Long Term Care Insurance

[thomp679]

I would like to find a good insurance agent that I can discuss the economics of Long Term Care insurance. Any recommendations? Any experiences that can be shared about getting coverage?

[HiHoSteveO]

Start by attending a workshop tomorrow morning. Call to reserve a spot. I think they have these every couple of weeks or so. Ad is listed in the paper.
Workshop: Long Term Care - (http://www.thevillagesinsurance.com/event/workshop-long-term-care/2017-08-25/)

[retiredguy123]

I have never considered long term care insurance to be a good deal for two reasons. First, the insurance company, not you, will determine if and when you are eligible to collect benefits. And second, most of the people living in nursing homes are on Medicaid and receiving the same level of care as those with long term care insurance for free.

[Chi-Town]

I have never considered long term care insurance to be a good deal for two reasons. First, the insurance company, not you, will determine if and when you are eligible to collect benefits. And second, most of the people living in nursing homes are on Medicaid and receiving the same level of care as those with long term care insurance for free.If you're in a nursing home paid for by Medicaid odds are you are broke and in a second class facility.

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[retiredguy123]

If you're in a nursing home paid for by Medicaid odds are you are broke and in a second class facility.

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I visited many nursing homes for my mother, and I always asked them for the percentage of patients who were on Medicaid. The average percentage was about 85 to 90 percent Medicaid. These are people who were not broke when they arrived, but became broke while in the nursing home. I don't know how you define a second class facility, but if you can find a facility that doesn't accept Medicaid, I don't think your long term care insurance benefits will cover the high cost.

[thomp679]

Agree on medicaid. I want to prevent a long term care need from milking me dry of my financial resources. Though we are moving to TV on 9/5 and working remotely, I hope to retire early at the end of the year at age 55. Before doing so, I have a couple of loose ends and I want to factor in LTC coverage before pull the plug of my current income source.

[dewilson58]

There are a lot of studies out there................If you have less than $250k in assets, don't buy. And if you have over $1.5mil, don't buy. But if you are in the middle, should consider.

Okay, Open Season............take shots.

:Screen_of_Death:

[jane032657]

Long Term Care is not just for nursing homes. If you find you are in need of care which requires a few of the activities of daily living-eating (need meals), bathing, dressing, mobility-you may need assisted living and not nursing care. Or you may need a memory care community within an Assisted Living.

Assisted living is very expensive. I am a former Assisted Living Administrator. If you want a nice Assisted Living after having had a nice home and lifestyle, and depending on how much help with your daily living needs you have, you can be looking anywhere from mid $4,000 on up into the $6-$10,000 range.

A good long term care policy will cover in today's rates at least $6,000 a month with annual increases in the amount of coverage. You can usually expect 3-5% increase a year in Assisted Living.

And check to see if the policy will allow you to use the benefit to have in home help instead of moving out if that would suit your situation. Often you can hire your own person, even a relative, to provide care.

And please remember, if you are a veteran and need assisted living or nursing home, apply for the Aide and Attendant Benefit, but you have to have lower assets to be eligible.

Planning how you manage your assets early on can help you obtain Medicaid and Aide and Attendant when you need it.

Many assisted livings do a very high level of care which will keep you out of a nursing home unless you develop certain medical needs that the State regulations do not allow them to provide. Always ask what is the highest level of care they provide, including a memory care area within the assisted living. And please look beyond the beauty of the building and the chandelier. Ask how long the Administrator has been there; ask to see the State survey results of the past few years and also to see any investigation complaints and outcomes (also on the ACHA website); talk to residents and family members; ask the percentage of staff turnover; and eat quite a few meals there on different days including Sundays. You would be surprised to know that with all the money you pay, the food budget daily for a resident can be from under $5 to $7 a day. They hound the Administrator to keep the food budget low and to push the chef to be frugal.

Ask about transportation-how often, to where, how far will they drive you. And entertainment-how often are entertainers brought in, will they take people out to other events and outings.

How many nursing hours a day? And is it 7 days a week?

Be vigilant in choosing an assisted living. There are many in The Villages and there are some very nice ones on the outskirts. Do not be manipulated when they tell you at the ones in The Villages that you can access all the benefits of The Villages. Very few people in Assisted Living use Villages amenities, sometimes the healthier spouse living there may, but don't take it as a selling point, and they will try and sell and market to you. Take a look at those in and outside the parameters of The Villages.

And, do not think you cannot negotiate. There is always a "move in" fee. You can negotiate this down and often get rid of it all together if they need to get their occupancy numbers up. Assisted Living is all about occupancy. There are investors to satisfy as well as the management company who is pressured by the investors and owners. They need you more than you need them because there are so many to choose from. Sometimes there are incentives like a month or two free rent, so never move in without an incentive and a deal.

Hope this helps-I know you were asking about Long Term Care insurance but it is good to understand how you can spend it, where and what you get!

[retiredguy123]

The 250 k to 1.5 million formula seems like a good approach. But, if you are young enough, save the premiums, stay healthy, and accumulate the 1.5 million. Chances are you will never collect enough in benefits to justify the insurance premiums. If you are concerned about your heirs, let them pay the premiums.

[jane032657]

The 250 k to 1.5 million formula seems like a good approach. But, if you are young enough, save the premiums, stay healthy, and accumulate the 1.5 million. Chances are you will never collect enough in benefits to justify the insurance premiums. If you are concerned about your heirs, let them pay the premiums.


You are absolutely correct-if the kids stand to inherit a nice sum, get the kids to pay your premiums. Well, we pay our own as our children are still younger professionals, but my husband is a CPA and always says the kids should pay it. Theoretically....If you have older kids, you stand a better chance of being successful on that request!

[Chi-Town]

I visited many nursing homes for my mother, and I always asked them for the percentage of patients who were on Medicaid. The average percentage was about 85 to 90 percent Medicaid. These are people who were not broke when they arrived, but became broke while in the nursing home. I don't know how you define a second class facility, but if you can find a facility that doesn't accept Medicaid, I don't think your long term care insurance benefits will cover the high cost.The best advice I can give you is to check with your financial advisor. See what he or she says. And remember your spouse is in the equation.

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[Hal :-)]

That's a good formula. Except, with assets over 1.5 million (assuming comparable income), you may still want to have the policy to shelter assets since the premiums may be relatively insignificant based on income and it protects the estate. Given that, the only reason not to have a policy is if it's deemed unaffordable. Basically, one way to look at it is, if you required 24 hr care, would your heirs prefer the premiums over the years or rather spend down when it becomes necessary. It's a gamble either way. You have the assets, it's their gamble. You're covered, either way, spend down and Medicaid steps in. The only benefit to a policy holder is possibly a choice of institution.

[Schaumburger]

Long Term Care is not just for nursing homes. If you find you are in need of care which requires a few of the activities of daily living-eating (need meals), bathing, dressing, mobility-you may need assisted living and not nursing care. Or you may need a memory care community within an Assisted Living.

Assisted living is very expensive. I am a former Assisted Living Administrator. If you want a nice Assisted Living after having had a nice home and lifestyle, and depending on how much help with your daily living needs you have, you can be looking anywhere from mid $4,000 on up into the $6-$10,000 range.

A good long term care policy will cover in today's rates at least $6,000 a month with annual increases in the amount of coverage. You can usually expect 3-5% increase a year in Assisted Living.

And check to see if the policy will allow you to use the benefit to have in home help instead of moving out if that would suit your situation. Often you can hire your own person, even a relative, to provide care.

And please remember, if you are a veteran and need assisted living or nursing home, apply for the Aide and Attendant Benefit, but you have to have lower assets to be eligible.

Planning how you manage your assets early on can help you obtain Medicaid and Aide and Attendant when you need it.

Many assisted livings do a very high level of care which will keep you out of a nursing home unless you develop certain medical needs that the State regulations do not allow them to provide. Always ask what is the highest level of care they provide, including a memory care area within the assisted living. And please look beyond the beauty of the building and the chandelier. Ask how long the Administrator has been there; ask to see the State survey results of the past few years and also to see any investigation complaints and outcomes (also on the ACHA website); talk to residents and family members; ask the percentage of staff turnover; and eat quite a few meals there on different days including Sundays. You would be surprised to know that with all the money you pay, the food budget daily for a resident can be from under $5 to $7 a day. They hound the Administrator to keep the food budget low and to push the chef to be frugal.

Ask about transportation-how often, to where, how far will they drive you. And entertainment-how often are entertainers brought in, will they take people out to other events and outings.

How many nursing hours a day? And is it 7 days a week?

Be vigilant in choosing an assisted living. There are many in The Villages and there are some very nice ones on the outskirts. Do not be manipulated when they tell you at the ones in The Villages that you can access all the benefits of The Villages. Very few people in Assisted Living use Villages amenities, sometimes the healthier spouse living there may, but don't take it as a selling point, and they will try and sell and market to you. Take a look at those in and outside the parameters of The Villages.

And, do not think you cannot negotiate. There is always a "move in" fee. You can negotiate this down and often get rid of it all together if they need to get their occupancy numbers up. Assisted Living is all about occupancy. There are investors to satisfy as well as the management company who is pressured by the investors and owners. They need you more than you need them because there are so many to choose from. Sometimes there are incentives like a month or two free rent, so never move in without an incentive and a deal.

Hope this helps-I know you were asking about Long Term Care insurance but it is good to understand how you can spend it, where and what you get!

jane, I know this thread is about long term care insurance, but thank you for the information about assisted living. When my dad had a stroke almost 2 years ago, my sisters and I thought he would need to move into an assisted living facility for at least a while, but that was not necessary. Two years later I still get mail and phone calls marketing the facility. They always have a "deal" going (one month free, save 1/2 on the move-in fee, etc.).

[Boomer]

There is a lot to think about with LTC. Asset protection for the spouse can be one of the most important things to consider.

Post #8, by jane032657, has good info about things to know about long term care facilities. I navigated for my dad and we did well, but you cannot go into these choices without doing your homework. I was guided by a good friend who was the chief administrator of a nursing home in another state. My dad and I chose a continuum of care campus which worked well as more care was needed. (But even so, we visited at least 3 times a week.)

Another thought is that if you are retired to Florida, but your kids are in a different state, you might want to know how things work there -- in case you could want to be closer should you have to go into longterm care.

Jane's information is valuable. If you are someone who likes to keep info in hard copy, you can print it by going to "thread tools" at the top of the thread page and clicking on "printable version." (You probably knew that already, but just in case you have not yet discovered it, now you know.)

[NotFromAroundHere]

I visited many nursing homes for my mother, and I always asked them for the percentage of patients who were on Medicaid. The average percentage was about 85 to 90 percent Medicaid. These are people who were not broke when they arrived, but became broke while in the nursing home. I don't know how you define a second class facility, but if you can find a facility that doesn't accept Medicaid, I don't think your long term care insurance benefits will cover the high cost.

Isn't that a good argument for having LTC insurance?

[BK001]

Valuable information -- thank you for taking the time to provide such thorugh and useful information.



Long Term Care is not just for nursing homes. If you find you are in need of care which requires a few of the activities of daily living-eating (need meals), bathing, dressing, mobility-you may need assisted living and not nursing care. Or you may need a memory care community within an Assisted Living.

Assisted living is very expensive. I am a former Assisted Living Administrator. If you want a nice Assisted Living after having had a nice home and lifestyle, and depending on how much help with your daily living needs you have, you can be looking anywhere from mid $4,000 on up into the $6-$10,000 range.

A good long term care policy will cover in today's rates at least $6,000 a month with annual increases in the amount of coverage. You can usually expect 3-5% increase a year in Assisted Living.

And check to see if the policy will allow you to use the benefit to have in home help instead of moving out if that would suit your situation. Often you can hire your own person, even a relative, to provide care.

And please remember, if you are a veteran and need assisted living or nursing home, apply for the Aide and Attendant Benefit, but you have to have lower assets to be eligible.

Planning how you manage your assets early on can help you obtain Medicaid and Aide and Attendant when you need it.

Many assisted livings do a very high level of care which will keep you out of a nursing home unless you develop certain medical needs that the State regulations do not allow them to provide. Always ask what is the highest level of care they provide, including a memory care area within the assisted living. And please look beyond the beauty of the building and the chandelier. Ask how long the Administrator has been there; ask to see the State survey results of the past few years and also to see any investigation complaints and outcomes (also on the ACHA website); talk to residents and family members; ask the percentage of staff turnover; and eat quite a few meals there on different days including Sundays. You would be surprised to know that with all the money you pay, the food budget daily for a resident can be from under $5 to $7 a day. They hound the Administrator to keep the food budget low and to push the chef to be frugal.

Ask about transportation-how often, to where, how far will they drive you. And entertainment-how often are entertainers brought in, will they take people out to other events and outings.

How many nursing hours a day? And is it 7 days a week?

Be vigilant in choosing an assisted living. There are many in The Villages and there are some very nice ones on the outskirts. Do not be manipulated when they tell you at the ones in The Villages that you can access all the benefits of The Villages. Very few people in Assisted Living use Villages amenities, sometimes the healthier spouse living there may, but don't take it as a selling point, and they will try and sell and market to you. Take a look at those in and outside the parameters of The Villages.

And, do not think you cannot negotiate. There is always a "move in" fee. You can negotiate this down and often get rid of it all together if they need to get their occupancy numbers up. Assisted Living is all about occupancy. There are investors to satisfy as well as the management company who is pressured by the investors and owners. They need you more than you need them because there are so many to choose from. Sometimes there are incentives like a month or two free rent, so never move in without an incentive and a deal.

Hope this helps-I know you were asking about Long Term Care insurance but it is good to understand how you can spend it, where and what you get!

[BK001]

Thanks so much for sharing the printing (and emailing) information. I've been cutting and pasting into a word document whenever I wanted to keep something. This is so much easier.




There is a lot to think about with LTC. Asset protection for the spouse can be one of the most important things to consider.

Post #8, by jane032657, has good info about things to know about long term care facilities. I navigated for my dad and we did well, but you cannot go into these choices without doing your homework. I was guided by a good friend who was the chief administrator of a nursing home in another state. My dad and I chose a continuum of care campus which worked well as more care was needed. (But even so, we visited at least 3 times a week.)

Another thought is that if you are retired to Florida, but your kids are in a different state, you might want to know how things work there -- in case you could want to be closer should you have to go into longterm care.

Jane's information is valuable. If you are someone who likes to keep info in hard copy, you can print it by going to "thread tools" at the top of the thread page and clicking on "printable version." (You probably knew that already, but just in case you have not yet discovered it, now you know.)

[NYGUY]

Long Term Care is not just for nursing homes. If you find you are in need of care which requires a few of the activities of daily living-eating (need meals), bathing, dressing, mobility-you may need assisted living and not nursing care. Or you may need a memory care community within an Assisted Living.

Assisted living is very expensive. I am a former Assisted Living Administrator. If you want a nice Assisted Living after having had a nice home and lifestyle, and depending on how much help with your daily living needs you have, you can be looking anywhere from mid $4,000 on up into the $6-$10,000 range.

A good long term care policy will cover in today's rates at least $6,000 a month with annual increases in the amount of coverage. You can usually expect 3-5% increase a year in Assisted Living.

And check to see if the policy will allow you to use the benefit to have in home help instead of moving out if that would suit your situation. Often you can hire your own person, even a relative, to provide care.

And please remember, if you are a veteran and need assisted living or nursing home, apply for the Aide and Attendant Benefit, but you have to have lower assets to be eligible.

Planning how you manage your assets early on can help you obtain Medicaid and Aide and Attendant when you need it.

Many assisted livings do a very high level of care which will keep you out of a nursing home unless you develop certain medical needs that the State regulations do not allow them to provide. Always ask what is the highest level of care they provide, including a memory care area within the assisted living. And please look beyond the beauty of the building and the chandelier. Ask how long the Administrator has been there; ask to see the State survey results of the past few years and also to see any investigation complaints and outcomes (also on the ACHA website); talk to residents and family members; ask the percentage of staff turnover; and eat quite a few meals there on different days including Sundays. You would be surprised to know that with all the money you pay, the food budget daily for a resident can be from under $5 to $7 a day. They hound the Administrator to keep the food budget low and to push the chef to be frugal.

Ask about transportation-how often, to where, how far will they drive you. And entertainment-how often are entertainers brought in, will they take people out to other events and outings.

How many nursing hours a day? And is it 7 days a week?

Be vigilant in choosing an assisted living. There are many in The Villages and there are some very nice ones on the outskirts. Do not be manipulated when they tell you at the ones in The Villages that you can access all the benefits of The Villages. Very few people in Assisted Living use Villages amenities, sometimes the healthier spouse living there may, but don't take it as a selling point, and they will try and sell and market to you. Take a look at those in and outside the parameters of The Villages.

And, do not think you cannot negotiate. There is always a "move in" fee. You can negotiate this down and often get rid of it all together if they need to get their occupancy numbers up. Assisted Living is all about occupancy. There are investors to satisfy as well as the management company who is pressured by the investors and owners. They need you more than you need them because there are so many to choose from. Sometimes there are incentives like a month or two free rent, so never move in without an incentive and a deal.

Hope this helps-I know you were asking about Long Term Care insurance but it is good to understand how you can spend it, where and what you get!

Thanks Jane, it's nice to have an informed poster rather than the usual conjecture and old wives tales.

[rexxfan]

For what its worth, here's an article from the firm we used for our estate planning on Long Term Care Insurance versus Medicaid Asset Protection Trusts. I think the advice given in the closing paragraph is very good. Discuss your situation with someone with experience in the topic. I personally opted to begin paying for LTC insurance offered through my former employer when I was still quite young (on account of a not-so-great family medical history). It was cheap enough that I barely noticed the expense and I appreciate having a much lower premium now than if I had waited.

Long-Term Care Insurance v. Medicaid Asset Protection Trust :: Ulster County, NY Trusts Lawyer Ettinger Law Firm (https://www.trustlaw.com/long-term-care-insurance-v-medicaid-asset-protection-trust.html)

[aaffmom]

My friend brought her Morher to Florida from Oklahoma after1 1/2 years of trying to find a Medicaid bed in a nursing home. Once she had her here she had to reapply for Medicaid in Florida. Took over 6 months. In the meantime she paid $6000 month

[paulascorpio]

Do yourself a favor and contact: Gail Patel. She is the most knowledgeable and honest insurance agent that I have ever dealt with in all my years. She has an amazing knowledge of everything insurance related. I do have a long-term policy with her plus she does all our medical. There are a lot of benefits with a long-term care besides just being in a facility. She will explain it all to you. Her cell is 352-216-1680 and tell her the Scorpio's told you to call her. She does insurance all over the country. She even helped my sister-in-law in RI with her health insurance.