Tired of bad greens

[bbrizendine]

Having slow and bumpy greens on our Country Club courses has become the norm here. It is apparent that the superintendent is not concerned. It could be more than likely that many people don't know the difference and don't mind it. I played Evans Prairie and Bonifay this week with some guests I have and it was embarrassing. The greens were something like you would find at a muni with no budget. I know we have been in a drought and that has hampered green care but so has everyone else in middle Florida. Visited Disney with my quest as well and the greens were perfect. The fact is that our greens are not cared for in the same professional manner. Our greens need to be verticut and groomed regularly and they are not. Both of these pieces of equipment attach to the greens mowers quickly and are used regularly at well maintained golf courses. Just asking, Is anybody else tired of poor maintenance here ?

[Gordon82]

Having slow and bumpy greens on our Country Club courses has become the norm here. It is apparent that the superintendent is not concerned. It could be more than likely that many people don't know the difference and don't mind it. I played Evans Prairie and Bonifay this week with some guests I have and it was embarrassing. The greens were something like you would find at a muni with no budget. I know we have been in a drought and that has hampered green care but so has everyone else in middle Florida. Visited Disney with my quest as well and the greens were perfect. The fact is that our greens are not cared for in the same professional manner. Our greens need to be verticut and groomed regularly and they are not. Both of these pieces of equipment attach to the greens mowers quickly and are used regularly at well maintained golf courses. Just asking, Is anybody else tired of poor maintenance here ?

I agree. There is enough demand without maintaining them at the highest level. I also have experienced the embarrassment you talked about when a visitor has come. As bad as it is, it is still better than what it was last year. I think we have a good head greenskeeper, he just doesn't have enough of a budget.

The good news is that there are lots of courses in the general area that are maintained well. But take a look at Stonecrest for an example of what can happen when golf courses are no longer needed by the developer to sell homes.

[MrGolf]

Could not agree more. They are terrible and it has become the norm. No excuses. Certainly isn't for lack of funds. On the championship side it's not because of the amount of play. They are a complete embarrassment . The new superintendent came in with high accolades and high expectations. Looks like he took a one year sabbatical. There was one hole on the practice green at EP that had not been changed in 4 days. The super should be making rounds and asking opinions.

[perrjojo]

I would love to fix the greens for you. If enough people complain to the correct department, perhaps it might help.

[NYGUY]

I agree. I suspect the maintenance problems stem from inadequate budgets and or lack of skills.

[MrGolf]

Wonder if they would be interested in selling one of the Championship course to a private consortium and have the revenues go to them. Given the maker size I thing you would see quality back in 6 months without increasing cost to play. Let market demand drive cost to play. Just a thought .

[graciegirl]

Wonder if they would be interested in selling one of the Championship course to a private consortium and have the revenues go to them. Given the maker size I thing you would see quality back in 6 months without increasing cost to play. Let market demand drive cost to play. Just a thought .

Then they would sell it to a developer and they would build houses. Been there, done that.

[MrGolf]

you could easily lock in a stipulation that for a period of XX years the only utilization of property YY would be for the exclusive purpose of operating an 18/27 hole golf course. I am no attorney but have seen usage stipulations into property sales before. For me personally if I could pay the same rates and have a better conditioned course itg would be a no brainer.

[stan the man]

The only way to change the situation in my humble opinion is by hurting them in the pocketbook.. I for one take every chance I have I give a one star rating on the courses in the villages. Trip Advisor is one example. There are numerous golf sites and places for recommendations and reviews I will and continue to. belittle the conditions of the courses here in the villages. I know some of the people that drink the Kool-Aid will not agree with me and the moderator will probably delete this post

[graciegirl]

The only way to change the situation in my humble opinion is by hurting them in the pocketbook.. I for one take every chance I have I give a one star rating on the courses in the villages. Trip Advisor is one example. There are numerous golf sites and places for recommendations and reviews I will and continue to. belittle the conditions of the courses here in the villages. I know some of the people that drink the Kool-Aid will not agree with me and the moderator will probably delete this post

The moderator works for the owner of this forum who is a private individual(s) and has no connection to The Villages, Inc.

I am a Kool-Aid drinker. Everybody knows that. BUT Not a soul forced you or me or anyone to move here. If the courses aren't up to snuff, find a private golf course/country club community. Then you have to pay for all the upgrades the folks who run the show who know not a thing about golf course maintenance decide on. AND you have to pay for food at the restaurant...THE ONLY one. Golf course grass isn't always greener on the other greens.

Think of Scotland. Play the course the way it lies, it isn't supposed to be easy.

[Topspinmo]

O come, can't putt on the railroad tracks.:rant-rave:

[Bogie Shooter]

Having slow and bumpy greens on our Country Club courses has become the norm here. It is apparent that the superintendent is not concerned. It could be more than likely that many people don't know the difference and don't mind it. I played Evans Prairie and Bonifay this week with some guests I have and it was embarrassing. The greens were something like you would find at a muni with no budget. I know we have been in a drought and that has hampered green care but so has everyone else in middle Florida. Visited Disney with my quest as well and the greens were perfect. The fact is that our greens are not cared for in the same professional manner. Our greens need to be verticut and groomed regularly and they are not. Both of these pieces of equipment attach to the greens mowers quickly and are used regularly at well maintained golf courses. Just asking, Is anybody else tired of poor maintenance here ?

Have you played any of the courses north of 466?

[rubicon]

Having slow and bumpy greens on our Country Club courses has become the norm here. It is apparent that the superintendent is not concerned. It could be more than likely that many people don't know the difference and don't mind it. I played Evans Prairie and Bonifay this week with some guests I have and it was embarrassing. The greens were something like you would find at a muni with no budget. I know we have been in a drought and that has hampered green care but so has everyone else in middle Florida. Visited Disney with my quest as well and the greens were perfect. The fact is that our greens are not cared for in the same professional manner. Our greens need to be verticut and groomed regularly and they are not. Both of these pieces of equipment attach to the greens mowers quickly and are used regularly at well maintained golf courses. Just asking, Is anybody else tired of poor maintenance here ?

Poster based on the number of post shown for you, you appear new to TV. The topic you address has been repeated ad nauseam for the 11 years I have lived here, along with dog poop, round abouts, bad restaurants, lousy health care and bad auto/cart drivers, rude people, .............................................

[xNYer]

Think of Scotland. Play the course the way it lies, it isn't supposed to be easy.

I suppose that means it is desirable to have poorly maintained greens. It increases the difficulty of the game.

[kcrazorbackfan]

Wow; here we go again. Some of you privileged/entitled think these PUBLIC courses should look like Augusta. Go ahead and drive your personal vehicles to play courses outside the bubble.

Y'all squall like this is a dog poop post. Waaaaaaa.

[MrGolf]

Are you saying that because these are not Private courses, the condition of the greens don't matter. There are many many public courses in the are that have great greens., That is all the OP was saying. It doesn't matter if the OP posted 1 or 5000 postings, he made an accurate assessment of greens on TV courses.

[biker1]

I played Roosevelt the other day and the greens were in very good condition. Silver Lake also had very nice greens. While there are clearly some courses (both execs and championship) that have some issues, there are also courses in very good shape. Seek out the courses in better condition.

Are you saying that because these are not Private courses, the condition of the greens don't matter. There are many many public courses in the are that have great greens., That is all the OP was saying. It doesn't matter if the OP posted 1 or 5000 postings, he made an accurate assessment of greens on TV courses.

[drcar]

[/COLOR]
The moderator works for the owner of this forum who is a private individual(s) and has no connection to The Villages, Inc.

I am a Kool-Aid drinker. Everybody knows that. BUT Not a soul forced you or me or anyone to move here. If the courses aren't up to snuff, find a private golf course/country club community. Then you have to pay for all the upgrades the folks who run the show who know not a thing about golf course maintenance decide on. AND you have to pay for food at the restaurant...THE ONLY one. Golf course grass isn't always greener on the other greens.

Think of Scotland. Play the course the way it lies, it isn't supposed to be easy.

:agree::agree::agree::bigbow::bigbow::bigbow::bigb ow::thumbup::thumbup::BigApplause::BigApplause::Bi gApplause:

[ColdNoMore]

The only way to change the situation in my humble opinion is by hurting them in the pocketbook.. I for one take every chance I have I give a one star rating on the courses in the villages. Trip Advisor is one example. There are numerous golf sites and places for recommendations and reviews I will and continue to. belittle the conditions of the courses here in the villages. I know some of the people that drink the Kool-Aid will not agree with me and the moderator will probably delete this post

:BigApplause:


:agree:


I don't expect the courses here to match upscale resort courses, but I would expect them to be substantially above the average municipal...and they aren't. :ohdear:

[golf2140]

Folks, it's that time of year. This occurs every year. In a couple of weeks the greens will be fine. Then in August they will rework them. By mid September things will be great so keep cool. For those who blame The Villages, keep playing off campus, better tee-times for us dummies !!!!!!

[Dwyane Johnson]

From what I've seen, cane garden was the only champ course not to overseed the greens last winter and have the best greens in the villages right now. Looks like cane is verticutting and grooming the right way. Best I've seen cane in a long time!

[CatskillBill]

Tierra Del Sol used to be one of my favorite courses. Not now. Played there Wednesday and the greens are horrible. Black dead spots everywhere, and bumpier than heck. I'm afraid they're in trouble of losing them. It's off my play list.

[Biker Dog]

What about morning work on the bunkers???? Very sad

[l2ridehd]

There is a significant problem here with golf course maintenance. There are enough courses and revenue to hire the very best groundskeeper in the world. Think about things like last year when Palmer had to close for 2 months because they lost the greens. How much revenue did they lose?

Maintaining a golf course is more about turf knowledge and doing the right things at the right time. Budgets do matter, but knowledge is more important. You can go outside the bubble and play a dozen courses and it is very apparent where the good groundskeepers are. Here we could hire the very best and have them oversee all golf course maintenance. But instead they outsource it to the lowest bidder. And unless we all demand a better solution, it will not change.

I agree about being embarrassed to bring friends here for golf. And it doesn't have to be that way.

[jeriteri]

Did we get a new Operations Manager not too long ago. Maybe he lacks the experience he claimed he had when interviewing. I heard that happen before. These messages are noted by the Developer, it's monitored here.

[drcar]

From what I've seen, cane garden was the only champ course not to overseed the greens last winter and have the best greens in the villages right now. Looks like cane is verticutting and grooming the right way. Best I've seen cane in a long time!

:beer3::agree::agree::clap2::clap2:

[drcar]

I would love to fix the greens for you. If enough people complain to the correct department, perhaps it might help.

And how my I ask would you do that?

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Having slow and bumpy greens on our Country Club courses has become the norm here. It is apparent that the superintendent is not concerned. It could be more than likely that many people don't know the difference and don't mind it. I played Evans Prairie and Bonifay this week with some guests I have and it was embarrassing. The greens were something like you would find at a muni with no budget. I know we have been in a drought and that has hampered green care but so has everyone else in middle Florida. Visited Disney with my quest as well and the greens were perfect. The fact is that our greens are not cared for in the same professional manner. Our greens need to be verticut and groomed regularly and they are not. Both of these pieces of equipment attach to the greens mowers quickly and are used regularly at well maintained golf courses. Just asking, Is anybody else tired of poor maintenance here ?

What makes you think that verticutting is the answer?

Verticutting is a procedure that is usually done once or twice a year depending on the amount of thatch in the greens..

While I agree, the courses in TV are in less than desirable condition, I would be reluctant to talk specifically about what procedures are needed to improve them as that is not my area of expertise.

My feeing is that the problem stems from the fact that the maintenance is contracted out rather than having our own in-house GCSAA superintendents on staff.

When work like this is contracted out, the goal of the contractor is usually to maximize profits by doing the job with as little output as necessary.

I would also like to see the rates reduced to the extreme in the summer months. It makes not sense to not be taking in some money. These golf courses are empty for the most part. I would lower the rates until I saw that we had a group going off every nine minutes from 7:00 until 4:00 pm.

It also seems to me that we have an awful lot of staff in the shops. It's always amazing to me that I walk into a shop and there are two or three people standing behind the counter doing nothing, but waiting for someone to show up.

What I don't understand is that The Villages does everything so well except for golf course maintenance. The flowers in the common areas, the cleanliness, and maintenance of the rec centers and pools and everything else are pretty much first class. The golf course, IMHO range from mediocre to deplorable.

Again, I have to wonder if this is because the golf course maintenance is contracted out while everything is done in house.

[Challenger]

What makes you think that verticutting is the answer?

Verticutting is a procedure that is usually done once or twice a year depending on the amount of thatch in the greens..

While I agree, the courses in TV are in less than desirable condition, I would be reluctant to talk specifically about what procedures are needed to improve them as that is not my area of expertise.

My feeing is that the problem stems from the fact that the maintenance is contracted out rather than having our own in-house GCSAA superintendents on staff.

When work like this is contracted out, the goal of the contractor is usually to maximize profits by doing the job with as little output as necessary.

I would also like to see the rates reduced to the extreme in the summer months. It makes not sense to not be taking in some money. These golf courses are empty for the most part. I would lower the rates until I saw that we had a group going off every nine minutes from 7:00 until 4:00 pm.

It also seems to me that we have an awful lot of staff in the shops. It's always amazing to me that I walk into a shop and there are two or three people standing behind the counter doing nothing, but waiting for someone to show up.

What I don't understand is that The Villages does everything so well except for golf course maintenance. The flowers in the common areas, the cleanliness, and maintenance of the rec centers and pools and everything else are pretty much first class. The golf course, IMHO range from mediocre to deplorable.

Again, I have to wonder if this is because the golf course maintenance is contracted out while everything is done in house.

Hope the golf powers are reading this- I don't think that golf course maintenance and low bidder contracts are compatible. Good post "Doc"

[Chi-Town]

Have you played any of the courses north of 466?
Played Belle Glade and Hacienda this week. Hacienda greens were a treat; Belle Glade greens were a trick. How can there be such a big difference?

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

[Bogie Shooter]

All these comments, both good and bad, should be directed to Country Club Administration: Golf The Villages (http://golfthevillages.com/contactus.asp)
Or even call.
Posting on here and hoping that someone is reading the posts...is wasted effort.

[Bogie Shooter]

///

[drcar]

What makes you think that verticutting is the answer?

Verticutting is a procedure that is usually done once or twice a year depending on the amount of thatch in the greens..

While I agree, the courses in TV are in less than desirable condition, I would be reluctant to talk specifically about what procedures are needed to improve them as that is not my area of expertise.

My feeing is that the problem stems from the fact that the maintenance is contracted out rather than having our own in-house GCSAA superintendents on staff.

When work like this is contracted out, the goal of the contractor is usually to maximize profits by doing the job with as little output as necessary.

I would also like to see the rates reduced to the extreme in the summer months. It makes not sense to not be taking in some money. These golf courses are empty for the most part. I would lower the rates until I saw that we had a group going off every nine minutes from 7:00 until 4:00 pm.

It also seems to me that we have an awful lot of staff in the shops. It's always amazing to me that I walk into a shop and there are two or three people standing behind the counter doing nothing, but waiting for someone to show up.

What I don't understand is that The Villages does everything so well except for golf course maintenance. The flowers in the common areas, the cleanliness, and maintenance of the rec centers and pools and everything else are pretty much first class. The golf course, IMHO range from mediocre to deplorable.

Again, I have to wonder if this is because the golf course maintenance is contracted out while everything is done in house.

I am always amazed how one discussion about greens can go in so many directions.

BTW,, the Villages contract out the maintenance of the flowers in the common areas, the pool maintenance etc. Most likely to the lowest bidder.

I do no understand the point about the golf shops. When I check in, I am glad there are more then one person available. I guess I leave the staffing to the people in charge. It is like going to a restaurant, you my see lots of staff during slow times, but not enough when crowd comes in, again I allow the management to do the job. I for one think the shops are run GREAT!!!

Your point about rates is interesting in the summer. I do not know what the break even cost is for courses. Conditions can not be compared because of the number of rounds the villages do. It is like trying to compare apples and oranges. But most people on here don't want to hear that.

The point is if you do not like the conditions don't play. It is that simple!

[drcar]

All these comments, both good and bad, should be directed to Country Club Administration: Golf The Villages (http://golfthevillages.com/contactus.asp)
Or even call.
Posting on here and hoping that someone is reading the posts...is wasted effort.

Excellent point
:BigApplause:

[golfing eagles]

I am always amazed how one discussion about greens can go in so many directions.

BTW,, the Villages contract out the maintenance of the flowers in the common areas, the pool maintenance etc. Most likely to the lowest bidder.

I do no understand the point about the golf shops. When I check in, I am glad there are more then one person available. I guess I leave the staffing to the people in charge. It is like going to a restaurant, you my see lots of staff during slow times, but not enough when crowd comes in, again I allow the management to do the job. I for one think the shops are run GREAT!!!

Your point about rates is interesting in the summer. I do not know what the break even cost is for courses. Conditions can not be compared because of the number of rounds the villages do. It is like trying to compare apples and oranges. But most people on here don't want to hear that.

The point is if you do not like the conditions don't play. It is that simple!

:BigApplause::BigApplause::BigApplause::bigbow::bi gbow::bigbow:

[perrjojo]

And how my I ask would you do that?
My point was that I would love to fix the greens but the people reading these posts do not fix the greens. Voice your concerns to someone who can fix the problem, otherwise it is just complaining.

[rjn5656]

Who do we complain to?

[rjn5656]

I agree with an earlier post. Some greens are great, some are ok, and some a pitiful (Tierra del sol, Belle Glade). I think the original point is there should be some accountability by the villages organizations, greenskeeper, etc.

[Challenger]

Played Belle Glade last night-twilight-Calusa. Greens are unplayable, at least if you are trying to play golf. Fairways and Tees, acceptable.

[Bogie Shooter]

Who do we complain to?

see post #31

[drcar]

My point was that I would love to fix the greens but the people reading these posts do not fix the greens. Voice your concerns to someone who can fix the problem, otherwise it is just complaining.

Thanks, I agree with you. Posting on here can't fix the problem. Call GMS, the company that runs the operations.

[graciegirl]

...

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I am always amazed how one discussion about greens can go in so many directions.

BTW,, the Villages contract out the maintenance of the flowers in the common areas, the pool maintenance etc. Most likely to the lowest bidder.

I do no understand the point about the golf shops. When I check in, I am glad there are more then one person available. I guess I leave the staffing to the people in charge. It is like going to a restaurant, you my see lots of staff during slow times, but not enough when crowd comes in, again I allow the management to do the job. I for one think the shops are run GREAT!!!

Your point about rates is interesting in the summer. I do not know what the break even cost is for courses. Conditions can not be compared because of the number of rounds the villages do. It is like trying to compare apples and oranges. But most people on here don't want to hear that.

The point is if you do not like the conditions don't play. It is that simple!

Do you believe that more rounds are played on the Villages championship golf courses in the winter than on other Florida courses in the winter?

I've worked at several Florida courses in the winter and I can tell you that starting times began at 7:00 and were completely full until 2:00 in the afternoon. Many days we'd have people come in for nine holes after 2:00.

I worked here in the winter because they needed extra staff. Staffs were cut to the bare minimum in the summer season as the courses weren't making enough money to justify have a lot of people hanging around. While you might like having three people to wait on you when you go into a pro shop, it is not economically smart to be paying people to do nothing when your revenues are at their lowest.

You shouldn't be staffing for your peak periods year round.

As far as what the break even point is, it is always better top have people coming to play golf. They often spend more money on the range, restaurant and golf shops. I'd rather have ten groups at $80 each than five at $160 each.

The additional wear on the golf course would be minimal and more people generate more revenue.

As far as contracting out other work, planting flowers is not the same as maintaining a golf course. You can do a mediocre job of planting flowers and hardly anyone would notice. Do a mediocre job on a golf course and you have tons of complaints.

What I don't understand is that The Villages does such a good job on every other aspect of this community. When I began playing golf about 14 months ago, I expected that the golf courses would be maintained at the same standard as the rest of this wonderful community. I am deeply disappointed.

[sheena0904]

From what I've seen, cane garden was the only champ course not to overseed the greens last winter and have the best greens in the villages right now. Looks like cane is verticutting and grooming the right way. Best I've seen cane in a long time!
Those greens are in great shape!

[ajbrown]

I do agree with the sentiment of this thread, especially about having guests. I want to say that Mallory has been more consistent than other courses. I was told they hired a new greens keeper a year or 2 ago and I have seen the difference.

We played today and the greens were a bit slow with sand on them, but IMO putting sand on a green in time smooths it out, so someone is paying attention.

:thumbup: to Mallory IMO

[banjobob]

Sure the courses have suffered from the drought but they all have sprinklers and I'm sure they have the knowledge to keep them in proper condition, one of my pet peeves is lazy golfers that don't repair ball marks, raking the sand ,not sanding divots some golfers don't even have a sand bottle on their carts, take a large divot and just walk off SAD

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

From what I've seen, cane garden was the only champ course not to overseed the greens last winter and have the best greens in the villages right now. Looks like cane is verticutting and grooming the right way. Best I've seen cane in a long time!

What is with you and verticutting? Do you understand why verticutting is done? It is not a be all and end all to greens maintenance. It's a practice that, unless there are specific problems, is usually done once or twice a year in order to keep thatch at its optimum level. A groomer is a round brush like device that attaches to the mower. Again, it is usually used to address a specific problem and not necessarily part of regular. daily, weekly, or monthly maintenance.

I was in the golf business for forty years, but my area of expertise was not course maintenance. I've have worked very closely with several excellent golf course superintendents and I would never tell any of the exactly what kind of procedures need to improve the golf course.

[graciegirl]

Anybody see the greens at The Players Club at the tournament on Television over the weekend?

[Bogie Shooter]

Tierra Del Sol used to be one of my favorite courses. Not now. Played there Wednesday and the greens are horrible. Black dead spots everywhere, and bumpier than heck. I'm afraid they're in trouble of losing them. It's off my play list.

I played the back nine this morning. The greens do not have any black dead spots anywhere. Probably ten times better than, the condition of Belle Glade.
Even discussed with playing partners.

[swooner]

Having slow and bumpy greens on our Country Club courses has become the norm here. It is apparent that the superintendent is not concerned. It could be more than likely that many people don't know the difference and don't mind it. I played Evans Prairie and Bonifay this week with some guests I have and it was embarrassing. The greens were something like you would find at a muni with no budget. I know we have been in a drought and that has hampered green care but so has everyone else in middle Florida. Visited Disney with my quest as well and the greens were perfect. The fact is that our greens are not cared for in the same professional manner. Our greens need to be verticut and groomed regularly and they are not. Both of these pieces of equipment attach to the greens mowers quickly and are used regularly at well maintained golf courses. Just asking, Is anybody else tired of poor maintenance here ?


Have been playing golf here in TV for 25 years now. Sorry but have to strenuously disagree with this post. In the past 6-12 months the greens in TV Championship courses are better than they have ever been. On the courses I've played regularly, N of 466 and Cane Gdn and Mallory the greens are far better than they have ever been. They are generally quick and putt true. The latter assumes you know how to putt. Even the healing period after aerating is far better than in past years. Even had to repair a few ball marks today on greens that in the past were like concrete. Give it a break pal. You are paying $25-30 a round rather than the $100 or so at Disney. BTW, I'd be happy to provide putting lessons for $30 a half hour. sounds like you might need them.

[stujake]

I have played both country club (often referred to as championship, but far from it) courses and the executive courses here in The Villages. For those of you complaining about the country club courses, you should try the executive courses where the greens are often bumpy and sandy. Sometimes the edge of the green and the start of the first cut fringe are indistinguishable. Then you would appreciate the country club courses. I agree with others who stated that you should look outside The Villages to see if those courses are better. Maybe you need to go to Arizona, where the courses are fantastic; however, green fees are just as fantastic - sometimes nearing $200 or more for 18 holes (unless you purchase one of the available cards that allows a discount for play at some of the courses}. In the end, as the old saying goes, you get what you pay for.

[tikigal]

I would love to fix the greens for you. If enough people complain to the correct department, perhaps it might help.

:BigApplause:I agree, the courses look like Municipal golf courses, and no one does anything about slow play. 4.5 hours today to play Hacienda Hills at 4400 yds off the green tees, that is a joke. Sit and wait on every hole. We'd be thrown off the course at a country club, and it's not even 5100-5300 yards, standard women's course. What a joke!:posting:
Let's make everyone happy seems to be there policy... like who is that???? People who can't play golf, and have no etiquette, they shouldn't even play championship golf!

[ColdNoMore]

Have been playing golf here in TV for 25 years now. Sorry but have to strenuously disagree with this post. In the past 6-12 months the greens in TV Championship courses are better than they have ever been. On the courses I've played regularly, N of 466 and Cane Gdn and Mallory the greens are far better than they have ever been. They are generally quick and putt true. The latter assumes you know how to putt. Even the healing period after aerating is far better than in past years. Even had to repair a few ball marks today on greens that in the past were like concrete. Give it a break pal. You are paying $25-30 a round rather than the $100 or so at Disney. BTW, I'd be happy to provide putting lessons for $30 a half hour. sounds like you might need them.

And I will have to disagree.

While I've only been playing TV championship courses since the first time we first rented 8 years ago, the greens at most of the courses (since last summer)... are worse than at any other time in the last 8 years IMHO.

I am not one of those who judge greens on how 'green' they are as I don't care if they're brown in spots, as long as they are healthy, smooth, evenly cut, have a stimp of at least 7 and most of all to me...are consistent from one green to another on the same course.

What I have see of late, is a lot of attention given to the putting greens whereby they look great and putt nicely and then finding the ones on the course...are drastically different. :mad:

I have also seen lately, where the person mowing the greens does not take the time to make that last pass all the way around the green against the collar, which means you can be on the edge of the green...but putting through several days of growth.

Both conditions pointing to management issues...NOT lack of water or other issues of nature.




As a general comment for those who seem to instantly have a knee-jerk reaction to any criticism, of any part, of any action, of any person of The Villages, please try to keep in mind...everyone is entitled to their opinion without the refrain of.... 'if you don't like it move.'

Thank you. :ho:

[Bogie Shooter]

And I will have to disagree.

While I've only been playing TV championship courses since the first time we first rented 8 years ago, the greens at most of the courses (since last summer)... are worse than at any other time in the last 8 years IMHO.

I am not one of those who judge greens on how 'green' they are as I don't care if they're brown in spots, as long as they are healthy, smooth, evenly cut, have a stimp of at least 7 and most of all to me...are consistent from one green to another on the same course.

What I have see of late, is a lot of attention given to the putting greens whereby they look great and putt nicely and then finding the ones on the course...are drastically different. :mad:

I have also seen lately, where the person mowing the greens does not take the time to make that last pass all the way around the green against the collar, which means you can be on the edge of the green...but putting through several days of growth.

Both conditions pointing to management issues...NOT lack of water or other issues of nature.




As a general comment for those who seem to instantly have a knee-jerk reaction to any criticism, of any part, of any action, of any person of The Villages, please try to keep in mind...everyone is entitled to their opinion without the refrain of.... 'if you don't like it move.'

Thank you. :ho:

Have you shared with country club administration?

[Polar Bear]

...everyone is entitled to their opinion without the refrain of.... 'if you don't like it move.' ...
Hmm. Is that not an opinion too?

[dbussone]

Hmm. Is that not an opinion too?



[emoji41][emoji631][emoji106]


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[tmbromley]

I've been here for 4 years now and things would be better if the management would aerate the greens on all the courses at the same time and not taking a month or more to do it. We understand but when you spread it out it just seems like it takes forever to get em right! Then just about the time they're perfect in two weeks they start it all over again and we have really nice betmuda greens only about two weeks or so after each aeration all because they won't do them all at the same time. Then after they aerate them the second time for about two weeks we have nice Bermuda greens only to have them seeded with rye and so the best greens are in the winter which is totally different than Bermuda grass. It's pretty rediculous. Overseeing the greens heavily this far north in FL is just plain bad policy. If they overseeded very lightly the greens would come back quickly in the spring but they don't get the spring spurt because it takes so long for the rye to completely die out. Just poor management! Really kind of sad and the golfers pay and never hardly experience really good Bermuda greens. It's done by a management that doesn't care about the golfer but only having green grass so the Villages can sell real estate. Sad indeed! Who wants piece meal aeration for over a month? It's nuts! Same thing every darn year!

[ColdNoMore]

Have you shared with country club administration?

Yes.

Why do you want to know?

[ColdNoMore]

Hmm. Is that not an opinion too?

Obviously...it is. ;)

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I've been here for 4 years now and things would be better if the management would aerate the greens on all the courses at the same time and not taking a month or more to do it. We understand but when you spread it out it just seems like it takes forever to get em right! Then just about the time they're perfect in two weeks they start it all over again and we have really nice betmuda greens only about two weeks or so after each aeration all because they won't do them all at the same time. Then after they aerate them the second time for about two weeks we have nice Bermuda greens only to have them seeded with rye and so the best greens are in the winter which is totally different than Bermuda grass. It's pretty rediculous. Overseeing the greens heavily this far north in FL is just plain bad policy. If they overseeded very lightly the greens would come back quickly in the spring but they don't get the spring spurt because it takes so long for the rye to completely die out. Just poor management! Really kind of sad and the golfers pay and never hardly experience really good Bermuda greens. It's done by a management that doesn't care about the golfer but only having green grass so the Villages can sell real estate. Sad indeed! Who wants piece meal aeration for over a month? It's nuts! Same thing every darn year!

I think that the idea of staggering the aerification is two-fold. First of all, it would require an army of workers and equipment to do them all on the same day or even in the same week. Secondly, by staggering the times, golfers always have the option of playing greens that have not been aerified.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Suggesting that people move if they don't like the golf course conditions, doesn't really fly with regards to the executive courses. We are promised "FREE" golf for life. While we all understand that it really isn't free golf and that we pay for it with our monthly amenities fee we shouldn't have to put up with inferior conditions.

If you play the championship courses, you always have the option of voting with your pocketbook and playing outside The Villages. However, for those of us that play mostly on the executives, that is not an option.

We pay our fee every month and I believe that we should be able to expect reasonable conditions. Many of the executive courses are in reasonable conditions, but many are substandard and we should not have to tolerate that.

I suppose we can complain to the administration, but what other power do we really hold? if we decide to withhold our amenity fee, we will be taken to court and fined.

Not to turn this political, but the more I think about it, the more I realize that this demonstrates the capitalist versus te socialist economic system.

Anyroad, I really don't know what can be done other than complain. I think that the only thing that might change things is if home sales begin to dwindle and it is decided that it's because of the executive golf course conditions.

[MrGolf]

Well said

[stan the man]

I really love when people tell me to move if I don't like it.. Well I'm not moving I do my part I do not rake the traps I do not fix ball marks on the green and I complained constantly. The people that tell me they played in Scotland,and loved the course conditions there, then maybe they should move to Scotland. So in my little way I'm trying to make the courses look like Scotland I drive close to the green as I possibly can the ambassador is just someone with no power. I followed the tire tracks of carts that were there before me, Hoping it will make it grass free And make it more of a challenge. I take forever to look for A lost ball. You have no trouble recognizing me as there are many many "me people" out there

[Mikeod]

It's frustrating to read these posts about the executive courses. In 2010, I joined a group called the Executive Golf Advisory Group that met with representatives of GMS and the district to discuss conditions and policies on these courses. About a year later, the name was changed to Executive Golf Improvement Group and our status was changed to avoid problems with Florida's Sunshine Law. But we still had the attention of GMS and the district. The members were assigned a group of courses to monitor and had the contact information of the facility manager and district/GMS person responsible so problems could be addressed immediately if necessary for safety or at our meetings. In our quarterly meetings, we presented areas of concern and never had a problem getting them addressed.

Unfortunately, the group disbanded in 2016. One reason was that members, who inspected the courses on their own time, eventually became tired of the commitment. Solicitation of new members (even posted here) was inadequate. And new leadership was not forthcoming. I think we lost an opportunity to have some input in the maintenance of these courses at that point.

Perhaps the group could be reinstated.

[golfing eagles]

I've been here for 4 years now and things would be better if the management would aerate the greens on all the courses at the same time and not taking a month or more to do it. We understand but when you spread it out it just seems like it takes forever to get em right! Then just about the time they're perfect in two weeks they start it all over again and we have really nice betmuda greens only about two weeks or so after each aeration all because they won't do them all at the same time. Then after they aerate them the second time for about two weeks we have nice Bermuda greens only to have them seeded with rye and so the best greens are in the winter which is totally different than Bermuda grass. It's pretty rediculous. Overseeing the greens heavily this far north in FL is just plain bad policy. If they overseeded very lightly the greens would come back quickly in the spring but they don't get the spring spurt because it takes so long for the rye to completely die out. Just poor management! Really kind of sad and the golfers pay and never hardly experience really good Bermuda greens. It's done by a management that doesn't care about the golfer but only having green grass so the Villages can sell real estate. Sad indeed! Who wants piece meal aeration for over a month? It's nuts! Same thing every darn year!

Have you considered how much more equipment and personnel you would need to aerate 34 9's of championship courses all "at the same time"????

[swooner]

Have you considered how much more equipment and personnel you would need to aerate 34 9's of championship courses all "at the same time"????

And that all of the courses would be closed at the same time! Brilliant suggestion!

[graciegirl]

I really love when people tell me to move if I don't like it.. Well I'm not moving I do my part I do not rake the traps I do not fix ball marks on the green and I complained constantly. The people that tell me they played in Scotland,and loved the course conditions there, then maybe they should move to Scotland. So in my little way I'm trying to make the courses look like Scotland I drive close to the green as I possibly can the ambassador is just someone with no power. I followed the tire tracks of carts that were there before me, Hoping it will make it grass free And make it more of a challenge. I take forever to look for A lost ball. You have no trouble recognizing me as there are many many "me people" out there

So. You can play them the way they are or complain to someone with power to effect change..

Golf here in The Villages is unlike golf any place I have known. There are very few annoying leagues. There are very few husbands teaching wifes. YAY! Most people are old enough and responsible enough to keep the pace of play, sand and repair their divots, not walk in a putting line, not holler out in your back swing and complain to the people who can do something about it. If all else fails there are other options. Thank goodness homes are easy to sell at a profit.

[bbrizendine]

I agree, terrible today

[bbrizendine]

verticutting and grooming are part of green cutting maintenance. It takes more effort so guess what !

[bbrizendine]

This is a great community of folks. Amazing looking grounds, residents keep their homes immaculate. i have never seen one piece of litter. Ever! Amazing course layouts and green contour. As good as anywhere in the country. You walk up on any green in this complex to putt and it's like putting on the worst no budget muni you have ever been on. I don't get it. Not only do we deserve better, we need to demand better.
And yes I mean Palmer as well.

[bbrizendine]

Exactly. I"m not talking about rocket science, just verticutt and groom 2 or 3 times a year. What other questions do you have even though you weren't a maintenance guy in 40 years.

[graciegirl]

We have lived in Golf Course Communities for most of our lives. I am not playing now but my husband plays 18 holes, four days a week and has in his lifetime enjoyed playing at many well known golf courses in this country and abroad.

My question as to how was golf, how did you play to him is always answered with something positive.

I just asked him...Henry, how are the greens lately?

His answer was this; "Pretty good, they just aerated them and sanded them and they are coming back pretty good".

He doesn't play the executives.

[tmbromley]

Have you considered how much more equipment and personnel you would need to aerate 34 9's of championship courses all "at the same time"????

Hey, the Villages contracts this out so get the people in and do it. This is a big project but it could be done, we are not building a piano. This is aeration not constructing a house or a new rec center. It could easily be done over two weeks at most.

The main problem for our greens is the amount of heavy over seeding. Looks great but it robs the Bermuda of the spring growth spurt because it takes rye grass so long to die. It's still growing on some greens that have been aerated a month ago. It's not necessary and this past year we really never had a frost on many of the courses. It should be done if they must very lightly like they do at other championship courses in north Florida like Ponte Vedra for example. But you have to know something about grass to understand this issue. You also have to know something about contracting out the aeration and what it really takes to get it done. This could be done a little easier if the maintenance wasn't always contracted out but that's the way they do it here, doesn't mean it's the best way for us just the least expensive for them.

So if you don't like the greens here and you think they could be better what's the answer? The greens eventually get nice here and the courses that got aerated in early May are in good shap now so that kind of proves my point.

No way to prove the other point which is the issue of heavy overseeding cause they have no idea of changing because they don't care what the golfers think! The want to sell real estate - that's number one and real pretty greens in the winter is the way they feel is their best option for doing that. Courses like Ponte Vedra are all about the golfing experience and so they have to do it right to keep the business - not so in the Villages. Get it...that's why all this yapping about our greens isn't going to get us anywhere. It's been going on ever since I've been here and I don't see any change as ZERO. The only place you might see improvements is in the fairways since they didn't overseed them because of the water restrictions - maybe. If they don't do it again this year with the rain we've had it might really start getting better on the new courses below 466A. Yet to be determined.....the fairways of Tierra and Hacienda are really nice. We shall see. Bout all we can hope for, sad to say.

Any of you guys ever talk to the superintendents? I have...

[OhioBuckeye]

Well, don't like to say to much about this because I don't think any of us really know what's going on. To me I don't play the Championship course very much, because I guess I got used to playing up north where the courses up there only cost $20. play with cart. When I do play down here in TV I normally play off campus. The courses are lots cheaper especially when I'm already paying $150. a month amenities. As far as the greens I'm sure our monthly amenities only go so far & golf isn't the only thing they have to maintenance & I'm sure it only goes so far. I'll stay on the par 3 courses. Not all of the Championship courses are like the one shown in the picture, so if the greens are bad there, go play another one!

[collie1228]

I play championship course twice a week with a neighborhood group. We don't play Evans Prairie as it's just a little too far from us, but we regularly play all of the other courses in TV. In the past two weeks we have played Palmer, Cane, Havana and OBH, and found all to be in pretty good condition. On yesterday's round at OBH we were especially impressed with the lush fairways and nice, medium speed greens. Obviously these courses have benefited from all of the recent rain.

[Bogie Shooter]

Played Lopez today, Torrie to Erin,.Course , all of it, in beautiful playing condition.
No, none, comparison to the courses south of 466A.

[rjn5656]

Maybe a few letters from golfers to the Morses would help.

[mulligan]

Probably the best solution to the bad green issue, is to prepare your own at home .That way you can have them the way you like them every time. My personal preference is to wilt them a bit in a saute pan, although this doesn't seem to work with the hardier varieties found in the south. Those would be better boiled with a fat source, such as smoked ham hocks, until tender.

[ColdNoMore]

Probably the best solution to the bad green issue, is to prepare your own at home .That way you can have them the way you like them every time. My personal preference is to wilt them a bit in a saute pan, although this doesn't seem to work with the hardier varieties found in the south. Those would be better boiled with a fat source, such as smoked ham hocks, until tender.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRF24LY5pvw


:D

[stan the man]

Probably the best solution to the bad green issue, is to prepare your own at home .That way you can have them the way you like them every time. My personal preference is to wilt them a bit in a saute pan, although this doesn't seem to work with the hardier varieties found in the south. Those would be better boiled with a fat source, such as smoked ham hocks, until tender.

Was that supposed to be a joke ??????

[Bogie Shooter]

Probably the best solution to the bad green issue, is to prepare your own at home .That way you can have them the way you like them every time. My personal preference is to wilt them a bit in a saute pan, although this doesn't seem to work with the hardier varieties found in the south. Those would be better boiled with a fat source, such as smoked ham hocks, until tender.

Was that supposed to be a joke ??????

I thought it was funny....................
Sure beats the pi%^ing contest about the good and the bad evaluations of the same courses.:beer3:

[kcrazorbackfan]

To the OP (and all the other whiners) - what courses are you whining about that has the bad greens? I played Lopez Tuesday, Havana yesterday, Bonifay this morning and Cane Garden this afternoon; ALL HAVE GREAT GREENS.

Again, what courses have you been playing?

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

To the OP (and all the other whiners) - what courses are you whining about that has the bad greens? I played Lopez Tuesday, Havana yesterday, Bonifay this morning and Cane Garden this afternoon; ALL HAVE GREAT GREENS.

Again, what courses have you been playing?

I've played a few of the championships and I would say that they have decent greens. The only one that I would say that they greens were exceptional was Lopez which I played last October.

Palmer, Hacienda, Tierra del Sol, and OBG are just OK. I wouldn't complain about them, but I wouldn't describe them as great.

Many of the executives have some serious problems. What's puzzling to me is that as I play the executives, I see a lot of projects going on that don't make a lot of sense while not much is being done about serious problems.

[rjn5656]

Belle Glade is terrible

[ColdNoMore]

Belle Glade is terrible

Having played it last week...I couldn't agree more. :swear:

[Challenger]

Belle Glade is worse than terrible!!

[Chi-Town]

Belle Glade is terrible
The fairways are fine, but the greens are shot.

Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk

[ajbrown]

Doc, I always enjoy your perspective on golf subjects. I have putted on greens where you worked when trying to qualify for things…

Here is my opinion as subjective as any other. Even when the greens are good here they are not even close to what I played in MA. I can count on one hand the number of times when I was in a round here and thought, these greens are really good. One time was at Palmer. They were smooth and as important (to me) fast. I watched with pleasure at my competitors (teen handicappers) having no clue how to putt on greens this quick. I am a bit embarrassed I got pleasure out if that :evil6:.

I am not talking about private clubs in MA, I am talking about courses like Foxboro where I was a member. It was a blue collar club back in the day. All they cared about was the greens, sometimes they s*cked and that was all the members talked about, but ,most of the time they were awesome and that is all the members talked about. I once brought a friend for a member guest and he asked me the line of a 10 foot putt, he thought it was left edge. I then told him if I were to hit this I would play about 3 feet of break AND I would hit it as if it was a 3 foot putt.

Those were great greens, what we have here are OK when they are in good shape which I will live with. Just my opinion.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Doc, I always enjoy your perspective on golf subjects. I have putted on greens where you worked when trying to qualify for things…

Here is my opinion as subjective as any other. Even when the greens are good here they are not even close to what I played in MA. I can count on one hand the number of times when I was in a round here and thought, these greens are really good. One time was at Palmer. They were smooth and as important (to me) fast. I watched with pleasure at my competitors (teen handicappers) having no clue how to putt on greens this quick. I am a bit embarrassed I got pleasure out if that :evil6:.

I am not talking about private clubs in MA, I am talking about courses like Foxboro where I was a member. It was a blue collar club back in the day. All they cared about was the greens, sometimes they s*cked and that was all the members talked about, but ,most of the time they were awesome and that is all the members talked about. I once brought a friend for a member guest and he asked me the line of a 10 foot putt, he thought it was left edge. I then told him if I were to hit this I would play about 3 feet of break AND I would hit it as if it was a 3 foot putt.

Those were great greens, what we have here are OK when they are in good shape which I will live with. Just my opinion.

You really can't compare bent/poa greens to Bermuda. But I have played on some excellent Bermuda greens in different parts of Florida. Like I said, I played Lopez last October and they were excellent. The greens on the championships that I've played have been mediocre at best. I wouldn't complain about them, but I can see people who have been playing on Bermuda for a long time might think that they're excellent.

I didn't know you were a member at Foxboro. Bob Day and I were good friends. In fact, I interviewed for the job there when he left. It's a very nice course and the greens are very nice, but they're not even close to being the best in Massachusetts or new England.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

The fairways are fine, but the greens are shot.

Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk

I've never seen Bermuda fairways cut this high. They're OK, but I'd like to see them cut down a bit.

[ajbrown]

<stuff snipped by Alan>It's a very nice course and the greens are very nice, but they're not even close to being the best in Massachusetts or new England.

I agree and did not mean to convey that. When conditions were good and they had them rolling, it was an adventure hitting the green in the wrong place. I miss that.

[CatskillBill]

I played the back nine this morning. The greens do not have any black dead spots anywhere. Probably ten times better than, the condition of Belle Glade.
Even discussed with playing partners.

The first two are pictures of # 15 at Tierra. The right hand picture is of #5 on Hacienda Palms. I see black dead spots.

[ColdNoMore]

The first two are pictures of # 15 at Tierra. The right hand picture is of #5 on Hacienda Palms. I see black dead spots.

No doubt about it...the photos don't lie.

It seems some folks simply have lower standards, are loathe to criticize anything having to do with the developer and that seems to be primarily...from whence the controversy is emanating. :shrug:

Like I've said previously, I certainly don't expect perfection for the price we pay, but...there is simply no excuse for the condition of so many of the championship courses greens. :(

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I played De La Vista this morning. Possibly the worst greens I've ever seen in my life. The rest of the course is not too bad, but when you're playing 7 par threes, the rest of the course is not all that important.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

The first two are pictures of # 15 at Tierra. The right hand picture is of #5 on Hacienda Palms. I see black dead spots.

I played Hacienda Palms last week and didn't notice any dead spots. The greens were not great, but I didn't see anything that looked like that photo. I'm not questioning you but I'm wondering if this happened recently.

I played Hill Top and Silver Lake today and I noticed a lot of bad spots on the greens that weren't there a week ago. It looks like they're losing them.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I agree and did not mean to convey that. When conditions were good and they had them rolling, it was an adventure hitting the green in the wrong place. I miss that.

Sorry, I think my post might have come across the wrong way. Foxboro is an excellent course and has very good greens. I probably just should have left it at that. I was trying to get to the point that as good as the Foxboro greens are compared to what we have here, there are greens that are even better than that.

[sloanst]

I have found that courses South of 466A are in abysmal shape. I have heard the draught excuse but other courses outside of the bubble had no problem maintaining their greens. I play World Woods on Saturday and saw that it was maintained beautifully and it is a public course. I have played several courses North of 466A and found that most are in good shape. It really is frustrating to see the investment made in golf courses to be thrown away with pitiful maintenance. The Villages shouldn't think that they have a monopoly on golf in this area. Driving an hour or so in any direction to play golf on a beautiful course is not a problem. Poor course maintenance can be rumored to potential buyers and eventually hurt their bottom line.

[midtee9]

It's frustrating to read these posts about the executive courses. In 2010, I joined a group called the Executive Golf Advisory Group that met with representatives of GMS and the district to discuss conditions and policies on these courses. About a year later, the name was changed to Executive Golf Improvement Group and our status was changed to avoid problems with Florida's Sunshine Law. But we still had the attention of GMS and the district. The members were assigned a group of courses to monitor and had the contact information of the facility manager and district/GMS person responsible so problems could be addressed immediately if necessary for safety or at our meetings. In our quarterly meetings, we presented areas of concern and never had a problem getting them addressed.

Unfortunately, the group disbanded in 2016. One reason was that members, who inspected the courses on their own time, eventually became tired of the commitment. Solicitation of new members (even posted here) was inadequate. And new leadership was not forthcoming. I think we lost an opportunity to have some input in the maintenance of these courses at that point.

Perhaps the group could be reinstated.
I had contacted Eric of GMS last year about the condition of the greens and tees on the "Executive Golf Trail". I have been coming to TV for 12 years. Over this period of time the playing conditions have become worse. This golfing setup was a large reason for the explosion of home buyers in TV.
I talked to him about the possibility of looking at alternative grasses for the courses. There are companies that have developed some hybrid strains
that are user friendly........less water, less fert., less mowing, disease resistant and much less care required overall.
A company in Texas (Bladerunner....I have no interest) seems to have developed such grasses. As an aside, they furnished the grass for the Olympic course in Brazil. I do not know the economics involved.....if a program is workable for remove and replace. I have not heard back from Eric.

[rjn5656]

I played Mallory, Bonifay and Hacienda in the last week. Mallory greens were excellent, Bonifay still need a lot of work since aeration and Hacienda greens rolled nice but were very slow, maybe due to all the rain.

[johnboy]

Most of the people who play our courses have not experienced what a championship course is like to play. With greens that run between 11-13 and consistent traps and nice fairways and rough. To them this is the normal and it is fine with them. If anyone took the time to see what the revenue that comes in here is, they would know that it is a budget issue that they allow to maintain our courses.

[ColdNoMore]

Most of the people who play our courses have not experienced what a championship course is like to play. With greens that run between 11-13 and consistent traps and nice fairways and rough. To them this is the normal and it is fine with them. If anyone took the time to see what the revenue that comes in here is, they would know that it is a budget issue that they allow to maintain our courses.

I think you're optimistic on those green speeds.

Upscale resort courses known for 'fast' greens, still only average 8-10 on the stimp.

Oakmont, where the stimpmeter was invented, brags about having the fastest greens around...and they normally run about 10-12. :shrug:



This Rickie Fowler video proves Oakmont'''s greens are rolling at ridiculous speeds - Golf Digest (http://www.golfdigest.com/story/this-rickie-fowler-video-proves-oakmonts-greens-are-rolling-at-ridiculous-speeds)

The typical PGA Tour speed is between 10 and 11.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I think you're optimistic on those green speeds.

Upscale resort courses known for 'fast' greens, still only average 8-10 on the stimp.

Oakmont, where the stimpmeter was invented, brags about having the fastest greens around...and they normally run about 10-12. :shrug:



This Rickie Fowler video proves Oakmont'''s greens are rolling at ridiculous speeds - Golf Digest (http://www.golfdigest.com/story/this-rickie-fowler-video-proves-oakmonts-greens-are-rolling-at-ridiculous-speeds)

The Stimpmeter was actually invented by Edward Stimpson in Newton, MA.

Oakmont's greens are among the fastest in the world and I doubt that they are between 10 and 12. They are probably closer to 13 on a regular basis. I do know that back in 1953 it was the only time in history that the USGA slowed down the greens for the US Open.

To expect greens anywhere to play that fast is more than a bit unrealistic.

The greens on the PGA Tour week in and week out average about 11 and I doubt that most players in The Villages would be able to play on greens that fast. Of course, the amount of slope in the greens has a lot to do with how they play as well. The greens at Oakmont as well as the greens at Augusta National have a lot of undulations and are usually somewhere around 13 feet. What that Rickie Fowler video doesn't show is how much downhill that putt is.

I played a course up in Massachusetts called the Myopia Hunt Club that had the most undulating greens I think I've ever played. They slowed them down to 11 a few years back because they were deemed to be unfair. I remember being able to drop a ball from shoulder height on some of their greens only to have it roll 50 feet off the green. I once chipped at ball two feet short of the hole at the eighth hole there only to have to come back to my feet. In one US Open held there, a player putted his ball into a water hazard next to the fourth green.

I also played Winged Foot when their greens were at US Open speed and they were almost impossible. That resulted in the highest winning US Open score in the modern era.

Good private club greens usually run around 9-10 and most golfers would find that pretty fast. Average speed at a lot of public facilities tends to be around 8-9 and that is considered medium speed. I would guess that the championship courses that I've played, with the exception of Lopez last October, are running at about 8-9. That's not a bad speed for most golfers.

I played Chula Vista this morning and I've played fairways that are faster than those greens. In fact, the only thing slower than the greens was the two groups in front of us.

I'm not happy about greens that are that slow, but I can't tolerate taking two hours to play nine holes on an easy executive. There are some people that just don't belong on a golf course.

[dewilson58]

There are some people that just don't belong on a golf course.

WOW.

If they pay, they belong.

[Polar Bear]

WOW.

If they pay, they belong.
Gotta agree. Golf has fought the elitist image enough.

[ColdNoMore]

The Stimpmeter was actually invented by Edward Stimpson in Newton, MA.

Oakmont's greens are among the fastest in the world and I doubt that they are between 10 and 12. They are probably closer to 13 on a regular basis. I do know that back in 1953 it was the only time in history that the USGA slowed down the greens for the US Open.

To expect greens anywhere to play that fast is more than a bit unrealistic.

The greens on the PGA Tour week in and week out average about 11 and I doubt that most players in The Villages would be able to play on greens that fast. Of course, the amount of slope in the greens has a lot to do with how they play as well. The greens at Oakmont as well as the greens at Augusta National have a lot of undulations and are usually somewhere around 13 feet. What that Rickie Fowler video doesn't show is how much downhill that putt is.

I played a course up in Massachusetts called the Myopia Hunt Club that had the most undulating greens I think I've ever played. They slowed them down to 11 a few years back because they were deemed to be unfair. I remember being able to drop a ball from shoulder height on some of their greens only to have it roll 50 feet off the green. I once chipped at ball two feet short of the hole at the eighth hole there only to have to come back to my feet. In one US Open held there, a player putted his ball into a water hazard next to the fourth green.

I also played Winged Foot when their greens were at US Open speed and they were almost impossible. That resulted in the highest winning US Open score in the modern era.

Good private club greens usually run around 9-10 and most golfers would find that pretty fast. Average speed at a lot of public facilities tends to be around 8-9 and that is considered medium speed. I would guess that the championship courses that I've played, with the exception of Lopez last October, are running at about 8-9. That's not a bad speed for most golfers.

I played Chula Vista this morning and I've played fairways that are faster than those greens. In fact, the only thing slower than the greens was the two groups in front of us.

I'm not happy about greens that are that slow, but I can't tolerate taking two hours to play nine holes on an easy executive. There are some people that just don't belong on a golf course.

OK, I should have said 'born' at Oakmont.

U.S. Open: How the Stimpmeter was born at Oakmont (http://www.pga.com/news/pga-tour/us-open-how-stimpmeter-born-oakmont)

U.S. Open: How the Stimpmeter was born at Oakmont.

U.S. Open: How the Stimpmeter was born at Oakmont (http://www.pga.com/news/pga-tour/us-open-how-stimpmeter-born-oakmont)

It's called a "Stimpmeter" in honor of inventor Edward S. Stimpson and in a nice bit of serendipity, the device traces its origins back to storied Oakmont Country Club, site of this season's second major.

[golfing eagles]

The Stimpmeter was actually invented by Edward Stimpson in Newton, MA.

Oakmont's greens are among the fastest in the world and I doubt that they are between 10 and 12. They are probably closer to 13 on a regular basis. I do know that back in 1953 it was the only time in history that the USGA slowed down the greens for the US Open.

To expect greens anywhere to play that fast is more than a bit unrealistic.

The greens on the PGA Tour week in and week out average about 11 and I doubt that most players in The Villages would be able to play on greens that fast. Of course, the amount of slope in the greens has a lot to do with how they play as well. The greens at Oakmont as well as the greens at Augusta National have a lot of undulations and are usually somewhere around 13 feet. What that Rickie Fowler video doesn't show is how much downhill that putt is.

I played a course up in Massachusetts called the Myopia Hunt Club that had the most undulating greens I think I've ever played. They slowed them down to 11 a few years back because they were deemed to be unfair. I remember being able to drop a ball from shoulder height on some of their greens only to have it roll 50 feet off the green. I once chipped at ball two feet short of the hole at the eighth hole there only to have to come back to my feet. In one US Open held there, a player putted his ball into a water hazard next to the fourth green.

I also played Winged Foot when their greens were at US Open speed and they were almost impossible. That resulted in the highest winning US Open score in the modern era.

Good private club greens usually run around 9-10 and most golfers would find that pretty fast. Average speed at a lot of public facilities tends to be around 8-9 and that is considered medium speed. I would guess that the championship courses that I've played, with the exception of Lopez last October, are running at about 8-9. That's not a bad speed for most golfers.

I played Chula Vista this morning and I've played fairways that are faster than those greens. In fact, the only thing slower than the greens was the two groups in front of us.

I'm not happy about greens that are that slow, but I can't tolerate taking two hours to play nine holes on an easy executive. There are some people that just don't belong on a golf course.

You should have seen Egret yesterday. The tees putted faster than the greens, the fairways putted faster than the greens, the rough putted faster than the greens, the sand traps putted faster than the greens, and a ball 2 feet underwater putted faster than the greens. I suspect a cauldron of molten steel would putt faster than the greens:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

I had a putt of 5 feet on #7 with so much sand on the green I was tempted to use a SW. Took 22 putts on Egret, I 4 putted from 40 feet never reaching the hole, and my partner, who is a much better putter than I, had 23!!!!

[dewilson58]

You should have seen Egret yesterday. The tees putted faster than the greens, the fairways putted faster than the greens, the rough putted faster than the greens, the sand traps putted faster than the greens, and a ball 2 feet underwater putted faster than the greens. I suspect a cauldron of molten steel would putt faster than the greens.

!

Trying to read between the lines.................are you saying they're not running 9 to 11 on the Stimp??

Please clarify.

:jester:

[golfing eagles]

Trying to read between the lines.................are you saying they're not running 9 to 11 on the Stimp??

Please clarify.

:jester:

My best guess: Osprey was running 7-8 and Egret 6, maybe 5. But they dumped about 5 tons of sand on the Egret greens Monday

[It's Hot There]

Gotta agree. Golf has fought the elitist image enough.

Agree. Agree.

[John_W]

You should have seen Egret yesterday. The tees putted faster than the greens, the fairways putted faster than the greens, the rough putted faster than the greens, the sand traps putted faster than the greens, and a ball 2 feet underwater putted faster than the greens. I suspect a cauldron of molten steel would putt faster than the greens:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:



Thanks for the heads up, I was going to put in for Egret on Friday since they showed aerification was last done on May 19th. The past two weeks I played Cane Garden (Jacaranda to Allamada) and Havana (Hemingway only) and the greens were pretty good at both courses.

I see posters always making reference to a money issue for TV golf courses. These courses receive paying customers 12 months of the year and for six of those months they get top dollar. I came from Maryland and we usually never played past early November and started back early April, that's about 8 months of income for those courses. They also don't get top dollar green fees except on the weekends. That 8 days a month out of 30 days, the November to April higher green fees is a lot longer and the six month summer fees should be like gravy. Just saying.

[golfing eagles]

Thanks for the heads up, I was going to put in for Egret on Friday since they showed aerification was last done on May 19th. The past two weeks I played Cane Garden (Jacaranda to Allamada) and Havana (Hemingway only) and the greens were pretty good at both courses.

I see posters always making reference to a money issue for TV golf courses. These courses receive paying customers 12 months of the year and for six of those months they get top dollar. I came from Maryland and we usually never played past early November and started back early April, that's about 8 months of income for those courses. They also don't get top dollar green fees except on the weekends. That 8 days a month out of 30 days, the November to April higher green fees is a lot longer and the six month summer fees should be like gravy. Just saying.

With all due respect to KCRaz, I'm not one of the greens condition whiners. I don't think the greenskeepers are out there in the sun all day trying to make bad conditions. I only picked on Egret because it really was pretty bad---considering 5 days earlier they were much better. Bonifay was in decent shape and Belle Glade was much better last week than it had been. Havana and Mallory are fine, haven't played Cane Garden or Palmer recently. I think the main problem with the courses south of 466A was that they were aerated during the drought while most of the rain hit the northern end of TV, then 10 days later the deluge began. It has to be real hard to deal with that kind of fluctuation in weather

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

WOW.

If they pay, they belong.

So as long as they pay, they have a right to take huge divots and not replace or fill them? They can take swings on the greens with their wedges, they can drive carts in the bunkers and onto the greens? Can they go into bunkers and not rake them?Can they hold up everyone else on the golf course?

When I say they don't belong on the golf course I mean that until they understand the rules and etiquette and have at least a minimum degree of proficiency they shouldn't be allowed on a golf course.

When I see some of the violations of etiquette on these courses and people not taking care of the course I do a slow burn. When I see people out there that whiff three times before they make contact and then roll the ball thirty yards along the ground I wonder how they are getting any enjoyment out of being there. When I see a husband trying to teach his wife to play when he can barely play himself and they are holding up everyone behind them, I say they don't belong on a golf course.

If it were up to me it would be mandatory that everyone attends the Good Golf School before being allowed to play. Then I would have the ambassadors monitoring the players so that they follow the etiquette of the game and keep their place on the golf course.

Yes, anyone that pays evidently has a right to be on the course, but they don't have the right to ruin the course and ruin the day of the people behind them.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

With all due respect to KCRaz, I'm not one of the greens condition whiners. I don't think the greenskeepers are out there in the sun all day trying to make bad conditions.

Ummm... you don't have to try to make bad conditions. It takes effort, knowledge and work to make good conditions. Bad conditions can be achieved by doing nothing.

[kcrazorbackfan]

:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Care to play for a little $$$$
Black tees, no strokes

:MOJE_whot::MOJE_whot::MOJE_whot:

Don't mind it one bit.

I'm just really tired of hearing everyone use the excuse of bad fairways, bad greens or bad whatever on the championship courses to shooting high scores or making too many putts. When is enough, enough in bad mouthing the courses, bad mouthing the maintenance companies and bad mouthing the greens superintendent?

The people that abuse the R/A tags and park next to the greens and drive between the bunkers and the greens, the people that fail to fix ball marks and fill their divots, the people that pull up to the tees and pull off the cartpaths to gain that 1 1/2 foot advantage, the people that ignore cart path only conditions and drive out on the fairways, the people that cut the ropes on areas marked off - that's what the complaints should be directed towards.

If you don't like the courses or conditions, move to your place of nirvana. If you don't like the courses or conditions, play somewhere else, ALL THE TIME, outside the bubble. If you don't like the courses or conditions because it hurts your game, get better.

Good lord, enough is freaking enough.

[DonH57]

So as long as they pay, they have a right to take huge divots and not replace or fill them? They can take swings on the greens with their wedges, they can drive carts in the bunkers and onto the greens? Can they go into bunkers and not rake them?Can they hold up everyone else on the golf course?

When I say they don't belong on the golf course I mean that until they understand the rules and etiquette and have at least a minimum degree of proficiency they shouldn't be allowed on a golf course.

When I see some of the violations of etiquette on these courses and people not taking care of the course I do a slow burn. When I see people out there that whiff three times before they make contact and then roll the ball thirty yards along the ground I wonder how they are getting any enjoyment out of being there. When I see a husband trying to teach his wife to play when he can barely play himself and they are holding up everyone behind them, I say they don't belong on a golf course.

If it were up to me it would be mandatory that everyone attends the Good Golf School before being allowed to play. Then I would have the ambassadors monitoring the players so that they follow the etiquette of the game and keep their place on the golf course.

Yes, anyone that pays evidently has a right to be on the course, but they don't have the right to ruin the course and ruin the day of the people behind them.

Nothing burns me more than seeing wedge marks or hacks on the greens or trash everwhere except in the trash cans provided.:mad:

[CatskillBill]

Don't mind it one bit.

I'm just really tired of hearing everyone use the excuse of bad fairways, bad greens or bad whatever on the championship courses to shooting high scores or making too many putts. When is enough, enough in bad mouthing the courses, bad mouthing the maintenance companies and bad mouthing the greens superintendent?

The people that abuse the R/A tags and park next to the greens and drive between the bunkers and the greens, the people that fail to fix ball marks and fill their divots, the people that pull up to the tees and pull off the cartpaths to gain that 1 1/2 foot advantage, the people that ignore cart path only conditions and drive out on the fairways, the people that cut the ropes on areas marked off - that's what the complaints should be directed towards.

If you don't like the courses or conditions, move to your place of nirvana. If you don't like the courses or conditions, play somewhere else, ALL THE TIME, outside the bubble. If you don't like the courses or conditions because it hurts your game, get better.

Good lord, enough is freaking enough.


We have the right to comment on course conditions both good and bad. That's the point of a forum. We can get a heads up on the good, the bad, and the ugly. Go play Seminole on Belle Glade and tell me how great the greens are. There's no excuse for those kinds of conditions on a champion course. It has nothing to do with players abusing the course.

[ColdNoMore]

We have the right to comment on course conditions both good and bad. That's the point of a forum. We can get a heads up on the good, the bad, and the ugly. Go play Seminole on Belle Glade and tell me how great the greens are. There's no excuse for those kinds of conditions on a champion course. It has nothing to do with players abusing the course.

:BigApplause:

[kcrazorbackfan]

We have the right to comment on course conditions both good and bad. That's the point of a forum. We can get a heads up on the good, the bad, and the ugly. Go play Seminole on Belle Glade and tell me how great the greens are. There's no excuse for those kinds of conditions on a champion course. It has nothing to do with players abusing the course.

Complain all you want; some of you really seem to be in your element by constantly doing so. BTW, have any of you constant complainers and know it all agronomist applied to GMS for a greens superintendent position or even voiced your complaints directly to GMS? Didn't think so.

Seminole must not be too bad; went by there tonight and the course had players everywhere. I suppose those players don't have to play Pebble Beach conditions or Augusta conditions to enjoy the game. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

[bbrizendine]

I'll play you for a 100 a hole with 5 clubs.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Complain all you want; some of you really seem to be in your element by constantly doing so. BTW, have any of you constant complainers and know it all agronomist applied to GMS for a greens superintendent position or even voiced your complaints directly to GMS? Didn't think so.

Seminole must not be too bad; went by there tonight and the course had players everywhere. I suppose those players don't have to play Pebble Beach conditions or Augusta conditions to enjoy the game. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I've actually played Pebble Beach when it was in terrible condition.

Sometimes it's good and sometimes not so good. It gets a tremendous amount of play and not everyone who plays it is an experienced golfer that takes care of the course. But just the traffic alone makes it a nightmare to maintain.

[ColdNoMore]

I'll play you for a 100 a hole with 5 clubs.

Hmmm, which set of tees? :D








(yes, this is just a hunch)

[drcar]

I've actually played Pebble Beach when it was in terrible condition.

Sometimes it's good and sometimes not so good. It gets a tremendous amount of play and not everyone who plays it is an experienced golfer that takes care of the course. But just the traffic alone makes it a nightmare to maintain.

Well finally a factual statement "It gets a tremendous amount of play and not everyone who plays it is an experienced golfer that takes care of the course. But just the traffic alone makes it a nightmare to maintain." And do you think the amount on play here can cause the same problems. We had 3 courses do 100,000 rounds each last year. Don't you think that takes a toll. And we don't pay pebble rates! JUST SAYING

[ColdNoMore]

Well finally a factual statement "It gets a tremendous amount of play and not everyone who plays it is an experienced golfer that takes care of the course. But just the traffic alone makes it a nightmare to maintain." And do you think the amount on play here can cause the same problems. We had 3 courses do 100,000 rounds each last year. Don't you think that takes a toll. And we don't pay pebble rates! JUST SAYING

Sorry, but there are lots of muni's around that get as much, if not more, play than our courses...and are in much better shape.

Here's but just one (Arroyo del Oso) and it's in Abq. ...which is not exactly known for having excess precipitation.

Paa-Ko-Ridge Golf Course - Golf.com | GOLF.com (http://www.golf.com/courses-and-travel/paa-ko-ridge-golf-course)

And although Arroyo del Oso gets more play 140,000 annual rounds for the 27 holes than any golf course in the state, you won't find many public courses in better condition tee to green.

Of those 140,000 rounds, about 85% are on the primary 18 holes...not the 'Dam Nine.'

And oh yeah, it is now all the way up to about $30 on the weekends...cart included.

There's no way around the fact that the overall poor condition of our courses, is primarily a function of how they're run and maintained...not a lack of money/water or too many rounds.

JUST SAYING.

[genecruey]

Right again you are

[genecruey]

You are so correct. Choices, we have them. They are pay to play so best ways is to not play on course that you are not satisfied with.

[Carl in Tampa]

When I saw the title I thought you were sampling some bad Southern food.

Now, I discover it is about golf and I have nothing to add.

[Grill Meister]

Yes, I agree with you. The Villages courses are not in the best of shape and I believe that some of the techniques being used are not bringing about the desired result of producing championship conditioned courses. When we moved here 12 years ago, GMS (Golf Management Systems, which runs and manages all of the courses....incidentally the executive courses are owned by the CDD in which it is located, but GMS still manages them) had hired a professional golf greens keeping company, One Source, to take care and manage all the courses. One source was doing an excellent job and the courses were great. GMS started dictating to One Source when, how and at what cost they should take care of the courses. One Source ain't here no more. GMS has now hired "lawn" companies to take care of the courses. The "lawn" companies understand mowing but not proper course management.....they aerify the fairways and greens, sand the greens, fertilize, mow and overseed. GMS is in The Villages to make profits and the lower the costs of doing business, the greater the profits, and they really don't care about immaculate, championship quality courses......They have a captive audience here, why should they? What can be done about it? Probably, not a darned thing........alas and alack.

[spotted1]

I will be moving to TV later this month. I rented for May and June. I must say that I have never played courses with worse greens and some of the "champion ship" courses had terrible fairways. Played a course in the Phoenix area today and the fairways and greens were immaculate and this is the desert. Paid $25 and included lunch.

[Mikeod]

...incidentally the executive courses are owned by the CDD in which it is located, but GMS still manages them)
I don't think that's true. The developer sold the amenities, which includes the executive golf courses, to the district (VCCDD and SLCDD), not to the residential CDDs where the courses are located.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

they really don't care about immaculate, championship quality courses......They have a captive audience here, why should they? What can be done about it? Probably, not a darned thing........alas and alack.


You're probably correct. I used to play a lot of pool here and a lot of the good pool players would complain about the tables. We have a resident who is an expert in pool table maintenance and offered to do professional set up on several of the rec center's table for the cost of materials only. The response from TV was that it's not worth the money because these are only recreational tables and we're not having professional tournaments here. I suspect that they have the same attitude about the golf courses. They probably figure that 95% of the people who play the executives don't know the difference and they're probably right. The regulation courses (they're really not championship courses) are a different story because they receive income directly from them. Income can be directly related to the condition.
The execs are basically paid for by a third party. Third party payment almost always leads to poor services and products.

[Bay Kid]

I will be moving to TV later this month. I rented for May and June. I must say that I have never played courses with worse greens and some of the "champion ship" courses had terrible fairways. Played a course in the Phoenix area today and the fairways and greens were immaculate and this is the desert. Paid $25 and included lunch.

Still moving to TV with all the bad golf courses?

[stan the man]

Still moving to TV with all the bad golf courses?

Are you a golfer ???

[Love2Swim]

Think of Scotland. Play the course the way it lies, it isn't supposed to be easy.

I suppose that means it is desirable to have poorly maintained greens. It increases the difficulty of the game.

Thank you. Your logic aligns with mine.

[Love2Swim]

:BigApplause:


:agree:


I don't expect the courses here to match upscale resort courses, but I would expect them to be substantially above the average municipal...and they aren't. :ohdear:

I agree.

[Love2Swim]

The only way to change the situation in my humble opinion is by hurting them in the pocketbook.. I for one take every chance I have I give a one star rating on the courses in the villages. Trip Advisor is one example. There are numerous golf sites and places for recommendations and reviews I will and continue to. belittle the conditions of the courses here in the villages. I know some of the people that drink the Kool-Aid will not agree with me and the moderator will probably delete this post



As someone else mentioned, this problem has been going on for years. I've heard a myriad of excuses - money, lack of rain, poor maintenance companies, you name it. They just can't seem to get their act together. We've given them plenty of chances to fix things and they don't. Time to try a new approach besides complaining to the higher ups.

I see nothing wrong with telling the truth i.e. post honest reviews on Trip Advisor and golf course websites about the golf course conditions as we find them. If people are looking to buy homes here, and they start reading reviews online, or thru TOTV, they will get an honest look at what they are buying into.

[Indy-Guy]

I have been away for 2 months and returned a week ago. In that week I have played 3 country club courses and this is what I found in my opinion.

Cane Garden 18 holes played Allamanda to Hibiscus --- Perhaps the best condition that I have seen it in a very long time. I might even say ever and I have lived here since 2005. Fairways and greens by far the best I have seen them. The tee boxes needed some help. Both nines were in equal condition.

Mallory Hill 18 holes played Virginia to Amelia --- also in very good condition greens had recently been punched but rolled very good since holes were small and partially healed. Fairways were very good. Tee boxes needed some help. Both nines were in equal condition.

Played Havana 18 holes played Kilimanjaro to Kenya --- Not in as good a condition as Cane or Mallory but not bad. When I left here in May Mallory was in the worst condition that I have ever seen it. Now the fairways are good the greens weren't close to what Cane and Mallory are and the tee boxes were about the same as Cane and Mallory needed help. Both nines were equal condition.

As to the tee boxes I play the white tees which are perhaps the most played tee boxes on The Villages country club courses.

I would like for people that are complaining or praising the conditions to please state what course or courses they are referring to.

The above is my opinion.

[John_W]

We played Egret at Evans Prairie this afternoon. We didn't have to worry about slow play, there was only a foursome on our nine besides our threesome, they were in front by four holes and we caught them on the ninth hole, by then it didn't matter. The course was the best I've seen it since it opened, fairway, greens, everything was nice. I just wish it wasn't so hot, I was soaking wet when I was done and it was only 9 holes, for $12 it's a great bargain.

[ColdNoMore]

Yes, I agree with you. The Villages courses are not in the best of shape and I believe that some of the techniques being used are not bringing about the desired result of producing championship conditioned courses. When we moved here 12 years ago, GMS (Golf Management Systems, which runs and manages all of the courses....incidentally the executive courses are owned by the CDD in which it is located, but GMS still manages them) had hired a professional golf greens keeping company, One Source, to take care and manage all the courses. One source was doing an excellent job and the courses were great. GMS started dictating to One Source when, how and at what cost they should take care of the courses. One Source ain't here no more. GMS has now hired "lawn" companies to take care of the courses. The "lawn" companies understand mowing but not proper course management.....they aerify the fairways and greens, sand the greens, fertilize, mow and overseed. GMS is in The Villages to make profits and the lower the costs of doing business, the greater the profits, and they really don't care about immaculate, championship quality courses......They have a captive audience here, why should they? What can be done about it? Probably, not a darned thing........alas and alack.


"Alas" and "alack."...excellent. :BigApplause:

[ColdNoMore]

Still moving to TV with all the bad golf courses?

A lot of us avid golfers moved here not because of the high quality and maintenance of the courses, but because there is a plethora of choices in The Villages...that are accessible from our driveways with our own golf carts.

Even a mediocre course, in so-so condition (which pretty much describes the majority of misnamed 'championship' courses here)...still beats loading up the car and doing the whole bag drop, cart rental (without sunbrella's/hard doors) and shoe changing in the parking lot routine...IMHO. :shrug:

[CatskillBill]

Yes, Evans was good today, although they're killing off the fringe for some reason, Cane was in the best shape in years last week, Glenview was nice last Wednesday, Lopez was all right, and Palmer was in nice shape too. All that comes to an end with the aerification. Have to pick and choose your courses carefully now.


Championship Courses Aerification:

Glenview Champions May 1 August 3
Cane Garden May 2 August 5
Tierra De Sol May 4 July 31
Bonifay May 5
Havana May 16 August18
Hacienda Hills May 16 July 24
Palmer Legends May 19 August 15
Evans Prairie May 19 August 18
Lopez Legacy May 31 September 1
Belle Glade May 31 August 31
Mallory Hill June 2 August 29
Orange Blossom Hills June 2 August 28

[mperzow]

couldn't agree more with your comment.....I live in a very upscale golf country club in Boca Raton and planing a move to the villages. The reason $$$$$
course is PGA championship with a complete makeover last year. Magnificent greens...also did club house a few year ago 11.5M course cost $6.5M
only 400 homes you do the math. I will live gladly with the greens here

[Challenger]

Yes, I agree with you. The Villages courses are not in the best of shape and I believe that some of the techniques being used are not bringing about the desired result of producing championship conditioned courses. When we moved here 12 years ago, GMS (Golf Management Systems, which runs and manages all of the courses....incidentally the executive courses are owned by the CDD in which it is located, but GMS still manages them) had hired a professional golf greens keeping company, One Source, to take care and manage all the courses. One source was doing an excellent job and the courses were great. GMS started dictating to One Source when, how and at what cost they should take care of the courses. One Source ain't here no more. GMS has now hired "lawn" companies to take care of the courses. The "lawn" companies understand mowing but not proper course management.....they aerify the fairways and greens, sand the greens, fertilize, mow and overseed. GMS is in The Villages to make profits and the lower the costs of doing business, the greater the profits, and they really don't care about immaculate, championship quality courses......They have a captive audience here, why should they? What can be done about it? Probably, not a darned thing........alas and alack.

"One who buys , based on price alone , deserves what he gets" An idea expressed by many wise minds throughout history and apropos this issue.