Analysis: Would the U.S. benefit from a merit-based immigration system?

[wjboyer1]

Analysis: Would the U.S. benefit from a merit-based immigration system? | PBS NewsHour (http://www.pbs.org/newshour/making-sense/analysis-u-s-benefit-merit-based-immigration-system/)

[Don Baldwin]

Not any more...it WOULD have 50 years ago when we started excluding white immigration in favor of minorities.

If we did...America would be white and Asian...nobody else COULD make the cut. They are NOT us.

[wjboyer1]

not any more...it would have 50 years ago when we started excluding white immigration in favor of minorities.

If we did...america would be white and asian...nobody else could make the cut. They are not us.

70734
70735

[Carl in Tampa]

Analysis: Would the U.S. benefit from a merit-based immigration system? | PBS NewsHour (http://www.pbs.org/newshour/making-sense/analysis-u-s-benefit-merit-based-immigration-system/)

Interestingly, this author (published by the Public Broadcasting System) acknowledges the success of the Canada Merit System upon which the American proposal is modeled, but still concludes that low-skilled immigrants should continue to be admitted, with or without a points system.

The sponsors of the American proposal argue that bringing in low-skilled permanent immigrants (we are not talking about seasonal, migrant farm workers) will take jobs from Americans who are at the bottom of the income scale.

While waiting to see the actual proposed law, I tend to support the concept of the Merit System. By the way, virtually no one reading this posting could pass the screening to become a Canadian citizen.

Carl in Tampa

[Carl in Tampa]

70735 (Statue of Liberty picture.)

The poem does not appear on the Statue of Liberty or on the Pedestal. It is not an official part of the Statue.

There is a display inside the Pedestal which honors several people who contributed to the fund raising effort to pay for the Pedestal. The French only gave us the Statue.

One of the fund raisers was Emma Lazarus. She is honored with a display inside the Pedestal. She wrote the poem in question to help raise money for the Pedestal, so her display includes a copy of the poem.

The plaque with the poem clearly states that it is place there in HER honor.

Carl in Tampa

[Allegiance]

So few here have actually had extensive interaction with the immigration system.

[Ralphy]

If these restrictions were in place, would your ancestors been allowed to immigrate? I know that my grandparents would not have because they did not speak English. However, before I was born, they learned to speak English and became proud citizens.

[Carl in Tampa]

If these restrictions were in place, would your ancestors been allowed to immigrate? I know that my grandparents would not have because they did not speak English. However, before I was born, they learned to speak English and became proud citizens.

My ancestors may or may not have met the standards. I do not know about their facility with English, nor if they had a job waiting when they arrived. I'm fairly confident that they were prepared to be self-sufficient because there was no welfare system when they arrived.

You see, they arrived in the mid-1700s, before the United States became a nation. (I have an ancestor who fought in the Revolutionary War.) They came from the German speaking (East) side of Switzerland. They came through the Port of Philadelphia and moved out along the southern Pennsylvania border. You may have heard of the Pennsylvania Dutch.

Lots of them are still there, as well as down in Virginia, in West Virginia, and in Ohio, where they initially settled. (I had relatives who fought on both sides in the Civil War.) These days they are scattered all over the United States.

But, that was a different era. I support the Merit System for our current situation.

Carl in Tampa

[Carl in Tampa]

If these restrictions were in place, would your ancestors been allowed to immigrate? I know that my grandparents would not have because they did not speak English. However, before I was born, they learned to speak English and became proud citizens.

I'll tell you what I do know.

I couldn't qualify to immigrate to Canada at this point in my life. (Not that I would want to.)

Carl in Tampa

[Don Baldwin]

(Statue of Liberty picture.)

The poem does not appear on the Statue of Liberty or on the Pedestal. It is not an official part of the Statue.

There is a display inside the Pedestal which honors several people who contributed to the fund raising effort to pay for the Pedestal. The French only gave us the Statue.

One of the fund raisers was Emma Lazarus. She is honored with a display inside the Pedestal. She wrote the poem in question to help raise money for the Pedestal, so her display includes a copy of the poem.

The plaque with the poem clearly states that it is place there in HER honor.

The poem was written in the 1800s and at that time the immigrants were almost exclusively from Europe...white Europeans were the people spoken about in that poem. It certainly wasn't about bringing in blacks.

So few here have actually had extensive interaction with the immigration system.

So few here have actually had extensive interaction with the inner city blacks that they so fervently defend.

[larbud]

All I have to say is before oblozo turned Me into the Racist I am today, When conversing with people if the subject ever came up I insisted We didn't need any more poor huddled masses to infiltrate and over run the welfare rolls... saying..

[Allegiance]

All I have to say is before oblozo turned Me into the Racist I am today, When conversing with people if the subject ever came up I insisted We didn't need any more poor huddled masses to infiltrate and over run the welfare rolls... saying..Barry would prefer that you conversate.

[eweissenbach]

All I have to say is before oblozo turned Me into the Racist I am today, When conversing with people if the subject ever came up I insisted We didn't need any more poor huddled masses to infiltrate and over run the welfare rolls... saying..

Hey I see what you did there! You took the first two letters of our previous presidents name and then cleverly added some different letters to indicate your dismissiveness of him. Did you think of that yourself or did Hannity or Limbaugh come up with it and you copied their cleverness? That is kind of like me calling you lardbutt - clever and dismissive.

[leftyf]

There would be no MS-13 gang

[Don Baldwin]

There would be no MS-13 gang

There shouldn't be now either...how the hell do gangs get away with operating indiscriminately like they do? EVERYONE knows who they are...conduct a huge raid and clean them out. House by house rounding up gang members...until eventually, we get them all.

Too Nazi for you?

Sometimes that's what it takes.

The solution isn't letting them run wild.

[eweissenbach]

There shouldn't be now either...how the hell do gangs get away with operating indiscriminately like they do? EVERYONE knows who they are...conduct a huge raid and clean them out. House by house rounding up gang members...until eventually, we get them all.

Too Nazi for you?

Sometimes that's what it takes.

The solution isn't letting them run wild.

You know who they are? You should lead the raid baldy, be the big man you are in your mind.

[Rockyrd]

There shouldn't be now either...how the hell do gangs get away with operating indiscriminately like they do? EVERYONE knows who they are...conduct a huge raid and clean them out. House by house rounding up gang members...until eventually, we get them all.

Too Nazi for you?

Sometimes that's what it takes.

The solution isn't letting them run wild.

These gangs are not a direct result of immigration. Their genisis is mostly economic, and we stopped addressing that.

That does not mean that our country does not need immigration reform...it does.

It, however, must be bi partisan and comprehensive, and not a series of bans, etc.

Problem is, bot the right and left are now being controlled by extremists, not statesman.

No one in the administration is reaching out to begin meaningful conversation, and it has to begin there. Obama did not strongly pursue either, but right up to the conventions, there was a bi partisan movement for the bi partisan approach. That was crumbled in the rhetoric of the campaign.

[Wiotte]

There shouldn't be now either...how the hell do gangs get away with operating indiscriminately like they do? EVERYONE knows who they are...conduct a huge raid and clean them out. House by house rounding up gang members...until eventually, we get them all.

Too Nazi for you?

Sometimes that's what it takes.

The solution isn't letting them run wild.



I agree with you on this one Donny boy. Too Nazi ? Nah

[emoji137]🏼*♂️


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Don Baldwin]

These gangs are not a direct result of immigration. Their genisis is mostly economic, and we stopped addressing that.

That does not mean that our country does not need immigration reform...it does.

It, however, must be bi partisan and comprehensive, and not a series of bans, etc.

Problem is, bot the right and left are now being controlled by extremists, not statesman.

No one in the administration is reaching out to begin meaningful conversation, and it has to begin there. Obama did not strongly pursue either, but right up to the conventions, there was a bi partisan movement for the bi partisan approach. That was crumbled in the rhetoric of the campaign.

Bullsh!t...they're not going out and stealing food or blankets. They're fighting over turf, land, to control. EVERYONE of them can find a bed and a meal if that's what they need. Their mothers collect welfare. Their women are on welfare with their kids. It's NOT economic...STOP believing the propaganda bullsh!t. It's THEM...they DON'T KNOW HOW to be CIVILIZED.

[rubicon]

The specific question asked ( the thread's title) is

"Analysis: Would the U.S. benefit from a merit-based immigration system?" operative words would the US benefit

To begin with its my view that illegal immigration is well illegal and so I am against illegals entering the country,

Secondly we are talking about today's America and not the America of our forefathers.

Third like any national issue there are competing voices

Analysis. Trump's bill will cut immigrants coming to America because he restricts family immigration and proposes employer-sponsored green car point system

One benefit would be immigrants who come here speaking English and with the necessary life skills and employment which will be a benefit to employers and to taxpayers (twofold) because they will not have to support these immigrants and these immigrants become taxpayer

The downside is that by restricting legal immigration this bill may actually resort to more illegal immigration

Pick your poison,

Personal Best Regards:

[eweissenbach]

The specific question asked ( the thread's title) is

"Analysis: Would the U.S. benefit from a merit-based immigration system?" operative words would the US benefit

To begin with its my view that illegal immigration is well illegal and so I am against illegals entering the country,

Secondly we are talking about today's America and not the America of our forefathers.

Third like any national issue there are competing voices

Analysis. Trump's bill will cut immigrants coming to America because he restricts family immigration and proposes employer-sponsored green car point system

One benefit would be immigrants who come here speaking English and with the necessary life skills and employment which will be a benefit to employers and to taxpayers (twofold) because they will not have to support these immigrants and these immigrants become taxpayer

The downside is that by restricting legal immigration this bill may actually resort to more illegal immigration

Pick your poison,

Personal Best Regards:

Here are the problems as I see them. Unskilled immigrants, legal or illegal currently do much needed work that would otherwise either go undone, or employer would have to pay increased wages to attract labor. How many Americans do you know who would be interested in going From place to place, following the harvest to pick produce for minimum wage? Say goodbye to low prices for produce.
If only skilled workers are allowed in they will compete for jobs currently coveted by many Americans, which would cause those jobs to either be filled by immigrants, or the wages lowered by supply and demand. A majority of trump supporters do not understand these disruptive market forces and support any immigration ban mostly out of racial or religious bias. Further, illegal immigrants are ineligible for government social welfare benefits.

[Rockyrd]

I still see no way to have an immigration policy in this country without bi partisan discussion and agreement.

Sure, whomever has control can pass single issue legislation....ban somebody, reduce immigration as a whole, build a wall, all of those are items for discussion in a comprehensive legislation that should be considered.

When it is done with the EO's for example, the next president can just sign a piece of paper and change it.

We need a national debate or discussion on this with everyone involved.

Both parties have pretty much shut out the other...that is just plain stupid from my point of view.

For 6 years or so, the Republicans let the Democratic minority in congress simply float, and now the Democrats are leaving the Republicans out to dry at every chance they can take.

We need the President to set the example......reach out...use the bully pulpit to get people talking. That is what leaders do.

I am telling you...this piece meal for political purposes will never work.

[Carl in Tampa]

Here are the problems as I see them. Unskilled immigrants, legal or illegal currently do much needed work that would otherwise either go undone, or employer would have to pay increased wages to attract labor. How many Americans do you know who would be interested in going From place to place, following the harvest to pick produce for minimum wage? Say goodbye to low prices for produce.

If only skilled workers are allowed in they will compete for jobs currently coveted by many Americans, which would cause those jobs to either be filled by immigrants, or the wages lowered by supply and demand. A majority of trump supporters do not understand these disruptive market forces and support any immigration ban mostly out of racial or religious bias. Further, illegal immigrants are ineligible for government social welfare benefits.

I guess it is worth repeating one more time that the proposed law is about permanent legal immigrants and is not about seasonal migrant farm workers who are allowed into the country to harvest crops, but are not on a path to citizenship. Seasonal migrant farm workers enter, legally, under a H-2A Visa.

There are two reasons for selecting English speaking immigrants with job skills, as the proposed law specifies.

1. One is that they do not go on welfare after they arrive, so do not swell our welfare rolls as many legal immigrants do now.

2. The other is that they do not displace our lowest wage earners, pushing these earners onto our welfare rolls.

Your concern about legal immigrants with job skills competing with our citizens with similar job skills is touching, but you have ignored that the plan is also to authorize half as many legal immigrants as is currently authorized. So this is more like a plan to replace retiring skilled workers rather than displacing those who are job seekers or currently employed.

Your remark about an "immigration ban" seems out of place in a thread discussing a proposed law on legal immigration, not a ban, and has a gratuitous smear about racial and religious bias.

Carl in Tampa

[eweissenbach]

I still see no way to have an immigration policy in this country without bi partisan discussion and agreement.

Sure, whomever has control can pass single issue legislation....ban somebody, reduce immigration as a whole, build a wall, all of those are items for discussion in a comprehensive legislation that should be considered.

When it is done with the EO's for example, the next president can just sign a piece of paper and change it.

We need a national debate or discussion on this with everyone involved.

Both parties have pretty much shut out the other...that is just plain stupid from my point of view.

For 6 years or so, the Republicans let the Democratic minority in congress simply float, and now the Democrats are leaving the Republicans out to dry at every chance they can take.

We need the President to set the example......reach out...use the bully pulpit to get people talking. That is what leaders do.

I am telling you...this piece meal for political purposes will never work.

This could be reposted for every issue that is brought up.

[Carl in Tampa]

Originally Posted by Guest
There would be no MS-13 gang

There shouldn't be now either...how the hell do gangs get away with operating indiscriminately like they do? EVERYONE knows who they are...conduct a huge raid and clean them out. House by house rounding up gang members...until eventually, we get them all.

These gangs are not a direct result of immigration. Their genisis is mostly economic, and we stopped addressing that.


I must disagree. Note that the thread of the conversation is not about gangs in general, but about MS-13.

Although reputedly being formed in Los Angeles, MS-13 arguably has roots in El Salvador. In fact the S in MS-13 stands for Salvador, and trucha, which translates roughly into street smarts. The gang was formed by immigrants who had fled El Salvador's long and brutal civil war. Other members came from Honduras, Guatemala and Mexico.

And now, with the end of the Obama administration, the new law enforcement emphasis on apprehending and deporting MS-13 members clearly discloses that the bulk of the members of this gang are in the United States due to illegal immigration.

If this were not true we would not be able to deport them.

Carl in Tampa

[wjboyer1]

the specific question asked ( the thread's title) is

"analysis: Would the u.s. Benefit from a merit-based immigration system?" operative words would the us benefit

to begin with its my view that illegal immigration is well illegal and so i am against illegals entering the country,

secondly we are talking about today's america and not the america of our forefathers.

Third like any national issue there are competing voices

analysis. Trump's bill will cut immigrants coming to america because he restricts family immigration and proposes employer-sponsored green car point system

one benefit would be immigrants who come here speaking english and with the necessary life skills and employment which will be a benefit to employers and to taxpayers (twofold) because they will not have to support these immigrants and these immigrants become taxpayer

the downside is that by restricting legal immigration this bill may actually resort to more illegal immigration

pick your poison,

personal best regards:

70761

[Rockyrd]

Originally Posted by Guest
There would be no MS-13 gang




I must disagree. Note that the thread of the conversation is not about gangs in general, but about MS-13.

Although reputedly being formed in Los Angeles, MS-13 arguably has roots in El Salvador. In fact the S in MS-13 stands for Salvador, and trucha, which translates roughly into street smarts. The gang was formed by immigrants who had fled El Salvador's long and brutal civil war. Other members came from Honduras, Guatemala and Mexico.

And now, with the end of the Obama administration, the new law enforcement emphasis on apprehending and deporting MS-13 members clearly discloses that the bulk of the members of this gang are in the United States due to illegal immigration.

If this were not true we would not be able to deport them.

Carl in Tampa

You quote me partially without addressing my point and your quoting of me since it was selective, is out of context.

I am aware of the history of this gang, but my point on this issue is and remains.

We cannot simply BY EACH ADMINISTRATION submit EOs that fir our political position. You can do a lot with an EO and it lasts until the next administration.

We must have legislation, on a bi partisan basis that afpddresses this. It is not easy...I think Reagan once said about immigration.."tell me what to do and I will do it"...,it is damn hard.

I certainly do not oppose any actions being taken, and have tried to be clear on that, but it will last until a new party, or a new administration with different views.

EO's are a terrible way to run a country in any subject.

I simply suggest , nobody much looks at the economic conditions that allows these gangs to get a footing and to thrive. THAT needs to be addressed WITHIN A COMPREHENSIVE IMMIGRATION bill, that addresses it within the confines of immigration.

We continue to chase our tail. We never, and since I sense an anti OBama vibe here, I am speaking of both his administration and Trump. My biggest complaint.....well....the President must understand he is President and not a candidate. He, any President is supposed to lead, and use his bully pulpit and the power of the office, not to continue to campaign but to reach out and bring sides together to solve the COUNTRY'S problems, not to continue campaign bashing.

That is why it is a hard job...That is why I speak of honesty and integrity. You must get people to trust you, ALL AMERICANS. If this job was easy...none of this matters, but it is hard. It is not as simple as being projected here.

Folks make this sound simple..it's not. None of this replaces a USA immigration policy and it seems to me we are not even working on one.

Maybe I am more correct than I thought when I say both parties have gone extreme and neither cares about anything but their party.

To those who slam government as if not needed, I will tell you...without NATIONAL legislation, we are doomed to swapping EO's, and not just immigration.

To address ms13, as you know, there is some activity in Tampa and I spent time on the streets speaking, not with hard core members, but others with the same economic and social problems. We keep ignoring that, we are doomed.

[Carl in Tampa]

You quote me partially without addressing my point and your quoting of me since it was selective, is out of context.

I am aware of the history of this gang, but my point on this issue is and remains.

We cannot simply BY EACH ADMINISTRATION submit EOs that fir our political position. You can do a lot with an EO and it lasts until the next administration.

We must have legislation, on a bi partisan basis that afpddresses this. It is not easy...I think Reagan once said about immigration.."tell me what to do and I will do it"...,it is damn hard.

I certainly do not oppose any actions being taken, and have tried to be clear on that, but it will last until a new party, or a new administration with different views.

EO's are a terrible way to run a country in any subject.

I simply suggest , nobody much looks at the economic conditions that allows these gangs to get a footing and to thrive. THAT needs to be addressed WITHIN A COMPREHENSIVE IMMIGRATION bill, that addresses it within the confines of immigration.

We continue to chase our tail. We never, and since I sense an anti OBama vibe here, I am speaking of both his administration and Trump. My biggest complaint.....well....the President must understand he is President and not a candidate. He, any President is supposed to lead, and use his bully pulpit and the power of the office, not to continue to campaign but to reach out and bring sides together to solve the COUNTRY'S problems, not to continue campaign bashing.

That is why it is a hard job...That is why I speak of honesty and integrity. You must get people to trust you, ALL AMERICANS. If this job was easy...none of this matters, but it is hard. It is not as simple as being projected here.

Folks make this sound simple..it's not. None of this replaces a USA immigration policy and it seems to me we are not even working on one.

Maybe I am more correct than I thought when I say both parties have gone extreme and neither cares about anything but their party.

To those who slam government as if not needed, I will tell you...without NATIONAL legislation, we are doomed to swapping EO's, and not just immigration.

To address ms13, as you know, there is some activity in Tampa and I spent time on the streets speaking, not with hard core members, but others with the same economic and social problems. We keep ignoring that, we are doomed.

I didn't quote your entire earlier post because the point was the gang MS-13.

Addressing "economic factors" that leads to gang formation is irrelevant in the case of MS-13, because being illegal aliens, THEY DON'T BELONG HERE.

Getting rid of them IS NOT a matter of executive orders. It nèeds only the will to enforce EXISTING LAW.

By the way, "Comprehensive Immigration Reform" has become a code word for "amnesty for everyone who is now here illegally," which is unacceptable.

Carl in Tampa

[Carl in Tampa]

You quote me partially without addressing my point and your quoting of me since it was selective, is out of context.

I am aware of the history of this gang, but my point on this issue is and remains.

We cannot simply BY EACH ADMINISTRATION submit EOs that fir our political position. You can do a lot with an EO and it lasts until the next administration.

We must have legislation, on a bi partisan basis that afpddresses this. It is not easy...I think Reagan once said about immigration.."tell me what to do and I will do it"...,it is damn hard.

I certainly do not oppose any actions being taken, and have tried to be clear on that, but it will last until a new party, or a new administration with different views.

EO's are a terrible way to run a country in any subject.

I simply suggest , nobody much looks at the economic conditions that allows these gangs to get a footing and to thrive. THAT needs to be addressed WITHIN A COMPREHENSIVE IMMIGRATION bill, that addresses it within the confines of immigration.

We continue to chase our tail. We never, and since I sense an anti OBama vibe here, I am speaking of both his administration and Trump. My biggest complaint.....well....the President must understand he is President and not a candidate. He, any President is supposed to lead, and use his bully pulpit and the power of the office, not to continue to campaign but to reach out and bring sides together to solve the COUNTRY'S problems, not to continue campaign bashing.

That is why it is a hard job...That is why I speak of honesty and integrity. You must get people to trust you, ALL AMERICANS. If this job was easy...none of this matters, but it is hard. It is not as simple as being projected here.

Folks make this sound simple..it's not. None of this replaces a USA immigration policy and it seems to me we are not even working on one.

Maybe I am more correct than I thought when I say both parties have gone extreme and neither cares about anything but their party.

To those who slam government as if not needed, I will tell you...without NATIONAL legislation, we are doomed to swapping EO's, and not just immigration.

To address ms13, as you know, there is some activity in Tampa and I spent time on the streets speaking, not with hard core members, but others with the same economic and social problems. We keep ignoring that, we are doomed.

I didn't quote your entire earlier post because the point was the gang MS-13.

Addressing "economic factors" that leads to gang formation is irrelevant in the case of MS-13, because being illegal aliens, THEY DON'T BELONG HERE.

Getting rid of them IS NOT a matter of executive orders. It nèeds only the will to enforce EXISTING LAW.

By the way, "Comprehensive Immigration Reform" has become a code word for "amnesty for everyone who is now here illegally," which is unacceptable.

Carl in Tampa

[Rockyrd]

I didn't quote your entire earlier post because the point was the gang MS-13.

Addressing "economic factors" that leads to gang formation is irrelevant in the case of MS-13, because being illegal aliens, THEY DON'T BELONG HERE.

Getting rid of them IS NOT a matter of executive orders. It nèeds only the will to enforce EXISTING LAW.

By the way, "Comprehensive Immigration Reform" has become a code word for "amnesty for everyone who is now here illegally," which is unacceptable.

Carl in Tampa

I advocate our leaders making a decision.

If they say, throw everyone out that is not a citizen or is here illegally, so be it.....while I find that economically unfeasible, so be it.

However, they wont and next President will issue Executive Orders to satisfy whatever he construes as his base, whether best for the country of not.

You totally misunderstand me on this. I guess I do not make sense but this circle j#@@ will continue forever if we don't find a leader. As I said, it has frustrated Presidents for years and years, and I never hear a reference to s744, which would NOT throw out all illegal immigrants so you will not agree.

I offer this just for information because the hard right and the hard left refuse to make any concessions and this problem will get worse not better over the years .

This is from an article about what we would look like had this bill not been ignored ........For example...

"First and foremost, the Senate bill would have put the vast majority of the 11.2 million unauthorized immigrants in the United States on a 13-year pathway to citizenship. Anyone who entered the country prior to January 1, 2012, who passed a background check, had not committed a serious crime, and paid fees and a fine could apply to gain registered provisional immigrant, or RPI, status. This is the first step toward permanent residency. Once they gained RPI status, immigrants would be free from the constant worry that they or their family members could be picked up by police, detained, and deported at any time; they also would have the ability to work legally. After 10 years with RPI status, they could adjust to permanent residency and, three years later, become citizens. The bill also included accelerated pathways to citizenship for DREAMers—young undocumented immigrants who came to the United States prior to age 16—and agricultural workers.



2 Years Later, Immigrants Are Still Waiting on Immigration Reform - Center for American Progress (https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/immigration/news/2015/06/24/115835/2-years-later-immigrants-are-still-waiting-on-immigration-reform/)

This is obviously not acceptable to you or others. But I offer this for your consideration....

"“The economic contribution to U.S. GDP of the current unauthorized workers is substantial,” the researchers wrote. “Unauthorized workers may be responsible for 8 to 9 percent of the value-added in agriculture, construction, and leisure and hospitality.”

While that seems dire, the research comes with a major caveat: It assumes that workers from other segments of the economy wouldn’t take the jobs left vacant by the deported immigrants. It’s likely that some Americans and legal immigrants would take on those roles, shifting between industries and jobs to secure new opportunities, although it’s unclear how much appeal those vacant jobs would hold for legal and native-born workers.

Trump’s position on immigration has been formed by the view that undocumented workers are taking wages and jobs away from native-born and legal workers. But policy experts note that his focus on immigration comes at a time when the share of undocumented workers is declining. While the American labor force, comprised of people born in the U.S. or who immigrated legally, has expanded by 2.2 percent since 2009, the number of illegal immigrants has declined from 8.1 million to 8 million over the same time.

It’s also unclear whether unauthorized workers are taking jobs away from Americans. Even within the occupations with the largest shares of undocumented workers -- such as farm laborers, roofers and maintenance workers -- the majority of jobs are filled by native-born workers and legal immigrants. "



How would deporting undocumented workers affect the U.S. economy? - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-5-trillion-hit-from-deporting-undocumented-workers/)

The last estimate for cost for deporting all illegals I heard was in excess of 400 BILLION dollars in new spending.

While I agree....you already violated our law in getting here, you should go....but what you suggest is COSTLY and simplistic.

Do you not see any middle ground or do we simply round up illegals, who may have been here longer than you or I....and simply throw them out ?

By the way, I welcome and enjoy your conversations. I just wish you would broaden your skills to some of the REAL FAKE NEWS and such that permeate this forum. I welcome your defense of Trump on these issues, I love that kind of logical conversation but what sends me off are the lies and uncompromising FALSE defense of the office. I honestly am an American first......the kind of rhetoric on this forum and in many conversations is so far removed from reality and truth and while I am not feeling sorry for myself, I am tired of being called a dummy because I object to labeling of fellow american as if they were cattle and then maligning them as a group, or defending lies from the seat of our government and not just the WH.

So many millions of Republicans, conservative, Democrats, liberals, progressives are real patriots, and the differences in opinion on HOW is not something to be ashamed of or to back away from. I did not believe Goldwater when he said what he said about extremism and I so much fear the move in that direction from both the right and the left.

By the way, I had forgotten but recall the thought by Goldwater that I DID AGREE on....part of the same speech actually...

"We must not see malice in honest differences of opinion, and no matter how great, so long as they are not inconsistent with the pledges we have given to each other in and through our Constitution."

[Carl in Tampa]

I advocate our leaders making a decision.

If they say, throw everyone out that is not a citizen or is here illegally, so be it.....while I find that economically unfeasible, so be it.

However, they wont and next President will issue Executive Orders to satisfy whatever he construes as his base, whether best for the country of not.

You totally misunderstand me on this. I guess I do not make sense but this circle j#@@ will continue forever if we don't find a leader. As I said, it has frustrated Presidents for years and years, and I never hear a reference to s744, which would NOT throw out all illegal immigrants so you will not agree.

I offer this just for information because the hard right and the hard left refuse to make any concessions and this problem will get worse not better over the years .

This is from an article about what we would look like had this bill not been ignored ........For example...

"First and foremost, the Senate bill would have put the vast majority of the 11.2 million unauthorized immigrants in the United States on a 13-year pathway to citizenship. Anyone who entered the country prior to January 1, 2012, who passed a background check, had not committed a serious crime, and paid fees and a fine could apply to gain registered provisional immigrant, or RPI, status. This is the first step toward permanent residency. Once they gained RPI status, immigrants would be free from the constant worry that they or their family members could be picked up by police, detained, and deported at any time; they also would have the ability to work legally. After 10 years with RPI status, they could adjust to permanent residency and, three years later, become citizens. The bill also included accelerated pathways to citizenship for DREAMers—young undocumented immigrants who came to the United States prior to age 16—and agricultural workers.



2 Years Later, Immigrants Are Still Waiting on Immigration Reform - Center for American Progress (https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/immigration/news/2015/06/24/115835/2-years-later-immigrants-are-still-waiting-on-immigration-reform/)

This is obviously not acceptable to you or others. But I offer this for your consideration....

"“The economic contribution to U.S. GDP of the current unauthorized workers is substantial,” the researchers wrote. “Unauthorized workers may be responsible for 8 to 9 percent of the value-added in agriculture, construction, and leisure and hospitality.”

While that seems dire, the research comes with a major caveat: It assumes that workers from other segments of the economy wouldn’t take the jobs left vacant by the deported immigrants. It’s likely that some Americans and legal immigrants would take on those roles, shifting between industries and jobs to secure new opportunities, although it’s unclear how much appeal those vacant jobs would hold for legal and native-born workers.

Trump’s position on immigration has been formed by the view that undocumented workers are taking wages and jobs away from native-born and legal workers. But policy experts note that his focus on immigration comes at a time when the share of undocumented workers is declining. While the American labor force, comprised of people born in the U.S. or who immigrated legally, has expanded by 2.2 percent since 2009, the number of illegal immigrants has declined from 8.1 million to 8 million over the same time.

It’s also unclear whether unauthorized workers are taking jobs away from Americans. Even within the occupations with the largest shares of undocumented workers -- such as farm laborers, roofers and maintenance workers -- the majority of jobs are filled by native-born workers and legal immigrants. "



How would deporting undocumented workers affect the U.S. economy? - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-5-trillion-hit-from-deporting-undocumented-workers/)

The last estimate for cost for deporting all illegals I heard was in excess of 400 BILLION dollars in new spending.

While I agree....you already violated our law in getting here, you should go....but what you suggest is COSTLY and simplistic.

Do you not see any middle ground or do we simply round up illegals, who may have been here longer than you or I....and simply throw them out ?

By the way, I welcome and enjoy your conversations. I just wish you would broaden your skills to some of the REAL FAKE NEWS and such that permeate this forum. I welcome your defense of Trump on these issues, I love that kind of logical conversation but what sends me off are the lies and uncompromising FALSE defense of the office. I honestly am an American first......the kind of rhetoric on this forum and in many conversations is so far removed from reality and truth and while I am not feeling sorry for myself, I am tired of being called a dummy because I object to labeling of fellow american as if they were cattle and then maligning them as a group, or defending lies from the seat of our government and not just the WH.

So many millions of Republicans, conservative, Democrats, liberals, progressives are real patriots, and the differences in opinion on HOW is not something to be ashamed of or to back away from. I did not believe Goldwater when he said what he said about extremism and I so much fear the move in that direction from both the right and the left.

By the way, I had forgotten but recall the thought by Goldwater that I DID AGREE on....part of the same speech actually...

"We must not see malice in honest differences of opinion, and no matter how great, so long as they are not inconsistent with the pledges we have given to each other in and through our Constitution."

Your post is so wide ranging that I can't respond to every point right now. But let me say that I find it hard to believe that there are many illegal aliens running around in America who have been here longer than I have, unless they are over 80 years old. And, certainly not longer than my family, which arrived in the mid-1700s.

Regarding getting on some of the other forums, I find them so toxic with ranting, raving and personal insults, that I can't really sort out the issues which could be properly addressed.

Regarding immigration, my mantra is the same as that of DHS Secretary John Kelley (now WH Chief of Staff) "My job is to enforce the law as it is written. If you don't like the law, change it."

My priorities would be:

1. Seek out, arrest and deport gang members who are illegal aliens, with an emphasis on MS-13 members.

2. Apprehend, and turn around at the border, anyone attempting to enter our country illegally.

3. Take custody of any illegal alien convicted of a crime and process him for deportation, after completion of his jail sentence.

4. Cancel Obama's Executive Orders that ordered our law enforcement agencies not to enforce immigration laws.

5. Simply enforce existing immigration laws until they are changed by Congress.

6. Press for withholding of federal funds from any governmental entity that styles itself as a "sanctuary" from immigration process and refuses to cooperate with Immigration and Customs Enforcement officers.

Carl in Tampa

[Rockyrd]

Your post is so wide ranging that I can't respond to every point right now. But let me say that I find it hard to believe that there are many illegal aliens running around in America who have been here longer than I have, unless they are over 80 years old. And, certainly not longer than my family, which arrived in the mid-1700s.

Regarding getting on some of the other forums, I find them so toxic with ranting, raving and personal insults, that I can't really sort out the issues which could be properly addressed.

Regarding immigration, my mantra is the same as that of DHS Secretary John Kelley (now WH Chief of Staff) "My job is to enforce the law as it is written. If you don't like the law, change it."

My priorities would be:

1. Seek out, arrest and deport gang members who are illegal aliens, with an emphasis on MS-13 members.

2. Apprehend, and turn around at the border, anyone attempting to enter our country illegally.

3. Take custody of any illegal alien convicted of a crime and process him for deportation, after completion of his jail sentence.

4. Cancel Obama's Executive Orders that ordered our law enforcement agencies not to enforce immigration laws.

5. Simply enforce existing immigration laws until they are changed by Congress.

6. Press for withholding of federal funds from any governmental entity that styles itself as a "sanctuary" from immigration process and refuses to cooperate with Immigration and Customs Enforcement officers.


Without lots of words (odd for me), we agree as far as you went, but without addressing the 11 million or so that will still be here....non gang members with no criminal record.

S744 addressed that as I spelled out. You said originally yhey all go, but were silent on law abiding, non gang members. 744 offered a path that was good for the country, and by the way not that easy.

That bill had the makings but politics again got in the way. That bill also addressed the border wall issue.

This is my frustration.....this was killed and conversation gets heated and nasty and loud.

So, now we will simply make up one rule at a time.....next guy in has different views...he makes a new EO throws out all the rules his predecessor put in place and we get nowhere. Why is there not after all these years have bi partisan discussion, as we should be doing on health care....I, me...not interested in a Republican or Democratic plan on any of this, but a bi partisan plan for the country.

[Don Baldwin]

I didn't quote your entire earlier post because the point was the gang MS-13.

Addressing "economic factors" that leads to gang formation is irrelevant in the case of MS-13, because being illegal aliens, THEY DON'T BELONG HERE.

Getting rid of them IS NOT a matter of executive orders. It nèeds only the will to enforce EXISTING LAW.

By the way, "Comprehensive Immigration Reform" has become a code word for "amnesty for everyone who is now here illegally," which is unacceptable.

Carl in Tampa

We agree Carl...but I fear it's too late.

The 50 million anchor babies are the REAL problem...they have had kids and now those kids are having kids...Hispanics WILL be the absolute majority within 30 years...when that happens...America is done. America will become a Mexico II. Look at the border states...THAT is Americas future.

Without lots of words (odd for me), we agree as far as you went, but without addressing the 11 million or so that will still be here....non gang members with no criminal record.

S744 addressed that as I spelled out. You said originally yhey all go, but were silent on law abiding, non gang members. 744 offered a path that was good for the country, and by the way not that easy.

That bill had the makings but politics again got in the way. That bill also addressed the border wall issue.

This is my frustration.....this was killed and conversation gets heated and nasty and loud.

So, now we will simply make up one rule at a time.....next guy in has different views...he makes a new EO throws out all the rules his predecessor put in place and we get nowhere. Why is there not after all these years have bi partisan discussion, as we should be doing on health care....I, me...not interested in a Republican or Democratic plan on any of this, but a bi partisan plan for the country.

11 million "illegals" fresh from Mexico at any one time...but there are millions and millions that have settled down with their "illegal" anchor babies. There are 100 million Hispanics in this country. They ARE the majority of babies being born...they ARE the majority below the age of 7. They ARE taking over the country with their culture.

[MDLNB]

Deport anyone without legal documentation, period.

[Carl in Tampa]

Without lots of words (odd for me), we agree as far as you went, but without addressing the 11 million or so that will still be here....non gang members with no criminal record.

S744 addressed that as I spelled out. You said originally yhey all go, but were silent on law abiding, non gang members. 744 offered a path that was good for the country, and by the way not that easy.

That bill had the makings but politics again got in the way. That bill also addressed the border wall issue.

This is my frustration.....this was killed and conversation gets heated and nasty and loud.

So, now we will simply make up one rule at a time.....next guy in has different views...he makes a new EO throws out all the rules his predecessor put in place and we get nowhere. Why is there not after all these years have bi partisan discussion, as we should be doing on health care....I, me...not interested in a Republican or Democratic plan on any of this, but a bi partisan plan for the country.

Well.....no. I did address the "11 million remaining" illegal aliens. It was point #5.

5. Simply enforce existing immigration laws until they are changed by Congress.

ICE deals with other illegal aliens as they come in contact with them. It is just lower on the priority list than the other four items above it.

I continue to resist the argument that just because someone successfully broke our laws (to get here) and has successfully avoided detection of their illegal presence, we should put them on the path to citizenship.

NOW, having said that, I would consider measures (a new class of non immigrant visa) that would legitimize the presence of illegal aliens who have been in the United States for a long period of time without having been convicted of a crime, with the provision that they cannot attain citizenship without returning to their home country and getting in line behind their fellow citizens who have been waiting to become U.S. citizens legally.

Otherwise, they just take their chances and get deported when we catch them. And, deportation would make future citizenship applications more likely to be refused.

[Rockyrd]

Well.....no. I did address the "11 million remaining" illegal aliens. It was point #5.

5. Simply enforce existing immigration laws until they are changed by Congress.

ICE deals with other illegal aliens as they come in contact with them. It is just lower on the priority list than the other four items above it.

I continue to resist the argument that just because someone successfully broke our laws (to get here) and has successfully avoided detection of their illegal presence, we should put them on the path to citizenship.

NOW, having said that, I would consider measures (a new class of non immigrant visa) that would legitimize the presence of illegal aliens who have been in the United States for a long period of time without having been convicted of a crime, with the provision that they cannot attain citizenship without returning to their home country and getting in line behind their fellow citizens who have been waiting to become U.S. citizens legally.

Otherwise, they just take their chances and get deported when we catch them. And, deportation would make future citizenship applications more likely to be refused.

YO....I think we have agreement on all those issues.

I hope you join me in asking WH/House/Senate to get to work TOGETHER and come up with legislation. We cannot live one EO at a time.

This is from S744 for citizenship for those.....not as easy....

""First and foremost, the Senate bill would have put the vast majority of the 11.2 million unauthorized immigrants in the United States on a 13-year pathway to citizenship. Anyone who entered the country prior to January 1, 2012, who passed a background check, had not committed a serious crime, and paid fees and a fine could apply to gain registered provisional immigrant, or RPI, status. This is the first step toward permanent residency. Once they gained RPI status, immigrants would be free from the constant worry that they or their family members could be picked up by police, detained, and deported at any time; they also would have the ability to work legally. After 10 years with RPI status, they could adjust to permanent residency and, three years later, become citizens. The bill also included accelerated pathways to citizenship for DREAMers—young undocumented immigrants who came to the United States prior to age 16—and agricultural workers.