first hole in 9 minutes. So 9X9 is 81 minutes. So they're giving to nine extra minutes for a lost ball or difficulty on one or two holes.

I agree about the ambassador. They basically are there to provide water and sand. They do almost nothing else.

This sounds like one guy who is a bit full of himself.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

The Ambassador was absolutely right. We always told our Rangers to remind the players they were responsible to stay up with the group ahead of them and not to try to stay ahead of the group behind them. :gc:

That's has always been a good general rule, but what if the group in front of you is playing at a ridiculously fast pace. If you're playing an exec course in an hour and twenty minutes, you are well within the accepted time frame. However, if the group in front of you is playing in 45 minutes, it's unreasonable for anyone to expect you to keep up.

As I said, sometimes there is a need for common sense and discretion. Although, I've often found that common sense is not so common.

[graciegirl]

At the bottom of the scorecard, there is a note stating that the pace of play for 9 holes is 90 minutes. That equates to 10 minutes per hole. If there are par fours on the course that needs to be adjusted. But since they run on 9 minute starting times, it's obviously expected that each group will play the first hole in 9 minutes. So 9X9 is 81 minutes. So they're giving to nine extra minutes for a lost ball or difficulty on one or two holes.

I agree about the ambassador. They basically are there to provide water and sand. They do almost nothing else.

This sounds like one guy who is a bit full of himself.

I don't think this issue was with the Ambassador. I think this issue was with the grandfather. I LOVE being a woman. We KNOW stuff.

[golfing eagles]

REALLY! No one behind them. Grandfather out with his granddaughter probably teaching her a thing or two about golf is bullied by an ambassador whose life depends on having control over people because he has nothing else. Where's the compassion for that family. That's the problem in today's world, people have no compassion for anything that represents love, family or respecting others. Why disrupt a family from having a great experience and memory when what they were doing wasn't holding up anyone or disrupting play. If there is a rule on that circumstance then they need to take another look at it and instruct their Ambassadors forthwith.

Seriously????? "Compassion"????

If they want compassion, join the slow golfers support group. If they want to play golf, keep up with the pace of play.

I played both high school and college golf, and believe me, the granddaughter is NOT going to find any "compassion" out there.

[MrGolf]

That's what I like about you GE. You tell it like it is. Straight and to the point with just that right touch of comic relief.

[buzzy]

The title of the thread suggests that the group was targeted by the ambassador for criticism because of a junior in the group. Even if the ambassador was too outspoken, it seems that the grandfather misread the situation when his granddaughter got so upset.

[Villageswimmer]

The best solution to any unpleasant experience on a golf course is to seek out the Facility Manager responsible for that course. He needs to know the experience so that he can find out why and take the appropriate action with his team. He is responsible the the employees. If he doesn't know, he can't fix it. I had an experience that was not pleasant and I spoke with the facility manager, he was very professional and handled the situation to my satisfaction. At least I felt like I had a voice other than posting to a forum.


I'd proceed cautiously. Was the Ambassador abusive? Did he use profanity or was he otherwise disrespectful? Does asking a group to speed up play rise to the level of his possibly losing his job?

No follow up from OP. Could be grandpa needs to look in the mirror? Children that age are easily embarrassed by adults' behavior. In this case, I think the adult may have been grandpa. Just sayin'

[Bonny]

I always am a little skeptical when someone's first post is complaining about something in the Villages and then they never come back on. I think pot stirrers like to say something that will get everyone all worked up and then sit back, read all the posts and laugh. :ohdear:

[bilcon]

Let's encourage breaking Rules of Golf and simple etiquette on the courses because no one is watching. That's how "The Entitled" generation was created wasn't it. (I can do anything I want, when I want to)

[dewilson58]

I always am a little skeptical when someone's first post is complaining about something in the Villages and then they never come back on. I think pot stirrers like to say something that will get everyone all worked up and then sit back, read all the posts and laugh. :ohdear:

:BigApplause:

[drcar]

The best solution to any unpleasant experience on a golf course is to seek out the Facility Manager responsible for that course. He needs to know the experience so that he can find out why and take the appropriate action with his team. He is responsible the the employees. If he doesn't know, he can't fix it. I had an experience that was not pleasant and I spoke with the facility manager, he was very professional and handled the situation to my satisfaction. At least I felt like I had a voice other than posting to a forum.

Excellent post, the management should have been called if the experience was indeed handled poorly. Problems can not be addressed if they are not reported. To many people go to this forum before trying to fix the problem. The story get twisted on here and can spin out of control.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

To the OP, if your granddaughter has played golf for a while and is going to play on her HS golf team...it seems to me that she knows what she's doing and may not have been the problem.

Not really enough info here, but I'm wondering if it was you or her father...that contributed to falling so far behind? :shrug:

Regardless, pace of play is something that needs to be enforced more often at our courses... IMHO.

I always try to keep in mind a saying that my first golf mentors drilled into me.

'Your place on the course is right behind the group in front of you...not just ahead of the group behind you."

I'll say it again. That's a great general premise, but what if the group in front of you is playing at supersonic speed?

It's not that simple. If an ambassador sees that a group is holding up play, they should say something. They also should look at the time the group started and see where they are on the golf course. It's pretty easy to compute nine minutes per hole, giving and extra four minutes for a par four. If the group is on pace and the group in front of them is way out in front, the group in front is playing faster than normal.

If there is no one behind them, why is there a need to say anything?

The same thing would apply if the group was on pace and the group behind them was playing faster than the normal accepted pace. In that case, the if there is no one in front, the faster group should be invited to play through.

[DeanFL]

Wow. If I EVER get arrested for something around here and it goes to jury trial.... I would pray that the jury pool be 12 ToTVrs. I mean it would be a hung jury EVERY time. Can always count on widely differing opinions, and verdicts, here on so many Threads.

Not saying anyone is in the wrong - simply opinions vary by huge degrees. A to Z.

Kinda fun reading all this - and at the same time kinda scary.

But, almost wants me to commit a crime...

[graciegirl]

Wow. If I EVER get arrested for something around here and it goes to jury trial.... I would pray that the jury pool be 12 ToTVrs. I mean it would be a hung jury EVERY time. Can always count on widely differing opinions, and verdicts, here on so many Threads.

Not saying anyone is in the wrong - simply opinions vary by huge degrees. A to Z.

Kinda fun reading all this - and at the same time kinda scary.

But, almost wants me to commit a crime...

Not as many people who are just......moderate any more, it is one extreme or the other. I don't think that is good.

[DonH57]

I'll say it again. That's a great general premise, but what if the group in front of you is playing at supersonic speed?

It's not that simple. If an ambassador sees that a group is holding up play, they should say something. They also should look at the time the group started and see where they are on the golf course. It's pretty easy to compute nine minutes per hole, giving and extra four minutes for a par four. If the group is on pace and the group in front of them is way out in front, the group in front is playing faster than normal.

If there is no one behind them, why is there a need to say anything?

The same thing would apply if the group was on pace and the group behind them was playing faster than the normal accepted pace. In that case, the if there is no one in front, the faster group should be invited to play through.

I agree. Only concern yourself to keep pace with the group in front of you. Never focus on the four some behind you worrying about getting to the 19th hole for the start of happy hour! Some things are blown far out of proportion.