Horrific Las Vegas Massacre

[ColdNoMore]

Waking up this morning to the worst massacre in our country's history...really brings home how fleeting our life can be.


My heart and condolences go out to all, who lost or had wounded loved ones...from this apparently lone nutjob who committed mass murder.


It's just hard to comprehend. :ohdear:

[Taltarzac725]

Waking up this morning to the worst massacre in our country's history...really brings home how fleeting our life can be.


My heart and condolences go out to all, who lost or had wounded loved ones...from this apparently lone nutjob who committed mass murder.


It's just hard to comprehend. :ohdear:

My heart also goes out to those who lost someone last night.

[BK001]

It is so sad. When will it stop? This time the shooter is a 64 year old man -- much older than the typical profile. Prayers for all affected.

[Polar Bear]

A good friend has children in Vegas. (He just texted me to tell me they were okay.)

Unimaginable. :ohdear:

[Taltarzac725]

A good friend has children in Vegas. (He just texted me to tell me they were okay.)

Unimaginable. :ohdear:

Let me just say that I have had welcome news on Facebook. I should not say much more.

[coalminer]

Without some kind of gun control , at least to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally disturbed and criminal element, we are going to see more and more of this. It's time to face reality on this subject.

[Madelaine Amee]

I wish I could say I am surprised at this horrendous massacre in LV, but I cannot do so. I have never seen this country in such turmoil. IMO it is a breeding ground for events such as this.

[Chi33]

The guy have a 400,000$ home in a retirement community :(

[dewilson58]

It is so sad. When will it stop? This time the shooter is a 64 year old man -- much older than the typical profile. Prayers for all affected.

Can't imagine it will ever stop.

[Wiotte]

In the absence of a revolutionary cultural change this will continue to be the normal.


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[manaboutown]

The guy have a 400,000$ home in a retirement community :(

He lived in nearby Mesquite which does contain a retirement community. So he lived in it?

He was a licensed pilot. Weird. Just flipped out?

Apparently he checked in on Thursday. How on earth could he get and keep that many rifles into that room without housekeeping wondering what's up???

[JSR22]

Do not disturb sign on the door?

[Polar Bear]

In the absence of a revolutionary cultural change this will continue to be the normal...
Normal?

Such acts, to one degree or another, have always been part of the world, and will never totally stop. But I will never use the word ‘normal’ to describe them.

[manaboutown]

He lived in Mesquite, TX from 1998 until 2010. Then lived in a retirement community in Mesquite, NV. Very strange. He had lived in Reno, as well. The guy moved around...

[Wiotte]

Normal?



Such acts, to one degree or another, have always been part of the world, and will never totally stop. But I will never use the word ‘normal’ to describe them.



nor·mal
ˈnôrməl/Submit
adjective
1.
conforming to a standard; usual, typical, or expected.

Yes, normal. It is expected and will continue.


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[Polar Bear]

nor·mal
ˈnôrməl/Submit
adjective
1.
conforming to a standard; usual, typical, or expected.

Yes, normal. It is expected and will continue...
Nope. Not to me.

Define it as you wish. But as I said, I will never refer to such acts as normal.

[Bonny]

My heart just breaks for those affected by this senseless tragedy. Prayers for them and their family.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Without some kind of gun control , at least to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally disturbed and criminal element, we are going to see more and more of this. It's time to face reality on this subject.

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to blame guns and the President.

The fact is that this guy used a fully automatic weapon which is pretty much illegal to own in this country. I would guess that he procured it through some kind of illegal means.

Laws don't prevent crimes. Gun control laws do not prevent people from getting guns illegally. No laws would have prevented this. This man broke many laws. If it were a matter of enacting new laws these things would never happen as bad or sick people will continue to break them.

I guess next it will somehow be President Trump's fault.

[graciegirl]

He lived in Mesquite, TX from 1998 until 2010. Then lived in a retirement community in Mesquite, NV. Very strange. He had lived in Reno, as well. The guy moved around...

He lived in Florida for two years within the last five years according to his brother Eric, who lives in Orlando near their mother. Brother also said Marilou Danley was his girlfriend and a nice person. Heard she was out of the country.

I think most of us are trying so hard to make any sense of this.

Breaking news says death toll is now 58, injured 500. What could make a person do this? Prayers for the thousands of people directly affected by this. Impossible to imagine their heartbreak.

[Trayderjoe]

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to blame guns and the President.

The fact is that this guy used a fully automatic weapon which is pretty much illegal to own in this country. I would guess that he procured it through some kind of illegal means.

Laws don't prevent crimes. Gun control laws do not prevent people from getting guns illegally. No laws would have prevented this. This man broke many laws. If it were a matter of enacting new laws these things would never happen as bad or sick people will continue to break them.

I guess next it will somehow be President Trump's fault.

:BigApplause: :thumbup: :agree:

Our prayers go out to all after a horrendous tragedy.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

In the absence of a revolutionary cultural change this will continue to be the normal.


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That's pretty much it and I can't imagine how that change could possibly be brought about.

[blueash]

Without some kind of gun control , at least to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally disturbed and criminal element, we are going to see more and more of this. It's time to face reality on this subject.

If Sandy Hook where children were slaughtered didn't change the discussion, this won't either. One of the few actual pieces of legislation that has been passed by this congress and signed by this president was to eliminate a rule to keep weapons out the hands of those deemed incompetent, which would not have prevented this event. But it shows our priorities. For further evidence see the election eve rally of Senator to be Roy Moore of Alabama and the bill working its way thru Congress now to deregulate silencers so shooters can fire and not have their gunshots heard. Big need for that.

[coalminer]

Calm down ,my man. Again deal with reality. Semi auto weapons that can be bought throughtout the country leagally can be easily converted to automatic. Also the gun show loop hole is a glaring example where laws can be effective.

[gummybear223]

I am a retired Las Vegas police officer. I have a friend and former co-worker that was there, working the concert and helped get people to safety. Fortunately, God was protecting him and he was unharmed. I've heard two officers are among the fatalities and at least two more injured, one critically. I can't even process the suffering and grief of everyone involved. Please keep comments of blame for gun control or politics to yourself or your private conversations. The blame for this event lies with the individual and the psychopathy and hate in his heart. Pray for all the victims and their loved ones.

[xNYer]

The fact is that this guy used a fully automatic weapon which is pretty much illegal to own in this country. I would guess that he procured it through some kind of illegal means.



Nevada is an open-carry state, and automatic weapons are legal there.

[blueash]

I am a retired Las Vegas police officer. I have a friend and former co-worker that was there, working the concert and helped get people to safety. Fortunately, God was protecting him and he was unharmed. I've heard two officers are among the fatalities and at least two more injured, one critically. I can't even process the suffering and grief of everyone involved. Please keep comments of blame for gun control or politics to yourself or your private conversations. The blame for this event lies with the individual and the psychopathy and hate in his heart. Pray for all the victims and their loved ones.

When the next mass death in Europe or here perpetrated by a Muslim happens, will you and others not be correct to mention the underlying factors that made that next event happen? That the ready availability of teaching from radicalizing Islamic websites and persons had a role in the event? And if the President and the Congress cry out for solutions to lessen the likelihood of it happening again, should we not have that discussion? But apparently not this time, when it is a clear situation where if the Brady Law had remained in place and enforced or even strengthened this might not have happened.

This is not a time for prayer from me. Too bad God didn't protect everyone there. It is time again, and again, and again to point out the death grip the gun industry has on our politicians and the resulting deaths that come from poor policy. And today in American another 90 people will die from gunshots. And tomorrow, and the next day. Yes the blame goes to the shooter, but that does not mean there are no changes that can be made to prevent the next man. Fortunately we didn't just say the drunk driver is the cause of his road carnage. We changed the law to make it harder for the next driver to commit the same crime.

Las Vegas gun show 2016

[manaboutown]

The fact is that this guy used a fully automatic weapon which is pretty much illegal to own in this country. I would guess that he procured it through some kind of illegal means.



Nevada is an open-carry state, and automatic weapons are legal there.

Well, they are not legal in Mexico but look at the killings down there.

[graciegirl]

Well, they are not legal in Mexico but look at the killings down there.

Correct me if I am wrong. Are guns legal to own in Chicago? I don't have a gun, but I am glad my neighbors do. If a law were passed to limit ownership of guns, only the good guys would obey the law. THAT is the reality. I think there are two ways to look at things and two ways to vote. What sounds nice and what really happens.

[graciegirl]

I am a retired Las Vegas police officer. I have a friend and former co-worker that was there, working the concert and helped get people to safety. Fortunately, God was protecting him and he was unharmed. I've heard two officers are among the fatalities and at least two more injured, one critically. I can't even process the suffering and grief of everyone involved. Please keep comments of blame for gun control or politics to yourself or your private conversations. The blame for this event lies with the individual and the psychopathy and hate in his heart. Pray for all the victims and their loved ones.

Amen. And thank you for your service.

[maureenod]

Correct me if I am wrong. Are guns legal to own in Chicago? I don't have a gun, but I am glad my neighbors do. If a law were passed to limit ownership of guns, only the good guys would obey the law. THAT is the reality. I think there are two ways to look at things and two ways to vote. What sounds nice and what really happens.

We're talking about FULLY AUTOMATIC GUNS ,GRACIE. No one needs one.

[graciegirl]

We're talking about FULLY AUTOMATIC GUNS ,GRACIE. No one needs one.

No they don't but they are able to get them, somehow. Heroin is illegal too. Underhanded people with no moral compass prey on good people who follow rules.

[manaboutown]

Interesting about his father who at one time was on the FBI's Most Wanted list

Las Vegas shooter's father, 'Bingo Bruce,' lived colorful life of crime and deception | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/02/las-vegas-shooters-father-bingo-bruce-lived-colorful-life-crime-and-deception.html)

[Rockyrd]

No they don't but they are able to get them, somehow. Heroin is illegal too. Underhanded people with no moral compass prey on good people who follow rules.

I am not a gun owner. Never owned one in my life. Fired a gun only in the military in basic training.

Listening to this terrible thing unfold, there are a number of videos on YouTube with instruction on how to easily turn an semi automatic into a full blown automatic weapon and to do it legally.

So the laws do NOT prevent automatic weapons, they simply make you add something cheap, and then you have an automatic weapon and its legal.

I do not know the laws, but it appears the NRA is striving for automatic AND silencers and we just removed the impediment for Mentally ill folks from getting guns.

What are the uses for automatic weapons and silencers and allowing mentally ill to buy them ?

Again, I don't know this law well, but I am posting only because this crap about the gun didn't kill, the guy who pulled the trigger did is just crap.

We know there is evil, but we say we just have to deal with it ?

I just had to speak out and will take criticisism or education because I just do not know the law.

I suppose the automatic weapons with silencers will insure not scaring off the next victim, be it a deer, a rabbit or humans.

[Bogie Shooter]

When some one says "my friend was protected by God so he is alright" what does this someone say about those who died? Where was God protecting them? Is this a false narrative?

[Chi33]

What are the uses for automatic weapons and silencers and allowing mentally ill to buy them ?

I suppose the automatic weapons with silencers will insure not scaring off the next victim, be it a deer, a rabbit or humans.

There are no silencers like in the movies (if people don't know), only suppressors that still make a ton of noise and melt on automatic weapons. It would glow.

When I fired an M2 the point was to make a lot of noise. He didn't have an M2, no way. Snipers may use a suppressor with a 50 cal however the single shot is coming from a mile away.

[Erika]

Correct me if I am wrong. Are guns legal to own in Chicago? I don't have a gun, but I am glad my neighbors do. If a law were passed to limit ownership of guns, only the good guys would obey the law. THAT is the reality. I think there are two ways to look at things and two ways to vote. What sounds nice and what really happens.

If one were to base legislation on your rationale, we may as well not have any laws as the only ones obeying them would be your so-called "good guys." That is naive and simplistic.

[redwitch]

I'll leave the political discussions for another day. Today, I'll just mourn the death and injuries of so many.

[Steve9930]

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to blame guns and the President.

The fact is that this guy used a fully automatic weapon which is pretty much illegal to own in this country. I would guess that he procured it through some kind of illegal means.

Laws don't prevent crimes. Gun control laws do not prevent people from getting guns illegally. No laws would have prevented this. This man broke many laws. If it were a matter of enacting new laws these things would never happen as bad or sick people will continue to break them.

I guess next it will somehow be President Trump's fault.

One thing I will set strait. Fully Automated Weapons are not illegal in the US. They are however very heavenly regulated. They are considered a class 3 weapon. Must be sold by a Class 3 Gun Dealer and require a special Tax Stamp directly from the ATF. They are also extremely expensive. $10K expensive. You will not find what he had in your local gun store. Yiu will be heavily investigated before you will own one. Which brings me to my next point, this proves that regulating weapons does not work. You have to change society which is really sick now.

[manaboutown]

One thing I will set strait. Fully Automated Weapons are not illegal in the US. They are however very heavenly regulated. They are considered a class 3 weapon. Must be sold by a Class 3 Gun Dealer and require a special Tax Stamp directly from the ATF. They are also extremely expensive. $10K expensive. You will not find what he had in your local gun store. Yiu will be heavily investigated before you will own one. Which brings me to my next point, this proves that regulating weapons does not work. You have to change society which is really sick now.

:beer3:

[Steve9930]

Calm down ,my man. Again deal with reality. Semi auto weapons that can be bought throughtout the country leagally can be easily converted to automatic. Also the gun show loop hole is a glaring example where laws can be effective.

They cannot be converted easily to full automatic.

[graciegirl]

If one were to base legislation on your rationale, we may as well not have any laws as the only ones obeying them would be your so-called "good guys." That is naive and simplistic.

YES it is. And true. I have no guns. No one in our family has guns, but I do believe in the right to own them. I might change my mind if this place is invaded by bad people with guns. Right now only good ones have guns.

Red is right as usual. (And by the way she has a gun) This was a discussion of the hundreds of people in families who must face a future living with the murder of their loved one. There are no words to console them. No words.

[Steve9930]

If Sandy Hook where children were slaughtered didn't change the discussion, this won't either. One of the few actual pieces of legislation that has been passed by this congress and signed by this president was to eliminate a rule to keep weapons out the hands of those deemed incompetent, which would not have prevented this event. But it shows our priorities. For further evidence see the election eve rally of Senator to be Roy Moore of Alabama and the bill working its way thru Congress now to deregulate silencers so shooters can fire and not have their gunshots heard. Big need for that.

You can easily make a silencer using a common automotive engine oil filter.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

One thing I will set strait. Fully Automated Weapons are not illegal in the US. They are however very heavenly regulated. They are considered a class 3 weapon. Must be sold by a Class 3 Gun Dealer and require a special Tax Stamp directly from the ATF. They are also extremely expensive. $10K expensive. You will not find what he had in your local gun store. Yiu will be heavily investigated before you will own one. Which brings me to my next point, this proves that regulating weapons does not work. You have to change society which is really sick now.

That's why I used the term "pretty much" illegal. As you point out, they are extremely difficult and expensive to obtain.

However, the latest news is that he had an AR-15 or several AR-15s that had been converted from semi to fully auto. That makes a lot more sense.

The only solution to this problem is, as you point out, changing society or changing our culture.

[Steve9930]

When the next mass death in Europe or here perpetrated by a Muslim happens, will you and others not be correct to mention the underlying factors that made that next event happen? That the ready availability of teaching from radicalizing Islamic websites and persons had a role in the event? And if the President and the Congress cry out for solutions to lessen the likelihood of it happening again, should we not have that discussion? But apparently not this time, when it is a clear situation where if the Brady Law had remained in place and enforced or even strengthened this might not have happened.

This is not a time for prayer from me. Too bad God didn't protect everyone there. It is time again, and again, and again to point out the death grip the gun industry has on our politicians and the resulting deaths that come from poor policy. And today in American another 90 people will die from gunshots. And tomorrow, and the next day. Yes the blame goes to the shooter, but that does not mean there are no changes that can be made to prevent the next man. Fortunately we didn't just say the drunk driver is the cause of his road carnage. We changed the law to make it harder for the next driver to commit the same crime.

Las Vegas gun show 2016

And drunk drivers still commit the crime. Sometimes several times. The Brady Law did nothing to curb gun violence. Gun violence is a sickness of our current society. The gentleman is right lets quit arguing about Gun Laws that do not work and lets sit and comfort our fellow citizens.

[Steve9930]

The fact is that this guy used a fully automatic weapon which is pretty much illegal to own in this country. I would guess that he procured it through some kind of illegal means.



Nevada is an open-carry state, and automatic weapons are legal there.

The state of Nevada cannot dictate Automatic Weapon Ownership. Its a class 3 weapon highly regulated by the ATF.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Calm down ,my man. Again deal with reality. Semi auto weapons that can be bought throughtout the country leagally can be easily converted to automatic. Also the gun show loop hole is a glaring example where laws can be effective.

It's not so easy to convert semi-autos to full auto. Besides, it's already illegal to do so. Another example of how LAWS DON'T PREVENT CRIMES! We have a law that makes it illegal to convert a semi-auto to a full auto and this guy broke the law.

Are you suggesting that all semi-automatic guns be banned? Because that would mean about 80% of all guns that exist today.

There is no gun show loophole. It's a myth perpetrated by the left.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

The fact is that this guy used a fully automatic weapon which is pretty much illegal to own in this country. I would guess that he procured it through some kind of illegal means.



Nevada is an open-carry state, and automatic weapons are legal there.

Automatic weapons are banned in all states by federal law. Nevada cannot supersede federal law.

[manaboutown]

Turns out he lived in Sun City Mesquite. I wonder if his neighbors noticed him toting large boxes or cases into and out of his house. Last I read he had 19 rifles in his hotel room. More guns have been found in his house.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Automatic weapons are banned in all states by federal law. Nevada cannot supersede federal law.

Sorry, they are not technically banned, but they are heavily regulated and extremely expensive to obtain. They are for all intents and purposes banned.

[Steve9930]

That's why I used the term "pretty much" illegal. As you point out, they are extremely difficult and expensive to obtain.

However, the latest news is that he had an AR-15 or several AR-15s that had been converted from semi to fully auto. That makes a lot more sense.

The only solution to this problem is, as you point out, changing society or changing our culture.

I would not believe anything about converting to automatic until the investigation releases it. Those parts are still class 3. And extremely expensive. You can buy a silencer also but that also is class 3. Anything class 3 is highly regulated. You can buy the auto bolt but that does not make it auto. The bolt is also a class 3 device and regulated. Here's something no one will like to here. The age of computer manufacturing is now affordable and can be done in your home. You also do not need to be a mechanical engineer to produce your own weapon. For a few thousand dollars I can make an assault rifle semi-auto or fully auto all with equipment purchased over the internet. With some steal stock and a little prepackaged software and the milling equipment it can be done relatively easily. So how do you legislate that from happening. Its obviously this guy was intent on killing lots of people. We all have opinions on this some based on facts and some on falsie. Today we are upset about what happened in Las Vegas but we ignore the fact that we as a society do not put much value on life. We let the killing fields of Chicago go on and on and we kill millions of unborn children for our personal convenience. Until we change that attitude you can expect this to continue no matter what laws are passed.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

If one were to base legislation on your rationale, we may as well not have any laws as the only ones obeying them would be your so-called "good guys." That is naive and simplistic.

The purpose of laws is to define what is legal and not legal and to punish those convicted of breaking them. Laws do not prevent crimes if people are bent on committing them and are willing to risk being prosecuted and punished.

In the case of the Las Vegas shooter, it appears that he was planning on taking his life so he had nothing to lose. No law was going to stop him. In all probability, the guns he had were illegal or made illegal through an illegal process. None of the laws that he broke stopped this crime from happening.

[Bellaboy]

Smoking? Illegal. Cocaine? Illegal. Semi-automatic weapons? No problem.

[billethkid]

Smoking? Illegal. Cocaine? Illegal. Semi-automatic weapons? No problem.

Add this to the list of selective enforcement issues:

Sneaking into the country without proper documentation or processing? Illegal.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Smoking? Illegal. Cocaine? Illegal. Semi-automatic weapons? No problem.

Do you understand the difference between a fully automatic gun and a semi-automatic gun?

Almost all guns being carried today are basically semi-automatic. What that means is that each time you pull the trigger a bullet is fired. You don't have to pull a bolt or recock it or take any other action. Although they're not technically in the category, revolvers are basically semi-automatic.

Are you calling for the banning of all guns? You do know that people who want guns would still get them even if they were all banned.

And I would guess that smoking and cocaine kill more people than semi-automatic guns.

[Aloha1]

My heartfelt condolences to all who lost a loved one in Las Vegas. And pride in all those who, without regard for their own life, rushed to aid their fellow Americans without regard to their color or religious belief. Sort of makes the NFL player "protest" look like a temper tantrum.

[Aloha1]

:bigbow::bigbow:Do you understand the difference between a fully automatic gun and a semi-automatic gun?

Almost all guns being carried today are basically semi-automatic. What that means is that each time you pull the trigger a bullet is fired. You don't have to pull a bolt or recock it or take any other action. Although they're not technically in the category, revolvers are basically semi-automatic.

Are you calling for the banning of all guns? You do know that people who want guns would still get them even if they were all banned.

:bigbow:

[Taltarzac725]

There are hints that these were two machine guns mounted on tripods. How the hell would be get a hold of these and get them into a hotel room?

[Bellaboy]

If I die from cigarettes and cocaine, clearly that's my fault. But if I'm murdered by someone with a gun, whose fault is that?. Non smokers wanted to be safe from the effects of secondhand smoke, I want to be safe from people with guns. I want my grandchildren to be safe at school. Most of the animals are already dead or on the brink of extinction anyway, what're you gonna hunt? Do you realize how this looks to the rest of the civilized world?

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

If I die from cigarettes and cocaine, clearly that's my fault. But if I'm murdered by someone with a gun, whose fault is that?. Non smokers wanted to be safe from the effects of secondhand smoke, I want to be safe from people with guns. I want my grandchildren to be safe at school. Most of the animals are already dead or on the brink of extinction anyway, what're you gonna hunt? Do you realize how this looks to the rest of the civilized world?

Cigarettes and cocaine have never saved anyone's life. Guns have.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Turns out he lived in Sun City Mesquite. I wonder if his neighbors noticed him toting large boxes or cases into and out of his house. Last I read he had 19 rifles in his hotel room. More guns have been found in his house.

If it's anything like The Villages, most people have a garage so the neighbors wouldn't have seen anything.

[Bellaboy]

How do guns save lives? (Besides war)

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

How do guns save lives? (Besides war)

There are many incidents every year where a gun is used in self-defense. There are also incidents that don't get reported where a gun is drawn in defense of a threat and the threat goes away.

The purpose of a handgun is self-defense and the defense of those around the gun holder.

[Steve9930]

Its amazing how someone breaks the law and all the misinformed want to make the law abiding take the blame. The man had an illegal gun. One that is highly regulated and controlled. Or he used modern technology to modify a weapon to make it illegal. This incident proves beyond a shadow of a doubt Laws will not work to solve this problem. Once everyone realizes that fact we can then move to solve the problem. Freedom comes with risk. Sometimes some people will abuse those freedoms.

[Fredster]

There are hints that these were two machine guns mounted on tripods. How the hell would be get a hold of these and get them into a hotel room?

Hints? Why not wait until real facts are known and released?

[Steve9930]

Hints? Why not wait until real facts are known and released?

I agree. The only fact is it was automatic fire. Now I'd like to know how he was able to obtain the weapon or weapons. You just can't go down to the local gun shop and buy a fully automatic firearm.

[kcrazorbackfan]

The original post of this massacre should not be a stage for political "what ifs"; 59+ families are never going to be with a member of their family again and 500+ families have a member of their family with a long road of mental and physical recovery ahead of them.

Being a retired LEO, I know what both groups of families have ahead of them; pray for the Police Officers, pray for the EMT's, pray for the hospital staffs, pray for the survivors and most of all, pray for the victims and their families. :pray:

[Schaumburger]

The original post of this massacre should not be a stage for political "what ifs"; 59+ families are never going to be with a member of their family again and 500+ families have a member of their family with a long road of mental and physical recovery ahead of them.

Being a retired LEO, I know what both groups of families have ahead of them; pray for the Police Officers, pray for the EMT's, pray for the hospital staffs, pray for the survivors and most of all, pray for the victims and their families. :pray:

I agree. Concert goers, movie goers, school children, college students, shoppers, people just living their lives . . . how do we as a society get this to end?

[ColdNoMore]

I agree. Concert goers, movie goers, school children, college students, shoppers, people just living their lives . . . how do we as a society get this to end?

I believe the first step in figuring out how to stop this type of horrific occurrence, is trying to determine the motivation of this person.

Hopefully, something will be found...on why he did it.

There's no question that he had a reason (regardless of how warped or unjustified)...but that's no guarantee that we will ever know for sure.

Then the hard part comes when we, as a society, come together and agree...on what steps to take to try and minimize the chances of it occurring again. :(

[Taltarzac725]

I believe the first step in figuring out how to stop this type of horrific occurrence, is trying to determine the motivation of this person.

Hopefully, something will be found...on why he did it.

There's no question that he had a reason (regardless of how warped or unjustified)...but that's no guarantee that we will ever know for sure.

Then the hard part comes when we, as a society, come together and agree...on what steps to take to try and minimize the chances of it occurring again. :(

He may not have had any motive other than to kill as many people as possible. Some people are just extremely warped. Maybe his autopsy will reveal something or his communications? FBI investigates Reno house owned by shooting suspect (http://www.kolotv.com/content/news/RPD-not-involved-in-investigation-into-Vegas-shooting-suspect-449079193.html) Looks like he has a home in a golf community west of Reno, Nevada. It appears he was extremely well off.

[graciegirl]

The guy have a 400,000$ home in a retirement community :(

He was a multi-millionaire, a professional gambler and had many real estate holdings. His father was on the FBI most wanted list for eight years after escaping prison for bank robberies.

Stephen Paddock is an enigma and his motivation may never be uncovered. He robbed innocent people of their lives and harmed seriously other people who were enjoying a country music event.. I cannot find any reason not to loathe him.

Awful. Heartbreaking. Senseless. So many, many people suffering.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

If Sandy Hook where children were slaughtered didn't change the discussion, this won't either. One of the few actual pieces of legislation that has been passed by this congress and signed by this president was to eliminate a rule to keep weapons out the hands of those deemed incompetent, which would not have prevented this event. But it shows our priorities. For further evidence see the election eve rally of Senator to be Roy Moore of Alabama and the bill working its way thru Congress now to deregulate silencers so shooters can fire and not have their gunshots heard. Big need for that.

The legislation to which you refer would have prevented anyone receiving Social Security and who used an intermediary to help them with financial matters when dealing with the SS Administration from obtaining a firearm.

We always have to look into the details of bills that are passed. The name and what we are told they are are often misleading.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I would not believe anything about converting to automatic until the investigation releases it. Those parts are still class 3. And extremely expensive. You can buy a silencer also but that also is class 3. Anything class 3 is highly regulated. You can buy the auto bolt but that does not make it auto. The bolt is also a class 3 device and regulated. Here's something no one will like to here. The age of computer manufacturing is now affordable and can be done in your home. You also do not need to be a mechanical engineer to produce your own weapon. For a few thousand dollars I can make an assault rifle semi-auto or fully auto all with equipment purchased over the internet. With some steal stock and a little prepackaged software and the milling equipment it can be done relatively easily. So how do you legislate that from happening. Its obviously this guy was intent on killing lots of people. We all have opinions on this some based on facts and some on falsie. Today we are upset about what happened in Las Vegas but we ignore the fact that we as a society do not put much value on life. We let the killing fields of Chicago go on and on and we kill millions of unborn children for our personal convenience. Until we change that attitude you can expect this to continue no matter what laws are passed.

It's been reported on at least three different networks that he had multiple AR-15 that had not only been converted to fully automatic but also converted from .223 ammo to .308.

I agree with you that I don't usually listen to reports until all the information is in, but the fact that three different networks provided the same information that was said to come from a Nevada police representative and the fact that the information was so detailed, I tend to think that this is true.

[rivaridger1]

There is " evil " in this world with no scientific evidence of its existence. This individual's mind was warped in some fashion and he was somehow motivated by something to do this most heinous act. It is likely we will never know exactly why. According to the " news " this morning he had ten suitcases in his room and a legal semi-automatic weapon ( an AK-47 ) which had been modified to be fully automatic. Presumably the long guns were broken down and brought into the room in those suitcases. It is obvious, with the brilliance associated with 20-20 hindsight, a security device at the hotels entrance through which all luggage is passed, would have detected these rifles without violating anyone's constitutional rights. Visit most of the corporate skyscrapers in New York and other major cities, and just about any Federal/State government facilities, and you will see them being used. They are also used at many public, venues and at all NFL and MLB stadiums. Should there be mandatory security at any building to which the public has access taller then ??? stories ( make it any number you want to ) ? It would be something fairly easy to enforce with building codes and while expensive, quite affordable in the scheme of things by the owners of these buildings. Even better, no ones constitutional rights are violated. Let's concentrate on the things we can do as a society to prevent a repeat of this event and also think outside the box and try to be smarter then the next " evil " person who decides to commit something similar to what this loon accomplished. Yes, it involves the expenditure of money and probably a lot of it. My thinking is that it is worth every dollar if one life is saved in the future.

[Steve9930]

It's been reported on at least three different networks that he had multiple AR-15 that had not only been converted to fully automatic but also converted from .223 ammo to .308.

I agree with you that I don't usually listen to reports until all the information is in, but the fact that three different networks provided the same information that was said to come from a Nevada police representative and the fact that the information was so detailed, I tend to think that this is true.

Now some facts: Can you convert an AR15 to full auto? Yes. Is it legal? No. Can you do it for $50 like the network said? No. Is it easily done? Depends on your skill. It requires changing the bolt carrier which you can buy. That part alone is $100 but still does not make it full auto. However the auto sear necessary to make it full auto to drop into the lower unit does not fit into an AR15. You have to re-machine the lower unit. Also that auto sear is a class 3 device that would have to be manufactured before 1986 to be legal. Its highly regulated by ATF. So how did this jerk do it. I suspect he manufactured his own or purchased it illegally. Changing caliber is a piece of cake. You just buy a new upper assemble. That part is not regulated. The part that makes the weapon work is the lower unit. Its the regulated part of the weapon. The components inside the lower unit determine if its semi or auto fire. What this proves to me is this was planned for a long time. He was intent on killing as many people as possible. 308 vs 223 proves he wanted to be as deadly as possible. 308 is basically a 7.62 round associated which is AK47 caliber. Much more devastating then the 223. Yes it appears law enforcement has confirmed he had modified ARs into full auto. Doable but not easily. Also highly illegal. When some one wants to kill laws are not a deterrent. My questions are this: With all those weapons in the room why did not someone say something? With as deranged as this man had to be, there were no signs he was crazy? I just find that very hard to believe.

[Taltarzac725]

There is " evil " in this world with no scientific evidence of its existence. This individual's mind was warped in some fashion and he was somehow motivated by something to do this most heinous act. It is likely we will never know exactly why. According to the " news " this morning he had ten suitcases in his room and a legal semi-automatic weapon ( an AK-47 ) which had been modified to be fully automatic. Presumably the long guns were broken down and brought into the room in those suitcases. It is obvious, with the brilliance associated with 20-20 hindsight, a security device at the hotels entrance through which all luggage is passed, would have detected these rifles without violating anyone's constitutional rights. Visit most of the corporate skyscrapers in New York and other major cities, and just about any Federal/State government facilities, and you will see them being used. They are also used at many public, venues and at all NFL and MLB stadiums. Should there be mandatory security at any building to which the public has access taller then ??? stories ( make it any number you want to ) ? It would be something fairly easy to enforce with building codes and while expensive, quite affordable in the scheme of things by the owners of these buildings. Even better, no ones constitutional rights are violated. Let's concentrate on the things we can do as a society to prevent a repeat of this event and also think outside the box and try to be smarter then the next " evil " person who decides to commit something similar to what this loon accomplished. Yes, it involves the expenditure of money and probably a lot of it. My thinking is that it is worth every dollar if one life is saved in the future.

We all should be trying to think of ways to stop the next monster from doing his or her evil deeds. This man looked just like some very successful retiree but whoever could do something like this must have shown some signs of being capable of such evil actions as this. One thing. Do not hold concerts where there is an elevated perch of some kind available for some nut with military style weapons.

[Steve9930]

There is " evil " in this world with no scientific evidence of its existence. This individual's mind was warped in some fashion and he was somehow motivated by something to do this most heinous act. It is likely we will never know exactly why. According to the " news " this morning he had ten suitcases in his room and a legal semi-automatic weapon ( an AK-47 ) which had been modified to be fully automatic. Presumably the long guns were broken down and brought into the room in those suitcases. It is obvious, with the brilliance associated with 20-20 hindsight, a security device at the hotels entrance through which all luggage is passed, would have detected these rifles without violating anyone's constitutional rights. Visit most of the corporate skyscrapers in New York and other major cities, and just about any Federal/State government facilities, and you will see them being used. They are also used at many public, venues and at all NFL and MLB stadiums. Should there be mandatory security at any building to which the public has access taller then ??? stories ( make it any number you want to ) ? It would be something fairly easy to enforce with building codes and while expensive, quite affordable in the scheme of things by the owners of these buildings. Even better, no ones constitutional rights are violated. Let's concentrate on the things we can do as a society to prevent a repeat of this event and also think outside the box and try to be smarter then the next " evil " person who decides to commit something similar to what this loon accomplished. Yes, it involves the expenditure of money and probably a lot of it. My thinking is that it is worth every dollar if one life is saved in the future.

Where did the AK info come from? The reason I asked is as I heard the tape the first thought that came to my mind was, "That sounded like an AK on full auto". It a sound once heard you do not forget.

[Wiotte]

We all should be trying to think of ways to stop the next monster from doing his or her evil deeds. This man looked just like some very successful retiree but whoever could do something like this must have shown some signs of being capable of such evil actions as this. One thing. Do not hold concerts where there is an elevated perch of some kind available for some nut with military style weapons.



Genetics may have played a part in his actions. His father was on the FBI most wanted list. Personality is not always shaped by upbringing, dna plays into it as well. The criminal mind can manifest itself in many different ways.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Taltarzac725]

Genetics may have played a part in his actions. His father was on the FBI most wanted list. Personality is not always shaped by upbringing, dna plays into it as well. The criminal mind can manifest itself in many different ways.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes. I recall that. That is a dark road to go down though. That genetics dictates future behavior.

I went though many of my clients files while a student lawyer at the U of MN Law School if I had their permission to do so. I was wondering what had put them in Minnesota Correctional Facility-- Stillwater. Some of them looked like basically just bad people others seemed to have made a bad choice at some point.

I had a lot of talks like this with a man whom I worked under who ran concession stands in and around Reno and Carson City. He became the Warden of the Lovelock Correctional Facility where OJ Simpson just left. He retired a while ago though. Probably before or slightly after OJ Simpson got there. Simpson looks like someone with little impulse control. Snaps when he is not in control of things he wants to dictate.

Looking out for one another seems to be the best answer while informed with the best information available.

My former employer who became the Warden I remember did like to research various issues of crime and punishment.

[graciegirl]

Genetics may have played a part in his actions. His father was on the FBI most wanted list. Personality is not always shaped by upbringing, dna plays into it as well. The criminal mind can manifest itself in many different ways.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have been thinking that might be a possibility, too. I wonder too, if the father who escaped prison for eight years and was on the FBI most wanted list for that time was with his children when he was hiding from the law..........

[Madelaine Amee]

Ticker Tape along the bottom of the picture on CNN at noon today said the shooter was gambling UPWARDS of $30,000 per DAY. I don't care how many millions he supposedly had, it does not take long to get through millions if you are blowing away $30,000 a day! Although, there was no mention of whether he was losing or winning.

Also, he had sued one of the Casinos for an accident he had, shown on film, outside one of the stores. He lost the case and still owed a considerable amount of money for his legal bills and the Casino were awarded costs. I believe the number mentioned was hundreds of thousands, that could be wrong, the tape moves very quickly.

To my simple mind, this would seem like the beginnings of a reason for his state of mind - he may have reached bottom and was not going alone.

[manaboutown]

I am wondering about many facets here: his genetics, his upbringing, his Malasian-Australian girlfriend, how he acquired and modified so many weapons, how he got them into his hotel room(s?) and kept them there several days, his feelings about his father (Bingo Bruce, Chromedome, Old Baldy) and whether he wanted to become more infamous than his old man. I find it hard to believe he was a regular big winner at gambling as well. He may have been facing financial ruin.

[graciegirl]

I am wondering about many facets here: his genetics, his upbringing, his Malasian-Australian girlfriend, how he acquired and modified so many weapons, how he got them into his hotel room(s?) and kept them there several days, his feelings about his father (Bingo Bruce, Chromedome, Old Baldy) and whether he wanted to become more infamous than his old man. I find it hard to believe he was a regular big winner at gambling as well. He may have been facing financial ruin.

I don't know if it makes a difference but I saw Marilou Danley's Facebook page before it was removed. She is one of four sisters and her mother was still alive in several pictures and they appeared to share a close family relationship and spoke to each other in Tagalog which I believe to be is a language used in The Phillipines. She showed pictures of her little grandchild and they all seemed very nice and ordinary.

Not useful information at all, but I wondered if she might have ended the relationship. She is 62 and looked very youthful. None of this is relevant. Just musings.

[Henryk]

One thing I will set strait. Fully Automated Weapons are not illegal in the US. They are however very heavenly regulated. ...

"Heavenly" regulated. There's a whopper if I ever heard one.

[Steve9930]

"Heavenly" regulated. There's a whopper if I ever heard one.

Old age slip, what can I say.

[big guy]

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to blame guns and the President.

The fact is that this guy used a fully automatic weapon which is pretty much illegal to own in this country. I would guess that he procured it through some kind of illegal means.

Laws don't prevent crimes. Gun control laws do not prevent people from getting guns illegally. No laws would have prevented this. This man broke many laws. If it were a matter of enacting new laws these things would never happen as bad or sick people will continue to break them.

I guess next it will somehow be President Trump's fault.

If we can't blame guns should we blame knives? Your is statement is ludicrous.

[rivaridger1]

Tonight on the " news " I learned two things. One or two of his guns were modified with a " bump stock " which allows a semi-automatic rifle to sound like and simulate an automatic rifle. These devices are completely legal and inexpensive in the scheme of things. The debate on whether they should be belongs elsewhere. Someone also said this individual was a " Narcissist " which sort of fits with what we know about him to date. While a layman, when it come to psychology, this means to me that he has never given one thought through his entire life to anyone but himself. While pure speculation, his motivation could have been as simple as to go down in history as a mass murderer.

[big guy]

:agree:Calm down ,my man. Again deal with reality. Semi auto weapons that can be bought throughtout the country leagally can be easily converted to automatic. Also the gun show loop hole is a glaring example where laws can be effective.

:agree::agree::agree:

[big guy]

I am a retired Las Vegas police officer. I have a friend and former co-worker that was there, working the concert and helped get people to safety. Fortunately, God was protecting him and he was unharmed. I've heard two officers are among the fatalities and at least two more injured, one critically. I can't even process the suffering and grief of everyone involved. Please keep comments of blame for gun control or politics to yourself or your private conversations. The blame for this event lies with the individual and the psychopathy and hate in his heart. Pray for all the victims and their loved ones.

The ease with which to get guns should share part of the blame!!!

[big guy]

When the next mass death in Europe or here perpetrated by a Muslim happens, will you and others not be correct to mention the underlying factors that made that next event happen? That the ready availability of teaching from radicalizing Islamic websites and persons had a role in the event? And if the President and the Congress cry out for solutions to lessen the likelihood of it happening again, should we not have that discussion? But apparently not this time, when it is a clear situation where if the Brady Law had remained in place and enforced or even strengthened this might not have happened.

This is not a time for prayer from me. Too bad God didn't protect everyone there. It is time again, and again, and again to point out the death grip the gun industry has on our politicians and the resulting deaths that come from poor policy. And today in American another 90 people will die from gunshots. And tomorrow, and the next day. Yes the blame goes to the shooter, but that does not mean there are no changes that can be made to prevent the next man. Fortunately we didn't just say the drunk driver is the cause of his road carnage. We changed the law to make it harder for the next driver to commit the same crime.

Las Vegas gun show 2016

:BigApplause:

[big guy]

Well, they are not legal in Mexico but look at the killings down there.

We don't live in Mexico.

[big guy]

And drunk drivers still commit the crime. Sometimes several times. The Brady Law did nothing to curb gun violence. Gun violence is a sickness of our current society. The gentleman is right lets quit arguing about Gun Laws that do not work and lets sit and comfort our fellow citizens.

How much "Prayers and condolences" can we send? It's hollow, it means nothing now.

[Steve9930]

How much "Prayers and condolences" can we send? It's hollow, it means nothing now.

Only hollow if you don't believe in being part of something bigger then yourself.

[Steve9930]

Only in the USA would we argue about passing legislation to try and stop a .003% problem while 99.997% is not a problem.

[Polar Bear]

How much "Prayers and condolences" can we send? It's hollow, it means nothing now.
Tell that to the families who've lost loved ones.

[manaboutown]

We don't live in Mexico.

Press one for English...

[xNYer]

Only in the USA would we argue about passing legislation to try and stop a .003% problem while 99.997% is not a problem.

Why try to prevent killings when so few people are murdererers. Is that the essence of what you are saying? In other countries they would no be so foolish?

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Tonight on the " news " I learned two things. One or two of his guns were modified with a " bump stock " which allows a semi-automatic rifle to sound like and simulate an automatic rifle. These devices are completely legal and inexpensive in the scheme of things. The debate on whether they should be belongs elsewhere. Someone also said this individual was a " Narcissist " which sort of fits with what we know about him to date. While a layman, when it come to psychology, this means to me that he has never given one thought through his entire life to anyone but himself. While pure speculation, his motivation could have been as simple as to go down in history as a mass murderer.

I am pretty much against adding more laws to the books that only serve to make it more difficult and expensive for good, responsible law-abiding citizen to buy guns. But one thing that I wouldn't object to would be making the sale and ownership of bump stocks illegal. Although they don't technically turn a semi-automatic weapon fully automatic, they basically serve the same purpose.

But even at that, people would still get bump stocks if they wanted one. Unless the manufacture of them was made illegal they would still exist. Even with that, I'm sure that there are some people that would learn to build their own.

The problem that I see with this kind of weapon is that it gives criminals an advantage over police, armed security guards and private citizens that choose to carry for protection.

[manaboutown]

And the plot thickens Paddock'''s Girlfriend Used Two Social Security Numbers and Was Married to Two Men at the Same Time (https://www.yahoo.com/news/paddock-apos-girlfriend-used-two-230002037.html)

[Taltarzac725]

And the plot thickens Paddock'''s Girlfriend Used Two Social Security Numbers and Was Married to Two Men at the Same Time (https://www.yahoo.com/news/paddock-apos-girlfriend-used-two-230002037.html)

That is strange. I wonder if people will want to change the name of Paddock Square here in the Villages or just thumb their noses at fate like I do with birthdays (long story)? We do not want evil people stealing the connotations of words and their importance to us. Thumb your noses at such creeps.

[billethkid]

Only in the USA would we argue about passing legislation to try and stop a .003% problem while 99.997% is not a problem.

100% accurate assessment of the problems plaguing our country today.

Isolated incidents are made out to be general conditions, minority both race and number groups treated as a majority issue/institution, special interest groups (big $$$$ political contributors) getting benefits when they represent a less than 10% entity.

Excellent post.

[Steve9930]

Why try to prevent killings when so few people are murdererers. Is that the essence of what you are saying? In other countries they would no be so foolish?

Not at all. Las Vegas horrible tragedy, heart wrenching. But just an average Chicago weekend. Where's the outrage every night about what goes on in Chicago, Detroit, or even closer Orlando? Gun violence is a problem, a serious one. But what's the first thing you hear, Gun Control. Guns have been in society for years but this level of violence has not.

[graciegirl]

Why try to prevent killings when so few people are murdererers. Is that the essence of what you are saying? In other countries they would no be so foolish?

I think no one quarrels with the fact that guns kill people and should not be used to kill people unless those people are trying to kill us or our families.

No argument at all from anyone I have ever talked to.
I also have never in my almost eighty years met anyone who was a murderer, (well one, but that is another story and he didn't want to kill me or mine and I didn't know he would be a murderer when I dealt with him in business)

The point of passing legislation that would unarm everyone, take their guns (by the way, I don't have any) take guns away from everyone except people who are armed to protect the citizenry...

Or only allowing guns for people to skeet shoot or hunt for game. Or passing laws that no one is allowed to carry guns or own them unless a, b, or c.

Is that the people who use guns to take things from others, to intimidate others, to protect themselves from other people who might take the drugs they are marketing or the people they are marketing, are not likely to be conscientious enough to say they have guns and give them up.

Only people with very loving hearts and slightly unrealistic attitudes about how the world works and how people act will NOTsee that this is locking the barn door after the horses are gone.

That ship has sailed. We have a lot of armed people, both good, bad and some who might just fall apart tomorrow and do a mass shooting. Good things are not simple.

Perhaps I am missing something. HOW would your gun law read???? In other countries guns are not owned by a good many Toms, Dicks and Marys like the are here in the U.S. HOW would your law read????

[Mrs. Robinson]

Correct me if I am wrong. Are guns legal to own in Chicago? I don't have a gun, but I am glad my neighbors do. If a law were passed to limit ownership of guns, only the good guys would obey the law. THAT is the reality. I think there are two ways to look at things and two ways to vote. What sounds nice and what really happens.

You don't have a gun but are glad your neighbors do??? Huh?

Sorry, but limited guns is not the reality, even if ownership of guns was limited.

There is more to it than that -- much more!

[manaboutown]

Does anyone else see the brother as a bit glib and untroubled by what happened?

Too, the so called girlfriend lawyering up seems suspicious to me. She has quite a history, two SS nos., being simultaneously married to two different men...

[Mrs. Robinson]

They say the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
There's a lot of truth in that.

Steven Paddock's father was on the FBI's Ten Most Wanted List for a series of robberies and for trying to run down an FBI agent.
He was said to be psychotic.

Paddock's brother, Eric, supposedly deals in marijuana and methamphetamines.
I don't know if this allegation has been substantiated.
What I do know is the he has shown no overt emotion in the death of his brother, the victims of the shooting or those who were injured.

They all seem to have a screw loose, i.e., the possibility of the predisposition of a genetic abnormality -- otherwise known as nut jobs.
There is much we will never know about this senseless tragedy.

[Vectra]

I probably see this differently to most people here but believe there is no reason why anyone needs or should have any type of automatic weapon be it semi or otherwise, these can be taken out of circulation by a change in the law and reduce the death toll significantly seen all over the country.

There are no valid arguments about second amendment rights and citizens freedoms that justify the current situation where mass shooting of large groups of people are so easy to perpetrate by any member of the public that might be a perfectly law abiding citizen one day and have a breakdown the next.

The reason I see it differently is because I am not American but English and have lived through the change of gun laws in the UK where just 2 mass killings was enough for the government of the time to act and abolish just about all guns in circulation and have seen no mass shooting since.

I currently live in Spain where similar strict gun laws make gun crime something that you just don’t think about, it happens but in such small numbers it’s not given a thought and personal safety is almost guaranteed with violent crime again minimal even in parts of towns and city’s that may not be the best.

I now own a house near the Villages and love everything about it and enjoy my time spent there and the friends I have made but am more than aware that shootings are happening at least once a month sometimes weekly within a few miles of my home there and consciously go home before the bad guys come out each evening and am slightly on edge in situations that I would never be in Europe.

Someone needs to have the balls to stand up to the NRA and say enough’s enough and that this type of carnage can and needs to be brought to an end for all the thousands of innocent people who have lost their lives so needlessly over the last few years and for all those who will lose their lives in the future if something isn’t done.

[Schaumburger]

Correct me if I am wrong. Are guns legal to own in Chicago? I don't have a gun, but I am glad my neighbors do. If a law were passed to limit ownership of guns, only the good guys would obey the law. THAT is the reality. I think there are two ways to look at things and two ways to vote. What sounds nice and what really happens.

Handgun ownership has been legal in the City of Chicago since 2010 per a U.S. Supreme Court ruling. Gun sales are "banned" in the City of Chicago (notice I put banned in parentheses as the real situation is much different. If you are a Chicago resident and wish to legally purchase a handgun, you must go to the suburbs to make your purchase. Handgun owners in the City of Chicago must also get an Illinois Firearm Owners ID card, complete a firearms safety course, get a City of Chicago Firearms Permit and then register the firearm with the City of Chicago. Do all handgun owners in Chicago follow the city's handgun ordinance requirements...of course not.

From Time Out Chicago's web site:

In June, 2010 the U.S. Supreme Court issued a ruling that effectively, and instantly, shot down Chicago’s 28-year-old handgun ban. The opinion, issued by a narrow 5-4 majority, said the Second Amendment protects the right to own a handgun for self-defense, a decision that overrides state and municipal restrictions. Otis McDonald, a South Side septuagenarian and the namesake plaintiff in McDonald v. Chicago, was among several local petitioners in the suit sponsored by the Second Amendment Foundation and the Illinois State Rifle Association. McDonald argued he had the right to protect himself and his family in his Morgan Park neighborhood, which he described as crime ridden.

“The number of Chicago homicide victims during the current year [2010] equaled the number of American soldiers killed during that same period in Afghanistan and Iraq,” justice Samuel Alito wrote in the majority opinion. “If safety of…law abiding members of the community would be enhanced by the possession of handguns in the home for self-defense, then the Second Amendment right protects the rights of minorities and other residents of high-crime areas whose needs are not being met by elected public officials.”

[Schaumburger]

This past August, the gunman also reserved rooms at Chicago's Blackstone Hotel which overlooks the 4 day Lollapalooza music festival. Lollapalooza draws about 100,000 people per day to Chicago's Grant Park. The gunman did not actually stay at the hotel during this past August's Lollapalooza festival, according to the Blackstone.

[Taltarzac725]

This past August, the gunman also reserved rooms at Chicago's Blackstone Hotel which overlooks the 3 day Lollapalooza music festival, which draws about 100,000 people per day to Chicago's Grant Park. The gunman did not actually stay at the hotel during this past August's Lollapalooza festival, according to the Blackstone.

He was scoping out various cities for an attack. This man looks like he was very deliberative and not mentally ill. Just a very evil person. My friend told me that he hoped this man had a tumor that caused this as my friend could no understand how someone could do this.

With Chicago they have to address the gangs there which are connected to the lucrative drug trade. The guns are used to defend their turfs and further gang violence while many civilians get caught in the cross-fire or are out right targeted if they have some connection with the gang like a relative in one of them.

[Polar Bear]

...This man looks like he was very deliberative and not mentally ill...
A person can definitely be both.

[Taltarzac725]

A person can definitely be both.

Yes. But that has usually been diagnosed by that time and noticed by relatives, friends, co-workers and the like. John Forbes Nast was a brilliant thinker with serious mental health problems. A Beautiful Mind (film - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Beautiful_Mind_(film)))

John Forbes Nash Jr. - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Forbes_Nash_Jr).

There is no evidence so far that Steven Paddock was mentally ill. A great deal that he was extremely evil in nature.

[Taltarzac725]

An ex-Marine goes on a killing spree at the University of Texas - Aug 01, 1966 - HISTORY.com (http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/an-ex-marine-goes-on-a-killing-spree-at-the-university-of-texas)

I do remember that this man had some serious problems with his brain when he did this other tragic act by a sniper.

Some of the various news programs have mentioned this killer in their discussions of the Las Vegas mass murderer Steven Paddock.

[Polar Bear]

...There is no evidence so far that Steven Paddock was mentally ill...
Other than killing 59 people and wounding hundreds more? Yeah...no evidence at all.

[Taltarzac725]

Other than killing 59 people and wounding hundreds more? Yeah...no evidence at all.

Hitler and his henchmen killed at least 11 million people or so. Or contributed greatly to the war that created that mess and I do not believe any of those people were mentally ill. The Holocaust's Forgotten Victims: The 5 Million Non-Jewish People Killed By The Nazis | HuffPost (https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/27/holocaust-non-jewish-victims_n_6555604.html)

Heinrich Himmler - Military Leader - Biography.com (https://www.biography.com/people/heinrich-himmler-9339448)

[manaboutown]

Stalin killed what, 20,000,000 to 60,000,000? no one knows.

[Taltarzac725]

Stalin killed what, 20,000,000 to 60,000,000? no one knows.

I believe that the Nazis kept very meticulous records of their evil plan. Stalin was just acting according to whatever he felt threatened him and his State.

Has there been any word of mental illness on the part of Steven Paddock? I am not aware of any. The mystery of Stephen Paddock's brain - CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/05/opinions/mystery-of-stephen-paddocks-brain-opinion-eagleman/index.html)

And some people with mental illnesses of various kinds have made great works of art. Artists with mental illnesses (http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/22/world/gallery/artists-with-mental-illnesses/index.html)

[Polar Bear]

Hitler and his henchmen killed at least 11 million people or so. Or contributed greatly to the war that created that mess and I do not believe any of those people were mentally ill...
You have your definition. I have mine.

[graciegirl]

Good point, I wonder how long it will be before they disclose the wackadoodles autopsy results.

Autopsy results? What would you think they would be looking for? Perhaps drugs? Brain tumor?

I think this man acted alone. I think he had the time to set it all up, the money, and some kind of sick motivation. I think the prostitutes seen with him on his last days may be able to tell somebody something, but I think he was mad at the world. Dangerously mad at the world and may have had a genetic criminal tendency of some kind. His family is a little odd in my opinion.

But of course that could be said about most of our families.

[affald]

Autopsy results? What would you think they would be looking for? Perhaps drugs? Brain tumor?

I think this man acted alone. I think he had the time to set it all up, the money, and some kind of sick motivation. I think the prostitutes seen with him on his last days may be able to tell somebody something, but I think he was mad at the world. Dangerously mad at the world and may have had a genetic criminal tendency of some kind. His family is a little odd in my opinion.

But of course that could be said about most of our families.Wonder if he had obvious defects, maybe the warrior gene too.

[Taltarzac725]

Autopsy results? What would you think they would be looking for? Perhaps drugs? Brain tumor?

I think this man acted alone. I think he had the time to set it all up, the money, and some kind of sick motivation. I think the prostitutes seen with him on his last days may be able to tell somebody something, but I think he was mad at the world. Dangerously mad at the world and may have had a genetic criminal tendency of some kind. His family is a little odd in my opinion.

But of course that could be said about most of our families.

That sounds like a correct assessment. And I doubt if he would have told high-end call girls much of anything. They would have told someone having no loyalty to a man planning such carnage.

[Taltarzac725]

Las Vegas Shooter Was Known To Verbally Abuse His Girlfriend In Public | HuffPost (https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/stephen-paddock-abuse-girlfriend_us_59d40429e4b0218923e60bcc)

That seems to fit the profile of a serial killer. Someone who also uses words as weapons in a public setting.

[graciegirl]

Which made a lot of us wonder if Paddock's tendency toward criminality was inherited. His father left him when he was seven, but that would be enough time for imprinting his values or lack of them. The family seems somewhat un-social by the many descriptions I have read except the youngest Eric and he seemed a bit odd to me in his televised responses.

I found this article below that seems credible and it says that sociopathy is somewhat genetic. The shooter appeared to avoid being friendly with others at all. Sociopaths like Ted Bundy, often are charming, friendly and manipulative. I think killing a lot of people seems to indicate he had NO conscience. What is evil? What is mental illness? What can we learn from this at all?

Read this, just to further ponder this issue.

Understanding Genetics (http://genetics.thetech.org/ask-a-geneticist/sociopath-genetics) AND this;

The Sociopath Next Door - A detailed review (http://www.decision-making-confidence.com/the-sociopath-next-door.html)

[OhioBuckeye]

Without some kind of gun control , at least to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally disturbed and criminal element, we are going to see more and more of this. It's time to face reality on this subject.

I'm a gun owner & I have lots of guns, some registered, some not but I'm not going to go around & kill anyone. I agree we need some kind of gun control but the problem with that is, it'll be just a start to make it even stricter & before long nobody will have any guns. Guns aren't the problem because I've never had any of my guns walk out of the house & shoot anyone. Our problem is PEOPLE & the sick people that get them. To a criminal or sick person, laws written on paper or made law doesn't mean nothing to a criminal that wants to kill people, they'll get a gun even if they take every single kind of gun away. Then these sick people will have no reason to just walk out into a crowd & start shooting, then who's going to stop them, some hero citizen that'll probably get shot, a cop that will take 20 mins. to get there. It's a very bad situation to decide how to stop it & laws written on paper isn't the answer:posting:

[Vectra]

You can start by banning all semi automatic weapons, nobody needs that type of firepower especially when they can so easily be made fully automatic as in this case.

No matter how many checks are made on a individual, anyone can change or flip in an instance.

Arguments about criminals not obeying the laws hold no water, if a felon knows he will go to prison for just being in possession of such a weapon then they will keep away from them and as time passes the chance of finding one will decrease.

Its a difficult discussion to be had but the status quo isn't working and you have to start somewhere.

[Polar Bear]

...Arguments about criminals not obeying the laws hold no water, if a felon knows he will go to prison for just being in possession of such a weapon then they will keep away from them...
Dream on.

[OhioBuckeye]

You can start by banning all semi automatic weapons, nobody needs that type of firepower especially when they can so easily be made fully automatic as in this case.

No matter how many checks are made on a individual, anyone can change or flip in an instance.

Arguments about criminals not obeying the laws hold no water, if a felon knows he will go to prison for just being in possession of such a weapon then they will keep away from them and as time passes the chance of finding one will decrease.

Its a difficult discussion to be had but the status quo isn't working and you have to start somewhere.

You're right the govt. or anyone could ban semi weapons but the trouble with that is, theirs thousands of them out there, maybe hundreds of thousands. Guns don't get old & quit working. There's your problem. As a gun owner I agree, but where I disagree, is if the govt. bans one weapon, that's just a start to start blaming another one, it just opens doors!

[Vectra]

There are thousands of semi automatic weapons which is why I say ban them, the longer this goes on the more guns are sold.

Again it´s not an argument to say there are too many to ban them or criminals will ignore the laws, of course this is the case but isn't an argument to do nothing which is what is always thrown back at anyone wanting to do something about the terrible waste of lives.

The only reason most people buy a gun is to protect themselves, you can do that with a handgun perfectly well if you feel this way.

[Taltarzac725]

They should approach this like the public health problem that it is. Gun control, training of proper gun use, lawsuits against gun manufacturers, lawsuits against those who make the public less safe from guns in some way, mental health awareness education, support systems in the community, suicide prevention, advertising against guns and that culture, movies about the actual real life effects of gun violence, TV shows against gun violence, survivors/victims of gun violence touring schools at various levels, anti-bullying campaigns at every level of education and in communities, etc. A holistic approach coming at the problem from every angle and permeating US society.

I was a gun owner and had a lot of them but sold most of them to get letters out back when we lived in Northern CA. Took them to a Santa Rosa pawn shop. I still have a few left. I grew up in Reno, Nevada where it was normal to have 10 year olds who knew how to use shotguns, rifles, handguns and the like. Lots of hunters and sportsmen in Nevada.

A "friend" shot me in the left pinky with his BB gun and that really killed any attraction I had for hunting and guns back when I was around 14 or 15. He had been aiming it at my eye at that time but I convinced him to try to shoot between my fingers instead. He missed. I found the love of books right after that but became a lot more isolated from these youth. Nevada can be a weird place to grow up.


By the way, Stephen Paddock looks like he came to Nevada late in life. Stephen Paddock - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Paddock)

[graciegirl]

They should approach this like the public health problem that it is. Gun control, training of proper gun use, lawsuits against gun manufacturers, lawsuits against those who make the public less safe from guns in some way, mental health awareness education, support systems in the community, suicide prevention, advertising against guns and that culture, movies about the actual real life effects of gun violence, TV shows against gun violence, survivors/victims of gun violence touring schools at various levels, anti-bullying campaigns at every level of education and in communities, etc. A holistic approach coming at the problem from every angle and permeating US society.

IF people are born with certain degrees of altruism AND others with certain degrees of criminality, then "training" and educating is ****ing in the wind. If the scientific method is used to define and to address this problem than we would need to deal with the reality that guns are in the hands of tens of thousands of people and only the ethical and the rule followers would give up their guns. I think the divide on this issue is between the realists and the dreamers, so to speak. It goes further into the fact that some people use guns to make a living; to rob, to intimidate, to protect their drug business, to threaten those who don't pay them, and others own guns out of some need to protect themselves. It can depend on where you are raised and the threat level of society that you have been exposed to all of your life. I think it goes much further than second amendment rights and is integrated into each person's level of safety and security.

At any rate, guns don't stop working. Once sold and owned they will continue to be deadly weapons forever, and getting them out of the hands of people who will hide them is to me not realistic at all.

I don't own a gun and in my whole life I have not been in a situation where someone threatened me or tried to steal things from me. We grew up in an area that did not have gun violence and tried hard to place our family in a similar area and still live in an area that is overwhelmingly safe. I don't think I have ever even seen a real gun.

However, as society continues to lose large percentages of people who are brought up with rules and respect for others, I would like to keep the option open to be able to buy a gun and learn how to use it.

[Taltarzac725]

IF people are born with certain degrees of altruism AND others with certain degrees of criminality, then "training" and educating is ****ing in the wind. If the scientific method is used to define and to address this problem than we would need to deal with the reality that guns are in the hands of tens of thousands of people and only the ethical and the rule followers would give up their guns. I think the divide on this issue is between the realists and the dreamers, so to speak. It goes further into the fact that some people use guns to make a living; to rob, to intimidate, to protect their drug business, to threaten those who don't pay them, and others own guns out of some need to protect themselves. It can depend on where you are raised and the threat level of society that you have been exposed to all of your life. I think it goes much further than second amendment rights and is integrated into each person's level of safety and security.

At any rate, guns don't stop working. Once sold and owned they will continue to be deadly weapons forever, and getting them out of the hands of people who will hide them is to me not realistic at all.

I don't own a gun and in my whole life I have not been in a situation where someone threatened me or tried to steal things from me. We grew up in an area that did not have gun violence and tried hard to place our family in a similar area and still live in an area that is overwhelmingly safe. I don't think I have ever even seen a real gun.

However, as society continues to lose large percentages of people who are brought up with rules and respect for others, I would like to keep the option open to be able to buy a gun and learn how to use it.

The education is aimed at preventing bullies from picking on misfits who often become the mass murderers. There is no way we can practically get rid of guns in the United States but we can put some kind of controls on some kind of guns.

I do not see much need of guns/rifles in the Villages. The cops are well armed and can be reached quickly with 911 and your neighbors probably also have guns of some kind.

I know a woman who has a handgun near her bed on the night stand. She heard a noise at night, picked up her loaded handgun, and shot her vacuum. It had shifted in her closet. This was in the Villages and I expect her friends have never let her forget this. I would check her car for her vacuum count like one of those WWII pilots.

[autumnspring]

He was scoping out various cities for an attack. This man looks like he was very deliberative and not mentally ill. Just a very evil person. My friend told me that he hoped this man had a tumor that caused this as my friend could no understand how someone could do this.

With Chicago they have to address the gangs there which are connected to the lucrative drug trade. The guns are used to defend their turfs and further gang violence while many civilians get caught in the cross-fire or are out right targeted if they have some connection with the gang like a relative in one of them.

We've been told several conflicting stories.
Automatic weapons, bump stock. Frankly, I never had heard of a bump stock. We've been told they found ONE bump stock and 32 or so guns. Quick research shows that the weapon must be shot from the hip-very inaccurate.

We've been told it was a long range shot. We've been told
they found sniper type calculations-wind speed, rate of fall. This sort of information would change depending on the caliber and bullet speed-shape of bullet, weight of bullet and amount of powder.

Clearly, there is a lot of missing information that the investigation team likely has some of. Clearly, they are looking for accomplishes.

SURE LOOKS LIKE INSANITY.
For those SCREAMING for more gun laws. First of all murder is a crime. Secondly, not mentioned by many, the Pulse nightclub-it is illegal to bring a gun into anyplace serving liquor. Las Vegas-I expect we will discover that the shooter had automatic weapons-they've BEEN ILLEGAL SINCE THE 1930's. The terms we are FED about assault rifles is simply a deliberate lie. An assault rifle is by definition automatic-they are illegal. What is sold are lok a likes. Sort of like calling the mustang that my friend owned
with a small six cylinder engine and a three speed standard transmission calling that a muscle car is the same.

[Vectra]

For those SCREAMING for more gun laws. First of all murder is a crime. Secondly, not mentioned by many, the Pulse nightclub-it is illegal to bring a gun into anyplace serving liquor. Las Vegas-I expect we will discover that the shooter had automatic weapons-they've BEEN ILLEGAL SINCE THE 1930's. The terms we are FED about assault rifles is simply a deliberate lie. An assault rifle is by definition automatic-they are illegal. What is sold are lok a likes. Sort of like calling the mustang that my friend owned
with a small six cylinder engine and a three speed standard transmission calling that a muscle car is the same.

You’ve totally lost me there I´m afraid

I don’t own a gun and never will and struggle to see why anyone else really needs to.

I bought a house in February in the area and the week before I finalized on the house there was a double murder during a home invasion in weirsdale which made me question whether to go ahead or not?

I’ve just flicked back through the villages news headlines and the following have happened involving guns since, all in a very limited area of maybe 15 miles of the house I bought,

I can remember many more like the poor Barber who was shot at point blank range in mount Dora for not cutting a customers hair because he had no money to pay for it and numerous armed robberies along the 441 Where staff and customers have been held up at gun point and relieved of their belongings and the biker executed at Leesburg Bikefest

Yesterday a man in Eustis shot his partners daughter in the head with a hand gun.

Early September 2 people shot at Lake Panasoffkee and airlifted to Ocala medical center

August 31, 17 year old dies of gunshopt wounds at Leesburg apartment complex

August 22, a car was chased by police and subsequently crashed into 2 vehicles at traffic lights killing the 55 year old driver of one car, found on the back seat of the car that was being chased was a AK47.

August 25, a 25 year old was charged with attempted murder after shooting his gun during an attempted burglary in Stonecrest.

August 14, Man fatally shot in home invasion in Summerfield

July 17 Convicted felon arrested with.38 special.

July 11A suspicious trio with a gun and drugs was arrested early Tuesday morning at Wal-Mart at Buffalo Ridge Plaza

July 10 A 25-year-old Wildwood man was arrested last week after allegedly shooting out the rear window of a car driven by a 17-year-old.

July 6 A 31-year-old Lady Lake man was arrested after he allegedly threatened a woman and her son with a gun in Altoona.

June 28 Marion County Sheriff’s Office Major Crimes detectives arrested Angel Daniel Blanco, 28, after he shot 68-year-old Ronald Lee Rowley.

June 18 A Summerfield man has been identified as the suspect in the shooting of a nurse Saturday at West Marion Community Hospital.

May 25 Leesburg police are looking for a pair of suspects in an armed robbery which occurred Wednesday night at Burger King on U.S. Hwy. 441.

May 22 Leesburg police have identified the victim of a fatal shooting Sunday as the suspect remains on the run.

May 4 A Summerfield man reported that a shotgun was pointed at him Wednesday during a dispute over a vehicle’s loud music.

April 25 A 25-year-old man was arrested on a felony charge of aggravated assault after he allegedly threatened a woman with his 9mm semi-automatic pistol in Wildwood.

April 17 Three armed robbers were caught after crashing their car Sunday in Marion County.Marion County sheriffs responded to the Meador’s Corner Qwik King store at 18236 SE 95th Street Road in Ocklawaha

April 10 An 18-year-old who had been spotted in January lurking near a Villages ATM with a loaded 9mm gun.

March 25 A Lady Lake couple arrested in January after firing guns at a hot water tank in the middle of the night have been ordered by a judge to stay away from alcohol.

February 24 Home invasion The Marion County Sheriff’s Office is investigating shooting that took place Friday morning in Weirsdale, 2 dead.

This is a very small time frame in a very small part of a relatively safe area of the US, makes you wonder what goes on not so nice areas and what could be achieved by having a more sensible approach to gun ownership.

[Taltarzac725]

We've been told several conflicting stories.
Automatic weapons, bump stock. Frankly, I never had heard of a bump stock. We've been told they found ONE bump stock and 32 or so guns. Quick research shows that the weapon must be shot from the hip-very inaccurate.

We've been told it was a long range shot. We've been told
they found sniper type calculations-wind speed, rate of fall. This sort of information would change depending on the caliber and bullet speed-shape of bullet, weight of bullet and amount of powder.

Clearly, there is a lot of missing information that the investigation team likely has some of. Clearly, they are looking for accomplishes.

SURE LOOKS LIKE INSANITY.
For those SCREAMING for more gun laws. First of all murder is a crime. Secondly, not mentioned by many, the Pulse nightclub-it is illegal to bring a gun into anyplace serving liquor. Las Vegas-I expect we will discover that the shooter had automatic weapons-they've BEEN ILLEGAL SINCE THE 1930's. The terms we are FED about assault rifles is simply a deliberate lie. An assault rifle is by definition automatic-they are illegal. What is sold are lok a likes. Sort of like calling the mustang that my friend owned
with a small six cylinder engine and a three speed standard transmission calling that a muscle car is the same.

Bump stock: The device found on Las Vegas shooter's guns - CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/04/us/bump-stock-las-vegas-shooting/index.html)

It looks like 12 of these weapons in Paddock's hotel room had these bump stocks.

And he was shooting into a crowd at random with no specific target in mind. Just the crowd of 22,000. He is not going to need sophisticated targeting information.

[Steve9930]

This guys is getting way too much press here. He does not deserve it.

[Carl in Tampa]

I probably see this differently to most people here but believe there is no reason why anyone needs or should have any type of automatic weapon be it semi or otherwise, these can be taken out of circulation by a change in the law and reduce the death toll significantly seen all over the country.

There are no valid arguments about second amendment rights and citizens freedoms that justify the current situation where mass shooting of large groups of people are so easy to perpetrate by any member of the public that might be a perfectly law abiding citizen one day and have a breakdown the next.

The reason I see it differently is because I am not American but English and have lived through the change of gun laws in the UK where just 2 mass killings was enough for the government of the time to act and abolish just about all guns in circulation and have seen no mass shooting since.

I currently live in Spain where similar strict gun laws make gun crime something that you just don’t think about, it happens but in such small numbers it’s not given a thought and personal safety is almost guaranteed with violent crime again minimal even in parts of towns and city’s that may not be the best.

I now own a house near the Villages and love everything about it and enjoy my time spent there and the friends I have made but am more than aware that shootings are happening at least once a month sometimes weekly within a few miles of my home there and consciously go home before the bad guys come out each evening and am slightly on edge in situations that I would never be in Europe.

Someone needs to have the balls to stand up to the NRA and say enough’s enough and that this type of carnage can and needs to be brought to an end for all the thousands of innocent people who have lost their lives so needlessly over the last few years and for all those who will lose their lives in the future if something isn’t done.

Let me give you some political insights. There is no political will in the United States to ban semi-automatic firearms. There are many millions of semi-automatic pistols, rifles, and shotguns in America. Even if your proposed law were passed, most would disappear, to reappear on the black market. They are not going away.

YOU may not be happy with our Second Amendment, but there are hundreds of millions of Americans who are. Free people have the liberty to arm themselves.

You're English? I remember England. It's that country which had disarmed it's citizenry, and when threatened by German invasion during World War II had to have thousands of Americans send their personal firearms to England to arm the Home Guard. The American Committee for the Defense of British Homes - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_American_Committee_for_the_Defense_of_British_ Homes)

You live in Spain? And you think that gun control laws in a country of 46.56 million with no Second Amendment, would work in a nation of 323.1 million which has had a Second Amendment since its inception? Well.........no.

You are wise to go home before the bad guys come out. Those of us from a different tradition, with the liberty to go out armed, and confident in our capabilities, don't observe a curfew.

Finally, here is a fact of life in America. There is a term for legislators who "have the balls to stand up to the NRA." They are called "former congressmen."

.

[Polar Bear]

...There is political will to do something about gun control...

...guns band will go into the black market for sure but these will be a small number compared with the numbers easily available today, deaths will come down...

...the madness of gun culture...


Assumptions and bias stated so casually as fact.

...Anyone who speaks up about the madness of gun culture is shot down one way or another, no pun intended...
As is the reverse.


For the record, I am not opposed to some sort of reasonable gun control. (Whatever that may be ?!?) I just don't think it will help in the war against sick, criminal minds.