Children Living in TV

[LittleDog]

My son asked me who decides and on what authority are children prohibited from living in TV for more than 30 days. I couldn't answer that question but figured someone here would know. I wonder if that prohibition is legal.

John

[Chatbrat]

Deed restrictions-you agreed to it when you bought a house--its a legal contract

[Topspinmo]

As long as they are over 18 no problem. There are no children police, unless you neighbor counting the days and reports it who going To know? IMO pretty sure that rule broken all the time. Been some traffic accidents with mother drug addicts/drunk arrest living in the villages with their parents with child. Couple years ago there was post about school bus stopping on the historic side. There are three villages that alow children, but from what I read and understand mostly employee's with no card to use the ammenties.

Notice I said children over 18. Some have children well into there 30s living at home

[spring_chicken]

Not only is it legal, it is required by the federal mandate to be classified as a retirement community.

[rubicon]

As long as they are over 19 no problem. There are no children police, unless you neighbor counting the days and reports it who going To know? IMO pretty sure that rule broken all the time. Been some traffic accidents with mother drug addicts/drunk arrest living in the villages with their parents with child. Couple years ago there was post about school bus stopping on the historic side. There are three villages that alow children, but from what I read and understand mostly employee's with no card to use the ammenties.

As time passes deed restrictions, et al will suffer progressive infractions because resident will not know or care . The District is already showing a reluctance to police deed restrictions shifting responsibility to residents.

[Trayderjoe]

As time passes deed restrictions, et al will suffer progressive infractions because resident will not know or care . The District is already showing a reluctance to police deed restrictions shifting responsibility to residents.

:agree:

[Polar Bear]

As time passes deed restrictions, et al will suffer progressive infractions because resident will not know or care . The District is already showing a reluctance to police deed restrictions shifting responsibility to residents.
The optimism never stops.

[graciegirl]

The optimism never stops.

Lordy yes.

It is a rule. I like rules. Rules keep things all nice and tidy. I can't see the residents "not knowing or caring". I moved here because I like deed restrictions. I moved to an area that is focused on SENIORS. I love children. I have lived with them and enjoyed them. Now I want a place geared to my peers.

[Jayhawk]

Lordy yes.

It is a rule. I like rules. Rules keep things all nice and tidy. I can't see the residents "not knowing or caring". I moved here because I like deed restrictions. I moved to an area that is focused on SENIORS. I love children. I have lived with them and enjoyed them. Now I want a place geared to my peers.

Agree 1000%.

[dirtbanker]

As long as they are over 18 no problem. There are no children police, unless you neighbor counting the days and reports it who going To know? IMO pretty sure that rule broken all the time. Been some traffic accidents with mother drug addicts/drunk arrest living in the villages with their parents with child. Couple years ago there was post about school bus stopping on the historic side. There are three villages that alow children, but from what I read and understand mostly employee's with no card to use the ammenties.

Notice I said children over 18. Some have children well into there 30s living at home

The bus stop is still active. It is just out side the Jeffery Drive gate at Griffn Avenue...Ride by at 8am and see the kids arrive by golf cart.

The historic district is not deemed a "family friendly village". I am not sure why it is like a free for all over there. Golf cart graveyards, pitt bulls, and tattoos.

Teenage kids skateboarding in the Paradise Rec Center parking lot at 11PM on a school night wearing dark hoodies...Great parents!

Won't be long and you will meet someone that says they were "born and raised here in the villages".

I believe I saw a rezoning meeting scheduled in the newspaper, to change the zoning back to "mobile home" on 8 of the lots they had removed mobile homes from. I guess the developer has admitted defeat in trying to clean the area up.

[dirtbanker]

The District is already showing a reluctance to police deed restrictions shifting responsibility to residents.

Take the bridge down, problem solved!

[Waverunner]

I don't have any first hand knowledge on the bus stop situation, but I am a grandparent, and have a grandchild nearby. There is a possibility that the grandparent is providing before school and after school care for working parents, and that the children are not living (i.e. sleeping overnight) permanently in The Villages. I could especially see this for parents bringing their kids into the Charter School system and needing before or after school care.

I see no evidence of kids living in TV, so I am not jumping to conclusions here.

[blueash]

And Back to answering the OP's question, which has been hinted at.

HERE (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_for_Older_Persons_Act) is the Wikipedia page explaining the Federal Law on age restricted communities

And HERE (https://www.55places.com/blog/yes-age-restricted-communities-are-legal) is a simplified presentation of the same information.

So yes, there are reasons for the way the regulations were written. This 1995 amendment to the original law removed a requirement for having "significant facilities and services", in other words made it easier to qualify as senior housing and eliminating a term that the government was struggling to define and caused confusion.

Very interesting read HERE (https://www.congress.gov/congressional-report/104th-congress/senate-report/172/1) of the legislative history and intent which is part of the Congressional documentation

and for those who prefer to see the link before you click
S. Rept. 104-172 - HOUSING FOR OLDER PERSONS ACT OF 1995 | Congress.gov | Library of Congress (https://www.congress.gov/congressional-report/104th-congress/senate-report/172/1)

When the Fair Housing Law began in 1968 it prohibited discrimination in housing based on race, color, religion or national origin. In 1974 it was amended to also prohibit discrimination based on sex. In 1988 it was amended to prohibit discrimination based on "family status" which meant the presence of children [and pregnancy]. This suddenly made senior communities illegal. Thus an exception was made to allow discrimination if the community was a senior community. There were 3 kinds of communities given exemptions to this prohibition.
1. Those operated by the State or Federal Gov't as senior facilities
2. Those that only allowed persons 62+ years old, no exceptions
3. Those that would keep the ratio of those units occupied by at least one person age 55+ at 80% or better AND to qualify it could not just say "We don't want kids" There had to be more than animus against children, there had to be those facilities and services which were geared toward seniors.

It was left to HUD to develop regulations for determining what qualified as enough services to get by under this exemption. HUD eventually did so but there were so many lawsuits challenging it that Congress essentially threw up their hands.

The requirement was intended to ensure that housing communities claiming this exemption were indeed legitimate retirement communities designed to meet the specific needs of senior citizens not just communities of seniors united by their preference to not live around children. By eliminating such a requirement, this bill may have the unintended effect of increasing discrimination against families with children.

HUD had developed a checklist:

Under the new regulations, which went into effect on September 18 of this year, a housing facility can `self-certify'' that it falls under the Fair Housing Act exemption-- by simply filling out a straight forward, easy-to-understand checklist of facilities and services designed for older folks. This checklist contains a "menu'' of some 114 facilities and services in eleven categories; if a facility provides 10 among them--like wheelchair accessibility, communal recreational facilities, periodic vision or hearing tests, or fellowship meetings--it qualifies as senior housing, and may exclude families. If the facility's status is challenged, it need only show that the certification was accurate at the time of the alleged violation

So now there are 3 types which qualify for the exemption to the fair housing law regarding age discrimination
1. Those run by the Federal or State governments
2. Those which only allow 62+
3. Those which keep at least 80% of units having one person age 55+

[Jayhawk]

If everyone followed the rules WE ALL AGREED TO, there would not be a problem. Too many people believe they are exempt. YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED !!!!!!!!!!!!


:boom:

[graciegirl]

If everyone followed the rules WE ALL AGREED TO, there would not be a problem. Too many people believe they are exempt. YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED !!!!!!!!!!!!


:boom:

What Jayhawk said. I don't agree with Dirtbanker. It is not true that there was a meeting about zoning aiming to change it "back to mobile home".

Sometimes TOTV posts sound like posts on Political. Untrue and inflammatory, just for the sake of stirring up trouble. As if we don't have enough with a major hurricane threatening us.

[dirtbanker]

What Jayhawk said. I don't agree with Dirtbanker. It is not true that there was a meeting about zoning aiming to change it "back to mobile home".

Sometimes TOTV posts sound like posts on Political. Untrue and inflammatory, just for the sake of stirring up trouble. As if we don't have enough with a major hurricane threatening us.Gracie, it was a public notice in last week's paper. You have inferred you know more about the subject than I do, but offer no explaination of what the rezoning is about. So unless I made a misread (which I highly doubt) I am correct...If you got a relationship with the developer, ask them what the zoning notice on the 8 now vacant lots was about.

As I said; golf cart graveyards, pit bulls, tattoos and kids at bus stop just outside the gate...just ride thru there!

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[Bogie Shooter]

I have seen tattoos and pit bulls in other villages, so what?
Please explain........

[dirtbanker]

I have seen tattoos and pit bulls in other villages, so what?
Please explain........Really? What village have you seen toothless tattooed people and pit bulls in? Have you seen golf cart graveyards and kids at bus stops at that village too??

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[fred53]

Being facetious means trying be funny or humorous. I was not being facetious. Sarcastic maybe.

Simple. I have no reason to believe otherwise.

"facetious |fəˈsēSHəs|
adjective
treating serious issues with deliberately inappropriate humor; flippant."

the key is "inappropriate humor". Which of course it was.

[skip0358]

Just because there is a bus stop DOESN'T MEAN the kids live in TV. Last time this post was active I rode up there and saw Golf Carts coming from the Opposite direction. Also as was stated maybe the kids parents drop them off at grandma's house in the AM so she can go to work.

[manaboutown]

I hope no one is running an unofficial daycare in The Villages which is of course a senior community.

[dirtbanker]

Just because there is a bus stop DOESN'T MEAN the kids live in TV. Last time this post was active I rode up there and saw Golf Carts coming from the Opposite direction. Also as was stated maybe the kids parents drop them off at grandma's house in the AM so she can go to work.

So the golf carts were coming from rolling acres road? Is that part of a golf cart community or can a person drive a golf cart anywhere in Florida?

Oh grandma retired here from leesburg...The kid is supposed to have a guest pass to be in the villages...how do you get a guest pass for 9 months out of the year?

Maybe the daughter drives her golf cart from Leesburg to the villages to drop the kid at bus stop, on her way to work in Ocala...

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[justjim]

Maybe they are going to put 8 new manufacture double wides on those 8 lots. Wouldn't that still be better than the older homes that were there? Just a thought.... I do believe the Developer is committed to making improvements to the Historical side of TV where they are needed. I have already seen lots of new homes there.

Children living in TV. I haven't seen any in my neighborhood and I'm fairly observant. We have friends on the historical side and they have not said anything about children under 18 living in their neighborhood. Given the size of TV there could be some children living here but I don't believe it's an overwhelming issue.

[Polar Bear]

"facetious |fəˈsēSHəs|
adjective
treating serious issues with deliberately inappropriate humor; flippant."

the key is "inappropriate humor". Which of course it was.
"...of course it was"? I make the statement and you're telling me what I intended? Of course you're wrong.

I agree with your definition entirely. And that's exactly why it doesn't apply. It was in no way an attempt at humor.

It was a sarcastic statement regarding what imo is a sad reality...not funny all.

[Barefoot]

I don't have any first hand knowledge on the bus stop situation, but I am a grandparent, and have a grandchild nearby. There is a possibility that the grandparent is providing before school and after school care for working parents, and that the children are not living (i.e. sleeping overnight) permanently in The Villages. I could especially see this for parents bringing their kids into the Charter School system and needing before or after school care.
I see no evidence of kids living in TV, so I am not jumping to conclusions here.
Waverunner, good comment, that's a very possible situation.

[Waverunner]

For everyone's information, especially dirtbanker. I have an annual Villages guest pass for my grandchild. The original term was twelve months and it is renewable for twelve months thereafter by updating the information. As long as he lives in Lake, Marion, or Sumter counties, this is my privilege. It is in the Guest Pass rules.

[skip0358]

So the golf carts were coming from rolling acres road? Is that part of a golf cart community or can a person drive a golf cart anywhere in Florida?

Oh grandma retired here from leesburg...The kid is supposed to have a guest pass to be in the villages...how do you get a guest pass for 9 months out of the year?

Maybe the daughter drives her golf cart from Leesburg to the villages to drop the kid at bus stop, on her way to work in Ocala...

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If they're at a Bus stop they're not going to the Charter School as you have to drive your child to the Charter School, Grand Children & your Children are allowed annual passes if they live in the 3 counties that TV is in, read the guest pass rules. As for where they're coming from I didn't follow them. As for Golf carts driving here from outside I see them coming from Wildwood in the AM it's only illegal IF you get caught. IF there are children living here without permission I would imagine a neighbor would drop a dime on them for sure.

[graciegirl]

So the golf carts were coming from rolling acres road? Is that part of a golf cart community or can a person drive a golf cart anywhere in Florida?

Oh grandma retired here from leesburg...The kid is supposed to have a guest pass to be in the villages...how do you get a guest pass for 9 months out of the year?

Maybe the daughter drives her golf cart from Leesburg to the villages to drop the kid at bus stop, on her way to work in Ocala...

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We are all facing imminent disaster and you want to argue about this? You want to be negative NOW?

I doubt that if there are kids living here that there are many. If any.

Peace. Chill. Stop. Breathe. Pray. DO NOT SAY ANYTHING MEAN BACK.

[Polar Bear]

Just reinforcing what previous posters have said about the annual guest pass. It's totally legal and defined by the rules.

And also reinforcing what gg said. We have much more important issues to deal with right now.

Be safe all.

[dirtbanker]

I have 2 homes in the Villages. Both closings; it was stated that nobody 18 or under could reside in the house...this 12 month guest pass would provide for the direct opposite. I will have to inquire about this with the closing office? If true they never provided me with that info to me, in fact they misrepresented the restrictions.

Heck, I could be renting put rooms to kids! I hope I can achieve a financial recourse for the loss of revenues...

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[skip0358]

That's not what it says. They get a pass to VISIT that's good for 12 months before renewing. Doesn't allow anyone under the age of 19 to LIVE here. Read the guest pass it's online. This is nothing new has been since we moved here in 2009 and before you ask nobody under 19 lives with me they only visit when we want.

[dirtbanker]

That's not what it says. They get a pass to VISIT that's good for 12 months before renewing. Doesn't allow anyone under the age of 19 to LIVE here. Read the guest pass it's online. This is nothing new has been since we moved here in 2009 and before you ask nobody under 19 lives with me they only visit when we want.Please define the difference between guest and a person living in TV.

My guests sleep, eat, drink, and enjoy the amenities for a week or so.

I would hesitate to call someone that did those things for 12 month in a year...a guest.

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[Barefoot]

That's not what it says. They get a pass to VISIT that's good for 12 months before renewing. Doesn't allow anyone under the age of 19 to LIVE here.

Please define the difference between guest and a person living in TV. My guests sleep, eat, drink, and enjoy the amenities for a week or so. I would hesitate to call someone that did those things for 12 month in a year...a guest.
If your concern is that children under the age of 19 live in TV, because a child gets a guest pass doesn't mean that child can live in TV.

[Trish Crocker]

Please define the difference between guest and a person living in TV.

My guests sleep, eat, drink, and enjoy the amenities for a week or so.

I would hesitate to call someone that did those things for 12 month in a year...a guest.

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My daughter moved here last October with my 4 year old grandson. She is working, has him in preschool but if he has a day off or is sick I watch him at my house. If, while here I want to take him to a pool he is able to go because of a yearly guest pass. He does not live here, nor will he but as a grandparent I want to be able to take him with me. Why would anyone have a problem with that????

[asianthree]

Please define the difference between guest and a person living in TV.

My guests sleep, eat, drink, and enjoy the amenities for a week or so.

I would hesitate to call someone that did those things for 12 month in a year...a guest.

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A guest is someone who is not a permanent resident. They do not reside in the household.

[Topspinmo]

My daughter moved here last October with my 4 year old grandson. She is working, has him in preschool but if he has a day off or is sick I watch him at my house. If, while here I want to take him to a pool he is able to go because of a yearly guest pass. He does not live here, nor will he but as a grandparent I want to be able to take him with me. Why would anyone have a problem with that????


I don't think anybody has problem with family members coming to your home any time they or you want. IMO the problem maybe the 12 month guess pass revolving door to the facilities normally available for one or two in household. IMO the 12 month pass should come with monthly charge due to family members utilizing the facilities any time they want without amenities fee or your presence.

I also think most (including me) don't know the rules to what facilities guess can use. Good example would be so called free golf which really would be free for them. I know golf not as popular now as it was in the late 90s. But, it's the big draw and some expect to play all day long and when they can't get tee time they feel cheated during peak season.

I also think the amenities fee should be based on two members. More than two legally in household then the charge should be more. But, that's me. Other I sure will disagree, especially single people that feel they are paying double.

[dirtbanker]

If your concern is that children under the age of 19 live in TV, because a child gets a guest pass doesn't mean that child can live in TV.Again I will ask you to explain the difference between living / residing and a guest for 12 months that can eat, sleep, and use the amenities?

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[dirtbanker]

A guest is someone who is not a permanent resident. They do not reside in the household.Oh so a 12 month guest pass that can be renewed is different than someone residing in a home? The guest can eat, sleep, use all amenities, and evidently attend the local school...what does the person that resides here get that the guest does not? Of course, the person that resides here gets to pay for the amenities...I wonder why they did not just say (at the closing) that nobody 18 or under could pay amenity fees...

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[dirtbanker]

I don't think anybody has problem with family members coming to your home any time they or you want. IMO the problem maybe the 12 month guess pass revolving door to the facilities normally available for one or two in household. IMO the 12 month pass should come with monthly charge due to family members utilizing the facilities any time they want without amenities fee or your presence.

I also think most (including me) don't know the rules to what facilities guess can use. Good example would be so called free golf which really would be free for them. I know golf not as popular now as it was in the late 90s. But, it's the big draw and some expect to play all day long and when they can't get tee time they feel cheated during peak season.

I also think the amenities fee should be based on two members. More than two legally in household then the charge should be more. But, that's me. Other I sure will disagree, especially single people that feel they are paying double.I agree with most of your post, except I believe some time limit was represented to me at the closing on how long a person 18 and under can visit. Possibly there are exceptions to the historic side as that is the only area I have seen school bus stops outside the village gate?

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[skip0358]

Oh so a 12 month guest pass that can be renewed is different than someone residing in a home? The guest can eat, sleep, use all amenities, and evidently attend the local school...what does the person that resides here get that the guest does not? Of course, the person that resides here gets to pay for the amenities...I wonder why they did not just say (at the closing) that nobody 18 or under could pay amenity fees...

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A guest is just that.the annual pass does not allow the guest to live with you. As for using the facilities only with you the home owner, as for the school only if their parent works for one of buissnesses in TV. They don't live here period.if they golf only with the sponsor just like the day pass. There is no difference except you don't have to run to the rec center every time they're coming here. Do you honestly think EVERY GUEST who comes here has a pass? They have No special rights or privileges and are allowed no place your guest isn't allowed.

[dirtbanker]

A guest is just that.the annual pass does not allow the guest to live with you. As for using the facilities only with you the home owner, as for the school only if their parent works for one of buissnesses in TV. They don't live here period.if they golf only with the sponsor just like the day pass. There is no difference except you don't have to run to the rec center every time they're coming here. Do you honestly think EVERY GUEST who comes here has a pass? They have No special rights or privileges and are allowed no place your guest isn't allowed.

Hey Skip - if the person with a 12 month guest pass is eating, sleeping, and using the amenities here for 12 months out of the year...how are they not living here?

The historic district is not a family village for people that work in the villages, and the charter school does not have school busses nor do they have bus stop outside the gate on Giffin ave. There are children living in the historic district, thus the need for a Lady Lake school district bus stop.

Spring Arbor and Oak Meadows are the closest family villages to the historic district, but again the charter school does not have busses...

News flash, guests can use the amenities without the home owner! Many renters (people over the age of 18 btw) only need the FREE guest pass, as opposed to the TRID.

What I do think is EVERY guest is supposed to have a guest pass in order to use the amenities and people 18 and under are not supposed to be living in the development...a 12 month guest pass for a person age 18 or under would be a direct conflict to what was represented to me at my closings.



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[Bogie Shooter]

I don't think anybody has problem with family members coming to your home any time they or you want. IMO the problem maybe the 12 month guess pass revolving door to the facilities normally available for one or two in household. IMO the 12 month pass should come with monthly charge due to family members utilizing the facilities any time they want without amenities fee or your presence.

I also think most (including me) don't know the rules to what facilities guess can use. Good example would be so called free golf which really would be free for them. I know golf not as popular now as it was in the late 90s. But, it's the big draw and some expect to play all day long and when they can't get tee time they feel cheated during peak season.

I also think the amenities fee should be based on two members. More than two legally in household then the charge should be more. But, that's me. Other I sure will disagree, especially single people that feel they are paying double.

Rules on facilities......
Go to Village Community Development Districts (http://www.districtgov.org) and click on resident ID information.

[skip0358]

Hey Skip - if the person with a 12 month guest pass is eating, sleeping, and using the amenities here for 12 months out of the year...how are they not living here?

The historic district is not a family village for people that work in the villages, and the charter school does not have school busses nor do they have bus stop outside the gate on Giffin ave. There are children living in the historic district, thus the need for a Lady Lake school district bus stop.

Spring Arbor and Oak Meadows are the closest family villages to the historic district, but again the charter school does not have busses...

News flash, guests can use the amenities without the home owner! Many renters (people over the age of 18 btw) only need the FREE guest pass, as opposed to the TRID.

What I do think is EVERY guest is supposed to have a guest pass in order to use the amenities and people 18 and under are not supposed to be living in the development...a 12 month guest pass for a person age 18 or under would be a direct conflict to what was represented to me at my closings.



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Well here's a flash read the rules your assumption is not correct. Also NO CHILD under 19 can live here and for no longer then a 30 day hitch. Guests are not supposed to have free unsupervised roam of the amenities the sponsor is supposed to be with them period regardless of age.
These are the District rules. I for one do follow them period.

[dirtbanker]

Well here's a flash read the rules your assumption is not correct. Also NO CHILD under 19 can live here and for no longer then a 30 day hitch. Guests are not supposed to have free unsupervised roam of the amenities the sponsor is supposed to be with them period regardless of age.
These are the District rules. I for one do follow them period.Well if that were true how is the one poster getting a 12 month guest pass for her grandson?

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[dirtbanker]

18 and under is different than under 19???

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[Trish Crocker]

From what I understand, a 12 month pass is for a CHILD. They are not allowed to stay here for more than 30 days a year. The pass is strictly for circumstances like my grandchild. He lives near here, does not live in the Villages, he does not golf (but guests do have to pay a fee when they golf). Children are not utilizing anything except maybe family pools and possibly bocce or shuffle board. I can't understand what some people are worried about????? With all of the activities going on here one would think there is more to think about than a child visiting. As for the amenity fee...OMG!! Are people actually complaining about that?? Have you LOOKED and the landscaping around here, the entertainment, the FREE clubs and activities, the pest control, the crew that rides around our streets at night to make sure we are safe, not to mention the medical facilities, police and firemen, stores, restaurants, use of the recreation centers (free) Try getting that anywhere else in the US for the amount we are paying. Some people absolutely amaze me.

[skip0358]

From what I understand, a 12 month pass is for a CHILD. They are not allowed to stay here for more than 30 days a year. The pass is strictly for circumstances like my grandchild. He lives near here, does not live in the Villages, he does not golf (but guests do have to pay a fee when they golf). Children are not utilizing anything except maybe family pools and possibly bocce or shuffle board. I can't understand what some people are worried about????? With all of the activities going on here one would think there is more to think about than a child visiting. As for the amenity fee...OMG!! Are people actually complaining about that?? Have you LOOKED and the landscaping around here, the entertainment, the FREE clubs and activities, the pest control, the crew that rides around our streets at night to make sure we are safe, not to mention the medical facilities, police and firemen, stores, restaurants, use of the recreation centers (free) Try getting that anywhere else in the US for the amount we are paying. Some people absolutely amaze me.


Thank you explained it better then I. :bowdown:

[Barboza]

My understanding is that relatives living near the Villages can get 12 month pass to allow for frequent visits to parents/grandparents as they live nearby.
They must be accompanied at all times by the homeowner

[skip0358]

Yes you are correct that is the only purpose. It does NOT allow them to live here , or attend the Charter Schools period.

[Trish Crocker]

:bigbow:Yes you are correct that is the only purpose. It does NOT allow them to live here , or attend the Charter Schools period.