The latest Health Care Reform....subsidizes abortion...

[Guest]

believe what ever your preference on this subject. But what should be crystal clear is for those who think the decision is in the hands of the mother....so be it....some think otherwise.

What is also crystal clear...if they truly believe abortion is a mother's choice then why do the same proponents think it is OK to charge EVERYBODY an abortion fee included in the public option? The bill is full of stuff that does not belong in it....and now includes adding insult to injury by making the government plan include that all participants must contribute to the abortion fund.

Are the congressional leaders that stupid? Dumb? Ambivilent? Don't give a :cus:?

Let's see how long we the people just stand there and take it.

Absolutely off the wall.....do what ever the :cus: they want law makers.

Somebody just try to convince me with real facts why the government should take upon it's responsibilities to provide funding for abortion?
Hey baby no need to worry about birth control we get it fixed for free now.....barfbarf


btk

btk

[Guest]

I still believe they are on a kamikaze mission. They don't care if they go down in election flames as long as they can grab as much freedom on impact as possible.

[Guest]

We are screwed ! Said from the beginning...the perfect storm...this President and this congress and you cannot stop them !

We have been conned and lied to since the beginning of the campaign !

From the "stimulus" bill filled with pork that our President said would never happen and was 70% stored up social programs unread before passing to this monster. It is building up....and the pretty words cannot change what is happening !

In addition to this stuff, today we hear about the jobs created fiasco....creations in districts that dont exist. I understand errors as they do happen in every administration, but this administration has got to stop playing politics at each and every turn !

[Guest]

Hey baby no need to worry about birth control we get it fixed for free now.....barfbarf


If that's what you think the attitude is, well quite frankly I find your generalizations disgusting and reprehensible.

There are three women I've kown personally very well who have had abortions at one point in their lives. I've know many others to a lesser degree that have had abortions.

If you think it's just a carefree decision, you're looking at the wrong gender. Not many men take it with such a cavalier attitude but I've met them. Not so with the women.

Ask them why the insurance companies won't pay for birth control. Would you support the 'public option' paying for birth control?

In addition, everything I've read says the "public option" has a few options - and one of them is abortion coverage. You don't want to pay for it in your premium? You don't have to. ...but if you have private insurance, perhaps through your employer, do you know whether you're already subsidizing it?

If this has changed, I'm open to being told differently.

And just so you know where I'm coming from on this.. I was adopted. I do support a woman's right to choose, but with limits - if you waited 8 months and changed your mind - sorry, you missed the window. I've been on my hands and knees scrubbing the blood of a miscarriage off the floor - from a very much WANTED pregnancy. And I've anguished over the decision years earlier to abort a pregnancy when we found out that my wife was pregnant due to birth control failure and we'd had complete pelvic and back x-rays since we both started seeing a chiropractor. The risk factors from the radiation THAT early on (like around 1 week) along with other factors made for a VERY difficult decision. I've been married twice and have two daughters, 22 and 17. I don't fit anyone's radical pigeonhole. (Like when someone told me years ago that I couldn't be a parent and pro-choice at the same time). And, for what it's worth, my opinions on this have changed over the years. I try to keep an open mind.

[Guest]

There was a summary of what the new reform bill contains and it did very specifically state in the government provided version there would be a premium that will go towards a fund set aside for abortions. In addition there were also select non government offered plan to meet certain criteria had to also provide the "...abortion premium...", in order to participate.

My opening comments on the thread were to each his/her own.

For those in support of the abortion premium, don't you think those mothers who decide to go to full term should be allowed their fair share of that same pool of money? If not would that not further emphasize the governments sponsorship of abortion?
No matter how it is painted it is not right for the government to take the arbitrary position it has.

I am sure as negotiations go, this is the kind of stuff that is jammed in the bill to provide take aways when it comes time to put and take.

With the negative future impact of the bill I would think most warm blooded Americans would demand the health care reform be rejected. It is a sham. For example $200 billion being put in to cover the shortfall of payments to doctors in the cost reduction of Medicare. Let me see, let's reduce cost on this side and oh by the way let's call it something else and add it back on the other side.

Shameful, obvious payola of another special interest group being paid it's due for paying homage to the WH puppeteering squad.

The entire bill is a joke in the face of the American people. Absolutely disgusting.

It is nick named the "bend over bill".

btk

[Guest]

Wait a minute. I have to be misunderstanding you.

You talked about the 'abortion premium'. Now, according to my local paper today, Rep. Hodes (D-NH) is going to argue AGAINST an ammendment that was already in the House bill that PROHIBITED paying for abortions - so it seems the prohibition is there.

But putting that aside for a moment..

You want women who take their pregnancies to term to have access to the 'abortion premium'. Are you saying the entire premium pool or just the part that IS the 'premium' - meaning if the normal plan is $X and the abortion premium plan is $Y that would be the $Y - $X amount?

Either way I think what matters is which plan the person is subscribed to.

But you also say you don't want abortions paid for out of the 'regular' pool.

It's not a 'sponsorship' of abortion to say there are two groups. But here's the part that will make your blood boil. I'd venture a guess that the abortion plan will be cheaper than the non-aboriton plan. Why? Because if aboriton is an *option* for someone, then a percentage of those can be reasonably expected to take that option. Back when I knew the costs of these matters, an abortion was about $300 in my area while a live birth was a MINIMUM of $5000 - and that's without complications (like my 2nd daughter had).

So, on average, it might cost LESS, overall, to cover abortions - on a strictly actuarial basis. But when you see the premiums in black and white, someone will jump to the immediate conclusion that the government is trying to force-feed abortions (which makes no sense at all - after all, government wants voters to vote for them) to the public.

Think about it - if the non-abortion plan says "to term only", that means each and every pregnancy has to go to term - and then you get into the sticky areas of things like anencephaly, Tay-Sachs, etc, and the HUGE costs that will be involved covering THOSE cases.

My 1st daughter, born in '87, cost around $5000 - no complications. Covered by insurance.

My 2nd, born in '92, cost something in excess of 6 figures - I think. We never saw the final bills. But that included 2 ambulance rides and a night in the neo-natal center of Boston Children's Hospital. I never saw all the bills. The ones I *did* see were over $50,000 - and that was because all those things were done AS A PRECAUTION. Turns out nothing serious ended up being wrong with our daughter long-term. But they never DID figure out what she was choking on about 7 hours after she was born.