Home prices still dropping?

[JimJoe]

I just read an article called Homes: About to get much cheaper... on cnn.com in their money section. It says housing prices will continue to fall until mid 2010. The fall is expected on average to be an additional 11% and up to 27% in some areas.
I think homes in the villages are somewhat immune to the housing bubble but I do think they are still dropping. Will they drop another 11% by mid summer? What do you think?

[golfnut]

no...gn

[F16 1UB]

no...gn

New homes no. You still have the opportunity to negotiate with pre-owned. A Realtor I talked to at the pool last week told me she'd had the best Sep she'd ever had selling 6 new & 1 pre-owned home.

[katezbox]

Some resale villas seem to selling in a matter of days.... Since most speculators could not purchase much in TV due to the 80/20 rule, I think this kept the prices from rising to the degree they did elsewhere in Florida - and what doesn't go up as much (hopefully) doesn't go down as much..

[dfn8tly]

I agree about the prices leveling out and starting to rise again in TV. I'd be shocked to see another 11% decrease. Markets in other parts of the country are still quite volatile. Speculators and second, or more, home owners are getting strapped for cash as their companies and investments struggle. If you're going to worry about it too much, perhaps you shouldn't do it.

[bargee]

I think that ship has sailed.In a village of 150 homes only one for sale and their asking top dollar.

[champion6]

Lyle Gant is a local Realtor and a member of this forum. His website has a lot of information.

This is one of his pages:
http://www.lylesellsfla.com/The_Villages_FL_listings/open_houses.shtml

In The Villages section, click on the Villages Market Analysis 6/09 link. The data is only through June 2009, but the yellow Average Sales Price trend is upward.

[SteveFromNY]

According to Zillow, my house in TV has gone up slightly in value since I bought it 4 1/2 years ago. Recently (last 30 days) it's up 1%. It seems there is a slight upward trend in the Zillow price chart recently. (of course, there was a HUGE bubble between then and now that has disappeared). It was never worth less than what I paid (again, per zillow.com)
But it doesn't matter to me as I have no immediate or even distant plans to sell.
If the home you are selling and the home you are buying are both moving in the same direction, it almost doesn't matter when you sell/buy. If TV prices are trending up, and your old home is trending down, it may make sense (if it's possible) to buy in TV and sell the old home when it has trended up.
Personally, unless you're speculating and wish to sell your TV home anytime soon, I'd say now is a good time to buy.

[philnpat]

We did buy last week!...Even if the value does decrease, we're still happy we did it.
Future Duvalians,
Phil and Pat

[Boomer]

Will TV's prices drop like some general statement, in some article, on some website, predicts will happen overall?

Maybe? Maybe not?

Could prices go lower?.......... Sure they could.

Will prices bubble around at a relatively flat spot for a while?........ Possibly. Even probably.

Will prices suddenly spike?.......... I don't think so.

But the generalities can't really be applied to TV anyway. It is unique. And there is a nuance in the retirement home market that does not exist in other markets. That’s where the potential buyers who are considering a second home come in. And it is possible that second home sales have slowed more than the primary residence market in TV. Snowbirds may be buying in at the less expensive end, more often than they were a few years ago when they felt like they could easily sell if they decided they wanted to. Or they may just be taking their time with the decision to buy a second home. Those second home stats factor into retirement markets but nowhere else. Numbers are still numbers, I know. But even so, the second home buyers have to be a factor, in addition to those who are taking longer to sell and move to TV full time.

Instead of putting too much thought into all those stats that are flung around by a media with too much space to fill, I think potential buyers of retirement homes need to look first at what they can do and what they want to do.

And once you know TV is it, now is probably as good a time as any.

Not because you think prices are at their lowest. Not because you think you can flip the house. Not because you think there is going to be some big spike in real estate.

But because you have done your homework and asked yourself a lot of questions and you know that you are a ready, willing, and able buyer who wants to live in TV.

Once you know you have found the place you are pretty darned sure you want to call home....or second home....at this point in life, crunch your own numbers and then do it if you can. I think that’s the real bottom line in today's real estate for retirement.

Boomer

[katezbox]

Will TV's prices drop like some general statement, in some article, on some website, predicts will happen overall?

Maybe? Maybe not?

Could prices go lower?.......... Sure they could.

Will prices bubble around at a relatively flat spot for a while?........ Possibly. Even probably.

Will prices suddenly spike?.......... I don't think so.

But the generalities can't really be applied to TV anyway. It is unique. And there is a nuance in the retirement home market that does not exist in other markets. That’s where the potential buyers who are considering a second home come in. And it is possible that second home sales have slowed more than the primary residence market in TV. Snowbirds may be buying in at the less expensive end, more often than they were a few years ago when they felt like they could easily sell if they decided they wanted to. Or they may just be taking their time with the decision to buy a second home. Those second home stats factor into retirement markets but nowhere else. Numbers are still numbers, I know. But even so, the second=home buyers have to be a factor, in addition to those who are taking longer to sell and move to TV full time.

Instead of putting too much thought into all those stats that are flung around by a media with too much space to fill, I think potential buyers of retirement homes need to look first at what they can do and what they want to do.

And once you know TV is it, now is probably as good a time as any.

Not because you think prices are at their lowest. Not because you think you can flip the house. Not because you think there is going to be some big spike in real estate.

But because you have done your homework and asked yourself a lot of questions and you know that you are a ready, willing, and able buyer who wants to live in TV.

Once you know you have found the place you are pretty darned sure you want to call home....or second home....at this point in life, crunch your own numbers and then do it if you can. I think that’s the real bottom line in today's real estate for retirement.

Boomer

:agree:

[sorr1996]

I thoroughly agree with your statement. After staying a month in the Villages we knew we would move and do everything possible to sell our house. People here in our retirement community thought you are crazy thinking you will sell your house fast and move. Our reply was, "watch us, we are going to TV for we are not getting any younger and this is where we belong". Priced it low right from the start and sold it two weeks later. We are awaiting the closing. We are just going to find the house that is right for us and not start worrying if we got the lowest price that we could possibly get but just say, "hey, it was a good deal for both parties". That is what happened to us. The buyer and us the sellers hugged an enjoyed an hour of talking and laughing over some wine. Win, win situation!
How many quality years do we all have left????
Our motto is "WE ARE RETIRED....OUR JOB IS HAVING FUN"

Looking forward to a lot of fun in TV!!

[mzmom3]

TV is unique as we've all experienced. Prices may fluctuate some; however, I feel this is a solid place to be. People want to buy into this lifestyle; and remember, they can chose how much they want to do or not do.

There is a freedom here I haven't experienced elsewhere. I know some people think we stick our heads in the sand.........but I for one love to come down and just get away from all the news in Washington and elsewhere that I don't seem to be able to excape while I'm up North.

Happy Snowbird..........took us a while but we're here.

[wmarsh]

Will prices drop?

No way to know, but, if my wife is right, and the current 'recovery' turns out to be a 'dead cat bounce' and the economy starts to tank again next year, prices could drop.

We're trying to sell our home in DC next summer and buy in TV, and sales have increased around here, but prices have more or less stabilized, they haven't gone up. I expect this will be the case next year as well.

[2 Oldcrabs]

The $8k tax credit has the housing market moving again. Can the numbers continue? One economist predicted that by 2011, 50% of the mortages in the country will be "under water". Does not sound good for selling house up north.
Everyone needs to look closely at their financial situation and make a rational decision not an emotional one.

LIFE IS SHORT BUT YOU NEED ENOUGH MONEY TO GET TO THE END

[Russ_Boston]

I agree with Boomer - A good portion of TV sales are from couples who wish to buy a retirement home. In other words they don't need to sell their 'north' home first to accomplish this. TV sales are increasing slightly and the prices seem stable over the past 6 months - possibly due to this? In other words 'buy low now in TV' 'sell high up north in 10 years'.

This is what we are looking at. Buying next year in TV and maybe holding our northern home until some point in the future (or not:))

[Boomer]

The $8k tax credit has the housing market moving again. Can the numbers continue? One economist predicted that by 2011, 50% of the mortages in the country will be "under water". Does not sound good for selling house up north.
Everyone needs to look closely at their financial situation and make a rational decision not an emotional one.

LIFE IS SHORT BUT YOU NEED ENOUGH MONEY TO GET TO THE END

Hi 2 Oldcrabs,

What you say here about making a rational decision and not an emotional one is so true. I call it my "cost of sleep" factor.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Individuals cannot look to the media or to the sales department when making the decision to buy a retirement home. Individuals must look really closely at their own numbers. And if the cash and cash flow are in place, and will remain in place, and if the decision to buy a home is not based on projections of profit or income that are nothing more than hopeful guesses, then they will know they can do what they want to do......and still sleep at night.

I have been watching the TV real estate market since the late 90's. Long before I retired. I watched the cost of TV homes skyrocket and I would look out the window by my desk, looking at the snow sometimes, and I would think......well, I guess we missed the boat.

There was a point where I thought prices there were influenced by hurricanes on the coast that made Florida retirees head inland. Still within a reasonable distance from the ocean. Still plenty of sunshine. But not so much property risk.

And then Alan Greenspan lost his mind, along with a lot of other people, and the rest is now ugly real estate history that I am not so sure is history. I don't think it is all behind us.

I do not think the stock market tells us anything much anymore. I think the stock market is a self-absorbed, demanding :cus: that sees all those job cuts as only making profits better. And although I am invested in stocks, conservatively so, I do not look to the stock market to give me a read on the economy's future. To do that, I just look at what is going on around me. And now, more than ever before, individuals have to understand their own financial moves and be sure of not only what they want to do, but what they can do. 2010 is going to tell us a lot I think. Changes in tax cuts are up for grabs soon, among all those other influences out there.

We have visited TV only once so far when we rented for a month to try to really get the lay of the land. But it was just when the market was starting to change. We will be returning for another look.

And I have shared here before the parting shot I got from a TV real estate agent when we were leaving a model home Open House in late October 2007. She said, "You will be really sorry if you don't buy now at these prices."

And I thought to myself, "Uh huh, I wonder what your motivation could possibly be for saying that."

Like I said earlier in this thread, we are the only ones who can possibly know when we are the ready, willing, and able buyers. And "willing" is important, but it needs to be the least operative word in that phrase.

Sure there is the big picture that the media and the marketing department create as they go along. But now, for retirees especially, the truly big picture is, more than ever, the individual picture.

And like I also said a little earlier in this thread -- (btw, when it comes to the topic of real estate I really never shut up) -- I think that if you know you want to buy a home in TV and you can, now could be the time for reasons other than price.

Just remember -- to thine own numbers be true.

Boomer

[JimJoe]

IMHO now is a good time to buy in TV IF you intend to retire now. The economy is not recovering right now; it is responding to bailouts like the first time home buyer credit bandaide that will eventually fall off, the market will bleed, and prices will decline. I intend to keep my home for a few years and buy in TV within the next 2 years. I think late summer will be the price bottom. Prices will reach their 2003 level.
I almost bought an amarillo for 230k in 2007 because everyone was saying prices will continue to rise and you will never be able to buy in TV if you wait any longer. I am so glad I took my time. I can get one for 170k now. That is $60k or more savings IF I am successful in buying at 170k or less. Waiting for the price bottom is always a good idea IF you have the patience and are willing to take the risk that you are wrong and prices may suddenly rise.
I will be visiting TV for my 7th time this winter. Hope to see you all then.

[Indy-Guy]

When Knute Rockne was the first to use the forward pass and was told how smart he was his resposne was 3 things can happen and 2 aren't good.

Depending on which side of the fence you are on in home prices the same could be true.

[Boomer]

I am waiting for somebody to pick me up and so I gotta run in a minute, but there is an old thread on here called something like "U.S. Home Values Bottomed Out?" -- not sure of the title. might be interesting to read if you have not already. It's an old one.

Seeya.

Boomer

[2 Oldcrabs]

We have been here for almost a month looking at new and resale home. The prices for resales are 20 to 30 percent lower than a year ago. (some are higher but very few looking at them). "Village Property' sales seems to be pushing us toward new homes, which appear to be less than resales even when taking the higher bond into consideration. Multi-List are telling us to make an offer and that owners are taking 4-6 percent under asking price. Many Many for Sale by Owner. We have not found the perfect home for us, but we will be back!

[k2at]

I believe now is the time to buy if that is in your future. There are no crystal balls out there after having reviewed the last 3 years in the market. If one is willing to wait for a lower price, so be it. Caution though, the pendulum can just as easily go the other way and prices can rise.

The one sure thing u can count on is that there will be no movement upwards until employment improves.

One can be a little piggy and then watch as the train passes him by.

[Taj44]

We have been here for almost a month looking at new and resale home. The prices for resales are 20 to 30 percent lower than a year ago. (some are higher but very few looking at them). "Village Property' sales seems to be pushing us toward new homes, which appear to be less than resales even when taking the higher bond into consideration. Multi-List are telling us to make an offer and that owners are taking 4-6 percent under asking price. Many Many for Sale by Owner. We have not found the perfect home for us, but we will be back!

Don't the Village Propery sales people get a higher commission on new homes? I see to recall reading that somewhere. We had a friend selling her pre-owned home. Her bond was paid, she had spent $4000 on landscaping, curbing, etc., and in my opinion had a better location in the Villages then some of the new Villages where homes are being sold. When you made those adjustments in her asking price, her home compared favorably with the new homes. If you have to pay to have all that stuff done, including paying a bigger bond, go through the 6 months or year of waiting for contractors, getting estimates, etc., and waiting 3 or 4 years for the landscaping to get big enough to provide privacy, I'm not convinced that buying new is the way to go. And you would never pay the asking price on a used home, there will always be a discount. And the bonus is you know with a pre-owned exactly what you will have for a neighborhood and for neighbors. You won't wake up one morning and find you have a neighbor behind you with 2 barking dogs that never quit, and a blaring tv.

[Boomer]

If you think about it, it makes sense that TV agents would be given incentives to push new homes. I am not saying that they are. I don't know that for sure. I am not saying that it shouldn't be that way. I am just saying that it makes sense because surely the profit to TV would have to be bigger on new homes than on pre-owned. Wouldn't it? And it's a business after all.

TV's website is a powerful marketing tool, and I bet most potential buyers come in through that website and have been looking at all those pictures of all those homes for sale. Both new and pre-owned.

I remember being surprised that we needed to line up an agent from the MLS separately because TV and the MLS do not market or show or sell each other's listings. And I have wondered if it has always been that way or if that changed, and if so, when? Just curious about that.

I hope all potential buyers coming in know that they need to have an MLS agent to see MLS properties and that they will give the MLS a chance, too.

Boomer

[Ohiogirl]

Well, I for one didn't know when I bought, but I bought almost at the peak, (3.5 years ago) when resales were quite a bit higher than new, and I had to get on a waiting list to buy the new villa model I wanted. At that time, they were literally raising prices every couple of months and building like gangbusters.

When I asked our Villages agent about resales, she told me she could show resales to me, and she did - Villages resales, but the Villages didn't have any 3 bedroom resale Bonitas listed at that time. We saw some ranches that were comparably priced, but for various reasons decided on a CYV. I did notice that we weren't being shown any non-Villages properties, but there was SUCH a price difference at the time between resales and new that I didn't inquire further.

I'm sure if I would have asked about a specific one with a non-Villages sign, she would have told me that she couldn't show those, but since I was looking mainly at villas, didn't notice any signs to ask about - I think you can only put signs in the windows, and there were probably less because things were selling so well.

Not sure how long this website has been out there, but I didn't discover it until a year or so ago - there is some really helpful info here on TOTV that I wish I had known, but hey, don't we all have great hindsight, and not just about real estate! Those of you who are on it or have been before buying are much more educated that those of us who were not.

That said, there is still not the perfect house nor the perfect location - and I'm not just talking about the Villages. It's kind of like that song - Love the One You're With. Even if you check out the neighbors for barking dogs and loud TVs in existing neighborhoods, things changeover so frequently that next month

It turned out that we are very happy with what we bought and where it is, and probably there weren't many resales of the type of villa we wanted anyway.

[sorr1996]

We will definitely be coming out the first week of January an are looking at buying a two or three bedroom courtyard villa. We keep a binder with pictures of all the used we would like to see if they are still available. Some we have been following for months, others come and go quickly. Yes, the upgrades add up (how well we know for we sold our home and those hot tubs and backyard fireplaces, etc. are all just a given) and we hope to find a used home with the tile and flooring that we learned to love.
If one isn't available we know it will take time but we will buy an already built new and start all over making it our own.
We are just besides ourselves waiting for our closing on November 15th, give or take a day or two. Want that check in hand for total freedom.

Thank you for all your posts for we get so much valuable information on this site. We have been on and off lurking and writing once in awhile but the enthusiasm wasn't there until now when we sold this house. We are computer addicts!!!!

[Boomer]

......................
Thank you for all your posts for we get so much valuable information on this site. We have been on and off lurking and writing once in awhile but the enthusiasm wasn't there until now when we sold this house. We are computer addicts!!!!

Hi sorr1996,

You are so right about the valuable information to be found on this site. We have not bought yet, but when I began to get more serious about looking at TV, I knew there had to be more information out there than just what was on TV's website and in their advertising.

TOTV can show up on a Google search, but when we were there in 2007, I saw some TOTV advertising somewhere. I cannot remember if it was in "The Daily Sun" or if I picked up a little card from one of the shops or what it was. But now that is no more.

The Villages will not accept advertising from TOTV through any of their own sources. No ads in "The Daily Sun." No info on counters. Nada. (And I understand that from the marketing point of view from TV's angle. Unfair? Some may think so. I just think it is TV's control of their marketing machine. And that's OK. They own it and they have the right to do that. It is nothing more than a fact. Not much point in debating the issue.)

But obviously 10,000 members and who knows how many lurkers have managed to find their way here. And there is an absolute wealth of information in these archives. The "search" function is not always the easiest to use though. If you put quotation marks around a phrase you think might take you somewhere, that can help sometimes.

Once in a while, I start feeling like some kind of librarian, and I get the urge to just gather up all that real estate info in here and shelve it neatly in one place under its proper Dewey Decimal System number so that people can find the info easily. (But then I get up from the computer and go on with my real life and get over it.) But wow. There is a lot of useful stuff on here.

So anyway, have fun looking around and welcome.

Boomer

[TomW]

About a year ago, seveal of us were keeping statistics on TV home sales and we all generally agreed that home prices were down 18% from the peak. I've quit keep the numbers but my sense from watching the market closely is that the prices are continuing to go down but not at such a steep rate. The average selling price for resales has been 92% of the asking price. I have also observed an increase in short sales and foreclosures. As long as the interest rates stay down, it is probably as good a time as any to buy a resale. New houses seem to require more investigation. They did away with the ranch home series so now you go from cottage to designer. We will be attempting to calculate at what point it is better to upgrade a cottage or start over with a disigner with the desired features. Throw in the various bond amounts and lot premiums and you get quite a matrix. At this point it is an academic exercise in house hunting but will get increasingly serious as we hope to make a purchase next spring.

[silverado]

I think those people looking for tv life style, will pay for it . When building stops, I think that will only bring prices up.

[Barefoot]

Waiting for the price bottom is always a good idea IF you have the patience and are willing to take the risk that you are wrong and prices may suddenly rise.

The "price bottom" isn't a stagnant long-lasting place. And of course it is very difficult to predict, and to hit that particular moment in time. In my experience as a real estate broker, when prices do bottom out, it is like a bouncing ball. Prices will immediately start rising again.

And those who are waiting for the bottom will be sad to have missed it. And will be saying how they should have bought low when they had the chance, and how much money they've "lost".

We bought our Villages "vacation home" two years ago and we're so pleased that we did. We've had two wonderful winters in Paradise ... priceless! We've made many new friends and we absolutely love our time in TV. If we had rented, it would have cost us far more than the slight decrease we've experienced.

A long life isn't promised to any of us. Come have fun in TV while you're still healthy and able to enjoy it!

[784caroline]

Price is only one factor, all be it an important one, that one must consider in buying in The Villages or any major purchase. BUt if this is going to be your retirtement home or a place to spend winters from the cold north, just remember, if this is what you want, the years you can enjoy and appreciate "your want" are also declining. We are all at a point in life that we should do what is in our financial means and do it if this will be our enjoyment for years to come rather than worryng about future price increases or decreases.

Bottom line is you need to make a decision about where you want to be today and in 5-10 years from now. I would not use "Price" as the sole reason for any indecision compared to your personal well being. Things are much more affordable today than they were 2-3 years ago but the indecision to make a change is a greater deterrent than price.

[TomW]

We got a call from our Villages rep this morning. He said prices are going to increase modestly ($$=???) on November 16th for new homes. another friend in TV says prices of homes have increased 6.5% since their low. I don't know if he meant resales or new construction. Basically the trend appears to be slightly up in new construction. Interest rates are a larger concern in the overal calculation of what a TV house costs.

[Russ_Boston]

Interest rates are a larger concern in the overall calculation of what a TV house costs.

Wouldn't that be only if someone carried a mortgage? I saw a stat somewhere that stated that 65% of TV homes were purchased without a mortgage.

[Jerry8542]

Our Villages rep also told us that prices on new homes are going up on November 16. Does anyone know what the increase will be ?

[JimJoe]

Our Villages rep also told us that prices on new homes are going up on November 16. Does anyone know what the increase will be ?

Maybe the rep should go read the Villages New home website. This is what it says.

Find your dream home before November 30th to take advantage of special savings! Call today and let us help make your dreams come true! 1-800-346-4556

Which is it? the 16th or the 30th? The site is still showing discounts on most homes and more than 10% on some homes.

Prices will drop until at least midsummer.

[Barefoot]

We got a call from our Villages rep this morning. He said prices are going to increase modestly ($$=???) on November 16th for new homes. another friend in TV says prices of homes have increased 6.5% since their low. I don't know if he meant resales or new construction. Basically the trend appears to be slightly up in new construction. Interest rates are a larger concern in the overal calculation of what a TV house costs.

The Village Reps have been telling me for two years that prices on new homes will be increasing because the cost of building supplies and shipping are increasing.

And yet .. prices keep dropping.

The Village Reps would like you to believe that the TV market is unique and unaffected by what transpires in the real world. Not true.

[otherbruddaDarrell]

I am not a big fan of ANY sales reps. Be it homes, cars, condos,appliances,home health,home health, did I mention home health!
My experience with most anyone in sales is that they will say anything to make a sale.
:throwtomatoes:

[TomW]

They have had the 3% discount on new construction in effect for several months. The advertising always reads that it is good through the end of the current month (i.e. Nov 30th) but then it appeares again the following month, so far. The price they are discounting FROM is slated to rise on Nov 16th. I haven't heard how much of an increase they plan on making. I also thought I heard the senate committee passed the extension of the homebuyer credit that included provisions for current homeowners as well. Hopefully it will pass the house as well.

Russ: Yes, it would only matter if one wished to carry a mortgage. My theory is that one can invest the money at a better return than the cost of borrowing and enjoy the mortgage interest deduction on the federal taxes as well. But I know there are many who feel more secure owning their homes outright for various reasons.

[Larryandlinda]

If you went to buy on December 1, does anyone think they would sae "Sorry, the sale is over, you missed it by a day!"
puh-leeze!
You buy it once, live in and with it forever.
The sweetness of the most killer 'deal' will wear off long before the bitterness of having a place you don't like.

L and L

[73Goat]

We got a call from our Villages rep this morning. He said prices are going to increase modestly ($$=???) on November 16th for new homes. another friend in TV says prices of homes have increased 6.5% since their low. I don't know if he meant resales or new construction. Basically the trend appears to be slightly up in new construction. Interest rates are a larger concern in the overal calculation of what a TV house costs.

Wow, you actually got a call from your Sales Rep? We've been working with one for 2.5 years and she's NEVER called us. On our last trip to TV in April she did feed us the idea that 'prices will be increasing 'soon' because of incresed materials costs so we better buy now. Not that it appears to have happened.

If the prices for new construction are too much out of line with equivalent resales when we come to buy next summer, we'll take a resale.

[BobKat1]

There still appears to be a lot of new and resale inventory in TV. That should keep prices down or at their current levels for a while longer.

[captain1202]

Larry & Linda... You don't know The Villages. When the sale is over it's over. BUT, there's usually another one right behind it. Kind of like a furniture store. Oh, they have a couple of those too.

[Larryandlinda]

Larry & Linda... You don't know The Villages. When the sale is over it's over. BUT, there's usually another one right behind it. Kind of like a furniture store. Oh, they have a couple of those too.
That makes sense. There should always be something of an opportunity at any given time.
Better the check in the till than the house on the lawn!
We made up our minds quickly on both our Rancher and premiere.
We used an outside MLS agent to help find the rancher and he was very good , driving us around and giving us a huge stack of prints.
Since then we have learned how to look and have frequently perused one the local MLS agents that specializes in TV properties.
Whether or not it was a Villages listing or an independent did not matter, but we did know what we wanted and when we saw one, it was then a mater of getting it.
we were a little on the fence, so we made what we thought was a low offer and said 'if they take it, we're getting it"
both places are rented for winter but we liked summer enough to come back often till were permanent
L and L