New car Documentation fee.

[birdawg]

Which car dealers do not charge a documentation fee. This is just another rip off.

[Wiotte]

Which car dealers do not charge a documentation fee. This is just another rip off.



Mazda in Orlando for one.


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[retiredguy123]

None of them will charge it if you just refuse to pay it. This also applies to worthless dealer installed options. The best way to buy a new car is to do your homework online and know what the car is worth, including taxes, tag fees, current rebates, and trade-in value. Then, only discuss the out-the-door price with the dealer, and don't bother looking at the stupid dealer breakdown items and bogus invoices. I also recommend that you not sit at the saleperson's little desk and wait around while he/she goes to talk to the sales manager, and be prepared to walk out the door. Never pay a deposit for a car that will be delivered from another dealership. And, don't waste time with a buying service. Follow these rules and you can avoid getting ripped off. I purchased a car a few months ago, test drove the car I wanted, handed the salesperson a slip of paper with the out-the door price including trade-in, and told him he had 15 minutes to accept it or I was leaving. I was polite, but refused to discuss anything else, and they accepted the offer.

[Wiotte]

None of them will charge it if you just refuse to pay it. This also applies to worthless dealer installed options. The best way to buy a new car is to do your homework online and know what the car is worth, including taxes, tag fees, current rebates, and trade-in value. Then, only discuss the out-the-door price with the dealer, and don't bother looking at the stupid dealer breakdown items and bogus invoices. I also recommend that you not sit at the saleperson's little desk and wait around while he/she goes to talk to the sales manager, and be prepared to walk out the door. Never pay a deposit for a car that will be delivered from another dealership. And, don't waste time with a buying service. Follow these rules and you can avoid getting ripped off. I purchased a car a few months ago, test drove the car I wanted, handed the salesperson a slip of paper with the out-the door price including trade-in, and told him he had 15 minutes to accept it or I was leaving. I refused to discuss anything else, and they accepted the offer.



Listen to this guy.


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[Villager Joyce]

None of them will charge it if you just refuse to pay it. This also applies to worthless dealer installed options. The best way to buy a new car is to do your homework online and know what the car is worth, including taxes, tag fees, current rebates, and trade-in value. Then, only discuss the out-the-door price with the dealer, and don't bother looking at the stupid dealer breakdown items and bogus invoices. I also recommend that you not sit at the saleperson's little desk and wait around while he/she goes to talk to the sales manager, and be prepared to walk out the door. Never pay a deposit for a car that will be delivered from another dealership. And, don't waste time with a buying service. Follow these rules and you can avoid getting ripped off. I purchased a car a few months ago, test drove the car I wanted, handed the salesperson a slip of paper with the out-the door price including trade-in, and told him he had 15 minutes to accept it or I was leaving. I was polite, but refused to discuss anything else, and they accepted the offer.

We are looking right now. How about you going with us to the dealer. We will buy you lunch at the restaurant of your choice.

[Wiotte]

We are looking right now. How about you going with us to the dealer. We will buy you lunch at the restaurant of your choice.



Sounds like the start of a niche business.


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[Topspinmo]

Now matter how hard I try, I get screwed ever time:eclipsee_gold_cup: IMO if they're not screwing you they won't close the deal. You may think your getting fair deal, but I doubt it:beer3:

[l2ridehd]

Always know the dealer cost of the car you want. Then never pay more then that. They get incentives to cover their profit.

I tell every sales person I work with, "you see that sign above the door?" and there is no sign there. It says "I wont be back" once I leave.

[aninjamom]

Don't pay the dealer "prep" fee either, that's another bogus fee. You don't need nitrogen in the tires, and you didn't ask for that!

[fred53]

Now matter how hard I try, I get screwed ever time:eclipsee_gold_cup: IMO if they're not screwing you they won't close the deal. You may think your getting fair deal, but I doubt it:beer3:

some folks just do not have the ability to use their brain and the common sense with which they are born. It would be near impossible to ever be satisfied with any deal made if it's always assuming the worst...glass almost empty.

[villagetinker]

None of them will charge it if you just refuse to pay it. This also applies to worthless dealer installed options. The best way to buy a new car is to do your homework online and know what the car is worth, including taxes, tag fees, current rebates, and trade-in value. Then, only discuss the out-the-door price with the dealer, and don't bother looking at the stupid dealer breakdown items and bogus invoices. I also recommend that you not sit at the saleperson's little desk and wait around while he/she goes to talk to the sales manager, and be prepared to walk out the door. Never pay a deposit for a car that will be delivered from another dealership. And, don't waste time with a buying service. Follow these rules and you can avoid getting ripped off. I purchased a car a few months ago, test drove the car I wanted, handed the salesperson a slip of paper with the out-the door price including trade-in, and told him he had 15 minutes to accept it or I was leaving. I was polite, but refused to discuss anything else, and they accepted the offer.

retireguy123, you seem very knowledgeable in this area, so do you know of any reliable websites that would provide the "dealer cost" I have access to: consumer reports, AAA, and AARP, but have not checked on them for accuracy. Or should I rely on KBB, TrueCar, or something else?

[retiredguy123]

retireguy123, you seem very knowledgeable in this area, so do you know of any reliable websites that would provide the "dealer cost" I have access to: consumer reports, AAA, and AARP, but have not checked on them for accuracy. Or should I rely on KBB, TrueCar, or something else?
I used Edmunds.com and kbb.com to calculate the fair value for the car and for the trade in value. The price I paid was about $2500 less than the initial price the dealer gave me when I first visited the dealership, on a $25000 suv. I came back a few days later and presented my "take it or leave it" offer. They accepted the offer and my personal check and I drove it home. I also believe in being polite and honest with the dealer. I told them upfront that I would be trading in my car, paying cash, and using edmunds and kbb to calculate a fair price, and would not include anything for dealer installed options, documentation fees, or anything else not included in those websites. I presented my offer directly to the sales manager and made it very clear to him that I was leaving in 15 minutes and that I would not haggle about the price.

[dewilson58]

Nothing new about using all the information on the internet as a resource. The key (no pun) is don't go in with the pressure of having to buy a car today. You don't need it today, you don't need it tomorrow. Take it or leave it attitude is always good.

[Kerry Azz]

None of them will charge it if you just refuse to pay it. This also applies to worthless dealer installed options. The best way to buy a new car is to do your homework online and know what the car is worth, including taxes, tag fees, current rebates, and trade-in value. Then, only discuss the out-the-door price with the dealer, and don't bother looking at the stupid dealer breakdown items and bogus invoices. I also recommend that you not sit at the saleperson's little desk and wait around while he/she goes to talk to the sales manager, and be prepared to walk out the door. Never pay a deposit for a car that will be delivered from another dealership. And, don't waste time with a buying service. Follow these rules and you can avoid getting ripped off. I purchased a car a few months ago, test drove the car I wanted, handed the salesperson a slip of paper with the out-the door price including trade-in, and told him he had 15 minutes to accept it or I was leaving. I was polite, but refused to discuss anything else, and they accepted the offer.

I’m going to state a fact here! If they took your offer upon demand I’m sure you probably paid to much for the vehicle. With 35 years in the car business and a very high closing ratio I can tell you if you don’t negotiate then you paid to much.
Dealers deserve to make a profit and salespeople usually work on commission. Just do your homework online when shopping for a new vehicle educate yourself it’s probably the second largest purchase you’ll make after buying your home. KBB Is only a reference guide and if your looking at a used vehicle to purchase NEVER look at the dealer price, for sale by private party it’s close to fair market value.

[villagetinker]

Thank you retiredguy 123.

[retiredguy123]

I’m going to state a fact here! If they took your offer upon demand I’m sure you probably paid to much for the vehicle. With 35 years in the car business and a very high closing ratio I can tell you if you don’t negotiate then you paid to much.
Dealers deserve to make a profit and salespeople usually work on commission. Just do your homework online when shopping for a new vehicle educate yourself it’s probably the second largest purchase you’ll make after buying your home. KBB Is only a reference guide and if your looking at a used vehicle to purchase NEVER look at the dealer price, for sale by private party it’s close to fair market value.
I don’t think I paid too much. The price I paid was $2500 less than the dealer’s initial offer, and the same price calculated by KBB and less than Edmunds. I could have saved money by selling my used car myself, but it would have been a hassle and I would not have saved the sales tax on the trade-in value. Also, I would have had to get a temporary tag for my used car while trying to sell it. I think negotiating with the dealer is not productive because the dealer has so much more information available than the customer. Like Clint Eastwood said, “a man has got to know his limitations”.

[Daddymac]

I used Edmunds.com and kbb.com to calculate the fair value for the car and for the trade in value. The price I paid was about $2500 less than the initial price the dealer gave me when I first visited the dealership, on a $25000 suv. I came back a few days later and presented my "take it or leave it" offer. They accepted the offer and my personal check and I drove it home. I also believe in being polite and honest with the dealer. I told them upfront that I would be trading in my car, paying cash, and using edmunds and kbb to calculate a fair price, and would not include anything for dealer installed options, documentation fees, or anything else not included in those websites. I presented my offer directly to the sales manager and made it very clear to him that I was leaving in 15 minutes and that I would not haggle about the price.
.
Great Work there.. You could make a few bucks, Helping people.:boom:

[Jayhawk]

Tax, Tag and Title

Dealers can charge only the actual amount of fees paid for tax, tag and title transfer.

Generally, the tax, tag and title fees are not included in the contract. However, some dealers will charge a processing or handling fee. If they do, they must disclose it separately. Again, make sure you understand all the terms of the contract.

http://www.flhsmv.gov/SafetyTips/PDFs/BuyingVehicle.pdf

[retiredguy123]

Tax, Tag and Title

Dealers can charge only the actual amount of fees paid for tax, tag and title transfer.

Generally, the tax, tag and title fees are not included in the contract. However, some dealers will charge a processing or handling fee. If they do, they must disclose it separately. Again, make sure you understand all the terms of the contract.

http://www.flhsmv.gov/SafetyTips/PDFs/BuyingVehicle.pdf
I think it is a waste of time to discuss any individual dealer charges. If you do your homework and make a fair, out-the-door offer, the dealer will make the numbers work and sell you the car. Everything else is irrelevant.

[Topspinmo]

some folks just do not have the ability to use their brain and the common sense with which they are born. It would be near impossible to ever be satisfied with any deal made if it's always assuming the worst...glass almost empty.

Some folks think they know it all, but really don't know jack Shyt.

[CWGUY]

We are looking right now. How about you going with us to the dealer. We will buy you lunch at the restaurant of your choice.

Sounds like the start of a niche business.


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.
Great Work there.. You could make a few bucks, Helping people.:boom:

:ohdear: This guy has been here awhile.... maybe longer than some posters.
Best Car For The Best Price Negotiator (http://www.thecardealnegotiator.com/)

[village dreamer]

and never pay for undercoating , window etching, scotch guard.

[Carl in Tampa]

Don't pay the dealer "prep" fee either, that's another bogus fee. You don't need nitrogen in the tires, and you didn't ask for that!

The "ordinary" air in the atmosphere is 78% nitrogen. Probably the only reason for spending more on "pure" nitrogen is in very high performance situations; not the ordinary driving done by most of us.

Comparison of nitrogen versus air in your tires | TireBuyer.com (https://www.tirebuyer.com/education/nitrogen-vs-air)

[Wiotte]

The "ordinary" air in the atmosphere is 78% nitrogen. Probably the only reason for spending more on "pure" nitrogen is in very high performance situations; not the ordinary driving done by most of us.



Comparison of nitrogen versus air in your tires | TireBuyer.com (https://www.tirebuyer.com/education/nitrogen-vs-air)



But but the green valve stem caps are so cool.


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[Topspinmo]

But but the green valve stem caps are so cool.


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Must be the 22% that loses 2 or more PSI month when temperatures change? My car came with nitrogen, air pressure rarely changed but after year or two they need topped off, the more air I pumped into them over time the more the pressure dropped off. I willing to bet that at least 75% don't check tire pressure once month. Heck, I bet some can find the valve stems, let alone know how t put air in them:popcorn:

[Wiotte]

Must be the 22% that loses 2 or more PSI month when temperatures change? My car came with nitrogen, air pressure rarely changed but after year or two they need topped off, the more air I pumped into them over time the more the pressure dropped off. I willing to bet that at least 75% don't check tire pressure once month. Heck, I bet some can find the valve stems, let alone know how t put air in them:popcorn:



75% ? Ha ! Try 99.999 % Who owns a tire pressure gauge here. Lol


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[FenneyGuy]

75% ? Ha ! Try 99.999 % Who owns a tire pressure gauge here. Lol


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I do. And, it is accurate.

[Wiotte]

I do. And, it is accurate.



You are of the .001, welcome.


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[FenneyGuy]

You are of the .001, welcome.


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I'm special! ;)

I tuned the carb on my neighbor's 61 Corvette this morning. Solved a miss he had by snugging the four nuts which fasten the carb to the intake (with a gasket in between, of course).

[birdawg]

Lets get back on topic New car documentation fee.