Single Payer Health Insurance

[pickleball119]

Seems like a decent idea to me and the idea has been floating around for quite a while ( I think Bernie Sanders talked about it ).
Would like to start a discussion on this forum regarding that subject.
To my knowledge, many countries have it and it works.
Yes--I have heard horror stories about it and have heard it is NOT working in Canada. BUT--I have talked with Canadian citizens that are happy with it.
Seems to me like it would work a lot like medicare--and I don't have a problem with that.
Yes--it would be a "government run" program and I have heard the complaint calling it by that "bad name" of socialized medicine. I'm not sure socialized medicine is such a bad thing.
One thing I do know is that EVERY citizen SHOULD be covered by good health insurance.
My guess is I am going to hear from a lot of people
with different opinions--but it should be a learning experience for all of us.
I was recently told by a retired doctor that, in his opinion, it "is the way to go".
Your thoughts?

[KSSunshine]

Seems like a decent idea to me and the idea has been floating around for quite a while ( I think Bernie Sanders talked about it ).
Would like to start a discussion on this forum regarding that subject.
To my knowledge, many countries have it and it works.
Yes--I have heard horror stories about it and have heard it is NOT working in Canada. BUT--I have talked with Canadian citizens that are happy with it.
Seems to me like it would work a lot like medicare--and I don't have a problem with that.
Yes--it would be a "government run" program and I have heard the complaint calling it by that "bad name" of socialized medicine. I'm not sure socialized medicine is such a bad thing.
One thing I do know is that EVERY citizen SHOULD be covered by good health insurance.
My guess is I am going to hear from a lot of people
with different opinions--but it should be a learning experience for all of us.
I was recently told by a retired doctor that, in his opinion, it "is the way to go".
Your thoughts?


Around August 31 or early September 2016, the Vancouver Newspaper had a rather long feature article discussing the problem with the Canadian system. The issue was that the Canadian system morphed into a two-tiered system. Citizens who could afford it, purchased private health insurance, in essence allowing for Doctors in Canada that would take their private insurance granting them priority access to medical services. Some purchased health care insurance that would allow them the option to come to the USA for their medical care. This left the Canadian citizen who couldn't afford private insurance with long waits for what we take for granted (if we have health insurance or Medicaid. Not sure about Medicare just yet.). Years before (about 2000-03), I worked with a Toronto family whose child had a significant disability, but had purchased private insurance that they would utilize in Detroit.
Additionally, a family (I worked with the wife) was transferred to Calgary, but found the health care system so bad, that the wife refused to stay unless the company provided USA insurance that they could cross the border to get their family's medical care in Montana. Not saying either way about how that could be better implemented in the USA, but trying to illustrate that the Canadian system works for some and not for others. Nice to hear that you know people who it works for!

[MikeV]

Nope,


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Challenger]

Political!

If we can discuss important issues because so one calls them political ,this forum becomes a gossip column.

Social Security was "bad mouthed" for years with attempts early on to repeal. Few would favor repeal today. Health care is a vital issue which deserves as much public discussion as possible without artificial restraints.

[njbchbum]

Will everyone pay for their insurance or will there still be Medicaid?
Will charity care and uncompensated care funds be eliminated or remain in the program?
Who will set the price for health insurance and services - government or health providers?
Who will administer the program - government or outsourced by contract?
What happens when the single payer program runs short of $$ - just raise our taxes?

[JoMar]

Not sure of the health of the Canadians you talked to but those in our age bracket that live there (including a family member) usually travel to the US when a significant or emergency procedure is needed. The taxation to support the program is significant. There is no incentive since all health care compensation is regulated so doctor to patient ratios are low (not enough doctors) and waiting lists do exist. I suspect, like everything political, it depends on your agenda and "what works for you". Long way to get to my position......Nope

[mtdjed]

Deleted by choice

[clekr]

Are you willing to pay the 50 + tax rate that goes along with it?

[GoodLife]

I was recently told by a retired doctor that, in his opinion, it "is the way to go".
Your thoughts?

This should have been your first clue.

[EPutnam1863]

My sister, when she broke her hip, was in a ward where she was the only female, and her 7 roommates were male. She lives in Canada.

Her doctor refused to prescribe sleeping pills for her because he was afraid he would get into trouble.

She asked for a female doctor when she was advised to have a pap smear. After 15 years she is still waiting.

In England bacxk in 1995 gasoline cost $10.00 to help pay for the health care.

BUT when our son, while visiting London, got something in one of his eyes. He walked to the nearest hospital at 2:30 am, and they treated him and gave him antibiotics for free.

[Steve9930]

Seems like a decent idea to me and the idea has been floating around for quite a while ( I think Bernie Sanders talked about it ).
Would like to start a discussion on this forum regarding that subject.
To my knowledge, many countries have it and it works.
Yes--I have heard horror stories about it and have heard it is NOT working in Canada. BUT--I have talked with Canadian citizens that are happy with it.
Seems to me like it would work a lot like medicare--and I don't have a problem with that.
Yes--it would be a "government run" program and I have heard the complaint calling it by that "bad name" of socialized medicine. I'm not sure socialized medicine is such a bad thing.
One thing I do know is that EVERY citizen SHOULD be covered by good health insurance.
My guess is I am going to hear from a lot of people
with different opinions--but it should be a learning experience for all of us.
I was recently told by a retired doctor that, in his opinion, it "is the way to go".
Your thoughts?

Competition works. With single payer you have no competition. Also what Government program now being run by the Government runs efficiently at lowest cost levels? Chile has a single payer socialized medical system. Guess who uses it, those that cannot afford to buy their own. We will always have those that cannot afford the Health Insurance and we should take care of them when they really need the service. However lets try full competition across state lines first. Remember when was the last Government Run entity that was repealed after it was put into effect.

[golfing eagles]

Seems like a decent idea to me and the idea has been floating around for quite a while ( I think Bernie Sanders talked about it ).
Would like to start a discussion on this forum regarding that subject.
To my knowledge, many countries have it and it works.
Yes--I have heard horror stories about it and have heard it is NOT working in Canada. BUT--I have talked with Canadian citizens that are happy with it.
Seems to me like it would work a lot like medicare--and I don't have a problem with that.
Yes--it would be a "government run" program and I have heard the complaint calling it by that "bad name" of socialized medicine. I'm not sure socialized medicine is such a bad thing.
One thing I do know is that EVERY citizen SHOULD be covered by good health insurance.
My guess is I am going to hear from a lot of people
with different opinions--but it should be a learning experience for all of us.
I was recently told by a retired doctor that, in his opinion, it "is the way to go".
Your thoughts?

All I can say is---Be careful what you wish for.

[manaboutown]

SOCIALIST PARADISE: UK Cancels ALL ROUTINE OPERATIONS Due to Overcrowding | Sean Hannity (https://www.hannity.com/media-room/socialist-paradise-uk-cancels-all-routine-operations-due-to-overcrowding/)

[rustyp]

Isn't medicare a single payer socialized medicine system ?

[Steve9930]

SOCIALIST PARADISE: UK Cancels ALL ROUTINE OPERATIONS Due to Overcrowding | Sean Hannity (https://www.hannity.com/media-room/socialist-paradise-uk-cancels-all-routine-operations-due-to-overcrowding/)

The Village area is a glimpse of what single payer might be like. Most here in the Area have Health Insurance. How easy is it to get an appointment to see a Doctor if its a non-scheduled visit? My Doctor and Dentist visits are schedule months in advance.

[Steve9930]

Isn't medicare a single payer socialized medicine system ?

Yes, it is a single payer system. How solvent is Medicare? Medicare does not cover all the expenses either. You still have costs involved. Look at the financial burden for Medicare. Now imagine everyone on the same plan. I'd still like to see full competition between companies, across state lines. Use the same model as Auto Insurance. Remember the premium you pay for Medicare is only a portion of the cost of providing you with Medicare Health Insurance. This is not going to be an easy problem to solve. However I do know one thing. Let the Government take total control and things will not get better. Once established in a Government Program its here forever.

[manaboutown]

Just look at the poor service record of the US post office, formerly a government monopoly. Thank God for UPS and FedEx!

[rustyp]

Yes, it is a single payer system. How solvent is Medicare? Medicare does not cover all the expenses either. You still have costs involved. Look at the financial burden for Medicare. Now imagine everyone on the same plan. I'd still like to see full competition between companies, across state lines. Use the same model as Auto Insurance. Remember the premium you pay for Medicare is only a portion of the cost of providing you with Medicare Health Insurance. This is not going to be an easy problem to solve. However I do know one thing. Let the Government take total control and things will not get better. Once established in a Government Program its here forever.

There is competition across insurance companies for Medicare. That is why some plans offer above what normal medicare covers at zero premium. Thus in theory you are correct I.E. supply and demand. However this country has allowed monopoly to be an accepted practice thus given the opportunity the insurance companies will form cartels and not compete. The government will have to be involved one way or another. An aside I averaged $20000/yr for two for medical expenses for ten years before medicare. I think it's the best thing since tab top beer cans.

[JoMar]

The Village area is a glimpse of what single payer might be like. Most here in the Area have Health Insurance. How easy is it to get an appointment to see a Doctor if its a non-scheduled visit? My Doctor and Dentist visits are schedule months in advance.

I am in TV health system and can see a doctor or PA whenever I need to .....might be at a different Care Center but since here I have had no issues getting same day appointment when needed. Competition is good.

[Dan9871]

I am in TV health system and can see a doctor or PA whenever I need to

Likewise...

Both my wife and I have had no trouble getting same day appointments with Villages Health. Some times with our PCP, sometimes with another doc' or an NP.

When my wife had some recurring issues she would get a same day appointment with an NP but her PCP would come into the appointment too.

[pickleball119]

I am the original poster of this subject. As expected--lots of pros and cons coming in. Keep them coming--as it is a learning experience for all of us.

[Fredster]

I am the original poster of this subject. As expected--lots of pros and cons coming in. Keep them coming--as it is a learning experience for all of us.

I have one question for you to ponder OP,
can you give me the name of one large government program
that is run in a cost effective and efficient manner?

[Steve9930]

So what is the real premium for Medicare? Total cost? I understand based on income you pay a different premium but what is the Total Premium?

[l2ridehd]

Our health care system has so many problems that adding this idea would probably cause it to collapse. There are many other things that need to get fixed first.

1. Tort reform is such a huge issue and cost drag on health care. And yes there are those that will claim it's cost it very little and that is so not true. Most doctors and Nurses spend 50% of there time documenting what they do to protect them against law suits. Requirement for needed health documentation? Less then 10% of their time. Add another 40% because of our legal system. Then add on the settlement costs.

2. User paper work for insurance reimbursement. I just can't believe how difficult that has become. I honestly believe they make it as convoluted and esoteric as possible to limit payments. It could be so simple, but they have made it so hard I give up lots of money due because it is so hard to recover.

3. Federal approval of new drugs and procedures. Cost adds on such a significant amount to our drug cost. Just check the price any US drug vs the exact same drug from another country. Anywhere from 100 to 400 times more expensive here. That is just crazy.

There are so many more easy to solve problems, but fix just these 3 and health care cost would be cut in half.

Single payer does nothing to solve these issues and just creates another ballooning government program to continue to drive up the cost. Today more people work in administering health care then work actually doing health care. That would just increase that problem.

And is one more step to socialism. We need to go in the exact opposite direction.

[Steve9930]

Our health care system has so many problems that adding this idea would probably cause it to collapse. There are many other things that need to get fixed first.

1. Tort reform is such a huge issue and cost drag on health care. And yes there are those that will claim it's cost it very little and that is so not true. Most doctors and Nurses spend 50% of there time documenting what they do to protect them against law suits. Requirement for needed health documentation? Less then 10% of their time. Add another 40% because of our legal system. Then add on the settlement costs.

2. User paper work for insurance reimbursement. I just can't believe how difficult that has become. I honestly believe they make it as convoluted and esoteric as possible to limit payments. It could be so simple, but they have made it so hard I give up lots of money due because it is so hard to recover.

3. Federal approval of new drugs and procedures. Cost adds on such a significant amount to our drug cost. Just check the price any US drug vs the exact same drug from another country. Anywhere from 100 to 400 times more expensive here. That is just crazy.

There are so many more easy to solve problems, but fix just these 3 and health care cost would be cut in half.

Single payer does nothing to solve these issues and just creates another ballooning government program to continue to drive up the cost. Today more people work in administering health care then work actually doing health care. That would just increase that problem.

And is one more step to socialism. We need to go in the exact opposite direction.

I lean toward your ideas but imagine this headline and the back lash that would follow: "Congress repeals Medicare. Goes to a full open Market System".

Many years ago I asked my family Doctor about his insurance costs. There was a debate then in Congress about Health Care costs. His practice was a group of 4 doctors and not affiliated with any healthcare group. His response was: "We have to see 300 patients per month total between all the Doctors just to cover the Malpractice Insurance Premium for the Business". This was not counting the staff, building, equipment, supplies, and their salaries.

I also hear you on the medical coding. Its meant to confuse. I remember when you went to the doctor, got out your check book, paid him, then sent the bill to the Insurance for your reimbursement of the cost. No big medical financial firm processing claims. Now its so complicated doctors employ a dedicated person just to interface with the business processing the claim. Or its sent to some outfit located far away with hundreds of people that do nothing but process insurance claims. Coded, denied, then re-coded, again, and again. What a waste of time and money. Not to mention by the time you get an invoice you can't even remember what it was all about in the first place.

I was one of the lucky ones. I had Medical Insurance through my employer until Medicare. Even after that they provided a secondary Insurance and Drug program. However after last year they put us into an Advantage Plan. Now the costs charged to Medicare is unavailable. They bill Medicare and I have no idea what they bill them for and how much. Medicare just says contact them for details. The advantage plan provides nothing about who paid what. You get what the Doctor charged, what the plan paid, and what you may owe. NO room for fraud there.

[rustyp]

So what is the real premium for Medicare? Total cost? I understand based on income you pay a different premium but what is the Total Premium?

For majority of seniors in 2018 will be $134/mo. You are correct it is tied to income. Easy enough to look up.

[rsetterlund]

I know there are many opinions both ways on single payer healthcare. Some talk about competition working, well with all the merging of health insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, and drug stores where is the competition coming from? We are rapidly moving to a single payer system, just a privately run one. I would like to know how much money would be saved if we got rid of all the huge corporations and their corporate staff that are in healthcare insurance companies? I believe we should have a two-tiered system where everyone pays a nominal fee and is covered for catastrophic illnesses with a second tier for those that are willing to pay more and have a higher level of coverage. Today if you are sick you go to the ER, tell them you do not have insurance and they help you with all of us paying the costs. The two-tiered system should be a single payer run by a government-owned private corporation like the Federal Reserve Banking System. That system is self-governing, has plenty of oversight, and is not controlled by the Federal government. Right now the drug and insurance companies set the prices and we just have to pay.

[Barefoot]

My sister, when she broke her hip, was in a ward where she was the only female, and her 7 roommates were male. She lives in Canada. Her doctor refused to prescribe sleeping pills for her because he was afraid he would get into trouble.
From a Canadian ...
I love our health care system and have had no problems at all finding a doctor or seeing a doctor.
I've received the very best health care including two knee replacements.

[Madelaine Amee]

From a Canadian ...
I love our health care system and have had no problems at all finding a doctor or seeing a doctor.
I've received the very best health care including two knee replacements.

My brother lived in Canada and had the very best health care with no problems. He passed from a gioblstoma brain tumor and had the finest care and hospice care before he passed.

If you have never lived in Canada and needed health care you have no right to put the health care down.

Every month I get a shot in the eye for wet macular - I have just returned from a Christmas cruise where I was fortunate to meet one of the foremost Retina specialists in Canada, he is just across the border from Detroit. I have the best insurance you can buy and yet my eye shot is Avastin at $50 a shot, the Canadian specialist uses Lucentis which costs $1,800 per shot and the Canadian Govt. allows it under their health care!

It is one of my pet peeves that people sound off about something they know nothing about.

[golfing eagles]

I know there are many opinions both ways on single payer healthcare. Some talk about competition working, well with all the merging of health insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, and drug stores where is the competition coming from? We are rapidly moving to a single payer system, just a privately run one. I would like to know how much money would be saved if we got rid of all the huge corporations and their corporate staff that are in healthcare insurance companies? I believe we should have a two-tiered system where everyone pays a nominal fee and is covered for catastrophic illnesses with a second tier for those that are willing to pay more and have a higher level of coverage. Today if you are sick you go to the ER, tell them you do not have insurance and they help you with all of us paying the costs. The two-tiered system should be a single payer run by a government-owned private corporation like the Federal Reserve Banking System. That system is self-governing, has plenty of oversight, and is not controlled by the Federal government. Right now the drug and insurance companies set the prices and we just have to pay.

And replace it with a huge government bureaucracy? Basically figure on triple the administrative costs.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Seems to be working well in the UK.

Badly strained UK hospitals to delay non-urgent procedures (https://www.yahoo.com/news/badly-strained-uk-hospitals-delay-non-urgent-procedures-102502267.html)

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

My brother lived in Canada and had the very best health care with no problems. He passed from a gioblstoma brain tumor and had the finest care and hospice care before he passed.

If you have never lived in Canada and needed health care you have no right to put the health care down.

Every month I get a shot in the eye for wet macular - I have just returned from a Christmas cruise where I was fortunate to meet one of the foremost Retina specialists in Canada, he is just across the border from Detroit. I have the best insurance you can buy and yet my eye shot is Avastin at $50 a shot, the Canadian specialist uses Lucentis which costs $1,800 per shot and the Canadian Govt. allows it under their health care!

It is one of my pet peeves that people sound off about something they know nothing about.

I have a good friend that moved here from Canada and became a citizen because he couldn't get the treatment he needed.

[rustyp]

From a Canadian ...
I love our health care system and have had no problems at all finding a doctor or seeing a doctor.
I've received the very best health care including two knee replacements.

To all of us that have been propagandized this testimonial is exactly what I am used to. I lived on the Canadian border most of my life with many Canadian friends. They do not complain about their health care system. Matter of fact they are quite proud of it. Sure there are instances when they seek other alternatives - just like us going to Schantz.

[Steve9930]

For majority of seniors in 2018 will be $134/mo. You are correct it is tied to income. Easy enough to look up.

Yes, this is the individual cost. But what is the total premium? How much is the Government paying or are expenses accrued just covered out of funds provided by Congress? For example my policy from my employer had a premium of $1200 per month. The employee paid 20% and the company paid 80% of the premium.

[Steve9930]

From a Canadian ...
I love our health care system and have had no problems at all finding a doctor or seeing a doctor.
I've received the very best health care including two knee replacements.

Couple of questions:

Total Canadian Population vs US Population?
Average Taxes paid on income? Say $100,000 income.

[Barefoot]

Couple of questions:

Total Canadian Population vs US Population?
Average Taxes paid on income? Say $100,000 income.
To put it in perspective, Canada has less population than the state of California!
Our health-care system was initiated slowly and carefully, starting in 1947.
Never mind income tax which is huge, we pay many taxes on everything we buy.
We are amazed at the low cost of food and wine and hydro and eating out in Florida.
Still, in spite of our high taxes which are necessary to carry the health-care system, I'm glad we have it.

[Steve9930]

To put it in perspective, Canada has less population than the state of California!
Our health-care system was initiated slowly and carefully, starting in 1947.
Never mind income tax which is huge, we pay many taxes on everything we buy.
We are amazed at the low cost of food and wine and hydro and eating out in Florida.
Still, in spite of our high taxes which are necessary to carry the health-care system, I'm glad we have it.

I guess that brings us to the first question that needs to be answered: Are US Citizens willing to pay the $$$ necessary to have a single payer centrally run Health Care System? Everything is possible its the price that is in question. I personally have never had a problem with my US Health Care. It works.

[Barefoot]

I guess that brings us to the first question that needs to be answered: Are US Citizens willing to pay the $$$ necessary to have a single payer centrally run Health Care System?
Exactly. I sincerely doubt that most US citizens would agree to huge tax increases.
And of course that is pure speculation, perhaps they would.

[Steve9930]

Exactly. I sincerely doubt that most US citizens would agree to huge tax increases.
And of course that is pure speculation, perhaps they would.

I guess other questions that need to be answered: Do you believe everyone is entitled to Health Insurance or Health Care? And if so, who do you believe should provide it? Or is this something you have to provide through your achievements? Who is responsible for the quality of your life?

[Madelaine Amee]

I have a good friend that moved here from Canada and became a citizen because he couldn't get the treatment he needed.

Dr. Boogie, back up your statement please. When did he legally get into the USA and what was the problem he needed treatment for that he could not get in Canada?

It takes "an act of God" to get a Canadian into the USA legally now -

[Madelaine Amee]

I guess other questions that need to be answered: Do you believe everyone is entitled to Health Insurance or Health Care? And if so, who do you believe should provide it? Or is this something you have to provide through your achievements? Who is responsible for the quality of your life?

I will reverse your questions on you :

What do we do with people who are absolutely unable to take care of themselves? They had work houses in England back in the 1800s. Germany had gas chambers. The third world countries manage to leave their indigents dying in the road ............ Seriously, if you make a statement like yours you HAVE to have an acceptable answer.

This country of ours is a GREAT country built on Christian principles. We built this country on the backs of people who were expendable in their own countries. There is sufficient money in this country to take care of people who are truly in need. Unfortunately many of the richest people in this country would rather fund political parties than put their money to good use helping those less fortunate.

In my opinion, which is worth probably nothing, it comes down to lack of care for our fellow man who is less fortunate. Thank goodness for the Salvation Army and other such groups that do their Christian best to take care of people in need.

[ColdNoMore]

I will reverse your questions on you :

What do we do with people who are absolutely unable to take care of themselves? They had work houses in England back in the 1800s. Germany had gas chambers. The third world countries manage to leave their indigents dying in the road ............ Seriously, if you make a statement like yours you HAVE to have an acceptable answer.

This country of ours is a GREAT country built on Christian principles. We built this country on the backs of people who were expendable in their own countries. There is sufficient money in this country to take care of people who are truly in need. Unfortunately many of the richest people in this country would rather fund political parties than put their money to good use helping those less fortunate.

In my opinion, which is worth probably nothing, it comes down to lack of care for our fellow man who is less fortunate. Thank goodness for the Salvation Army and other such groups that do their Christian best to take care of people in need.

Nailed it!! :boom:

:BigApplause:..:BigApplause:..:BigApplause:

[ColdNoMore]

To put it in perspective, Canada has less population than the state of California!
Our health-care system was initiated slowly and carefully, starting in 1947.
Never mind income tax which is huge, we pay many taxes on everything we buy.
We are amazed at the low cost of food and wine and hydro and eating out in Florida.
Still, in spite of our high taxes which are necessary to carry the health-care system, I'm glad we have it.


While there will always be those anecdotal stories of... "I have a friend from Canada who had problems with Canadian health care"...of the thousands of Canadians I have known or talked to in my life, the overwhelming majority (just a guess, but probably around 80%)...feel the exact same way as yourself. :thumbup:


My observations seem to be backed up by actual facts.

Change of Subject: Never mind the anecdotes: Do Canadians like their health-care system? (http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists_ezorn/2009/08/never-mind-the-anecdotes-do-canadians-like-their-health-care-system.html)

By an overwhelming margin, Canadians prefer the Canadian health care system to the American one. Overall, 82% said they preferred the Canadian system, fully ten times the number who said the American system is superior (8%)....from a Harris-Decima poll (.pdf), July 2009. .

The vast majority of Canadians, 91 per cent, felt that Canada's health care system was better than the United States...CTV, a Canadian television network, Jun. 29 2008, reporting on a survey, conducted by the Strategic Counsel for CTV and The Globe and Mail.

In November 2004, Canadians voted Tommy Douglas, Canada's 'father of Medicare'") the Greatest Canadian of all time following a nationwide contest."... CBC

People in Canada and Great Britain are significantly more satisfied with availability of affordable healthcare than their American counterparts ...Gallup Poll, March, 2003

[collie1228]

The cost of administration of the U.S. health care industry is the main reason we pay more than any other developed country and rank near or at the bottom for quality of care. Our system pays insurance companies to manage and perform as gatekeepers of care, which is a major burden to the system. Single payer would save most of this cost, but introduces a new gatekeeper, your federal government. I like to think I'm a libertarian who wants the government to leave me alone, but I have to admit, I love my Medicare Advantage plan.

[Steve9930]

I will reverse your questions on you :

What do we do with people who are absolutely unable to take care of themselves? They had work houses in England back in the 1800s. Germany had gas chambers. The third world countries manage to leave their indigents dying in the road ............ Seriously, if you make a statement like yours you HAVE to have an acceptable answer.

This country of ours is a GREAT country built on Christian principles. We built this country on the backs of people who were expendable in their own countries. There is sufficient money in this country to take care of people who are truly in need. Unfortunately many of the richest people in this country would rather fund political parties than put their money to good use helping those less fortunate.

In my opinion, which is worth probably nothing, it comes down to lack of care for our fellow man who is less fortunate. Thank goodness for the Salvation Army and other such groups that do their Christian best to take care of people in need.

Why is it when a legitimate question is raised about being responsible, people go to some extreme negative which is far outside of any human dignity today. The question is: "Who is responsible for your Life?" This nation was built on people that did not ask for a hand out. Who understood you get what you work for and no one owes you anything. Now after saying that we would not be much of a Christian based nation if we ignored those that need help, and we do not. People get Health Care when they need it, FREE. At least for them, but the rest of us pay that bill in one way or another. The questions I propose set the foundation to building a plan to fix the problem. Who is responsible for your life and how do we implement a system that drives that point, while providing a necessary service to the community?

[Steve9930]

Here are my suggestions to current system:

1) Health Insurance should be sold just like auto Insurance. No state line boundaries. Let competition loose to its fullest.
2) Tort Reform. Yes there times when Doctors and Hospital make mistakes but there should be limits.
3) Allow competition in the purchase of drugs. Buy from anywhere you get the best price and no laws to prevent it.
4) Risky behavior warrants a Higher Health Insurance Premium. You pay more for Auto Insurance if you are a bad driver. Why not more if your life style is unhealthy.
5) Limit Drug Company patents to 5 years.
6) Establish a nation wide catastrophic health Care Insurance paid for through a 1% Federal sales tax.
7) Repeal Medicare. Everyone gets their insurance on the open Market.
8) Allow corporations and small business to take the cost Health Care off the top of their taxes if they provide it for their employees.
9) Congress and the Senate have only the same choices as the general public.

[Madelaine Amee]

Why is it when a legitimate question is raised about being responsible, people go to some extreme negative which is far outside of any human dignity today. The question is: "Who is responsible for your Life?" This nation was built on people that did not ask for a hand out. Who understood you get what you work for and no one owes you anything. Now after saying that we would not be much of a Christian based nation if we ignored those that need help, and we do not. People get Health Care when they need it, FREE. At least for them, but the rest of us pay that bill in one way or another. The questions I propose set the foundation to building a plan to fix the problem. Who is responsible for your life and how do we implement a system that drives that point, while providing a necessary service to the community?

Your reply gives me reason to believe that you are indeed a humanitarian. However I cannot agree with the sentence "Who is responsible for your Life?". I am of the opinion that there are huge numbers of people who have no understanding of what this means, either because they do not have the mental capacity or for a myriad of other reasons both mental and sociological.

I personally am in favor of the old fashioned idea of group homes where a person of diminished capacity could get a safe bed and a meal for a night and go out to get a day's labor the next day. Social programs seem to be fast disappearing, probably due to lack of money. When I look back on my life I think of all the programs that were available to help the REAL needy that are no longer funded. We had far less available money then and we seemed to do so much more with it.

[ColdNoMore]

I don't buy this approach. People who are without health care are not lazy, and neither of these statements have anything to do with patriotism. Health Care is not a right as some seem to believe. Its a service based out of compassion for others. Fortunately we have come along way in Medicine from the country Doctor who's main business was setting bones and delivering babies. There are always those in society who will need financial assistance. There are those who will always take advantage and scam the system, its a fact of life. This should not deter us from providing Health Care to as many as possible, at the lowest cost, at the best efficiency. You also will not accomplish this through legislation only. Also demonizing groups of people because they are or poor will never lead to a solution.

You've completely missed the crux of my post(s). :oops:

It SHOULD be a right of American citizens...just like it is in all other first world countries.

I also appreciate you proving my point...about there being primarily two views on it. :ho:

[Steve9930]

You've completely missed the crux of my post(s). :oops:

It SHOULD be a right of American citizens...just like it is in all other first world countries.

I also appreciate you proving my point...about there being primarily two views on it. :ho:

Please read the constitution. Rights are given by God not Government. Rights cannot be denied by Government. There is no right to Health Care. Now is it a service society cares to provide? This is the debate. That right thing is not understood.

[Steve9930]

Your reply gives me reason to believe that you are indeed a humanitarian. However I cannot agree with the sentence "Who is responsible for your Life?". I am of the opinion that there are huge numbers of people who have no understanding of what this means, either because they do not have the mental capacity or for a myriad of other reasons both mental and sociological.

I personally am in favor of the old fashioned idea of group homes where a person of diminished capacity could get a safe bed and a meal for a night and go out to get a day's labor the next day. Social programs seem to be fast disappearing, probably due to lack of money. When I look back on my life I think of all the programs that were available to help the REAL needy that are no longer funded. We had far less available money then and we seemed to do so much more with it.

There is a larger problem and what you are seeing is the problem manifesting itself in different ways. Lack of services, increased abortions of convenience, violence, corruption in Business and Government, we versus they, greed, etc. We as a nation are turning from a bible based society to a secular based society.

[ColdNoMore]

Please read the constitution.
I have...many times.


Rights are given by God not Government.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

There sure is a huge discrepancy between religions however...of what those 'God given rights' constitute.



Rights cannot be denied by Government.
You really believe that?

Then why were the "rights" of this country only originally given to those...who were white males?




There is no right to Health Care.

Yet, just like the changes made to the COTUS due to the original mistakes/omissions mentioned above...Health Care to American citizens SHOULD be a 'right.'



Now is it a service society cares to provide? This is the debate. That right thing is not understood.
I wholly disagree.

The 'right thing to do' is patently obvious...to those of us who care about the health of our fellow American citizens.

[JoMar]

Let the pontification continue :)

[Steve9930]

I have...many times.




You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

There sure is a huge discrepancy between religions however...of what those 'God given rights' constitute.




You really believe that?

Then why were the "rights" of this country only originally given to those...who were white males?






Yet, just like the changes made to the COTUS due to the original mistakes/omissions mentioned above...Health Care to American citizens SHOULD be a 'right.'




I wholly disagree.

The 'right thing to do' is patently obvious...to those of us who care about the health of our fellow American citizens.

You may have read the constitution but you did not get the points it makes. Rights in the constitution are not granted, they are stated. Governments do not grant rights. The constitution is one of the most profound documents I have ever read. It no doubt had the Almighty guiding these people. Health Care is not a right, its a service.

[Barefoot]

Dr. Boogie, back up your statement please. When did he legally get into the USA and what was the problem he needed treatment for that he could not get in Canada?
It takes "an act of God" to get a Canadian into the USA legally now -
I was wondering myself about Dr, Boogie's post.
You are right about Canadians not being able to easily "become legal".
We would love to get dual citizenship, but there is no such thing as a Retiree Visa.
We'd love to stay longer than we do, however the US Government limits us to 182 days.
Having said that, we feel blessed, grateful and privileged to spend six months each year in The Villages. :ho:
For those who are wondering, we buy emergency travel insurance to cover us for six months when we're in the US.
And we try to "save" any procedures for our six months in Canada.

[Steve9930]

I was wondering myself about Dr, Boogie's post.
You are right about Canadians not being able to easily "become legal".
We would love to get dual citizenship, but there is no such thing as a Retiree Visa.
We'd love to stay longer than we do, however the US Government limits us to 182 days.
Having said that, we feel blessed, grateful and privileged to spend six months each year in The Villages. :ho:
For those who are wondering, we buy emergency travel insurance to cover us for six months when we're in the US.
And we try to "save" any procedures for our six months in Canada.

We are glad you come to visit. You are always welcome. I used to vacation up around Rice Lake. Loved the fishing there. Don't blame you at all for wanting to get out of the cold. I don't understand the 182 day maximum either.

[TheWarriors]

While we all have compassion for the less fortunate, what will the result be if the government guarantees everything for everyone. The word “incentive” will no longer exist and neither will our prosperous country. After all why stop at health insurance, shouldn’t we all have the same rights to automobiles, restaurants, homes, inheritances, golf courses, concert tickets, and golf courses. This is the greatest country in the world because you can start with nothing and become a billionaire, although I personally believe as you achieve success you should provide a hand up for those that need it.

[Steve9930]

While we all have compassion for the less fortunate, what will the result be if the government guarantees everything for everyone. The word “incentive” will no longer exist and neither will our prosperous country. After all why stop at health insurance, shouldn’t we all have the same rights to automobiles, restaurants, homes, inheritances, golf courses, concert tickets, and golf courses. This is the greatest country in the world because you can start with nothing and become a billionaire, although I personally believe as you achieve success you should provide a hand up for those that need it.

I think that was well said. Sometimes the compassion we show makes the problem worse. The question has always been: How to solve the problem while still maintaining the incentive to do better? Its human nature to take the path of least resistance. If its more lucrative not to strive for achieving your independence then who will be independent? Bottom line, life's not fair, get over it! Now get to work and try harder.

[justjim]

From a Canadian ...
I love our health care system and have had no problems at all finding a doctor or seeing a doctor.
I've received the very best health care including two knee replacements.

Read all the posts but kept coming back to Barefoot’s who has really “hands on experience” with the Canadian health care system. In addition, I too have talked with several Canadian’s and they all speak highly of their medical care.

Medicare is a hybrid single payer health care program and even though it has its issues and problems seems to work pretty well for those of us age 65 and older.

Our health care system is complicated and costs millions more than it should. “Too many hands trying to get a piece of the pie” thus driving the costs higher and higher. Changes clearly need to be made and time will tell if a hybrid single payer system will emerge for those under 65 years of age.

[retiredguy123]

I will reverse your questions on you :

What do we do with people who are absolutely unable to take care of themselves? They had work houses in England back in the 1800s. Germany had gas chambers. The third world countries manage to leave their indigents dying in the road ............ Seriously, if you make a statement like yours you HAVE to have an acceptable answer.

This country of ours is a GREAT country built on Christian principles. We built this country on the backs of people who were expendable in their own countries. There is sufficient money in this country to take care of people who are truly in need. Unfortunately many of the richest people in this country would rather fund political parties than put their money to good use helping those less fortunate.

In my opinion, which is worth probably nothing, it comes down to lack of care for our fellow man who is less fortunate. Thank goodness for the Salvation Army and other such groups that do their Christian best to take care of people in need.
The problem I have with your post is where you say there is sufficient money to take care of people. Our country is deeply in debt because we have borrowed and wasted too much money. Eventually, the country will become non-functional when people stop buyng our bonds. Most people just do not understand the amount of debt we have and the future consequences. Single payer health care would be a disaster to the debt.

[Biker Dog]

The problem I have with your post is where you say there is sufficient money to take care of people. Our country is deeply in debt because we have borrowed and wasted too much money. Eventually, the country will become non-functional when people stop buyng our bonds. Most people just do not understand the amount of debt we have and the future consequences. Single payer health care would be a disaster to the debt.

:agree:

[Tom2172]

Single payer only comes close to working with small non diverse populations. The US pooulitaion is very large at 400 million plus, very diverse and extremely politically divided into many groups that agree on very little. Both Canada, Great Britain have single payer it’s a bloated, inefficient bureaucracy where no one cares since there is no incentive to care. It’s the government no one can be fired. Without profit or competition there is no reason for single payer to be competitive, effective, efficient or responsive to the needs of patients. it’s the government they answer to know one!
The VA is close to single payer, it doesn’t work, it’s inefiecent, because that’s what a bureaucracy is. Patients have been locked up in VA clinics because at 4 PM all the employee bolt for the door because it’s closing time, there is no inceintive to stay or see every patient. So occasionally patients are locked up when they close the doors on the building at 4PM.