Floors

[another Linda]

I need to replace carpet in our CYV and I'm still dithering about what I'm going to do -- ceramic tile, laminate, engineered wood, hardwood, new carpet or ... I've heard good and bad about all of them. In any case, I thought I would get some estimates for a bunch of choices from a couple of different places. Floor Master will be one. So my question: what other companies do a variety of installations?

Any words of advice? If I don't make up my mind soon I may just dither myself to death.

[ijusluvit]

For my money, there is nothing which compares to real hardwood floors. In TV homes, that's engineered hardwood, glued down, not floating. You can pay lots at the independent flooring companies, but be sure to compare those prices with Lowes. Their selection and quality is very good and I've known a couple of people who thought their installers were very good as well.

[schotzyb]

We used Great Lakes Carpet and Tile for our laminate floor in the living room, tile in the kitchen and baths and carpet in the bedrooms. Very pleased with price and workmanship

[another Linda]

Thanks to both of you. I just read up on engineered wood and it sounds like it might be ok for TV. But what happens if it gets scratched? I found phone numbers for both Floormasters and Great Lakes. Now to make up my mind!

[zcaveman]

I have been here eight years and it is time to replace my carpets and linoleum. I am thinking about going to Great Lakes Carpet myself.

I am not a fan of the fake wood flooring that everyone is installing in homes. It looks fake. It is not wood.

Carpet is soft and comfortable and looks good.

Just my opinion.

[another Linda]

The fake wood you are talking about is laminate, right? I think that is different than the engineered wood, but I really want to see both. I've been discouraged with carpet since it seems to get dirty so quickly, and even more quickly after it has been cleaned. But we rent our place when we aren't there, so that makes a difference. I've been thinking about ceramic tile, but again I've heard good and bad.

[otherbruddaDarrell]

We also have a courtyard villa and had all the carpet and linoleum removed. We then had the whole house done with Italian ceramic tile. We also had the master shower re-built and tiled as well.
I would suggest using the smaller (12") tile instead of the larger (18-24") tile in case you need one replaced somewhere down the road.
We also had him remove the carpet from the Lanaii and had it tiled before we had our glass sliders installed.
The old carpet was in good shape, and was donated to habitat for humanity. We replaced both toilets with higher toilets since they were removed for the installation and they were also donated.
Since we have a teacup chihuahua and a Bichon.....and cats...we did not want carpeting.
There are several tile people that are listed in the paper that will give you a good price, but I really do not want to recommend one over another.
I have installed pergo before and do not like the "plastic" sound when walking on it. We prefer a nice wood or tile.
You might want to consider solar lights also....they are great!
Clean, fast installation and they give lots of natural light.:clap2:

[Army Guy]

We have a 2bd/ebath CYV, and although it was brand new, we didn't want carper so we had ceramic tile installed throughout the whole place, closets, and lanai. We did it all through Home Depot and recommend highly. We used 16 inch, installed diag. and it turned out great! The whole thing, install, the tile, plus the crack fillin stuff if you have any surface cracks and the lanai seams, plus carpet removal was right at $8000, then getting the grout sealed was right at $900. That is the total cost for everything.
Army Guy

[starflyte1]

Army Guy, Does the $8000 include removal of old flooring? Thanks, Pat

[otherbruddaDarrell]

Hi another Linda
I don't know if you got the reply, but yes we are neighbors!
Christine works full time at freedom point but still gets all the villa ladies together on a sat. for lunch.
When you get back to TV stop by and we will show you all that we have done to our Villa.
We have more in our place then we could sell it for, but we are frogs and fixed it for us to enjoy and live in.
We also changed our landscaping to where it just about maintenance free.:beer3:

[Mikitv]

Linda last year I put engineered wood floor in a small office I had in the home we just sold. It looked nicer than the laminate and cleaned up very easily and I did get a couple of scratches that I fixed with a permanent marker that matched. My only complaint was it did dent easy from the office chair in their and the scratches. I also had real wood and tile in the same house but I love the real wood better than engineered.

[another Linda]

Thanks Darrell, Mik, and everyone who shared their experiences. I guess I'm really coming down to tile as the best solution for us -- plus I do like it. Now, I haven't lived with it during January in Florida, that's true. But how cold can it be? I've lived in Syracuse for all these years. I'm tough!

[ijusluvit]

A few comments about above posts:

- engineered hardwood is real wood. It looks and feels exactly like full 3/4" hardwood, but is better suited to the TV concrete slab floors. It is nothing like laminate, which does look more like plastic because it is.

- if you 'float' engineered hardwood, instead of glueing it down, it will feel funny, just like laminate does.

- if you think "tile is best" you should consult the threads here which air many complaints about tile being very hard to keep clean, cold, too hard, etc.

- In my first post above I was talking about cost from direct experience. I paid a fortune for engineered hardwood from Great Lakes. A year later I saved a ton by buying the same quality flooring and excellent installation at Lowes.

[Army Guy]

Pat, yes the $8000 includes pull up and total removal of the carpet even to the dump.

Army Guy

[l2ridehd]

$8000 seems somewhat high to me. I did about 1100 square feet in my home, everywhere except the bedrooms. This included everything. Remove old tile and carpet, remove it to the dump, special sealing under the floor (forget what it was called, something to prevent floor cracks cracking the tile), laying the tile diagonally, tile, grout, sealing the grout, and clean up. Removing tile was $1 a square foot, Install was $1.50 a square foot, I did get a deal on the tile as it was a close out price at .78 cents a 16 by 16 tile, and all the other materials was a total cost of under $4000. I thought is was around $3400, but when I went back and checked everything it was closer to $4000. I guess the difference could have been the cost of the tile as I know that can vary from .50 cents to $8 a square foot. But everything except the tile came in at about $3.20 a square foot.

[Army Guy]

Yes, I agree tile cost did vary. I can't remember the cost, but we did buy a high end tile, so it would last, take extreme temps either way better, and be more ap to shake off things dropped without cracking. Overboard maybe, but being military I would rather err on the side of better!

Army Guy

[chuckinca]

Thanks Darrell, Mik, and everyone who shared their experiences. I guess I'm really coming down to tile as the best solution for us -- plus I do like it. Now, I haven't lived with it during January in Florida, that's true. But how cold can it be? I've lived in Syracuse for all these years. I'm tough!


We have ceramic tile in the kitchen, family room, laundry and bathrooms and didn't notice the floors as being cold last January (it was pretty cold here last Jan) and we are from sunny Cal and don't like the cold.


.

[GERALDINE]

Don't know if you've made your decision yet, but we've had both hardwood and laminate floors and I don't have anything against either of them. I just know from having hardwood up north (MI) that it swells, expands, and contracts depending on temp and humidity and would sometime have quite large gaps in it where dirt collected and then when it was time for it to expand again it couldn't because stuff had gotten down in there. I really like our laminate and I don't think it looks like "plastic" as some have said. It is EXTREMELY easy to care for. Ours has a 3/4" felt backing on it so it is very easy on the feet and legs. In the Kit, Baths, and laundry room, we have ceramic tile. I like the tile very much also. The problem with tile, however, is that the grout stains. No matter what you do...seal it or not...it gets dirty in the high traffic areas and if something is dropped. I'd have to think twice about ceramic tile again. It also chips if something hard is dropped on it. We purchased our flooring from Paradise Flooring and were very happy with their price, their work ethic, and their service. I would definitely use them again.

[golfnut]

Patches, are you sure you have 3/4 inch felt underneath your laminate floor, that is really thick???...GN

[GERALDINE]

Patches, are you sure you have 3/4 inch felt underneath your laminate floor, that is really thick???...GN

Hey Golfnut...we're from Howell, MI too!!! When did you live there? We lived there from 1971 through 1999 and from there moved to Tawas for 4 years.

Anyhow, as to your question about the felt pad...oops...typo...it's a little over 1/4", which is still pretty thick. It is brand new and is called Moderna Soundgard. Sorry 'bout that!!

[another Linda]

Question for ijusluvit: When you worked with Lowes, did you have to pay in full before they would start any work? That is what we encountered when we redid the kitchen. I had a real problem with that. The managers told me that their policy was to be paid in full when sub-contractors were involved. Needless to say, Lowes didn't do our kitchen! I may buy materials from them, but I'll get someone else to install.

Have I made up my mind yet? I've been dithering for a year and counting!

[Army Guy]

another Linda, I don't know about Lowe's, but we used Home Depot for both all our granite through-out the villa and whole villa tile, and yes you have to pay full. I may be wrong, but I didn't have a problem with it. Now if it was some small Business/Company, yes I would feel like you. But not with a national Company, their rep is on the line, and from personal experience HD was right on top of everything from the scheduling to the quality of the install. HD does not pay the sub-contractor till you are happy, so you will not be stuck. I HIGHLY recommend HD, especially the Lady Lake location. Ask for Mark in flooring, and thenMark the Expiditor (sp) they are both great and professional.

Army Guy

[another Linda]

When we made our decision about the kitchen, we were just coming off being badly burned by a landscaper. That and the economy was so bad that even with a national company you just never know who will be around. I'm still gun shy and am much more comfortable with local people -- actual people! -- that asked to be paid when you are satisfied. I love the guy who did my cabinets (Tim Fields) and love the guy who did the granite (Ty Duncan). I'm hoping to find someone as good for the floors.

[golfnut]

We kept our place in Howell, it's on Lake Chemung off of Hughes Road. Where is Paradise Floors at, we may take a ride over there.....GN

[katezbox]

We used Great Lakes for our floors. They were also the sub that TV used for our home. We have tile everywhere - but they also do carpet and wood. They were very professional - you would not believe how well they cleaned up at the end of the day. I highly recommend them. We worked with Mike.

Linda, we did give them a down payment because they were able to locate enough tile in the same dye lot as TV was installing in the rest of the house. At the time having the whole house done in tile was not an option (still not sure if it is for this model), but with my allergies I didn't want a lot of carpet. Since they had to procure the materials and then wait for TV to complete our house before they could begin, we felt that was reasonable.

k

[ijusluvit]

Yes, we paid Lowes for our job up front. I saw a Lowes job done before I bought mine and I was very comfortable with the arrangements. I also agree with the poster above who had good luck with Home Depot.

IMHO, the bottom line is that you may feel better with the smaller independent flooring companies, (assuming they are honest and reliable), but for the same quality material and labor you will spend less at Lowes and Home Depot. The savings will be even greater if you watch for one of their frequent sales either on labor or material.

[another Linda]

With Lowes and HD, what happens if you are not satisfied with something? My objection when we redid our kitchen was that they couldn't guarantee when the job would be done, and if I wanted to be there while it was being done, well just be there! For us snowbirds who are still working that could be a problem. And the fact that they would have our money for 4 months before anything happened? "Ya gotta a problem wit dat?" Yep.

Now, I certainly don't mind putting something down (although some don't even ask for that). I know they need to buy materials. But to pay-in-full? I personally am just not comfortable having been burned.

[Boomer]

Hi Linda,

Here is a dissertation on flooring for you.

Shameless Confession Time: I absolutely love to talk about floors. In fact, in an old thread on here, I called myself the Cliff Clavin of talking about floors. (before somebody else called me Cliff -- but at least I am not talking about potatoes)

And then I went on to say that actually, I start to sound a little like Forrest Gump when it comes to floors. You know. Ya got your engineered wood. Ya got your sanded and finished on the job hardwood. Ya got your pre-finished hardwood. Ya got your laminate hardwood-look hardwood. Ya got your ceramic tile. Ya got your porcelain tile. Ya even got your ceramic tile-ish looking laminate.

My Ohio house is all hardwood. (except for the ceramic tile parts) 5-inch wide planks, 3/4" thick, tongue and groove, pre-finished hardwood. Mr. Boomer did the install after the purchase of many, many, many expensive power tools. A pneumatic nailer. Some kind of laser level. Some saws. A saw stand. A screw gun with a handle so you can stand up and use it. And a bunch of other stuff. It was quite a project.....But I digress......

Anyway, about laminate, I don't have any, but Mr. B. has installed it in our daughter's house. It is a lot less expensive than hardwood. It is really easy to install and to take care of and it is practically indestructible. Regular hardwood does get scratched, even the prefinished stuff can. Not easily. But it can. (We have it in the kitchen, too.) A few scratches do not bother me. I think it kind of goes with the territory of real wood.

I saw that you said rental and that might be another reason to keep laminate under consideration. Laminate saves aggravation.

There are some nice looks to be found with laminate, too. It can be a good choice.

But no matter what kind of floor you choose, the underlayment is crucial.

And now, for Part II. I must go on and on about ceramic tile. Our bathrooms are ceramic, and so is the 4-season room that we built last fall.......and winter. (4 months -- aaaaugh!) But I digress.....once more... back to floors.....

I think the key to ceramic tile is picking a color that does not show dirt and keeping the grout line as skinny as you can. In the new room, we did 1/8 inch. We also used some hideously expensive can of quartz grout that I talked about on here somewhere before. It is supposed to resist dirt and stains like nothing else. I have a big fear of red wine. (This from a woman who has a yellow couch....go figure) So anyway, we sprung for the more expensive grout, but we have not tested it yet so who knows.

If you end up choosing tile, it is very important to choose tile that is the color of dirt. Preferably a mix of several dirt colors.

Now, I know I already showed the following picture of my dog Annie in a different thread. But I am using the picture again because in this thread Annie is being the spokesmodel for the ceramic tile floor with the skinny grout lines.

Please notice that the floor is not only the many shades of dirt, but it also matches the dog’s hair. (Boomer is no fool.) That floor is in Ohio, of course, and it is heated underneath so that my feet do not freeze on winter mornings and the dear old dog loves it, too, as you can see.

http://i881.photobucket.com/albums/ac11/CincyGal/Roompictures346.jpg

And here is a picture that shows why we need the heated floor.

http://i881.photobucket.com/albums/ac11/CincyGal/Roompictures330.jpg

Well, enough from me about floors – again. I just cannot resist going on and on about floors, even if I am repeating myself. (been around here too long -- stuff comes up again) But hey, at least I know I am repeating myself.....I think.

But one more thing, whatever kind of material you choose, buy a little extra and stash it. You might need to replace a spot for some reason, somewhere down the road.

Boomer

PS: I apologize for making the pictures the size of a billboard again. I do not know how to get them smaller.

[Bettiboop]

Awwwe...look at Annie in the snow! Does she like the snow? I've had dogs who absolutely loved to romp and roll in the snow...and others who hated it.

[Army Guy]

Another Linda, HD gave us a written warrenty that covered the install. We had to like it and sign if we did so the Contractor gets paid. At HD the Contractors only get paid AFTER, so they are on the line to do it right. Also the warrenty is backed by HD.
Four monhts? Why so long? WE had to special order our tile since it was a better quality then store stocks, plus the amount we needed and that only took 3 weeks. From the time we paid full to tile complete was only 6 weeks. And we like you are not full timers yet, just basically weekends and vacations. The tile was completely installed while we were not even there to keep tabs on them. We only went down at the end to inspect it. Looked great, no problems, we signed the sheet and then they got paid from HD. Our HomeWatchers who I highly recommend, Mary & Ed Edwards, of Safe Home Watch, opened th villa daily and also checked the quality for us while they worked. We did the same so far for everything we have had done in our villa, granite, front door leaded glass, garage sealed, attic steps, backsplash tiled. Never there for the work, just the end result to inspect!

Army Guy

[another Linda]

Boomer, I'm so glad you were able to resurrect your dissertation on floors! I still need to go back and read the other thread. I love your idea about getting a floor the color of dirt -- Makes perfect sense to me. I just knew I could count on you. (I love Annie too).

Army Guy, HD's policy of not paying the sub makes perfect sense. I wonder if Lowes does that too. And if so, why didn't they mention it? They knew that was the reason we didn't go with them. A mystery.

[Army Guy]

Another Linda, I asked HD about the payment policy. Since we were going to be long distance and not there to watch, I was like what is the Contractors incentive to do it right and good? That is when they told me. That is also why I think it was installed so quickly. I told them my trip schedule to TV, so they worked it so they would be just finished and I could review......they wanted their money quicker instead of having to wait several more weeks/months!

Army Guy

[Xavier]

We were at Home Depot yesterday to look into their flooring and we got the distinct impression that they could care less if they sold anything. Their display of wood flooring was not appealing at all. After looking over what they had and being ignored for the entire time, we decided to try Lowes. Lowes was much more helpful. The advantage of the local places is that you can see sections of various products installed on their floor. It really helps. We're leaning towards Lowes so far but we have several stores to check out before the decision. We're doing wood or laminate in the living room, dining room, part of the foyer and the hallway to the master bedroom. We're doing carpeting in the master and guest bedrooms and tile in the den. Home Depot lost their chance at a pretty good piece of change. They are big and won't even miss it!

[Army Guy]

Wow, that experience at HD was totally different then ours! Mark who works in flooring was super helpful, plus brought the Expeditor out who works with theContrators to talk with us. Probably spent 1-2 hours with both discussing and planning. They even laid out samples of the tiles together so we could really get the feel.
Had the same treatment with Sarah at HD is Kitchens who helped us do our granite.

Army Guy

[otherbruddaDarrell]

HEY Linda,
I forgot that we have porcelain tile and not ceramic.
My wife said that if ceramic cracks you see the cracks, but if porcelain cracks it is the same color all the way thru:a040:

[another Linda]

Well, our new floors are in. We ended up going with Floormasters on 301 and using porcelain tile. I haven't seen it yet, but Redwitch kept watch for me and said the installer did a great job. bruddaDarrell also saw it and said it looks great. And, yes Boomer, I chose something that is the color of dirt! I'll post pictures when we get there next week! Can't wait.

[Boomer]

Well, our new floors are in. We ended up going with Floormasters on 301 and using porcelain tile. I haven't seen it yet, but Redwitch kept watch for me and said the installer did a great job. bruddaDarrell also saw it and said it looks great. And, yes Boomer, I chose something that is the color of dirt! I'll post pictures when we get there next week! Can't wait.

Hi Linda,

We will look forward to your pictures.

And you will be really glad that you took my advice about how to choose the color. I have never regretted doing that.

Annie, in the picture, the spokesmodel whose hair matches the tile perfectly, is still with us. She is asleep at my feet. She is now 15 years and 8 months old, and really loves it when it is time to heat the tile. Be glad you do not have to worry about doing that.

(Actually, I think our floor is porcelain like yours, not ceramic. I am not sure I even know what the difference is. It might have something to do with the color going all the way through porcelain -- but I also could be making that up. I don't really know. But I do know my color-choosing method sure works.)

Boomer

[eremite06]

Hi Linda,

Here is a dissertation on flooring for you.

Shameless Confession Time: I absolutely love to talk about floors. In fact, in an old thread on here, I called myself the Cliff Clavin of talking about floors. (before somebody else called me Cliff -- but at least I am not talking about potatoes)

And then I went on to say that actually, I start to sound a little like Forrest Gump when it comes to floors. You know. Ya got your engineered wood. Ya got your sanded and finished on the job hardwood. Ya got your pre-finished hardwood. Ya got your laminate hardwood-look hardwood. Ya got your ceramic tile. Ya got your porcelain tile. Ya even got your ceramic tile-ish looking laminate

My Ohio house is all hardwood. (except for the ceramic tile parts) 5-inch wide planks, 3/4" thick, tongue and groove, pre-finished hardwood. Mr. Boomer did the install after the purchase of many, many, many expensive power tools. A pneumatic nailer. Some kind of laser level. Some saws. A saw stand. A screw gun with a handle so you can stand up and use it. And a bunch of other stuff. It was quite a project.....But I digress......

Anyway, about laminate, I don't have any, but Mr. B. has installed it in our daughter's house. It is a lot less expensive than hardwood. It is really easy to install and to take care of and it is practically indestructible. Regular hardwood does get scratched, even the prefinished stuff can. Not easily. But it can. (We have it in the kitchen, too.) A few scratches do not bother me. I think it kind of goes with the territory of real wood.

I saw that you said rental and that might be another reason to keep laminate under consideration. Laminate saves aggravation.

There are some nice looks to be found with laminate, too. It can be a good choice.

But no matter what kind of floor you choose, the underlayment is crucial.

And now, for Part II. I must go on and on about ceramic tile. Our bathrooms are ceramic, and so is the 4-season room that we built last fall.......and winter. (4 months -- aaaaugh!) But I digress.....once more... back to floors.....

I think the key to ceramic tile is picking a color that does not show dirt and keeping the grout line as skinny as you can. In the new room, we did 1/8 inch. We also used some hideously expensive can of quartz grout that I talked about on here somewhere before. It is supposed to resist dirt and stains like nothing else. I have a big fear of red wine. (This from a woman who has a yellow couch....go figure) So anyway, we sprung for the more expensive grout, but we have not tested it yet so who knows.

If you end up choosing tile, it is very important to choose tile that is the color of dirt. Preferably a mix of several dirt colors.

Now, I know I already showed the following picture of my dog Annie in a different thread. But I am using the picture again because in this thread Annie is being the spokesmodel for the ceramic tile floor with the skinny grout lines.

Please notice that the floor is not only the many shades of dirt, but it also matches the dog’s hair. (Boomer is no fool.) That floor is in Ohio, of course, and it is heated underneath so that my feet do not freeze on winter mornings and the dear old dog loves it, too, as you can see.

http://i881.photobucket.com/albums/ac11/CincyGal/Roompictures346.jpg

And here is a picture that shows why we need the heated floor.

http://i881.photobucket.com/albums/ac11/CincyGal/Roompictures330.jpg

Well, enough from me about floors – again. I just cannot resist going on and on about floors, even if I am repeating myself. (been around here too long -- stuff comes up again) But hey, at least I know I am repeating myself.....I think.

But one more thing, whatever kind of material you choose, buy a little extra and stash it. You might need to replace a spot for some reason, somewhere down the road.

Boomer

PS: I apologize for making the pictures the size of a billboard again. I do not know how to get them smaller.

For all interested in flooring, check out the latest Consumer Reports Aug. '10 issue, page 37.