Assault on Free Speech

[Carl in Tampa]

HERE IS A PHOTO OF THE FIRST RIOT CONTROL SQUAD OF THE HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE. I AM THE THIRD PERSON from the right. This was a training session that was photographed by a Tampa Tribune photographer.

My usual assignment was behind this line, carrying a rifle, with the assignment of Counter-Sniper.

I really thought we had seen the last of the need for riot control after the close of the Vietnam War. That was before the rioting in Charlottesville, Virginia, last week.

Now I am watching on TV a small "Free Speech" event on Boston Commons which has a counter-demonstration of over 15,000 "Black Lives Matter" and "Antifa" marchers who object to the Free Speech provision of the First Amendment, and are working to OUTLAW FREE SPEECH if they deem it to be "Hate Speech."

I support the Constitution.

Carl in Tampa
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[Don Baldwin]

HERE IS A PHOTO OF THE FIRST RIOT CONTROL SQUAD OF THE HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE. I AM THE THIRD PERSON from the right. This was a training session that was photographed by a Tampa Tribune photographer.

My usual assignment was behind this line, carrying a rifle, with the assignment of Counter-Sniper.

I really thought we had seen the last of the need for riot control after the close of the Vietnam War. That was before the rioting in Charlottesville, Virginia, last week.

Now I am watching on TV a small "Free Speech" event on Boston Commons which has a counter-demonstration of over 15,000 "Black Lives Matter" and "Antifa" marchers who object to the Free Speech provision of the First Amendment, and are working to OUTLAW FREE SPEECH if they deem it to be "Hate Speech."

I support the Constitution.

Carl in Tampa
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Because when the TRUTH is told...it makes them look VERY bad. When the truth is told it makes one wonder...why do we keep them around?

It's the SAME here...they have NOTHING to counter my facts so they attack ME and they try to BAN my facts from being told...calling it "hate speech".

There is NO equality between blacks and the other races because blacks are not the same as the other races. We ARE different species with different ancestors and different genetics. We are up to 5%, 1/20th DIFFERENT genetically.

It will only get worse as they grow in numbers they're already the majority at 51%...it's WHY they're getting so vocal and getting so much attention. As the minorities grow in numbers and have more and more of "their kind" elected...expect things to get worse...ALL "white" reminders being removed...replaced by minorities. Tubman on the $10 bill.

[Rockyrd]

HERE IS A PHOTO OF THE FIRST RIOT CONTROL SQUAD OF THE HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE. I AM THE THIRD PERSON from the right. This was a training session that was photographed by a Tampa Tribune photographer.

My usual assignment was behind this line, carrying a rifle, with the assignment of Counter-Sniper.

I really thought we had seen the last of the need for riot control after the close of the Vietnam War. That was before the rioting in Charlottesville, Virginia, last week.

Now I am watching on TV a small "Free Speech" event on Boston Commons which has a counter-demonstration of over 15,000 "Black Lives Matter" and "Antifa" marchers who object to the Free Speech provision of the First Amendment, and are working to OUTLAW FREE SPEECH if they deem it to be "Hate Speech."

I support the Constitution.

Carl in Tampa
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Just a bit of a different perspective on WHY they are there. Does not seem to be a protest against, as you say "object to the free speech provision.."

From the Boston newspaper...sorry, you were not covered..
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BOSTON -- Thousands of left-leaning counter-protesters marched through downtown Boston on Saturday, chanting anti-Nazi slogans and waving signs condemning white nationalism ahead of a rally being staged by conservative activists, just a week after a Virginia demonstration turned deadly.

Police Commissioner William Evans said Friday that 500 officers -- some in uniform, others undercover -- would be deployed to keep the two groups apart on Saturday. Boston's Democratic mayor, Marty Walsh, and Massachusetts' Republican governor, Charlie Baker, both warned that extremist unrest wouldn't be tolerated in this city famed as the cradle of American liberty.

Walsh said at a news conference Friday that the city has spoken to the Southern Poverty Law Center, which provided guidance on how to handle conflicts with white supremacists, CBS Boston reported.

Organizers of the midday event, billed as a "Free Speech Rally," have publicly distanced themselves from the neo-Nazis, white supremacists and others who fomented violence in Charlottesville on Aug. 12. A woman was killed at that Unite the Right rally, and scores of others were injured, when a car plowed into counter-demonstrators.

Police confined the "Free Speech" rally to the Parkman Bandstand on Boston Common as they blocked off the massive protests, CBS Boston reports.

The Boston Police Department announced at 1:30 p.m. that the "Free Speech" rally had ended."
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Boston "free speech" rally ends after counter-protesters take to streets -- live updates - CBS News (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/boston-free-speech-rally-thousands-take-to-the-streets-in-rival-protests-live-updates/)

Nothing is quite as simple as you post it.

I honor and respect the first amendment, but as most decent Americans do, am hesitant to support white nationalism, although it is also protected.

Just think, under the current circumstances, without perspective, you post could be inflammatory.

Or...do you support "white nationalism" ? I am on the record clearly as opposing any such thing as a Nazi movement (see white nationalism)

[Abby10]

Just a bit of a different perspective on WHY they are there. Does not seem to be a protest against, as you say "object to the free speech provision.."

From the Boston newspaper...sorry, you were not covered..
-------------------------------------------_
BOSTON -- Thousands of left-leaning counter-protesters marched through downtown Boston on Saturday, chanting anti-Nazi slogans and waving signs condemning white nationalism ahead of a rally being staged by conservative activists, just a week after a Virginia demonstration turned deadly.

Police Commissioner William Evans said Friday that 500 officers -- some in uniform, others undercover -- would be deployed to keep the two groups apart on Saturday. Boston's Democratic mayor, Marty Walsh, and Massachusetts' Republican governor, Charlie Baker, both warned that extremist unrest wouldn't be tolerated in this city famed as the cradle of American liberty.

Walsh said at a news conference Friday that the city has spoken to the Southern Poverty Law Center, which provided guidance on how to handle conflicts with white supremacists, CBS Boston reported.

Organizers of the midday event, billed as a "Free Speech Rally," have publicly distanced themselves from the neo-Nazis, white supremacists and others who fomented violence in Charlottesville on Aug. 12. A woman was killed at that Unite the Right rally, and scores of others were injured, when a car plowed into counter-demonstrators.

Police confined the "Free Speech" rally to the Parkman Bandstand on Boston Common as they blocked off the massive protests, CBS Boston reports.

The Boston Police Department announced at 1:30 p.m. that the "Free Speech" rally had ended."
-----------------------------------------------

Boston "free speech" rally ends after counter-protesters take to streets -- live updates - CBS News (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/boston-free-speech-rally-thousands-take-to-the-streets-in-rival-protests-live-updates/)

Nothing is quite as simple as you post it.

I honor and respect the first amendment, but as most decent Americans do, am hesitant to support white nationalism, although it is also protected.

Just think, under the current circumstances, without perspective, you post could be inflammatory.

Or...do you support "white nationalism" ? I am on the record clearly as opposing any such thing as a Nazi movement (see white nationalism)

Your post doesn't make sense to me. As you posted above, the rally was a free speech rally whose organizers specifically distanced themselves from said extremist groups. So what exactly was the purpose of the counter-protesters from your perspective? Not sure I'm understanding what you are trying to say. Will everyone now, who supports free speech, be considered an extremist?? If so, our country is surely changing before our very eyes.

[Rockyrd]

Your post doesn't make sense to me. As you posted above, the rally was a free speech rally whose organizers specifically distanced themselves from said extremist groups. So what exactly was the purpose of the counter-protesters from your perspective? Not sure I'm understanding what you are trying to say. Will everyone now, who supports free speech, be considered an extremist?? If so, our country is surely changing before our very eyes.

NONE of the protestors stood against "free speech" as was the OP s remarks. Neither side.

THAT was my complaint. I still am not sure of WHY the rally in the first place. So close to that disaster in Virginia does not make sense but not judging anyone except for the presentation of the OP.

To characterize either group as marching against "free speech" is just wrong.

Sorry...that is how I FEEL......I realize on this white nationalist site, that is not received well because the reasons and motives for the rallies seem to take on a "skin color test" all by itself, and that may be wrong but on this forum.....white guys = good.....black guys = bad ALWAYS.

It is to be expected here, but does not make it any easier to accept.

AND the identity politics that you guys keep talking about looms here doesnt it, but of course it is all the fault of one group....certainly hot the white nationals. Do I sound bitter ? Sorry......7 months is very tiring thus far for me and the whole country.

PS.....some of the tee shirts worn by the protestors read "stop white genocide"......gee.......and our President tweeted...."Looks like many anti-police agitators in Boston" was there any credence to that accusation ? Serious question because all the signs that I could see were white nationalist type signs, but I was not there.

[Rockyrd]

Let us further understand more background on this march and the group who fostered it.....

Sponsored by Boston Free Speech.

This same group had an earlier rally...

"On May 13, a group of veterans, ex-police, Tea Party Republicans and young people affiliated with the self-described "alt-right" -- a conservative faction that mixes racism, white nationalism, anti-Semitism and populism -- gathered around the Common's historic Parkman Bandstand."

In that really in May....

"Speakers like Augustus Invictus, a political activist from Florida, used their speaking time to encourage attendees to arm themselves for another civil war."


Same organizers for this event, of which you speak as if they were not politically motivated and extremists.

Who Might Attend The Boston '''Free Speech''' Rally? A Look At One In May | WBUR News (http://www.wbur.org/news/2017/08/18/boston-common-free-speech-rally-plans)

[dbussone]

Your post doesn't make sense to me. As you posted above, the rally was a free speech rally whose organizers specifically distanced themselves from said extremist groups. So what exactly was the purpose of the counter-protesters from your perspective? Not sure I'm understanding what you are trying to say. Will everyone now, who supports free speech, be considered an extremist?? If so, our country is surely changing before our very eyes.



Don't feel badly. If you follow the political threads you'll note his posts run on ad nauseam. He is unable to summarize, and has a habit of coloring and highlighting those words which he feels you must read and comprehend. In other words, he will dictate what you must believe. So much for free speech.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[Rockyrd]

Don't feel badly. If you follow the political threads you'll note his posts run on ad nauseam. He is unable to summarize, and has a habit of coloring and highlighting those words which he feels you must read and comprehend. In other words, he will dictate what you must believe. So much for free speech.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Which part is over your head.

This is supposed to be presentation of facts. When do you begin ?

Sorry..ALL over your head.

You are able only to engage in sub teen back and forth, attacking personally, berift of facts. Must be boring to not know anything, nor obviously have a desire to learn anything

[Jack9696]

Don't feel badly. If you follow the political threads you'll note his posts run on ad nauseam. He is unable to summarize, and has a habit of coloring and highlighting those words which he feels you must read and comprehend. In other words, he will dictate what you must believe. So much for free speech.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk ProSometimes that happens when people get no respect at home.

[Rockyrd]

Let us further understand more background on this march and the group who fostered it.....

Sponsored by Boston Free Speech.

This same group had an earlier rally...

"On May 13, a group of veterans, ex-police, Tea Party Republicans and young people affiliated with the self-described "alt-right" -- a conservative faction that mixes racism, white nationalism, anti-Semitism and populism -- gathered around the Common's historic Parkman Bandstand."

In that really in May....

"Speakers like Augustus Invictus, a political activist from Florida, used their speaking time to encourage attendees to arm themselves for another civil war."


Same organizers for this event, of which you speak as if they were not politically motivated and extremists.

Who Might Attend The Boston '''Free Speech''' Rally? A Look At One In May | WBUR News (http://www.wbur.org/news/2017/08/18/boston-common-free-speech-rally-plans)

When you understand what this group stands for, and you have our President calling the other marchers "anti police", you understand the fear in this country.

There seems to be no truth.

I know you folks are of the white nationalist type, but let me advise you of the mood in the 1930s

[Jack9696]

When you understand what this group stands for, and you have our President calling the other marchers "anti police", you understand the fear in this country.

There seems to be no truth.

I know you folks are of the white nationalist type, but let me advise you of the mood in the 1930sWhat was the mood in the 1930s? Please share. It's nice to hear these things 1st hand to really appreciate them.

[Abby10]

NONE of the protestors stood against "free speech" as was the OP s remarks. Neither side.

THAT was my complaint. I still am not sure of WHY the rally in the first place. So close to that disaster in Virginia does not make sense but not judging anyone except for the presentation of the OP.

To characterize either group as marching against "free speech" is just wrong.

Sorry...that is how I FEEL......I realize on this white nationalist site, that is not received well because the reasons and motives for the rallies seem to take on a "skin color test" all by itself, and that may be wrong but on this forum.....white guys = good.....black guys = bad ALWAYS.

It is to be expected here, but does not make it any easier to accept.

AND the identity politics that you guys keep talking about looms here doesnt it, but of course it is all the fault of one group....certainly hot the white nationals. Do I sound bitter ? Sorry......7 months is very tiring thus far for me and the whole country.

PS.....some of the tee shirts worn by the protestors read "stop white genocide"......gee.......and our President tweeted...."Looks like many anti-police agitators in Boston" was there any credence to that accusation ? Serious question because all the signs that I could see were white nationalist type signs, but I was not there.

Hey, didn't mean to get you all in a tizzy. Just trying to understand your point. I guess my mind is too simple - you know, "sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me" mentality. I don't get the big deal about people protesting about anything as long as they aren't taking action that is violent or physically harmful to others, and that to me would include destruction of property. I find that groups that promote hate toward others to be disgusting. But it unnerves me as well to go down the path of limiting anyone's right to free speech no matter the content because the problem then becomes how far do you take that and who becomes the judge as to what is acceptable and what is not.

[Sandtrap328]

HERE IS A PHOTO OF THE FIRST RIOT CONTROL SQUAD OF THE HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE. I AM THE THIRD PERSON from the right. This was a training session that was photographed by a Tampa Tribune photographer.

My usual assignment was behind this line, carrying a rifle, with the assignment of Counter-Sniper.

I really thought we had seen the last of the need for riot control after the close of the Vietnam War. That was before the rioting in Charlottesville, Virginia, last week.

Now I am watching on TV a small "Free Speech" event on Boston Commons which has a counter-demonstration of over 15,000 "Black Lives Matter" and "Antifa" marchers who object to the Free Speech provision of the First Amendment, and are working to OUTLAW FREE SPEECH if they deem it to be "Hate Speech."

I support the Constitution.

Carl in Tampa
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BFD

Your Antifa crap was not heard of until last week.
Your president (not mine) represents all that Adolf Hitler represented in 1933. Read your history books, Mr. Former Policeman.
Once again, BFD.

[Rockyrd]

What was the mood in the 1930s? Please share. It's nice to hear these things 1st hand to really appreciate them.

"The violent white nationalist rally in Virginia has reawakened simmering fears of American fascism. But the roots of these feelings — and the militant organizations that promoted them — did not begin with the election of President Trump. The last time fascism was brazenly embraced was in the 1930s. The lessons of that crucial decade bear increasing relevance for modern American life. The three big factors that drove the spread of American fascism at that time are still relevant for America today."

These are the three reasons fascism spread in 1930s America — and might spread again today - The Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/08/12/these-are-the-three-reasons-that-fascism-spread-in-1930s-america-and-might-spread-again-today/?utm_term=.471f4fcca511)

Or, you read...



The New White Nationalism in America: Its Challenge to Integration......Carol Swain

"Hitler's American Model: The United States and the making of Nazi Race Law...James Q. Whitman

[Rockyrd]

Hey, didn't mean to get you all in a tizzy. Just trying to understand your point. I guess my mind is too simple - you know, "sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me" mentality. I don't get the big deal about people protesting about anything as long as they aren't taking action that is violent or physically harmful to others, and that to me would include destruction of property. I find that groups that promote hate toward others to be disgusting. But it unnerves me as well to go down the path of limiting anyone's right to free speech no matter the content because the problem then becomes how far do you take that and who becomes the judge as to what is acceptable and what is not.

My memories of WW2 are of a child. My knowledge is of an adult. The atrocities which had as a forerunner, a white nationalist movement with a leader who attacked everyone. It was a horror. So many died and suffered.

You folks on here seem to be very comfortable with defending on a false premise, Nazi signs, hate slogans, brown shirts, the President having young boys chant his name at a rally.

You know the background and you still....excuse me with the YOU...not personalizing it, but nobody on here criticizes this white nationalist movement, steeped in the Nazi movement. Same uniforms, same chants and same attacks on media.

"(CNN)Across the country, flyers are showing up on college campuses.

Some promote blatant neo-Nazi rhetoric, others are much more subtle.
"Protect your heritage." "Let's become great again." "Our future belongs to us." "White people, do something." "Serve your people."

They represent a less extreme white supremacist movement targeting the young and educated.
"They're racist, but they have fancy new packaging," said Brian Levin, director for the Center of Hate and Extremism at Cal State San Bernardino. "They learn to downplay the swastikas and get a thesaurus, so instead of white supremacy they use words like identitarian. It's just a repackaged version of white nationalism."

"A resurgence of white nationalism": New report shows hate groups spiked in 2016 - CNNPolitics (http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/15/politics/hate-groups-spiked-in-2016/index.html)

Look at this thread. Not a mention of the base force behind the rally. Not a mention of their beliefs.

BUT an immediate rejection of those opposed. This is EXACTLY like the 1930/40s

I do get in a tizzy seeing the brown shirts and nazi placards

[dbussone]

BFD

Your Antifa crap was not heard of until last week.
Your president (not mine) represents all that Adolf Hitler represented in 1933. Read your history books, Mr. Former Policeman.
Once again, BFD.



Your disrespect of a man who served our country in so many ways says everything we need to know about you.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[Rockyrd]

Your disrespect of a man who served our country in so many ways says everything we need to know about you.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Such a stupid stupid post. I know of many folks on here who have served far and wide, over and beyond. They just dont share it with you, and they, in some cases were drummed off this forum by people like you

Had to come back to add. Back a few years with the older political forum, we had a poster who was heavily decorated war hero from Vietnam. He never talked about it, but he and I shared a coffee at Starbucks one day, and found he served with a very good buddy of mine (a medic with a few medals himself). I mentioned him to my buddy in an email and he shared that this guy was a true hero, but never did anyone know that on the forum, and he had chances in discussions to bring it in, but never did.

Point is, everyone should respect Carl's service, but many on this forum have given more than you know.. disagreeing with someone and pointing out errors made is NOT disrespect, and Carl would be the first to tell you he deserves nor more respect on here than anyone. Judge on words and truth.

[Rockyrd]

On the thread subject....our President tweeted this today about the situation in Boston...


"Looks like many anti-police agitators in Boston. Police are looking tough and smart! Thank you."

Does anyone have information as to what he is talking about ?

Who was anti police and how was that shown ?

This was a tweet from a reporter there...

"Just spoke with Boston Police Commissioner William Evans. He says things are going really well."

Leadership ?

[Carl in Tampa]

Just a bit of a different perspective on WHY they are there. Does not seem to be a protest against, as you say "object to the free speech provision.."

From the Boston newspaper...sorry, you were not covered..
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BOSTON -- Thousands of left-leaning counter-protesters marched through downtown Boston on Saturday, chanting anti-Nazi slogans and waving signs condemning white nationalism ahead of a rally being staged by conservative activists, just a week after a Virginia demonstration turned deadly.

Police Commissioner William Evans said Friday that 500 officers -- some in uniform, others undercover -- would be deployed to keep the two groups apart on Saturday. Boston's Democratic mayor, Marty Walsh, and Massachusetts' Republican governor, Charlie Baker, both warned that extremist unrest wouldn't be tolerated in this city famed as the cradle of American liberty.

Walsh said at a news conference Friday that the city has spoken to the Southern Poverty Law Center, which provided guidance on how to handle conflicts with white supremacists, CBS Boston reported.

Organizers of the midday event, billed as a "Free Speech Rally," have publicly distanced themselves from the neo-Nazis, white supremacists and others who fomented violence in Charlottesville on Aug. 12. A woman was killed at that Unite the Right rally, and scores of others were injured, when a car plowed into counter-demonstrators.

Police confined the "Free Speech" rally to the Parkman Bandstand on Boston Common as they blocked off the massive protests, CBS Boston reports.

The Boston Police Department announced at 1:30 p.m. that the "Free Speech" rally had ended."
-----------------------------------------------

Boston "free speech" rally ends after counter-protesters take to streets -- live updates - CBS News (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/boston-free-speech-rally-thousands-take-to-the-streets-in-rival-protests-live-updates/)

Nothing is quite as simple as you post it.

I honor and respect the first amendment, but as most decent Americans do, am hesitant to support white nationalism, although it is also protected.

Just think, under the current circumstances, without perspective, you post could be inflammatory.

Or...do you support "white nationalism" ? I am on the record clearly as opposing any such thing as a Nazi movement (see white nationalism)

I will address the three points that I have highlighted in yellow.

1. OF COURSE the point of the counter-demonstration is to suppress Free Speech. The counter-demonstrators use the threat of violence, and actual violence, to break up the group they are demonstrating against.

2. The organizers of the rally distanced themselves from the White Supremacist groups. Note that the niece of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. appeared on TV before the rally in support of the rally. She is not a White Supremacist.

Having said that, if some event (not this one) was the most virulent, disgusting, White Supremacist rally to ever be seen, it is still protected by the First Amendment. They still have the right to speak under the provisions of the First Amendment as decided by the Supreme Court. The Court has said that the First Amendment’s tradition of “protect[ing] the freedom to express ‘the thought that we hate’ ” includes the right to express even “discriminatory” viewpoints.

No "counter-demonstration" should be allowed to prevent the Free Speech of another group with a different viewpoint. That's why the Police show up.

3. You make a grave mistake when you equate my support of the First Amendment with support of White Nationalism. Actually, I know that you know better. You are just trying to make me angry by insulting me.

As in other cases, I wonder if you would be equally rude if you were speaking to me in person, or are you capable of exchanging ideas without sinking in the mire of personal insults?

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Carl in Tampa
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[Rockyrd]

I will address the three points that I have highlighted in yellow.

1. OF COURSE the point of the counter-demonstration is to suppress Free Speech. The counter-demonstrators use the threat of violence, and actual violence, to break up the group they are demonstrating against.

2. The organizers of the rally distanced themselves from the White Supremacist groups. Note that the niece of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. appeared on TV before the rally in support of the rally. She is not a White Supremacist.

Having said that, if some event (not this one) was the most virulent, disgusting, White Supremacist rally to ever be seen, it is still protected by the First Amendment. They still have the right to speak under the provisions of the First Amendment as decided by the Supreme Court. The Court has said that the First Amendment’s tradition of “protect[ing] the freedom to express ‘the thought that we hate’ ” includes the right to express even “discriminatory” viewpoints.

No "counter-demonstration" should be allowed to prevent the Free Speech of another group with a different viewpoint. That's why the Police show up.

3. You make a grave mistake when you equate my support of the First Amendment with support of White Nationalism. Actually, I know that you know better. You are just trying to make me angry by insulting me.

As in other cases, I wonder if you would be equally rude if you were speaking to me in person, or are you capable of exchanging ideas without sinking in the mire of personal insults?

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Carl in Tampa
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I take great pride in not being rude, UNLESS responding to such.

My response to you was to simply put into context, what in my opinion was a misleading post, criticizing one group of people without investigating or posting any information on a group that by its own words is in support of white nationalism and who was a large part of Charlottesville.

How do you select what group is demonstrating against free speech ?

You seem, to me, to have made that judgement quite quickly.

Yes, and I did no accuse you if one thing relative to white nationalism, except to point out that this forum is easily 80% white nationalists.

I have been around for quite some time Carl....I am not a novice, I know the buzz words, notice as you and Rubicon discuss "identity politics" that is a favorite among the white nationalist groups. Not aimed at you, but please don't lecture me; you are not the only poster on here.

I rely on accurate information, not implication. I support my points of view with facts, not innuendo. Your OP was extremely misleading, and I took exception. So, that's it...alll the slights you think you see may not have been aimed at you after all.

Again, I am not a novice. I KNOW what white nationalist say, and what they do not say. Our President today labeled a group as "anti police agitators" and that is another buzz phrase, as you SHOULD know. That was uncalled for, and frankly I am concerned about this movement that closely mirrors naziism.

As you can read in most posts where someone finally discusses real issues, I endorse American working together, without labels.

On here there is too much labeling and attacking.

This isn't my first rodeo in politics, and I have watched the deterioration of what used to be a respected calling. IN MY OPINION...the current occupant of the Oval Office is a disgrace to our country and the morals that enabled our growth. He is becoming more and more every day a divider...he has yet to make one effort to unite this country. And please, blaming the left is ludicrious..,they are doing nothing and are not organized enough if they wanted.

The latest fiasco (not one person on this forum, nor anyone in the administration has yet to condemn the words used to describe a dead woman from Charlottesville) where we now seem to feel it is fine and dandy to wear brown shirts, wave Nazi flags, shout nazi hate slogans, and I still have in my memory, those little boys being led in a cheers celebrating Trump by Trump. This is not aimed at you, but does not leave my mind. The atrocities of WW2 should never leave our mind

I love this country; I have served this country in a number of ways; I have been privileged to meet many great leaders, and to me we are on such a backslide it scares me.

Oh, your buddy or please..perceived buddy, Rubicon will come on here in the morning and proclaim that all the ills of the world are to be laid at the feet of millions of Americans..,he has already shared that the election if Trump was too late, and from my perspective hearing stuff like that is damn scary.

And don't give me the Clinton/OBama stuff. I don't care because whatever you think, there is NO EXCUSE..ZERO EXCUSE for having a President lie chronically and to attack everyone who might disagree. Attacking someone else cannot be support for lying. There is a difference between supporting someone and giving up standards because you didn't like his opponent (and I sure don't or did support Clinton)

Sorry for the lecture...I am big on truth, context and discussion. Bottom line, I just did not think your OP was honest, not in context and misleading as to intent. Same way I feel about Trumps tweet..,no reason for that.

[Carl in Tampa]

BFD

Your Antifa crap was not heard of until last week.
Your president (not mine) represents all that Adolf Hitler represented in 1933. Read your history books, Mr. Former Policeman.
Once again, BFD.

You genuinely, honestly, never heard of Antifa until last week?

Really?

I guess you missed them at the anti-World Trade Organization protests in 1999 in Seattle.

And the 2011 Occupy Wall Street "lie in."

Antifa demonstrators have marched in more than a half dozen protests since Election Day in Portland, Oregon, according to police.

Earlier this year, Antifa activists were among those who smashed windows and set fires during protests at the University of California, Berkeley. I would have thought you might have seen that.

Antifa activists were in New York City on May Day.

Over the past year, Antifa members have been involved in clashes across the country and the world, including in Chicago, Philadelphia, Houston, Alabama and Nebraska, and at the G20 summit in Hamburg, Germany.

And..................you didn't hear about them until last week.

:sigh:
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Carl in Tampa
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[Chi-Town]

I will address the three points that I have highlighted in yellow.

1. OF COURSE the point of the counter-demonstration is to suppress Free Speech. The counter-demonstrators use the threat of violence, and actual violence, to break up the group they are demonstrating against.

2. The organizers of the rally distanced themselves from the White Supremacist groups. Note that the niece of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. appeared on TV before the rally in support of the rally. She is not a White Supremacist.

Having said that, if some event (not this one) was the most virulent, disgusting, White Supremacist rally to ever be seen, it is still protected by the First Amendment. They still have the right to speak under the provisions of the First Amendment as decided by the Supreme Court. The Court has said that the First Amendment’s tradition of “protect[ing] the freedom to express ‘the thought that we hate’ ” includes the right to express even “discriminatory” viewpoints.

No "counter-demonstration" should be allowed to prevent the Free Speech of another group with a different viewpoint. That's why the Police show up.

3. You make a grave mistake when you equate my support of the First Amendment with support of White Nationalism. Actually, I know that you know better. You are just trying to make me angry by insulting me.

As in other cases, I wonder if you would be equally rude if you were speaking to me in person, or are you capable of exchanging ideas without sinking in the mire of personal insults?

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Carl in Tampa
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.No offense Carl, but tighten up your replies. This isn't an essay test where you might get a better grade by word count. You are much more succinct on the other side. And much more readable.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

[Carl in Tampa]

I take great pride in not being rude, UNLESS responding to such.

My response to you was to simply put into context, what in my opinion was a misleading post, criticizing one group of people without investigating or posting any information on a group that by its own words is in support of white nationalism and who was a large part of Charlottesville.

How do you select what group is demonstrating against free speech ?

You seem, to me, to have made that judgement quite quickly.

Yes, and I did no accuse you if one thing relative to white nationalism, except to point out that this forum is easily 80% white nationalists.

I have been around for quite some time Carl....I am not a novice, I know the buzz words, notice as you and Rubicon discuss "identity politics" that is a favorite among the white nationalist groups. Not aimed at you, but please don't lecture me; you are not the only poster on here.

I rely on accurate information, not implication. I support my points of view with facts, not innuendo. Your OP was extremely misleading, and I took exception. So, that's it...alll the slights you think you see may not have been aimed at you after all.

Again, I am not a novice. I KNOW what white nationalist say, and what they do not say. Our President today labeled a group as "anti police agitators" and that is another buzz phrase, as you SHOULD know. That was uncalled for, and frankly I am concerned about this movement that closely mirrors naziism.

As you can read in most posts where someone finally discusses real issues, I endorse American working together, without labels.

On here there is too much labeling and attacking.

This isn't my first rodeo in politics, and I have watched the deterioration of what used to be a respected calling. IN MY OPINION...the current occupant of the Oval Office is a disgrace to our country and the morals that enabled our growth. He is becoming more and more every day a divider...he has yet to make one effort to unite this country. And please, blaming the left is ludicrious..,they are doing nothing and are not organized enough if they wanted.

The latest fiasco (not one person on this forum, nor anyone in the administration has yet to condemn the words used to describe a dead woman from Charlottesville) where we now seem to feel it is fine and dandy to wear brown shirts, wave Nazi flags, shout nazi hate slogans, and I still have in my memory, those little boys being led in a cheers celebrating Trump by Trump. This is not aimed at you, but does not leave my mind. The atrocities of WW2 should never leave our mind

I love this country; I have served this country in a number of ways; I have been privileged to meet many great leaders, and to me we are on such a backslide it scares me.

Oh, your buddy or please..perceived buddy, Rubicon will come on here in the morning and proclaim that all the ills of the world are to be laid at the feet of millions of Americans..,he has already shared that the election if Trump was too late, and from my perspective hearing stuff like that is damn scary.

And don't give me the Clinton/OBama stuff. I don't care because whatever you think, there is NO EXCUSE..ZERO EXCUSE for having a President lie chronically and to attack everyone who might disagree. Attacking someone else cannot be support for lying. There is a difference between supporting someone and giving up standards because you didn't like his opponent (and I sure don't or did support Clinton)

Sorry for the lecture...I am big on truth, context and discussion. Bottom line, I just did not think your OP was honest, not in context and misleading as to intent. Same way I feel about Trumps tweet..,no reason for that.

Of course you were rude. And it was obviously deliberate and unjustified.

My original post was not in support of any group; it was in support of the First Amendment of the Constitution. As the Supreme Court has pointed out, hate speech is protected by the Constitution. That doesn't mean that I approve of it, nor does the Supreme Court.

You say that Rubicon and I discuss "identity politics." The use of quotation marks means the use of those exact words. First off, I don't know Rubicon, and we do not communicate privately about our postings. Secondly, I defy you to find any post of mine, anywhere, where I use the words "Identity Politics."

Most of the rest of your post has nothing to do with me or the original post regarding protecting the First Amendment, so I won't bother to address it.

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Carl in Tampa
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[Carl in Tampa]

No offense Carl, but tighten up your replies. This isn't an essay test where you might get a better grade by word count. You are much more succinct on the other side. And much more readable.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

No offense taken.

I had already noticed that my posts have been getting very long when I try to respond to each point of some very long posts by others who criticize my posts. I guess I'm going to have to forego pointing out any must their most glaring errors.

Besides, they don't listen and comprehend anyway.

:sigh:
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Carl in Tampa

[Rockyrd]

Of course you were rude. And it was obviously deliberate and unjustified.

My original post was not in support of any group; it was in support of the First Amendment of the Constitution. As the Supreme Court has pointed out, hate speech is protected by the Constitution. That doesn't mean that I approve of it, nor does the Supreme Court.

You say that Rubicon and I discuss "identity politics." The use of quotation marks means the use of those exact words. First off, I don't know Rubicon, and we do not communicate privately about our postings. Secondly, I defy you to find any post of mine, anywhere, where I use the words "Identity Politics."

Most of the rest of your post has nothing to do with me or the original post regarding protecting the First Amendment, so I won't bother to address it.

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Carl in Tampa
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Just a note...I am not intimidated.

Save your braggadocio and accusations. They are meaningless.

Just speak the truth.

[Rockyrd]

No offense taken.

I had already noticed that my posts have been getting very long when I try to respond to each point of some very long posts by others who criticize my posts. I guess I'm going to have to forego pointing out any must their most glaring errors.

Besides, they don't listen and comprehend anyway.

:sigh:
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Carl in Tampa

We learn at your feet. Sorry for the "glaring errors". You must tire of us common folks and our links and back up

[Taltarzac725]

Antifa (United States - Wikipedia) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_(United_States))

A link for the Antifa.

[Abby10]

We learn at your feet. Sorry for the "glaring errors". You must tire of us common folks and our links and back up

Geez, Rocky, take a break or something. You seem to be taking personal offense to everything posted that doesn't support your ideology /truth, and even posts such as mine where I merely ask for clarification. This is exactly why nothing is getting done in Washington - no one wants to entertain opposing viewpoints and have a real discussion about them. You always say you want real discussion on this forum, then proceed to try to shut down anyone who doesn't agree with your viewpoint! You need to quit hanging out with CNM so much.

[Rockyrd]

Geez, Rocky, take a break or something. You seem to be taking personal offense to everything posted that doesn't support your ideology /truth, and even posts such as mine where I merely ask for clarification. This is exactly why nothing is getting done in Washington - no one wants to entertain opposing viewpoints and have a real discussion about them. You always say you want real discussion on this forum, then proceed to try to shut down anyone who doesn't agree with your viewpoint! You need to quit hanging out with CNM so much.

Do you want a list of the obscene names I am called on here ? Why, only because I do not support Trump, because I object to lies, and object to being lectured based on made up lies.

The list is rather obscene and has nothing to do with disagreeing in any issue, because issues are not discussed here.


On this site, if you dare disagree with the President, you will be lectured and told how your sin is that you are a "libtard" which is humorous since I am a very conservative conservative. I just believe that truth is important, that hate NEVER is a basis for understanding and agreement, and that leadership requires listening and knowledge.

Sorry to you and all your followers. Maybe lecture the foul mouthed one line smart asses next time you have this need to set people straight.

[Wiotte]

Do you want a list of the obscene names I am called on here ? Why, only because I do not support Trump, because I object to lies, and object to being lectured based on made up lies.



The list is rather obscene and has nothing to do with disagreeing in any issue, because issues are not discussed here.





On this site, if you dare disagree with the President, you will be lectured and told how your sin is that you are a "libtard" which is humorous since I am a very conservative conservative. I just believe that truth is important, that hate NEVER is a basis for understanding and agreement, and that leadership requires listening and knowledge.



Sorry to you and all your followers. Maybe lecture the foul mouthed one line smart asses next time you have this need to set people straight.



Probably no worse than these...

George Carlin - 7 Words You Can't Say On TV - YouTube (http://youtu.be/kyBH5oNQOS0)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Abby10]

Do you want a list of the obscene names I am called on here ? Why, only because I do not support Trump, because I object to lies, and object to being lectured based on made up lies.

The list is rather obscene and has nothing to do with disagreeing in any issue, because issues are not discussed here.


On this site, if you dare disagree with the President, you will be lectured and told how your sin is that you are a "libtard" which is humorous since I am a very conservative conservative. I just believe that truth is important, that hate NEVER is a basis for understanding and agreement, and that leadership requires listening and knowledge.

Sorry to you and all your followers. Maybe lecture the foul mouthed one line smart asses next time you have this need to set people straight.

It seems you are taking your anger and/or frustration out on the wrong people. I don't think Carl or I, for example, have ever pointed you out in that fashion, yet you seem to have a "beef" on this thread toward us. That's all I'm saying. The one line smart asses, as you call them, come from both sides and I just tend to ignore them because, like you say about yourself, I'd prefer to have a discussion. I try not to support those comments by my refusal to engage, but respect that they have the freedom to say whatever they please. You are not one of those people so I continue to make an attempt to have a discussion with you. If you truly want to have a discussion, and not just with those who agree with your point of view, then it appears you are biting the hand(s) that is/are feeding you so to speak.

[Taltarzac725]

It seems you are taking your anger and/or frustration out on the wrong people. I don't think Carl or I, for example, have ever pointed you out in that fashion, yet you seem to have a "beef" on this thread toward us. That's all I'm saying. The one line smart asses, as you call them, come from both sides and I just tend to ignore them because, like you say about yourself, I'd prefer to have a discussion. I try not to support those comments by my refusal to engage, but respect that they have the freedom to say whatever they please. You are not one of those people so I continue to make an attempt to have a discussion with you. If you truly want to have a discussion, and not just with those who agree with your point of view, then it appears you are biting the hand(s) that is/are feeding you so to speak.

I agree Carl in Tampa is one of the posters who gives good information based on his extensive personal experiences. He is one to pay attention to most of the time.

The trolls on here seem to have been muzzled now to a certain extent.

[Jack9696]

I agree Carl in Tampa is one of the posters who gives good information based on his extensive personal experiences. He is one to pay attention to most of the time.

The trolls on here seem to have been muzzled now to a certain extent.Carl has good posts. What's a troll. Carl did not mention it, what did I miss in his posts.

[Sandtrap328]

Assault on free speech?? No, the "conservatives " who wanted to have their "free speech" were the white supremacists and NeoNazis that were in Charlottesville last weekend.

The good people of Boston rallied in a counter march of around 15,000 to silence the racists.

The NeoNazis and white supremacist rally was a failure - and I would hope all the readers agree that was a better outcome than last weekend.

[Abby10]

I agree Carl in Tampa is one of the posters who gives good information based on his extensive personal experiences. He is one to pay attention to most of the time.

The trolls on here seem to have been muzzled now to a certain extent.

I agree with you. I enjoy hearing from someone like Carl because of his background. I would also enjoy hearing from someone like Carl who might have a different viewpoint. The bottom line is, if we aren't willing to have open minds and a willingness to listen to all viewpoints, we will never get to the truth. I never take someone sharing their background and experience on here as an attitude of superiority. Instead, I feel it gives the reader a better understanding of the information they are supplying and provides some validity to their comments and viewpoints, whether they are on my side of the argument or the other. So, thank you, Carl, and again keep posting!

[Rockyrd]

You genuinely, honestly, never heard of Antifa until last week?

Really?

I guess you missed them at the anti-World Trade Organization protests in 1999 in Seattle.

And the 2011 Occupy Wall Street "lie in."

Antifa demonstrators have marched in more than a half dozen protests since Election Day in Portland, Oregon, according to police.

Earlier this year, Antifa activists were among those who smashed windows and set fires during protests at the University of California, Berkeley. I would have thought you might have seen that.

Antifa activists were in New York City on May Day.

Over the past year, Antifa members have been involved in clashes across the country and the world, including in Chicago, Philadelphia, Houston, Alabama and Nebraska, and at the G20 summit in Hamburg, Germany.

And..................you didn't hear about them until last week.

:sigh:
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Carl in Tampa
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Antifa is a terrible group who actually advocate violence.

They are the worst nightmare for those citizens who want to protest this presidency. If you live in the world of activists, be wary of who in fact sponsors the rally.

Alt right has been using and blaming everything on Antifa because it feeds their message of...woe is me, everyone is out to get Trump.

On the other hand, everyone in the left will blame the Nazi movement for all marches.

THIS IS THE REASON for my objection to this thread. People are jumping to conclusions about who is who. There are legitimate protests, and both the nazis and Antifa are smart enough and savvy enough to build into whatever they do, a way to blame the other side. In this case, it WAS a Nazi group holding the march, and the folks protesting them was a mixed bag. I do not like generalities, but the organizers announce where they stand as white nationalists before the march and also their involvement in last wekend.

Day and age of Facebook, twitter, etc. make it difficult to know the "players". I just think extraordinary caution needs to be taken before leveling charges.

[ColdNoMore]

Assault on free speech?? No, the "conservatives " who wanted to have their "free speech" were the white supremacists and NeoNazis that were in Charlottesville last weekend.

The good people of Boston rallied in a counter march of around 15,000 to silence the racists.

The NeoNazis and white supremacist rally was a failure - and I would hope all the readers agree that was a better outcome than last weekend.

Exactly.

Only those who are ignorant enough to try to soft-pedal that the vast majority of counter-protestors were there to protest the hate of the KKK/Neo-Nazi's/white supremacists who organized the event...would try to draw ANY type of parallel/equivalency.

You know...like Trump. :oops:



Dan Rather Just Gave The Best Response To Yesterday's Protests In Boston (http://occupydemocrats.com/2017/08/20/dan-rather-just-gave-best-response-yesterdays-protests-boston/)

America is realizing that it cannot sentimentalize its past, or excuse its bigotries, violence and hatreds.

Nor can it ignore the challenges of the present. But the question lies in our future.

Will this nation pick up the mantle of President Lincoln, President Roosevelt, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr and all the countless men and women over the course of our history who have pushed, prodded, exalted, shamed and willed this nation on a path of greater justice?

[Sandtrap328]

Exactly.

Only those who are ignorant enough to try to soft-pedal that the vast majority of counter-protestors were there to protest the hate of the KKK/Neo-Nazi's/white supremacists who organized the event...would try to draw ANY type of parallel/equivalency.

You know...like Trump. :oops:



Dan Rather Just Gave The Best Response To Yesterday's Protests In Boston (http://occupydemocrats.com/2017/08/20/dan-rather-just-gave-best-response-yesterdays-protests-boston/)


Excellent post!

:bigbow:

[Taltarzac725]

I would not equate the Antifa group-- which looks like a bunch of extremely unorganized youth and youth-in-spirit-- with the skin heads and other neo-Nazis.

[Carl in Tampa]

It seems you are taking your anger and/or frustration out on the wrong people. I don't think Carl or I, for example, have ever pointed you out in that fashion, yet you seem to have a "beef" on this thread toward us. That's all I'm saying. The one line smart asses, as you call them, come from both sides and I just tend to ignore them because, like you say about yourself, I'd prefer to have a discussion. I try not to support those comments by my refusal to engage, but respect that they have the freedom to say whatever they please. You are not one of those people so I continue to make an attempt to have a discussion with you. If you truly want to have a discussion, and not just with those who agree with your point of view, then it appears you are biting the hand(s) that is/are feeding you so to speak.

:agree:
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Carl in Tampa
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[Carl in Tampa]

Assault on free speech?? No, the "conservatives " who wanted to have their "free speech" were the white supremacists and NeoNazis that were in Charlottesville last weekend.

The good people of Boston rallied in a counter march of around 15,000 to silence the racists.

The NeoNazis and white supremacist rally was a failure - and I would hope all the readers agree that was a better outcome than last weekend.

Without realizing what you have said, you have come to the heart of the issue. The issue is Free Speech.

1. You claim that the people "who wanted to have their 'free speech' were the White Supremacists and Neo-Nazis that were in Charlottesville last weekend."

2. You are correct that in Boston there was "a counter march of around 15,000 to silence the racists."

Having said that, how can you deny that the march to "silence the racists" was not an assault on Free Speech? You see, the racists have a right to free speech too.

As I have pointed out repeatedly, the Supreme Court has ruled that Free Speech includes "hate speech," and it is protected by the First Amendment.

I have never personally advocated hate speech. I only insist that it is protected speech. That is why I originated this thread, to point out that even the worst among us have the right to express their opinions, no matter how disgusting and objectionable they may be.

On several occasions (Army, Secret Service, Sheriff's Office twice) I have sworn to "preserve, protect and defend" the Constitution of the United States. I took it seriously, and the positions that I advocate are in support of that oath.

Carl in Tampa
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[rubicon]

Of course you were rude. And it was obviously deliberate and unjustified.

My original post was not in support of any group; it was in support of the First Amendment of the Constitution. As the Supreme Court has pointed out, hate speech is protected by the Constitution. That doesn't mean that I approve of it, nor does the Supreme Court.

You say that Rubicon and I discuss "identity politics." The use of quotation marks means the use of those exact words. First off, I don't know Rubicon, and we do not communicate privately about our postings. Secondly, I defy you to find any post of mine, anywhere, where I use the words "Identity Politics."

Most of the rest of your post has nothing to do with me or the original post regarding protecting the First Amendment, so I won't bother to address it.

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Carl in Tampa
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Carl:

my aplogy. This poster draws some sort of connection because I responded to one of your post by copying(quote button) and moved mistakenly to make a non-existent personal connection to you and me.

I apply the quote only for the purpose(s) of continuity to a specific train of thought

As to the subject matter of identity politic it is widely discussed across America by both conservatives and liberals.

Personal Best Regards:

[Carl in Tampa]

Carl:

my aplogy. This poster draws some sort of connection because I responded to one of your post by copying(quote button) and moved mistakenly to make a non-existent personal connection to you and me.

I apply the quote only for the purpose(s) of continuity to a specific train of thought

As to the subject matter of identity politic it is widely discussed across America by both conservatives and liberals.

Personal Best Regards:

No apology necessary.

As you observed, there are those on this thread who seem to have a personal "beef" with us simply because we express a view contrary to theirs. Some resent my references to my background and employment history. I make such references only to give context to my positions on issues.

Carl in Tampa
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[Rockyrd]

No apology necessary.

As you observed, there are those on this thread who seem to have a personal "beef" with us simply because we express a view contrary to theirs. Some resent my references to my background and employment history. I make such references only to give context to my positions on issues.

Carl in Tampa
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Come on guys. Grow up

I do not resent your references at all. I only suggest that those who compliment you and bash the rest of us in comparison have no idea of the background of each poster.

By the way, I get ridiculed (over and over) when I try to give context by mentioning my background so I stopped.....funny the way that goes....it all depends on who you support.

You are obviously much more "in tune" than I or anyone else. Our context is bashed and ridiculed, and yours is subject of....well, honor.

And yes I AM bitter....you guys really think you are special and those who do not support white nationalism or Trump are trash and stupid. Yes, I DO resent that. AND yes, that is and has been said about me and others (Coldnomore) as one......many many times. You remember Coldnomore...that is the guy YOU accused me of being or being buddies with...funny how that works huh

YES, I am bitter.....I KNOW a few things but YOU nor anyone in your camp dare listen....we are the enemy. Political forum, my a$$....this is becoming a place for documentation of the white national groups and you stick together, that I will give you.

I have been told how rank and stupid I am by Gracie Girl, Rubicon, BTK, NEVER supplying any information to cast a doubt on what I say, but just sarcasm. Heck, COLDNOMORE was required to show his drivers liscense just to get on here. I mention those three because in reading it seems you have an allegiance or something....now do not lecture...I never said you knew them...do not want to be lectured again.

Today I was told how dumb I was in the middle of an intelligent conversation and they followed it up and kept it going. That does not seem to happen if you are not a white nationalist. I never disagree without supplying facts or links. Both can be disputed with your own facts, but NOBODY....NOBODY...NOBODY EVER DOES....NEVER.

Since you guys do not discuss, just preach, I assume you will simply continue until I get tired and leave....not going anywhere.....I was here before you and will continue.

So give your background for context....seems to work for you. I was called a liar, a phony and many many other obscene things....seems to work for you do keep enthralling everyone...made you and expert.

[Sandtrap328]

[QUOTE=Guest]Without realizing what you have said, you have come to the heart of the issue. The issue is Free Speech.

1. You claim that the people "who wanted to have their 'free speech' were the White Supremacists and Neo-Nazis that were in Charlottesville last weekend."

2. You are correct that in Boston there was "a counter march of around 15,000 to silence the racists."

Having said that, how can you deny that the march to "silence the racists" was not an assault on Free Speech? You see, the racists have a right to free speech too.

As I have pointed out repeatedly, the Supreme Court has ruled that Free Speech includes "hate speech," and it is protected by the First Amendment.

I have never personally advocated hate speech. I only insist that it is protected speech. That is why I originated this thread, to point out that even the worst among us have the right to express their opinions, no matter how disgusting and objectionable they may be.

---------

You are either for or against racist speech. You can say it is protected but if racist speech is happening and you do nothing, you are as racist as the speaker.

Would YOU tolerate racist talk from any of your friends without saying anything? I hope not.

[rubicon]

No apology necessary.

As you observed, there are those on this thread who seem to have a personal "beef" with us simply because we express a view contrary to theirs. Some resent my references to my background and employment history. I make such references only to give context to my positions on issues.

Carl in Tampa
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"a view contrary to theirs." Ah! There within lies the fallacy of identity politics..theirs is the only view. there can be no debate. Free speech to them is an anachronism. History must be re-written. identity politics dominates their agenda

The radical wing of the left knows only how to destroy but is incapable of building anything including relationships.

Personal Best Regards:

Personal Bet Regards:

[Rockyrd]

[QUOTE=Guest]Without realizing what you have said, you have come to the heart of the issue. The issue is Free Speech.

1. You claim that the people "who wanted to have their 'free speech' were the White Supremacists and Neo-Nazis that were in Charlottesville last weekend."

2. You are correct that in Boston there was "a counter march of around 15,000 to silence the racists."

Having said that, how can you deny that the march to "silence the racists" was not an assault on Free Speech? You see, the racists have a right to free speech too.

As I have pointed out repeatedly, the Supreme Court has ruled that Free Speech includes "hate speech," and it is protected by the First Amendment.

I have never personally advocated hate speech. I only insist that it is protected speech. That is why I originated this thread, to point out that even the worst among us have the right to express their opinions, no matter how disgusting and objectionable they may be.

---------

You are either for or against racist speech. You can say it is protected but if racist speech is happening and you do nothing, you are as racist as the speaker.

Would YOU tolerate racist talk from any of your friends without saying anything? I hope not.

Let me be clear as I do not know who you are speaking to but my objection was your presentation as I said over and over.

You totally misrepresented in your post. You never mentioned the background of the group who began the march and inferred that everyone else were bad guys and they were marching against FREE SPEECH.

They were there to object to a radical white nationalist march that were deeply involved in the Charlottesville fiasco just a week

earlier. I saw NOT ONE SIGN or chant against FREE SPEECH, BUT THEY WERE attacked by our President as "anti police protestors".......with no justification or support with facts.

I object to the groups who rally like this, but mostly I object to not being accurate in speaking about them. Why is there a need to make your general characterization.

[Rockyrd]

"a view contrary to theirs." Ah! There within lies the fallacy of identity politics..theirs is the only view. there can be no debate. Free speech to them is an anachronism. History must be re-written. identity politics dominates their agenda

The radical wing of the left knows only how to destroy but is incapable of building anything including relationships.

Personal Best Regards:

Personal Bet Regards:

You guys are tag teaming this afternoon

[Rockyrd]

"a view contrary to theirs." Ah! There within lies the fallacy of identity politics..theirs is the only view. there can be no debate. Free speech to them is an anachronism. History must be re-written. identity politics dominates their agenda

The radical wing of the left knows only how to destroy but is incapable of building anything including relationships.

Personal Best Regards:

Personal Bet Regards:

You folks, with your incessant labeling of people and groups by color or poliltical philosophy and your ignoring of the issues and solutions to problems is outstanding.

You cannot continue to just label people by skin color or whatever label you choose to use. It is not going to serve American well,


"While President Barack Obama clearly had a special connection to African-Americans because of what he represented in terms of race, identity and history, Trump seems to have a similar connection with white voters for reasons that can't be separated from race, identity and history.
The Trump campaign, and now the Trump presidency, is infused with identity politics, just not the kind reporters, pundits, pollsters and political strategists tend to talk about that often: white identity politics and the politics of white resentment.
Trump ran on the promise of restoration, a nostalgia for a time gone by, and the sense that America, particularly white America, is losing and has been for many years.
In this scenario, Trump is the foremost culture warrior and defender."


What Trump understands about white identity politics - CNNPolitics (http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/17/politics/trump-white-identity-politics/index.html)

"Now identity politics acolytes seek to divide the country once again by bringing our differences — gender, class, religion and, most of all, race — back into the foreground. And by singling out race as the defining aspect of American life, activists on the left are basically asking white men to “own” their identity. In Charlottesville, they did."

Stop blaming white supremacy on ‘identity politics’ - The Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2017/08/14/stop-blaming-charlottesville-on-identity-politics/?utm_term=.eb7098b50920)

"There is nothing new about white supremacist groups in the U.S., or anti-Semitism, or people who defend the symbols of the Confederacy. (The “Unite the Right” rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, was to protest the planned removal of a statue of Confederate General Robert E. Lee.) From Richard Nixon’s “law and order” platform to Ronald Reagan’s invocation of the “welfare queen,” presidents (mostly Republican, at least in recent decades) have regularly appealed to white, conservative-leaning voters by playing up fears and stereotypes about African-Americans and other minority groups.

What is different about this iteration of white nationalism is how the movement is framing its ideas, and the place those ideas occupy in U.S. politics. One of the chants white nationalists repeatedly turned to as they marched in Charlottesville on Friday night and Saturday was “white lives matter” — a direct response to the “Black Lives Matter” movement that emerged after the killing of Michael Brown by Ferguson, Missouri, police in August 2014 and the resulting protests.

That context is important to understand this moment in American politics — the events in Charlottesville and the “alt-right” generally. There are two competing narratives about race and racism at the center of today’s discussions. One perspective — most directly expressed by Black Lives Matter activists but also shared by many Democratic politicians, the media and other elite institutions — is that a “Black Lives Matter” movement is necessary because, by a lot of metrics, America has left blacks behind. The wealth of the average white family still dwarfs that of the average African-American family. The black jobless rate is about double that of the white one. Black men are disproportionately killed by police officers. Black children are more likely than white ones to attend high-poverty schools."


Charlottesville And The Rise Of White Identity Politics | FiveThirtyEight (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/charlottesville-and-the-rise-of-white-identity-politics/)

[Carl in Tampa]

Rockyrd

:rant-rave:





It is genuinely saddening to see such bitterness.

I don't understand the bitterness except in the context of continuing to misunderstand my postings. It is simply wrong to assert that I advocate or promote hate speech or White Supremacy, which I have repeatedly disavowed. There seems to be a disconnect from reality. After several attempts, I don't see any way to correct it.

Carl in Tampa
.
.
.

[Rockyrd]

It is genuinely saddening to see such bitterness.

I don't understand the bitterness except in the context of continuing to misunderstand my postings. It is simply wrong to assert that I advocate or promote hate speech or White Supremacy, which I have repeatedly disavowed. There seems to be a disconnect from reality. After several attempts, I don't see any way to correct it.

Carl in Tampa
.
.
.

It's my fault of course......join us while I am being attacked.someday to gain an understanding although I have my doubts you care.....nobody ever said, as often as you keep saying it, that you advocated anything, thus there is nothing to correct.

I could not be clearer...my problem was the presentation of your OP. Your goal of making me look stupid has been achieved..ok ? You are wonderful. By the way, I have very good touch with reality.

BUT...

With the firing of Bannon, Gorka leaving, the addition of Kelly. MAYBE DAWN is breaking finally in the White House.

President will address the nation on Afghanastan, etc tomorrow.

This is such a positive step. Not a rally, not politics.....actual governing.

I think it is positive because the last 7 months of this has been tiring.

[Carl in Tampa]

[QUOTE=Guest]Rockyrd

Let me be clear as I do not know who you are speaking to but my objection was your presentation as I said over and over.

You totally misrepresented in your post. You never mentioned the background of the group who began the march and inferred that everyone else were bad guys and they were marching against FREE SPEECH.

They were there to object to a radical white nationalist march that were deeply involved in the Charlottesville fiasco just a week

earlier. I saw NOT ONE SIGN or chant against FREE SPEECH, BUT THEY WERE attacked by our President as "anti police protestors".......with no justification or support with facts.

I object to the groups who rally like this, but mostly I object to not being accurate in speaking about them. Why is there a need to make your general characterization.

The response was to Sandtrap328, whose post was quoted.

I didn't mention the group, but acknowledged that Sandtrap328 asserted that they were White Supremacists.

I then used Sandtrap328's statement that the counter-marchers intended to "silence the racists." THIS was the attack on free speech that I referenced.

I just don't see how it could be any plainer, and I'm tired of repeating it.

Oh, yes. All thirty-three of the rioters arrested by the police were in the mob marching in opposition to the Free Speech meeting, and many of them can be seen on TV assaulting the police. At one point the police commissioner called upon the rioters to quit throwing rocks and bottles of urine at the police. Perhaps this was why the President called them "anti-police."


Carl in Tampa
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.
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[Sandtrap328]

Yes, 33 protesters were arrested in Boston. There are a few in every group that overstep the limits. That is 33 out of an estimated 40,000 protesters.

I would hate to think you, Carl, would not speak out against NeoNazis. Imagine having a group of brown shirted NeoNazis with swasticas on armbands speaking at Lake Sumter Landing. Hate speech is not an American value, is it? Carl, would YOU tolerate any of your friends using racist speech in your presence? I certainly hope not.

The people of Boston are to be commended for not allowing the hatefulness of one group to take over their city and for standing up to racism and bigotry with peaceful protests.

Boston Strong!

ST

[Jack9696]

Yes, 33 protesters were arrested in Boston. There are a few in every group that overstep the limits. That is 33 out of an estimated 40,000 protesters.

I would hate to think you, Carl, would not speak out against NeoNazis. Imagine having a group of brown shirted NeoNazis with swasticas on armbands speaking at Lake Sumter Landing. Hate speech is not an American value, is it? Carl, would YOU tolerate any of your friends using racist speech in your presence? I certainly hope not.

The people of Boston are to be commended for not allowing the hatefulness of one group to take over their city and for standing up to racism and bigotry with peaceful protests.

Boston Strong!

STSo you think only 33 crimes were committed?

[Carl in Tampa]

Sandtrap328
Yes, 33 protesters were arrested in Boston. There are a few in every group that overstep the limits. That is 33 out of an estimated 40,000 protesters.

Hate speech is not an American value, is it? Carl, would YOU tolerate any of your friends using racist speech in your presence? I certainly hope not.

The people of Boston are to be commended for not allowing the hatefulness of one group to take over their city and for standing up to racism and bigotry with peaceful protests.

Boston Strong!

ST

You don't hear a lot of racist, or homophobic, speech around my crowd.

That could be because I have brothers and sisters of various races and practices. They are often closer to me than my blood relatives because we are "under the badge" together, and we have risked our lives to protect each other.

I have gay friends extending back to my high school days with whom I am still in frequent contact. It should be no shock to anyone that there are a good many lesbians in law enforcement. Among them are some of my closest friends at the office where I used to work.

I count among my Black friends one retired deputy sheriff who is about the size of former football star "Rosey" Grier. We worked together and are still prepared to watch out for each other should the need arise. The same is true for a multitude of friends of various other races. WE are family.

And, guess what. All of us, regardless of sex, race, or personal views had careers in which defending the Constitution was of paramount importance over any personal feelings of "taking offense" at "hate speech" that might be directed in our direction.


Carl in Tampa

.

[rubicon]

I would not equate the Antifa group-- which looks like a bunch of extremely unorganized youth and youth-in-spirit-- with the skin heads and other neo-Nazis.

To the average American that desires this nation return to balance the response to the above-cited post is six of one and a half dozen of the other.

Personal Best Regards:

[dirtbanker]

Yes, 33 protesters were arrested in Boston. There are a few in every group that overstep the limits. That is 33 out of an estimated 40,000 protesters.

I would hate to think you, Carl, would not speak out against NeoNazis. Imagine having a group of brown shirted NeoNazis with swasticas on armbands speaking at Lake Sumter Landing. Hate speech is not an American value, is it? Carl, would YOU tolerate any of your friends using racist speech in your presence? I certainly hope not.

The people of Boston are to be commended for not allowing the hatefulness of one group to take over their city and for standing up to racism and bigotry with peaceful protests.

Boston Strong!

STSandy - I would not care if neo nazis wanted to speak at Lake Sumter Landing (obviously it is not going to take place during the hours of 5 till 9 PM), no more than I would care if gay rights group wanted to speak at LSL. I don't have to listen to either group if I do not wish too!

I also don't need to go and counter protest words spoken to a small group of people that already sympathize with either cause.

USA STRONG!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

[dirtbanker]

It's my fault of course...... Your goal of making me look stupid has been achieved..ok ?
Oh don't give Carl all the credit, you have been pretty successful at making yourself look stupid too!

One thing I have noticed about Carl, he posts his own words (don't believe he needs to copy and paste someone else's words in bold)...



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

[Rockyrd]

Sandy - I would not care if neo nazis wanted to speak at Lake Sumter Landing (obviously it is not going to take place during the hours of 5 till 9 PM), no more than I would care if gay rights group wanted to speak at LSL. I don't have to listen to either group if I do not wish too!

I also don't need to go and counter protest words spoken to a small group of people that already sympathize with either cause.

USA STRONG!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

I cannot speak for Sandtrap, but "perhaps" you are misunderstanding his meaning.

I think that the "attacks" on those "attacking" nazi slogans etc is to allow to paint a picture of the counter protesters as the bad guys and give the nazi folks credibility.

That is what our President did in both cases, and how I interpeted the OP of this thread. Do not allow anyone to know the motive behind the primary march, and then paint those who DID KNOW the purpose as the bad guys.

This is probably going to work. It will bring out more anti nazi people but that will be used over and over as an "excuse" for nazism.

I am glad you feel so comfortable with ignoring Nazi propoganda...that is how it was in the 1930's and keep in mind.

YOU CANNOT PUT THE CAP BACK ON THE BOTTLE ONCE IT IS OUT.

Free speech protects them for sure, but american values should ot allow it to become an accepted thing by our President or anyone.

Brown shirts, nazi slogans and signs, having boy scouts shout in cheers adoration for the President, led by the President should alarm every single american.

Remember, this Nazi movement was based on these marches, thESE cheers and rallies AND ATTACK ON THE MEDIA.


Sandtrap can speak for himself, but that is how I have seen this entire thread.

You can choose to not listen, they do have the right, but in my opinion, they do not need empowerment from anyone, especially the President who speaks for all of us.

[ColdNoMore]

HERE IS A PHOTO OF THE FIRST RIOT CONTROL SQUAD OF THE HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE. I AM THE THIRD PERSON from the right. This was a training session that was photographed by a Tampa Tribune photographer.

My usual assignment was behind this line, carrying a rifle, with the assignment of Counter-Sniper.

I really thought we had seen the last of the need for riot control after the close of the Vietnam War. That was before the rioting in Charlottesville, Virginia, last week.

Now I am watching on TV a small "Free Speech" event on Boston Commons which has a counter-demonstration of over 15,000 "Black Lives Matter" and "Antifa" marchers who object to the Free Speech provision of the First Amendment, and are working to OUTLAW FREE SPEECH if they deem it to be "Hate Speech."

I support the Constitution.

Carl in Tampa
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.
.

Your entire premise...is pure bull$hit. :oops:

There is no "assault" on free speech...simply TWO groups exercising that same right.

While hate speech is protected, as it should be under the COTUS...SO ARE THE RIGHTS OF THOSE WHO CALL IT FOR WHAT IT IS.

Your purposely pathetic (or maybe it's just incompetence?) attempt to try and imply that exercising free speech rights against those whose sole purpose is to spread hate, should for some reason be condemned for exercising their own free speech rights...simply exposes more of your already seen prejudices. :ohdear:



Then again, it looks like it was just part of your early indoctrination.

‘Before the Law Was Equal’ explores racism in court system | tbo.com (http://www.tbo.com/events/before-the-law-was-equal-explores-racism-in-court-system-20140321/)

There were no female lawyers, and it was difficult for black lawyers to practice here.

It was 1972 before the Hillsborough County Bar Association changed its charter to allow black lawyers to join, long after the Civil Rights Act of 1964.



Deepest Sincere Wishes: :wave:

[Sandtrap328]

I cannot speak for Sandtrap, but "perhaps" you are misunderstanding his meaning.

I think that the "attacks" on those "attacking" nazi slogans etc is to allow to paint a picture of the counter protesters as the bad guys and give the nazi folks credibility.

That is what our President did in both cases, and how I interpeted the OP of this thread. Do not allow anyone to know the motive behind the primary march, and then paint those who DID KNOW the purpose as the bad guys.

This is probably going to work. It will bring out more anti nazi people but that will be used over and over as an "excuse" for nazism.

I am glad you feel so comfortable with ignoring Nazi propoganda...that is how it was in the 1930's and keep in mind.

YOU CANNOT PUT THE CAP BACK ON THE BOTTLE ONCE IT IS OUT.

Free speech protects them for sure, but american values should ot allow it to become an accepted thing by our President or anyone.

Brown shirts, nazi slogans and signs, having boy scouts shout in cheers adoration for the President, led by the President should alarm every single american.

Remember, this Nazi movement was based on these marches, thESE cheers and rallies AND ATTACK ON THE MEDIA.


Sandtrap can speak for himself, but that is how I have seen this entire thread.

You can choose to not listen, they do have the right, but in my opinion, they do not need empowerment from anyone, especially the President who speaks for all of us.

Bucco,
You are more eloquent than I am - and those were my thoughts but not written as well as you did.

We must always speak out against any form of Nazism. Sitting back and ignoring it cannot be an option. If opposing hate speech is assaulting free speech, I will be assaulting it. I would be proud to have any and all who think the same linked arm in arm with me.
ST

[Carl in Tampa]

ColdNoMore

Your entire premise...is pure bull$hit. :oops:

Your purposely pathetic (or maybe it's just incompetence?) attempt to try and imply that exercising free speech rights against those whose sole purpose is to spread hate, should for some reason be condemned for exercising their own free speech rights...simply exposes more of your already seen prejudices. :ohdear:

Deepest Sincere Wishes: :wave:

Well, as you see, I opted to respond to a portion of your post, in spite of your vulgar language.

You erroneously state that I "...attempt to try and imply..." that those who are "exercising free speech rights" against those who are engaging in hate speech should be condemned for exercising their own free speech rights.

You couldn't be more wrong. And I'm beginning to wonder about your reading comprehension ability because I have repeatedly stated that this is not my position.

I would be overjoyed to see a peaceful counter-demonstration against any assembly engaged in hate speech. Remember that I am the one who conducted investigations and surveillance of neo-Nazis in my federal career. I have also done crowd control duty in riot situations where police officers near me were injured.

My criticism is of the violence committed by the counter-demonstrators. Watch the videos of the riots. A principal group that engages in violence is the Antifa, typically dressed all in black and having faces covered to avoid identification because they came with the intent to break the law. In the Boston riots virtually everyone you see committing an assault on police officers is dressed all in black.

As was stated in a previous post, the counter-demonstrators in Boston were there "to silence the racists." THAT is an assault on Free Speech.


Carl in Tampa
.
.

[Carl in Tampa]

I would not equate the Antifa group-- which looks like a bunch of extremely unorganized youth and youth-in-spirit-- with the skin heads and other neo-Nazis.

I guess you are saying that the Antifa are not as "serious" as the skin heads and neo-Nazis.

You may have that perception because Antifa has not been in the headlines as much as the others, and has no central point of organization.

But, in fact, there is a widespread network of autonomous Antifa groups that communicate through social media, and organize protests in this medium.

It is also true that Antifa groups advocate anarchism, socialism, and communism. The Antifa groups in Germany and Italy in the 1930s were anti-fascists who clashed with the followers of Hitler and Mussolini. But, they were not for the status quo, they were pushing for Communism.

Today's American Antifa often show up at demonstrations wearing all black, with masks over their faces, and carrying weapons.

Because of their frequent assaults on police officers and their support of anarchy, I regard them as Anti-American.


Carl in Tampa
.
.

[dirtbanker]

Bucco,
You are more eloquent than I am - and those were my thoughts but not written as well as you did.

We must always speak out against any form of Nazism. Sitting back and ignoring it cannot be an option. If opposing hate speech is assaulting free speech, I will be assaulting it. I would be proud to have any and all who think the same linked arm in arm with me.
STSandy, I am disappointed in your thought process. The few peoe that would attend a neo Nazi speech...were already sympathetic to that cause. Knock your self out, but you are not changing them no more than they are changing you.

Rockface- go stick your head up your ass, never mind it is already there. I hope someone successfully silences your free speech and quickly!

Carl - I see your point about the counter protesters desire to silence the free speech, because they don't agree with the cause nobody can talk about it.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

[dirtbanker]

Hey Sandy - did you speak any hateful words towards the North Vietnamese? How would you feel if somebody told you you can't speak that way?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

[ColdNoMore]

Well, as you see, I opted to respond to a portion of your post, in spite of your vulgar language.

You erroneously state that I "...attempt to try and imply..." that those who are "exercising free speech rights" against those who are engaging in hate speech should be condemned for exercising their own free speech rights.

You couldn't be more wrong. And I'm beginning to wonder about your reading comprehension ability because I have repeatedly stated that this is not my position.

I would be overjoyed to see a peaceful counter-demonstration against any assembly engaged in hate speech. Remember that I am the one who conducted investigations and surveillance of neo-Nazis in my federal career. I have also done crowd control duty in riot situations where police officers near me were injured.

My criticism is of the violence committed by the counter-demonstrators. Watch the videos of the riots. A principal group that engages in violence is the Antifa, typically dressed all in black and having faces covered to avoid identification because they came with the intent to break the law. In the Boston riots virtually everyone you see committing an assault on police officers is dressed all in black.

As was stated in a previous post, the counter-demonstrators in Boston were there "to silence the racists." THAT is an assault on Free Speech.


Carl in Tampa



Your weaseling and lying is becoming more pathetic...with every one of your posts. :oops:

The "silencing" that the overwhelming majority of counter-protestors attempted in Boston, was simply to out yell and show superior numbers against the hate-groups...and yet you still try to equivocate to make it fit your own bigotry.

In fact, let's go back to your post...that started this thread.


https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/1437625-post1.html
Now I am watching on TV a small "Free Speech" event on Boston Commons which has a counter-demonstration of over 15,000 "Black Lives Matter" and "Antifa" marchers who object to the Free Speech provision of the First Amendment, and are working to OUTLAW FREE SPEECH if they deem it to be "Hate Speech."

I support the Constitution.

Sorry dude, but anyone with even a modicum of intelligence would instantly know that while there might have been a very small number of those counter-protestors who were looking for a physical confrontation (and I condemn those)...you tried to justify your own obvious prejudice by labeling the entire group as such.

YOUR words...jerk.






Now go back and read that article the article/link regarding Hillsborough County (where you were trained), their despicable racial history and then come back and try to convince anyone...that you aren't a bigot and haven't deliberately tried to mislead.

And oh yeah, you can occasionally 'say' anything you want, but your true intent is spelled out clearly...in almost every one of your posts. :ho:

You're exactly the type that give the overwhelming number of good and decent LEO's...a bad rep.




Deepest Sincere Wishes: :wave:

[dirtbanker]

Now thats why we call her (unt...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

[Carl in Tampa]

ColdNoMore


:jester:
CDS





Well, it appears that your case of Trump Derangement Syndrome (TDS) has transmogrified into a severe case of Carl Derangement Syndrome (CDS.)

You are blinded by your unaccountable animus and your sad need to spray vitriol at me.

If only you could have managed to be civil in your posts we could have had a discussion.


Carl in Tampa
.

[8notes]

Your weaseling and lying is becoming more pathetic...with every one of your posts. :oops:

The "silencing" that the overwhelming majority of counter-protestors attempted in Boston, was simply to out yell and show superior numbers against the hate-groups...and yet you still try to equivocate to make it fit your own bigotry.

In fact, let's go back to your post...that started this thread.


https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/1437625-post1.html



Sorry dude, but anyone with even a modicum of intelligence would instantly know that while there might have been a very small number of those counter-protestors who were looking for a physical confrontation (and I condemn those)...you tried to justify your own obvious prejudice by labeling the entire group as such.

YOUR words...jerk.






Now go back and read that article the article/link regarding Hillsborough County (where you were trained), their despicable racial history and then come back and try to convince anyone...that you aren't a bigot and haven't deliberately tried to mislead.

And oh yeah, you can occasionally 'say' anything you want, but your true intent is spelled out clearly...in almost every one of your posts. :ho:

You're exactly the type that give the overwhelming number of good and decent LEO's...a bad rep.




Deepest Sincere Wishes: :wave:

:BigApplause:

[ColdNoMore]

Well, it appears that your case of Trump Derangement Syndrome (TDS) has transmogrified into a severe case of Carl Derangement Syndrome (CDS.)

You are blinded your unaccountable animus and your sad need to spray vitriol at me.

If only you could have managed to be civil in your posts we could have had a discussion.


Carl in Tampa
.

:1rotfl:

Hey smile, you're not the first one to have been outed and eviscerated with your own words...so suck it up buttercup. :D



Deepest Sincere Wishes: :wave:

[Carl in Tampa]

Let's not overlook the heroes at these demonstrations and riots.

They are the police officers who are present, not to take sides, but to maintain peace and order. For this thankless task they are reviled and assaulted.

To be particularly honored are the Black officers who go about doing their duty and protecting the hate speech groups that hold them in contempt due to the color of their skin, from counter-demonstrators who would assault the haters if given the opportunity.

A Black officer protecting the Klan is a picture of dedication to the First Amendment.

A White officer taking verbal abuse from a Black demonstrator is a picture of self-restraint and professionalism.

Carl in Tampa

.

[ColdNoMore]

Let's not overlook the heroes at these demonstrations and riots.

They are the police officers who are present, not to take sides, but to maintain peace and order. For this thankless task they are reviled and assaulted.

To be particularly honored are the Black officers who go about doing their duty and protecting the hate speech groups that hold them in contempt due to the color of their skin, from counter-demonstrators who would assault the haters if given the opportunity.

A Black officer protecting the Klan is a picture of dedication to the First Amendment.

A White officer taking verbal abuse from a Black demonstrator is a picture of self-restraint and professionalism.

Carl in Tampa

.


It's too late to try and hide now, you outed yourself in your first post...regardless of your faux accolades now. :oops:

You're correct about one thing though, both of your examples are of LEO's who should be mostly admired (although I'm trying to understand how you think the white cop is showing "restraint")...given that he is under no threat.

Oh wait, I forgot, you're the one that keeps touting your professional background with the attempt to bolster your desperate need to feel that your opinion is superior.

I'll bet there were many times, when you wished (did?) that you could go ahead and abuse your authority...simply because someone pi$$ed you off.

Silly me.




Deepest Sincere Wishes: :wave:

[Rockyrd]

Let's not overlook the heroes at these demonstrations and riots.

They are the police officers who are present, not to take sides, but to maintain peace and order. For this thankless task they are reviled and assaulted.

To be particularly honored are the Black officers who go about doing their duty and protecting the hate speech groups that hold them in contempt due to the color of their skin, from counter-demonstrators who would assault the haters if given the opportunity.

A Black officer protecting the Klan is a picture of dedication to the First Amendment.

A White officer taking verbal abuse from a Black demonstrator is a picture of self-restraint and professionalism.

Carl in Tampa

.

I realize I am just bitter, as you said, but I read every post in this thread, and unless I missed it....

You never once criticized or had a harsh word for the Nazi skinheads, or thier group. Not one that I saw.

I just find that interesting since you have, in almost every other post criticized the other group, not that they do not deserve criticism, but you "seem" to endorse the Nazi white marchers, not just thier right to March.

Understand, nobody here has defended Antifa...nobody, yet you seem very reluctant to criticize the Nazi whit nationalist movement, even though it was their march, they cleansed their Facebook page and disinvited anyone who spoke at Charlottesville (although they were pRt of the organizers and the group admitted they cancelled them only because of media coverage). Nothing but praise for police on here. So everyone is in accord EXCEPT your lack of criticism if the Nazi marchers.

Just find that curious, but then again, I am simply bitter and not up to your lofty ideals.

[ColdNoMore]

I realize I am just bitter, as you said, but I read every post in this thread, and unless I missed it....

You never once criticized or had a harsh word for the Nazi skinheads, or thier group. Not one that I saw.

I just find that interesting since you have, in almost every other post criticized the other group, not that they do not deserve criticism, but you "seem" to endorse the Nazi white marchers, not just thier right to March.

Understand, nobody here has defended Antifa...nobody, yet you seem very reluctant to criticize the Nazi whit nationalist movement, even though it was their march, they cleansed their Facebook page and disinvited anyone who spoke at Charlottesville (although they were pRt of the organizers and the group admitted they cancelled them only because of media coverage). Nothing but praise for police on here. So everyone is in accord EXCEPT your lack of criticism if the Nazi marchers.

Just find that curious, but then again, I am simply bitter and not up to your lofty ideals.

:BigApplause:

[MDLNB]

27 counter protesters were arrested, some for assaulting police officers.

I do not support the KKK/Nazis, but I also do not support the AntiFA (Anti-First Amendment) radicals either. And I do not support the BLM scumbags either.

So, for those idiots that wish to say that if I support the President, then I support the KKK and Nazis, I have preempted you. I will counter that with accusing you of supporting the radical and violent Anti-American groups out there that are tearing down statues, destroying property and assaulting those that do not agree with them. The left is Anti first amendment until proven otherwise.

[Rockyrd]

27 counter protesters were arrested, some for assaulting police officers.

I do not support the KKK/Nazis, but I also do not support the AntiFA (Anti-First Amendment) radicals either. And I do not support the BLM scumbags either.

So, for those idiots that wish to say that if I support the President, then I support the KKK and Nazis, I have preempted you. I will counter that with accusing you of supporting the radical and violent Anti-American groups out there that are tearing down statues, destroying property and assaulting those that do not agree with them. The left is Anti first amendment until proven otherwise.

You are so blatantly stupid.

What you type and reality and what others have posted are in different universes. Nobody...not one person has said what you claim, but then again, nobody expects you to understand anything.

[dbussone]

27 counter protesters were arrested, some for assaulting police officers.



I do not support the KKK/Nazis, but I also do not support the AntiFA (Anti-First Amendment) radicals either. And I do not support the BLM scumbags either.



So, for those idiots that wish to say that if I support the President, then I support the KKK and Nazis, I have preempted you. I will counter that with accusing you of supporting the radical and violent Anti-American groups out there that are tearing down statues, destroying property and assaulting those that do not agree with them. The left is Anti first amendment until proven otherwise.



Well said.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[ColdNoMore]

You are so blatantly stupid.

What you type and reality and what others have posted are in different universes. Nobody...not one person has said what you claim, but then again, nobody expects you to understand anything.

Well said.



Sent from my computer using my keyboard, brains and the truth.

[Carl in Tampa]

I don't understand how any observant person could deny that there are efforts underway in our country to suppress Free Speech.

Are they not seeing the riots in Berkeley in opposition to having Conservative speakers deliver speeches on campus? Did they not see the rioting, the fires, the destruction of property?

Anyone with a web browser can find a multitude of examples of Conservative speakers being shouted down, and even assaulted. Here are a couple of speakers that you could research.


1. Milo Yiannopoulous at Berkeley. More than 1,500 people gathered in front of UC Berkeley's Sproul Hall to protest Yiannopoulous' scheduled speech. Protesters held signs that read "Hate Speech Is Not Free Speech” and pledging to shut down the event. (They did.)

The planned speech was on the subject of "cultural appropriation" — the use of elements of one culture by members of another culture. You know, like wearing a sombrero and serape as a Halloween costume.

2. Ann Coulter at Berkeley, and other universities where she is invited and then cancelled when campus protesters raise a fuss is another example.

At Berkeley, the police received information of planned demonstrations even after Coulter's speech was canceled. They reported spending "tens of thousands" of dollars in security preparations. This is a major disincentive to inviting Conservative speakers in the future.

3. Charles Murray, co-author of the book The Bell Curve tried to deliver a speech at the Vermont campus of Middlebury College. Violent protesters drove him from the stage and physically injured a school professor who was with him.

And the "Safe Spaces" on university campuses, where controversial utterances are forbidden, are getting larger while "free speech zones" are getting smaller. In fact, on some campuses the free speech zone is only a few square feet on a campus that covers several acres.

Attacking Free Speech:

Leftists & Antifa Burn Free Speech Sign at Berkeley March4Trump Rally 3-4-17 - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DxZSRp5bUI)


Carl in Tampa

.

[Allegiance]

I don't understand how any observant person could deny that there are efforts underway in our country to suppress Free Speech.

Are they not seeing the riots in Berkeley in opposition to having Conservative speakers deliver speeches on campus? Did they not see the rioting, the fires, the destruction of property?

Anyone with a web browser can find a multitude of examples of Conservative speakers being shouted down, and even assaulted. Here are a couple of speakers that you could research.


1. Milo Yiannopoulous at Berkeley. More than 1,500 people gathered in front of UC Berkeley's Sproul Hall to protest Yiannopoulous' scheduled speech. Protesters held signs that read "Hate Speech Is Not Free Speech” and pledging to shut down the event. (They did.)

The planned speech was on the subject of "cultural appropriation" — the use of elements of one culture by members of another culture. You know, like wearing a sombrero and serape as a Halloween costume.

2. Ann Coulter at Berkeley, and other universities where she is invited and then cancelled when campus protesters raise a fuss is another example.

At Berkeley, the police received information of planned demonstrations even after Coulter's speech was canceled. They reported spending "tens of thousands" of dollars in security preparations. This is a major disincentive to inviting Conservative speakers in the future.

3. Charles Murray, co-author of the book The Bell Curve tried to deliver a speech at the Vermont campus of Middlebury College. Violent protesters drove him from the stage and physically injured a school professor who was with him.

And the "Safe Spaces" on university campuses, where controversial utterances are forbidden, are getting larger while "free speech zones" are getting smaller. In fact, on some campuses the free speech zone is only a few square feet on a campus that covers several acres.

Attacking Free Speech:

Leftists & Antifa Burn Free Speech Sign at Berkeley March4Trump Rally 3-4-17 - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DxZSRp5bUI)


Carl in Tampa

.Anything or anyone that is anti Trump is ok no matter how criminal. Very sad. This is why you can't even debate these morons. Just ignore them and treat them like the retards they are.

Example. Anyone that comes in contact with Tal. Smile and yes them till they go away, far away.

[dirtbanker]

Well said.



Sent from my computer using my keyboard, brains and the truth.

Trying to get some from Rockface...be sure to pull your teeth out!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

[Rockyrd]

I don't understand how any observant person could deny that there are efforts underway in our country to suppress Free Speech.

Are they not seeing the riots in Berkeley in opposition to having Conservative speakers deliver speeches on campus? Did they not see the rioting, the fires, the destruction of property?

Anyone with a web browser can find a multitude of examples of Conservative speakers being shouted down, and even assaulted. Here are a couple of speakers that you could research.


1. Milo Yiannopoulous at Berkeley. More than 1,500 people gathered in front of UC Berkeley's Sproul Hall to protest Yiannopoulous' scheduled speech. Protesters held signs that read "Hate Speech Is Not Free Speech” and pledging to shut down the event. (They did.)

The planned speech was on the subject of "cultural appropriation" — the use of elements of one culture by members of another culture. You know, like wearing a sombrero and serape as a Halloween costume.

2. Ann Coulter at Berkeley, and other universities where she is invited and then cancelled when campus protesters raise a fuss is another example.

At Berkeley, the police received information of planned demonstrations even after Coulter's speech was canceled. They reported spending "tens of thousands" of dollars in security preparations. This is a major disincentive to inviting Conservative speakers in the future.

3. Charles Murray, co-author of the book The Bell Curve tried to deliver a speech at the Vermont campus of Middlebury College. Violent protesters drove him from the stage and physically injured a school professor who was with him.

And the "Safe Spaces" on university campuses, where controversial utterances are forbidden, are getting larger while "free speech zones" are getting smaller. In fact, on some campuses the free speech zone is only a few square feet on a campus that covers several acres.

Attacking Free Speech:

Leftists & Antifa Burn Free Speech Sign at Berkeley March4Trump Rally 3-4-17 - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DxZSRp5bUI)


Carl in Tampa

.

Still silent on any criticism if the Nazi movement, which differs from others, nor comments on how those Nazi movements are now being slyly endorsed.

Just saying.

[ColdNoMore]

I realize I am just bitter, as you said, but I read every post in this thread, and unless I missed it....

You never once criticized or had a harsh word for the Nazi skinheads, or thier group. Not one that I saw.

I just find that interesting since you have, in almost every other post criticized the other group, not that they do not deserve criticism, but you "seem" to endorse the Nazi white marchers, not just thier right to March.

Understand, nobody here has defended Antifa...nobody, yet you seem very reluctant to criticize the Nazi whit nationalist movement, even though it was their march, they cleansed their Facebook page and disinvited anyone who spoke at Charlottesville (although they were pRt of the organizers and the group admitted they cancelled them only because of media coverage). Nothing but praise for police on here. So everyone is in accord EXCEPT your lack of criticism if the Nazi marchers.

Just find that curious, but then again, I am simply bitter and not up to your lofty ideals.

Still silent on any criticism if the Mazi movement, which differs from others, nir comments on how those Nazi movements are now being slyly endorsed.

Just saying.

Well, Carl just did it again...as you predicted. :D

He keeps chumming with red herrings...hoping no one notices what a bigot/racist he is.

I'm not sure who he is hoping takes the fake bait...but count me as one who's not hungry.

[dirtbanker]

Well Carl - if the (unt can't out word you, your just a racist...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

[Allegiance]

[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B]

Well, Carl just did it again...as you predicted. :D

He keeps chumming with red herrings...hoping no one notices what a bigot/racist he is.

I'm not sure who he is hoping takes the fake bait...but count me as one who's not hungry.The herring is coming out of c unts poopy pants.

Carl, you can't even try to reason with these ********.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170822/6e61e8c3f509989b2dca261bfba8d95e.jpg

[dbussone]

Trying to get some from Rockface...be sure to pull your teeth out!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk



You should try removing your head from your proctologist's favorite location. I agree with Carl's posts. Rockface has an issue, and apparently you do also.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[dbussone]

Well Carl - if the (unt can't out word you, your just a racist...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk



Looks like you are the racist. Carl is about as straight as they come and I thank him for his service. On the other hand I have no difficulty calling you what you are.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[ColdNoMore]

You should try removing your head from your proctologist's favorite location. I agree with Carl's posts. Rockface has an issue, and apparently you do also.


Looks like you are the racist. Carl is about as straight as they come and I thank him for his service. On the other hand I have no difficulty calling you what you are.


:1rotfl:

I thought Dirtbag and his constant attacks on me...made him your buddy? :oops:

Or did the eclipse today just mix up your ability to identify user names? :D

[Rockyrd]

:1rotfl:

I thought Dirtbag and his constant attacks on me...made him your buddy? :oops:

Or did the eclipse today just mix up your ability to identify user names? :D

Amazing...trolling while the President speaks.

These two never have anything to offer and having them trolling instead of listening to the President, I suppose is not surprising

[Chi-Town]

Looks like you are the racist. Carl is about as straight as they come and I thank him for his service. On the other hand I have no difficulty calling you what you are.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk ProDo you know how to tell who's posting? Doesn't make any difference actually.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

[Carl in Tampa]

Rockyrd

Still silent on any criticism if the Mazi movement, which differs from others, nir comments on how those Nazi movements are now being slyly endorsed.

Just saying.

Well, either you are baiting me in an attempt to get me angry, which won't work..............or you are an imbecile.

Try to avoid the mental illness of Carl Derangement Syndrome that has enveloped your ally.

Here it is. Read it carefully. Try to comprehend.

I completely abhor Nazis, neo-Nazis, skinheads, and White Supremacists of every sort including the Ku Klux Klan.

I was engaged in active opposition to these people during a long federal law enforcement career. I personally interviewed and confronted them and submitted my analysis of their participation in their hate groups to our Headquarters where the reports were permanently filed and utilized in future threat assessments regarding the security of the President.

How many neo-Nazis have you looked directly in the eye from a distance of three feet and threatened to arrest? I've been there.

I also oppose Black Racists, such as those who participate in Black Lives Matter; the Antifa, which is an anarchist Communist movement; and anyone who participates in looting, burning, and rioting, and anyone who assaults law enforcement officers.

BUT, regardless of my personal feeling towards members of these groups, I insist that they have the right to speak and be heard.

Any person of even average intelligence and with some degree of reading comprehension ability should be able to understand the foregoing statements. Let's see how it goes.


Carl in Tampa
.
.

[Rockyrd]

Well, either you are baiting me in an attempt to get me angry, which won't work..............or you are an imbecile.

Try to avoid the mental illness of Carl Derangement Syndrome that has enveloped your ally.

Here it is. Read it carefully. Try to comprehend.

I completely abhor Nazis, neo-Nazis, skinheads, and White Supremacists of every sort including the Ku Klux Klan.

I was engaged in active opposition to these people during a long federal law enforcement career. I personally interviewed and confronted them and submitted my analysis of their participation in their hate groups to our Headquarters where the reports were permanently filed and utilized in future threat assessments regarding the security of the President.

How many neo-Nazis have you looked directly in the eye from a distance of three feet and threatened to arrest? I've been there.

I also oppose Black Racists, such as those who participate in Black Lives Matter; the Antifa, which is an anarchist Communist movement; and anyone who participates in looting, burning, and rioting, and anyone who assaults law enforcement officers.

BUT, regardless of my personal feeling towards members of these groups, I insist that they have the right to speak and be heard.

Any person of even average intelligence and with some degree of reading comprehension ability should be able to understand the foregoing statements. Let's see how it goes.


Carl in Tampa
.
.

I stopped reading once you condemned the Nazi.

I don't care about your experience...you don't care about mine.

You obviously think me an imbecile for wanting to hear your condemnation.

You feel very good about yourself..I have no syndrome. You simply skip the hard parts when you respond.

NOBODY, DESPITE YOUR SAYING IT WAS SO EVER DENIED THE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH....YET YOU KEPT HARPING AS IF WE DID.

you posting only about one group and finally you condemn the nazis. Please do not accuse me or anyone if ever sayin or even insinuating any one on here supports the groups you condemn as did others. Difference was you seemed to not conpndemn or even realize the seed of Boston.

I will take my imbecile mind and leave you with those who are attacking me and Coldnomore with zero evidence...just smart ass comments.

Have a nice night.

Oh, and no, I never looked at anyone in the eye as you did. Obviously you want another thank you for your service,....so thanks. You could care less to ask anyone their background, and I, for one won't share. I HAVE and was simply gouged with obscene remarks...called a liar, etc. so I will stick with the issues, and ignore your experien if you don't mind

[Carl in Tampa]

Rockyrd

I stopped reading once you condemned the Nazi.

Well, that's obviously not true because you responded to things that appear later in my post.

I don't care about your experience...you don't care about mine.

On the contrary, I would love to know your background. If you don't want to put it out publicly, perhaps you could PM it to me.

You obviously think me an imbecile for wanting to hear your condemnation.

To the contrary, as I said, you were baiting me for a response. You succeeded.

You feel very good about yourself..I have no syndrome. You simply skip the hard parts when you respond. .

I have taken the advice of Chi-Town to shorten my responses, and since you and your ally make such long posts I have to be selective about my responses.

NOBODY, DESPITE YOUR SAYING IT WAS SO EVER DENIED THE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH....YET YOU KEPT HARPING AS IF WE DID.

No, I didn't say YOU did. I said the Black Lives Matter and the Antifa did. In a recent post I listed other examples on University Campuses.

you posting only about one group and finally you condemn the nazis. Please do not accuse me or anyone if ever sayin or even insinuating any one on here supports the groups you condemn as did others. Difference was you seemed to not conpndemn or even realize the seed of Boston.

My original post was lamenting the marchers who were trying to shut down a Free Speech meeting. It was immaterial that the sponsors of the meeting were planning hate speech. They still had the right to "peaceably assemble" as guaranteed by the same First Amendment.

I will take my imbecile mind and leave you with those who are attacking me and Coldnomore with zero evidence...just smart ass comments.

Again, I did not call you an imbecile. I realized you were baiting me into a response.......which I gave. You succeeded.

Have a nice night.

Thank you. Same to you.

Oh, and no, I never looked at anyone in the eye as you did. Obviously you want another thank you for your service,....so thanks. You could care less to ask anyone their background, and I, for one won't share. I HAVE and was simply gouged with obscene remarks...called a liar, etc. so I will stick with the issues, and ignore your experien if you don't mind

You were doing so well up to here. When I am accused of "slyly endorsing" Nazis it is quite reasonable for me to contradict the accusation by telling of my experiences which demonstrate that the accusation is not true. Surely you see that.

And then you take a cheap shot at me personally, saying I am fishing for "another thank you" for my service. Shame on you.

Carl in Tampa

.



Chi-Town, forgive the lengthy reply. I will try to do better.

Carl in Tampa

.

[dirtbanker]

Carl - yellow font is very hard to see with my old eyes, maybe blue would make more of an impact (sorry red is used by rockface all to often, and the (unt uses orange all the time - of course with a furry of emojis).

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

[dirtbanker]

Oh, and no, I never looked at anyone in the eye as you did.

I HAVE and was simply...called a liar, etc.

The sheer embarrassment of voting Dopey Smurf for president would make it hard for anyone to look someone else in the eye.

You did lie, and therefore you were called a liar...apoligize to Rubi for lying to him and maybe everyone will no longer consider you a liar...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

[Abby10]

Carl,

Thank you for setting the example for logical, reasonable, respectful, and humble dialogue. Yes, humble. Where others have called you out otherwise, I see humility. Sometimes it depends on the eyes though which one views as to what one sees - I'm sure you get the point.

The tone that you have set for your posts is the tone we should all aspire to in responding to one another.

Again, thank you.

[Allegiance]

Carl - yellow font is very hard to see with my old eyes, maybe blue would make more of an impact (sorry red is used by rockface all to often, and the (unt uses orange all the time - of course with a furry of emojis).

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using TapatalkYellow is hard to read with young eyes too. The red and orange are not worth reading though.

C unt should use poopy brown as his color. Rockhead is so old and senile that it's sad.

[Rockyrd]

Chi-Town, forgive the lengthy reply. I will try to do better.

Carl in Tampa

.

Well, all your supporters are out in strength this morning.

They praise you lavishly for what I am not sure, but they do, so congratulate on your reputation and all the rejections of me, sans any reason or justification, is noted.

It was nice to see you finally condemn the nazis, you read so much into my posts, make your "thoughts" facts and then attack me....so far, I am an imbecile and a few other choice names.

But fine....always interesting to see how, as ABBY pointed out, different people read things.

On this forum, any even perceived difference on Trump is met with vile and stupid language....no facts, but I am expected to rise to some level set by people who shun facts.

I understand how it works. Not used to anything but intelligent conversation, but hard to converse with folks who have an aversion to truth and facts.

And sharing my background will only give more ammunition to the trolls on here and you would find it boring anyway. It does not seem relevant because it is a forum for discussion of issues, not personalities but alas........I was even criticized for pointing out a poster who chronically plagarizes...not a mistake, but many times. Sort of sets the tone here....if you support Trump, you may do anything or say anything and win approval. If, as I do, support some of his "proposed" policies but strongly object to his morals and his chronic lying, then I am the bad guy for questioning that, and the trolls even ignore my statement of support at time. Just make me wonder what drives this forum......facts and discussion thereof or writings on the bathroom wall. Not seeking approval from anyone (in any way), but simply wonder about the purpose and direction of this forum and of course our country. Seems this is now a "cultural" board steeped in nothing but all the things you guys preach against....identity politics, race, nationality. I thought it was to discuss things like health care, world issues, internal politics, but it is far from that.

[Carl in Tampa]

Carl - yellow font is very hard to see with my old eyes, maybe blue would make more of an impact (sorry red is used by rockface all to often, and the (unt uses orange all the time - of course with a furry of emojis).

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

Really? I had selected yellow because I thought it was a good contrast to the green background. I find red and blue against the green background difficult to read. And of course ColdNoMore has appropriated baby-poop orange, so I avoid that.

I will experiment with other colors, or try making the yellow a bold font.

[Carl in Tampa]

Rockyrd



:jester:
CDS



.


Well, sadly I observe that the Olive Branch that I extended has been rejected due to Carl Derangement Syndrome.

Faced with another lengthy, rambling post, I will comment on only one remark. Rockyrd says, "...you read so much into my posts, make your "thoughts" facts and then attack me..."

Now, the fact is that this is exactly what Rockyrd has been doing. He ignores the plain language of my posts, and interprets them with a "twist" to make them mean something other than my plain language.

In the area of mental health there is a defense mechanism known as Projection. One variety of projection is known as Neurotic Projection. In this type of projection, people may attribute feelings, motives, or attitudes they find unacceptable in themselves to someone else, such as reading things into posts.

I'm certainly not going to articulate a diagnosis, but Rockyrd clearly has a problem. It may be as simple as reading comprehension problems. I just don't know.


Carl in Tampa

.

[Carl in Tampa]

Carl,

Thank you for setting the example for logical, reasonable, respectful, and humble dialogue. Yes, humble. Where others have called you out otherwise, I see humility. Sometimes it depends on the eyes though which one views as to what one sees - I'm sure you get the point.

The tone that you have set for your posts is the tone we should all aspire to in responding to one another.

Again, thank you.

Thank you. I try to be respectful of the views of others, and if I disagree with the view I try to assemble facts that prove a contrary position. I strive to avoid calling names and using abusive or offensive language.

On rare occasions, I have to admit to myself that some people will simply not consider alternative views, and they repeatedly post long, rambling, repetitious messages that are not worthy of further consideration or response.

I have decided to characterize those people's postings as representative of various "Derangement Syndromes." It is just my shorthand for saying that I'm not going to respond to the posting.

[Carl in Tampa]

Carl - yellow font is very hard to see with my old eyes, maybe blue would make more of an impact (sorry red is used by rockface all to often, and the (unt uses orange all the time - of course with a furry of emojis).

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

I went back in and punched my first three responses up to BOLD. Did that help?

[Allegiance]

Dumb zombieshttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170822/14b7ca208e3937a0e74debe768fb15b4.jpg

[dirtbanker]

Really? I had selected yellow because I thought it was a good contrast to the green background. I find red and blue against the green background difficult to read. And of course ColdNoMore has appropriated baby-poop orange, so I avoid that.

I will experiment with other colors, or try making the yellow a bold font.Part of my problem, is on tapatalk the background is not green it is white. Thus the yellow "bleeds" all over the screen.

That I guess could be considered a negative of tapatalk, but tapatalk does remove all the advertising (thus quicker) and It shows the posters identity (without having to quote).

Oh well.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

[Rockyrd]

Well, sadly I observe that the Olive Branch that I extended has been rejected due to Carl Derangement Syndrome.

Faced with another lengthy, rambling post, I will comment on only one remark. Rockyrd says, "...you read so much into my posts, make your "thoughts" facts and then attack me..."

Now, the fact is that this is exactly what Rockyrd has been doing. He ignores the plain language of my posts, and interprets them with a "twist" to make them mean something other than my plain language.

In the area of mental health there is a defense mechanism known as Projection. One variety of projection is known as Neurotic Projection. In this type of projection, people may attribute feelings, motives, or attitudes they find unacceptable in themselves to someone else, such as reading things into posts.

I'm certainly not going to articulate a diagnosis, but Rockyrd clearly has a problem. It may be as simple as reading comprehension problems. I just don't know.


Carl in Tampa

.

Since you have identified me as having a problem, allow me....

Carl, when you first starting in the political, I was happy because what I remembered of you was of a smart thoughtful conservative.

I find after reading your posts here that you are an egoist of the nth degree (you actually named a syndrome after yourself) and frankly, you use all the "buzz words" that are in the racist dictionary.

AT least you do not steal others words, that I am aware of as does Rubicon. But you do share the same ego system that allows you to lecture down to folks as if you had all the answers, and I assure you, that you do not

Knowing how you will react, let me say. Your lecture is wasted on me. I was a conservative LEADER for many many years. I KNOW what a Republican is supposed to represent and it is not even close to what Trump, nor you profess. The leaders in this country that I had the privilege to know represented the country with humility and especially they had a moral code. While they might stretch things in campaigns, they would rather die thaN actually lie to an american citizen or allow themselves to condone it. They would speak up. I realize times are different, but I will continue to fight HATE, DECEIT, and allowing the WH where I spent a great deal of time to be filled with such HATE.

I just wanted to take my opportunity to say what I think after reading most of your posts. You are an egoist and a racist, and while you will not agree, and perhaps think your white nationalist views are proper, they are in support of HATE and DECEIT and used to be repugnant in any Republican. I left the party this past year and am very happy and solid in that decision.

White nationalists are not new to this country, but they will never overcome the good americans who worship the country and no man, and who defend honor and truth

First President I ever met said this.....Dwight Eisenhower.......He was a good man

"
The qualities of a great man are "vision, integrity, courage, understanding, the power of articulation, and profundity of character."

PS...I will rescind the racist label and replace it with "white nationalist". Not sure what the difference is in realty, but I know many white nationalist do not like the term racist.

[Allegiance]

Since you have identified me as having a problem, allow me....

Carl, when you first starting in the political, I was happy because what I remembered of you was of a smart thoughtful conservative.

I find after reading your posts here that you are an egoist of the nth degree (you actually named a syndrome after yourself) and frankly, you use all the "buzz words" that are in the racist dictionary.

AT least you do not steal others words, that I am aware of as does Rubicon. But you do share the same ego system that allows you to lecture down to folks as if you had all the answers, and I assure you, that you do not

Knowing how you will react, let me say. Your lecture is wasted on me. I was a conservative LEADER for many many years. I KNOW what a Republican is supposed to represent and it is not even close to what Trump, nor you profess. The leaders in this country that I had the privilege to know represented the country with humility and especially they had a moral code. While they might stretch things in campaigns, they would rather die thaN actually lie to an american citizen or allow themselves to condone it. They would speak up. I realize times are different, but I will continue to fight HATE, DECEIT, and allowing the WH where I spent a great deal of time to be filled with such HATE.

I just wanted to take my opportunity to say what I think after reading most of your posts. You are an egoist and a racist, and while you will not agree, and perhaps think your white nationalist views are proper, they are in support of HATE and DECEIT and used to be repugnant in any Republican. I left the party this past year and am very happy and solid in that decision.

White nationalists are not new to this country, but they will never overcome the good americans who worship the country and no man, and who defend honor and truth

First President I ever met said this.....Dwight Eisenhower.......He was a good man

"
The qualities of a great man are "vision, integrity, courage, understanding, the power of articulation, and profundity of character."Blah blah blah blah

[Carl in Tampa]

Rockyrd

I find after reading your posts here that you are an egoist of the nth degree (you actually named a syndrome after yourself) and frankly, you use all the "buzz words" that are in the racist dictionary.

I realize times are different, but I will continue to fight HATE, DECEIT, and allowing the WH where I spent a great deal of time to be filled with such HATE.



Apparently you have a limited sense of humor. "Trump Derangement Syndrome" is a status assigned to people who oppose Trump no matter what he says or does. It is widely used, and anyone who follows politics is familiar with it.

The new category of "Carl Derangement Syndrome" is a variation on that which is used for someone who opposes me no matter what I say. It is a joke. You qualify since you refuse to accept my plain, uncomplicated English language words. You "project" a belief that I am using "racist buzz words."

Do me a favor. Identify some of those buzz words and show where I have used them in my posts. Show actual quotes found in my messages.

You spent "a great deal of time" in the White House? What would it add up to in the aggregate in hours, or days? I was assigned there for several years. I protected several different Presidents over the years, including my favorite --- Ronald Reagan.

Carl in Tampa

.

[Rockyrd]

Apparently you have a limited sense of humor. "Trump Derangement Syndrome" is a status assigned to people who oppose Trump no matter what he says or does. It is widely used, and anyone who follows politics is familiar with it.

The new category of "Carl Derangement Syndrome" is a variation on that which is used for someone who opposes me no matter what I say. It is a joke. You qualify since you refuse to accept my plain, uncomplicated English language words. You "project" a belief that I am using "racist buzz words."

Do me a favor. Identify some of those buzz words and show where I have used them in my posts. Show actual quotes found in my messages.

You spent "a great deal of time" in the White House? What would it add up to in the aggregate in hours, or days? I was assigned there for several years. I protected several different Presidents over the years, including my favorite --- Ronald Reagan.

Carl in Tampa

.

I visited there many times as I reported first to Adm Arliegh Burke and then Gen Twining when they acted as the head of JCS.

Your constant need to be sarcastic and "needle" is a bit tiresome. Of corse I did not spend years there as you did, but worked there for weeks at a time depending on what was happening. Many nights at the Naval Observatory which is where the CNO lived at that time.

Got back during my activist time in the Republican Party with certain PA VIPs. No, you certainly were there longer, and you made that clear.

I was also a fan of Reagan.....he would be disgusted at the current Oval Office. My impression, he as one of my favorites, Eisenhower was honest and cringed at deceit. That is it for my sharing. You allies and fans called me a few obscene names when this was mentioned, as you said for context.

My time working "around" the Oval was not because I was a great person. Simple happenstance. I worked in the Pentagon in the crypto area,....if you know the Pentagon, that would be 4D. Arm Burke needed some help when I first arrived..I was assigned, and he liked me. That's it.

Cannot compete with your staring down story but early on was in Nam for a short time and one terrible memory was holding the head of a great friend as he died in the mud.

[Allegiance]

I visited there many times as I reported first to Adm Arliegh Burke and then Gen Twining when they acted as the head of JCS.

Your constant need to be sarcastic and "needle" is a bit tiresome. Of corse I did not spend years there as you did, but worked there for weeks at a time depending on what was happening. Many nights at the Naval Observatory which is where the CNO lived at that time.

Got back during my activist time in the Republican Party with certain PA VIPs. No, you certainly were there longer, and you made that clear.

I was also a fan of Reagan.....he would be disgusted at the current Oval Office. My impression, he as one of my favorites, Eisenhower was honest and cringed at deceit. That is it for my sharing. You allies and fans called me a few obscene names when this was mentioned, as you said for context.

My time working "around" the Oval was not because I was a great person. Simple happenstance. I worked in the Pentagon in the crypto area,....if you know the Pentagon, that would be 4D. Arm Burke needed some help when I first arrived..I was assigned, and he liked me. That's it.

Cannot compete with your staring down story but early on was in Nam for a short time and one terrible memory was holding the head of a great friend as he died in the mud.Blah

[Carl in Tampa]

Returning to the theme of my original post, Free Speech is under assault on many fronts.

I first made the point that "counter-demonstrations" against people who are regarded as engaging in unacceptable "hate speech" are assaulting First Amendment provisions for Free Speech when the counter-demonstrators engage in violence or intimidation with the specific intent of silencing the speech they oppose.

Then in a later post I gave several examples of the assault on Free Speech on college campuses, where violence, rioting, and burning were the weapons of those opposing Conservative Speakers scheduled to give talks on campus.

Now, let's talk about people who are asserting that the First Amendment does not protect "hate speech." Most notable among this group is former Chairman of the Democratic National Committee, and former Governor of Vermont Howard Dean, who has made this claim. Other public officials, like the Mayor of Portland, Oregon, have made the same claim.

However, the Supreme Court has repeatedly invalidated laws which were intended to bridle "hate speech." One such law was Ohio's criminal syndicalism law, prohibiting public speech that advocates various illegal activities. (Brandenburg vs Ohio) Brandenburg was a KKK leader speaking at a KKK rally.

Another law prohibited "display of a symbol which "arouses anger, alarm or resentment in others on the basis of race, color, creed, religion or gender." It was used against a man who burned a cross on someone's lawn. (R.A.V. vs City of St. Paul) In a 9-0 unanimous decision, the Court ruled that the First Amendment prevents government from punishing speech and expressive conduct because it disapproves of the ideas expressed.

One last example of attempts to pass laws restricting Free Speech. When members of the Westboro Baptist Church picketed the funeral of a Marine while displaying offensive signs, such as "Thank God for Dead Soldiers," the family of the Marine sued them. (Snyder vs Phelps) The Court held that the First Amendment shields those who stage a protest at the funeral of a military service member from liability.

Now, I don't endorse any of the offensive acts described in these cases. But, I do believe most sincerely that the First Amendment to the Constitution protects offensive speech.


Carl in Tampa

.

[Rockyrd]

Returning to the theme of my original post, Free Speech is under assault on many fronts.

I first made the point that "counter-demonstrations" against people who are regarded as engaging in unacceptable "hate speech" are assaulting First Amendment provisions for Free Speech when the counter-demonstrators engage in violence or intimidation with the specific intent of silencing the speech they oppose.

Then in a later post I gave several examples of the assault on Free Speech on college campuses, where violence, rioting, and burning were the weapons of those opposing Conservative Speakers scheduled to give talks on campus.

Now, let's talk about people who are asserting that the First Amendment does not protect "hate speech." Most notable among this group is former Chairman of the Democratic National Committee, and former Governor of Vermont Howard Dean, who has made this claim. Other public officials, like the Mayor of Portland, Oregon, have made the same claim.

However, the Supreme Court has repeatedly invalidated laws which were intended to bridle "hate speech." One such law was Ohio's criminal syndicalism law, prohibiting public speech that advocates various illegal activities. (Brandenburg vs Ohio) Brandenburg was a KKK leader speaking at a KKK rally.

Another law prohibited "display of a symbol which "arouses anger, alarm or resentment in others on the basis of race, color, creed, religion or gender." It was used against a man who burned a cross on someone's lawn. (R.A.V. vs City of St. Paul) In a 9-0 unanimous decision, the Court ruled that the First Amendment prevents government from punishing speech and expressive conduct because it disapproves of the ideas expressed.

One last example of attempts to pass laws restricting Free Speech. When members of the Westboro Baptist Church picketed the funeral of a Marine while displaying offensive signs, such as "Thank God for Dead Soldiers," the family of the Marine sued them. (Snyder vs Phelps) The Court held that the First Amendment shields those who stage a protest at the funeral of a military service member from liability.

Now, I don't endorse any of the offensive acts described in these cases. But, I do believe most sincerely that the First Amendment to the Constitution protects offensive speech.


Carl in Tampa

.

Can't disagree...won't disagree.....never disagreed.

Having said that, we are not prevented from condemning a basic movement with every breath, a movement that is totally un American and morally corrupt.

When I read what is said on here, along with statements made by our President, I am allowed to be greatly alarmed that posts on here, and words from the WH are reluctant to condemn a movement based on Nazi's, but are quick to turn on United States citizens who perform tirelessly in our country...FBI, intelligence agencies, and even an ex President or war hero, and do it with no basis.

Yes, the right is there, I keep looking for the moral compass. It appears to be the season for attacking our own and our media without any merit. Having the white house whip up hate for the free press which IS honest, and has never been shown to be otherwise, attacking the people whether he likes them or not, who can help actually make legalative action possible.

But, I am the dumb one. I still think we should have new health care legislation and would have had the "leader" actually worked. He was attacking the bill, those who were working on it and spoke publicly of its "meanness"

Yes, free speech should be protected, but there seems to be more attention being paid to protecting a hate filled Nazi movement than our media, legislators, and hard working citizens if our country.

[Don Baldwin]

Can't disagree...won't disagree.....never disagreed.

Having said that, we are not prevented from condemning a basic movement with every breath, a movement that is totally un American and morally corrupt.

When I read what is said on here, along with statements made by our President, I am allowed to be greatly alarmed that posts on here, and words from the WH are reluctant to condemn a movement based on Nazi's, but are quick to turn on United States citizens who perform tirelessly in our country...FBI, intelligence agencies, and even an ex President or war hero, and do it with no basis.

Yes, the right is there, I keep looking for the moral compass. It appears to be the season for attacking our own and our media without any merit. Having the white house whip up hate for the free press which IS honest, and has never been shown to be otherwise, attacking the people whether he likes them or not, who can help actually make legalative action possible.

But, I am the dumb one. I still think we should have new health care legislation and would have had the "leader" actually worked. He was attacking the bill, those who were working on it and spoke publicly of its "meanness"

Yes, free speech should be protected, but there seems to be more attention being paid to protecting a hate filled Nazi movement than our media, legislators, and hard working citizens if our country.

Rocky...the Nazi's are the liberals on the left. They DEMAND things, they DEMAND we think certain ways, act certain ways, speak certain words...all while the "victims" get to do, say, act, as they please. They create all kinds of laws and regulations so everyone does things that THEY think is "best". Liberals have their thumb on everyone. Conservatives want to be left alone to make their own life...not ruled over in every sense.

It's the liberal way...or the highway...is it not?

[Rockyrd]

Rocky...the Nazi's are the liberals on the left. They DEMAND things, they DEMAND we think certain ways, act certain ways, speak certain words...all while the "victims" get to do, say, act, as they please. They create all kinds of laws and regulations so everyone does things that THEY think is "best". Liberals have their thumb on everyone. Conservatives want to be left alone to make their own life...not ruled over in every sense.

It's the liberal way...or the highway...is it not?

WELL, such a huge generalization. While I am conservative by nature and object to much that has gone on, we now have a President who has no legislation passed and with each days verbal attacks on individuals, he lessens the chance of passing any legislation whatsoever.....and we are a country of laws NOT men.

You support and he ran on change but he cannot do it with hate, only reason and compromise.

If you feel it can be mandated and not discussed rationally without the hate, then you actually want and enjoy the hate.

[cologal]

Rocky...the Nazi's are the liberals on the left. They DEMAND things, they DEMAND we think certain ways, act certain ways, speak certain words...all while the "victims" get to do, say, act, as they please. They create all kinds of laws and regulations so everyone does things that THEY think is "best". Liberals have their thumb on everyone. Conservatives want to be left alone to make their own life...not ruled over in every sense.

It's the liberal way...or the highway...is it not?

A Jewish friend of mine once told me when I could use a Nazi comparison as you did above. When the one you are comparing them to killed 6 million people. Since then I have never used the comparison.

COPUFF OUT WEST IN THE MILE HIGH STATE.

[Don Baldwin]

A Jewish friend of mine once told me when I could use a Nazi comparison as you did above. When the one you are comparing them to killed 6 million people. Since then I have never used the comparison.

COPUFF OUT WEST IN THE MILE HIGH STATE.

Liberals killed:

"National Right to Life estimates that, since the U.S. Supreme Court legalized abortion 43 years ago in Roe v. Wade and Doe v. Bolton , more than 58 million unborn children have lost their lives."

58,586,256 Abortions in America Since Roe v. Wade in 1973 | LifeNews.com (http://www.lifenews.com/2016/01/14/58586256-abortions-in-america-since-roe-v-wade-in-1973/)

58 million mostly white children were killed by the liberals after they fought for abortions. A few more than the 6 million claimed by the Jews.

Liberals are committing genocide on the white race.

[Carl in Tampa]

Liberals killed:

"National Right to Life estimates that, since the U.S. Supreme Court legalized abortion 43 years ago in Roe v. Wade and Doe v. Bolton , more than 58 million unborn children have lost their lives."

58,586,256 Abortions in America Since Roe v. Wade in 1973 | LifeNews.com (http://www.lifenews.com/2016/01/14/58586256-abortions-in-america-since-roe-v-wade-in-1973/)

58 million mostly white children were killed by the liberals after they fought for abortions. A few more than the 6 million claimed by the Jews.

Liberals are committing genocide on the White race.

The last few posts seem to have drifted away from the subject of the thread, Assault on Free Speech, but I thought I would make a couple of observations on the statements in yellow, above.

First, the obligatory disclaimer: I abhor abortion. I believe that the Supreme Court made a dishonest, politically motivated decision, without genuine basis, when it legalized abortion on demand.

Having said that, I believe that statistics quoted in the linked article, above, shows that Planned Parenthood is actually engaged in committing genocide on the Black race, not the White Race.

Although the report shows a breakdown of 37.6% of abortions were to White, non-Hispanic women, and 36.7% to non-Hispanic Black women, it must be put in perspective by realizing that Blacks are only 13% of the population, while Whites are 63%.

So, the abortion rate for Blacks (27.8 abortions per thousand women of reproductive age) is nearly four times that of Whites (7.7 per thousand).

Planned Parenthood was founded by Margaret Sanger, who advocated "eugenics" (improvement of the species) by reducing the birth rate of undesirables (which included low-income) who needed to be removed from the gene pool. Methods included both instruction in birth control methods and forced sterilization.

The Black culture seems incapable of realizing that abortion on demand continues to keep them very much a minority population. Down the road they may find themselves a minority in comparison to the Arab Muslims who have been flooding into our country.

Carl in Tampa

.

[Don Baldwin]

The last few posts seem to have drifted away from the subject of the thread, Assault on Free Speech, but I thought I would make a couple of observations on the statements in yellow, above.

First, the obligatory disclaimer: I abhor abortion. I believe that the Supreme Court made a dishonest, politically motivated decision, without genuine basis, when it legalized abortion on demand.

Having said that, I believe that statistics quoted in the linked article, above, shows that Planned Parenthood is actually engaged in committing genocide on the Black race, not the White Race.

Although the report shows a breakdown of 37.6% of abortions were to White, non-Hispanic women, and 36.7% to non-Hispanic Black women, it must be put in perspective by realizing that Blacks are only 13% of the population, while Whites are 63%.

So, the abortion rate for Blacks (27.8 abortions per thousand women of reproductive age) is nearly four times that of Whites (7.7 per thousand).

Planned Parenthood was founded by Margaret Sanger, who advocated "eugenics" (improvement of the species) by reducing the birth rate of undesirables (which included low-income) who needed to be removed from the gene pool. Methods included both instruction in birth control methods and forced sterilization.

The Black culture seems incapable of realizing that abortion on demand continues to keep them very much a minority population. Down the road they may find themselves a minority in comparison to the Arab Muslims who have been flooding into our country.

Carl in Tampa

.

Don't believe the numbers...

"Do ‘common welfare programs’ pay the equivalent of a $20.83-per-hour job?"

Do ‘common welfare programs’ pay the equivalent of a $20.83-per-hour job? | PolitiFact Rhode Island (http://www.politifact.com/rhode-island/statements/2015/feb/01/rhode-island-center-freedom-and-prosperity/do-common-welfare-programs-pay-equivalent-2083-hou/)

Whites are NOT 63% of the population we are now 49%.

Joe Biden "Whites will be a Minority in US by 2017 and that's a good thing " - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBTDcKkErPM)

[Sandtrap328]

The Black culture seems incapable of realizing that abortion on demand continues to keep them very much a minority population. Down the road they may find themselves a minority in comparison to the Arab Muslims who have been flooding into our country.

Carl in Tampa

.

Wow! :22yikes: That is about all that can be said for that post! There are a few other things such as "increase the meds" but I would not go there.

Wow! :22yikes:

[Carl in Tampa]

Sandtrap 328

Wow! :22yikes: That is about all that can be said for that post! There are a few other things such as "increase the meds" but I would not go there.

Wow! :22yikes:

One wonders what you deny:

That the abortion rate for Blacks (almost four times the rate for Whites) will serve to keep Blacks a minority, or

That Arab Muslims (who are not known for visiting abortion clinics) will surpass the Black population sometime in the future?

A wisecracking reply proves nothing.


Carl in Tampa

.

[Carl in Tampa]

Don Baldwin

Don't believe the numbers...

"Do ‘common welfare programs’ pay the equivalent of a $20.83-per-hour job?"

Do ‘common welfare programs’ pay the equivalent of a $20.83-per-hour job? | PolitiFact Rhode Island (http://www.politifact.com/rhode-island/statements/2015/feb/01/rhode-island-center-freedom-and-prosperity/do-common-welfare-programs-pay-equivalent-2083-hou/)

Whites are NOT 63% of the population we are now 49%.

Joe Biden "Whites will be a Minority in US by 2017 and that's a good thing " - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBTDcKkErPM)

According to official U.S. Census figures, the White population (not including Hispanic or Latino) of the United States amounts to 63.7%.

BUT, the government adds to that 8.7% who are Hispanic or Latino, because they consider those categories to be "ethnicity" and not "race."

That brings the total White population to 72.4%.

By the way, Joe Biden is an idiot.

An interesting sidelight to the census numbers shows that the lowest percentage of Whites is in the Northeast, with 18.4%. The Midwest has 24.3%; the South has 35.9%; and the West 21.4%.

Carl in Tampa

.

[Don Baldwin]

According to official U.S. Census figures, the White population (not including Hispanic or Latino) of the United States amounts to 63.7%.

BUT, the government adds to that 8.7% who are Hispanic or Latino, because they consider those categories to be "ethnicity" and not "race."

That brings the total White population to 72.4%.

By the way, Joe Biden is an idiot.

An interesting sidelight to the census numbers shows that the lowest percentage of Whites is in the Northeast, with 18.4%. The Midwest has 24.3%; the South has 35.9%; and the West 21.4%.

Carl in Tampa

.

You believe EVERY number the government publishes?

You need to get out into the real world...outside the bubble...you'll see for yourself that white people are a minority now.

"The sweeping racial changes transforming the United States come with an important demographic dimension: age. The waves of Hispanics and Asians and multiracial Americans reshaping the country’s population are full of young people, who by some measures already outnumber their white counterparts. The trend was punctuated by the arrival in 2011 of the first “majority-minority” birth cohort, the first in which the majority of U.S. babies were nonwhite minorities. Consequently, the racial makeup of the nation’s younger population is beginning to contrast sharply with that of baby boomers and seniors.

For most of U.S. history, the white population has been viewed as “mainstream” society, with sociologists viewing the assimilation of immigrants and ethnic minorities as dependent on their adoption of its way of life.1 Not coincidentally, whites were the numerically dominant racial group in the United States during that same time. (Between 1790 and 1980, whites ranged from 80 to 90 percent of the population.) But whites’ tenure as America’s mainstream population is on the wane, in a demographic sense.

The most recent information from the census and elsewhere shows how quickly the shift is happening. From 2000 to 2010, a decade during which the white population as a whole grew by just 1.2 percent, the number of white children in the United States declined by 4.3 million. Meanwhile the child populations of Hispanics, Asians, and people of two or more races were increasing. In comparative terms, whites constituted just 53 percent of America’s young people (down from nearly 70 percent in 1990) while Hispanics constituted 23 percent (up from just 12 percent). Smaller white populations already are evident in institutions that serve youth, such as elementary and secondary schools, and census projections show the white child population continuing to decline for years to come. White children will become a minority of children under age 18 well before 2020, and, soon thereafter, the white population as a whole is projected to begin to decrease.

For most of the lifetime of today’s young people—nearly one-half of whom already are members of racial minorities—America’s white population will be shrinking."

https://images.newrepublic.com/f309ba8c4de3b739ab2236025e343a70200981f5.jpeg?w=80 0&q=65&dpi=1.25&fm=pjpg&h=566



https://images.newrepublic.com/2ef66f289938c2cc38857d88606b16392c7aa225.jpeg?w=80 0&q=65&dpi=1.25&fm=pjpg&h=489

White children are the minority now and have been for the last 7 years. We are losing the country...we are being bred out. And liberals are HAPPY about it. They have NO vision of the future they have wrought.

Five Graphics That Show Why a Post-White America Is Already Here | New Republic (https://newrepublic.com/article/120370/five-graphics-show-why-post-white-america-already-here)

[Carl in Tampa]

Don Baldwin

You believe EVERY number the government publishes?

You need to get out into the real world...outside the bubble...you'll see for yourself that white people are a minority now.

"The sweeping racial changes transforming the United States come with an important demographic dimension: age. The waves of Hispanics and Asians and multiracial Americans reshaping the country’s population are full of young people, who by some measures already outnumber their white counterparts. The trend was punctuated by the arrival in 2011 of the first “majority-minority” birth cohort, the first in which the majority of U.S. babies were nonwhite minorities. Consequently, the racial makeup of the nation’s younger population is beginning to contrast sharply with that of baby boomers and seniors.

For most of U.S. history, the white population has been viewed as “mainstream” society, with sociologists viewing the assimilation of immigrants and ethnic minorities as dependent on their adoption of its way of life.1 Not coincidentally, whites were the numerically dominant racial group in the United States during that same time. (Between 1790 and 1980, whites ranged from 80 to 90 percent of the population.) But whites’ tenure as America’s mainstream population is on the wane, in a demographic sense.

The most recent information from the census and elsewhere shows how quickly the shift is happening. From 2000 to 2010, a decade during which the white population as a whole grew by just 1.2 percent, the number of white children in the United States declined by 4.3 million. Meanwhile the child populations of Hispanics, Asians, and people of two or more races were increasing. In comparative terms, whites constituted just 53 percent of America’s young people (down from nearly 70 percent in 1990) while Hispanics constituted 23 percent (up from just 12 percent). Smaller white populations already are evident in institutions that serve youth, such as elementary and secondary schools, and census projections show the white child population continuing to decline for years to come. White children will become a minority of children under age 18 well before 2020, and, soon thereafter, the white population as a whole is projected to begin to decrease.

For most of the lifetime of today’s young people—nearly one-half of whom already are members of racial minorities—America’s white population will be shrinking."

https://images.newrepublic.com/f309ba8c4de3b739ab2236025e343a70200981f5.jpeg?w=80 0&q=65&dpi=1.25&fm=pjpg&h=566



https://images.newrepublic.com/2ef66f289938c2cc38857d88606b16392c7aa225.jpeg?w=80 0&q=65&dpi=1.25&fm=pjpg&h=489

White children are the minority now and have been for the last 7 years. We are losing the country...we are being bred out. And liberals are HAPPY about it. They have NO vision of the future they have wrought.

Five Graphics That Show Why a Post-White America Is Already Here | New Republic (https://newrepublic.com/article/120370/five-graphics-show-why-post-white-america-already-here)



I really appreciate your reasoned approach to the discussion. It is in refreshing contrast to those who just throw barbs, and ignore what is said by others.

You make interesting points, even if they are off topic. Sometimes the discussion simply evolves.

Having said that, I would now point out that there is a subtle shift in your argument. You started out talking about race; you are now talking about ethnicity.

What's the difference? Well, in the standards of the United States the major races include White, Black, and Asian. They collect information on Hispanic and Latino ethnicity, but do not consider it a race.

Other examples of ethnicity are people who are Americans, but identify themselves by the national origin of their ancestors, such as Italian-American, Irish-American, etc. The largest such demographic in the United States are those who identify themselves as German-American (according to census records.)

In America all of these groups with origins in Western Europe (including Spain) are considered White.

Now, if we can agree that you are actually discussing ethnicity and not race we may be approaching some agreement in this discussion. Note that your graph is not about race, but about culture, which makes the separate category of Hispanic more appropriate.

In my travels with Presidents and Presidential Candidates, I have been to every state in the United States except Vermont, New Hampshire, and North Dakota. My experience has been that the culture, but not necessarily the racial composition, in heavily Hispanic or traditionally Hispanic areas tends to be Hispanic.

SO, perhaps we can agree that there is a cultural shift going on in the country. This was probably pioneered by Liberal college professors and Black activists who objected to study of material by and about "Dead White Europeans." Talking about Liberal Education in most of our colleges today is nonsense. It is indoctrination, not education.

But, having said that the culture is changing, I will continue to recognize the Census Report that states that the total White population is 72.4%.

[Don Baldwin]

I really appreciate your reasoned approach to the discussion. It is in refreshing contrast to those who just throw barbs, and ignore what is said by others.

You make interesting points, even if they are off topic. Sometimes the discussion simply evolves.

Having said that, I would now point out that there is a subtle shift in your argument. You started out talking about race; you are now talking about ethnicity.

What's the difference? Well, in the standards of the United States the major races include White, Black, and Asian. They collect information on Hispanic and Latino ethnicity, but do not consider it a race.

Other examples of ethnicity are people who are Americans, but identify themselves by the national origin of their ancestors, such as Italian-American, Irish-American, etc. The largest such demographic in the United States are those who identify themselves as German-American (according to census records.)

In America all of these groups with origins in Western Europe (including Spain) are considered White.

Now, if we can agree that you are actually discussing ethnicity and not race we may be approaching some agreement in this discussion. Note that your graph is not about race, but about culture, which makes the separate category of Hispanic more appropriate.

In my travels with Presidents and Presidential Candidates, I have been to every state in the United States except Vermont, New Hampshire, and North Dakota. My experience has been that the culture, but not necessarily the racial composition, in heavily Hispanic or traditionally Hispanic areas tends to be Hispanic.

SO, perhaps we can agree that there is a cultural shift going on in the country. This was probably pioneered by Liberal college professors and Black activists who objected to study of material by and about "Dead White Europeans." Talking about Liberal Education in most of our colleges today is nonsense. It is indoctrination, not education.

But, having said that the culture is changing, I will continue to recognize the Census Report that states that the total White population is 72.4%.

It's two different subjects.

There is the Negro problem. They ARE a different species and will NEVER (as a people) be able to succeed in a modern civilization. They have failed in EVERY corner of the world to become a peer of ANY race. They are ALWAYS the very bottom. Propping them up is a waste of time. We MUST admit the differences and work around them. Not pretend the differences are not there and lower all the standards for them. Do we agree?

The second subject is the Hispanic problem. Hispanics are for the most part...native Indians from central and south America. There is very little "Spanish blood" in most of them. They are at the lest a different race. Not only are they a different race, they're invading. They have dropped 50 million anchor babies here in America and are on track to becoming the absolute majority within 30 years. Owing to the condition of the border states and what a Hispanic majority becomes...I have NO faith that the future for America is a good one. I believe we'll become a Mexico II as they make America Mexican through the politicians they elect. One good thing...Hispanics don't like blacks...does anyone?...and they won't be as kind to them as we have been.

We've destroyed ourselves because we feminized and became too nice. They've taken advantage of that niceness and are successfully breeding us out.

No...Biden IS right this time. Hispanics are counted as white. They have been. That is why the numbers are skewed and it makes white look more violent and poor than they are. Go to the lockup, MOSTLY minorities. Go to the welfare office, MOSTLY minorities. You are lied to by your own government.

[ColdNoMore]

I really appreciate your reasoned approach to the discussion. It is in refreshing contrast to those who just throw barbs, and ignore what is said by others.

You make interesting points, even if they are off topic. Sometimes the discussion simply evolves.

Having said that, I would now point out that there is a subtle shift in your argument. You started out talking about race; you are now talking about ethnicity.

What's the difference? Well, in the standards of the United States the major races include White, Black, and Asian. They collect information on Hispanic and Latino ethnicity, but do not consider it a race.

Other examples of ethnicity are people who are Americans, but identify themselves by the national origin of their ancestors, such as Italian-American, Irish-American, etc. The largest such demographic in the United States are those who identify themselves as German-American (according to census records.)

In America all of these groups with origins in Western Europe (including Spain) are considered White.

Now, if we can agree that you are actually discussing ethnicity and not race we may be approaching some agreement in this discussion. Note that your graph is not about race, but about culture, which makes the separate category of Hispanic more appropriate.

In my travels with Presidents and Presidential Candidates, I have been to every state in the United States except Vermont, New Hampshire, and North Dakota. My experience has been that the culture, but not necessarily the racial composition, in heavily Hispanic or traditionally Hispanic areas tends to be Hispanic.

SO, perhaps we can agree that there is a cultural shift going on in the country. This was probably pioneered by Liberal college professors and Black activists who objected to study of material by and about "Dead White Europeans." Talking about Liberal Education in most of our colleges today is nonsense. It is indoctrination, not education.

But, having said that the culture is changing, I will continue to recognize the Census Report that states that the total White population is 72.4%.

Just the fact that you "really appreciate" anything from the most disgusting racist on this site...says everything one needs to know about you. :ohdear:


To the decent people on this site, I will take this opportunity to take a very small bow (I mean cripes, it's not like it was hard to see from the beginning) and say that in regards to 'good ol' boy Carl'...I told you so. :ho:



Deepest Sincere Wishes: :wave:

[dirtbanker]

Just the fact that you "really appreciate" anything from the most disgusting racist on this site...says everything one needs to know about you. :ohdear:


To the decent people on this site (obviously that does not pertain to me), I will take this opportunity to take a very small bow (I mean cripes, it's not like it was hard to see from the beginning) and say that in regards to'good ol' boy Carl'...I told you so.

Deepest Sincere Wishes:

Not that Carl said anything other than "appreciate a reasoned response". Any idiot (including Rockface, the boy, and wackadoodle) would recognize that is not a statement of agreement.

You just got to laugh at this (unt, she now has a stiff tongue for Carl...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

[Carl in Tampa]

ColdNoMore


:jester:
CDS



.



It may be progressive.

[Rockyrd]

I really appreciate your reasoned approach to the discussion. It is in refreshing contrast to those who just throw barbs, and ignore what is said by others.

You make interesting points, even if they are off topic. Sometimes the discussion simply evolves.

Having said that, I would now point out that there is a subtle shift in your argument. You started out talking about race; you are now talking about ethnicity.

What's the difference? Well, in the standards of the United States the major races include White, Black, and Asian. They collect information on Hispanic and Latino ethnicity, but do not consider it a race.

Other examples of ethnicity are people who are Americans, but identify themselves by the national origin of their ancestors, such as Italian-American, Irish-American, etc. The largest such demographic in the United States are those who identify themselves as German-American (according to census records.)

In America all of these groups with origins in Western Europe (including Spain) are considered White.

Now, if we can agree that you are actually discussing ethnicity and not race we may be approaching some agreement in this discussion. Note that your graph is not about race, but about culture, which makes the separate category of Hispanic more appropriate.

In my travels with Presidents and Presidential Candidates, I have been to every state in the United States except Vermont, New Hampshire, and North Dakota. My experience has been that the culture, but not necessarily the racial composition, in heavily Hispanic or traditionally Hispanic areas tends to be Hispanic.

SO, perhaps we can agree that there is a cultural shift going on in the country. This was probably pioneered by Liberal college professors and Black activists who objected to study of material by and about "Dead White Europeans." Talking about Liberal Education in most of our colleges today is nonsense. It is indoctrination, not education.

But, having said that the culture is changing, I will continue to recognize the Census Report that states that the total White population is 72.4%.

Are not all these folks you are labeling here....Americans ?

[Carl in Tampa]

Don Baldwin

It's two different subjects.

There is the Negro problem. They ARE a different species and will NEVER (as a people) be able to succeed in a modern civilization. They have failed in EVERY corner of the world to become a peer of ANY race. They are ALWAYS the very bottom. Propping them up is a waste of time. We MUST admit the differences and work around them. Not pretend the differences are not there and lower all the standards for them. Do we agree?

The second subject is the Hispanic problem. Hispanics are for the most part...native Indians from central and south America. There is very little "Spanish blood" in most of them. They are at the lest a different race. Not only are they a different race, they're invading. They have dropped 50 million anchor babies here in America and are on track to becoming the absolute majority within 30 years. Owing to the condition of the border states and what a Hispanic majority becomes...I have NO faith that the future for America is a good one. I believe we'll become a Mexico II as they make America Mexican through the politicians they elect. One good thing...Hispanics don't like blacks...does anyone?...and they won't be as kind to them as we have been.

We've destroyed ourselves because we feminized and became too nice. They've taken advantage of that niceness and are successfully breeding us out.

No...Biden IS right this time. Hispanics are counted as white. They have been. That is why the numbers are skewed and it makes white look more violent and poor than they are. Go to the lockup, MOSTLY minorities. Go to the welfare office, MOSTLY minorities. You are lied to by your own government.

No, we cannot agree that Blacks are "a different species." I accept the assertion of the Smithsonian National Museum of Natural History, to wit:

"The billions of human beings living today all belong to one species: Homo sapiens.

As in all species, there is variation among individual human beings, from size and shape to skin tone and eye color. But we are much more alike than we are different. We are, in fact, remarkably similar. The DNA of all human beings living today is 99.9% alike.

We all have roots extending back 200,000 years to the emergence of the first modern humans in Africa, and back more than 6 million years to the evolution of the earliest human species in Africa. This amazing story of adaptation and survival is written in the language of our genes, in every cell of our bodies—as well as in the fossil and behavioral evidence.

This ancient heritage is yours."

The argument about whether genetics or environment (nature or nurture) is determinative in the development and success of individuals (or even races) has been going on for centuries. We will not settle it here.

With regard to the massive influx of Hispanics from Mexico, Central, and South America, this was clearly part of Obama's plan to "fundamentally transform America." I ascribe the same motives to his move to raise the Muslim population of the country. Early indications are that Muslims are not predisposed to assimilate.

Having grown up in San Antonio, Texas, with a highly integrated White/Mexican population, and living most of my adult life in Tampa, Florida, where a tri-lingual (English/Spanish/Italian) language newspaper dominated the political reporting for decades, and where most Hispanics are from Cuba, Puerto Rico, and Spain, I am very comfortable with Hispanic influences in the culture. But, I resent the Obama effort because his method was to encourage lawlessness by illegal immigration.

Carl in Tampa

[Don Baldwin]

No, we cannot agree that Blacks are "a different species." I accept the assertion of the Smithsonian National Museum of Natural History, to wit:

"The billions of human beings living today all belong to one species: Homo sapiens.

As in all species, there is variation among individual human beings, from size and shape to skin tone and eye color. But we are much more alike than we are different. We are, in fact, remarkably similar. The DNA of all human beings living today is 99.9% alike.

We all have roots extending back 200,000 years to the emergence of the first modern humans in Africa, and back more than 6 million years to the evolution of the earliest human species in Africa. This amazing story of adaptation and survival is written in the language of our genes, in every cell of our bodies—as well as in the fossil and behavioral evidence.

This ancient heritage is yours."

The argument about whether genetics or environment (nature or nurture) is determinative in the development and success of individuals (or even races) has been going on for centuries. We will not settle it here.

With regard to the massive influx of Hispanics from Mexico, Central, and South America, this was clearly part of Obama's plan to "fundamentally transform America." I ascribe the same motives to his move to raise the Muslim population of the country. Early indications are that Muslims are not predisposed to assimilate.

Having grown up in San Antonio, Texas, with a highly integrated White/Mexican population, and living most of my adult life in Tampa, Florida, where a tri-lingual (English/Spanish/Italian) language newspaper dominated the political reporting for decades, and where most Hispanics are from Cuba, Puerto Rico, and Spain, I am very comfortable with Hispanic influences in the culture. But, I resent the Obama effort because his method was to encourage lawlessness by illegal immigration.

Carl in Tampa

"The DNA of all human beings living today is 99.9% alike."

This is NOT true...that is the OLD thinking. The politically correct thinking. "Humans" came out of Africa, mated with other "humans" who had left earlier, and became different species. Europeans mated mostly with Neanderthals and Asians with Denisovan too.

"The recent sequencing of the Neanderthal and Denisovan genomes shows possible admixture. A draft sequence publication by the Neanderthal Genome Project in May 2010 indicates some form of hybridization between archaic humans and modern humans took place after modern humans emerged from Africa. An estimated 1 to 4 percent of the DNA in Europeans and Asians (i.e. French, Chinese and Papua probands) is non-modern, and shared with ancient Neanderthal DNA and not with Sub-Saharan Africans (i.e., Yoruba and San probands),[41] while Melanesians have an additional 1–6% of Denisovan origin.[42]"

"Studies published in March 2016 suggest that modern humans bred with hominins, including Denisovans and Neanderthals, on multiple occasions.[46]"

They ARE a different species.

[Carl in Tampa]

Don Baldwin

"The DNA of all human beings living today is 99.9% alike."

This is NOT true...that is the OLD thinking. The politically correct thinking. "Humans" came out of Africa, mated with other "humans" who had left earlier, and became different species. Europeans mated mostly with Neanderthals and Asians with Denisovan too.

"The recent sequencing of the Neanderthal and Denisovan genomes shows possible admixture. A draft sequence publication by the Neanderthal Genome Project in May 2010 indicates some form of hybridization between archaic humans and modern humans took place after modern humans emerged from Africa. An estimated 1 to 4 percent of the DNA in Europeans and Asians (i.e. French, Chinese and Papua probands) is non-modern, and shared with ancient Neanderthal DNA and not with Sub-Saharan Africans (i.e., Yoruba and San probands),[41] while Melanesians have an additional 1–6% of Denisovan origin.[42]"

"Studies published in March 2016 suggest that modern humans bred with hominins, including Denisovans and Neanderthals, on multiple occasions.[46]"

They ARE a different species.


Any more discussion on this point between us would just be, "Is so." "Is not." So we may as well as wind this one up.


Carl in Tampa

.

[Don Baldwin]

Any more discussion on this point between us would just be, "Is so." "Is not." So we may as well as wind this one up.


Carl in Tampa

.

Only because you refuse to drop the politically correct dogma that's been beat into our heads our entire lives.

You go ahead...keep thinking everything is fine...while the entire country goes the way of Tampa and every other city...becoming a minority majority...and continuing to fall. Is Tampa getting better? Would you send your granddaughter to live in the black sections?

Lets visit MLK Blvd...where we will find the TRUTH about the 99%.

Lets visit the black villages...a place just like here...but 99% black. Lets visit the black Oxford...where all the black geniuses gather to improve the world. We'll also go visit all the great companies that blacks have founded...the black Intel, black Microsoft, etc.

There aren't ANY? No a surprise to me, I know they're not us...a different species...maybe YOU can explain it without blaming white people. If EVERYTHING wrong with blacks is white people's fault...we are hardly equal.

You can SAY they're equal...every article on the internet can SAY they are equal...but the proof is in real life...in their neighborhoods, in their schools, in the FACT that blacks are the ALWAYS the lowest rung in EVERY society. The proof of what they REALLY are can be found on MLK Blvd in any town/city.

Why is everyone afraid to go down to MLK Blvd at midnight to visit with our peers? Because everyone KNOWS they are dangerous animals.

Being poor doesn't make you violent...but being violent WILL make you poor. And THAT is why blacks never succeed.

[Carl in Tampa]

Don Baldwin


:swear:





Let it go. I'm not going to get into a circular argument with you.

It's almost as bad as trying to engage ColdNoMore, except that he has CSD and insists that I am a racist, while you think that I defend everything Blacks do, and you are fixated on a belief that Blacks are not homo sapiens.

It's strange that two different people can read the same postings and come to such opposite opinions.

But, in common with ColdNoMore, you attribute to me attitudes, beliefs, and positions that I have never articulated, and then expect me to defend them.

It's not going to happen.


Carl in Tampa

.

[Don Baldwin]

Let it go. I'm not going to get into a circular argument with you.

It's almost as bad as trying to engage ColdNoMore, except that he has CSD and insists that I am a racist, while you think that I defend everything Blacks do, and you are fixated on a belief that Blacks are not homo sapiens.

It's strange that two different people can read the same postings and come to such opposite opinions.

But, in common with ColdNoMore, you attribute to me attitudes, beliefs, and positions that I have never articulated, and then expect me to defend them.

It's not going to happen.


Carl in Tampa

.

Blacks are not "us"...they're not white nor Asian...blacks are an archaic early human. one step below "us", the other races. We ALL have up to 5% DNA that blacks do not have. We have different ancestors.

What you are doing is calling your next door neighbor a "relative". If you go back FAR enough...you are related. But they are not a "relative" because you are Italian and they are Nordic. Just because you SAY you are related, doesn't make it so. You can claim your dog is an equal, it is not. You can claim negros are human but genetic testing and categorizing proves they are not. 23andme is the WORST thing that could happen for blacks...it PROVES that they are not "us"...they are DIFFERENT from EVERY other race. Genetically. And my God...LOOK AT THEM...they don't look like ANY other race.

[Carl in Tampa]

Don Baldwin

:cus:

What you are doing is calling your next door neighbor a "relative".

:cus:



"Whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.” --- Jesus Christ, Matthew 12:50

"There is no Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus." --- The Apostle Paul, Galatians 3:28

"God has shown me that I should not call any man unholy or unclean." --- The Apostle Peter, Acts 10:28

I am a Christian. The issue of race is settled for me.


Carl in Tampa

.

[rubicon]

Blacks are not "us"...they're not white nor Asian...blacks are an archaic early human. one step below "us", the other races. We ALL have up to 5% DNA that blacks do not have. We have different ancestors.

What you are doing is calling your next door neighbor a "relative". If you go back FAR enough...you are related. But they are not a "relative" because you are Italian and they are Nordic. Just because you SAY you are related, doesn't make it so. You can claim your dog is an equal, it is not. You can claim negros are human but genetic testing and categorizing proves they are not. 23andme is the WORST thing that could happen for blacks...it PROVES that they are not "us"...they are DIFFERENT from EVERY other race. Genetically. And my God...LOOK AT THEM...they don't look like ANY other race.

My friend your comments struck a note, actually a reminder of past events, events and cause me to speak up.

Many years ago, I had been promoted to our Memphis office with responsibility for for Memphis, Northern Mississippi and all of Arkansas.

A black kid worked in office supply and since it was across the hall I needed supplies in a hurry so walked across the hall to get what I needed.

I entered and watched and heard this black kid's supervisor berating him because he wore cowboy boots. This white supervisor said "Who ever heard of a black cowboy?"

Knowing that the black kid was at a distinct disadvantage I quickly spoke up and looking at the black kid said "you might tell your boss if it weren't for the fact that he got all of his history from comic books he would have known that half of the old west cowboy population were black and hispanic".

Or under the affirmative action program I was required to hire a black male. I did. Both he and his wife held post graduate degrees.

I met resistance from my staff and from my customers. My customers would call me and tell me they refused to work with this arrogant so and so. I replied he was quite qualified and that I would lose credibility as a manager involving myself in racial politics.

My staff pulled what the left is doing today resistance and I spoke with each of them privately. the ringleader of the bunch was a north Mississippi lad. When I said we needed to work together as a team he replied "they all sub-human" I recognized what I was up against and simply told him if his personal beliefs interfered with business then we were going to have a problem.

This same guy was upset because I assigned a black female some of his duties. I did so because he allowed everyone to walk right over him and of the staff this black female was more assertive.

Much to my surprise a black female from another department came up to me and said "You are so much different than any white person I ever met." I was in a word "dumbfounded" because i was not on any campaign just trying to do my job fairly objectively professionally

My boss who was more interested in making friends and influencing people, and also a bigot ( a good-old boy), played along with my staff pitting them against me

I accepted a promotion back north because I knew that this office's undercurrent was very racially oriented and that there was no way I would have won

So my friend what you speak to on this forum most people won't buy and it is because your words imply hatred and absolutism.

Martin Luther King did practice non-violence to his credit, and he was 100% correct in stating that "a man should be judged by his character and not the color of his skin".

I harbor you no ill will and I hope someday you will find it in your heart to learn to accept that many people of color make a positive contribution to our society.

Personal Best Regards:

[Don Baldwin]

"Whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.” --- Jesus Christ, Matthew 12:50

"There is no Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus." --- The Apostle Paul, Galatians 3:28

"God has shown me that I should not call any man unholy or unclean." --- The Apostle Peter, Acts 10:28

I am a Christian. The issue of race is settled for me.


Carl in Tampa

.


Carl...you've fallen for TWO of the "great lies"...equality...AND religion.

You're one of Barnam's "suckers".

My friend your comments struck a note, actually a reminder of past events, events and cause me to speak up.

Many years ago, I had been promoted to our Memphis office with responsibility for for Memphis, Northern Mississippi and all of Arkansas.

A black kid worked in office supply and since it was across the hall I needed supplies in a hurry so walked across the hall to get what I needed.

I entered and watched and heard this black kid's supervisor berating him because he wore cowboy boots. This white supervisor said "Who ever heard of a black cowboy?"

Knowing that the black kid was at a distinct disadvantage I quickly spoke up and looking at the black kid said "you might tell your boss if it weren't for the fact that he got all of his history from comic books he would have known that half of the old west cowboy population were black and hispanic".

Or under the affirmative action program I was required to hire a black male. I did. Both he and his wife held post graduate degrees.

I met resistance from my staff and from my customers. My customers would call me and tell me they refused to work with this arrogant so and so. I replied he was quite qualified and that I would lose credibility as a manager involving myself in racial politics.

My staff pulled what the left is doing today resistance and I spoke with each of them privately. the ringleader of the bunch was a north Mississippi lad. When I said we needed to work together as a team he replied "they all sub-human" I recognized what I was up against and simply told him if his personal beliefs interfered with business then we were going to have a problem.

This same guy was upset because I assigned a black female some of his duties. I did so because he allowed everyone to walk right over him and of the staff this black female was more assertive.

Much to my surprise a black female from another department came up to me and said "You are so much different than any white person I ever met." I was in a word "dumbfounded" because i was not on any campaign just trying to do my job fairly objectively professionally

My boss who was more interested in making friends and influencing people, and also a bigot ( a good-old boy), played along with my staff pitting them against me

I accepted a promotion back north because I knew that this office's undercurrent was very racially oriented and that there was no way I would have won

So my friend what you speak to on this forum most people won't buy and it is because your words imply hatred and absolutism.

Martin Luther King did practice non-violence to his credit, and he was 100% correct in stating that "a man should be judged by his character and not the color of his skin".

I harbor you no ill will and I hope someday you will find it in your heart to learn to accept that many people of color make a positive contribution to our society.

Personal Best Regards:

A very few...1%...MOST are as worthless as a dead dog.

Disagree? Lets go down to MLK Blvd and see for ourselves how equal they are.

You COULD have gotten a white person to do ANY of those things...better. Everyone makes a big deal over "their black experience" with one or two of them. How about the 99%? What is your experience with them? Lets go meet the 99% down on MLK Blvd.

[Abby10]

"Whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.” --- Jesus Christ, Matthew 12:50

"There is no Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus." --- The Apostle Paul, Galatians 3:28

"God has shown me that I should not call any man unholy or unclean." --- The Apostle Peter, Acts 10:28

I am a Christian. The issue of race is settled for me.


Carl in Tampa

.


You speak my language, Carl. Wish I would have thought to counter this with the same type of response long ago. Thank you for doing so.

[Don Baldwin]

"Whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.” --- Jesus Christ, Matthew 12:50

"There is no Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus." --- The Apostle Paul, Galatians 3:28

"God has shown me that I should not call any man unholy or unclean." --- The Apostle Peter, Acts 10:28

I am a Christian. The issue of race is settled for me.


Carl in Tampa

.


You keep insisting that negros are humans. They are not. Genetically they're almost as different as a chimp, our SECOND closest relative. Did Jesus say "treat the chimps as you would your own"? No, in fact, in the OT, God says..."I give you these things to use"...meaning the plants and animals.

Negros are the "missing link" between the true humans and the other great apes. Talking apes in a sense.

The negroids are NOT us...we differ by up to 5%...that's 1/20th...it's a lot.

IF BLACKS WERE SUCCESSFUL ANYWHERE, IN ANY COUNTRY, AMONG ANY RACE...I would consider their equality. But I don't see that. I see than merely existing wherever they are. They NEVER excel as a people. They're NEVER at the top, and always at the bottom. The real world and their position in it...proves they are not equals. 1% may be equal but the baggage of the other 99% living along MLK Blvd isn't worth it. Blacks are a dead end offshoot. Like the Neanderthals and Denisovans. If we'd found them earlier, before becoming "civilized" and realizing their usefulness...we'd have killed them off like we did the other two archaic humans.

Negroids look less like us than the Neanderthal. You can see their features in whites. You can see the Denisovan features in Asians. Whites and Asians are closer genetically. Blacks are DISTINCT with no hybridization...or an unknown ancestor. Many waves of "humans" came out of Africa over a very long time. The longer they were away...the more the environment and social preferences changed them. We truly became by ANY non-political measure...different species.

And I'll say it again...religion...really Carl? You REALLY believe that stuff? To which of the 5,000 sects of Christianity alone do you subscribe? Do you follow ALL of the Bible Carl? Do you follow ALL of God's laws Carl? I doubt it...I bet you're a relativist...you pick and choose, twist meanings to fit your own narrative...do you? It's why there ARE 5,000 different sects of Christianity...everyone wants to make it what they want it to be.

[Wiotte]

You keep insisting that negros are humans. They are not. Genetically they're almost as different as a chimp, our SECOND closest relative. Did Jesus say "treat the chimps as you would your own"? No, in fact, in the OT, God says..."I give you these things to use"...meaning the plants and animals.



Negros are the "missing link" between the true humans and the other great apes. Talking apes in a sense.



The negroids are NOT us...we differ by up to 5%...that's 1/20th...it's a lot.



IF BLACKS WERE SUCCESSFUL ANYWHERE, IN ANY COUNTRY, AMONG ANY RACE...I would consider their equality. But I don't see that. I see than merely existing wherever they are. They NEVER excel as a people. They're NEVER at the top, and always at the bottom. The real world and their position in it...proves they are not equals. 1% may be equal but the baggage of the other 99% living along MLK Blvd isn't worth it. Blacks are a dead end offshoot. Like the Neanderthals and Denisovans. If we'd found them earlier, before becoming "civilized" and realizing their usefulness...we'd have killed them off like we did the other two archaic humans.



Negroids look less like us than the Neanderthal. You can see their features in whites. You can see the Denisovan features in Asians. Whites and Asians are closer genetically. Blacks are DISTINCT with no hybridization...or an unknown ancestor. Many waves of "humans" came out of Africa over a very long time. The longer they were away...the more the environment and social preferences changed them. We truly became by ANY non-political measure...different species.



And I'll say it again...religion...really Carl? You REALLY believe that stuff? To which of the 5,000 sects of Christianity alone do you subscribe? Do you follow ALL of the Bible Carl? Do you follow ALL of God's laws Carl? I doubt it...I bet you're a relativist...you pick and choose, twist meanings to fit your own narrative...do you? It's why there ARE 5,000 different sects of Christianity...everyone wants to make it what they want it to be.



Will the REAL Jesus please stand up.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170826/29c182b291819b8870d2759d35d5bc8f.jpg


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[Sandtrap328]

To All Posters of Political Forum -

Put Don Baldwin on your Ignore list. Without anyone to read his repugnant posts, he will go away.

Thank you.

ST

[Wiotte]

To All Posters of Political Forum -



Put Don Baldwin on your Ignore list. Without anyone to read his repugnant posts, he will go away.



Thank you.



ST



I disagree. Donny is our devils advocate. Challenges us to dig deep into our thoughts. Without people like him there is no debate, only mutual admiration.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Don Baldwin]

Will the REAL Jesus please stand up.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170826/29c182b291819b8870d2759d35d5bc8f.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sure wasn't this:

https://dianabuja.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/tribespeople-of-bopoto-northern-congo-with-sharpened-teeth-c-1912-sir-harry-hamilton-johnston1.jpg

[Wiotte]

Sure wasn't this:



https://dianabuja.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/tribespeople-of-bopoto-northern-congo-with-sharpened-teeth-c-1912-sir-harry-hamilton-johnston1.jpg



23andMe would most certainly prove sub Saharan segments within many North Africans.


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[Don Baldwin]

I disagree. Donny is our devils advocate. Challenges us to dig deep into our thoughts. Without people like him there is no debate, only mutual admiration.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm being set up...

23andMe would most certainly prove sub Saharan segments within many North Africans.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yup...

Well wiotte, lets take a look...a genetic map of the world:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/03/24/19/328627D100000578-3507993-Scientists_have_produced_new_maps_showing_the_leve ls_of_Neandert-a-33_1458847022419.jpg

Africa stands apart...

https://evolutionistx.files.wordpress.com/2016/03/picture-12.png

Again...look at central Africa...where the slaves came from..."unnamed archaic"

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/b5/53/8b/b5538ba2b25aa3180455029a1e28e612.png

Negros are not us.

[Taltarzac725]

I disagree. Donny is our devils advocate. Challenges us to dig deep into our thoughts. Without people like him there is no debate, only mutual admiration.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

These are not deep thoughts by Don Baldwin. These are theories from Social Darwinism which are associated with the Nazi Party, bad science, and colonialism.

[Wiotte]

These are not deep thoughts by Don Baldwin. These are theories from Social Darwinism which are associated with the Nazi Party, bad science, and colonialism.



I never said HE had deep thoughts. He challenges us to dig into OUR thoughts on such matters.


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[Wiotte]

These are not deep thoughts by Don Baldwin. These are theories from Social Darwinism which are associated with the Nazi Party, bad science, and colonialism.



His thoughts are shallow, only scratch the surface on this very complicated and multi layered subject.


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[Wiotte]

These are not deep thoughts by Don Baldwin. These are theories from Social Darwinism which are associated with the Nazi Party, bad science, and colonialism.



Donny is the kind of guy you would put on the front lines to use as cannon fodder.


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[Chi-Town]

To All Posters of Political Forum -

Put Don Baldwin on your Ignore list. Without anyone to read his repugnant posts, he will go away.

Thank you.

STPosters with continuous dialogues with Donny B not only encourage him but make themselves appear complicit.

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[Don Baldwin]

His thoughts are shallow, only scratch the surface on this very complicated and multi layered subject.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well then...lets hear your views.

Are you going to start posting your mom again? You already have quite a few schizophrenic posts today...the last 3 in fact.

Put up or shut up wiotte.

[Wiotte]

Posters with continuous dialogues with Donny B not only encourage him but make themselves appear complicit.

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Complicit implies involvement in a criminal activity. This is a discussion with a person who looks at US from the most basic instincts we all share.


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[Taltarzac725]

Posters with continuous dialogues with Donny B not only encourage him but make themselves appear complicit.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

He is on my Ignore List. Stays on it most of the time. I View Post once in a while to see if he has anything worthwhile to say. I do not think he even talks to people of color at all or maybe he is just someone with no empathy for other people.

[Wiotte]

Well then...lets hear your views.



Are you going to start posting your mom again? You already have quite a few schizophrenic posts today...the last 3 in fact.



Put up or shut up wiotte.



Switching sides in an argument stimulates thought. You should try it.


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[Don Baldwin]

Switching sides in an argument stimulates thought. You should try it.


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Ah no wiotte...maybe in debate class...but in the real world...there is truth and untruth...they don't switch on a whim.

My thoughts were stimulated when I weighed the evidence and came to a decision. MY decision.

Who TOLD you what to think about it? Some "authority" weighed the evidence for you? Well...they lied.

If you think I'm wrong ALL you have to do is find a black villages, a black Oxford, a black Intel, a black Einstein. ALL you have to so is SHOW US that they are in fact equal...and you're not just saying it....because they SHOULD be.

They're not and they shouldn't be "equal" because they're not us, not the same species...are incapable of what we are. Don't you remember growing up? The black kids weren't the smartest...they were the idiots. They HAD the same opportunity as you and I. Blame the parents? OK...stupid, inferior, different species parents had stupid, inferior, different species kids who will be just as stupid and do just as stupid things.

You can't get a human by breeding dogs. You can't get a human by breeding negros. It CAN'T happen. They are different species. Negros are part of the missing link.

[dirtbanker]

He is on my Ignore List. Stays on it most of the time. I View Post once in a while to see if he has anything worthwhile to say. I do not think he even talks to people of color at all or maybe he is just someone with no empathy for other people.
What? He does not feel sorry for losers?



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[Wiotte]

Ah no wiotte...maybe in debate class...but in the real world...there is truth and untruth...they don't switch on a whim.

My thoughts were stimulated when I weighed the evidence and came to a decision. MY decision.

Who TOLD you what to think about it? Some "authority" weighed the evidence for you? Well...they lied.

If you think I'm wrong ALL you have to do is find a black villages, a black Oxford, a black Intel, a black Einstein. ALL you have to so is SHOW US that they are in fact equal...and you're not just saying it....because they SHOULD be.

They're not and they shouldn't be "equal" because they're not us, not the same species...are incapable of what we are. Don't you remember growing up? The black kids weren't the smartest...they were the idiots. They HAD the same opportunity as you and I. Blame the parents? OK...stupid, inferior, different species parents had stupid, inferior, different species kids who will be just as stupid and do just as stupid things.

You can't get a human by breeding dogs. You can't get a human by breeding negros. It CAN'T happen. They are different species. Negros are part of the missing link.



Your thoughts are in a very narrow band. Do you want to be labeled narrow minded ? I think you already are. You've got a brain, use it.


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[Chi-Town]

Complicit implies involvement in a criminal activity. This is a discussion with a person who looks at US from the most basic instincts we all share.


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Partial credit

"Involved with others in an activity that is unlawful or morally wrong."

Remember Ivanka's take on it?

Complicit - SNL - YouTube (https://youtu.be/F7o4oMKbStE)

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[Chi-Town]

He is on my Ignore List. Stays on it most of the time. I View Post once in a while to see if he has anything worthwhile to say. I do not think he even talks to people of color at all or maybe he is just someone with no empathy for other people.If you quit smoking you can't have a cigarette every once in a while. It's a concept you have yet to comprehend.

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[Taltarzac725]

If you quit smoking you can't have a cigarette every once in a while. It's a concept you have yet to comprehend.

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I put people on the Ignore List if they have nothing to say that is worthwhile. You have to check and see if they have anything to add once in a while. I have though I hope given up on looking at Allegiance and Dirtbanker's posts. They are not worth any more of my time and I do not need the stress these people present with their constant trolling personal attacks. They both should have been booted long ago off of Talk of the Villages.

[rubicon]

The poster who goes by the user name Don Baldwin is never going to be taken seriously because he had long ago lost his objectivity. He deals in absolutism.

He certainly has the right to his opinion but his opinion is one I do not share. people on different philosophical planes will never agree. We are at an impasse.

Personal Best Regards:

[Chi-Town]

I put people on the Ignore List if they have nothing to say that is worthwhile. You have to check and see if they have anything to add once in a while. I have though I hope given up on looking at Allegiance and Dirtbanker's posts. They are not worth any more of my time and I do not need the stress these people present with their constant trolling personal attacks. They both should have been booted long ago off of Talk of the Villages.Here is the gIst of every Donny B post: Mexicans will be the majority and take a walk on MLK Blvd. That's it. No need to peek. That's all there is.

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[Carl in Tampa]

"Whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.” --- Jesus Christ, Matthew 12:50

"There is no Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus." --- The Apostle Paul, Galatians 3:28

"God has shown me that I should not call any man unholy or unclean." --- The Apostle Peter, Acts 10:28

I am a Christian. The issue of race is settled for me.


Carl in Tampa


Don Baldwin

Carl...you've fallen for TWO of the "great lies"...equality...AND religion.

You're one of Barnam's "suckers".




Having introduced you to my Christian principles on the matter of race, now I will tell you about my relationships "under the badge."

I regard every man and woman serving in law enforcement to be my brother and my sister. We are members of a special fraternity that is devoted to maintaining civil order and the very nature of our civilization.

While on the job we experience traumatic events that are so horrifying that civilians cannot imagine them, and they cannot be depicted on television. After retiring we continue our close association in order to support each other in dealing with post-traumatic flashbacks of our experiences.

I'm sure that you will be aghast when you click on the photo below and meet my brother, but please do so.


Carl in Tampa
.
.

[Carl in Tampa]

Taltarzac725

I have though I hope given up on looking at Allegiance and Dirtbanker's posts. They are not worth any more of my time and I do not need the stress these people present with their constant trolling personal attacks. They both should have been booted long ago off of Talk of the Villages.

This has the sound of intolerance, and the suppression of Free Speech. (Oh, look. We are back on topic.)

I imagine that "these people" could initiate a pretty good sized counter-movement to have you "booted off" Talk of the Villages.

Be careful what you wish for.


Carl in Tampa

.

[Don Baldwin]

The poster who goes by the user name Don Baldwin is never going to be taken seriously because he had long ago lost his objectivity. He deals in absolutism.

He certainly has the right to his opinion but his opinion is one I do not share. people on different philosophical planes will never agree. We are at an impasse.

Personal Best Regards:

Blacks ABSOLUTELY destroy EVERY neighborhood they take over. Blacks ABSOLUTELY destroy EVERY school they take over. Blacks ABSOLUTELY destroy EVERY town and city they take over. Blacks ABSOLUTELY destroy EVERY country they take over. So yes...I'm ABSOLUTELY sure I'm right.

But I'm correct and you are not. If you let go of the dogma, the propaganda...if you go down to MLK Blvd...you will see how wrong you were all this time. 1% may be equal...but not the 99%.

This has the sound of intolerance, and the suppression of Free Speech. (Oh, look. We are back on topic.)

I imagine that "these people" could initiate a pretty good sized counter-movement to have you "booted off" Talk of the Villages.

Be careful what you wish for.


Carl in Tampa

.

Suppression is what the liberals do. THEY are the true Nazi's...wanting to control everything and everybody. A rule, a law for everything. Can't do this, can't do that...have to do this...have to do that...must include everyone.

[Carl in Tampa]

Don Baldwin


:rant-rave:
RDS





I guess it's time to make the diagnosis:

:rant-rave:

Racial Derangement Syndrome


Carl in Tampa

.

[Taltarzac725]

This has the sound of intolerance, and the suppression of Free Speech. (Oh, look. We are back on topic.)

I imagine that "these people" could initiate a pretty good sized counter-movement to have you "booted off" Talk of the Villages.

Be careful what you wish for.


Carl in Tampa

.

Allegiance and Dirtbanker have posted hundreds of harassing and insulting personal attacks on me. That is against the law in Florida.
Statutes & Constitution
:View Statutes
:

Online Sunshine (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0784/Sections/0784.048.html) Not that it is prosecuted all that often unless physical harm and kids are involved. But this kind of behavior is not allowed on most of the Internet resources I have been on. There are limits to free speech especially when breaking the law through long term harassment is involved. This kind of harassment would get them booted off of the Regular Forum but it is allowed on the Political Forum.

I have not done anything remotely warranting getting booted off of Talk of the Villages. Allegiance and Dirtbanker have done this and repeatedly for months. Many people are aware of this bullying and harassment by Allegiance and Dirtbanker. It is morally repugnant.

I just Ignore these two people now. As the moderator suggested here--

1) The political forum is NOT moderated. If you do not like the discussions in the political forum you should unsubscribe and remove yourself from them. 2) Your disagreements and tone from the political forum should NOT carry over into the main moderated forums. Infractions and user account suspensions will be issued if this is necessary to maintain the integrity of the TOTV website non political forums. 3) If you do not like the discussions or interactions with any specific user(s) we suggest you add them to your 'Ignore List' which is a feature of the website (click on usercp to add a user) so you do not have to interact with anyone that YOU do not choose to interact with. Even though YOU as the user must make the decision to be subscribed to the political forum and if you are going to add a user to your ignore list we strongly encourage those who do remain for all that is American, have mature civil discussions about viewpoints without lowering their own personal beliefs, standards and morals. If you can't you should consider removing yourself from the political forum.

[dirtbanker]

Why don't you post a link for the law cited, just in case Carl is really bored...

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[dirtbanker]

Oh and be sure to tell him all about your 666 241 project!

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[Taltarzac725]

"Whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.” --- Jesus Christ, Matthew 12:50

"There is no Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus." --- The Apostle Paul, Galatians 3:28

"God has shown me that I should not call any man unholy or unclean." --- The Apostle Peter, Acts 10:28

I am a Christian. The issue of race is settled for me.


Carl in Tampa





Having introduced you to my Christian principles on the matter of race, now I will tell you about my relationships "under the badge."

I regard every man and woman serving in law enforcement to be my brother and my sister. We are members of a special fraternity that is devoted to maintaining civil order and the very nature of our civilization.

While on the job we experience traumatic events that are so horrifying that civilians cannot imagine them, and they cannot be depicted on television. After retiring we continue our close association in order to support each other in dealing with post-traumatic flashbacks of our experiences.

I'm sure that you will be aghast when you click on the photo below and meet my brother, but please do so.


Carl in Tampa
.
.



My late younger brother married a Jamaican woman ten + years ago. Some of her relatives live in the Tampa area even one-- her twenty something son-- that was in the movie August Rush with Robin Williams. Some of them are in St Petersburg and Pinellas Park. And a few are still back near Kingston, Jamaica.

My nephews are American born as far as I know. At least the one that was here in the Villages about a month ago for his 15th birthday. He wanted to spent it with us.

They have talked a lot with me about race in the US. And my brother and his wife encountered a lot of racism from both sides because of their mixed marriage. Some of this was in the Villages; and some in St. Petersburg, Pinellas Park, and Tampa. They lived in west Tampa for a while close to a huge confederate flag that we would pass when going to their house.

I met a lot of these people in my younger brother's funeral in Pinellas Park, FL in December of 2014. He had a very troublesome alcohol addiction. He was an extremely talented computer programmer working for banks in the Tampa-St Petersburg area when he was sober.

He was a student of Mrs. Barbara Mitchell at Earl Wooster High School in Reno, Nevada around 1978-1979 so I could talk to him about my 224 613 Project. He met the Tour de France winner Greg LeMond who attended Earl Wooster High School. I had his sister in some of my classes. Greg LeMond - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_LeMond) Tour de France - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tour_de_France)

[Taltarzac725]

Here is the gIst of every Donny B post: Mexicans will be the majority and take a walk on MLK Blvd. That's it. No need to peek. That's all there is.

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That is what most of his posts say. :read:

[Rockyrd]

Speaking of FREE SPEECH....this is how Sheriff Arpaio is described almost universally, excepting Fox and their commentators......

"Like Trump, Arpaio regards reporters, activists, and critics of his policies as personal enemies as well as enemies of the people. The Justice Department investigation found that his department had “engaged in a pattern or practice of retaliating against individuals for exercising their First Amendment right to free speech.” It had “arrested individuals without cause, filed meritless complaints against the political adversaries of Sheriff Arpaio, and initiated unfounded civil lawsuits and investigations against individuals critical of MCSO policies and practices.” As Finnegan wrote, when the Phoenix New Times ran an investigation of Arpaio’s real-estate dealings that included his home address, the paper received a “broad subpoena, demanding, among other things, the Internet records of all visitors to its Web site in the previous two and a half years.” Sheriff’s deputies then “staged late-night raids on the homes of Michael Lacey and James Larkin, executives of Village Voice Media, which owns the New Times. The deputies arrested both men for, they said, violating grand-jury secrecy. (The county attorney declined to prosecute, and it turned out that the subpoenas were issued unlawfully.)” Local activists who applauded when someone made critical remarks about Arpaio at a Board of Supervisors meeting were arrested and charged with disorderly conduct. Arpaio had a private investigator follow the wife of a judge who had ruled against him. And so on.
Plenty of Maricopa County’s residents evidently liked Arpaio’s “colorful” reputation as America’s toughest sheriff. Crime rates in the county decreased during some years of his tenure, though crime rates declined across the country, too, so it would be difficult to ascribe the reduction to Arpaio’s policing practices. And his “toughness” came at considerable cost to the taxpayers, who have had to pay for the tens of millions of dollars it has cost the county to respond to lawsuits against the former sheriff. Meanwhile, reporting by the Associated Press and several Arizona media outlets revealed that Arpaio's department, preoccupied with going after illegal immigration, had failed to properly investigate some four hundred sex crimes over a three-year period in the mid-two-thousands."

Why Does Donald Trump Like Sheriff Joe Arpaio? | The New Yorker (https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/why-does-donald-trump-like-sheriff-joe)

Quite the "rap sheet" for those who believe in FREE SPEECH, or at least broadcast that they do. I guess it only applies to a few selected folks.

I get protecting free speech....I do not get how it is selectively applied in cases like this man. These people he harassed, was vindictive to were not on the street.....did not violence. Like with Trump, they simply disagreed with someone, and were "gotten"

My fear in my country is that we are applying what used to be universal codes sparingly and only to certain classes of AMERICANS.

[Sandtrap328]

As repulsive and repugnant as Joe Arpiao is - and definitely, he is both - I personally think sending him to jail for 6 months would be inappropriate for that to happen to an 85 year old person.

A much better punishment would be to take away his pension and to donate the pension money to the ACLU. Also Joe would have to do several hundred hours of janitor service at illegal immigration centers.

[Don Baldwin]

As repulsive and repugnant as Joe Arpiao is - and definitely, he is both - I personally think sending him to jail for 6 months would be inappropriate for that to happen to an 85 year old person.

A much better punishment would be to take away his pension and to donate the pension money to the ACLU. Also Joe would have to do several hundred hours of janitor service at illegal immigration centers.

I'll find something I don't like about you and I'll petition to have YOUR pension taken away. How's that?

[MDLNB]

As repulsive and repugnant as Joe Arpiao is - and definitely, he is both - I personally think sending him to jail for 6 months would be inappropriate for that to happen to an 85 year old person.

A much better punishment would be to take away his pension and to donate the pension money to the ACLU. Also Joe would have to do several hundred hours of janitor service at illegal immigration centers.


Yes, punish the 85 year old harshly for that minor, misdemeanor offense. I'm sure that treasonous traitor Manning that was a convicted felon and commuted by President Obama would agree with you. Oh, does anyone know if it is true that Obama commuted/pardoned more criminals than any other president in history? I heard the statement made the other day and haven't yet fact checked it.

Yes, pardoning a six month sentence on an old man is really a scandal.

[Carl in Tampa]

Sheriff Joe Arpaio is a heroic icon in the law enforcement community.

Admittedly, he was involved in many controversial issues, and was probably often very much in the wrong, but his use of pink underwear, and later pink handcuffs and jump suits, for prisoners appealed to the peculiar sense of humor of seasoned cops.

Now, let me digress to my early days of associating with law enforcement officers while I was still in college. I rode along with city police, deputy sheriffs and highway patrol troopers.

This was the 1950s in a small middle-class college town. If we were to see a car load of Black, male teenagers running around town in a late model, expensive car, the car would be stopped to verify that the operator was legally in possession of the car. Usually, he was not.

Today, that is called "Profiling." Back then it was regarded as "Good Police Work."

It was alleged that Sheriff Arpaio's principal offense was "profiling" when his deputies concentrated on directing their investigative efforts at apparent Mexicans when seeking illegal aliens. Old line cops consider that good police work. After all, statistically speaking, illegal aliens entering the country through Arizona are most likely to be Mexicans.

Political correctness has already gone amok at the Transportation Security Agency where everyone gets the same rigorous pre-boarding search although statistically the hijackers and terrorists have all been young Muslim (mostly Arab) men. To single out apparent young Muslim Arab men for special searches would be the "offense" of (Gasp) Profiling.

One hopes that there will be a day when sanity returns, and good police work can continue.


Carl in Tampa

.

[Don Baldwin]

Sheriff Joe Arpaio is a heroic icon in the law enforcement community.

Admittedly, he was involved in many controversial issues, and was probably often very much in the wrong, but his use of pink underwear, and later pink handcuffs and jump suits, for prisoners appealed to the peculiar sense of humor of seasoned cops.

Now, let me digress to my early days of associating with law enforcement officers while I was still in college. I rode along with city police, deputy sheriffs and highway patrol troopers.

This was the 1950s in a small middle-class college town. If we were to see a car load of Black, male teenagers running around town in a late model, expensive car, the car would be stopped to verify that the operator was legally in possession of the car. Usually, he was not.

Today, that is called "Profiling." Back then it was regarded as "Good Police Work."

It was alleged that Sheriff Arpaio's principal offense was "profiling" when his deputies concentrated on directing their investigative efforts at apparent Mexicans when seeking illegal aliens. Old line cops consider that good police work. After all, statistically speaking, illegal aliens entering the country through Arizona are most likely to be Mexicans.

Political correctness has already gone amok at the Transportation Security Agency where everyone gets the same rigorous pre-boarding search although statistically the hijackers and terrorists have all been young Muslim (mostly Arab) men. To single out apparent young Muslim Arab men for special searches would be the "offense" of (Gasp) Profiling.

One hopes that there will be a day when sanity returns, and good police work can continue.


Carl in Tampa

.

And blacks commit around 10X more crimes too...don't they? Black communities are RIDDLED with crime...white communities much less so.

Poverty? Poverty doesn't MAKE them violent...violence DOES make them poor.