Live Oaks. Beautiful and dangerous and protected.

[graciegirl]

I have seen a lot of fallen oaks this past couple of days, both here and on TV. Yet they are protected.

What say you?

[Bogie Shooter]

They were here first.

[Polar Bear]

I'm in the pro-protection camp, gg.

I know they can be a danger during severe storms, but so can many things that we would never want to get rid of. They are very, very old when they are big enough to be a threat, and...imo...a majestic and beautiful part of Florida.

[chuckinca]

Ours is 13 years old (we have a pic of a 2" diameter by 6' tall sapling when we bought the house) and wife says it is damaged beyond repair by storm and had to be cut down. It's now about 3' Diameter x 30' tall and is the shady stop, on our lawn, at the tee in back of us.

(some twigs were blown off)

It's going!


.

[CWGUY]

They are not all "Live Oaks". Some are the weeds of the tree family. Laurel Oaks are weeds. I slept better this storm knowing my Oak was cut down. Big bucks well spent.:)

[Topspinmo]

not problem, as long as they not over my house:ohdear:

[Polar Bear]

...Laurel Oaks are weeds...
Heh. Everybody is entitled to their opinion...whether it's based on fact or not. :)

[CWGUY]

Heh. Everybody is entitled to their opinion...whether it's based on fact or not. :)

:boxing2: My opinion was based on fact.... but I am no tree hugger.

:read:Quercus hemisphaerica (https://floridata.com/Plants/Fagaceae/Quercus%20hemisphaerica/1058)

[Kazmi]

They're beautiful trees and when I think of them I see them in my mind planted in the middle of a large southern plantation or even a large golf course. They're just too large to be planted on our teeny tiny little lawns. And when they are terribly damaged by storms all I imagine is the poor roof that it ruined and how NOT pretty it is anymore. They have a history and they can be beautiful in the proper setting. Planting them on our postage stamp lawns just doesn't fit my picture. Just an opinion for whatever its worth.

[champion6]

I have seen a lot of fallen oaks this past couple of days, both here and on TV. Yet they are protected.

What say you?1. I say they are NOT protected in Florida because I have researched this. If you can disprove me by reference to a state statute, I would like to see it. "They are protected" is simply and urban myth.

2. If you think they are protected, what can be done about an act of God?

[Polar Bear]

I can agree a newly planted live oak doesn't belong anywhere near a house. Blame that on the landscapers though. They make many mistakes unfortunately...like planting trees and palms spaced such that they look good when they're young, and then miserably clash when they mature.

[Polar Bear]

...My opinion was based on fact...
So was mine.

[manaboutown]

Doesn't look to me like live oaks are protected from the forces of nature such as lightning, high winds and heavy rains.

[Polar Bear]

...I say they are NOT protected in Florida because I have researched this. If you can disprove me by reference to a state statute, I would like to see it. "They are protected" is simply and urban myth...
Lots of laws out there other than Florida statutes. Check city and county and other environmental permitting and development requirements before making such a claim.

And no...I'm not going to cite them. I enforced them for Pinellas County for 30 years. I don't feel any great need to do your homework for you.

[CWGUY]

So was mine.

I showed you my link.... show me yours.:)

Did you read any of it? Here's a small section of it::read:


Laurel oak is commonly planted as a street tree because it is tolerant of poor conditions, grows fast and doesn't get as large as some other oaks. It is a favorite shade tree for residential landscapes. However, laurel oak is prone to rotting from within and larger trees are nearly always at least partly hollow. Limbs are prone to break off. When a tree falls on a house or car in the southeastern U.S., it is, more often than not, a damn laurel oak. The wood is coarse grained, heavy and hard, and not good for lumber. It makes good firewood, though.

Your turn

[CWGUY]

:read: According to data from the Florida Forestry Association, there are around 19 different species of oak trees in Florida.

I am only talking about Laurel Oaks. Common Names: laurel oak, upland laurel oak, damn laurel oak

[Polar Bear]

I showed you my link....
Your turn
Yeah, I started it. But I only had to read this far...

"Laurel oak, or "damn laurel oak" as I call it..."

...to see how scientific and unbiased the article was. :popcorn:

[Wiotte]

As far as I'm concerned if it's my property, it's my tree my property. I'll do whatever is necessary to protect my property. If that means destroying a protected species to achieve that I'll do whatever is necessary to that end.

[Polar Bear]

As far as I'm concerned if it's my property, it's my tree my property. I'll do whatever is necessary to protect my property. If that means destroying a protected species to achieve that I'll do whatever is necessary to that end.
If it's truly a danger to your property, you'll likely be able to get a permit to remove it. If you don't you risk being cited.

[bimmertl]

1. I say they are NOT protected in Florida because I have researched this. If you can disprove me by reference to a state statute, I would like to see it. "They are protected" is simply and urban myth.

2. If you think they are protected, what can be done about an act of God?

Still waiting for original poster to back up "protected" claim. Appears to be another thread that has no factual basis for the allegations made.

[Mrs. Robinson]

I have seen a lot of fallen oaks this past couple of days, both here and on TV. Yet they are protected.

What say you?

1. I say they are NOT protected in Florida because I have researched this. If you can disprove me by reference to a state statute, I would like to see it. "They are protected" is simply and urban myth.

2. If you think they are protected, what can be done about an act of God?

Lots of laws out there other than Florida statutes. Check city and county and other environmental permitting and development requirements before making such a claim.

And no...I'm not going to cite them. I enforced them for Pinellas County for 30 years. I don't feel any great need to do your homework for you.

It bothers me when someone such as the OP, says that a live oak (in this particular case) is protected. Nothing in nature is protected when it is a threat or causes endangerment to something else, i.e., a person, home, etc.

And let's call an Act of God what it really is whether we like her or not -- good 'ole Mother Nature who answers to no law!

[graciegirl]

1. I say they are NOT protected in Florida because I have researched this. If you can disprove me by reference to a state statute, I would like to see it. "They are protected" is simply and urban myth.

2. If you think they are protected, what can be done about an act of God?

You know I respect your judgement and opinion. I thought that we were not allowed to cut them down on our property here in The Villages if they were above a certain size in diameter. That is not so? We have none and no palm trees on our property and I am kinda glad.

[circletrack]

I don't have links, but trees in general around here (especially within Lady Lake, Wildwood and Fruitland Park limits) fall under city ordinances and you must be granted a permit to cut them down. The Villages recently received one to cut down a tree on a lot in the historic side, causing much public outcry. I believe that is what Gracie meant by "Protected"

[Polar Bear]

...I thought that we were not allowed to cut them down on our property here in The Villages if they were above a certain size in diameter. That is not so?...
It is so, gracie. As it is in almost every municipality and county in Florida. Anybody who begins indiscriminately cutting down live oaks will find that out soon enough.

[Carl in Tampa]

Lots of laws out there other than Florida statutes. Check city and county and other environmental permitting and development requirements before making such a claim.

And no...I'm not going to cite them. I enforced them for Pinellas County for 30 years. I don't feel any great need to do your homework for you.

I know of no State Law for all circumstances, but I agree that there is an astounding patchwork of city and county laws regarding a wide variety of different trees.

There IS a State Law protecting three types of Mangrove Trees, which is unlikely to be an issue for residents of The Villages. Florida Laws on Cutting Down Trees | Hunker (https://www.hunker.com/12003734/florida-laws-on-cutting-down-trees)

In Hillsborough County (Tampa) the penalty for cutting down a "Grand Oak" tree can be severe.

From the Hillsborough County regulations: "Grand Oak: A Grand Oak is a tree of the genus Quercus with a trunk measuring 34” DBH and greater, a condition rating of good or better in accordance to the Tree Condition Evaluation Form referenced as Exhibit 4.1.6.1.a of the Development Review Manual, and whose trunk circumference, height and crown measurements are of the size and character to total a minimum 175 points in accordance to the Tree Point System methodology
defined by this Code." https://www.hillsboroughcounty.org/library/hillsborough/media-center/documents/development-services/permits-and-records/permits/natural-resources/grand-oak-regulations.pdf

There is also State Law regarding cutting down a tree near your property line which might affect your neighbor's enjoyment of the tree. A browser search should find this law.

Prudence suggests that a homeowner would inquire diligently before cutting down any tree on their property to assure it is permitted.

Now....... are there also constraints in the property restrictions of the house you bought in The Villages?

[graciegirl]

The reason this has been on my mind is that we have gone out to check on friends homes who are not here at present and one has a large Oak in their yard. I could just see it falling on their house during the night of the Hurricane. Thank Goodness it did not. But in doing some errands we have seen some big limbs fallen on the ground and there have been many photo's shared on the online news and Facebook of huge oaks falling on the golfcourse and one near a rec center. They could be deadly in a Hurricane and probably have been deadly in a Hurricane in other places in Florida.

One of the most beautiful areas in all of The Villages, to me is the area on Buena Vista near where you turn to go to Lake Sumter with the canopy of huge Oak Trees and lovely trimmed foliage of every hue. I always think that this is what heaven must look like.

[chuckinca]

Take a ride on Avenida Central that loops around Spanish Springs.

.

[Bay Kid]

Too big a tree on small lots. Very messy. Beautiful to see elsewhere.

[CWGUY]

;)Anyone read today's paper yet. Check the front page.

[Taltarzac725]

;)Anyone read today's paper yet. Check the front page.

I will do that. They got rid of a lot of beautiful trees when they improved CR101 last year. That was a contractor for the County doing all the work there.

[autumnspring]

They are not all "Live Oaks". Some are the weeds of the tree family. Laurel Oaks are weeds. I slept better this storm knowing my Oak was cut down. Big bucks well spent.:)

RE: weed
There is no such thing as a weed it is simply a plant that grows where YOU do not want it.

AS TO OAKS:
There are at least 400 varieties of oaks in the US. A great GIFT of nature is DIVERSITY. Should one variety of OAK or of any tree be attacked by disease or insect-TOO OFTEN IMPORTED-something else will take its place.

In recent years, we've had our dogwood tress decimated by disease and yet varieties survive. We've lost the stately chestnut trees that used to be common even in the 1960's. Ash trees are currently dying off in mass.

A bit of a tree hugger perhaps. By the way, TRUTH, I heard the towns folks wondering about the ......... of the Villages tearing out OAKS and planting weeds called PALMS.

[collie1228]

Not sure what the OP's post intended, since the trees on the ground were naturally down from a storm, but regarding the protection of all trees in TV, this is from the FAQ section of the district gov website:

"Do I need ARC approval to remove a tree?
Yes. No tree with a trunk four (4) inches or more in diameter shall be removed or effectively removed through excessive injury without first obtaining permission from the ARC. "

Not just oaks, but any tree.

[crash]

My definition of weed also Sue. So if the tree is your yard and you do not want it there it is a weed.

Protected does not mean from damage from nature but as Collie points out from regulations forbidding you from removing it without a permit.

[Bigben007]

I live on the golf course with many live oak trees. They really took a beating in the storm. The moss is no longer flowing in the Breese, it's all shriveled up and an ugly color. As a matter of fact, two look like they should be in a scary Halloween movie. I wish they would take them down, they are really ugly.

[Mrs. Robinson]

Our huge oak trees with the moss hanging down is reminiscent of how we picture an old southern mansion, surrounded by these trees.

Unfortunately, the old, mature oaks with all that moss on them, can cause many of them to uproot.
The moss is heavy, particularly when wet, and some of these trees are virtually covered with it.
Heavy moss coverage is one reason an oak tree can blow over during a storm.

Most of it should really be removed because it does not permit light and air to penetrate through the canopy.

[Chatbrat]

Those big beautiful trees on Buena Vista won't be so beautiful when one of the really big limbs crushes a vehicle and kills someone==then there will be complaints-this was an accident waiting to happen--the developer should have known better

[Bay Kid]

The reason this has been on my mind is that we have gone out to check on friends homes who are not here at present and one has a large Oak in their yard. I could just see it falling on their house during the night of the Hurricane. Thank Goodness it did not. But in doing some errands we have seen some big limbs fallen on the ground and there have been many photo's shared on the online news and Facebook of huge oaks falling on the golfcourse and one near a rec center. They could be deadly in a Hurricane and probably have been deadly in a Hurricane in other places in Florida.

One of the most beautiful areas in all of The Villages, to me is the area on Buena Vista near where you turn to go to Lake Sumter with the canopy of huge Oak Trees and lovely trimmed foliage of every hue. I always think that this is what heaven must look like.

At least this is the road to haven!

[graciegirl]

Those big beautiful trees on Buena Vista won't be so beautiful when one of the really big limbs crushes a vehicle and kills someone==then there will be complaints-this was an accident waiting to happen--the developer should have known better

The developer didn't plant the trees and I don't believe that he is allowed to take them down. This whole issue was discussed at great length when several large Oaks were removed by a Villager living in Bridgeport on Lake Miona. The oaks were on District Land behind the home of a villager. The reason for their removal appeared to be to improve their view of Lake Miona and to sell their home. The St. John River Authority leveled a fine on the District for this and the District didn't do it. The Villager anonymously paid something of the fine. It is still not clear to me, who did what and why. There is some rule to not allow people to cut down large Oak Trees. That is the reason I used the word "protected".

P.S. I found this about Lake County;

https://www.lakecountyfl.gov/pdfs/growth_management/zoning_customer_service/brochures/residential_tree_protection.pdf

[manaboutown]

There is some rule to not allow people to cut down large Oak Trees. That is the reason I used the word "protected".

Particularly if they are not on property you own!

[manaboutown]

One of the most beautiful areas in all of The Villages, to me is the area on Buena Vista near where you turn to go to Lake Sumter with the canopy of huge Oak Trees and lovely trimmed foliage of every hue. I always think that this is what heaven must look like.

I totally agree!

[autumnspring]

Still waiting for original poster to back up "protected" claim. Appears to be another thread that has no factual basis for the allegations made.

If you check you will find you need a permit to remove any tree in the villages beyond, I think it is six inches in diameter.

IT DOES SEEM YOU ARE ARGUING OVER A NON-EXISTENT TREE

[Mrs. Robinson]

If you check you will find you need a permit to remove any tree in the villages beyond, I think it is six inches in diameter.

IT DOES SEEM YOU ARE ARGUING OVER A NON-EXISTENT TREE

Not sure what the OP's post intended, since the trees on the ground were naturally down from a storm, but regarding the protection of all trees in TV, this is from the FAQ section of the district gov website:

"Do I need ARC approval to remove a tree?
Yes. No tree with a trunk four (4) inches or more in diameter shall be removed or effectively removed through excessive injury without first obtaining permission from the ARC. "

Not just oaks, but any tree.

Collie1228, in his/her post #32, made it pretty clear what is involved in the removal of a tree.

[refeik]

I have seen a lot of fallen oaks this past couple of days, both here and on TV. Yet they are protected.

What say you?

Protected you say ??? Tell that to the huge mature trees that were uprooted along CR 101. Or how about the trees that are being ripped from the ground along Morse Blvd..

[graciegirl]

Protected you say ??? Tell that to the huge mature trees that were uprooted along CR 101. Or how about the trees that are being ripped from the ground along Morse Blvd..

I did not mean protected from The Hurricane. I meant protected by statutes that say they cannot be removed after they reach a certain diameter.

Sometimes you have to read back two or three posts, I was not clear.

[Polar Bear]

Some of you people can''t actually be saying you don't know what the term "protected" means in the context of the original post, can you? If so, I wouldn't admit it so readily.

[champion6]

<snip>
P.S. I found this about Lake County;

https://www.lakecountyfl.gov/pdfs/growth_management/zoning_customer_service/brochures/residential_tree_protection.pdfThank you, GG :coolsmiley:

[graciegirl]

We just returned from dinner at Bob Evans and were chatting with a couple there who said they had a big oak fall near the house with a large branch injuring the house. Their deductible was $3000. So sorry for them but glad they weren't harmed.

[ajbrown]

I consider myself a somewhat bright person and I missed an opportunity here. I have an oak on a small lot (shame on the contractor or whoever that put it there).

In hindsight I should have scheduled some one to come in Monday and take it down. Another Irma causality :evil6:

Next time ....

[graciegirl]

I consider myself a somewhat bright person and I missed an opportunity here. I have an oak on a small lot (shame on the contractor or whoever that put it there).

In hindsight I should have scheduled some one to come in Monday and take it down. Another Irma causality :evil6:

Next time ....

AJ...not like you to not strike when the iron was hot or miss the boat. Or something like that.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

They were here first.

So was the grass, the weeds, the dirt and everything else natural. Are you saying that we should never use any natural resources to build anything? Should we not control these natural things to our benefit?

[Polar Bear]

So was the grass, the weeds, the dirt and everything else natural. Are you saying that we should never use any natural resources to build anything? Should we not control these natural things to our benefit?
As with most things, within reason. And imo, some things warrant a little different 'protection' than others.

(For example, don't you think comparing a hundreds-of-years-old living thing with dirt is a bit of a stretch?)

[graciegirl]

As with most things, within reason. And imo, some things warrant a little different 'protection' than others.

(For example, don't you think comparing a hundreds-of-years-old living thing with dirt is a bit of a stretch?)

This is getting personal, Po, I am older than dirt.

[Bogie Shooter]

So was the grass, the weeds, the dirt and everything else natural. Are you saying that we should never use any natural resources to build anything? Should we not control these natural things to our benefit?

As with most things, within reason. And imo, some things warrant a little different 'protection' than others.

(For example, don't you think comparing a hundreds-of-years-old living thing with dirt is a bit of a stretch?)

I agree with Bear.

[Twofour6]

I have a live oak just beyond my backyard fence that is showing its roots and looks very threatening to my property (house) if it ever looses it base and tumbles. I'm contacting the powers to be to at least state my case for future reference. If the mighty oak falls while were at home my heirs will have to file any claim, if there is one to file.

[johnadams]

Live oaks are only "protected" by The Villages Covenants. They are beautiful, but messy when the leaves drop. They destroy lawns and sometimes encroach into foundation slabs when the roots grow too large. They don't belong in areas with small lots like The Villages.

Jack

[graciegirl]

Live oaks are only "protected" by The Villages Covenants. They are beautiful, but messy when the leaves drop. They destroy lawns and sometimes encroach into foundation slabs when the roots grow too large. They don't belong in areas with small lots like The Villages.

Jack

NO. They are protected by a lot of different things. The St. John's River Authority was one of them. Lake County is another. Tampa has an ordinance. I have posted all those links. DON'T pick on just The Villages.

[VApeople]

Live oaks are only "protected" by The Villages Covenants. They are beautiful, but messy when the leaves drop. They destroy lawns and sometimes encroach into foundation slabs when the roots grow too large. They don't belong in areas with small lots like The Villages.

Jack

Maybe people should not build slab houses on small lots where live oaks chose to live over 100 years ago. If such houses are built, wise people will choose not to buy them.

[jnkaufmann]

I see some counties within Florida do have regulations protecting live oaks but do not know if there is such an ordinance for Sumter County

[graciegirl]

I see some counties within Florida do have regulations protecting live oaks but do not know if there is such an ordinance for Sumter County

I was searching just now where I thought I had previously found the information under St.John's Water Management; a State wide EPA site, and I couldn't find anything. Perhaps rules have been softened since last presidential election?

[Polar Bear]

Here's one example, Lake County. Many (most?) cities and counties...including TV...have similar permit requirements.

Trees - Zoning (https://www.lakecountyfl.gov/departments/economic_growth/planning_and_zoning/residential_zoning/trees.aspx)

[graciegirl]

On another note, about trees and bushes that took such a beating for hours and hours and many lost leaves. I can see new growth already on the plants and trees originally planted on our lot. They chose well. They are durable and hardy and hurricane strong.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I have seen a lot of fallen oaks this past couple of days, both here and on TV. Yet they are protected.

What say you?

They make a mess. In my opinion, they are wonderful in parks but shouldn't be allowed anywhere near houses or other buildings.

One of my neighbors behind me has one in his backyard and it makes a mess in my backyard. My patio is all stained from the crap that this tree constantly dropped.

If I had realized it, I never would have bought this house.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

As with most things, within reason. And imo, some things warrant a little different 'protection' than others.

(For example, don't you think comparing a hundreds-of-years-old living thing with dirt is a bit of a stretch?)

Living thing as in a plant? Not really. The dirt was a living thing at one time as well.

It's bad enough that some people think that we shouldn't kill animals. Are we now going to elevate plants to that status?

I think if a plant is on your property you should have the right to remove it.