Tax cuts and deficit

[Rockyrd]

The administration is offering large tax cuts with no commensurate spending cuts at all.

Should this signal that we are going to simply allow the deficit to grow and make not more attempts to even try to reduce it ?

[Don Baldwin]

The administration is offering large tax cuts with no commensurate spending cuts at all.

Should this signal that we are going to simply allow the deficit to grow and make not more attempts to even try to reduce it ?

Yup... We're $20 trillion in the hole and we borrow about 1/4 of the "budget" each year...over a $ trillion a year.

They KNOW the country is doomed due to the minority majority...the increasing poor...they're driving it into the ground and taking profits along the way.

America will collapse becoming Mexico II.

It's coming...it ALWAYS does. EVERY system/economy/empire/civilization before us HAS collapsed. We will too. The population "correction" will overshoot the mean. Only the toughest, meanest, most desperate, will survive. Humanity will reset, start over, again...like it has many times in the past. I just hope it waits until I'm gone.

In 10,000 years, there will be stories about the Gods who could fly. Maybe they'll write a book full of these stories...maybe they'll create a religion based on us.

[Rockyrd]

Yup... We're $20 trillion in the hole and we borrow about 1/4 of the "budget" each year...over a $ trillion a year.

They KNOW the country is doomed due to the minority majority...the increasing poor...they're driving it into the ground and taking profits along the way.

America will collapse becoming Mexico II.

It's coming...it ALWAYS does. EVERY system/economy/empire/civilization before us HAS collapsed. We will too. The population "correction" will overshoot the mean. Only the toughest, meanest, most desperate, will survive. Humanity will reset, start over, again...like it has many times in the past. I just hope it waits until I'm gone.

In 10,000 years, there will be stories about the Gods who could fly. Maybe they'll write a book full of these stories...maybe they'll create a religion based on us.

You twist everything.

Point of this thread is the current proposals being submitted to the US congress and my reason for the thread was to try and have a real discussion and push people like you ot, so a true and honest discussion might occur on a real problem...deficit.

Tax cuts great, but we have a number of folks who know about the economy and hoping they post here.

What is not needed is people like you..take it where you live

[Byte1]

Depending on the tax cuts, they can boost the economy. More money in the pocket of the workers, the more that gets spent and the more jobs required to produce such demand. Tax cuts on businesses means more money for investing, more money for hiring and more profit which usually means employee bonuses and pay raises. All of this means more spending, which boosts the economy. This fact is obtained from graphs of tax revenues, GDP growth and lifestyle changes for the past few decades. This is one way to boost the economy as well as tax revenues. On the other hand, if you increase taxes, you only increase tax revenues but not the economy.

[mellincf]

Economists Think Republicans’ Tax Numbers Are a Joke.
Republicans are eager to justify tax cuts by promising growth and tax gains that history has shown will never come. The nonpartisan Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget said the Republican tax framework released on Wednesday could add $2.2 trillion in deficit spending by handing out tax cuts “like Halloween candy.” Republicans’ favorite example from history is Ronald Reagan’s 1986 tax cut. On Wednesday, House Speaker Paul Ryan cited those cuts, claiming that they had given Americans a tax system they to be proud of. But the most comprehensive analysis of the Reagan cuts suggests they didn’t lead to economic growth. The next year, the Dow Jones dropped by 22 percent in one day, the largest crash in US history.

[mellincf]

Depending on the tax cuts, they can boost the economy. More money in the pocket of the workers, the more that gets spent and the more jobs required to produce such demand. Tax cuts on businesses means more money for investing, more money for hiring and more profit which usually means employee bonuses and pay raises. All of this means more spending, which boosts the economy. This fact is obtained from graphs of tax revenues, GDP growth and lifestyle changes for the past few decades. This is one way to boost the economy as well as tax revenues. On the other hand, if you increase taxes, you only increase tax revenues but not the economy. The average middle class family will get a tax cut of about $40. The average wealthy family will get a tax cut of about $7 million.

[rubicon]

When a bill is finally agreed upon then one can argue its positive/negative affects.

However a very critical piece of this proposal is the state/local income tax deduction. iIs a good example of tax preference that adds complexity to the tax codes and subsudizes some taxpayers at the expense of other taxpayers.

In States like New York, New Jersey, California its a big deal. Its a savings overall of $1.25 trillion over 10 years, savings that can be used to lower rates.

There are 33 House Republicans who hail from states such as New York were this deduction is sacrosanct and they are the wealthiest regions in the nation were the deduction amounts are substantial for these taxpayers.

You can bet what side of this issue Chuck Schummer will be on.

Another deduction is the mortgage deduction and lobbyist from builders and realtors are lining up at the door.

Unless we get a clean bill with NO CARVE OUT the end product will be diluted

Personal Best Regards:

[Don Baldwin]

You twist everything.

Point of this thread is the current proposals being submitted to the US congress and my reason for the thread was to try and have a real discussion and push people like you ot, so a true and honest discussion might occur on a real problem...deficit.

Tax cuts great, but we have a number of folks who know about the economy and hoping they post here.

What is not needed is people like you..take it where you live

No...I "untwist" it...I tell you the REAL problem and it's TOO MANY POOR PEOPLE. Half the country gets a government benefit now. The federal government spends over a $ trillion a year on the "poor". How long do you think this can go on? Can 60% collect benefits? Can 75%? Can 100%? Can the government provide everyone with "free" insurance that costs about $1,000 a month? It's NOT my fault...it's NOT my doing that 90% of the poor are minorities.

Why do you want the truth pushed out? It's hard to have a real discussion when everyone is lying and refuses to admit the truth. Yes...the deficit IS way too high...over a $ trillion of the deficit IS welfare. WHY can't/won't you talk about that? Is the military the ONLY thing you want cut? Corporate "welfare"? Yes...they MUST be cut too...but welfare to the "poor" that can pay the equivalent of $60,000 a year MUST be cut too.

I do know a lot about the economy...it's fake. It's been fake since the crash in 2008. It's being kept afloat with government deficit spending. It's NOT going to improve because the demographics has changed too much for it to recover. We ARE a minority majority and NO minority majority country is successful. Within 30 years...America will be no more. We are bankrupt and the debt is spiraling out of control.

I'm telling what IS happening...not what they want you to THINK is happening. Turn OFF the TV...put down the newspaper...that is propaganda...misinformation...just like the people of Russia, China, and N Korea gets.

What IS needed is MORE people like me...educated, informed, and willing to share.

See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil? You're a mushroom, kept in the dark and fed ****. There IS evil out there...and they're called our "leaders". You MUST look at them...you MUST hear them...and you MUST say something about them.

You want to fix the deficit? Elect no more Ds or Rs...ever. They are BOTH completely corrupt.

[Rockyrd]

When a bill is finally agreed upon then one can argue its positive/negative affects.

However a very critical piece of this proposal is the state/local income tax deduction. iIs a good example of tax preference that adds complexity to the tax codes and subsudizes some taxpayers at the expense of other taxpayers.

In States like New York, New Jersey, California its a big deal. Its a savings overall of $1.25 trillion over 10 years, savings that can be used to lower rates.

There are 33 House Republicans who hail from states such as New York were this deduction is sacrosanct and they are the wealthiest regions in the nation were the deduction amounts are substantial for these taxpayers.

You can bet what side of this issue Chuck Schummer will be on.

Another deduction is the mortgage deduction and lobbyist from builders and realtors are lining up at the door.

Unless we get a clean bill with NO CARVE OUT the end product will be diluted

Personal Best Regards:

It appears that Republicans will scrap the idea of eliminating this deduction to get votes for the overall proposal.

Republicans consider keeping the state and local tax deduction as they search for votes for overhaul - LA Times (http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-state-local-tax-deduction-20171004-story.html)

So much for the carve out.

I am more interested in my OP...i.e., cutting taxes from wherever, with no commensurate spending cuts.

I keep hearing about, what even supporters question a huge increase in GDP.

That is what I would like to hear opinions on, because you cut taxes, they are cut. Nobody will want to raise them and depending on such an increase in GDP seems a bit irresponsible.

The deficit grows, the rich get richer it seems

[Byte1]

The average middle class family will get a tax cut of about $40. The average wealthy family will get a tax cut of about $7 million.

Do you have a link to that information? What are the income groups that you are quoting. How do you average a wealthy family?

[Byte1]

It appears that Republicans will scrap the idea of eliminating this deduction to get votes for the overall proposal.

Republicans consider keeping the state and local tax deduction as they search for votes for overhaul - LA Times (http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-state-local-tax-deduction-20171004-story.html)

So much for the carve out.

I am more interested in my OP...i.e., cutting taxes from wherever, with no commensurate spending cuts.

I keep hearing about, what even supporters question a huge increase in GDP.

That is what I would like to hear opinions on, because you cut taxes, they are cut. Nobody will want to raise them and depending on such an increase in GDP seems a bit irresponsible.

The deficit grows, the rich get richer it seems

In this country, when the rich get richer the middle and lower class have always improved their lifestyle. I think that many folks fail to realize that our average poor family lives as well as many middle class in other countries. Our middle class lives as well as upper middle class to lower wealthy in other countries. Why? Because we have an abundance of wealthy in this country.

[Rockyrd]

In this country, when the rich get richer the middle and lower class have always improved their lifestyle. I think that many folks fail to realize that our average poor family lives as well as many middle class in other countries. Our middle class lives as well as upper middle class to lower wealthy in other countries. Why? Because we have an abundance of wealthy in this country.

You miss the entire point.

Lower taxes equals lower revenue.

We already are choking on deficits.

When you lower your revenue, you go to lower your spending

[Paper1]

Depending on the tax cuts, they can boost the economy. More money in the pocket of the workers, the more that gets spent and the more jobs required to produce such demand. Tax cuts on businesses means more money for investing, more money for hiring and more profit which usually means employee bonuses and pay raises. All of this means more spending, which boosts the economy. This fact is obtained from graphs of tax revenues, GDP growth and lifestyle changes for the past few decades. This is one way to boost the economy as well as tax revenues. On the other hand, if you increase taxes, you only increase tax revenues but not the economy.
30 years ago a tax cut of this size may have moved economy but today it will only transfer wealth. The promise of high paying job creation is a real stretch. For anyone who is serious about making money the last thing they will want to do is hire employees, kind of like collateral damage in a war. You invest in technology instead of people. Now if tax cuts are directly targeted at businesses that actually hire more USA employees makes sense, not a budget busting tax cut with no guarantees. I think general tax cuts will help foreign manufacturers not us.

[Don Baldwin]

In this country, when the rich get richer the middle and lower class have always improved their lifestyle. I think that many folks fail to realize that our average poor family lives as well as many middle class in other countries. Our middle class lives as well as upper middle class to lower wealthy in other countries. Why? Because we have an abundance of wealthy in this country.

ALL due to debt. We borrow and give it to the poor. It can't last...it won't last.

We have DEBT...NOT wealth. We owe $20 trillion...we go in the hole over $1 trillion each year. Even the businesses/corporations are leveraged with debt. Our system is DEBT based. Debt based systems NEVER last.

30 years ago a tax cut of this size may have moved economy but today it will only transfer wealth. The promise of high paying job creation is a real stretch. For anyone who is serious about making money the last thing they will want to do is hire employees, kind of like collateral damage in a war. You invest in technology instead of people. Now if tax cuts are directly targeted at businesses that actually hire more USA employees makes sense, not a budget busting tax cut with no guarantees. I think general tax cuts will help foreign manufacturers not us.

The debt is expanding exponentially and the demographics are changing almost as fast. "America" is finished. Within 30 years. I hope it comes after I'm gone.

[dirtbanker]

Lower taxes equals lower revenue.


Spoken like a true Democrat!

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[Paper1]

In this country, when the rich get richer the middle and lower class have always improved their lifestyle. I think that many folks fail to realize that our average poor family lives as well as many middle class in other countries. Our middle class lives as well as upper middle class to lower wealthy in other countries. Why? Because we have an abundance of wealthy in this country.
I respectfully disagree, the government spending much more than they take in is what stimulates the economy. Pass a balanced budget next year and even while ignoring the debt the economy and stock market would both tank badly. With pension plans disappearing and people relying on 401K the stock market resembles a Ponzi scheme. IMHO

[mellincf]

Do you have a link to that information? What are the income groups that you are quoting. How do you average a wealthy family?Trump says tax plan helps middle class, not wealthy. Experts say that's not true. - Chicago Tribune (http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-trump-tax-plan-wealthy-20170427-story.html)

[Rockyrd]

9 ways Trump’s tax plan is a gift to the rich, including himself - The Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/09/28/9-ways-trumps-tax-plan-is-a-gift-to-the-rich-including-himself/?utm_term=.264a4abb8d96)

Trump's Tax Plan and 'the Rich' - FactCheck.org (http://www.factcheck.org/2017/09/trumps-tax-plan-rich/)

https://www.forbes.com/sites/anthonynitti/2017/09/29/despite-promises-to-the-contrary-trump-tax-plan-heaps-biggest-benefits-on-the-rich/#2cc8b87055eb

Big Winners in Donald Trump’s Tax Plan: The Wealthy - WSJ (https://www.wsj.com/articles/big-winners-in-donald-trumps-tax-plan-the-wealthy-1493744652)

From the FORBES link above.....

"By eliminating tax breaks and loopholes, we will ensure that the benefits are focused on the middle class, the working men and women, not the highest-income earners. They can call me all they want. It’s not going to help. I’m doing the right thing, and it’s not good for me. Believe me.

Well, Mr. President, it appears as though you can stop worrying about rich friends calling to complain. They're going to do juuuust fine under your plan, and so are you, as evidenced by an analysis released today by the Tax Policy Center. They and you will do disproportionately better, in fact, then the lower-class taxpayers you said were the focus of your tax cuts.

Oh, and as for America's forgotten middle class? For those making between $100,000 and $300,000, well...there is a one-in-three chance they will be paying more in tax then under current law."

[rubicon]

a tax system should not seek to be " fair". A tax system should seek to be effective and efficient.

This issue of " fairness" as respects taxes is meaningless. In that I mean at every socio-economic level people will complain that someone else is not paying their fair share. As a result we find politicians passing legislation allowing for carve outs for their favored constituents. these same politicians need to satisfy the hoi polli so they provide entitlements one way or another. Let's not forget that these same politicians pass legislation making it easier to take back the bacon to their home states

The following carve outs ought to be eliminated estate taxes because people are forced to pay taxes twice on earned income, state/local tax deduction because states with lower or no state tax finance the deduction. And also the mortgage interest deduction.
I desire repeal of the estate tax only on the belief that it is punitive in nature.

Some posters continue to be concerned about the balance between revenue and expenditures. I am not because no matter what Congress decides they will continue raising the debt ceiling.

Our government representatives and employees are imprudent spenders of taxpayer funds and are guilty of abuse, fraud and waste.

I view government as the Sheriff of Nottingham and have his way with us when he wants.

I await a genuine tax reform but doubt I will ever see it in my time.

Personal Best Regards:

[Paper1]

a tax system should not seek to be " fair". A tax system should seek to be effective and efficient.

This issue of " fairness" as respects taxes is meaningless. In that I mean at every socio-economic level people will complain that someone else is not paying their fair share. As a result we find politicians passing legislation allowing for carve outs for their favored constituents. these same politicians need to satisfy the hoi polli so they provide entitlements one way or another. Let's not forget that these same politicians pass legislation making it easier to take back the bacon to their home states

The following carve outs ought to be eliminated estate taxes because people are forced to pay taxes twice on earned income, state/local tax deduction because states with lower or no state tax finance the deduction. And also the mortgage interest deduction.
I desire repeal of the estate tax only on the belief that it is punitive in nature.

Some posters continue to be concerned about the balance between revenue and expenditures. I am not because no matter what Congress decides they will continue raising the debt ceiling.

Our government representatives and employees are imprudent spenders of taxpayer funds and are guilty of abuse, fraud and waste.

I view government as the Sheriff of Nottingham and have his way with us when he wants.

I await a genuine tax reform but doubt I will ever see it in my time.

Personal Best Regards:
A balanced budget amendment with no wiggle room would solve most of the issues you speak to. It would force the tough decisions that are ignored now to be made. Spending would have real consequences at the ballot box. Term limits would not be needed. Maybe those junk yard dogs Reagan was going to set loose to go after wasteful spending 35 years ago might even come back to life.

[Don Baldwin]

A balanced budget amendment with no wiggle room would solve most of the issues you speak to. It would force the tough decisions that are ignored now to be made. Spending would have real consequences at the ballot box. Term limits would not be needed. Maybe those junk yard dogs Reagan was going to set loose to go after wasteful spending 35 years ago might even come back to life.

What would cutting the "budget" by 1/4, over $1 trillion, 25%...solve?

Do you KNOW just how many people RELY on the government? Half get benefits...government hiring and contracts create/maintain jobs.

The country would crash and burn without that money.

[MDLNB]

What would cutting the "budget" by 1/4, over $1 trillion, 25%...solve?

Do you KNOW just how many people RELY on the government? Half get benefits...government hiring and contracts create/maintain jobs.

The country would crash and burn without that money.

Good, then the survivors will live and the losers will die off. I wonder how many libtards would wish to ban guns if that happened.

[Don Baldwin]

Good, then the survivors will live and the losers will die off. I wonder how many libtards would wish to ban guns if that happened.

What we SHOULD have been doing all along.

HALF the country receives a government benefit...that cannot be sustained.

WHAT are we going to do with 50 million people who can't afford to eat? Keep housing them? Keep feeding them? KEEP paying for their b@stard children? THEY outnumber US below the age of 7. They ARE taking over...breeding us out.

[Bog99]

We could start here:


https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-political-talk-88/how-rid-senate-femo-fascist-idiots-247586/

.

[MDLNB]

Pelosi said that food stamps, unemployment checks and welfare were good for the economy. I say, cut them off and those that wish to survive will seek employment. THAT will be good for the economy. More of the population working will also increase tax revenues. Of course, libTARDS only believe that taxing the rich will increase tax revenues. Idiots!

[rjm1cc]

The administration is offering large tax cuts with no commensurate spending cuts at all.

Should this signal that we are going to simply allow the deficit to grow and make not more attempts to even try to reduce it ?

Both are good but I do not think you can get then done together. The deficit has been growing because we spend too much not because we do not tax enough.

[Paper1]

What would cutting the "budget" by 1/4, over $1 trillion, 25%...solve?

Do you KNOW just how many people RELY on the government? Half get benefits...government hiring and contracts create/maintain jobs.

The country would crash and burn without that money.

If what you are saying is we cannot cut spending then should we not raise taxes. I just think we should do one or the other, maybe both but stop this credit madness.

[Paper1]

What we SHOULD have been doing all along.

HALF the country receives a government benefit...that cannot be sustained.

WHAT are we going to do with 50 million people who can't afford to eat? Keep housing them? Keep feeding them? KEEP paying for their b@stard children? THEY outnumber US below the age of 7. They ARE taking over...breeding us out.

Does that include retired people drawing a lot more social security and medicare benefit than they paid in?

[Don Baldwin]

Pelosi said that food stamps, unemployment checks and welfare were good for the economy. I say, cut them off and those that wish to survive will seek employment. THAT will be good for the economy. More of the population working will also increase tax revenues. Of course, libTARDS only believe that taxing the rich will increase tax revenues. Idiots!

You're going to "cut off" 50 million mostly minority women? You're gonna say...work or you and your children starve? Have at it...

The government supports the blacks and lets them sit home doing nothing because FORCING them to work is slavery again.

We LET the illegals come here and do their jobs. The jobs the blacks and kids used to do...Hispanics do now. And we pay them too.

Does that include retired people drawing a lot more social security and medicare benefit than they paid in?

Those people are long gone...everyone starting collecting now has paid in their entire working lives.

It includes everyone collecting something from the government...the DIFFERENCE is...the white people collecting SS...PAID...the 50 million on welfare did NOT. One is a RETURN on investment...the other is a gift...charity. That's a HUGE difference.

What happens when the government has to start cashing in those SS trust fund IOUs to pay people? Where is it going to come up with that? It already borrows more than a $ trillion a year. It'll be $2 trillion next year as Trump has to pay for the TX and FL, PR hurricane damage.

[dirtbanker]

You're going to "cut off" 50 million mostly minority women? You're gonna say...work or you and your children starve? Have at it...

The government supports the blacks and lets them sit home doing nothing because FORCING them to work is slavery again.

We LET the illegals come here and do their jobs. The jobs the blacks and kids used to do...Hispanics do now. And we pay them too.



Those people are long gone...everyone starting collecting now has paid in their entire working lives.

It includes everyone collecting something from the government...the DIFFERENCE is...the white people collecting SS...PAID...the 50 million on welfare did NOT. One is a RETURN on investment...the other is a gift...charity. That's a HUGE difference.

What happens when the government has to start cashing in those SS trust fund IOUs to pay people? Where is it going to come up with that? It already borrows more than a $ trillion a year. It'll be $2 trillion next year as Trump has to pay for the TX and FL, PR hurricane damage.Did all the liberals take a break... Where is the rebuttal? Come on you have Don on the ropes...

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