Auto dealers with no Doc fees.

[birdawg]

Lets use this forum to list what dealers don't charge a doc fee. No opinions just the dealer names. Hyundai of central Fl., Mullinax Ford, Ocean Honda of St.Pete

[Ooper]

Do you mean a "dealer fee"?

[village dreamer]

I think he means, the fee for doing paper work

[DeanFL]

Toyota - Earl Stewart Toyota in W Palm Beach.

Bought a new 2010 Prius from them - simple, efficient, and saved a $900 Dealer fee that local dealers charged. They are a 70 year old dealership and have leverage over the cartel of SE Toyota region which enforces the Dealer Fee in other dealers. So pleased I did not beckon to these other dealer's tactics but still received great service from local Phillips Toyota. No longer have the Prius (was great for the 6 years we have it tho... 3 friends bought their new Toyotas from ES as well, and very pleased.

Earl Stewart Toyota of North Palm Beach: Toyota Dealer in Lake Park serving Palm Beach County (https://www.earlstewarttoyota.com/)

From their site>
Dealer fees are charges added to the price of a car. They appear alongside legitimate state fees, like title and registration, but they are anything but legitimate. Dealer fees represent nothing but additional, hidden profit to the dealer.
Dealer fees allow dealers to advertise prices far below what they will actually sell the car for, and then tack on these bogus charges after a price has been agreed upon.

How much are dealer fees? A lot! Dealer fees range from as low as $299 to well over $2,000! They also have many different names, just to make things even more confusing: doc fees, dealer prep, dealer services, etc…

Earl Stewart Toyota believes a fair price, offered up front without haggling and without bogus add-on fees, is the honest way to do business!

[Gpsma]

Who cares if they charge fees. Always examine and review all charges for the true bottom line. Dont focus on one fee and lose your perspetive on the whole deal

[Gpsma]

And one more comment. No matter how nice or how personable you sales rep is, they arent looking out for your best interests.

Remember...their job is to maximize dealer profit and their commision.

Your job is to get the cheapest price you can.

They arent your friends, you will likely not hear from them again.

In car dealership lingo...dont be a "lay down". Fight and argue every penny.

[retiredguy123]

Toyota - Earl Stewart Toyota in W Palm Beach.

Bought a new 2010 Prius from them - simple, efficient, and saved a $900 Dealer fee that local dealers charged. They are a 70 year old dealership and have leverage over the cartel of SE Toyota region which enforces the Dealer Fee in other dealers. So pleased I did not beckon to these other dealer's tactics but still received great service from local Phillips Toyota. No longer have the Prius (was great for the 6 years we have it tho... 3 friends bought their new Toyotas from ES as well, and very pleased.

Earl Stewart Toyota of North Palm Beach: Toyota Dealer in Lake Park serving Palm Beach County (https://www.earlstewarttoyota.com/)

From their site>
Dealer fees are charges added to the price of a car. They appear alongside legitimate state fees, like title and registration, but they are anything but legitimate. Dealer fees represent nothing but additional, hidden profit to the dealer.
Dealer fees allow dealers to advertise prices far below what they will actually sell the car for, and then tack on these bogus charges after a price has been agreed upon.

How much are dealer fees? A lot! Dealer fees range from as low as $299 to well over $2,000! They also have many different names, just to make things even more confusing: doc fees, dealer prep, dealer services, etc…

Earl Stewart Toyota believes a fair price, offered up front without haggling and without bogus add-on fees, is the honest way to do business!
In my opinion, you didn't save anything. I would have not have even considered paying a $900 fee, or any dealer fee.

[l2ridehd]

I always tell any sales rep I want the out the door price only. And if once we are on a price, I see even one penny of added on anything I will walk away.

[retiredguy123]

I always tell any sales rep I want the out the door price only. And if once we are on a price, I see even one penny of added on anything I will walk away.
That is very smart. Engaging the dealer in a discussion about anything other than the out-the-door price is counterproductive. The dealer will run rings around you with endless discussions about individual fees and other charges. Don't fall for it. The only thing to talk about is the amount you are going to write down on your check. I even refuse to sit at their stupid little desk. They need to talk to me in the waiting room or outside while I drink their free coffee and bottled water.

[tuccillo]

I went to the new car show at Sumter Landing a few weekends ago. Some of the nearby dealers had a second invoice sticker on the window with the "dealer add-ones" such as pin stripes, nitrogen filled tires, etc. for an additional $4000. Laughable.




I always tell any sales rep I want the out the door price only. And if once we are on a price, I see even one penny of added on anything I will walk away.

[Wiotte]

I went to the new car show at Sumter Landing a few weekends ago. Some of the nearby dealers had a second invoice sticker on the window with the "dealer add-ones" such as pin stripes, nitrogen filled tires, etc. for an additional $4000. Laughable.



Oh yeah, those so called pinstripes. They look as if Ray Charles installed them. Absolute garbage, cheap vinyl stick on’s. Where “I” come from I always asked the dealer to throw in the pin striping. An artist would show up and use real paint with a brush freehand and it always came out perfect. There is a very severe shortage of any competency around here. In all the trades.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[John_W]

In 2011 Hyundai came out with the Veloster, a 3 door fastback, I thought it looked neat but the reviews said it was a real dog. It only had 1.6 litre 138 HP engine. In 2012 I read they were releasing the 2013 with an optional 2.0 Litre 201 HP Turbo engine and the reviews were pretty good. They said they should arrive in the US late 2012.

In the summer of 2012 I started scanning autotrader.com for within 100 miles of TV for such a car and contacted a sales person at Jenkins in Ocala, who didn't know when they might get one. Besides the color they only have two choices, stick or automatic and optional sunroof/navigation package for $3500. I needed the automatic for my wife so she could drive and I didn't want to spend extra for the other.

There is a Veloster forum and I found out a ship with 725 Veloster turbos had docked in California in August and dealers in the northeast were getting stock of turbos, but were asking $1,000 above list, kind of like the days of the Mazda Miata. The list for a Veloster turbo with automatic and without the roof/nav was $23,925. In September I found a few in the Orlando area but they either had a stick shift or were red or black in color. I wanted either Ironman Silver or white.

Finally a dealer in Lakeland and dealer in Winter Haven both had a Silver automatic. I read reviews on the two dealers since they were only about ten miles apart. The Lakeland dealer was not good to deal with, a lot of bad feedback. The Winter Haven dealer was Red Hoagland Hyundai on Cypress Gardens Blvd and they had great reviews. They had the car listed on their site with actual photos for the llst price, no added prices or options. Floor mats, trunks nets, spare tire, it was all included at no extra price. I called the dealer's internet sales person and he walked out to the car with the phone and asked if I had any questions. It seems just right, so I told them I would be there in two hours.

Before I left I checked KBB.com for the price I should pay. They actually said $22,600, that was over a thousand less than list and with dealers in the north asking above list, I was somewhat hesistant to believe that. I checked my trade in price. I had a 2011 Mazda 3 Grand Touring with leather & sunroof and automatic. It said I should get $16,600 on trade for a new car.

I drove to the dealer, test drove the car, told them this is what I wanted to pay and this is what I want for my Mazda on trade. In one minute they yes, and yes and I was out the door in an hour or so. That was on Oct 10, 2012. It turned out to be a great little car with no problems, good acceleration, good handling, good gas mileage, I just recently traded the car for a new 2017 Chevy Camaro 50th Anniversary Edition.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/UzuLeW55WvM/maxresdefault.jpg

[retiredguy123]

In 2011 Hyundai came out with the Veloster, a 3 door fastback, I thought it looked neat but the reviews said it was a real dog. It only had 1.6 litre 138 HP engine. In 2012 I read they were releasing the 2013 with an optional 2.0 Litre 201 HP Turbo engine and the reviews were pretty good. They said they should arrive in the US late 2012.

In the summer of 2012 I started scanning autotrader.com for within 100 miles of TV for such a car and contacted a sales person at Jenkins in Ocala, who didn't know when they might get one. Besides the color they only have two choices, stick or automatic and optional sunroof/navigation package for $3500. I needed the automatic for my wife so she could drive and I didn't want to spend extra for the other.

There is a Veloster forum and I found out a ship with 725 Veloster turbos had docked in California in August and dealers in the northeast were getting stock of turbos, but were asking $1,000 above list, kind of like the days of the Mazda Miata. The list for a Veloster turbo with automatic and without the roof/nav was $23,925. In September I found a few in the Orlando area but they either had a stick shift or were red or black in color. I wanted either Ironman Silver or white.

Finally a dealer in Lakeland and dealer in Winter Haven both had a Silver automatic. I read reviews on the two dealers since they were only about ten miles apart. The Lakeland dealer was not good to deal with, a lot of bad feedback. The Winter Haven dealer was Red Hoagland Hyundai on Cypress Gardens Blvd and they had great reviews. They had the car listed on their site with actual photos for the llst price, no added prices or options. Floor mats, trunks nets, spare tire, it was all included at no extra price. I called the dealer's internet sales person and he walked out to the car with the phone and asked if I had any questions. It seems just right, so I told them I would be there in two hours.

Before I left I checked KBB.com for the price I should pay. They actually said $22,600, that was over a thousand less than list and with dealers in the north asking above list, I was somewhat hesistant to believe that. I checked my trade in price. I had a 2011 Mazda 3 Grand Touring with leather & sunroof and automatic. It said I should get $16,600 on trade for a new car.

I drove to the dealer, test drove the car, told them this is what I wanted to pay and this is what I want for my Mazda on trade. In one minute they yes, and yes and I was out the door in an hour or so. That was on Oct 10, 2012. It turned out to be a great little car with no problems, good acceleration, good handling, good gas mileage, I just recently traded the car for a new 2017 Chevy Camaro 50th Anniversary Edition.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/UzuLeW55WvM/maxresdefault.jpg
Yeah, but the KBB price didn't include any doc fees. How do you sleep at night knowing that the dealer had to pay those doc fees out of his pocket?

[geofitz13]

Allow me to play devil's advocate. People refer to "sticker price." It is actually "Manufacturer's SUGGESTED Retail Price." It is also called the "Monroney sticker", after the legislator who introduced the law in congress. The idea was to attempt to level the playing field, where a standard price for each model is shown, as a starting point. Before the Monroney law, sellers could quote any price that popped into their heads. Note that is it a suggested price. Why is it acceptable for a consumer to demand a discount, but condemn a dealer who asks for more? It is all based on supply and demand. Pick the car you want. Determine what you want to pay, including all taxes, registration and any accessories or add ons. If you can swing the deal, good for you. If you cannot, it's obviously because your price was too low. Dealers do not walk away from deals if there is a profit. Do not take it personally, it is a transaction, and if it is good for both parties, it will be completed. If it does not satisfy both parties, there is no deal.

[Toymeister]

What is the general consensus on the wholesale clubs (Sam's or Costco) car buying/referral services. I understand they deal with bottom line pricing, and effectively deal with these add on fees. Am I mistaken?

[Viperguy]

That's why they need to salary their sales staff. Bought my last new car on line. No tricks. JMHO

[fred53]

Yeah...my guess is that fee they claim they don't charge is always put somewhere else on the bill and called something more palatable. I base my cost on what the car cost the dealer and add no more than 5%.

[retiredguy123]

What is the general consensus on the wholesale clubs (Sam's or Costco) car buying/referral services. I understand they deal with bottom line pricing, and effectively deal with these add on fees. Am I mistaken?
I think that, if you do your homework, you will get a better deal than using a buying service. Also, I think that some dealers use the buying service as a way to get you in the door and then do a bait and switch. Although, I hope Costco and Sam's are doing some follow-up to prevent this kind of thing from happening. I would ask them for names of dealers they have removed from their service for that reason. If you use a buying service, make sure that the exact car you are buying is actually located on the lot at the dealership where you are going to buy the car, and that you know the out-the-door price in advance. Do not fall for the dealer tactic where you pay a deposit, so the dealer can have the car you want delivered from another dealer's lot. You will never get the deposit back and you may never see the exact car that you expected to get.

[retiredguy123]

Allow me to play devil's advocate. People refer to "sticker price." It is actually "Manufacturer's SUGGESTED Retail Price." It is also called the "Monroney sticker", after the legislator who introduced the law in congress. The idea was to attempt to level the playing field, where a standard price for each model is shown, as a starting point. Before the Monroney law, sellers could quote any price that popped into their heads. Note that is it a suggested price. Why is it acceptable for a consumer to demand a discount, but condemn a dealer who asks for more? It is all based on supply and demand. Pick the car you want. Determine what you want to pay, including all taxes, registration and any accessories or add ons. If you can swing the deal, good for you. If you cannot, it's obviously because your price was too low. Dealers do not walk away from deals if there is a profit. Do not take it personally, it is a transaction, and if it is good for both parties, it will be completed. If it does not satisfy both parties, there is no deal.
I agree with most of what you say, except that the sticker price law has been compromised by manufacturers using rebates. When a car has a rebate, they have effectively changed the MSRP. Almost all cars sold now have some kind of rebate, so you cannot really compare car prices by just looking at the window sticker.

[Topspinmo]

Allow me to play devil's advocate. People refer to "sticker price." It is actually "Manufacturer's SUGGESTED Retail Price." It is also called the "Monroney sticker", after the legislator who introduced the law in congress. The idea was to attempt to level the playing field, where a standard price for each model is shown, as a starting point. Before the Monroney law, sellers could quote any price that popped into their heads. Note that is it a suggested price. Why is it acceptable for a consumer to demand a discount, but condemn a dealer who asks for more? It is all based on supply and demand. Pick the car you want. Determine what you want to pay, including all taxes, registration and any accessories or add ons. If you can swing the deal, good for you. If you cannot, it's obviously because your price was too low. Dealers do not walk away from deals if there is a profit. Do not take it personally, it is a transaction, and if it is good for both parties, it will be completed. If it does not satisfy both parties, there is no deal.

Dealers do not walk away from deals if they can pick you pockets clean.

I agree They WILL NOT do the deal if they are not making certain amount. they will make you think you got good deal and they gave the car away, but if they do that they won't be in the business long. IMO the WILL make 3k or more or they won't trade, they have too to stay in business. Trading is the worse thing you can do if you have good car, (but most don't want to go through the hassle of private sale.) They're going to want it WAY under the value. Make enough trades and sells after awhile all used cars on the lot are pure profit.

[Topspinmo]

I agree with most of what you say, except that the sticker price law has been compromised by manufacturers using rebates. When a car has a rebate, they have effectively changed the MSRP. Almost all cars sold now have some kind of rebate, so you cannot really compare car prices by just looking at the window sticker.

that's cause they are over priced and even with rebates they still will make they're minimum profit or they WON'T do the deal.

[geofitz13]

Dealers do not walk away from deals if they can pick you pockets clean.

I agree They WILL NOT do the deal if they are not making certain amount. they will make you think you got good deal and they gave the car away, but if they do that they won't be in the business long. IMO the WILL make 3k or more or they won't trade, they have too to stay in business. Trading is the worse thing you can do if you have good car, (but most don't want to go through the hassle of private sale.) They're going to want it WAY under the value. Make enough trades and sells after awhile all used cars on the lot are pure profit.

The average profit on a new car deal in the U.S. in 2016 was less than $1000. This includes the direct profit on the vehicle sale, and any profit from dealer incentives, aftermarket sales, such as warranties, etc. Keep in mind that this is the AVERAGE profit. Do dealers make $3k profit on some sales? Absolutely. Do they actually lose money on some sales. Again, absolutely. There seems to be a belief that dealers make obscene profits. Would you invest $30k in order to make a profit of $1,000? I doubt it. And I haven't even mention the overhead. Well over $200k per month overhead at the average new car dealer. As far as trades, you are correct. The worst thing you can do is trade it. But you could sell it privately to someone who thinks you are charging way too much and wants a perfect car. If something goes wrong, they are probably coming back at you. Consumers think that sellers owe them everything. And when you sell your car privately, YOU are the seller.
Are there some dishonest dealers out there? Absolutely, but they are in the minority. They are investing too much money to put it in jeopardy for a couple questionable sales.

[geofitz13]

Retiredguy makes some good points. Rebates can confuse the situation, but if you are looking at a Ford XXX with certain equipment at one dealer, then the identical vehicle at another dealer has the same MSRP. Again, this was meant to be a starting point. As far as "swaps" are concerned, I have purchased several cars this way and never had a problem. I have also arranged swaps for customers, and on the RARE occasion that something happened and we could not get the exact car the customer wanted, the choice was up to the customer. Accept the car we could get, or get his deposit refunded.
If you saw the audited financials from most dealers, you would wonder why they stay in business.