Racism, Trump & Evangelicals

[Wiotte]

Under Trump, evangelicals show their true racist colors - LA Times (http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-balmer-evangelical-trump-racism-20170823-story,amp.html)


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[CowBubba]

Trump has given validity to evangelical prejudice, but it has been there long before trump slithered into the room.

[rubicon]

Under Trump, evangelicals show their true racist colors - LA Times (http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-balmer-evangelical-trump-racism-20170823-story,amp.html)


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Religion does more good in promoting the well being of a society, so much so that the Chinese recognized that allowing their citizen the right to practice their religion created calm and stability.

In this nation the left is making every effort to destroy religion because religion views homosexuality as being against God's laws of nature.

Religion, a belief in God a belief in something greater than ourselves propels people to perform selfless acts for the benefit of our society. conversely secularism connotes a preoccupation with one's self, a belief in nothing. secularism is soulless

With religious people homosexuality simply means hate the sin love the sinner

HE is he alpha and omega.

Personal Best Regards:

[Don Baldwin]

Religion does more good in promoting the well being of a society, so much so that the Chinese recognized that allowing their citizen the right to practice their religion created calm and stability.

In this nation the left is making every effort to destroy religion because religion views homosexuality as being against God's laws of nature.

Religion, a belief in God a belief in something greater than ourselves propels people to perform selfless acts for the benefit of our society. conversely secularism connotes a preoccupation with one's self, a belief in nothing. secularism is soulless

With religious people homosexuality simply means hate the sin love the sinner

HE is he alpha and omega.

Personal Best Regards:

As he smiles at your grandson in the high school gym shower?

I'm waiting for a HS football team to ALL declare themselves "girls" so they can join the cheerleaders in the locker room. Doesn't the law state...the gender they "identify" with?

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Under Trump, evangelicals show their true racist colors - LA Times (http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-balmer-evangelical-trump-racism-20170823-story,amp.html)


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Does this writer believe that there are no black evangelicals?

I guess now that the Russia story has no legs it's time to trot out the old standby, racism.

After this nonsense fizzle out it will be the old tried and true, "tax breaks for the rich" while the poor suffer.

What else does the left have? They have become totally predictable.

[Wiotte]

Does this writer believe that there are no black evangelicals?

I guess now that the Russia story has no legs it's time to trot out the old standby, racism.

After this nonsense fizzle out it will be the old tried and true, "tax breaks for the rich" while the poor suffer.

What else does the left have? They have become totally predictable.



Evangelicals and PARANOIA

White Evangelicals Are Why America Can't Have Nice Things (http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_593fdc48e4b0b65670e56dc8/amp)


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[rubicon]

Evangelicals and PARANOIA

White Evangelicals Are Why America Can't Have Nice Things (http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_593fdc48e4b0b65670e56dc8/amp)


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You have got to be kidding me. Huffington is accusing Trump supporters of fake news, being in denial et al.:D

Radical progressives are funny and I mean both as
(ha ha) and ( funny as strange

Personal Best Regards:

[Wiotte]

You have got to be kidding me. Huffington is accusing Trump supporters of fake news, being in denial et al.:D



Radical progressives are funny and I mean both as

(ha ha) and ( funny as strange



Personal Best Regards:



Consider this

Home | Red May Seattle (https://www.redmayseattle.org/single-post/2017/03/14/TRUMP-PRESIDENCY-FORETOLD-IN-REVELATIONS-SAYS-PASTOR)


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[Carl in Tampa]

Rubicon

Religion does more good in promoting the well being of a society, so much so that the Chinese recognized that allowing their citizen the right to practice their religion created calm and stability.

In this nation the left is making every effort to destroy religion because religion views homosexuality as being against God's laws of nature.

Religion, a belief in God a belief in something greater than ourselves propels people to perform selfless acts for the benefit of our society. conversely secularism connotes a preoccupation with one's self, a belief in nothing. secularism is soulless

With religious people homosexuality simply means hate the sin love the sinner

HE is he alpha and omega.

Personal Best Regards:

:agree:

Well, I had decided not to respond to the original post by Wiotte because an article in the Los Angeles Times is so obviously prejudiced. But after I saw Rubicon's response I decided to chime in in support.

The allegation that "White Evangelicals" are racist is so ludicrous that it hardly seems worthy of bothering to refute it. One only needs to point to the self-sacrifice of millions of White missionaries to Africa, China, and South America for over a century, and nothing more really needs to be said.

Missionaries whose sole motivation was to introduce others to the love of Christ, at the cost of personal comfort, disease, and even death, are truly maligned by accusations of racism.

Several years ago my home church "adopted" a village in western Africa and periodically sends teams of lay people to assist in improving the living conditions in that village. Our congregation has funded digging several fresh water wells to provide people with safe, sanitary, drinking water.

A while back my church promoted the purchase of efficient wood burning stoves for people in outlying areas of South America who were still cooking over open fires. I am not blowing my own horn when I say that I personally funded the full cost of one of those stoves.

This whole "White Christians are racists" theme is just another Liberal attack on Conservatives of every type. The writers make fools of themselves in attributing motives to Christians that are transparently false.

Carl in Tampa

.

[billethkid]

The term and application of "racist" has become a distorted political and special interest motivated term.

Meaning BS in today's partisan say anything negative whether true or not society.

As I was once upon a time told by a newspaper editor, the key is to be first. Worry about the accuracy later!!

[Don Baldwin]

:agree:

Well, I had decided not to respond to the original post by Wiotte because an article in the Los Angeles Times is so obviously prejudiced. But after I saw Rubicon's response I decided to chime in in support.

The allegation that "White Evangelicals" are racist is so ludicrous that it hardly seems worthy of bothering to refute it. One only needs to point to the self-sacrifice of millions of White missionaries to Africa, China, and South America for over a century, and nothing more really needs to be said.

Missionaries whose sole motivation was to introduce others to the love of Christ, at the cost of personal comfort, disease, and even death, are truly maligned by accusations of racism.

Several years ago my home church "adopted" a village in western Africa and periodically sends teams of lay people to assist in improving the living conditions in that village. Our congregation has funded digging several fresh water wells to provide people with safe, sanitary, drinking water.

A while back my church promoted the purchase of efficient wood burning stoves for people in outlying areas of South America who were still cooking over open fires. I am not blowing my own horn when I say that I personally funded the full cost of one of those stoves.

This whole "White Christians are racists" theme is just another Liberal attack on Conservatives of every type. The writers make fools of themselves in attributing motives to Christians that are transparently false.

Carl in Tampa

.

Why couldn't they do things for themselves? They can't figure out how to dig a well?

Did ANYTHING ever improve or did what you built become run down and broken only to have you have to do it for them again a year later?

They are NOT "us" you should have figured that out by now.

[Carl in Tampa]

billethkid

As I was once upon a time told by a newspaper editor, the key is to be first. Worry about the accuracy later!!

If you were really told that, the editor was an idiot.

"Get It First, But First Get It Right” was the slogan of the International New Service (INS), founded by newspaper publisher William Randolph Hearst in 1909. The slogan is cited in print from 1923. The INS combined with the United Press in 1958 to form United Press International (UPI).

The slogan has been unofficially adopted by other news professionals as an industry motto. Television news anchor Walter Cronkite (1916-2009) often used the phrase (shortened to “Get it first, but get it right").

For a short while I wrote for a newspaper. Accuracy was paramount. These days that doesn't seem to be the case.

Carl in Tampa

.

[Carl in Tampa]

Don Baldwin

Why couldn't they do things for themselves? They can't figure out how to dig a well?

Did ANYTHING ever improve or did what you built become run down and broken only to have you have to do it for them again a year later?

They are NOT "us" you should have figured that out by now.

The subject was the allegation that Evangelicals were racist, and my post was demonstrating that the claim was not true.

Your monomania about Blacks is getting tiresome.


Carl in Tampa

.

[Wiotte]

The subject was the allegation that Evangelicals were racist, and my post was demonstrating that the claim was not true.

Your monomania about Blacks is getting tiresome.


Carl in Tampa

.



And one dimensional. The Neanderthals really don't deserve the accolades Donny gives them. I do believe in respecting my elders, but damn those guys were just fu ckin cavemen !


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[Allegiance]

Don't worry now that politics and religion can legally mix, the God hating liberals have no chance.

Of course the black churches never paid attention to the laws.

[Don Baldwin]

And one dimensional. The Neanderthals really don't deserve the accolades Donny gives them. I do believe in respecting my elders, but damn those guys were just fu ckin cavemen !


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What do you think blacks were/are? They were found in Africa without written language...no wheel...no draft animals...living in straw huts...no agriculture, scraping in the dirt for roots and grubs. The Neanderthals had MORE culture and art than the blacks.

[rubicon]

What do you think blacks were/are? They were found in Africa without written language...no wheel...no draft animals...living in straw huts...no agriculture, scraping in the dirt for roots and grubs. The Neanderthals had MORE culture and art than the blacks.

Guest, guest guest

Take a ride to some of the remote areas of this great nation of ours and you will get an eyeful of what poverty inflicts on otherwise decent human beings.

Before you condemn an entire race consider with just one example that your absolutism is greatly misdirected. That example concerns the surviving parishioners of the hate racing Dylan Roof who murdered in cold blood innocent people. I can't imagine the courage and the intelligent application it took for those folks to forgive and to pray for Dylan Roof. I am in awe

Consider Martin Luther King's admonition "a man should be judged by the content of his character and not the color of his skin. King was not the first to speak to this issue.

PARENTS FROM THE BEGINNING OF TIME HAVE BEEN TEACHING THEIR OFFSPRING THIS SAME TENET
AND WITH GOOD REASON.


Personal Best Regards:

[cologal]

The subject was the allegation that Evangelicals were racist, and my post was demonstrating that the claim was not true.

Your monomania about Blacks is getting tiresome.


Carl in Tampa

.

Get used to it as it never changes! Best not to answer....


COPUFF OUT WEST IN THE MILE HIGH STATE!

[Don Baldwin]

Guest, guest guest

Take a ride to some of the remote areas of this great nation of ours and you will get an eyeful of what poverty inflicts on otherwise decent human beings.

Before you condemn an entire race consider with just one example that your absolutism is greatly misdirected. That example concerns the surviving parishioners of the hate racing Dylan Roof who murdered in cold blood innocent people. I can't imagine the courage and the intelligent application it took for those folks to forgive and to pray for Dylan Roof. I am in awe

Consider Martin Luther King's admonition "a man should be judged by the content of his character and not the color of his skin. King was not the first to speak to this issue.

PARENTS FROM THE BEGINNING OF TIME HAVE BEEN TEACHING THEIR OFFSPRING THIS SAME TENET
AND WITH GOOD REASON.


Personal Best Regards:

There may be poverty...but not the violence that infests the black neighborhoods. A white neighborhood may be poor but it's not a war zone...there isn't the murder rates the black neighborhoods have. Compare the murder rates of the black inner cities to ANYWHERE...there is NO comparison.

Really? Dylan Roof? You're going to bring THAT up again? How about ALL the blacks killing people since then. In Chicago or Baltimore, or E St Louis...there are more killed by blacks in one weekend...EVERY weekend, than Dylan killed.

Blacks murder in cold blood 10X more frequently than whites.

Lets LOOK at their "character"...

WHAT do they do to EVERY school they become the majority in? Destroy it.

What do they do to EVERY neighborhood they become the majority in? Destroy it.

What do they do to EVERY town/city they become the majority in? Destroy it.

Tell me...what DO they bring to the table that we would want/need?

[wjboyer1]

71160

71161

[Don Baldwin]

[QUOTE=Guest]https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/attachments/villages-florida-political-talk-88/71160d1503929088t-racism-trump-evangelicals-ministriesnotopento-floodvictims-jpg

Maybe they're already full? Their own parishioners?

Maybe they DON'T want their place WRECKED...DESTROYED by the black animals like what happened during Katrina. Blacks DESTROYED the NO stadium. Blacks DESTROYED the places they were sent.

Blacks DESTROY...everything...everywhere...it's what they do. It's WHY nobody wants them around.

[Wiotte]

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71161



Let's keep the Peanuts out of politics please.

[MDLNB]

And one dimensional. The Neanderthals really don't deserve the accolades Donny gives them. I do believe in respecting my elders, but damn those guys were just fu ckin cavemen !


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Let's not be all inclusive with your derision of Neanderthals. After all, how do you think those guys that work for GEICO feel when people talk like that about them?

[wjboyer1]

Would Jesus do this? Mega Churches doors not open? Joel Olsteen? (https://egbertowillies.com/2017/08/28/jesus-mega-church-door-not-open/)

[Wiotte]

Let's not be all inclusive with your derision of Neanderthals. After all, how do you think those guys that work for GEICO feel when people talk like that about them?



https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170828/7adadf549a35eb3d222e98715173385e.jpg

Great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great
GRANDDAD !

[Don Baldwin]

Let's not be all inclusive with your derision of Neanderthals. After all, how do you think those guys that work for GEICO feel when people talk like that about them?

The Neanderthals were more advanced than the African Negros.

Cave paintings...that are ART.

neanderthal cave art - Google Search (https://www.google.com/search?q=neanderthal+cave+art&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwimgMrMufrVAhUFslQKHTMuD7sQsAQILQ&biw=1536&bih=722)


Ancient Negroid art from Southern Africa. You tell me which you prefer.

ancient s african art - Google Search (https://www.google.com/search?q=ancient+s+african+art&sa=X&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&ved=0ahUKEwjDwbOevPrVAhUKQSYKHcPtBNQQsAQITg&biw=1536&bih=722)

[Wiotte]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170828/5422f043a6aa144d891b30df6b546372.jpg

[Wiotte]

Donny ?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170828/05e59b4af200beee8e63e53df1d1ba01.jpg

[MDLNB]

I'm thinking that we about to have a few problems deciding which statues to eliminate.

[Wiotte]

I'm thinking that we about to have a few problems deciding which statues to eliminate.



That is a conundrum.

[wjboyer1]

i'm thinking that we about to have a few problems deciding which statues to eliminate.

71163

[Wiotte]

"But damn if the South does not hold on to the war as if they never actually lost, fighting incongruously for a hopeless cause of questionable value while simultaneously wrapping themselves in the American flag representing the Union they are so proud of leaving."

[Sandtrap328]

Joseph Preston, a former(?) KKK leader was arrested for discharging a firearm during the Charlottsville alt-right riot.

Yeah, peaceful KKK, white supremacist, and retarded alt-right kookaboos.

Maybe the Trumpanzee will pardon Preston, too. :crap2:

[Allegiance]

Joseph Preston, a former(?) KKK leader was arrested for discharging a firearm during the Charlottsville alt-right riot.

Yeah, peaceful KKK, white supremacist, and retarded alt-right kookaboos.

Maybe the Trumpanzee will pardon Preston, too. :crap2:One in one thousand acts of violence is committed by the right.


Before you ask for proof, think it over.

[mellincf]

Religion does more good in promoting the well being of a society, so much so that the Chinese recognized that allowing their citizen the right to practice their religion created calm and stability.

In this nation the left is making every effort to destroy religion because religion views homosexuality as being against God's laws of nature.

Religion, a belief in God a belief in something greater than ourselves propels people to perform selfless acts for the benefit of our society. conversely secularism connotes a preoccupation with one's self, a belief in nothing. secularism is soulless

With religious people homosexuality simply means hate the sin love the sinner

HE is he alpha and omega.

Personal Best Regards: Jesus never said a word against homosexuals, anywhere, any time. He never married and he hung out with 12 other guys all the time. (And one of them was the one he "loved the most".) Also try to remember he was a dark skinned man from the Middle East.

[mellincf]

What do you think blacks were/are? They were found in Africa without written language...no wheel...no draft animals...living in straw huts...no agriculture, scraping in the dirt for roots and grubs. The Neanderthals had MORE culture and art than the blacks. Egyptians had a culture four thousand years before Christ was born. Take a history class.

[mellincf]

Don't worry now that politics and religion can legally mix, the God hating liberals have no chance.

Of course the black churches never paid attention to the laws. Religion and politics can't "legally mix" unless it goes back to the Supreme Court, which has already ruled on it. Everson vs. Board, Supreme Court decision said there is a wall of separation between church and state, called for in the First Amendment and using contemporaneous documents from the Founding Fathers regarding their views. Take a civics class.

[Don Baldwin]

Egyptians had a culture four thousand years before Christ was born. Take a history class.

Egyptians aren't black...they're not negroid. They're Mediterranean...like Italians, Greeks, Spanish. There may be lots of blacks in Egypt and N Africa now...but the originals were NOT negro.

And I'm talking WAY before the Egyptians...40,000 some say 70,000 years ago, Neanderthals were drawing those beautiful animals.

[Wiotte]

Egyptians aren't black...they're not negroid. They're Mediterranean...like Italians, Greeks, Spanish. There may be lots of blacks in Egypt and N Africa now...but the originals were NOT negro.

Anbd I'm talking WAY before the Egyptians...40,000 some say 70,000 years ago, Neanderthals were making those beautiful animals.



You are correct, mummy DNA has proved that .
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170829/4335ca1aeceaebaa8e1687ee6ae93ece.jpg

[MDLNB]

Jesus never said a word against homosexuals, anywhere, any time. He never married and he hung out with 12 other guys all the time. (And one of them was the one he "loved the most".) Also try to remember he was a dark skinned man from the Middle East.

I assume that you are not a Christian. I say that because Christians believe that Jesus IS GOD. GOD's word in the Bible DOES mention gays several times. If you do not believe me, try reading it. It's an interesting read. I am only correcting you, not attempting to get into an argument about gays. I'm not interested in the subject.

[Wiotte]

I assume that you are not a Christian. I say that because Christians believe that Jesus IS GOD. GOD's word in the Bible DOES mention gays several times. If you do not believe me, try reading it. It's an interesting read. I am only correcting you, not attempting to get into an argument about gays. I'm not interested in the subject.



Weren't homosexuals mentioned in the Old Testament only ?

[Carl in Tampa]

Wiotte

Weren't homosexuals mentioned in the Old Testament only ?

"For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error." --- Romans 1:26-27

"But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted." I Timothy 1:8-11

"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.' --- I Corinthians 6:9-10

But, the Corinthians verse is modified by Paul's observation in verse 11. "Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

(All verses from the New American Standard Bible, identified by theologian Paul Enns as the most correct literal translation of the Greek Bible, while still being very readable.)

Carl in Tampa

.

[Wiotte]

///

[Carl in Tampa]

Wiotte

That's why as a Roman Catholic, bible interpretation is not allowed by it's followers. The papal hierarchy interpreted it for us though its catechism and the mass.

While it is true that Catholics have not traditionally been encouraged to read the Bible and understand it for themselves, nonetheless they are not forbidden to read the Bible.

Here is that same Romans 1:26-27, in the Catholic translation.

Romans 1:26-27 New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)

"For this reason God gave them up to degrading passions. Their women exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural, and in the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error."


Carl in Tampa

.

[Wiotte]

While it is true that Catholics have not traditionally been encouraged to read the Bible and understand it for themselves, nonetheless they are not forbidden to read the Bible.



Here is that same Romans 1:26-27, in the Catholic translation.



Romans 1:26-27 New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)



"For this reason God gave them up to degrading passions. Their women exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural, and in the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error."





Carl in Tampa



.



You are correct. Not forbidden but not encouraged. Not a wise policy given that bible interpretation is, well open to interpretation.

[Carl in Tampa]

On the subject of Catholic Catechism and homosexuality, I found this in the Catechism.

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

Carl in Tampa

.

[Wiotte]

On the subject of Catholic Catechism and homosexuality, I found this in the Catechism.



2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.



2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.



2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.



Carl in Tampa



.



The good sisters never covered THAT with us. Well, not in that way. Although 12 years of parochial brainwashing pretty much concurs what you have transcribed. Now I know why I think the way I do about this subject.

Thank you Carl

[Carl in Tampa]

Wiotte

You are correct. Not forbidden but not encouraged. Not a wise policy given that bible interpretation is, well open to interpretation.

Not forbidden? Perhaps we didn't read the same passages.

Characterizing certain actions as "indecent acts" hardly strikes me as an endorsement, but rather a condemnation.

Carl in Tampa

.

[Don Baldwin]

The good sisters never covered THAT with us. Well, not in that way. Although 12 years of parochial brainwashing pretty much concurs what you have transcribed. Now I know why I think the way I do about this subject.

Thank you Carl

Believe me...we're ALL brainwashed as kids. They fill our brains with crap.

[Don Baldwin]

You are correct, mummy DNA has proved that .
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170829/4335ca1aeceaebaa8e1687ee6ae93ece.jpg

Of course I'm correct...

"Mummy DNA unravels ancient Egyptians’ ancestry

Genetic analysis reveals a close relationship with Middle Easterners, not central Africans."

"The findings show that the mummies’ closest kin were ancient farmers from a region that includes present-day Israel and Jordan. Modern Egyptians, by contrast, have inherited more of their DNA from central Africans."

"Archaeological discoveries and historical documents suggest close ties between Egypt and the Middle East, but “it is very nice that this study has now provided empirical evidence for this at the genetic level”

"Both types of genomic material showed that ancient Egyptians shared little DNA with modern sub-Saharan Africans. Instead, their closest relatives were people living during the Neolithic and Bronze ages in an area known as the Levant. Strikingly, the mummies were more closely related to ancient Europeans and Anatolians than to modern Egyptians."

"The researchers say that there was probably a pulse of sub-Saharan African DNA into Egypt roughly 700 years ago. The mixing of ancient Egyptians and Africans from further south means that modern Egyptians can trace 8% more of their ancestry to sub-Saharan Africans than can the mummies from Abusir el-Meleq."

Mummy DNA unravels ancient Egyptians’ ancestry : Nature News & Comment (https://www.nature.com/news/mummy-dna-unravels-ancient-egyptians-ancestry-1.22069)

It's ALWAYS the same...a successful people do well...UNTIL they start diluting themselves with outsiders...then everything goes to sh!t. We're doing...we've DONE the SAME thing!

“The other big surprise,” Krause said, “was we didn't find much sub-Saharan African ancestry.”

[Don Baldwin]

While it is true that Catholics have not traditionally been encouraged to read the Bible and understand it for themselves, nonetheless they are not forbidden to read the Bible.

Here is that same Romans 1:26-27, in the Catholic translation.

Romans 1:26-27 New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)

"For this reason God gave them up to degrading passions. Their women exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural, and in the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error."


Carl in Tampa

.

You are correct. Not forbidden but not encouraged. Not a wise policy given that bible interpretation is, well open to interpretation.

That's EXACTLY WHY they didn't want them reading the Bible...or even KNOW what they were saying! Everything was kept in Latin SPECIFICALLY to CONTROL what the congregation heard...and therefore believed. Why allow them to question the official party line?

I can't believe someone would be in a "religion" where everything was in a foreign language. You couldn't read the books, you didn't understand what the priests were chanting. ALL you had was what they told you it said/they were saying. Unbelievable what "intelligent" people will do/believe.

Edit:

A reason the Protestants..."protestors"...left and formed their own churches...they didn't agree with the party line that didn't agree with their "interpretation". So now we have over 5,000 different Christian sects.

[Wiotte]

That's EXACTLY WHY they didn't want them reading the Bible...or even KNOW what they were saying! Everything was kept in Latin SPECIFICALLY to CONTROL what the congregation heard...and therefore believed. Why allow them to question the official party line?

I can't believe someone would be in a "religion" where everything was in a foreign language. You couldn't read the books, you didn't understand what the priests were chanting. ALL you had was what they told you it said/they were saying. Unbelievable what "intelligent" people will do/believe.

Edit:

A reason the Protestants..."protestors"...left and formed their own churches...they didn't agree with the party line that didn't agree with their "interpretation". So now we have over 5,000 different Christian sects.



Again, you are correct. Martin Luther was lucky he wasn't burned at the stake. Yet the Catholic Church has a billion followers. Far more than any other Christian sect.

[Wiotte]

Not forbidden? Perhaps we didn't read the same passages.



Characterizing certain actions as "indecent acts" hardly strikes me as an endorsement, but rather a condemnation.



Carl in Tampa



.



"Not forbidden" referred to reading the Bible, not the homosexual act.

[wjboyer1]

Louisiana floods destroy home of Christian leader who says God sends natural disasters to punish gay people | The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/christian-home-destroyed-flood-tony-perkins-natural-disasters-gods-punishment-homosexuality-a7196786.html)

[Wiotte]

Louisiana floods destroy home of Christian leader who says God sends natural disasters to punish gay people | The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/christian-home-destroyed-flood-tony-perkins-natural-disasters-gods-punishment-homosexuality-a7196786.html)


God created Mother Nature and Man tore that God apart into pieces and made citadels of differentiation out of them.

[Don Baldwin]

Again, you are correct. Martin Luther was lucky he wasn't burned at the stake. Yet the Catholic Church has a billion followers. Far more than any other Christian sect.

Isn't it nuts? I can see being a Protestant...but a Catholic? Them boys are crazy! Some of the sh!t they believe and do. The Catholic Church may be the richest organization on the planet...and yet every Sunday they're begging for more.

I don't trust the judgment of the highly religious...what else do they blindly believe?

[Carl in Tampa]

Wiotte

"Not forbidden" referred to reading the Bible, not the homosexual act.

I misunderstood. And I agree with you.


Carl in Tampa

.

[mellincf]

"For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error." --- Romans 1:26-27

"But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted." I Timothy 1:8-11

"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.' --- I Corinthians 6:9-10

But, the Corinthians verse is modified by Paul's observation in verse 11. "Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

(All verses from the New American Standard Bible, identified by theologian Paul Enns as the most correct literal translation of the Greek Bible, while still being very readable.)

Carl in Tampa

. Well first remember that neither Paul, nor any of the writers of the Gospels, ever met the historical Jesus, so all of the Gospels are just hearsay. The oldest Gospel in the Bible is the Gospel of John, written no less than 85 years after the historical Jesus was dead. And anyway Paul was an old misogynist. Does your wife cover her head with a hijab, or are you forced to shave her bald? (1 Corinthians 11:6).

[mellincf]

Isn't it nuts? I can see being a Protestant...but a Catholic? Them boys are crazy! Some of the sh!t they believe and do. The Catholic Church may be the richest organization on the planet...and yet every Sunday they're begging for more.

I don't trust the judgment of the highly religious...what else do they blindly believe? And do you know WHY you are a Protest-ant? Who was doing all the protesting? All Christians were Catholic until Luther. And two words: Joel Olsteen.

[mellincf]

Again, you are correct. Martin Luther was lucky he wasn't burned at the stake. Yet the Catholic Church has a billion followers. Far more than any other Christian sect. Seriously, a "foreign" language? The language was universally understood by all, everywhere in the world. But you remind me of the old saw: A trilingual person speaks 3 languages, a bilingual person speaks 2 languages, and an American only can handle one language.

[Wiotte]

Isn't it nuts? I can see being a Protestant...but a Catholic? Them boys are crazy! Some of the sh!t they believe and do. The Catholic Church may be the richest organization on the planet...and yet every Sunday they're begging for more.



I don't trust the judgment of the highly religious...what else do they blindly believe?



My wife is Lutheran. I fu ck with her all the time. Her guy started this whole mess. If Luther wasn't such a malcontent you wouldn't have those idiots dancing with venomous snakes. We'd still all be Catholics and the universe of faithful as we know it would be as one.

[Wiotte]

Seriously, a "foreign" language? The language was universally understood by all, everywhere in the world. But you remind me of the old saw: A trilingual person speaks 3 languages, a bilingual person speaks 2 languages, and an American only can handle one language.



You quoted the wrong guy. *see Don Baldwin.

[Island57]

:agree:

Well, I had decided not to respond to the original post by Wiotte because an article in the Los Angeles Times is so obviously prejudiced. But after I saw Rubicon's response I decided to chime in in support.

The allegation that "White Evangelicals" are racist is so ludicrous that it hardly seems worthy of bothering to refute it. One only needs to point to the self-sacrifice of millions of White missionaries to Africa, China, and South America for over a century, and nothing more really needs to be said.

Missionaries whose sole motivation was to introduce others to the love of Christ, at the cost of personal comfort, disease, and even death, are truly maligned by accusations of racism.

Several years ago my home church "adopted" a village in western Africa and periodically sends teams of lay people to assist in improving the living conditions in that village. Our congregation has funded digging several fresh water wells to provide people with safe, sanitary, drinking water.

A while back my church promoted the purchase of efficient wood burning stoves for people in outlying areas of South America who were still cooking over open fires. I am not blowing my own horn when I say that I personally funded the full cost of one of those stoves.

This whole "White Christians are racists" theme is just another Liberal attack on Conservatives of every type. The writers make fools of themselves in attributing motives to Christians that are transparently false.

Carl in Tampa

.
Bull****. The only reason your church or any evangelical goes abroad is to continue the systematic brain washing that religious cults need to expand and survive. You go where education is minimum and people are most vulnerable. If you really want to do good work, volunteer locally. With no payback. Keep your beliefs to yourself.

[Carl in Tampa]

Don Baldwin

That's EXACTLY WHY they didn't want them reading the Bible...or even KNOW what they were saying! Everything was kept in Latin SPECIFICALLY to CONTROL what the congregation heard...and therefore believed. Why allow them to question the official party line?

I can't believe someone would be in a "religion" where everything was in a foreign language. You couldn't read the books, you didn't understand what the priests were chanting. ALL you had was what they told you it said/they were saying. Unbelievable what "intelligent" people will do/believe.

Edit:

A reason the Protestants..."protestors"...left and formed their own churches...they didn't agree with the party line that didn't agree with their "interpretation". So now we have over 5,000 different Christian sects.

There is a lot of history to be understood in order to comprehend the reach of the Catholic Church. Mainly, remember that as the Church flourished in Europe, the Catholics practiced infant baptism, so virtually everyone thought of themselves as Christian, no matter how little instruction they had received.

They were also almost all illiterate. The educated were Roman Citizens, so the language was Latin, which became the language of the priesthood. So, wherever a Church was established, the service was in Latin. The change to allow Catholic Mass to be observed in local languages has occurred in my lifetime. So, you see, the use of Latin in church was perhaps less sinister than you might think.

Martin Luther's break with the Catholic Church was triggered by the sale of Papal "indulgences" which were sort of "get out of purgatory free" cards. He challenged the concept, as well as being saved by good works. His great awakening was reading the scripture that said "The Just shall live by faith."

It is noteworthy that although Luther is credited as leading the Protestant Revolution, there was another group that already opposed the Catholic Church. It was a group called Anabaptists (Re-baptizers.) They rejected infant baptism and insisted that a Christian should be baptized when he had attained the maturity to make his own decision about becoming a Christian. To his discredit, Luther approved of burning Anabaptists at the stake.

I am a Baptist. One who believes that baptism should be after committing to be a Christian.

Carl in Tampa

.

[Wiotte]

There is a lot of history to be understood in order to comprehend the reach of the Catholic Church. Mainly, remember that as the Church flourished in Europe, the Catholics practiced infant baptism, so virtually everyone thought of themselves as Christian, no matter how little instruction they had received.



They were also almost all illiterate. The educated were Roman Citizens, so the language was Latin, which became the language of the priesthood. So, wherever a Church was established, the service was in Latin. The change to allow Catholic Mass to be observed in local languages has occurred in my lifetime. So, you see, the use of Latin in church was perhaps less sinister than you might think.



Martin Luther's break with the Catholic Church was triggered by the sale of Papal "indulgences" which were sort of "get out of purgatory free" cards. He challenged the concept, as well as being saved by good works. His great awakening was reading the scripture that said "The Just shall live by faith."



It is noteworthy that although Luther is credited as leading the Protestant Revolution, there was another group that already opposed the Catholic Church. It was a group called Anabaptists (Re-baptizers.) They rejected infant baptism and insisted that a Christian should be baptized when he had attained the maturity to make his own decision about becoming a Christian. To his discredit, Luther approved of burning Anabaptists at the stake.



I am a Baptist. One who believes that baptism should be after committing to be a Christian.



Carl in Tampa



.



The sacrament of Confirmation covers that problem.

[Island57]

Well first remember that neither Paul, nor any of the writers of the Gospels, ever met the historical Jesus, so all of the Gospels are just hearsay. The oldest Gospel in the Bible is the Gospel of John, written no less than 85 years after the historical Jesus was dead. And anyway Paul was an old misogynist. Does your wife cover her head with a hijab, or are you forced to shave her bald? (1 Corinthians 11:6).
Xtians treating the bible like a smorgasbord. Picking out only the parts they find taste good. Blinded by brainwashing. Convinced by connivers. Shafted by shysters.

[Wiotte]

Xtians treating the bible like a smorgasbord. Picking out only the parts they find taste good. Blinded by brainwashing. Convinced by connivers. Shafted by shysters.



Now, tell us how you really feel. Is it really that hard to type "Chris" rather than an X ?

[Carl in Tampa]

mellincf

Well first remember that neither Paul, nor any of the writers of the Gospels, ever met the historical Jesus, so all of the Gospels are just hearsay. The oldest Gospel in the Bible is the Gospel of John, written no less than 85 years after the historical Jesus was dead. And anyway Paul was an old misogynist. Does your wife cover her head with a hijab, or are you forced to shave her bald? (1 Corinthians 11:6).

You sound like someone who gets his facts from Wikipedia, where anyone can go and edit the material.

This subject is too complex to debate in a forum format. The content can easily take an entire semester in college to study and discuss.

Besides which, your assertions do not prevent the belief that the books of the Bible were inspired by God.

Carl in Tampa


.

[Carl in Tampa]

The sacrament of Confirmation covers that problem.

The difference being that a belief that infant baptism saves is incorrect.

And an insincere Confirmation is ineffective.

I wasn't arguing theology, but explaining why there was a time in Europe when everyone in the uneducated and illiterate masses considered themselves to be Christians.

Carl in Tampa

[Carl in Tampa]

Island57

Bull****. The only reason your church or any evangelical goes abroad is to continue the systematic brain washing that religious cults need to expand and survive. You go where education is minimum and people are most vulnerable. If you really want to do good work, volunteer locally. With no payback. Keep your beliefs to yourself.

Every Southern Baptist Church is an independent, autonomous, self-governing congregation, and Evangelical efforts do nothing to expand the local church.

Volunteer locally, with no payback?

Maybe you mean by establishing and financing a new congregation in a predominately Black neighborhood in Tampa, with a Black minister.

Or financially rescuing the only church on Davis Islands several years ago as it was being forced to close because it was so deep in debt.

Or, revitalizing another failing church in the Ballast Point area.

Or, establishing a Spanish language service church, using our facilities for their services.

Or, operating a mission church in Sulphur Springs where our pastor goes to preach a sermon every Sunday, after already preaching in our own facility twice that morning. This would be in the poorest section of the Springs, where our members visit the area and try to physically improve the living conditions of the residents.

And guess what. Our members also periodically go to the Sheriff's Office District III office and provide meals for the deputies. In the last few weeks we even went out and washed their patrol cars to express our appreciation for their service.

And today, this very moment, there are uncounted numbers of Southern Baptist Disaster Relief volunteers in Texas, providing thousands of hot meals every day to victims of the Hurricane and record rains that are pounding the area. Our volunteers are unpaid, and will never accept payment for what they do for the disaster victims.

Consider that perhaps you do not know whereof you speak.


Carl in Tampa

.

[Don Baldwin]

Well first remember that neither Paul, nor any of the writers of the Gospels, ever met the historical Jesus, so all of the Gospels are just hearsay. The oldest Gospel in the Bible is the Gospel of John, written no less than 85 years after the historical Jesus was dead. And anyway Paul was an old misogynist. Does your wife cover her head with a hijab, or are you forced to shave her bald? (1 Corinthians 11:6).

Hearsay that has been rewritten over and over. There are NO contemporary records/writings on Jesus. Christianity is PAUL.

Seriously, a "foreign" language? The language was universally understood by all, everywhere in the world. But you remind me of the old saw: A trilingual person speaks 3 languages, a bilingual person speaks 2 languages, and an American only can handle one language.

Yes a foreign language...do you speak latin? Mass was in latin until quite recently.

Xtians treating the bible like a smorgasbord. Picking out only the parts they find taste good. Blinded by brainwashing. Convinced by connivers. Shafted by shysters.

Relativism...it's why there are more than 5,000 sects. Each "interpreting" as they wish to interpret.

"I'll "save" you...for 10%.

There's a reason they start them off as infants...they have no defense and will believe it for life.

You sound like someone who gets his facts from Wikipedia, where anyone can go and edit the material.

This subject is too complex to debate in a forum format. The content can easily take an entire semester in college to study and discuss.

Besides which, your assertions do not prevent the belief that the books of the Bible were inspired by God.

Carl in Tampa


.

Oh come on Carl...any SERIOUS religious scholar knows all this. The Books attributed to John, Luke, Mathew...etc...are all anonymous, bits and pieces from various authors over the years. Whole books were deleted out of the Bible because they didn't conform to the "message" they wanted.

You REALLY believe the Bible is the "Word of God"? Literally?

They spend whole semesters studying OTHER works of fiction too.

Barnum was right...

[Wiotte]

Hearsay that has been rewritten over and over. There are NO contemporary records/writings on Jesus. Christianity is PAUL.



Yes a foreign language...do you speak latin? Mass was in latin until quite recently.



Relativism...it's why there are more than 5,000 sects. Each "interpreting" as they wish to interpret.

"I'll "save" you...for 10%.

There's a reason they start them off as infants...they have no defense and will believe it for life.



Oh come on Carl...any SERIOUS religious scholar knows all this. The Books attributed to John, Luke, Mathew...etc...are all anonymous, bits and pieces from various authors over the years. Whole books were deleted out of the Bible because they didn't conform to the "message" they wanted.

You REALLY believe the Bible is the "Word of God"? Literally?

They spend whole semesters studying OTHER works of fiction too.

Barnum was right...



This guy is contemporary and PT Barnum would like.


Anton LaVey - Wikipedia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anton_LaVey)

[Wiotte]

Hearsay that has been rewritten over and over. There are NO contemporary records/writings on Jesus. Christianity is PAUL.



Yes a foreign language...do you speak latin? Mass was in latin until quite recently.



Relativism...it's why there are more than 5,000 sects. Each "interpreting" as they wish to interpret.

"I'll "save" you...for 10%.

There's a reason they start them off as infants...they have no defense and will believe it for life.



Oh come on Carl...any SERIOUS religious scholar knows all this. The Books attributed to John, Luke, Mathew...etc...are all anonymous, bits and pieces from various authors over the years. Whole books were deleted out of the Bible because they didn't conform to the "message" they wanted.

You REALLY believe the Bible is the "Word of God"? Literally?

They spend whole semesters studying OTHER works of fiction too.

Barnum was right...



This guy is contemporary and PT Barnum would like.


Anton LaVey - Wikipedia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anton_LaVey)

[Carl in Tampa]

Don Baldwin

Oh come on Carl...any SERIOUS religious scholar knows all this. The Books attributed to John, Luke, Mathew...etc...are all anonymous, bits and pieces from various authors over the years. Whole books were deleted out of the Bible because they didn't conform to the "message" they wanted.

You REALLY believe the Bible is the "Word of God"? Literally?

They spend whole semesters studying OTHER works of fiction too.

Barnum was right...

Good try, Don. But, as I said, the discussion is too complex for a discussion on a social media forum.

And, yes, I REALLY believe the Bible is the "Word of God." Literally? you ask. I would say rather, "true," but expressed in a variety of literary styles, suitable to the various authors and periods in which they wrote.

Beyond that, I see no purpose in debating an entrenched unbeliever. Converting you is not my responsibility once I know that you know where to find the truth. The Bible.

Carl in Tampa

.

[Don Baldwin]

This guy is contemporary and PT Barnum would like.


Anton LaVey - Wikipedia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anton_LaVey)

No wiotte...contemporary to Jesus. There is NOT ONE record from that time of Jesus. Josephus doesn't write of "Christ" until well after Jesus' death. Jesus is not mentioned by name.

[Don Baldwin]

Good try, Don. But, as I said, the discussion is too complex for a discussion on a social media forum.

And, yes, I REALLY believe the Bible is the "Word of God." Literally? you ask. I would say rather, "true," but expressed in a variety of literary styles, suitable to the various authors and periods in which they wrote.

Beyond that, I see no purpose in debating an entrenched unbeliever. Converting you is not my responsibility once I know that you know where to find the truth. The Bible.

Carl in Tampa

.

Well...you can't show me the black villages...the black Oxford...the black IBM.

How about showing me proof that Jesus existed. Contemporary records from the time of Jesus. The earliest record I know is Josephus and it's 30 some years after the fact and doesn't mention Jesus by name as the Christ.

What about the reshuffling of the Bible? The removing of "difficult" books? All the different translations? How many versions are there?

"Currently, there are more than 40 different versions in English, from the King James Version, which was published in 1611 and is still going strong, to modern versions, some of them in very simplified English."

They're ALL the direct word of God? I don't think so.

There IS no purpose debating me. ALL you have is faith.

[Carl in Tampa]

Don Baldwin

Well...you can't show me the black villages...the black Oxford...the black IBM.

How about showing me proof that Jesus existed. Contemporary records from the time of Jesus. The earliest record I know is Josephus and it's 30 some years after the fact and doesn't mention Jesus by name as the Christ.

What about the reshuffling of the Bible? The removing of "difficult" books? All the different translations? How many versions are there?

"Currently, there are more than 40 different versions in English, from the King James Version, which was published in 1611 and is still going strong, to modern versions, some of them in very simplified English."

They're ALL the direct word of God? I don't think so.

There IS no purpose debating me. ALL you have is faith.

You are wasting your time trying to bait me into a big debate, Don.

The New Testament testimony does contain eyewitness authors who were with Jesus and who knew him, including the Apostle Peter, the Apostle John, and the brothers (family members) of Jesus. And of course the Gospel of Mark was written by John Mark, Peter's scribe, who got his information from eyewitness Peter. The Synoptic Gospels do not all contain the same stories because they are written for different audiences; I will not detail them here.

And here is the most convincing fact. Most of Jesus' Apostles died as martyrs rather than renounce their faith in Him, because they had seen him Risen after His death. People do not take such strong stands without strong motivation.

And, finally, there is, as you say, Faith. Thank God, I have been granted this gift. (John 6:65) I would wish the same for you. It would surely change your unfortunate attitude towards people of other races. (Galatians 3:28)


Carl in Tampa

.

[Wiotte]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170830/3e6ee9a1f1bffe3d683db3c8f28de424.jpg

Don's fishing charter

[Wiotte]

You are wasting your time trying to bait me into a big debate, Don.



The New Testament testimony does contain eyewitness authors who were with Jesus and who knew him, including the Apostle Peter, the Apostle John, and the brothers (family members) of Jesus. And of course the Gospel of Mark was written by John Mark, Peter's scribe, who got his information from eyewitness Peter. The Synoptic Gospels do not all contain the same stories because they are written for different audiences; I will not detail them here.



And here is the most convincing fact. Most of Jesus' Apostles died as martyrs rather than renounce their faith in Him, because they had seen him Risen after His death. People do not take such strong stands without strong motivation.



And, finally, there is, as you say, Faith. Thank God, I have been granted this gift. (John 6:65) I would wish the same for you. It would surely change your unfortunate attitude towards people of other races. (Galatians 3:28)





Carl in Tampa



.



If you've never had it, how does a person acquire faith ? What if it isn't gifted to you ? And how would you know if it were gifted or know if it wasn't ?

[Carl in Tampa]

Don Baldwin

Well...you can't show me the black villages...the black Oxford...the black IBM.

How about showing me proof that Jesus existed. Contemporary records from the time of Jesus. The earliest record I know is Josephus and it's 30 some years after the fact and doesn't mention Jesus by name as the Christ.

What about the reshuffling of the Bible? The removing of "difficult" books? All the different translations? How many versions are there?

"Currently, there are more than 40 different versions in English, from the King James Version, which was published in 1611 and is still going strong, to modern versions, some of them in very simplified English."

They're ALL the direct word of God? I don't think so.

There IS no purpose debating me. ALL you have is faith.

This response is not for Don, who knows the answers to many questions that he asks, just to be argumentative. But, for others who are curious about the decision of what books were included in the Bible, and the different versions, I offer this.

First, those who believe in the Bible being literal and inerrant only believe that this was true of the original text, and they acknowledge that there are not original texts still in existence. They acknowledge that copying mistakes might have crept into the many copies, which were made by hand, but do not believe that it has made a significant difference in the message.

Of course the original books of the Bible were not written in English. Much of the Old Testament originated in Hebrew; much of the New Testament in Greek. Since the major international language at the time that the Christian Church began to grow in Europe was Latin, translations into Latin were frequent.

At the time of the Protestant Revolution, Luther translated the Bible into German. In England, in the 1300's, John Wycliffe translated the Catholic Latin Vulgate Bible into English. He was often in conflict with the Catholic Church and after his death he was declared a heretic and his writings were burned.

But by 1611, England's King James authorized an English translation of the Bible, which is, in updated versions, still used in the United States today. This version is considered to be suitable for people with a 12th grade education. There are other, simplified versions for people with less reading skill.

There have been a number of translations over the years, some simply upgrading existing translations, others going back to the oldest available copies in Greek, and trying to be as literal as possible, while still readable. The New American Standard Bible is one such translation.

What is noteworthy, is that none of these various translations have produced any significant difference in the understanding of Christian Doctrine. They are simply directed towards audiences of varying reading skills.

With regard to what books were selected to become the "Canonized" books of the Bible, your web browser will take you to many articles on the subject. See the last paragraph in the linked article.

How and when was the canon of the Bible put together? (https://www.gotquestions.org/canon-Bible.html)


Carl in Tampa

.

[Don Baldwin]

You are wasting your time trying to bait me into a big debate, Don.

The New Testament testimony does contain eyewitness authors who were with Jesus and who knew him, including the Apostle Peter, the Apostle John, and the brothers (family members) of Jesus. And of course the Gospel of Mark was written by John Mark, Peter's scribe, who got his information from eyewitness Peter. The Synoptic Gospels do not all contain the same stories because they are written for different audiences; I will not detail them here.

And here is the most convincing fact. Most of Jesus' Apostles died as martyrs rather than renounce their faith in Him, because they had seen him Risen after His death. People do not take such strong stands without strong motivation.

And, finally, there is, as you say, Faith. Thank God, I have been granted this gift. (John 6:65) I would wish the same for you. It would surely change your unfortunate attitude towards people of other races. (Galatians 3:28)


Carl in Tampa

.

No...the NT does NOT contain "original" writings by ANYONE who "knew Jesus". There is NOT ONE piece of writing that dates back to the time of Jesus that talks about him...not one. NO original documents. You can SAY that your Bible that has changed languages and been rewritten is "direct" from the author...but it isn't. Those books are ALL considered anonymous because they've been rewritten so much.

They could be considered the product of failed memory...basically, they're the same story...but MANY details don't match.

Jim Jones had a WHOLE LOT of martyrs who "died for the cause"...Heaven's Gate...people died for their beliefs...Waco...the list goes on. Jesus is NOT unique in that respect.

NOBODY saw him rise from the dead. Some SAID they saw him after...so? Paul said a LOT of stuff he knew nothing about...he's what? 1/4? 1/3 of the NT writings?

Trust me Carl...you know not where you tread...I had a lot of time on my hands and I did a LOT of reading. Wondering WHAT am I missing? These people believe SO passionately...why don't I see what they see? I realized...the truth is...it's all made up bullsh!t...every word of it. Christianity isn't the ONLY religion out there you know. Others have passionate believers too. And their religions sometimes make a lot more sense.

You REALLY think that God talked to people way back when but doesn't any more? It's been 2,000 years without a peep. How come? The planet is FAR worse off now than then. In your NT Jesus says "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." Matthew 16:28 "Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom." (http://biblehub.com/matthew/16-28.htm)

Where is he? He's REALLY late. Or do they walk among us?

How would it change my attitude? They'd stop leeching? Start producing? Stop being 10X more violent? Stop destroying EVERY school? Stop destroying EVERY neighborhood? Stop destroying towns and cities? That's ALL they have to do...change their "character" to match ours. Act like civilized human beings instead of wild animals.

When MLK Blvd becomes JUST LIKE Main Street at LSL...THEN I will change my attitude. Until then, they need to be kept away...locked up in their inner city ghettos...confined to MLK Blvd and it's surroundings.

I'm SO glad EVERY black city/town area has that street...the "no-go" zone. Where NOT to book your hotel. Want to know what a neighborhood is like...determine it's distance from MLK Blvd.

[Wiotte]

No...the NT does NOT contain "original" writings by ANYONE who "knew Jesus". There is NOT ONE piece of writing that dates back to the time of Jesus that talks about him...not one. NO original documents. You can SAY that your Bible that has changed languages and been rewritten is "direct" from the author...but it isn't. Those books are ALL considered anonymous because they've been rewritten so much.



They could be considered the product of failed memory...basically, they're the same story...but MANY details don't match.



Jim Jones had a WHOLE LOT of martyrs who "died for the cause"...Heaven's Gate...people died for their beliefs...Waco...the list goes on. Jesus is NOT unique in that respect.



NOBODY saw him rise from the dead. Some SAID they saw him after...so? Paul said a LOT of stuff he knew nothing about...he's what? 1/4? 1/3 of the NT writings?



Trust me Carl...you know not where you tread...I had a lot of time on my hands and I did a LOT of reading. Wondering WHAT am I missing? These people believe SO passionately...why don't I see what they see? I realized...the truth is...it's all made up bullsh!t...every word of it. Christianity isn't the ONLY religion out there you know. Others have passionate believers too. And their religions sometimes make a lot more sense.



You REALLY think that God talked to people way back when but doesn't any more? It's been 2,000 years without a peep. How come? The planet is FAR worse off now than then. In your NT Jesus says "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." Matthew 16:28 "Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom." (http://biblehub.com/matthew/16-28.htm)



Where is he? He's REALLY late. Or do they walk among us?



How would it change my attitude? They'd stop leeching? Start producing? Stop being 10X more violent? Stop destroying EVERY school? Stop destroying EVERY neighborhood? Stop destroying towns and cities? That's ALL they have to do...change their "character" to match ours. Act like civilized human beings instead of wild animals.



When MLK Blvd becomes JUST LIKE Main Street at LSL...THEN I will change my attitude. Until then, they need to be kept away...locked up in their inner city ghettos...confined to MLK Blvd and it's surroundings.



I'm SO glad EVERY black city/town area has that street...the "no-go" zone. Where NOT to book your hotel. Want to know what a neighborhood is like...determine it's distance from MLK Blvd.



So, where did you serve time ?
Now it all makes sense...

[Don Baldwin]

So, where did you serve time ?
Now it all makes sense...

Denounce the messenger when you CAN'T denounce the message...

Debate me or are you going to roll over and post pictures of your mother again?

Show me an original text written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John.

Show me the original text written by Jesus. That one should be easy...right? God interrupts his busy "spying on people schedule"...to come all the way down here to "straighten people up". But he forgets to write ANYTHING down? He doesn't "have a girl" taking notes for the biography? Did God think this through? How come he hasn't come back as scheduled?

Show me ANY text...by ANY author at the time of Jesus that mentions him.

Show me ANY record at all of Jesus that was made at the time of Jesus.

Nobody KNOWS where he was born...lived...and died. There are guesses, but that is all they are.

My personal opinion is that Paul made up Christianity using a fictional "Jesus". Much like Muhammad invented Islam. Some people can be quite motivating. Look at the martyrs who have died following Jim Jones, Heavens Gate, Waco, Ruby Ridge...they ALL thought THEY were right too.

Farming...lots of free time between a crazy rush. When all your friends believe, it makes you wonder.

I have nothing against the "church" concept...neighbors getting together, socializing, helping each other...it's the ruse to get them there that I don't like. But, how else could you get them there...motivate them to attend. Heaven and hell are quite the motivating concept if you can get to the people (infants) early enough, before they have the skills to question.

The three big religions...Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are all related. All come from the old Jewish stories. And those stories came from stories that are even older.

The great flood...is the story of the end of the last ice age and the oceans rising 400ft. The Black Sea flooded quickly when the land at Istanbul gave way and was over-topped some say the Mediterranean filled quickly. People lived along the coasts like they do now. The coasts flooded...more and more...every year...it was the great flood. It was passed down orally until writing and then appears as "tales" because nobody could prove it ever happened and there was no writing to keep records. The great flood IS a fact in the Bible...but NOT how the Bible tells it.

I could go on and on...

[Wiotte]

Leesburg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170830/b6f3ec2f823d17967c68ed9b63a14917.png

[Wiotte]

Farmer Don
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170830/63fae87c1aa5eadd21a93f8f69f42dc7.jpg

[Carl in Tampa]

Don Baldwin


:swear:
Psalm 14:1






Carl in Tampa


.

[Wiotte]

Josephus told of Jesus in his writings.

Josephus on Jesus - Wikipedia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus)

"Modern scholarship has largely acknowledged the authenticity of the reference in Book 20, Chapter 9, 1 of the Antiquities to "the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James"[12] and considers it as having the highest level of authenticity among the references of Josephus to Christianity."

[Don Baldwin]

Josephus told of Jesus in his writings.

Josephus on Jesus - Wikipedia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus)

"Modern scholarship has largely acknowledged the authenticity of the reference in Book 20, Chapter 9, 1 of the Antiquities to "the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James"[12] and considers it as having the highest level of authenticity among the references of Josephus to Christianity."

WHEN did he write it? 60 years after Jesus died? It WASN'T during the time of Jesus...it was MANY years later.

"Josephus' Antiquities of the Jews, written around 93–94 AD"

[Wiotte]

WHEN did he write it? 60 years after Jesus died? It WASN'T during the time of Jesus...it was MANY years later.



"Josephus' Antiquities of the Jews, written around 93–94 AD"



He was a Jew, not a Christian. He had no skin in the game. He was also a citizen of Rome.

[mellincf]

Hearsay that has been rewritten over and over. There are NO contemporary records/writings on Jesus. Christianity is PAUL.



Yes a foreign language...do you speak latin? Mass was in latin until quite recently.



Relativism...it's why there are more than 5,000 sects. Each "interpreting" as they wish to interpret.

"I'll "save" you...for 10%.

There's a reason they start them off as infants...they have no defense and will believe it for life.



Oh come on Carl...any SERIOUS religious scholar knows all this. The Books attributed to John, Luke, Mathew...etc...are all anonymous, bits and pieces from various authors over the years. Whole books were deleted out of the Bible because they didn't conform to the "message" they wanted.

You REALLY believe the Bible is the "Word of God"? Literally?

They spend whole semesters studying OTHER works of fiction too.

Barnum was right... The Mass was in Latin because Latin was the universal language until English took over. The Catholic Missal had the Latin on one side of the page and across was the local language. So yes, you could follow the Mass.

[Don Baldwin]

He was a Jew, not a Christian. He had no skin in the game. He was also a citizen of Rome.

And he wrote it 60 years later. It's like you writing NOW about something that happened in 1957...how accurate is it going to be? And besides...

"Josephus wrote all of his surviving works after his establishment in Rome (c. AD 71) under the patronage of the Flavian Emperor Vespasian. As is common with ancient texts, however, there are no surviving extant manuscripts of Josephus' works that can be dated before the 11th century, and the oldest of these are all Greek minuscules, copied by Christian monks.[59] (Jews did not preserve the writings of Josephus either because they considered him to be a traitor"

"Because manuscript transmission was done by hand-copying, typically by monastic scribes, almost all ancient texts have been subject to both accidental and deliberate alterations, emendations (called interpolation) or elisions. Both the lack of any original corroborating manuscript source outside the Christian tradition as well as the practice of Christian interpolation has led to the scholarly debate regarding the authenticity of Josephus' references to Jesus in his work."

"Flavius Josephus fully defected to the Roman side and was granted Roman citizenship"

The Mass was in Latin because Latin was the universal language until English took over. The Catholic Missal had the Latin on one side of the page and across was the local language. So yes, you could follow the Mass.

It stayed in Latin a LOT longer than it had to.

You're quibbling over details...when the WHOLE thing is a lie. They lied in Latin, they lied in English...so what?

[Carl in Tampa]

Don Baldwin

Denounce the messenger when you CAN'T denounce the message...


Show me an original text written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John.

Show me the original text written by Jesus. That one should be easy...right?

Show me ANY text...by ANY author at the time of Jesus that mentions him.

Show me ANY record at all of Jesus that was made at the time of Jesus.


Wiotte seems to have struck a nerve. His question was not answered.

------------------------

I get it now. You don't like the message, so you search for reasons to deny its authenticity.

Of course you know that the Gospel of John, the letters of Peter, the letters of Jesus' brothers, etc. are contemporaneous writings of eyewitnesses to the life and actions of Jesus of Nazareth, and at the very least the Gospel of Mark was based upon accounts told to him by the Apostle Peter.

But, you seek to delegitimize all that because the original documents were handled so much in being passed from church to church that they were were worn out, and copies had to be produced. So............the "original" documents are gone. We have copies, and copies of copies. No one denies this.

Realizing that you are just looking for reasons to justify your lack of faith, I wouldn't even bother to respond to your specious arguments if it weren't for the fact that I don't want other readers to be taken in by your fallacious position.

Textual scholarship (Westcott - Hort Greek scholars), testimony of the early church fathers about the authenticity of the New Testament books (by quoting them), and establishment of a Biblical canon by church councils, all served to have us arrive at the Bible we have today.

Don't bother to shout again that we don't have any "original" written texts. I've handled that.


Carl in Tampa

.

[Don Baldwin]

Wiotte seems to have struck a nerve. His question was not answered.

------------------------

I get it now. You don't like the message, so you search for reasons to deny its authenticity.

Of course you know that the Gospel of John, the letters of Peter, the letters of Jesus' brothers, etc. are contemporaneous writings of eyewitnesses to the life and actions of Jesus of Nazareth, and at the very least the Gospel of Mark was based upon accounts told to him by the Apostle Peter.

But, you seek to delegitimize all that because the original documents were handled so much in being passed from church to church that they were were worn out, and copies had to be produced. So............the "original" documents are gone. We have copies, and copies of copies. No one denies this.

Realizing that you are just looking for reasons to justify your lack of faith, I wouldn't even bother to respond to your specious arguments if it weren't for the fact that I don't want other readers to be taken in by your fallacious position.

Textual scholarship (Westcott - Hort Greek scholars), testimony of the early church fathers about the authenticity of the New Testament books (by quoting them), and establishment of a Biblical canon by church councils, all served to have us arrive at the Bible we have today.

Don't bother to shout again that we don't have any "original" written texts. I've handled that.


Carl in Tampa

.

Listen...if "God" comes to earth to lay down the law...he's going to write it down. Jesus never wrote ANYTHING.

You can believe your religion invented by Paul...just like the Muslims believe the religion invented by Muhammad. Be my guest.

It's funny...there's NOTHING to back up ANYTHING. No 10 Commandments, no Chalice, no Ark of the Covenant, NO writings from Jesus...NOTHING...WTF??? It's ALL hearsay...and FAITH...that the man collecting 10% isn't lying to you.

It's been pushed on you since you were infants. "Sunday School" was propaganda school. They feed these VERY young kids "stories" and they swallow it hook line and sinker. Most NEVER shake it and realize how fake it all is.

How can I expect you to see this ruse when you can't even see the other big lie...racial equality. IF you were in law enforcement and actually got out into the "sh!t"...you KNOW what I'm talking about. Blacks are NOT the same as white people. They DON'T think the same, they DON'T act the same. We can go down to MLK Blvd and you can see for yourself just how different the 99% are.

If you don't want people talking sh!t about your religion...don't bring it up.

There are as many Muslims as there are Christians...why do you think YOU are right and they are wrong? You DO know they think the same about you...YOU are wrong and they are right. You're BOTH wrong.

[Wiotte]

Listen...if "God" comes to earth to lay down the law...he's going to write it down. Jesus never wrote ANYTHING.



You can believe your religion invented by Paul...just like the Muslims believe the religion invented by Muhammad. Be my guest.



It's funny...there's NOTHING to back up ANYTHING. No 10 Commandments, no Chalice, no Ark of the Covenant, NO writings from Jesus...NOTHING...WTF??? It's ALL hearsay...and FAITH...that the man collecting 10% isn't lying to you.



It's been pushed on you since you were infants. "Sunday School" was propaganda school. They feed these VERY young kids "stories" and they swallow it hook line and sinker. Most NEVER shake it and realize how fake it all is.



How can I expect you to see this ruse when you can't even see the other big lie...racial equality. IF you were in law enforcement and actually got out into the "sh!t"...you KNOW what I'm talking about. Blacks are NOT the same as white people. They DON'T think the same, they DON'T act the same. We can go down to MLK Blvd and you can see for yourself just how different the 99% are.



If you don't want people talking sh!t about your religion...don't bring it up.



There are as many Muslims as there are Christians...why do you think YOU are right and they are wrong? You DO know they think the same about you...YOU are wrong and they are right. You're BOTH wrong.



"To begin, atheism involves a logical fallacy known as a universal negative. Simply stated, a person would have to be omniscient and omnipresent to be able to say "there is no God" from his own pool of knowledge. Only someone capable of being in all places at the same time — with a perfect knowledge of all that is in the universe — can make such a statement based on the facts. In other words, a person would have to be God to say there is no God. Hence, the assertion is logically indefensible."

This makes sense Don

[Carl in Tampa]

Don Baldwin

Listen...if "God" comes to earth to lay down the law...he's going to write it down. Jesus never wrote ANYTHING.

"Jesus stooped down and with His finger wrote on the ground. But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” Again He stooped down and wrote on the ground." John 8:6-8 That would be eyewitness, the Apostle John.

It's funny...there's NOTHING to back up ANYTHING. No 10 Commandments, no Chalice, no Ark of the Covenant, NO writings from Jesus...NOTHING...WTF??? It's ALL hearsay...and FAITH...that the man collecting 10% isn't lying to you.

There is the existence of the independent, self-governing Nation of Israel today, after it ceased to exist with the fall of the Roman Empire, in which it was a mere province. Restoration was fulfillment of ancient prophecy.


How can I expect you to see this ruse when you can't even see the other big lie...racial equality. IF you were in law enforcement and actually got out into the "sh!t"...you KNOW what I'm talking about. Blacks are NOT the same as white people. They DON'T think the same, they DON'T act the same.

See the photograph, below.


You don't get to set the rules on how God behaves when he becomes incarnate on Earth. You are also not the first to make that mistake.

Your reliance on the need for ancient documents to bolster your belief is naive and touching. Perhaps you could produce the cup from which Socrates drank the hemlock. Or, for that matter, any original document that he wrote. Can't? Oh, then by your logic there was no Socrates.

Did the Seven Wonders of the World exist? Really? Where? We see the pyramids, but have no idea where the Hanging Gardens of Babylon were located. Except, maybe somewhere in Babylon, of course.

Was there really a great poet and play writer named Shakespeare, or was all of that work written by Edward de Vere, Earl of Oxford? Prove your answer.

Your problem continues to be a demand for proof when Christianity is based upon faith.

And, as I have already observed. You are not seeking Truth, but rather a way to reject Christian teachings.


Carl in Tampa

.

[Don Baldwin]

"To begin, atheism involves a logical fallacy known as a universal negative. Simply stated, a person would have to be omniscient and omnipresent to be able to say "there is no God" from his own pool of knowledge. Only someone capable of being in all places at the same time — with a perfect knowledge of all that is in the universe — can make such a statement based on the facts. In other words, a person would have to be God to say there is no God. Hence, the assertion is logically indefensible."

This makes sense Don

Oh please...YOU are the one claiming something exists...prove it. I've heard there are geese who lay golden eggs...can you PROVE they don't exist?

YOUR claim is logically indefensible. You CAN'T prove something doesn't exist...but that's NOT my job...it's YOUR JOB to PROVE it does...otherwise it's just a story...like MANY others.

You don't get to set the rules on how God behaves when he becomes incarnate on Earth. You are also not the first to make that mistake.

Your reliance on the need for ancient documents to bolster your belief is naive and touching. Perhaps you could produce the cup from which Socrates drank the hemlock. Or, for that matter, any original document that he wrote. Can't? Oh, then by your logic there was no Socrates.

Did the Seven Wonders of the World exist? Really? Where? We see the pyramids, but have no idea where the Hanging Gardens of Babylon were located. Except, maybe somewhere in Babylon, of course.

Was there really a great poet and play writer named Shakespeare, or was all of that work written by Edward de Vere, Earl of Oxford? Prove your answer.

Your problem continues to be a demand for proof when Christianity is based upon faith.

And, as I have already observed. You are not seeking Truth, but rather a way to reject Christian teachings.


Carl in Tampa

.

I'm NOT claiming there WAS a Socrates/Jesus...YOU are.

I don't have to prove anything...I'm NOT making the claim...YOU are. YOU prove Shakespeare existed if you claim he did. Many believe "Shakespeare WAS more than one persons writings. Same with Homer.

was shakespeare real - Google Search (https://www.google.com/search?q=was+shakespeare+real&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8)

YOUR problem is you accept faith with no proof.

"You don't get to set the rules on how God behaves when he becomes incarnate on Earth."

Maybe not...but I sure as hell CAN tell "God" what he did wrong. You'd think an all powerful. all knowing "God" would have thought it through a little better and maybe left a few writings...SOME real hard evidence he was here...his message...in a concrete form so we'd never forget. Why not? God WANTED people to have to remember orally? Make their own interpretation?

Do you think Islam is "wrong"? Judaism? Hinduism? Buddhism? Which Christian sect has it right?

Catholic Church - 1.285 billion.
Protestantism - 800 million.
Eastern Orthodoxy - 270 million.
Oriental Orthodoxy - 86 million.
Anglicanism - 85 million.
Restorationism and Nontrinitarianism - 35 million.
Independent Catholicism - 18 million.

I posit...NONE of them. YOU go ahead and PROVE one of them IS correct.

The onus is on YOU to PROVE what you believe in is REAL. It's NOT up to me to disprove it.

I can't believe that in 2017 there are people who believe in a "God" who created the universe, created life, including us...who CARES what each and every one of us is doing/thinking at all times...and is judging us to determine whether we deserve heaven or hell. IF he knows EVERYTHING...he knew the answer BEFORE we were born.

The biggest question is...where did "God" come from? The most powerful, smartest thing even beyond the universe...just happened? Was always there?

I don't think so...

Let me comment on your picture...do you notice the difference? I do. The WHITE guy is a VOLUNTEER...the black guy...is WORKING...he's getting PAID to do it. White people VOLUNTEER...a LOT...blacks...hardly EVER. There's the difference.

[affald]

Menendez, McCain, Ginsberg, Midterms!!!

Liberals keep talking nonsense as if voters will fall for it, keep it up!

[mellincf]

Wiotte seems to have struck a nerve. His question was not answered.

------------------------

I get it now. You don't like the message, so you search for reasons to deny its authenticity.

Of course you know that the Gospel of John, the letters of Peter, the letters of Jesus' brothers, etc. are contemporaneous writings of eyewitnesses to the life and actions of Jesus of Nazareth, and at the very least the Gospel of Mark was based upon accounts told to him by the Apostle Peter.

But, you seek to delegitimize all that because the original documents were handled so much in being passed from church to church that they were were worn out, and copies had to be produced. So............the "original" documents are gone. We have copies, and copies of copies. No one denies this.

Realizing that you are just looking for reasons to justify your lack of faith, I wouldn't even bother to respond to your specious arguments if it weren't for the fact that I don't want other readers to be taken in by your fallacious position.

Textual scholarship (Westcott - Hort Greek scholars), testimony of the early church fathers about the authenticity of the New Testament books (by quoting them), and establishment of a Biblical canon by church councils, all served to have us arrive at the Bible we have today.

Don't bother to shout again that we don't have any "original" written texts. I've handled that.


Carl in Tampa

. The Gospel of "John" was written years after the death of Jesus. Peter never met Jesus and lived hundreds of miles from Jerusalem. So these are the very least third hand reports. I don't doubt that a messianistic historical figure lived at the time (whatever his name was) but to give the appearance of quoting him word for word and then basing an entire belief system on those sayings without even questioning their validity, is...foolish.

[Don Baldwin]

The Gospel of "John" was written years after the death of Jesus. Peter never met Jesus and lived hundreds of miles from Jerusalem. So these are the very least third hand reports. I don't doubt that a messianistic historical figure lived at the time (whatever his name was) but to give the appearance of quoting him word for word and then basing an entire belief system on those sayings without even questioning their validity, is...foolish.

There were MANY "prophets" running around at the time.

I believe that Paul created a amalgam...a "best of" to use to created HIS version of "Christianity". The Jews in power didn't buy that ANY of the prophets were "the one".

IF "God" went through all that trouble...a stupid thing really if you think about it...to manifest himself in our form and "teach us"...he did a **** poor job of it.

And WHY? Why bother with bacteria? That IS what we are to a being like that...below bacteria. Do you care what each individual bacterium does/thinks/treats his neighbor? Then why would God care about us?

I don't blame you...you were indoctrinated, brainwashed at an early age. I blame those who would extract a 10% tithe from everyone they can.

Of course, "you" is in the broad, general sense. You mellin are aware of the scam.

[Carl in Tampa]

Don Baldwin


:swear:
Psalm 14:1



The onus is on YOU to PROVE ................





Oh, my friend, you have clearly failed to understand what I told you previously. I did not set out to convince you of anything, so I have no obligation to prove anything.

In fact, most of my remarks have been directed toward other readers who might be easily mislead by your specious reasoning. In fact, I am confident that until I directed your attention towards Socrates, you had never given a thought to doubting that he once lived.

For those other readers, here is a quick review of some evidences of the transforming power of God's love.

1. The Apostle Paul - Prior to his conversion after being stricken blind while on the road to Damascus, Paul had consented to the stoning of Christians. His mission in Damascus was to arrest Christians and take them to Jerusalem for judgement. His entire life changed after encountering Jesus, and he became the most active missionary for Christianity in the Bible.

2. The Twelve Apostles - All of the Apostles, including the one chosen to replace Judas, had witnessed the risen Jesus, and would die as martyrs (except John) rather than renounce him. John died in exile on the Isle of Patmos, after writing the Gospel of John, the Johannine letters, and Revelation.

3. John Newton - Newton went to sea at age 11 under his father, a British sea captain. Newton was a vile, obscene, dishonest man, who rose through the ranks to become a sea captain himself. He was Captain of a slave ship, transporting slaves from Africa to the Caribbean British Colonies.

After his conversion to Christianity, Newton continued at sea for a while, apparently unfeeling towards the slaves. Finally, after an illness, he gave up the sea. Several years later he was accepted into the Anglican priesthood. His revulsion towards the slave trade was finally complete and he worked with other English abolitionists to pass the laws that ended the slave trade throughout the British Empire.

He is the author of the song "Amazing Grace."

I'm sure Don won't be able to stand watching this video. The rest of you might find it illuminating and interesting. It explains the title of this post.

Wintley Phipps Sings Amazing Grace at Carnegie Hall - YouTube on Vimeo (https://vimeo.com/56399119)


Carl in Tampa


.

[mellincf]

There were MANY "prophets" running around at the time.

I believe that Paul created a amalgam...a "best of" to use to created HIS version of "Christianity". The Jews in power didn't buy that ANY of the prophets were "the one".

IF "God" went through all that trouble...a stupid thing really if you think about it...to manifest himself in our form and "teach us"...he did a **** poor job of it.

And WHY? Why bother with bacteria? That IS what we are to a being like that...below bacteria. Do you care what each individual bacterium does/thinks/treats his neighbor? Then why would God care about us?

I don't blame you...you were indoctrinated, brainwashed at an early age. I blame those who would extract a 10% tithe from everyone they can.

Of course, "you" is in the broad, general sense. You mellin are aware of the scam.Constantine's mother, at the age of 80 or so, visited Jerusalem for the first time. She was able to walk just so far with her physical limitations, and every time she was getting tired and needed to rest, there was yet another spot where Jesus supposedly did something or other, which she could then sit and admire. A friend who visited told me she toured Paul's mother's house. When I snorted, she said "Oh, they kept good records." Now the United States of America keeps pretty good records, but I defy you to find Paul Revere's mother's house, and we're talking two hundred years versus two thousand years. In other words, tourists have always been pretty good marks. So yes, a book which begins with two incestuous nudists who took dietary advice from a talking snake is not my idea of a foundation for a serious religion.

[ColdNoMore]

Constantine's mother, at the age of 80 or so, visited Jerusalem for the first time. She was able to walk just so far with her physical limitations, and every time she was getting tired and needed to rest, there was yet another spot where Jesus supposedly did something or other, which she could then sit and admire. A friend who visited told me she toured Paul's mother's house. When I snorted, she said "Oh, they kept good records." Now the United States of America keeps pretty good records, but I defy you to find Paul Revere's mother's house, and we're talking two hundred years versus two thousand years. In other words, tourists have always been pretty good marks.

So yes, a book which begins with two incestuous nudists who took dietary advice from a talking snake is not my idea of a foundation for a serious religion.

Awesome!! :1rotfl:


:BigApplause:

[Abby10]

Oh, my friend, you have clearly failed to understand what I told you previously. I did not set out to convince you of anything, so I have no obligation to prove anything.

In fact, most of my remarks have been directed toward other readers who might be easily mislead by your specious reasoning. In fact, I am confident that until I directed your attention towards Socrates, you had never given a thought to doubting that he once lived.

For those other readers, here is a quick review of some evidences of the transforming power of God's love.

1. The Apostle Paul - Prior to his conversion after being stricken blind while on the road to Damascus, Paul had consented to the stoning of Christians. His mission in Damascus was to arrest Christians and take them to Jerusalem for judgement. His entire life changed after encountering Jesus, and he became the most active missionary for Christianity in the Bible.

2. The Twelve Apostles - All of the Apostles, including the one chosen to replace Judas, had witnessed the risen Jesus, and would die as martyrs (except John) rather than renounce him. John died in exile on the Isle of Patmos, after writing the Gospel of John, the Johannine letters, and Revelation.

3. John Newton - Newton went to sea at age 11 under his father, a British sea captain. Newton was a vile, obscene, dishonest man, who rose through the ranks to become a sea captain himself. He was Captain of a slave ship, transporting slaves from Africa to the Caribbean British Colonies.

After his conversion to Christianity, Newton continued at sea for a while, apparently unfeeling towards the slaves. Finally, after an illness, he gave up the sea. Several years later he was accepted into the Anglican priesthood. His revulsion towards the slave trade was finally complete and he worked with other English abolitionists to pass the laws that ended the slave trade throughout the British Empire.

He is the author of the song "Amazing Grace."

I'm sure Don won't be able to stand watching this video. The rest of you might find it illuminating and interesting. It explains the title of this post.

Wintley Phipps Sings Amazing Grace at Carnegie Hall - YouTube on Vimeo (https://vimeo.com/56399119)


Carl in Tampa


.

Thank you, Carl, for the link to that video.......goosebumps from beginning to end. And thank you for being a light amongst a lot of darkness on this forum.

[dirtbanker]

Hey for us agnostic, are you guys playing a video game?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

[rubicon]

After re-read this entire thread I am left with these thoughts.

Men cannot accurately record today's news and its readers all walk away with different interpretations. And yet here we are debating the ancient history, the Bible, etc and yet we know that corrupt men corrupt trying to retain history on their side

And so history provides their version of the story (Spartans-Athenians, Calvary-Indians Protestants-Catholics Confederate-Union Armies)

The ubiquitous questions on every human beings mind are "who made us" what is our purpose" and the like
And for every philosophical question that creates a vacuum someone is there to fill it.

Religion is in my view good. What is bad are those who would distort religion for their selfish purposes.

I did not need anyone to tell me I am spiritual, Its instinctive. i alwyas knew it and felt it

I did not need anyone to tell me to reject homosexuality. It was instinctive and in my view unnatural.

I did not need anyone to point out that people different than me are both good and bad, just like people like me.

I did not need anyone to tell me that some of the teachings by my church didn't fit. and as a side bar was sorry they made the decision to forego the mass in Latin. I was an altar boy and learned the prayers in Latin. what a beautiful language

I viewed the teachings of the Bible more as important lessons in human behaviors and admonitions. I'll leave the divinity issues, etc to more scholarly people.

People can argue to and fro but if every human being followed the 10 Commandments not based on their divinity but simply their instruction this would be a much better world.

Personal Best Regards:

[Don Baldwin]

Constantine's mother, at the age of 80 or so, visited Jerusalem for the first time. She was able to walk just so far with her physical limitations, and every time she was getting tired and needed to rest, there was yet another spot where Jesus supposedly did something or other, which she could then sit and admire. A friend who visited told me she toured Paul's mother's house. When I snorted, she said "Oh, they kept good records." Now the United States of America keeps pretty good records, but I defy you to find Paul Revere's mother's house, and we're talking two hundred years versus two thousand years. In other words, tourists have always been pretty good marks. So yes, a book which begins with two incestuous nudists who took dietary advice from a talking snake is not my idea of a foundation for a serious religion.

They don't KNOW where Jesus was born, where he grew up, where he was crucified, where he was buried...NOTHING. Why didn't "God" make sure we'd remember? Why didn't "God" write ANYTHING down? WTF? "God" thought "orally" would be good enough? Like I said before..."God's" plan wasn't planned/executed very well. Maybe OUR "God" was the receiver of affirmative action, a quota...he wasn't REALLY qualified to plan/make a universe and got the slot because of a disability? His race? Her sex?

And WHAT was their "major sin"? Eating from the tree of KNOWLEDGE...? "God" wanted them ignorant to control?

Thank you, Carl, for the link to that video.......goosebumps from beginning to end. And thank you for being a light amongst a lot of darkness on this forum.

No...he's simply been fooled...like a lot of others have too.

After re-read this entire thread I am left with these thoughts.

Men cannot accurately record today's news and its readers all walk away with different interpretations. And yet here we are debating the ancient history, the Bible, etc and yet we know that corrupt men corrupt trying to retain history on their side

And so history provides their version of the story (Spartans-Athenians, Calvary-Indians Protestants-Catholics Confederate-Union Armies)

The ubiquitous questions on every human beings mind are "who made us" what is our purpose" and the like
And for every philosophical question that creates a vacuum someone is there to fill it.

Religion is in my view good. What is bad are those who would distort religion for their selfish purposes.

I did not need anyone to tell me I am spiritual, Its instinctive. i alwyas knew it and felt it

I did not need anyone to tell me to reject homosexuality. It was instinctive and in my view unnatural.

I did not need anyone to point out that people different than me are both good and bad, just like people like me.

I did not need anyone to tell me that some of the teachings by my church didn't fit. and as a side bar was sorry they made the decision to forego the mass in Latin. I was an altar boy and learned the prayers in Latin. what a beautiful language

I viewed the teachings of the Bible more as important lessons in human behaviors and admonitions. I'll leave the divinity issues, etc to more scholarly people.

People can argue to and fro but if every human being followed the 10 Commandments not based on their divinity but simply their instruction this would be a much better world.

Personal Best Regards:

Exactly...there is NO WAY that it was all recorded from oral stories 50+ years later accurately. It's propaganda...made up...to collect a 10% tithe.

Remember...the word is "His-Story". It's not "Factstory".

Yes they are...and they'll gladly accept a 10% tithe for their "answers".

Islam is "good"? For whom? Not me. Not anyone I know. Or...did you mean just Christianity?

Yes...but some "races" have MORE "bad people" than others. Compare blacks and whites...compare how they live, how they act, how they treat others. I'd rather live with whites thank you. I've NEVER seen/heard of a "black villages" or anywhere CLOSELY comparable...have you? If not, HOW can you say they are equal? It's like calling a master carpenter and a ditch digger "equal". One can create works of utility and beauty...one can't. They are hardly equal and shouldn't be considered equal. If you were forced onto a deserted island...which would you take? So, they are NOT "equal"...are they? One has far more value than the other. White people are carpenters...blacks ditch diggers.

Well then...practice relativism...start your OWN sect...that AGREES with YOUR thoughts. You won't be alone...there are over 5,000 Christian sects to choose from...or, as I said, you can always start your own. Because YOU know "God's mind", what he REALLY meant....right? THAT part of the Bible is allegory...not meant to be taken literally?

But people take it literally as God's word. It's not? Is what's in the Bible is just a "suggestion"?

Which ones? The very FIRST commandment is..."I'm the ONLY "God" have NONE but me". Should THAT really be FIRST? Really? Second...is "No images", no "idols"? Third is "don't take "God's" name in vain. Fourth, Keep the "Sabbath" day holy. The top four "commandments" are all about him. Why not START with the others...no murder, no adultery, honor parents...etc? Your "God" seems to be "all about me".

I had hope for Carl until I read all his religious bullsh!t. He's as brainwashed as the rest.

[MDLNB]

Faith does not require proof or evidence.

If I am wrong and you are right, I have lost nothing by believing.

If I am right and you are wrong, YOU have lost your soul and will pay not only for your lack of faith but your denying of the one and only GOD.

I guess that means that I have insurance.

That may seem simple, but I can live with that a lot better than you can live with your arrogance that gives you absolutely NO hope. A socialist that gives the government his faith becomes a communist. All of those man and government based ideologies have been tried and failed, but a system based on deity faith has survived and will survive until man is finally destroyed by his own arrogance. Self proclaimed scholars have always attempted to argue the fallacy of a Bible based faith, but in the end all of them lose. I wonder why it is so important for a few to win an argument to destroy another's faith. Is it because they feel doomed and wish company? Are they just miserable people that wish ill of others? Perhaps there is an evil in the world and the idea that "the devil made me do it" is not so ridiculous, and those naysayers are instruments of that evil?

Think about this; there is evidence of divine design in all of nature, but there is NO evidence that the existence of GOD is a lie. Even the big bang theory requires intelligent design.

Like I said above, my faith costs me nothing and may(WILL) gain me eternity. A lack of faith gains you nothing, even if you are right (and you aren't).

By the way, you argue small points as documented in the Bible attempting to destroy what you believe is faith. My faith does not require the Bible. I use it as a reference to my form of faith. Destroy the Bible and I will still believe. But, I have no fear of anyone destroying the Bible. It's been around for a lot longer than any human alive and it will still be a best seller when you are gone.

[mellincf]

Faith does not require proof or evidence.

If I am wrong and you are right, I have lost nothing by believing.

If I am right and you are wrong, YOU have lost your soul and will pay not only for your lack of faith but your denying of the one and only GOD.

I guess that means that I have insurance.

That may seem simple, but I can live with that a lot better than you can live with your arrogance that gives you absolutely NO hope. A socialist that gives the government his faith becomes a communist. All of those man and government based ideologies have been tried and failed, but a system based on deity faith has survived and will survive until man is finally destroyed by his own arrogance. Self proclaimed scholars have always attempted to argue the fallacy of a Bible based faith, but in the end all of them lose. I wonder why it is so important for a few to win an argument to destroy another's faith. Is it because they feel doomed and wish company? Are they just miserable people that wish ill of others? Perhaps there is an evil in the world and the idea that "the devil made me do it" is not so ridiculous, and those naysayers are instruments of that evil?

Think about this; there is evidence of divine design in all of nature, but there is NO evidence that the existence of GOD is a lie. Even the big bang theory requires intelligent design.

Like I said above, my faith costs me nothing and may(WILL) gain me eternity. A lack of faith gains you nothing, even if you are right (and you aren't).

By the way, you argue small points as documented in the Bible attempting to destroy what you believe is faith. My faith does not require the Bible. I use it as a reference to my form of faith. Destroy the Bible and I will still believe. But, I have no fear of anyone destroying the Bible. It's been around for a lot longer than any human alive and it will still be a best seller when you are gone.
And I applaud you for your faith. It gives comfort to millions. Most of us don't object to a faith of any kind, what we object to is the use faith is sometimes put to...that is, often used to justify wars, to justify fear of the "other", to justify political aims, and to justify taking money from people who cannot afford it. This happens in every faith, I'm sure. Unscrupulous people are everywhere. So a little skepticism is not a bad thing. When "faith" is used to oppress another who is not of the same faith, then that is not serving anyone well.

[Don Baldwin]

Faith does not require proof or evidence.

If I am wrong and you are right, I have lost nothing by believing.

If I am right and you are wrong, YOU have lost your soul and will pay not only for your lack of faith but your denying of the one and only GOD.

I guess that means that I have insurance.

That may seem simple, but I can live with that a lot better than you can live with your arrogance that gives you absolutely NO hope. A socialist that gives the government his faith becomes a communist. All of those man and government based ideologies have been tried and failed, but a system based on deity faith has survived and will survive until man is finally destroyed by his own arrogance. Self proclaimed scholars have always attempted to argue the fallacy of a Bible based faith, but in the end all of them lose. I wonder why it is so important for a few to win an argument to destroy another's faith. Is it because they feel doomed and wish company? Are they just miserable people that wish ill of others? Perhaps there is an evil in the world and the idea that "the devil made me do it" is not so ridiculous, and those naysayers are instruments of that evil?

Think about this; there is evidence of divine design in all of nature, but there is NO evidence that the existence of GOD is a lie. Even the big bang theory requires intelligent design.

Like I said above, my faith costs me nothing and may(WILL) gain me eternity. A lack of faith gains you nothing, even if you are right (and you aren't).

By the way, you argue small points as documented in the Bible attempting to destroy what you believe is faith. My faith does not require the Bible. I use it as a reference to my form of faith. Destroy the Bible and I will still believe. But, I have no fear of anyone destroying the Bible. It's been around for a lot longer than any human alive and it will still be a best seller when you are gone.

You're right...faith requires NO evidence...that's why it's so easy to keep believing even after you've grown enough to understand its falsity. They "program" you as infants when you have no "defense"...you learn to "believe in God" as naturally as you begin to speak and walk...because it's ALL you know/are taught. Are you given a choice at birth? Christian, Muslim, Hindi, Buddhist? No...you become what your parents were. Religion is region based...depending on where you live...generally...determines your religion. It's an "accident of birth" you're a Muslim living in the ME...or an Indian Buddhist.

Sure you've lost something...your sovereignty...YOUR self determination. Did you "live a certain way" because your religion expected it? Then you paid a price. If you haven't "paid a price", then you're religious in name only and YOU are going to hell.

Say's YOU. There are another 5 billion people on the planet who disagree with Christianity. What makes you think you are right and everyone else is wrong? Arrogance?

NO...it means you THINK you have insurance. Which of the relativistic 5,000 sects are you a member of? Are you SURE you picked the right one? Do you obey ALL of God's laws? I doubt it...I doubt you even KNOW all of God's laws...it goes beyond the 10 Commandments.

What "hope"...that the afterlife will be better than here? I make HERE my heaven...I try to make HERE better.

So...THAT'S your "hope"? That man destroys himself through arrogance? You're probably right...but is it something to hope for?

Really? Who told you that? One of your religious leaders? What do you THINK they are going to tell you? The Bible does describe some true historical events...it's the WHY that is full of lies.

Oh...I don't know...maybe to keep you from living under delusion? HOW MANY delusions do you want? Religion, racial equality, gender equality...they're ALL delusions. The government is there to "help you" is another delusion. The medical industry wants to cure you...yet another.

Maybe there is and maybe there isn't "intelligent design". I don't know where it all began...why it all began...and I can live with that. I don't need to believe 5,000 year old myths conjured up by cavemen to explain things. And please explain this: The universe MUST have been created by intelligent design, it's too marvelous and complicated to have "just happened". And yet...you have NO problem believing your "Creator God" was ALWAYS there...or "just happened". It's circular reasoning and it's a dead end. I think it's better to just admit...I don't know...and keep looking for the real answers.

Your faith costs...your freedom...my lack of it gives me freedom.

Destroy the Bible and what is left to believe? Not Christianity. Didn't the NT "destroy" the OT? It's a completely different set of "values" and often contradicts the OT God. It's the ultimate relativism of the Jewish faith. Same with Islam...the same "God", completely different interpretation this one sticking more with the vengeful, punishing God. Would Jesus DESTROY entire cities? Destroy humanity with an all encompassing flood? And WHY a flood? why not leave everything and just make the "wicked" people disappear? God controls the weather, but can't make people disappear? A "rapture" sending them to hell? I mean after the flood, the plants are all gone too...what did everyone eat? Or is it impolite to question someone's "faith"?

[Carl in Tampa]

Rubicon

After re-read this entire thread I am left with these thoughts.

Men cannot accurately record today's news and its readers all walk away with different interpretations. And yet here we are debating the ancient history, the Bible, etc and yet we know that corrupt men corrupt trying to retain history on their side

And so history provides their version of the story (Spartans-Athenians, Calvary-Indians Protestants-Catholics Confederate-Union Armies)

The ubiquitous questions on every human beings mind are "who made us" what is our purpose" and the like
And for every philosophical question that creates a vacuum someone is there to fill it.

Religion is in my view good. What is bad are those who would distort religion for their selfish purposes.

I did not need anyone to tell me I am spiritual, Its instinctive. i alwyas knew it and felt it

I did not need anyone to tell me to reject homosexuality. It was instinctive and in my view unnatural.

I did not need anyone to point out that people different than me are both good and bad, just like people like me.

I did not need anyone to tell me that some of the teachings by my church didn't fit. and as a side bar was sorry they made the decision to forego the mass in Latin. I was an altar boy and learned the prayers in Latin. what a beautiful language

I viewed the teachings of the Bible more as important lessons in human behaviors and admonitions. I'll leave the divinity issues, etc to more scholarly people.

People can argue to and fro but if every human being followed the 10 Commandments not based on their divinity but simply their instruction this would be a much better world.

Personal Best Regards:

I have a couple of brief reflections on what you have concluded. Brevity is not easy for me, but I shall try.

1. Your thoughts on the accuracy of history reminded me of the old saying that "History is written by the victors." In the case of Christianity, Christian history was written by those who endured. They endured a vicious attempt by the Roman Empire to wipe them out, to include destroying records that they existed and by killing their adherents.

But the Romans were unsuccessful, as witnessed by the Roman Catacombs, filled with the remains of Christian dead, and remaining fragments of different books of the Bible, discovered centuries later in Christian monasteries, and of course the Muratorian fragment.

The very existence of Christians, then and now, is proof that Jesus lived, died, and rose to live again. The Apostles, and later Christian martyrs would not have died to further a cause that they knew was false, if they could be spared by simply saying a word of denial of Jesus.

2. You may know that there was a long period of time when the accuracy of accounts in the Bible were doubted because there was no physical "proof." But in the 1930s and later, archaeological digs and discoveries unearthed certain things which were found to be just as described in the Bible.

3. As a Baptist, with no dog in the fight, I think it was a mistake to allow Mass in the local language, abandoning Latin. The reason is simple. First off, it is not difficult to learn the relatively few Latin phrases in the Mass, and their meaning. I did so just because I sometimes went to Mass. In New Orleans it seemed that every politician who got elected to office wanted to hold a special Mass, and I was invited.

The reason I think Latin should have been retained is because in my travels around the world, my (Irish) Catholic companions had no problem going to Mass, and understanding it in Latin, although they didn't know a word in the local language. Having it in Latin emphasized the Global reach of the Catholic Church.

4. It is a shame that so many people who have lost interest in the denomination in which they were raised are reluctant to try a little visit to a local Southern Baptist Church. In the main, the churches contain down-to-earth, friendly people who are a far cry from the stereotypes often depicted by unfriendly critics.

And, if you sit down for a conversation with a Southern Baptist pastor, you will find that the core position of the church is similar to that articulated by Martin Luther so many years ago; in Latin - Sola Scriptura. What Does Sola Scriptura Mean? (http://www.ligonier.org/blog/what-does-sola-scriptura-mean/)

The other position, the one that got Martin Luther in the most hot water, was Sola Fide. Sola fide (Latin: by faith alone), also known as justification by faith alone, is a Christian theological doctrine that distinguishes most Protestant denominations from the Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, and some parts of the Restoration Movement. You are not required to do "works" to achieve Salvation. (No Confession; no Hail Mary; no acts of contrition; etc.)

But............. you also cannot achieve Salvation without Faith in Jesus as the provider of that Salvation. That is key.

Well...........Brevity got lost somewhere along the way.


Carl in Tampa


.

[Abby10]

Faith does not require proof or evidence.

If I am wrong and you are right, I have lost nothing by believing.

If I am right and you are wrong, YOU have lost your soul and will pay not only for your lack of faith but your denying of the one and only GOD.

I guess that means that I have insurance.

That may seem simple, but I can live with that a lot better than you can live with your arrogance that gives you absolutely NO hope. A socialist that gives the government his faith becomes a communist. All of those man and government based ideologies have been tried and failed, but a system based on deity faith has survived and will survive until man is finally destroyed by his own arrogance. Self proclaimed scholars have always attempted to argue the fallacy of a Bible based faith, but in the end all of them lose. I wonder why it is so important for a few to win an argument to destroy another's faith. Is it because they feel doomed and wish company? Are they just miserable people that wish ill of others? Perhaps there is an evil in the world and the idea that "the devil made me do it" is not so ridiculous, and those naysayers are instruments of that evil?

Think about this; there is evidence of divine design in all of nature, but there is NO evidence that the existence of GOD is a lie. Even the big bang theory requires intelligent design.

Like I said above, my faith costs me nothing and may(WILL) gain me eternity. A lack of faith gains you nothing, even if you are right (and you aren't).

By the way, you argue small points as documented in the Bible attempting to destroy what you believe is faith. My faith does not require the Bible. I use it as a reference to my form of faith. Destroy the Bible and I will still believe. But, I have no fear of anyone destroying the Bible. It's been around for a lot longer than any human alive and it will still be a best seller when you are gone.

Great post!

[Don Baldwin]

Great post!

It's the rantings of the brainwashed.

"I believe"...so it's true?

[Abby10]

And I applaud you for your faith. It gives comfort to millions. Most of us don't object to a faith of any kind, what we object to is the use faith is sometimes put to...that is, often used to justify wars, to justify fear of the "other", to justify political aims, and to justify taking money from people who cannot afford it. This happens in every faith, I'm sure. Unscrupulous people are everywhere. So a little skepticism is not a bad thing. When "faith" is used to oppress another who is not of the same faith, then that is not serving anyone well.

You are right on many accounts. That's why many of us do not put our faith so much in a religion per se, as in a relationship. I practiced a religion my whole life but never really "knew" God. It wasn't until I started studying the bible that I realized the difference between religion and having a relationship. Just like a person who calls himself a Christian is not a perfect person, religions created by man will not be perfect either. It is just a means to practice what we believe with other like minded people and to enjoy fellowship and worship God communally.

I'm not sure if this makes sense to you because I find it difficult to explain it myself, but I understand your skepticism. We have all been where you are at one point or another in our lives. It's something you have to come to yourself through seeking, if one desires.

[Carl in Tampa]

Don Baldwin


:swear:
Psalm 14:1


It's the rantings of the brainwashed.

"I believe"...so it's true?

You don't believe...........so it's not true?

I suspect that you find our Faith much more disturbing than we find your disbelief. . . . chilout


Carl in Tampa

[Don Baldwin]

You are right on many accounts. That's why many of us do not put our faith so much in a religion per se, as in a relationship. I practiced a religion my whole life but never really "knew" God. It wasn't until I started studying the bible that I realized the difference between religion and having a relationship. Just like a person who calls himself a Christian is not a perfect person, religions created by man will not be perfect either. It is just a means to practice what we believe with other like minded people and to enjoy fellowship and worship God communally.

I'm not sure if this makes sense to you because I find it difficult to explain it myself, but I understand your skepticism. We have all been where you are at one point or another in our lives. It's something you have to come to yourself through seeking, if one desires.

As you get older and "wiser"...you figure out that the religion you were raised on is just a bunch of bullsh!t...but you can't shake the premise of "God".

Found your own "religion" make it 5,001 different sects with different "interpretations" of a book of fictional stories.

You don't believe...........so it's not true?

I suspect that you find our Faith much more disturbing than we find your disbelief. . . . chilout


Carl in Tampa

Backwards again...

It's not true...so I don't believe.

I find your faith irrational.

What "disturbs" me is the extent of how right Barnum was...there are millions of suckers born every day...especially if you can get to them when they're vulnerable infants. What "disturbs" me is how strong conditioning done on infants is and how long it lasts. What "disturbs" me is that they use these same techniques on our children in school. They frame it in the context "Everybody feels the same way, you should too". It's the way the "news" is presented too.

We are lied to constantly, from every source. It's no wonder the incidence of psychiatric illness...and need for "calming" drugs...and of course...the need for a "God", a "spirit" to guide us.

[Wiotte]

I asked this of Carl before and he didn't answer for whatever reason so here it is again.

If you've never had it, how does a person acquire faith ? What if it isn't gifted to you ? And how would you know if it were gifted or know if it wasn't ?

[Abby10]

I asked this of Carl before and he didn't answer for whatever reason so here it is again.

If you've never had it, how does a person acquire faith ? What if it isn't gifted to you ? And how would you know if it were gifted or know if it wasn't ?

This is such a great set of questions and I'm not sure I'm the most qualified to answer, but I'll give it a shot. It is gifted to anyone who desires it. God doesn't pick and choose, but he allows you to choose - do you want the gift of faith or not? It's a personal choice and you have to make that decision.

The only way I really know how to answer your question is by my own story. As I said, I grew up in the church and followed it quite faithfully when I was young, just like Don B said. But here's where his premise goes wrong, because I apparently wasn't brainwashed. There came a point in my life - in my 20's and 30's - where I felt I didn't need God, and by anyone looking in from the outside, it didn't seem that I did. I was successful in my chosen career, had a husband and family that was healthy and doing well on all accounts, etc. The problem was when I got older, in my 40's, I realized something was missing, like a hole in my heart or a broken chain that was missing a link. Everything else seemed so good but that feeling drove me to begin to seek. I started going to a bible study which at that time was way over my head, so when I sat down to do my lesson I prayed "God, if you're there and you want me to understand this, then you're going to have to help me". Apparently that was the knock on the door that he was waiting for, because from that point on, as they say, my eyes and ears were open to understand. It really transcends our human ability......it is deeply spiritual at that point.

You ask, how would I know whether I have the gift? Because first, what I said above - I began to understand things that before were totally beyond my comprehension. My life changed drastically - how I felt, how I thought, and how I acted. Others noticed too - a sort of calmness, deeper in my thinking, and greater compassion for others. And of course I no longer felt that hole or missing link anymore. I felt like my life was more complete, fuller and richer in every way. Most likely it is not the same for everyone, because as I said it is very personal, but you know when you got it.

Matthew 7:7-8King James Version (KJV)

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened."

It's all in that book, but you have to want it for yourself. Hope this helps to answer some of your questions. By the way, there is a really good nondenominational bible study group called Community Bible Study. There is a women's group in The Villages, but I think there is a men's group also, either in The Villages or Ocala, not sure which. You can look it up online at their website if interested. No previous experience needed to join and usually starts up each year right about now.

[rubicon]

I have a couple of brief reflections on what you have concluded. Brevity is not easy for me, but I shall try.

1. Your thoughts on the accuracy of history reminded me of the old saying that "History is written by the victors." In the case of Christianity, Christian history was written by those who endured. They endured a vicious attempt by the Roman Empire to wipe them out, to include destroying records that they existed and by killing their adherents.

But the Romans were unsuccessful, as witnessed by the Roman Catacombs, filled with the remains of Christian dead, and remaining fragments of different books of the Bible, discovered centuries later in Christian monasteries, and of course the Muratorian fragment.

The very existence of Christians, then and now, is proof that Jesus lived, died, and rose to live again. The Apostles, and later Christian martyrs would not have died to further a cause that they knew was false, if they could be spared by simply saying a word of denial of Jesus.

2. You may know that there was a long period of time when the accuracy of accounts in the Bible were doubted because there was no physical "proof." But in the 1930s and later, archaeological digs and discoveries unearthed certain things which were found to be just as described in the Bible.

3. As a Baptist, with no dog in the fight, I think it was a mistake to allow Mass in the local language, abandoning Latin. The reason is simple. First off, it is not difficult to learn the relatively few Latin phrases in the Mass, and their meaning. I did so just because I sometimes went to Mass. In New Orleans it seemed that every politician who got elected to office wanted to hold a special Mass, and I was invited.

The reason I think Latin should have been retained is because in my travels around the world, my (Irish) Catholic companions had no problem going to Mass, and understanding it in Latin, although they didn't know a word in the local language. Having it in Latin emphasized the Global reach of the Catholic Church.

4. It is a shame that so many people who have lost interest in the denomination in which they were raised are reluctant to try a little visit to a local Southern Baptist Church. In the main, the churches contain down-to-earth, friendly people who are a far cry from the stereotypes often depicted by unfriendly critics.

And, if you sit down for a conversation with a Southern Baptist pastor, you will find that the core position of the church is similar to that articulated by Martin Luther so many years ago; in Latin - Sola Scriptura. What Does Sola Scriptura Mean? (http://www.ligonier.org/blog/what-does-sola-scriptura-mean/)

The other position, the one that got Martin Luther in the most hot water, was Sola Fide. Sola fide (Latin: by faith alone), also known as justification by faith alone, is a Christian theological doctrine that distinguishes most Protestant denominations from the Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, and some parts of the Restoration Movement. You are not required to do "works" to achieve Salvation. (No Confession; no Hail Mary; no acts of contrition; etc.)

But............. you also cannot achieve Salvation without Faith in Jesus as the provider of that Salvation. That is key.

Well...........Brevity got lost somewhere along the way.


Carl in Tampa


.

We are in agreement and may perhaps place a different emphasis on some of the historic and/or philosophical understandings?

My belief comes deep within my natural instincts. I leave the politics of religion to more scholarly people. I do so because scholars seem to spend more time telling people what is not rather than were we all come together on a belief in one God.

People seem to attend a service that fits their preferred choice of expressing faith. Some choose quiet reflection such as the Catholic Church of old and while not perfect it was better for them than its contemporary folk style

There were/are good Pope's and bad Pope's. Just as there were/are good Baptist pastors and bad Baptist pastors. I loved Pope John Paul II but dislike Pope Francis.

I recently saw an independent film about the Queen of Sweden ,Queen Christina born/died 1626-1689, reigned 1632-1654. She had great interests in religion, philosophy, mathematics, alchemy. She attracts many scientist to Stockholm

Before her reign and during her reign Sweden (Lutheran) was at war with nations (Catholic).

Christina rejected Lutheran's teachings, abdicated her throne, converted to Catholicism and went to Rome to serve the Pope. she is buried in the Vatican Grotto

It appears that trigger warnings and microaggressions existed even back then:D

Personal Best Regards:

[Cedwards38]

Religion does more good in promoting the well being of a society, so much so that the Chinese recognized that allowing their citizen the right to practice their religion created calm and stability.

In this nation the left is making every effort to destroy religion because religion views homosexuality as being against God's laws of nature.

Religion, a belief in God a belief in something greater than ourselves propels people to perform selfless acts for the benefit of our society. conversely secularism connotes a preoccupation with one's self, a belief in nothing. secularism is soulless

With religious people homosexuality simply means hate the sin love the sinner

HE is he alpha and omega.

Personal Best Regards:

.......and did He also create homosexuality and homosexuals? If so, was that a mistake by the faultless and perfect deity? If not, then what creates homosexuals? Does He love homosexuals as much as He loves you? Is every spectrum of society between the alpha and omega, including homosexuals? In His Holy Word, does He give you and others like you the right to judge homosexuals? Can homosexuals be Christian brothers and sisters with you? Can homosexuals go to Heaven? Do you judge homosexuals by the content of their character, or by some other standard? Has He shared these standards of your judgemental ism with you personally?

[MDLNB]

.......and did He also create homosexuality and homosexuals? If so, was that a mistake by the faultless and perfect deity? If not, then what creates homosexuals? Does He love homosexuals as much as He loves you? Is every spectrum of society between the alpha and omega, including homosexuals? In His Holy Word, does He give you and others like you the right to judge homosexuals? Can homosexuals be Christian brothers and sisters with you? Can homosexuals go to Heaven? Do you judge homosexuals by the content of their character, or by some other standard? Has He shared these standards of your judgemental ism with you personally?

I have faith in HIS word, and it says he loves all people. If you want to know how he feels about homosexuals, read the Bible. If you don't believe in it, then why bother asking the question? Remember the part where it says God hates the sin but loves the sinner? Paraphrased of course. Whose judging besides the liberals? Just because someone does not condone a practice does not mean they can't tolerate it. There are radicals in any religion.

[Abby10]

It's the rantings of the brainwashed.

"I believe"...so it's true?

It's so much more than that, but there's no way anyone else could convince you. You have to want it for yourself.

[Carl in Tampa]

Wiotte

I asked this of Carl before and he didn't answer for whatever reason so here it is again.

If you've never had it, how does a person acquire faith ? What if it isn't gifted to you ? And how would you know if it were gifted or know if it wasn't ?

We are all very fortunate that I am at the beach, and have spent the day down by the pool getting some sun and fresh air, and visiting with people.

We are fortunate because in my absence Abby10 has given a better response to the question that I ever could have in post #117. :thumbup: . :highfive: .:clap2:

I would have written of Election, Free Will, Faith being a Gift from God, and how these concepts are inter-related. It gets quite complex. Abby10's answer cuts to the how of it rather than writing about it.

I would only add that if a person is genuinely seeking Faith, a good course of action would be to attend some services at an Evangelical church. Evangelical churches are churches that stress the preaching of the gospel of Jesus Christ, personal conversion experiences, Scripture as the sole basis for faith, and active evangelism (the winning of personal commitments to Christ). Most Baptist churches meet this definition. In The Villages I have found Emmanuel Baptist Church to be such a church.

I would make it a point to identify myself as a visitor, get to know some people, and at some point seek a private meeting with the pastor to let him know that I was a "Seeker." And, see where it goes from there.

Carl in Tampa


.

[Abby10]

We are all very fortunate that I am at the beach, and have spent the day down by the pool getting some sun and fresh air, and visiting with people.

We are fortunate because in my absence Abby10 has given a better response to the question that I ever could have in post #117. :thumbup: . :highfive: .:clap2:

I would have written of Election, Free Will, Faith being a Gift from God, and how these concepts are inter-related. It gets quite complex. Abby10's answer cuts to the how of it rather than writing about it.

I would only add that if a person is genuinely seeking Faith, a good course of action would be to attend some services at an Evangelical church. Evangelical churches are churches that stress the preaching of the gospel of Jesus Christ, personal conversion experiences, Scripture as the sole basis for faith, and active evangelism (the winning of personal commitments to Christ). Most Baptist churches meet this definition. In The Villages I have found Emmanuel Baptist Church to be such a church.

I would make it a point to identify myself as a visitor, get to know some people, and at some point seek a private meeting with the pastor to let him know that I was a "Seeker." And, see where it goes from there.

Carl in Tampa


.

Aww, thanks, Carl. I only had housework to catch up on today so it was my pleasure to put that off as long as possible. :D

[Don Baldwin]

I have faith in HIS word, and it says he loves all people. If you want to know how he feels about homosexuals, read the Bible. If you don't believe in it, then why bother asking the question? Remember the part where it says God hates the sin but loves the sinner? Paraphrased of course. Whose judging besides the liberals? Just because someone does not condone a practice does not mean they can't tolerate it. There are radicals in any religion.

"Chapters 18 and 20 of Leviticus form part of the Holiness code and list prohibited forms of intercourse, including the following verses:

"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination." Chapter 18 verse 22

"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them." Chapter 20 verse 13"

"Romans 1:26-27
“For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet."

I don't think God approves...

[wjboyer1]

"Chapters 18 and 20 of Leviticus form part of the Holiness code and list prohibited forms of intercourse, including the following verses:

"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination." Chapter 18 verse 22

"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them." Chapter 20 verse 13"

"Romans 1:26-27
“For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet."

I don't think God approves...

If your God does not approve, then don't do it, but don't tell others that they have to abide by your rules.

[cologal]

"Chapters 18 and 20 of Leviticus form part of the Holiness code and list prohibited forms of intercourse, including the following verses:

"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination." Chapter 18 verse 22

"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them." Chapter 20 verse 13"

"Romans 1:26-27
“For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet."

I don't think God approves...

How are you at following these rules? Or do you just pick and choose the ones that work for you?

Leviticus 11:7

And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you.

Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcass shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you.

Deuteronomy 14:8

And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcass.


COPUFF......OUT WEST IN THE MILE HIGH STATE!

[rubicon]

.......and did He also create homosexuality and homosexuals? If so, was that a mistake by the faultless and perfect deity? If not, then what creates homosexuals? Does He love homosexuals as much as He loves you? Is every spectrum of society between the alpha and omega, including homosexuals? In His Holy Word, does He give you and others like you the right to judge homosexuals? Can homosexuals be Christian brothers and sisters with you? Can homosexuals go to Heaven? Do you judge homosexuals by the content of their character, or by some other standard? Has He shared these standards of your judgemental ism with you personally?

Again He is the alpha and omega . He has provided mankind with free will and it is within those decisions that each of us is defined.

You pose questions about homosexuals and by your tone with pre-conceived notions.

Did God create homosexuality? Well allow me to present one recent finding

The New Atlantis
Journal of Technology & Society
Special Report
Sexuality & Gender
Findings From The Biological
Psychological, Social Sciences
Fall 2016
Lawrence S. Mayer MB MS PhD
Paul R. Mc Hugh, MD

"The understanding sexual orientation as an innate biological fixed property of human beings- the idea that people are born that way is not supported by scientific evidence"

So based on this long and intensive study homosexuality is a choice. And, since God provide man with free will, it is a free choice.

Those who claim people are born that way do so because it creates legitimacy and validation for such a lifestyle and do so with all the political ramifications.

I am of the belief of Jesus teachings and so I do not accept the sin but forgive the sinner. Hate is wrong. I do believe in live and let live.

My objection to this homosexual contingent is that they have become radicalized and have moved from acceptance to encouragement and I do not believe it is morally right to subject young minds to the belief that this is an acceptable/alternative lifestyle.

Personally I am offended over the fact that movies all seem to range from soft porn to hardcore porn. I liked the filters of old it made for better movie making. so now we moved from an overindulge of heterosexual sex to homosexual sex and not for story content but for profit. they use to put pornographers in jail, now they are celebrated .

If one change the channel they will find the same thing.

We need to return to the word of God. We need to return to the church of our choice. we need to pray for guidance. We need to love one another

Personal Best Regards:

[dirtbanker]

I preferred the "old gay". You suspected someone was gay, but they never said they were...
The "new gay" has to tell you they are gay...
yuck!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

[banjobob]

Trump has given validity to evangelical prejudice, but it has been there long before trump slithered into the room.
Words from another Trump hater IGNORE these socialists

[Don Baldwin]

How are you at following these rules? Or do you just pick and choose the ones that work for you?

Leviticus 11:7

And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you.

Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcass shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you.

Deuteronomy 14:8

And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcass.


COPUFF......OUT WEST IN THE MILE HIGH STATE!

You're agreeing with me...99% of "Christians" are relativists who pick and choose what "laws" they'll follow. THAT is why there are 5,000 sects.

Someone asked if God approved of gay behavior...I posted the answer.

I'm a "free person" not encumbered by dogma and silly rules.

Again He is the alpha and omega . He has provided mankind with free will and it is within those decisions that each of us is defined.

You pose questions about homosexuals and by your tone with pre-conceived notions.

Did God create homosexuality? Well allow me to present one recent finding

The New Atlantis
Journal of Technology & Society
Special Report
Sexuality & Gender
Findings From The Biological
Psychological, Social Sciences
Fall 2016
Lawrence S. Mayer MB MS PhD
Paul R. Mc Hugh, MD

"The understanding sexual orientation as an innate biological fixed property of human beings- the idea that people are born that way is not supported by scientific evidence"

So based on this long and intensive study homosexuality is a choice. And, since God provide man with free will, it is a free choice.

Those who claim people are born that way do so because it creates legitimacy and validation for such a lifestyle and do so with all the political ramifications.

I am of the belief of Jesus teachings and so I do not accept the sin but forgive the sinner. Hate is wrong. I do believe in live and let live.

My objection to this homosexual contingent is that they have become radicalized and have moved from acceptance to encouragement and I do not believe it is morally right to subject young minds to the belief that this is an acceptable/alternative lifestyle.

Personally I am offended over the fact that movies all seem to range from soft porn to hardcore porn. I liked the filters of old it made for better movie making. so now we moved from an overindulge of heterosexual sex to homosexual sex and not for story content but for profit. they use to put pornographers in jail, now they are celebrated .

If one change the channel they will find the same thing.

We need to return to the word of God. We need to return to the church of our choice. we need to pray for guidance. We need to love one another

Personal Best Regards:

Where did you find these idiots paper? They certainly ARE born that way...IF they are a TRUE homosexual...and not just horny. Many men. I believe. "become gay" for the sex. Something they couldn't get from women. Horny men with other horny men who can't get a woman. "Gay" for convenience. It's why many "gays" say they're bi-sexual...they'll take anyone who will have them.

Homosexuality is caused during fetal development when the brain is undergoing "sexual specialization". Men's and Women's brains develop differently, hormone releases are what "wire" it as it develops. These hormone releases do not occur properly in a "gay" brain. It's NOT their fault but it's NOT normal and shouldn't be "normalized".

REAL gays ARE born that way...but so are psychopaths, pedophiles, and many others who behavior we find disgusting.

What about all the other CRAP we subject children to? Religion, equality...ALL bullsh!t too.

They used to put lots of people in jail that is now celebrated.

Churches let gays in now... Loving everyone...accepting everyone...is what put us in this f@cked up situation. Loving blacks/Hispanics/gays is bringing America to it's knees.

What we NEED to do is say...enough is enough...we tried being nice and it's destroying us. Losers are losers and they SHOULDN'T be put in charge of anything. We need to go back to "winners" running things...the BEST running things. No more lowered standards or quotas...either you qualify or you don't. No more placing the #15 finisher on the podium as third place because they have black skin...and NO other qualifications...only to fill a quota.

God won't save us...acting/thinking RATIONALLY will.

[mellincf]

If your God does not approve, then don't do it, but don't tell others that they have to abide by your rules. ABSOLUTELY. Cherry pick your Bible all you want, but don't cram it down our throats. When was the last time you wore cotton & polyester, sold a house, or trimmed your beard, which is also "forbidden by God"? The arrogance of claiming to speak for God. We know less about God than an ant knows about nuclear fusion. There are 60 billion stars in the observable universe, and trillions of earth-like planets. Since our star is in a remote corner of the universe, it's possible God placed us there because we are the greediest and most destructive of all the creatures ever created. So claiming to know what God thinks is laughable. http://www.basicknowledge101.com/photos/2015/perception-of-time-rotation-of-galaxy.png

[mellincf]

You're agreeing with me...99% of "Christians" are relativists who pick and choose what "laws" they'll follow. THAT is why there are 5,000 sects.

Someone asked if God approved of gay behavior...I posted the answer.

I'm a "free person" not encumbered by dogma and silly rules.



Where did you find these idiots paper? They certainly ARE born that way...IF they are a TRUE homosexual...and not just horny. Many men. I believe. "become gay" for the sex. Something they couldn't get from women. Horny men with other horny men who can't get a woman. "Gay" for convenience. It's why many "gays" say they're bi-sexual...they'll take anyone who will have them.

Homosexuality is caused during fetal development when the brain is undergoing "sexual specialization". Men's and Women's brains develop differently, hormone releases are what "wire" it as it develops. These hormone releases do not occur properly in a "gay" brain. It's NOT their fault but it's NOT normal and shouldn't be "normalized".

REAL gays ARE born that way...but so are psychopaths, pedophiles, and many others who behavior we find disgusting.

What about all the other CRAP we subject children to? Religion, equality...ALL bullsh!t too.

They used to put lots of people in jail that is now celebrated.

Churches let gays in now... Loving everyone...accepting everyone...is what put us in this f@cked up situation. Loving blacks/Hispanics/gays is bringing America to it's knees.

What we NEED to do is say...enough is enough...we tried being nice and it's destroying us. Losers are losers and they SHOULDN'T be put in charge of anything. We need to go back to "winners" running things...the BEST running things. No more lowered standards or quotas...either you qualify or you don't. No more placing the #15 finisher on the podium as third place because they have black skin...and NO other qualifications...only to fill a quota.

God won't save us...acting/thinking RATIONALLY will. People like you are what's wrong with the USA today. Note I didn't say America, as you did, since Mexico is part of America. Stupidity like yours is what will bring us to our knees, if it continues but thankfully there are fewer and fewer of xenophobics like you.

[Don Baldwin]

ABSOLUTELY. Cherry pick your Bible all you want, but don't cram it down our throats. When was the last time you wore cotton & polyester, sold a house, or trimmed your beard, which is also "forbidden by God"? The arrogance of claiming to speak for God. We know less about God than an ant knows about nuclear fusion. There are 60 billion stars in the observable universe, and trillions of earth-like planets. Since our star is in a remote corner of the universe, it's possible God placed us there because we are the greediest and most destructive of all the creatures ever created. So claiming to know what God thinks is laughable. http://www.basicknowledge101.com/photos/2015/perception-of-time-rotation-of-galaxy.png

Not arguing...just showing that you were conservative...

"How many stars are there in our galaxy?
100 billion stars
In one calculation, the Milky Way has a mass of about 100 billion solar masses, so it is easiest to translate that to 100 billion stars. This accounts for the stars that would be bigger or smaller than our sun, and averages them out. Other mass estimates bring the number up to 400 billion.May 21, 2014"

"Kornreich used a very rough estimate of 10 trillion galaxies in the universe. Multiplying that by the Milky Way's estimated 100 billion stars results in a large number indeed: 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars, or a "1" with 24 zeros after it.May 17, 2017"

That's a LOT of stars...a pretty big waste of space if we're the ONLY planet with life...IF making life is the purpose and it's not just random.

Maybe our universe is a "science lab" and all the "God" students (a STEM major for sure) have to create a self sustaining "terrarium" (planet) to pass the course and move on. Like when you made hydrogen and oxygen in chemistry lab. Part of "Getting your "God" degree".

I have another question for the "believers". Why is it...God did a whole lot of communicating with people way back when...giving them stuff, talking to them, giving them orders...but has been completely silent ever since Jesus over 2,000 years ago. How come God doesn't "do anything" any more? No plagues, no destroyed cities, no burning bushes, nobody becoming salt. I'm just curious if you've thought about that at all. Jesus was SUPPOSED to have returned with his kingdom...even before Paul started his campaign to spread "Christianity". What happened? What's the official word on the delay? Mechanical? Weather?

[dirtbanker]

People like you are what's wrong with the USA today. Note I didn't say America, as you did, since Mexico is part of America. Stupidity like yours is what will bring us to our knees, if it continues but thankfully there are fewer and fewer of xenophobics like you.

Hi Mell in Central Florida - Can you explain how Mexico is part of America?

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[Don Baldwin]

Hi Mell in Central Florida - Can you explain how Mexico is part of America?

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AMERICA...we're in NORTH America...Mexico is in CENTRAL America.

He's lumping us all together because we're on the same continent.

He's forgetting the natives, indians, what MOST Mexicans are...are far removed from white Europeans genetically. You could easily call them a different species too. NOT as far removed as the negros...but differentiated enough to be a different species.

xeno"phobia" is what allows a "people" to survive. Otherwise you end up with a generic mutt. If we continue to breed whites with the other "races" we will lose blonds, redheads, we will lose blue, green, and hazel eyes. And MOST importantly...we will lose that drive, the intelligence, the ambition that only the white race possesses. Asians didn't make western civilization, the America Indians didn't do it. And certainly the negros didn't do it. White people built the world you live in. White people invented the technology you love.

[Taltarzac725]

Pascal, Blaise - Pensees - Section 3 (https://web.archive.org/web/20061014231859/http://www.classicallibrary.org/pascal/pensees/pensees03.htm)

I was reminded of this by one of our posters. :popcorn:

Pascal’s Wager about God | Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy (http://www.iep.utm.edu/pasc-wag/)

[Don Baldwin]

Pascal, Blaise - Pensees - Section 3 (https://web.archive.org/web/20061014231859/http://www.classicallibrary.org/pascal/pensees/pensees03.htm)

I was reminded of this by one of our posters. :popcorn:

WHY do you think people who aren't religious aren't happy? Why do you think people who don't like blacks/Hispanics aren't happy?

Just because YOU weren't "happy" until you passed off responsibility for your life to an imaginary benefactor...doesn't mean everyone who hasn't been "saved" isn't happy.

Are YOU happy living here in the villages with 99% white people? Happier then if you were living on MLK Blvd in Chicago? Then WHY berate me for admitting the reason WHY it's so much better here than there. NO negros.

If you were HONEST with yourself...you'd agree with me. And you'd be MUCH happier!

[Cedwards38]

Religion is based on unquestioning faith. You either developed it in your childhood, or you've accepted it in adulthood. Either way, you have it or you don't. Fine. That's great. But having it doesn't give you the license to judge those who don't, or judge those whose lifestyle and beliefs are different from yours. Practice your religion and be happy.

I love the teachings of Jesus. Love your fellow man. Turn the other cheek. Heal the sick. Feed the hungry. Don't kill, lie, cheat, steal, or covet. And while doing those things love your God. Hey, it's a good plan for us all. Too bad so many who profess to follow these teachings don't actually do so in real life. When it comes to your government, society, community standards, and daily thought you refuse to do them. You choose to follow the Joel Osteens, Jerry Falwell Jrs., and Pat Robertsons rather than the teachings of Christ, or simply decide to follow your religion only when it benefits you and yours. That's not Christianity. It's hypocrisy.

[dirtbanker]

When I don't kill, lie, cheat, steal, or covet it is for ME...not some imaginary god.

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[Don Baldwin]

When I don't kill, lie, cheat, steal, or covet it is for ME...not some imaginary god.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

Some people don't think we're capable of running our own lives...they think just because they CAN'T, nobody can. So they think we ALL need a "God" to direct our behavior. Listening to them talk, you'd think without "God", there would be anarchy. They couldn't be more wrong.

"God", religion, is just another layer of controlling the populous.

[dbussone]

When I don't kill, lie, cheat, steal, or covet it is for ME...not some imaginary god.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk



It is your Judeo Christian background that taught you those ethics.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[dirtbanker]

It is your Judeo Christian background that taught you those ethics.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk ProNo...it was my proud parents and a few good a$$ whippings...[emoji12]

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[Don Baldwin]

It is your Judeo Christian background that taught you those ethics.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

It's being WHITE...that is how WHITE people act. White people have empathy...so much empathy that we've given the ignorant minorities the country...we paid them to breed us out. And we STILL feel sorry for them.

[Carl in Tampa]

How are you at following these rules? Or do you just pick and choose the ones that work for you?

Leviticus 11:7

And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you.

Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcass shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you.

Deuteronomy 14:8

And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcass.


COPUFF......OUT WEST IN THE MILE HIGH STATE!

Wow. No more ribs or pulled pork sandwiches at Sonny's BBQ.

And you missed the one close to my heart that forbids shellfish. No more shrimp cocktail.

But.......... you missed more than that. You missed the sequel in the New Testament.

On the next day, as they were on their way and approaching the city, Peter went up on the housetop about the sixth hour to pray. But he became hungry and was desiring to eat; but while they were making preparations, he fell into a trance; and he saw the sky opened up, and an object like a great sheet coming down, lowered by four corners to the ground, and there were in it all kinds of four-footed animals and crawling creatures of the earth and birds of the air. A voice came to him, “Get up, Peter, kill and eat!” But Peter said, “By no means, Lord, for I have never eaten anything unholy and unclean.” Again a voice came to him a second time, “What God has cleansed, no longer consider unholy.” This happened three times, and immediately the object was taken up into the sky. --- Acts 10:9-16

Note that this was more than a revocation of ancient dietary law. It was instruction to the devout Jew, the Apostle Peter, that the message of salvation through Jesus was not only for the Jew, but also for the Gentiles. Based upon this experience, Peter delivered the Gospel message to the Roman Centurion Cornelius.


Carl in Tampa

.

[MDLNB]

Wow. No more ribs or pulled pork sandwiches at Sonny's BBQ.

And you missed the one close to my heart that forbids shellfish. No more shrimp cocktail.

But.......... you missed more than that. You missed the sequel in the New Testament.

On the next day, as they were on their way and approaching the city, Peter went up on the housetop about the sixth hour to pray. But he became hungry and was desiring to eat; but while they were making preparations, he fell into a trance; and he saw the sky opened up, and an object like a great sheet coming down, lowered by four corners to the ground, and there were in it all kinds of four-footed animals and crawling creatures of the earth and birds of the air. A voice came to him, “Get up, Peter, kill and eat!” But Peter said, “By no means, Lord, for I have never eaten anything unholy and unclean.” Again a voice came to him a second time, “What God has cleansed, no longer consider unholy.” This happened three times, and immediately the object was taken up into the sky. --- Acts 10:9-16

Note that this was more than a revocation of ancient dietary law. It was instruction to the devout Jew, the Apostle Peter, that the message of salvation through Jesus was not only for the Jew, but also for the Gentiles. Based upon this experience, Peter delivered the Gospel message to the Roman Centurion Cornelius.


Carl in Tampa

.

:thumbup:

[Carl in Tampa]

When I don't kill, lie, cheat, steal, or covet it is for ME...not some imaginary god.

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To each his own.................

(Click on picture to enlarge.)

[rubicon]

You just have to come to God by your own accord and indeed it is difficult to expose all your vulnerabilities, biases and lay open your heart. However the rewards are ever-present and ever- lasting

Personal Best Regards:

[mellincf]

Over the last decade, white evangelical Protestants have declined from 23% to 17% of all Americans. To put this into perspective, during this same period, the proportion of religiously unaffiliated Americans has grown from 16% to 24%. Younger adults who find themselves at odds with conservative Christian churches on issues like climate change and lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender rights. As a result, the median age of white evangelical Protestants is now 55, while the median age of religiously unaffiliated Americans is 37. While 26% of seniors (ages 65 and older) are white evangelicals, only 8% of Americans under the age of 30 claim this identity. After decades of equating growth with divine approval, white evangelicals today are finding themselves on the losing side of demographic changes and LGBT rights, one of their founding and flagship issues. White evangelicals have clearly seen Trump’s presidency as a possible way to stave off changes that would constitute the real end of an era where their cultural worldview held sway. White evangelicals have made a desperate end-of-life bargain with Trump (https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2017/09/06/fading-white-evangelicals-made-desperate-end-of-life-bargain-with-trump-robert-jones-column/635115001/)

[rubicon]

Over the last decade, white evangelical Protestants have declined from 23% to 17% of all Americans. To put this into perspective, during this same period, the proportion of religiously unaffiliated Americans has grown from 16% to 24%. Younger adults who find themselves at odds with conservative Christian churches on issues like climate change and lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender rights. As a result, the median age of white evangelical Protestants is now 55, while the median age of religiously unaffiliated Americans is 37. While 26% of seniors (ages 65 and older) are white evangelicals, only 8% of Americans under the age of 30 claim this identity. After decades of equating growth with divine approval, white evangelicals today are finding themselves on the losing side of demographic changes and LGBT rights, one of their founding and flagship issues. White evangelicals have clearly seen Trump’s presidency as a possible way to stave off changes that would constitute the real end of an era where their cultural worldview held sway. White evangelicals have made a desperate end-of-life bargain with Trump (https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2017/09/06/fading-white-evangelicals-made-desperate-end-of-life-bargain-with-trump-robert-jones-column/635115001/)

That is the sort of article one wold expect from USA Today right along side a headline claiming a witch gave birth to twin she-devils.

Here we go again with the same "deplorables" trope.

I prefer the story written by author in WSJ that claimed more Democrats switched their vote for Trump because they did not agree with their party's social/cultural agenda and that more and more Democrats are crossing over the line .

To add credibility to this author's claim the Democrat Party who held a tight line as late as November 2016 on abortion are now telling potential 2018-2020c Democratic candidate that if the hold a pro life position they will still be welcome and supported to run for political office

And recently Nancy Pelosi on behalf of the Democratic Party disavowed Antifa. Why. Antifa told the Democratic Party that they hated them as much as Republicans

I just wonder what it will take for progressives to come to their senses and recognized that their affliction Trump Derangement Hydrometry is illogical and counter-productive both to the nation and to their party

Personal Best Regards:

[Carl in Tampa]

mellincf

Over the last decade, white evangelical Protestants have declined from 23% to 17% of all Americans. To put this into perspective, during this same period, the proportion of religiously unaffiliated Americans has grown from 16% to 24%. Younger adults who find themselves at odds with conservative Christian churches on issues like climate change and lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender rights. As a result, the median age of white evangelical Protestants is now 55, while the median age of religiously unaffiliated Americans is 37. While 26% of seniors (ages 65 and older) are white evangelicals, only 8% of Americans under the age of 30 claim this identity. After decades of equating growth with divine approval, white evangelicals today are finding themselves on the losing side of demographic changes and LGBT rights, one of their founding and flagship issues. White evangelicals have clearly seen Trump’s presidency as a possible way to stave off changes that would constitute the real end of an era where their cultural worldview held sway. White evangelicals have made a desperate end-of-life bargain with Trump (https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2017/09/06/fading-white-evangelicals-made-desperate-end-of-life-bargain-with-trump-robert-jones-column/635115001/)

If statistics mattered, the Believers would have given up back when there were only 12 of them.

The Cathedrals - I’ve Read The Back Of The Book (Live) - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOHnNawUwNc)

[wjboyer1]

yeah, REAL Christians! NOT!

Gay people to blame for Hurricane Harvey, say evangelical Christian leaders (https://www.yahoo.com/news/gay-people-blame-hurricane-harvey-192154845.html)

[autumnspring]

Under Trump, evangelicals show their true racist colors - LA Times (http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-balmer-evangelical-trump-racism-20170823-story,amp.html)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Our country is truly SICK. That illness THAT CANCER, Is being fueled by this CRAP.

The labels-the democrats have them selved come to the realization that even they are tired of the RACIST CHARGE.

It was amusing to see SHARPTON attempt to move to the center and then to move back to being a RACE BAITER-remember Tawana Brawley???????

THE FACTS ARE: Obama a person with NO PROVEN TRACK RECORD was elelcted president with 56% of the vote.

Blacks are 13% of the population and Obama took 98% of the black vote. I am Jewish and though I did not vote for Obama, Jews are 1.5% of the US population and Obama got 86% of the Jewish vote. Yes, that percent is correct. It was a shock to me as well. However, most Jews live in the cities, large population centers with large number of electoral votes so their vote is more important than the actual numbers. HOW ANYONE DOES NOT SEE THE ABOVE A RACIALLY MOTIVATED ESCAPES ME AND ESCAPES REALITY.

FACT with some fuzzy math, to get 56% of the vote with 14-15% of the vote explained above, Obama received roughly 42% of the non-black non-jewish vote.

Obama was voted a unique opportunity in our history to BRING OUR PEOPLE TOGETHER. In stead Obama CHOSE to tear this country MY COUNTRY, OUR COUNTRY apart.

NOW with all of us tired of the race card the new MINDLESS CHANT is Nazi.

THIS IS UNEDUCATED STUPIDITY. Trump is a capitalist.
Under capitalism the state is servant to the citizen.
Under Nazism, the citizen is servant to the state.

OPEN YOUR EYES AND SEE LOOK AT WHAT IS GOING ON AND WHO IS DOING IT. INSTEAD OF THEM VS US THINK ABOUT WHAT WE ALL WHAT AND NEED. THINK ABOUT THE MIND CONTROL BEING FED TO YOU BY OUR LIBERAL CONTROLLED PRESS. DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHO OWNS THE MAJOR SOURCES OF INFORMATION IN THIS COUNTRY?

[autumnspring]

yeah, REAL Christians! NOT!

Gay people to blame for Hurricane Harvey, say evangelical Christian leaders (https://www.yahoo.com/news/gay-people-blame-hurricane-harvey-192154845.html)

REAL CHRISTIANS-you might want to do a bit of reading.

Gays blame Harvey on evangelical Christians-simply INSANITY.
Forgive me but I also wonder about the sanity of many christians.

IRMA-are they going to blame that on Trump? On Obama?
On gays? On god? On the Jews? HOW MUCH MORE CLEAR CAN IT BE THAT THINGS HAVE GOTTEN INSANE.

Oh, the next one already forming is JOSE. Must be the fault of whomever you do not agree with-the Mexicans, Central Americans, Trump and the wall.

HOW FOOLISH PEOPLE ARE.

[Wiotte]

Our country is truly SICK. That illness THAT CANCER, Is being fueled by this CRAP.



The labels-the democrats have them selved come to the realization that even they are tired of the RACIST CHARGE.



It was amusing to see SHARPTON attempt to move to the center and then to move back to being a RACE BAITER-remember Tawana Brawley???????



THE FACTS ARE: Obama a person with NO PROVEN TRACK RECORD was elelcted president with 56% of the vote.



Blacks are 13% of the population and Obama took 98% of the black vote. I am Jewish and though I did not vote for Obama, Jews are 1.5% of the US population and Obama got 86% of the Jewish vote. Yes, that percent is correct. It was a shock to me as well. However, most Jews live in the cities, large population centers with large number of electoral votes so their vote is more important than the actual numbers. HOW ANYONE DOES NOT SEE THE ABOVE A RACIALLY MOTIVATED ESCAPES ME AND ESCAPES REALITY.



FACT with some fuzzy math, to get 56% of the vote with 14-15% of the vote explained above, Obama received roughly 42% of the non-black non-jewish vote.



Obama was voted a unique opportunity in our history to BRING OUR PEOPLE TOGETHER. In stead Obama CHOSE to tear this country MY COUNTRY, OUR COUNTRY apart.



NOW with all of us tired of the race card the new MINDLESS CHANT is Nazi.



THIS IS UNEDUCATED STUPIDITY. Trump is a capitalist.

Under capitalism the state is servant to the citizen.

Under Nazism, the citizen is servant to the state.



OPEN YOUR EYES AND SEE LOOK AT WHAT IS GOING ON AND WHO IS DOING IT. INSTEAD OF THEM VS US THINK ABOUT WHAT WE ALL WHAT AND NEED. THINK ABOUT THE MIND CONTROL BEING FED TO YOU BY OUR LIBERAL CONTROLLED PRESS. DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHO OWNS THE MAJOR SOURCES OF INFORMATION IN THIS COUNTRY?



Tell us how you really feel. This is how I feel...
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170907/365ba77503289caf2de76fcbdfbe14fa.jpg

[wjboyer1]

tell us how you really feel. This is how i feel...
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170907/365ba77503289caf2de76fcbdfbe14fa.jpg

71270

[rubicon]

You're agreeing with me...99% of "Christians" are relativists who pick and choose what "laws" they'll follow. THAT is why there are 5,000 sects.

Someone asked if God approved of gay behavior...I posted the answer.

I'm a "free person" not encumbered by dogma and silly rules.



Where did you find these idiots paper? They certainly ARE born that way...IF they are a TRUE homosexual...and not just horny. Many men. I believe. "become gay" for the sex. Something they couldn't get from women. Horny men with other horny men who can't get a woman. "Gay" for convenience. It's why many "gays" say they're bi-sexual...they'll take anyone who will have them.

Homosexuality is caused during fetal development when the brain is undergoing "sexual specialization". Men's and Women's brains develop differently, hormone releases are what "wire" it as it develops. These hormone releases do not occur properly in a "gay" brain. It's NOT their fault but it's NOT normal and shouldn't be "normalized".

REAL gays ARE born that way...but so are psychopaths, pedophiles, and many others who behavior we find disgusting.

What about all the other CRAP we subject children to? Religion, equality...ALL bullsh!t too.

They used to put lots of people in jail that is now celebrated.

Churches let gays in now... Loving everyone...accepting everyone...is what put us in this f@cked up situation. Loving blacks/Hispanics/gays is bringing America to it's knees.

What we NEED to do is say...enough is enough...we tried being nice and it's destroying us. Losers are losers and they SHOULDN'T be put in charge of anything. We need to go back to "winners" running things...the BEST running things. No more lowered standards or quotas...either you qualify or you don't. No more placing the #15 finisher on the podium as third place because they have black skin...and NO other qualifications...only to fill a quota.

God won't save us...acting/thinking RATIONALLY will.

Other than your opinion what do you offer?

Personal Best Regards:

[rubicon]

I asked this of Carl before and he didn't answer for whatever reason so here it is again.

If you've never had it, how does a person acquire faith ? What if it isn't gifted to you ? And how would you know if it were gifted or know if it wasn't ?

A good neighbor of mine President of an Insurance Company a subsidiary of a French corporation told me an extraordinary story. He made a trip to the bush as a young man and wondered away from his guide. He was met by natives at the point of spears taken to their village and as he approached the village chief walked out of his hut. he motioned my neighbor to enter his hut and to my neighbors surprise the chief's hut was adorned with magazine pictures of Hollywood celebrities. My neighbor was brought back to the same location he was approached. He told me with a smile, that this old chief just wanted him to know that they (natives) were well aware of the outside world.

So to your question the presence of God from the time the Jews spread the word of one God will not escape man. The pivotal issue always comes back to the fact that God gave us free will to chose. And the admonition is to chose wisely.

Personal Best Regards:

[MDLNB]

Liberals are quite juvenile. If a KKK member supports our President, the the president is racist and a white supremacist. If BLM supports Obama or Hillary, it doesn't mean anything.

So, if a Christian (the country's majority religion) says something stupid, then liberals accuse ALL Christians of thinking alike. Of course, if they were Christian, they might understand the faith a bit more, but........

Atheists do not believe in GOD, so why would we trust them to believe in the goodness of America? Why would we even trust them with our national security? There are a lot of Christians in jail. Does that make all Christians criminals?

Democrats, or probably mostly just liberals run amok and shotgun their radical accusations, regardless of thought or logic. If you wish to be convincing, you are better off attempting argue the views and policies, rather than your emotional and petulant crying about someone's character. After the character of such as the Clintons, it's hardly credible to dwell on Trump's exploits from a dozen or more years ago.

[Don Baldwin]

Other than your opinion what do you offer?

Personal Best Regards:

The truth...

What do you offer? More lies?

A good neighbor of mine President of an Insurance Company a subsidiary of a French corporation told me an extraordinary story. He made a trip to the bush as a young man and wondered away from his guide. He was met by natives at the point of spears taken to their village and as he approached the village chief walked out of his hut. he motioned my neighbor to enter his hut and to my neighbors surprise the chief's hut was adorned with magazine pictures of Hollywood celebrities. My neighbor was brought back to the same location he was approached. He told me with a smile, that this old chief just wanted him to know that they (natives) were well aware of the outside world.

So to your question the presence of God from the time the Jews spread the word of one God will not escape man. The pivotal issue always comes back to the fact that God gave us free will to chose. And the admonition is to chose wisely.

Personal Best Regards:

Bullsh!t...sorry, don't believe your "story".

And God punishes you if you don't choose wisely?

You have NO "free will" if "God" is looking over your shoulder the whole time judging and taking notes on everything you do. There's a name for that...it's called passive aggressive. Telling you that you have "free will" and then punishing you for using it.

[Sandtrap328]

The pivotal issue always comes back to the fact that God gave us free will to chose. And the admonition is to chose wisely.

Personal Best Regards:

...and unfortunately, the baskets of deplorables chose to vote for the Trumpanzee.

[Carl in Tampa]

Don Baldwin


:swear:
Psalm 14:1





I bring you some comfort.

Atheists Don't Have No Songs | Steve Martin and the Steep Canyon Rangers feat. Edie Brickell - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmwAD7nHqaY)

[Don Baldwin]

I bring you some comfort.

Atheists Don't Have No Songs | Steve Martin and the Steep Canyon Rangers feat. Edie Brickell - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmwAD7nHqaY)

Agnostic...get it right...I don't know.

Well...I DO know it ain't your God of Abraham.

We could be the product of somethings doctoral degree...make a self sustaining living planet.

I'm only "atheistic" towards YOUR "God".

Atheists made rock and roll. We sure do have songs.

Steve Martin is a comedian...not someone to look for for religious teachings. It wasn't even that funny.

[MDLNB]

...and unfortunately, the baskets of deplorables chose to vote for the Trumpanzee.

Yes, and some of the rest of us voted for him also. So, what's your point? I guess you voted for Crooked, Felon Hillary? Yes, yes, I know....."well, he's just a, a, a, WINNER!" And Killary is a loser, just waiting to be indicted, tried and convicted and locked away. I can hardly wait to see the day that at least one of the Clintons receive the justice they deserve. Thieves and liars, as well as traitors for money.

[rubicon]

The truth...

What do you offer? More lies?



Bullsh!t...sorry, don't believe your "story".

And God punishes you if you don't choose wisely?

You have NO "free will" if "God" is looking over your shoulder the whole time judging and taking notes on everything you do. There's a name for that...it's called passive aggressive. Telling you that you have "free will" and then punishing you for using it.

I have a brother and his favorite game was to intentionally take the opposite position aggressively argue it and then laugh. maybe that's you too. Is that you big brother on the other end of this conversation:D

As to the story my neighbor related. its true. He met his wife on a flight many years ago. At the time she was a translator working at the UN. Beside what, the truth of the story isn't the pivotal point. the point of the story is men cannot escape the reality of God.

you would be wiser to heed Jesus's admonition. "to thy ownself be true". You are in my prayers

Personal Best Regards:

[MDLNB]

I have a brother and his favorite game was to intentionally take the opposite position aggressively argue it and then laugh. maybe that's you too. Is that you big brother on the other end of this conversation:D

As to the story my neighbor related. its true. He met his wife on a flight many years ago. At the time she was a translator working at the UN. Beside what, the truth of the story isn't the pivotal point. the point of the story is men cannot escape the reality of God.

you would be wiser to heed Jesus's admonition. "to thy ownself be true". You are in my prayers

Personal Best Regards:

Good comment...:thumbup:

[wjboyer1]

And now here’s the evangelicals blaming hurricanes on the gays – DeadState (http://deadstate.org/and-now-heres-the-evangelicals-blaming-hurricanes-on-the-gays/)

Jim Bakker: Hurricane Is God'''s '''Judgment''' So Hurry Up and Buy My Doomsday Food (https://www.yahoo.com/news/jim-bakker-hurricane-god-apos-085201948.html)

[rubicon]

And now here’s the evangelicals blaming hurricanes on the gays – DeadState (http://deadstate.org/and-now-heres-the-evangelicals-blaming-hurricanes-on-the-gays/)

Jim Bakker: Hurricane Is God'''s '''Judgment''' So Hurry Up and Buy My Doomsday Food (https://www.yahoo.com/news/jim-bakker-hurricane-god-apos-085201948.html)

Thank you for pointing this out. From the beginning of time we have had, and had been warned about false prophets.

True believers in God understand that some preach hate and misinformation for personal and self-interests . And these same believers understand that false prophets fall from grace quite quickly.

While I accept Pope Francis as the head of my church and admire his humility, I reject some of what Pope Francis teaches. As a Catholic I leaned toward the Protestant Ethic , and indeed the Protestant Ethic had its hand in making this the greatest nation on earth.

Don't let false prophets prevent you from receiving God's good graces.

Personal Best Regards:

[ColdNoMore]

Thank you for pointing this out. From the beginning of time we have had, and had been warned about false prophets.

True believers in God understand that some preach hate and misinformation for personal and self-interests . And these same believers understand that false prophets fall from grace quite quickly.

While I accept Pope Francis as the head of my church and admire his humility, I reject some of what Pope Francis teaches. As a Catholic I leaned toward the Protestant Ethic , and indeed the Protestant Ethic had its hand in making this the greatest nation on earth.

Don't let false prophets prevent you from receiving God's good graces.

Personal Best Regards:

Yet you are a Trump Cultist, who excuses every single disgusting thing that he does and every lie that he spews...that is contrary to your supposed beliefs? :oops:

You worship a bigot, liar and basic utter scumbag...but you want us to believe you're a Christian?

You're nothing but a fake and if there is any decency deep down...your stomach must be roiling.

I doubt however, that you have any decency...as you've yet to show any.

You're a massive fake...but you just can't bring yourself to admit it. :ohdear:



Deepest Sincere Wishes: :wave:

[Abby10]

Thank you for pointing this out. From the beginning of time we have had, and had been warned about false prophets.

True believers in God understand that some preach hate and misinformation for personal and self-interests . And these same believers understand that false prophets fall from grace quite quickly.

While I accept Pope Francis as the head of my church and admire his humility, I reject some of what Pope Francis teaches. As a Catholic I leaned toward the Protestant Ethic , and indeed the Protestant Ethic had its hand in making this the greatest nation on earth.

Don't let false prophets prevent you from receiving God's good graces.

Personal Best Regards:

:thumbup: to your statements regarding false prophets. What many who are not of the faith may not realize is that those of us who are, are just as disgusted if not more so by the actions of many of these false prophets.

[Taltarzac725]

:thumbup: to your statements regarding false prophets. What many who are not of the faith may not realize is that those of us who are, are just as disgusted if not more so by the actions of many of these false prophets.

That's true. Donald Trump seems about the most irreligious President we have ever had. It just seems like a prop for him.

He has done good work for the people of Texas pushed out of their homes by Harvey and is doing everything he can for those affected by Irma.

[Don Baldwin]

That's true. Donald Trump seems about the most irreligious President we have ever had. It just seems like a prop for him.

He has done good work for the people of Texas pushed out of their homes by Harvey and is doing everything he can for those affected by Irma.

It's a "prop" for a LOT of people who use religion for their advantage.